Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Florian Gradwohl on November 05, 2008, 03:12:40 pm
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Hi,
I´m Florian from Austria und I plan to step in to digital Large Format Photography.
It’s quite complicated for someone how shoots DSLR only. So there are a lot of things I don’t know, like Standards (Format, Compatibility …), Different Manufacturers, Lens-quality and so on.
Maybe if I tell you what I want to do, somebody can give me advice for my first steps …
Why I´m switching to LF/MF ?
My intension is Image Quality. There is no way a Canon Fullframe Sensor can reach the Image Quality of a Digital Back. I´m really disappointed with the Quality I Produce with my 1 DsMKII and Canon L-Lenses since I saw what is possible with MF/LF.
What I want to do is buying a Mamyia/Phase One AFD III with a P45 or Leaf Aptus II 6 DB. It’s a Bundle with an 80mm Lens. That gives me the Opportunity to shoot MF too. As addition for my Landscape, Nature und architectural work I´m thinking of buying a Camera like the Linhof Tecno, Master Technika 3000 or a Cambo Wide.
First question: Leaf or Phase One ?
I cannot afford a brand new DB, so I have to stay with one of the mentioned Backs (refurbished)
Second Question: do I need Scheimpflug for Landscape work ? Because the Cambo Wide only offers shift … so it would be interesting if the Scheimpflug rule is important for Landscape and Nature. I like pictures with lots of DOF.
Lenses:
I like to shoot WA ( 16 – 35 mm on DSLR), are there Lenses available for Digital LF ? I guess yes, how can I calculate the focal length (DSLR-LF)
I´m totally confused about the different Mounting Systems and Crop-Factors … If Phase One is writing 1,1 is it 1,1 for MF and LF ? For Linhof and Cambo ?
Thanks for your Help!
Florian
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Lenses:
I like to shoot WA ( 16 – 35 mm on DSLR), are there Lenses available for Digital LF ? I guess yes, how can I calculate the focal length (DSLR-LF)
I´m totally confused about the different Mounting Systems and Crop-Factors … If Phase One is writing 1,1 is it 1,1 for MF and LF ? For Linhof and Cambo ?
We have a Focal Length Calculator (http://www.captureintegration.com/tools/our-tools/) which will let you figure out what lenses will do what.
Type in the lens you know on the platform you know. For instance you could type in 16 under "35mm (camera)" and find out that with a P45 (the platform does not matter, only the sensor size) you need a 23mm to achieve the same image.
There are 28mm lenses available on the Mamiya/Phase One body and on the Hasselblad H platform. However for maximum IQ you would want to explore technical cameras which let you use a Rodenstock or Schneider large-format-lens which will be unquestionably higher in IQ than the 28mm lenses from either Mamiya/Phase or Hasselblad. There is a 23mm, 24mm, and 28mm available for these tech cameras each of which is incredibly sharp. The 23mm and 28mm offer a large enough image circle to do meaningful within-image-circle-stitching for an even wider/higher-resolution image while the 24mm barely covers the P45 (the 24mm however is the most affordable).
More on tech cameras (http://www.captureintegration.com/solutions/wide-angle/).
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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http://www.maxmax.com/hot_rod_visible.htm (http://www.maxmax.com/hot_rod_visible.htm)
You might also consider a conversion like this which essentially modifies the ~20MP sensor to behave like a typical 20MP DB. Most(but not all) of the reason the DSLRs look like crud and the DBs don't is because of the AA filter. The lenses have something to do with it as well, but at 20MP, it's fairly hard to tell the differences between a modified DSLR and the MF setup.(note - 20MP is much closer to 645 quality if you scanned film)
What's your budget?
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I would think it would need to be something like at least $30k USD. the bundle will be 15-20, then the field camera plus adapters, etc, etc...
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First question: Leaf or Phase One ?
