Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: Mark F on October 09, 2008, 02:14:25 pm
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Like others who have posted, I am having trouble profiling my 24" iMAC. I bought the iOne Dispaly 2, downloaded the latest software and followed the directions that recommended setting luminance to 120 cd/m2. Set the monitor brightness level to as low as possible, but cannot get the luminance to go below 252 cd/m2.
I really do not understand what this means, but have read enough to know that I haven't got a chance to make prints that look like what I see on the monitor unless it is properly profiled. So how will the high luminance effect this? Is there a good workaround?
Also, I had set the monitor at 1920 x 1200 but the iOne software changes this to 1280 x 960 which is really not good for reading. Any way to get around this?
Thanks.
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Like others who have posted, I am having trouble profiling my 24" iMAC. I bought the iOne Dispaly 2, downloaded the latest software and followed the directions that recommended setting luminance to 120 cd/m2. Set the monitor brightness level to as low as possible, but cannot get the luminance to go below 252 cd/m2.
I really do not understand what this means, but have read enough to know that I haven't got a chance to make prints that look like what I see on the monitor unless it is properly profiled. So how will the high luminance effect this? Is there a good workaround?
Also, I had set the monitor at 1920 x 1200 but the iOne software changes this to 1280 x 960 which is really not good for reading. Any way to get around this?
Thanks.
Try color eyes display pro http://www.integrated-color.com/cedpro/coloreyesdisplay.html (http://www.integrated-color.com/cedpro/coloreyesdisplay.html)
You select LCD brightness only as your monitor and it will get the brightness down to your setpoint. Start out with brightness down to about 10%. You can use the trial version for 10 days.
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Try color eyes display pro http://www.integrated-color.com/cedpro/coloreyesdisplay.html (http://www.integrated-color.com/cedpro/coloreyesdisplay.html)
You select LCD brightness only as your monitor and it will get the brightness down to your setpoint. Start out with brightness down to about 10%. You can use the trial version for 10 days.
That looks interesting for my Imac monitor. Can ColorEyes be configured to work on the Imac monitor and leave my Eizo CG alone?
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Thanks, I will give Color Eyes a look. There is also a downloadable shareware program on the Apple site called ScreenShade that may solve my problem. It isn't working exactly right on my 24" iMac but I emailed the author and he is very anxious to solve the problem.
In the meanwhile, can someone tell me what to expect in terms of print fidelity if I cannot get the luminance down to the recommended 120? Will there be a color shift from the monitor, a difference in print brightness, change in contrast, or all of the above?
Thanks again.
Mark
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Thanks, I will give Color Eyes a look. There is also a downloadable shareware program on the Apple site called ScreenShade that may solve my problem. It isn't working exactly right on my 24" iMac but I emailed the author and he is very anxious to solve the problem.
In the meanwhile, can someone tell me what to expect in terms of print fidelity if I cannot get the luminance down to the recommended 120? Will there be a color shift from the monitor, a difference in print brightness, change in contrast, or all of the above?
Thanks again.
Mark
Hello Mark,
I am also working on an 24 imac. I am also working with the iOne Display 2. I can bring down my lumincance do about 190. I have just finished a test series on printing because I changed the printing shop that I use. To make it short - I got on print what I have on screen. I was very happy with the results.
I can not offer any solution on your resolution. Mine works fine.
Sigi
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Thanks, I will give Color Eyes a look. There is also a downloadable shareware program on the Apple site called ScreenShade that may solve my problem. It isn't working exactly right on my 24" iMac but I emailed the author and he is very anxious to solve the problem.
Thanks for the tip on ScreenShade.
Mike
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Hi Sigi,
Did you do anything to bring the luminance down to 190 or is that just the way the measurement came up? As far as I can tell the only monitor control on the iMac is through "Displays" under the System Preferences, and that is a sliding bar for "brightness". Did you find another control?
Thanks for the feedback on your print fidelity. I really have no idea what ot expect with luminance out of whack.
