Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Doug Peterson on November 03, 2008, 05:14:43 pm
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Capture Integration has found possible issues with Capture One Pro 4.5.1 which affect Canon raw files. We are investigating further, but at this time we recommend against using Capture One Pro 4.5.1 if Canon is part of your workflow. Instead you could use Capture One Pro 4.5 or Capture One Pro 3.7.9 which are not affected by these issues. We will post again when we have more information.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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Capture Integration has found possible issues with Capture One Pro 4.5.1 which affect Canon raw files. We are investigating further, but at this time we recommend against using Capture One Pro 4.5.1 if Canon is part of your workflow. Instead you could use Capture One Pro 4.5 or Capture One Pro 3.7.9 which are not affected by these issues. We will post again when we have more information.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
Take it from me DO NOT use 1DsMII files either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And also with 4.5
DOUG please change the heading to C-1 4.5 and 1DsMII files so people are informed!!!
Thanks
Snook
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doug, what is the problem, i am using it my my 1dmark III files, only once though, does it corrupt the files or something...?
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doug, what is the problem, i am using it my my 1dmark III files, only once though, does it corrupt the files or something...?
We're still investigating. Everything I know is in my opening post (which is to say, not a lot).
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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doug, what is the problem, i am using it my my 1dmark III files, only once though, does it corrupt the files or something...?
Yes It will corrupt the files, A list it did to me, I have to come back to 3.7.9 with canon
Doug thank for the information.
BlasR
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http://www.realworldworkflow.com/blog/ (http://www.realworldworkflow.com/blog/)
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http://www.realworldworkflow.com/blog/ (http://www.realworldworkflow.com/blog/)
i this problem with 4.5? or only with 4.5.1? this blog suggests 4.5 if i read it right.
paul
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Is the problem with 4.51 just with tethering or also in developing CR2 RAWs?
Thanks,
Paul
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i this problem with 4.5? or only with 4.5.1? this blog suggests 4.5 if i read it right.
Do what you want, but the way I read this is: If there's money on the table, and you're shooting a photograph worth looking at five minutes later, then avoid all versions of CaptureOne 4, when using with a 1ds2 or 1ds3. I read this to mean that the problem is when shooting tethered.
In short, use EOS Utility and DPP if you need to tether.
And I'll leave the purposeful saboutage theories, directed toward Canon, to Oliver Stone.
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Steve Hendrix,
Any info as to what your software boys are doing right now?
Regards,
Henry
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After such a long wait for PRO version, this is a real disappointment!!! It's sluggish, crashy, and has lost some of it's efficiencies in workflow, now this thing with Canon files.
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And I'll leave the purposeful saboutage theories, directed toward Canon, to Oliver Stone.
i cannot believe this.....i mean i can, but i really can't.....who are the people working on this? are they high? this is software i paid 300$ (4years ago, when that was a lot for software) ONLY to use canon files (since the version that comes with the backs won't do canon).....then the wait and wait and wait and now THIS?
that is insane....
it seems like these people first nailed one foot to the floor and now started shooting at their other foot....maybe to stop running in circles?
this is so nuts, i don't even know what to compare it to...cars blowing up if you put exxon instead of shell in the tank?
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I left 3.7.9 because of an issue with a thin black line at the bottom of every file. Use Canon 1Dsmklll. What to do now???
4.5 and 4.5.1 has been a disaster when it comes to crashes on my MacPro - stable on my new laptop MBP 17.
Thanks for warning though.
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Capture Integration has found possible issues with Capture One Pro 4.5.1 which affect Canon raw files. We are investigating further, but at this time we recommend against using Capture One Pro 4.5.1 if Canon is part of your workflow. Instead you could use Capture One Pro 4.5 or Capture One Pro 3.7.9 which are not affected by these issues. We will post again when we have more information.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
Apart from sending my files to strange places ( which may have been operator error ) and the crazy session system I have had no problems so far, I have to say that all the versions of 4 have run like dogs on on my G5 but very well on my mac book pro. Love all the new adjustments on 4.5.1. I haven't tried it with my 1ds2 ( only 1ds3 so far) yet but it doesn't sound good. when it settles I'm sure it will be the best - despite all the issues it still does better colour than ACR by a long shot.
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OK trying to Shoot tethered to 3.7.9 now and cannot get it to recognize my 1dsMII???????
Have installed the Freaking program 5 times already this moring!!!!!
And the capture k key is always greyed out..