I cannot afford a brand new DB, so I have to stay with one of the mentioned Backs (refurbished)
I would recommend you take a look at the Sinar eMotion54. The price has just been dropped to €6000 (new) and Sinar is the only back that comes standard with a 3yr warranty. It also uses a mount adapter system (unlike Phase and Leaf) so you can use the same back on different cameras after just 2 minutes spent changing the adapter.
Lenses:
I like to shoot WA ( 16 – 35 mm on DSLR), are there Lenses available for Digital LF ?
Yes, look at the Rodenstock HR lenses for example. The new 23mm lens is the widest and is equivalent to 18mm on Canon.
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Dear Florian,
Yes, IMO tilts (and sometimes swings) and Scheimpflug sharpness plane adjustments are needed when shooting landscapes or architecture.
In this respect, you may want to have a look also to the new Sinar arTec introduced recently. The newly designed view camera does feature V and H shifts, but as well tilt and swing possibility, together with having a ground-glass for precise composing and adjusting. A detailed description can be found here:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....65&hl=artec (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26265&hl=artec)
The corresponding brochure can be found on our homepage (www.sinarcameras.com) or here:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....01&hl=artec (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27701&hl=artec)
Best regards,
Thierry
That gives me the Opportunity to shoot MF too. As addition for my Landscape, Nature und architectural work I´m thinking of buying a Camera like the Linhof Tecno, Master Technika 3000 or a Cambo Wide.
Lenses:
I like to shoot WA ( 16 – 35 mm on DSLR), are there Lenses available for Digital LF ? I guess yes, how can I calculate the focal length (DSLR-LF)
I´m totally confused about the different Mounting Systems and Crop-Factors … If Phase One is writing 1,1 is it 1,1 for MF and LF ? For Linhof and Cambo ?
Thanks for your Help!
Florian
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Thank´s all of you for your comments!
@ dougpeterson:
Thanks for that calculator.
The Platform does not matter only with MF or also with LF ?
I thought the distance between Lens an Sensor is important and different on many Platforms ?
(Cropfactor)
I´ve seen the 23mm at Photokina, it´s a beautiful lens (and expensive …)
@ Plekto:
Thanks for the Information, but I doubt that the Quality is much better an can reach the IQ of MF.
My Budget for the MF System is about €12.000,-
@ foto-z:
I have not seen a Sinar Back live, but what I´ve seen so far they don’t have Displays ???
How is the IQ compared to Phase an Leaf ?
Do you know what Sensor they are using ?
By the Way: are there other Manufacturers than Kodak and Dalsa for DB´s ?
Are there big differences between them ?
@thsinar
I´ve seen the arTec at Photokina, it’s nice but too expensive for me …
I like the Linhof Tecno, but I don’t know the Price for a complete LF – equipment
What else do I need (besides Lenses) to go out in the field and how are the Prices …?
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@ foto-z:
I have not seen a Sinar Back live, but what I´ve seen so far they don’t have Displays ???
The eMotion series and eSprit series all have LCD screens.
How is the IQ compared to Phase an Leaf ?
All the backs have very similar quality. Much bigger differences are features, warranty, and the cameras they can be matched with.
Do you know what Sensor they are using ?
A mixture of Kodak and Dalsa.
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I like the Linhof Tecno, but I don’t know the Price for a complete LF – equipment
What else do I need (besides Lenses) to go out in the field and how are the Prices …?
The Techno is rumored to be around 4000 Euro. You might want a sliding back, in addition. If you buy the arTec, the sliding back is free
The Sinar eVolution and the older backs like the 54 series, and the Jenoptik Precision series do not have a display.
Cheers,
Kumar
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The 23mm and 28mm offer a large enough image circle to do meaningful within-image-circle-stitching for an even wider/higher-resolution image while the 24mm barely covers the P45 (the 24mm however is the most affordable).
More on tech cameras (http://www.captureintegration.com/solutions/wide-angle/).
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
I did some quick searching on this topic on google, didn't turn up anything. Are there any tutorials, books, etc. on stitching within the image circle.
Thanks!
Justin
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All the backs have very similar quality. Much bigger differences are features, warranty, and the cameras they can be matched with.
I´ve seen some long- exposure pictures of a leaf Back, it was pretty noise and full of dead pixels …
(Don’t know the Exposure-time, but I guess 30 or 60 sec. Was a shoot in a twilight situation …
The Software reduced most of the dead Pixels, but the noise was still there
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@thsinar
I´ve seen the arTec at Photokina, it’s nice but too expensive for me …
I like the Linhof Tecno, but I don’t know the Price for a complete LF – equipment
What else do I need (besides Lenses) to go out in the field and how are the Prices …?
Dear Florian,
The Sinar arTec seems more expensive but has ALL features included:
- V & H shifts
- Tild AND Swing
- Sliding Back with ground glass for precise composing and focusing
- rotating base mechanism for panoramic views
- helicoidal focus lenses: precisely adjusted to infinity
- etc ...
If you wish a camera with these features you my end up at least at the same price, probably higher.
best regards,
Thierry
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All the backs have very similar quality. Much bigger differences are features, warranty, and the cameras they can be matched with.
I´ve seen some long- exposure pictures of a leaf Back, it was pretty noise and full of dead pixels …
(Don’t know the Exposure-time, but I guess 30 or 60 sec. Was a shoot in a twilight situation …
The Software reduced most of the dead Pixels, but the noise was still there
The Phase P25, P30 and P45 Plus backs will go up to 1 hour exposures if that is what you are after. One way to eliminate some of your choices is to also decide if important to you is if you want leaf shutters or focal planes shutters. Focal plane camera's would be the Mamiya/Phase bodies and also the Contax 645. Leaf Shutter bodies would be Hassy H series and the Hy6. On the backs you can pretty much mix and match body and backs with some limitations of course . Hassy Back you can't put on a Mamiya body for instance. Phase backs will go on almost all the bodies except the Hy6 for example. Let me add these are some of the popular bodies that I mentioned, Hassy has some others as well that work in digital. Here again one must do your research and figure out what back /body setup you are after. As far as used /demo's there out there in almost any brand you finally decide on. Do not forget software and customer service as part of you purchasing decision both very important and i would not buy any of them without good customer service in your country /area or software that works in favor of your workflow and does a great job on your files. Good luck
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The Phase P25, P30 and P45 Plus backs will go up to 1 hour exposures if that is what you are after. One way to eliminate some of your choices is to also decide if important to you is if you want leaf shutters or focal planes shutters. Focal plane camera's would be the Mamiya/Phase bodies and also the Contax 645. Leaf Shutter bodies would be Hassy H series and the Hy6. On the backs you can pretty much mix and match body and backs with some limitations of course . Hassy Back you can't put on a Mamiya body for instance. Phase backs will go on almost all the bodies except the Hy6 for example. Let me add these are some of the popular bodies that I mentioned, Hassy has some others as well that work in digital. Here again one must do your research and figure out what back /body setup you are after. As far as used /demo's there out there in almost any brand you finally decide on. Do not forget software and customer service as part of you purchasing decision both very important and i would not buy any of them without good customer service in your country /area or software that works in favor of your workflow and does a great job on your files. Good luck
Thanks Guy.
Does anybody know if there are special "Things" I should have in mind with using DB´s on LF Cameras (Shifting, Tilting, ...) ?
This would influence my decision ...