WTF???
Doug/Chris.... you guys know what I need to do to get 3.7.8 or 3.7.9 top recognize my F"OU{(MUMI ing Canon??
In the middle of a shoot here and cannot trust 4.5 or 4.5.1
Appreciate any kind of help
Snook
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Just a little more information today.
First, as Snook experienced, and as was preliminarily confirmed last night both 4.5 and 4.5.1 have this issue with Canon. Sorry for any confusion on this; I posted what I knew yesterday, and now we know a bit more.
Because of the time-difference between DK and NY there is a literal around-the-clock investigation going on. If you all could hear the enormous amount of work being put in I think it would go a long way to assuring you that they are taking this extremely seriously. That said the problem is pretty uncommon with only a handful of reports. This is not an excuse, as obviously having this happen even once is not acceptable. Just wanted to clarify that one of the reasons this problem wasn't found/fixed before was that it is not a common set of circumstances that causes it. As Snook said, he used it for several days in testing before experiencing the problem.
By the way, I should, from my personal experience note that one of my most common calls I get in my role as tech support is "Capture One has deleted my files". Until this week every one of those calls ends with us finding that the photographer/assistant/tech moved the images, forgot they changed storage locations, had ejected the hard drive with the images etc. Tech support in NY also receives these calls a lot (where a very angry user has lost track of their images and blames the program). This might go a ways to explaining why it takes time to isolate that there actually is a problem (especially with very few such calls).
Again, I'm sorry I don't have more information. We will absolutely pass everything we know when we receive more information.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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Just a little more information today.
First, as Snook experienced, and as was preliminarily confirmed last night both 4.5 and 4.5.1 have this issue with Canon. Sorry for any confusion on this; I posted what I knew yesterday, and now we know a bit more.
Because of the time-difference between DK and NY there is a literal around-the-clock investigation going on. If you all could hear the enormous amount of work being put in I think it would go a long way to assuring you that they are taking this extremely seriously. That said the problem is pretty uncommon with only a handful of reports. This is not an excuse, as obviously having this happen even once is not acceptable. Just wanted to clarify that one of the reasons this problem wasn't found/fixed before was that it is not a common set of circumstances that causes it. As Snook said, he used it for several days in testing before experiencing the problem.
By the way, I should, from my personal experience note that one of my most common calls I get in my role as tech support is "Capture One has deleted my files". Until this week every one of those calls ends with us finding that the photographer/assistant/tech moved the images, forgot they changed storage locations, had ejected the hard drive with the images etc. Tech support in NY also receives these calls a lot (where a very angry user has lost track of their images and blames the program). This might go a ways to explaining why it takes time to isolate that there actually is a problem (especially with very few such calls).
Again, I'm sorry I don't have more information. We will absolutely pass everything we know when we receive more information.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
Doug... any reply on why 1dSMII is not being recognized by 3.7.9 nor 3.7.8? 10.5.5 Macbook Pro 17" with 4 gigs of Ram??
Please I would appreciate a little feedback..
Thanks
Snook
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Doug... any reply on why 1dSMII is not being recognized by 3.7.9 nor 3.7.8? 10.5.5 Macbook Pro 17" with 4 gigs of Ram??
Please I would appreciate a little feedback..
Thanks
Snook
Snook,
Probably the old Type8 Camera gremlin. Phase has the fix on their website: http://www.phaseone.com/HOME/Content/Suppo...mp;LanguageID=1 (http://www.phaseone.com/HOME/Content/Support/Article.aspx?articleid=2217&LanguageID=1)
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Snook,
Probably the old Type8 Camera gremlin. Phase has the fix on their website: http://www.phaseone.com/HOME/Content/Suppo...mp;LanguageID=1 (http://www.phaseone.com/HOME/Content/Support/Article.aspx?articleid=2217&LanguageID=1)
`That is what I thought but could not find any type8 file anywhere.. Even searched with a program that finds Hidden files and nothing.
And I thin that article was for like 10.3 or no?
When I open image capture it does recognize my Canon..... Just C-1 does not??
Thanks for your help...
Could anybody else verify that culd be the problem still in Leopard???
Or where I can find that file? tried searching everywhere and it does not exist. Could it be a leopard deal??
If I remember correctly I have not shot tethered with 1DsMII since I got the P30 about a year ao.. So not sure I ever shot tethered with Canon on Leaopard system??
Thought Doug would respond.. But I am sure they are crazy with this BUG problem...