Thank you
Florian
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First you should avoid any back with micro lenses since T/S will give you color shift issues. The Three backs that stand out right away are the P30 plus, HD31 and the new Sinar espirit 65 . These all use the Kodak sensor that has micro lenses. Dalsa sensors do not use micro lenses just the Kodak one in the backs above do. So Phase backs that you should look at are the P25,P45 and the new P65. Hassy there P39 and there new ones also. Leaf backs all of them are okay and Sinars just the 65 avoid since it has micro lenses but the others do not. Also pick a back that certainly can be used easily on a tech camera Alpa, Cambo, Horseman, Silvestri, Sinar A3 or whatever it is called, You also mentioned Linhof. Most of these camera's can take any back with the correct adapter. This just narrowed some of your backs down which is exactly what you want to do and go through the process of elimination. Again you are in Austria look around for dealers that will support whatever back you chose. For instance if there is no Hassy than eliminate that, that was just a example but the key point is you go down who is there in your area to handle you quickly and the issue you have or just calling a dealer on a software issue. This stuff is just as important in my mind than the hardware itself. More questions to ask yourself do you need a high sync speed than get a leaf system . If you need higher shutter speeds than focal plane is what you want. This will eliminate certain brands right away from your choices. I went focal plane and went Phase all the way but that is me and my needs but very happy I did but I did the same thing just eliminate brands and types of systems right off the bat. Software also is very important. Say you hate leaf capture than you obviously would not want there back just another example . The keys to picking a system are really quite simple. Once you start identifying what your needs are than it becomes a lot easier. Agree it is a daunting task but know what you want and that becomes the key to it all. Just some things to think about
Leaf or focal plane
Body style
Finders
lenses
compatibility
battery
warranty
service
software
dealer network
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Florian
If long exposures (longer than 20-30 seconds) are a regular requirement for you then,from my experience,
you are going to be very frustrated with the results with most backs using Dalsa sensors.
Different brands use different software approaches to extend shooting times and some are more successful at this
than others.
As an example,Phase and Hasselblad both use (apart from the new P65+) Kodak sensors.
Phase can get very useable exposures approaching 1 hour while Blad users seem to hit the wall around 32 seconds.
I believe Phase has adopted a Dalsa sensor in their forthcoming P65+ and,if I recall discussions from this forum on the subject,
exposure times are currently limited to the 30 second range
Mark
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First you should avoid any back with micro lenses since T/S will give you color shift issues.
It should also be noted that you will also get color cast issues with back not equipped with microlenses when
using a solution that requires tilt and/or shift.
Each system has their own routines for correcting this cast with their software.
Most involve capturing an additional exposure with an opaque plexi-type surface placed over the lens.
This file is then analyzed by manufacturers software and is used to calculate,and apply, a 'negative' cast
to the files that need correction.
These casts are not readily correctable should one wish,for whatever reason, to process files in third party Raw converters.
Mark
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It should also be noted that you will also get color cast issues with back not equipped with microlenses when
using a solution that requires tilt and/or shift.
Each system has their own routines for correcting this cast with their software.
Most involve capturing an additional exposure with an opaque plexi-type surface placed over the lens.
This file is then analyzed by manufacturers software and is used to calculate,and apply, a 'negative' cast
to the files that need correction.
These casts are not readily correctable should one wish,for whatever reason, to process files in third party Raw converters.
Mark
the new sinar exposure 6.1 allows now to write corrected dng files in a batch workflow, similar than before brumbaer tools..
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It is called "Sinar p3", but there is also the Sinar f3 and the Sinar arTec.
Thierry
... Sinar A3 or whatever it is called ...
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Thanks,
To Sum up:
Micro lenses - not good for T/S (Kodak)
Dalsa not good for longer exposures (lets say about over 30 sec.)
So what I´m looking for is a Kodak Sensor that has no Micro Lensens ?
BUT:
Mtomalty says that also Backs without Microlenses are producing colorcasts … ? damned ...
Somebody told me that the Dalsa Sensors are better than Kodak because the Kodak backs are having a Colorcast from green to Magenta all over the Image. Is that true ?
Anyway, if I want to take long exposures, I have to stay with Kodak right?
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the sinar e75lv does a terrffic job with exposures till 30sec, there is no noise in this files at iso100. now even iso 200 is very good with 30sec exp. time.
i never came , even in the darkest interiors , in a situation where i couldnt get what i wanted with this 30 seconds. sure here helü the HR lenses, for which i can work without centerfilter or work at f 4,5 or 5,6 if nessecary.
about color casts: all sensors show them with wideangle shift lenses, at least. so i n any case its required to make a white shot before the shot, but thats not such big deal as it sounds like. the dalsa chips show less of this color casts than the kodaks, and the kodaks wo. microlenses show less than the chips with microlenses. although its possible to work with all backs, after applying these white corrections to them, image quality may degrade under certain circumstances if the shift which has to be inverted is too big. so less colorcast still is better than much.
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Hi Florian, not all the kodak sensors can support a longer exposure than 30 seconds... PhaseOne and Hasselblad have the same Kodak sensor but Hasselblad can get just 30 seconds and it's not a beauty... If you need a technical camera you are going to pay much money... perhaps you want to buy the shneider digitar 24mm that needs a central ND filter for the light falloff, you loose around 2 stops... if you like panfocus you need at least F 11, if you are using a digital back without microlenses (and you need a back without microlenses with a technical camera) you use 50 iso 9 times over 10 times... So you are going to use 1 or 2 mitues exposure a lot of times. I think the best choise for you it's the PhaseOne P45 refurbished (if you can find one). Don't think about the P25 ref. because it's limited at 30 seconds...(of course all the P+ backs support long exposures) The P45 it's very good, now it's very cheap, and it's very usefull in a lot of situation... Did I mention that I am going to buy one?
Of course the best thiong you can do is to try all the back you can afford with your budget and then take the one that's best for you
Bye bye
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Hi Florian, not all the kodak sensors can support a longer exposure than 30 seconds... PhaseOne and Hasselblad have the same Kodak sensor but Hasselblad can get just 30 seconds and it's not a beauty... If you need a technical camera you are going to pay much money... perhaps you want to buy the shneider digitar 24mm that needs a central ND filter for the light falloff, you loose around 2 stops... if you like panfocus you need at least F 11, if you are using a digital back without microlenses (and you need a back without microlenses with a technical camera) you use 50 iso 9 times over 10 times... So you are going to use 1 or 2 mitues exposure a lot of times. I think the best choise for you it's the PhaseOne P45 refurbished (if you can find one). Don't think about the P25 ref. because it's limited at 30 seconds...(of course all the P+ backs support long exposures) The P45 it's very good, now it's very cheap, and it's very usefull in a lot of situation... Did I mention that I am going to buy one?
Of course the best thiong you can do is to try all the back you can afford with your budget and then take the one that's best for you
Bye bye
i`d vote for the emotion75, where base iso is 100, together with HR lenses.
or,- really cheap now- the e54lv. after my opinion 22mp is for most sizes plenty enough resolution.
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The new Aptus/Sinar AF10 will go to 1 minute and uses a Dalsa Sensor.
The PhaseOne P65 goes to 1 minute as well and also uses a Dalsa sensor.
Dalsa sensors will give you a more film like look,however this could be a personal view only.
Regards,
Willem.
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@ Plekto:
Thanks for the Information, but I doubt that the Quality is much better an can reach the IQ of MF.
My Budget for the MF System is about €12.000,-
Well, given the low price for the mod if you already have a full frame DSLR, it is at least worth checking out or asking when/if they can do it. They don't list it on their site - only the 5D, so this might be special order or maybe just not available right now. They don't have a feedback forum that I can see.
For 12K Euros, you're looking at 20MP or so, which is why I brought this up. *Maybe* you can find a 30MP DB used, but then there's the body, the lenses... DBs do look nice, but the reality is that MF film is closer to 60MP if you scanned it even at a normal 2400DPI and factored in that the film has no Bayer or similar pattern creating interpolation losses. Those do exist, but gosh, they are stupidly expensive.
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=29097 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29097)
This is a reasonable price and the DB *used* is almost all of your budget. Ouch. A ~20MP full frame Canon and a 20MP DB are just not enough different, IMO, to warrant the price difference, so ~30MP DBs are almost a requirement now to make such a large expenditure worthwhile. 15-20K Euros might be possible, used, but certainly not new.