Hope they get it worked out or there will a bunch of angry people...
Thanks for trying to help, I appreciate it
Anybody shooting with leopard and Canon 1DsMII??????????????? Tethered??????????????
Snook
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`That is what I thought but could not find any type8 file anywhere.. Even searched with a program that finds Hidden files and nothing.
And I thin that article was for like 10.3 or no?
When I open image capture it does recognize my Canon..... Just C-1 does not??
Thanks for your help...
Could anybody else verify that culd be the problem still in Leopard???
Or where I can find that file? tried searching everywhere and it does not exist. Could it be a leopard deal??
If I remember correctly I have not shot tethered with 1DsMII since I got the P30 about a year ao.. So not sure I ever shot tethered with Canon on Leaopard system??
Thought Doug would respond.. But I am sure they are crazy with this BUG problem...
Hope they get it worked out or there will a bunch of angry people...
Thanks for trying to help, I appreciate it
Anybody shooting with leopard and Canon 1DsMII??????????????? Tethered??????????????
Snook
Type8Camera is a program from Apple used to enable tethering in Aperture. It is very unfriendly to other programs and prevents Capture One from connecting. This arrived in 10.5.2 and continues today. Follow the steps in the article linked before, or our article below and the problem is solved.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/05/...ng-in-osx-1052/ (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/05/27/canon-tethering-in-osx-1052/)
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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Type8Camera is a program from Apple used to enable tethering in Aperture. It is very unfriendly to other programs and prevents Capture One from connecting. This arrived in 10.5.2 and continues today. Follow the steps in the article linked before, or our article below and the problem is solved.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/05/...ng-in-osx-1052/ (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/05/27/canon-tethering-in-osx-1052/)
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
Finally got it.. Took a while to find the type8file.. Had to use filebuddy to find it.
Took it out and will see tomorrow in studio if it works.. I have faith.
Any news on the Bug front?
Thanks again
Snook
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Type8Camera is a program from Apple used to enable tethering in Aperture. It is very unfriendly to other programs and prevents Capture One from connecting. This arrived in 10.5.2 and continues today. Follow the steps in the article linked before, or our article below and the problem is solved.
http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/05/...ng-in-osx-1052/ (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/05/27/canon-tethering-in-osx-1052/)
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
it's great that doug and his group have worked hard to identify some of the peoblems with 4.5, but I urge anyone who shoots for a living not to use any new software (probably cameras) until they have been tested for many months on the market.
few come out bug free and some of the problems can be disaster and this isn't the first software to corrupt files. same with cameras.
you would never have walked into a brand new lab and dropped off 400 rolls of film so why do it with digital?
we can all play the blame game, but let the companies do their own testing before you put your images or money on the line.
the only way the let the customer do the beta testing method is going to change is when a new camera or software comes out, it sets on the shelf for 6 months or a year.
then the makers will learn to get it right the first time.
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judging by what that guy wrote about Type 8, can we now say that a prior Aperture installation, and this Type 8 thing is the culprit, or did Doug find other non related issues when testing it?
is there any reason to exhale and think the issue has been isolated?
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just a few observations regarding this issue...
I upgraded both of my Mac systems from 10.4.11 to 10.5.5 (Leopard) just yesterday, mostly to be able to test C1 Pro v4.5.1
Been running 3.7.x for a long time and more recently 4.1.1.
My installations and testing of 4.5.1 went well on both systems until I tried tethering of two different Canon cameras (1DIIN, 40D). I have NOT noticed any of the corrupt .cr2 files (in several hundred captures between the two cameras), but I did have system crashes/hangups which I have traced to the settings within Image Capture. If Image Capture was set to launch C1 (or EOS Utility), when I powered on a connected camera with or without C1 4.5.1 running I would get hangup/crash that required a hard reboot. I seemed to solve this issue by selecting the "NO Application" option within Image Capture (the option that selects which application to launch when a camera is connected). C1 4.5.1 apparently changes this setting during initial launch following installation if you do not select 'NO' when asked if you want C1 to launch when a camera is connected. At my initial install, I selected yes for this option. This caused C1 to launch and open the 'Import Files' screen even if I inserted a CF card into either of my Lexar FW800 card readers. Now I just connect the camera via the relevant interface but do not power it on, then launch C1-4.5.1, click on the 'camera' tab, then power-on the camera; C1 recognizes it and I can shoot tethered into which ever folder I select in the menu.