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/t...dangerousl.html (http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2007/10/live-dangerousl.html)
It's a noticeable difference in sharpness.
http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml (http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml)
Look at the Phase One P25 vs the Canon Mk2. Even at 16MP vs 22MP, it's like seeing double, or nearly so.(the difference in sharpness is 100% due to the AA filter on the Canon) Most people agree though, that even with the AA filter on it, the P25 and the Mk3(new model) are a near tossup as to which one is better. (though neither are a P45, of course, which is where you should aim, IMO, if you *REALLY* want a DB)
A used Mkiii setup would probably not cost half or a third of your budget.
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Hi Florian,
we are at the beginning of a worldwide recession. I would recommend you keep your powder dry (save the cash) and get started with film. Try a roll film back like Linhof's Super rolles which often sell on www.ebay.de for less than EUR 100. Or 4x5 sheet film.
I just posted some LF newbie questions myself. But my 2 cents would be
not to use a single focus WA lens. Take fish eyes, it will get boring. DOF is noice now and then but even a tele can be useful in landscape photography. In other words, what's your big thing with extreme wide angle lenses? One location, 2 or 3 lenses and the result will be very different. I would prefer this to having the greatest fish eye or other WA.
Q: which LF system have you chosen? would you buy the camera new? I just won an old Linhof Kardan Bi with tripod for $ 255 in the USA on eBay. If you haven't chosen a LF system yet, look what's available! Q: would hauling a big tripod with a monorail camera be a problem for you? There are field cameras.
Scheimpflug: I only used that on buildings and straight lines. In nature, I do not think of many uses. But you want extreme DOF, right? Well, go make up your mind about how heavy your equipment can be.
Again, why not get started using film? A few hundred Euros pay for a roll film back and 30 120 films like Velvia 50s or whatever you are choosing. If you like LF well, then you can invest the big bucks on some digital back.
BTW, I opted for the Fuji GX 680 and Mamiya RB 67 MF systems as Hasselblads are simply too expensive for my liking.
I started out taking photos like a madman. one day, I had to throw away thousands of junk prints and slides. That was very emotiuonal and painful. But it taught me an important lesson. Less many but better photos are preferable. quality, not quantity. And that size matters. I still have some wonderful MF and LF slides of roses. Deep colours, quality images. How do you feel about quality and quantity? Would you want to "get it right" and just take a few careful LF photos or choose auto bracketing and come home with hundreds of hastily shot images?
Take care,
Chris
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HI,
This week I’ll get the Phase One AFD III and a P45 ref. for testing. I guess the P45 should work for me. It doesn’t have microlenses, so I can use it on a technical camera as well and the exposure Time can go easily over one minute (this is what I read in some reviews). And I´ll get the Bundle of the 80mm Lens with body and DB for under €12.000, - excl. VAT. Still pretty much money for an amateur …
I think if I´m satisfied with the results I´ll buy it.
@ hs0zfe:
I don’t want to go back to film. I like the digital workflow.
I can do all the things by my own, developing and printing, BW and color. Don’t need a Lab anymore …
I haven´t choose a LF System now.
I really have too little knowledge at the moment to make a decision.
But I guess I I´m looking for something like an arTec or a Linhof Tecno or Master 3000.
As I´m doing Landscape, Nature and Architecture, my gear has to be as light as possible.
When going out with DSLR my Backpack weights about 15 -20 kg, I don’t want to carry more than that when doing LF. A Kardan is too heavy for sure.
I guess a Camera and 2 or 3 lenses is what I need. Let’s say ~ 20mm, 50mm, 80mm (in DSLR World). But I don’t know yet, I´ve to learn more about LF before I can make a decision.
All the different Systems are confusing me, shutters, Centerfilter (don’t like that by the way), and other stuff that I had not to care about when using DSLR.
And yes I prefer quality over quantity. Otherwise I would stay with DSLR. But I made a similar experience when I switched from film to digital 5 years ago. I ended up with 7000 shots from a 4 week trip through western US and none of them were really breathtaking. But this is not a question of gear, this is a question about yourself …
Florian
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http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=29067 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29067)
Sony A900 vs MF discussion.