Note that both of my Leopard 10.5.5 installations have the file referenced in the above posts (the Type8Camera.app file) intact in its default location. The presence of this file does not seem to be an issue on either of my systems at this time. I will test further tomorrow.
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Capture Integration has found possible issues with Capture One Pro 4.5.1 which affect Canon raw files. We are investigating further, but at this time we recommend against using Capture One Pro 4.5.1 if Canon is part of your workflow. Instead you could use Capture One Pro 4.5 or Capture One Pro 3.7.9 which are not affected by these issues. We will post again when we have more information.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
FYI, over on the Leica forum, M8 users are reporting the same problem.
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judging by what that guy wrote about Type 8, can we now say that a prior Aperture installation, and this Type 8 thing is the culprit, or did Doug find other non related issues when testing it?
is there any reason to exhale and think the issue has been isolated?
That issue is absolutely unrelated. It was off-topic. Snook had moved back to 3.7.9 and could not get his Canon to connect; type8camera was related to that problem, not the topic discussion of the vague, but very problematic issue with Canon raw files in C1 4.5.1.
just a few observations regarding this issue...
I upgraded both of my Mac systems from 10.4.11 to 10.5.5 (Leopard) just yesterday, mostly to be able to test C1 Pro v4.5.1
Been running 3.7.x for a long time and more recently 4.1.1.
My installations and testing of 4.5.1 went well on both systems until I tried tethering of two different Canon cameras (1DIIN, 40D). I have NOT noticed any of the corrupt .cr2 files (in several hundred captures between the two cameras), but I did have system crashes/hangups which I have traced to the settings within Image Capture. If Image Capture was set to launch C1 (or EOS Utility), when I powered on a connected camera with or without C1 4.5.1 running I would get hangup/crash that required a hard reboot. I seemed to solve this issue by selecting the "NO Application" option within Image Capture (the option that selects which application to launch when a camera is connected). C1 4.5.1 apparently changes this setting during initial launch following installation if you do not select 'NO' when asked if you want C1 to launch when a camera is connected. At my initial install, I selected yes for this option. This caused C1 to launch and open the 'Import Files' screen even if I inserted a CF card into either of my Lexar FW800 card readers. Now I just connect the camera via the relevant interface but do not power it on, then launch C1-4.5.1, click on the 'camera' tab, then power-on the camera; C1 recognizes it and I can shoot tethered into which ever folder I select in the menu.
Note that both of my Leopard 10.5.5 installations have the file referenced in the above posts (the Type8Camera.app file) intact in its default location. The presence of this file does not seem to be an issue on either of my systems at this time. I will test further tomorrow.
I'd suggest reading the release notes for 4.5.1. They suggest connecting the camera and turning it on prior to launching C1. Then again, "if it aint broke..."
FYI, over on the Leica forum, M8 users are reporting the same problem.
THANK YOU very much. I had not seen this and though Phase is probably aware of it, I will be sure to pass it on to them immediatly just to be sure.
To everyone who is showing patience (especially with us, since we are just a messenger) despite the very serious nature of the problem: thank you very much. A 4.5.2 has been underway for the last several days in order to solve these problem as quickly as possible. Of course the worst thing (if there is such a thing here) would be for them to release 4.5.2 that solves this problem but introduces some other problem. Therefore, I would encourage continued patience so there is sufficient time to test the fix and ensure a stable release.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
No Doug,
Thank you for keeping us updated. At least with your help, I'm getting some idea where this is going whereas over at the Phaseone user forum, there has been very little word from P1 moderators.
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No Doug,
Thank you for keeping us updated. At least with your help, I'm getting some idea where this is going whereas over at the Phaseone user forum, there has been very little word from P1 moderators.
Doug,
Steve Hendrix should take note of how you and Dave Gallagher are handling this situation. Your behavior, and your responses, are a model of how it should be done.
The fact that people don't even bother posting to, or reading from, the official Phase forum, is evidence that the Phase forum should be taken down entirely. It is a black eye on their corporate culture. For every day that it continues, it reinforces one of the main reasons why Phase customers are frustrated.
It's refreshing to have a company like Capture Integration running blocker for its customers.
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It's refreshing to have a company like Capture Integration running blocker for its customers.
I don't disagree with the criticisms of Phase or its forum at all, and it would be nice if Steve made a stronger presence in dealing with and preemptively facing these types of problems here on the boards... however, isn't the dealer model built to "run blocker" so to speak? We don't interact with Phase directly for hardly anything; everything is done through the dealer network. I'm not really complaining about that either. It's been very nice to have CI on my side in helping to get me everything I need and "run blocker" with some issues I've had stepping into the P30+.