This might also be a vastly cheaper option.
http://www.dboyd.com/Photos_08/Hasselbladv...eercan/test.htm (http://www.dboyd.com/Photos_08/HasselbladvsSony/test@150mmvsBeercan/test.htm)
Another test. Actual owner of both systems.
Quote
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Readers can draw their own conclusions about the camera comparison, but in my own case, I no longer feel the need to own a P30 back.
****
He seems to be convinced. After looking at the files myself yesterday, I come to the same conclusion. The difference is just too small to justify the prices spent.
The A900 somehow was missed on my "radar" for some reason, but there you go. It plainly starts to blur the line between the stupidly expensive 20MP or so DBs and the more reasonable consumer models. That would leave a huge amount of cash left over for lenses.
As for myself, I still shoot film for MF. I just don't shoot more than a couple of dozen rolls at most a year, so the huge cash outlay for a digital MF system - or even a a900 is... it would take me 15-20 years to recoup the cost. And 6*6 slides are gorgeous as well. Fuji has re-introduced its ISO 50 Velvia slide film and it's perfect for scenery. At 3-4 dollars a roll, it's just shocking how inexpensive it is for the results. You'd think that for that level you'd pay $5 or more per shot, but it's not even close to that much to shoot with.
The only reason I could see for even owning a MF system today would be to be able to swap between a film back and a digital back. If you want to only do digital, then there's no reason to get a digital back - you might as well just buy a 24MP camera and be done with it - concentrate on the lenses.
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HI,
This week I’ll get the Phase One AFD III and a P45 ref. for testing. I guess the P45 should work for me. It doesn’t have microlenses, so I can use it on a technical camera as well and the exposure Time can go easily over one minute (this is what I read in some reviews). And I´ll get the Bundle of the 80mm Lens with body and DB for under €12.000, - excl. VAT. Still pretty much money for an amateur …
Florian
Hi Florian,
I'm following this thread with high interest.
may I ask you where you gonna lend/buy this equipment?
I'm also austrian and very interested in digital MF.
Maybe we could meet after you made your decision and already own your camera, so i could see such equipment in action.
may I ask also you to do a side bye side comparison from your dslr and the phase back. (same picture)
I would love to print both and see the real difference, or if we could meet someday you could show me such a print comparison?
best regards
thomas
ps.: to hsOzfe:
>>we are at the beginning of a worldwide recession. I would recommend you keep your powder dry (save the cash) and get started with film<<
i think it's better to invest your money before the global situation puts it to worthlessness.
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Florian welcome to the club. I JUST bought a MF for my hobby times. I still do all my pay stuff with digital.
Do what people suggest here, pick a camera system that will accept a DB, but start off shooting film and learn.
Scan, play with, and print before you drop $10K-$40K on a DB.
That's where I am right now. learning and loving MF.
I'm going to wait til I have a weekend and rent an aptus for my camera. I went with the contax 645, but sort of wish I went with the mamiya rz67 pro II. Good thing is that film cameras are on the cheap now.
You want to do landscapes. if that is what you are doing with a tripod, I suggest going with the mamiya rz67. plus 6x7 is boarding on LF, but with out the size hassle or LF and you get to use standard 120/220 film.
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oh and the kodak's "milky glass" or "italian flag" issue... well, I have a kodak slr/n and it's got that issue. I'm not sure if the DB's have it, but I'm going to guess they probably do. you can find PS scripts that can take it out. My Kodak SLR/n is probably my least used, but when I want to shoot on a tripod and print it out at 24x36, I go with the Kodak over my nikon D3,D2x, etc... As long as you shoot the base ISO, it's an amazing camera that can't be matched in the sun light for skin tones and film like look to the pictures. If you stray from the base ISO, be prepared to be disappointed. The Kodak DB is also only 36mmx36mm so it's like the APC to FF on 35mm. If the kodak db was closer to full size, I would own one and work around the italian flag issue.
http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/doo...s056_348108.jpg (http://www.returntothepit.com/rttppics/doomriders056_348108.jpg)