I think the models of Canikon are far worse. Canon, for example, doesn't admit or help to fix flaws in their software or hardware any better. Their support website is a joke. They still barely admit or fixed the AF issues that plagued the 1D3. And in dealing with their support and repair services, rather, fighting with their support services.... I can tell it's horrid. You are a tiny PITA peon in a world of other tiny peons to Canon. They are trained to be nice and friendly, but there's not really any brains or desire to help you behind it. I got the impression that they hope if they smile and nod enough, you'll forget your problems and walk away.
Even if Phase wanted to act like Canon in this regard, we've got our dealers to tow a heavy line for us, a far heavier line that we as individuals could tow.
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I don't disagree with the criticisms of Phase or its forum at all, and it would be nice if Steve made a stronger presence in dealing with and preemptively facing these types of problems here on the boards... however, isn't the dealer model built to "run blocker" so to speak? We don't interact with Phase directly for hardly anything; everything is done through the dealer network. I'm not really complaining about that either. It's been very nice to have CI on my side in helping to get me everything I need and "run blocker" with some issues I've had stepping into the P30+.
I think the models of Canikon are far worse. Canon, for example, doesn't admit or help to fix flaws in their software or hardware any better. Their support website is a joke. They still barely admit or fixed the AF issues that plagued the 1D3. And in dealing with their support and repair services, rather, fighting with their support services.... I can tell it's horrid. You are a tiny PITA peon in a world of other tiny peons to Canon. They are trained to be nice and friendly, but there's not really any brains or desire to help you behind it. I got the impression that they hope if they smile and nod enough, you'll forget your problems and walk away.
Even if Phase wanted to act like Canon in this regard, we've got our dealers to tow a heavy line for us, a far heavier line that we as individuals could tow.
Someone at Canon must not like you. I've had Canon bend over backwards to fix issues with my gear over the years. Nikon as well. Not to say that Nikon and Canon don't have their issues, they do, but when its $4500 versus $42k, well, the disapointment is easier to swallow.
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Someone at Canon must not like you. I've had Canon bend over backwards to fix issues with my gear over the years. Nikon as well. Not to say that Nikon and Canon don't have their issues, they do, but when its $4500 versus $42k, well, the disapointment is easier to swallow.
Lol. The trouble begins when you have to start sending stuff in more than once to fix it. And then they want test shots and all sorts of things to "support" your claim. It's just a tiring system.
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Lol. The trouble begins when you have to start sending stuff in more than once to fix it. And then they want test shots and all sorts of things to "support" your claim. It's just a tiring system.
NOTHING can be worse than the PhaseOne guys..
I agree that Doug is very helpful.
The Phase One Forums is a Mirror of their Service.
I had them Fix my back no problem right now and was quite happy with that service.. But as far as communication, which there is NONE, it's horrible....
It's a shame really as they have a good product.. I just think it is in the Blood to be cold and silent.
I am seriuosly thinking about dumping the MF all together until some one comes out with a satbel all around product and that seems to be Canon at the moment.
Never dealt with any Leaf people nor Hassleblad , But I bet it is not much different.. Boy they hounded me and were there when I was thinking about buying a back...
I stated from the beginning that we were going to be the BETA tester for C-1 4.5 and they said no we have been testing it for a long time.... Yeh Right!
I am sure they never tried it with Canon nor Leica.
Also I was the first one to start posting the cr2 Raw problems as well...
They did not even show up on the Freaking PhaseOne forum until today...
Also someone sure write (Doug/Phase) 4.5 also as that is when it started with me.. I actually do not have 4.5.1 installed.
So people may get a small sense of security and might start shooting back with 4.5 which has the same problem....
Thanks Doug.I vote Doug for president of PhaseOne...
Nothing worse than Silence and not saying anything....
Snook
PS. This is going to be the straw that broke the camels back for sure...
Edited for Carsten...:+}
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I just think it is in the Blood to be cold and silent. Quite like Denmark itself...
Can you justify or retract that statement, please?
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Still On Tiger on shooting station and everything works no problem
New MacBook Pro 15 with C1Pro 4.5 and everything seems to be working fine
In tower only have C1 Pro 3.7.9 and CS3 nothing else. Other than what comes with Apple and software updates
MacBook pro has a little more but not much Both C1's are up and running. Just completed a catalog in Chicago and all seems well.
30 shots a day about 60 shots per look in studio on tower
15 shots per day on location with laptop and all working fine.
People have to realize that all the crap that they put on their machines can affect the way it works.
Every rental house I work with when traveling still has Tiger on all machines. The staple and rock solid program is tiger with C1 pro 3.7.9
GOBAMA!
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Some of the best and most honest people I have met in my life are from Denmark! plus, my wife is Danish. Disregard the racist uneducated Trolls
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Still On Tiger on shooting station and everything works no problem
New MacBook Pro 15 with C1Pro 4.5 and everything seems to be working fine
In tower only have C1 Pro 3.7.9 and CS3 nothing else. Other than what comes with Apple and software updates
MacBook pro has a little more but not much Both C1's are up and running. Just completed a catalog in Chicago and all seems well.
30 shots a day about 60 shots per look in studio on tower
15 shots per day on location with laptop and all working fine.
People have to realize that all the crap that they put on their machines can affect the way it works.
Every rental house I work with when traveling still has Tiger on all machines. The staple and rock solid program is tiger with C1 pro 3.7.9
GOBAMA!
I am assuming you shot the whole time with Canons... Right? That's what the thread is about and the Problem.
Now Leica also, Supposedly..?
Has anybody had any troubles with Phase One Backs...
Starting a 4 day advertising Job tomorrow in Studio and will be shooting the P30 with RZ to C-14.5
As far as the problems go, It's just Non Phase Cameras I am safe to assume. Correct? Thanks for any information about that.
Snook
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Thanks for removing that, Snook. I got kinda hot around the ears there for a second I must have edited that post 10 times in 2 minutes.
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I am assuming you shot the whole time with Canons... Right? That's what the thread is about and the Problem.
Now Leica also, Supposedly..?
Has anybody had any troubles with Phase One Backs...
Starting a 4 day advertising Job tomorrow in Studio and will be shooting the P30 with RZ to C-14.5
As far as the problems go, It's just Non Phase Cameras I am safe to assume. Correct? Thanks for any information about that.
Snook
why would you even think about shooting or even processing a job in 4.5 right now, regardless of camera?
I can't imagine you would even have the software on your machine(s).
obviously there are issues and you don't know how far reaching.
as far as phase one not communicating, they don't, and phase is the first to tell you it is in their culture not to communicate.
they are not non nice people, but they don't give out information and are slow to react to even direct one-on-one problems much less respond in public. even if you work closely with them it takes a long period before you get a response that is understandable and even then it is a monumental effort.
other medium format companies (and canon) can be frustrating in not owning up quickly to an issue or worse answering the 4 questions they want to answer and disregarding the 10 you need answered.
regardless, whether canon has issues really has nothing to do with this. in fact what one company does has nothing to do with another company and that is where digital cameras, more specifically medium format falls down.
most surveys show that most professional photographers have a handful of clients a year and I can't imagine taking any risks.
use what has worked for you in the past and wait until the issues are completely cleared up.
i would look at any new digital purchase or change the way you would approach a new film lab. test slowly, carefully before committing your reputation.
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Thanks for removing that, Snook. I got kinda hot around the ears there for a second I must have edited that post 10 times in 2 minutes.
No Problem...
A lot of times I write out of anger also and don't mean for it to sound like it does... Then After I read it myself a couple of times I no it did not sound right...
Sorry once again..:+}
I just really PO'ed how Phase one people (Themselves) Never respond EVER to anything.. So it is frustrating..
There are guys in here ready to bitch at what ever I end up writing...
If some one does not like it, There is a ignore user button which I also have on a bunch a guys in here as well b/c Sick of their return comments to what I have to say.
In any case the problem I figure is mainly with Canon I think. Also it is with 4.5 and 4.5.1
The only people trying to help are Phase reps that are in here.
The Phase One forum is ajoke and I meant to say they are Cold just like Denmark is, But once again it came out wrong..
That is why I did not run for president this time around..:+}
Snook
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Has anybody had any troubles with Phase One Backs...
Starting a 4 day advertising Job tomorrow in Studio and will be shooting the P30 with RZ to C-14.5
As far as the problems go, It's just Non Phase Cameras I am safe to assume. Correct? Thanks for any information about that.
Snook
FWIW I have not received any reports from any of our customers of problems with Phase One backs. The problem discussed in this thread does not concern Phase One files as far as anything I've heard/seen/read. It is not completely crash-proof like 3.7.9* was after countless revisions, but it quite stable. Some of the new features, especially those governing tethered shooting and editing, are very hard to say no to. But of course having a backup machine/partition/bootable-external-hard-drive with a known commodity like 3.7.9 is a great idea. I've never seen a case where a functioning back was rendered non-functioning because of bad software**, so if you have your backup 3.7.9 machine/partition/bootable-external-hard-drive you should be safe in any event. Then again, bcooter has tremendous in-the-field experience, so I'm not arguing against his assertion so much as offering another view.
*I mean specifically that when 3.7.9 was installed on a clean machine and run with according to our Ideal Tethered Setup (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/09/09/the-ideal-tethered-setup/) that it was absolutely rock solid for any level of production intensity.
**Botched firmware updates excluded.
The only meaningful update I have for you on the thread topic is that a 4.5.2 is being worked on feverishly and will fix this problem. Not that it matters to the end-user what the source of a bug is (after all if it don't work it don't work) but it appears this was caused by a glitch in OSX.
I should say for the record that I really think 4.5.X will be a tremendous force in the industry. It is already surprisingly mature for its age and this major problem notwithstanding the future is very bright.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
P.S. Thanks for the kind words guys. The real credit goes to Dave Gallagher, our owner, who establishes our company culture which holds honesty and the end-user above all else. <-- yeah sure, I'm sucking up a bit, he is my boss :-)
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I don't shoot tethered but I do use a Mk111 and C1 Pro.
What I really want to defend is the critism of Phase One support.
I'm merely average with computer technology and having downloaded the Pro version for trial I screwed up in every area imaginable.
Living in a non-English speaking village in Thailand with an Apple iMac on Leopard exacerbated the problem - they've only just discovered electricity here!
The Phase One support was exemplary. I'll single out "Jakub". He responded to my reports within minutes. Each and every time with the precise answer to the problem.
ALL the problems were user initiated.
C1 Pro 4.5.1 is running perfect on my uncluttered machine and I couldn't ask for more. Needless to say I'll be preceeding with purchase.
Big thumbs up from me.
p.s. I'd like to say more but next door need the electricity cable now!
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Flat out no issues at all with the Phase backs, shot several jobs already with it and will continue as such.
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I have just received a very positive call from the Head of Tech Support at Phase One.
The problem has been specifically identified and a fix has been found.
4.5.2 is in the final stages of testing and will be released tomorrow. It will fix the problem discussed in this thread.
For those technically inclined: Here is the problem from a technical point of view. The Mac OS uses extensive Disk Caching to improve performance (this is nothing new or unusual). This means that a file can appear in the finder as a full-and-final looking file even though the drive itself has not written the actual 1s and 0s. There is a problem with a specific set of circumstances (this is where it goes over my head) where a program crash can cause the stack of images in the disk cache to be lost. Therefore the only thing left on the hard drive was the placeholder (the name, location, and thumbnail) and not any of the actual data, hence the 0kb file size. Again, even as technical as I am (I was a UI programmer for several years) some of this is beyond me. The part that really matters is that the fix to the problem involves checking the cache and ensuring that at most two images are in the cache at one time. This means that at absolute worst (and this would be very unlikely) a hard-crash (hard drive unplugged, power failure, software crash) would compromise the most recent two tethered captures (and only for a brief period after capture).
I would also point out that there was a lot of confusion in the last several days. Any number of issues (including user error) tend to get wrapped up into the most recent known problem. The Head of Tech Support said they have spoken with everyone who reported this problem to phase through their "contact support" on phaseone.com. They tell me the problem was quite rare. In almost every case the person was not able to reproduce the error, adding to the length to confirm there was a problem and find/solve it. Never would I say this excuses anything, but hopefully it does explain a bit.
Capture Integration will be doing our own testing of 4.5.2 when it is released and encourage any of our customers who choose to use or test 4.5.2 to give us feedback on stability/performance. As always I encourage you to read our Ideal Tethered Setup (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/09/09/the-ideal-tethered-setup/), none of which is necessary, but all of which is a good idea. You'll hear from us either way, though to get proper feedback and testing will take time.
This problem, scary as it was, notwithstanding, I still in my heart believe that Phase One is the best choice for a pro who wants performance and speed of workflow. Hopefully the 4.5.2 release and subsequent releases will strengthen their position as the cornerstone of the tethered market.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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I have just received a very positive call from the Head of Tech Support at Phase One.
The problem has been specifically identified and a fix has been found.
4.5.2 is in the final stages of testing and will be released tomorrow. It will fix the problem discussed in this thread.
For those technically inclined: Here is the problem from a technical point of view. The Mac OS uses extensive Disk Caching to improve performance (this is nothing new or unusual). This means that a file can appear in the finder as a full-and-final looking file even though the drive itself has not written the actual 1s and 0s. There is a problem with a specific set of circumstances (this is where it goes over my head) where a program crash can cause the stack of images in the disk cache to be lost. Therefore the only thing left on the hard drive was the placeholder (the name, location, and thumbnail) and not any of the actual data, hence the 0kb file size. Again, even as technical as I am (I was a UI programmer for several years) some of this is beyond me. The part that really matters is that the fix to the problem involves checking the cache and ensuring that at most two images are in the cache at one time. This means that at absolute worst (and this would be very unlikely) a hard-crash (hard drive unplugged, power failure, software crash) would compromise the most recent two tethered captures (and only for a brief period after capture).
I would also point out that there was a lot of confusion in the last several days. Any number of issues (including user error) tend to get wrapped up into the most recent known problem. The Head of Tech Support said they have spoken with everyone who reported this problem to phase through their "contact support" on phaseone.com. They tell me the problem was quite rare. In almost every case the person was not able to reproduce the error, adding to the length to confirm there was a problem and find/solve it. Never would I say this excuses anything, but hopefully it does explain a bit.
Capture Integration will be doing our own testing of 4.5.2 when it is released and encourage any of our customers who choose to use or test 4.5.2 to give us feedback on stability/performance. As always I encourage you to read our Ideal Tethered Setup (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/09/09/the-ideal-tethered-setup/), none of which is necessary, but all of which is a good idea. You'll hear from us either way, though to get proper feedback and testing will take time.
This problem, scary as it was, notwithstanding, I still in my heart believe that Phase One is the best choice for a pro who wants performance and speed of workflow. Hopefully the 4.5.2 release and subsequent releases will strengthen their position as the cornerstone of the tethered market.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
Doug,
you and your group should be commended for staying on top of this and being public and transparent. I'm sure you've helped a lot of people because it seems to me your group is the public face of this issue.
what I don't understand is why phase didn't send out some kind of official statement through their e-mail blasts. they are very good at sending out an e-mail everytime they want to demo a frozen back or put a land rover on top of one, but when there are issues, they just go quiet, leaving it to you and your group to take the heat.
sure, phase makes a good product, but their silence is legendary when there are problems and if not, it appears that way.
in today's business climate I find a lot of this fascinating. everyone is going through hard times and every client excpects more. I am in the middle of a project and at this point we are walking wounded, shooting 4,000 to 3,000 files a day and the expenses on this project and staggering. I can't imagine how I would feel if images started getting lost even one of them.
I can't begin to tell you what a client's reaction would be to this is any file was lost.
and it's not just client expectations. we have crew pulling 18 hour days and they are as proud of the work we are producing as I am. if something isn't right and a series was lost of corrupted it would take the wind out of their sails and cost of many 10's of thousands of dollars.
at a professional level this is an extremely serious business (I know that you understand that) but for phase to report that a lot of this is user error (even if that is true) doesn't change the fact that they yanked 4.5 and 4.51 off the server and now have 4.5.2 . Obvously something was wrong and the moment it was discovered phase should have informed everyone, that moment.
once again, your group is on top of it, but phase and a lot of other medium format companies could do a lot better job of being clear and upfront.
sometimes I think these companies live in their own bubble.
I don't envy your job one bit.
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for phase to report that a lot of this is user error (even if that is true) doesn't change the fact that they yanked 4.5 and 4.51 off the server and now have 4.5.2 . Obvously something was wrong and the moment it was discovered phase should have informed everyone, that moment.
Just to clarify, I did not mean (nor did Phase ever tell me) that this problem was related to any user error. What I meant was that it was confusing and hard to separate calls that we get all the time that are user-error (e.g. an assistant hit delete when they were not looking) from a genuine software issue.
Thank you for the kind words.
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)
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Also. 4.5.2 was indeed released to the public with a fix for the problem for which this thread was made.
See more info at: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=29242 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29242)
Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer (http://www.captureintegration.com) | Personal Portfolio (http://www.doug-peterson.com)