Mark
Hello Mark,
I am also working on an 24 imac. I am also working with the iOne Display 2. I can bring down my lumincance do about 190. I have just finished a test series on printing because I changed the printing shop that I use. To make it short - I got on print what I have on screen. I was very happy with the results.
I can not offer any solution on your resolution. Mine works fine.
Sigi
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If you can't get the luminance of your screen down, then the other way to have the two match is to bring the illumination of your prints UP. That would mean increasing your ambient light or getting a light booth or some such means of increasing the apparent brightness of the print. Generally that is not the way to go because you'd have to bring it up quite a bit to hit 200 cd/m2.
If your screen is too bright you can expect to see more shadow detail on your screen than you will see on your prints. Mostly it's a matter of your screen looking bright and colorful - and your prints looking flat and dull by comparison. It's helpful to remember that it's only 'by comparison' as long as there's nothing wrong with your printing.
ColorEyes Display pro has settings for Eizo displays as well, so you might just see if it does a good if not better job calibrating your Eizo. Since you already have the i1 puck you could get the CED software only.
Shades is not recommended for color-critical work because it merely dims the graphics card curves equally - and makes the monitor calibration obsolete.
We've got a whole article on this very subject:
http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/My_Printer_Is_Too_Dark (http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/My_Printer_Is_Too_Dark)
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Hi Sigi,
Did you do anything to bring the luminance down to 190 or is that just the way the measurement came up? As far as I can tell the only monitor control on the iMac is through "Displays" under the System Preferences, and that is a sliding bar for "brightness". Did you find another control?
Thanks for the feedback on your print fidelity. I really have no idea what ot expect with luminance out of whack.
Mark
Hello Mark,
I have put the brightness all the way down before I started calibrating and that was the measurement that came up. I have pulled the brightness down via the keyboard, doing it via "displays" is another way I guess.
I was also not sure what to expect regarding prints. I just thought before I spend my time in fora I just spend 5 Euros and have a few prints done.
Sigi
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Thanks Patrick, I will definitely read that article.
Using Screen Shades brought the luminance down to 177 +/- 1/2. I then ran the Eye-One Match 3 software and re-profiled my iMac. But that would not deal with your other comment.
Mark
.........Shades is not recommended for color-critical work because it merely dims the graphics card curves equally - and makes the monitor calibration obsolete.
We've got a whole article on this very subject:
http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/My_Printer_Is_Too_Dark (http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/My_Printer_Is_Too_Dark)
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Hi Mark,
Usually these Mac dimming apps work by lowering all the colors in the graphics card. When i1Match starts up, it automatically resets the graphics card color curves. So I would be very interested in hearing what you get when you combine the two. Do you still retain the 177 luminance at the end of calibrating with the i1? Do your input/output curves you get at the end summary screen look the same when you have ScreenShade on as they do when you are not using ScreenShade?
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With my iMac 24" screen (2008) the only way I got the screen down to the level I wanted 100 cd/m was to drop the brightness down to 10% and then use ColorEyes Display Pro. This hit the level bang on.
I looked at Shades but I noticed banding when it was in use, but ColorEyes solved the problem so I dropped Shades from the machine.
If you want more information on what I did check out the Journal page on my site at http://www.philcorley.com/articles_68520.html (http://www.philcorley.com/articles_68520.html)
Phil
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Hi Patrick,
I got to the 177 luminance by profiling with the Match 3 software with the Screen Shade turned on and the monitor brightness slider all the way to the left. Without Screen Shade turned on, the Match 3 software never got a luminance to below 252 or so.
I'm not familiar with the input / output curves so cannot answer that question. Sorry.
I have downloaded the demo version of the Color Eyes software and am now struggling trying to figure out the correct settings to use under "Advanced".
Mark
Hi Mark,
Usually these Mac dimming apps work by lowering all the colors in the graphics card. When i1Match starts up, it automatically resets the graphics card color curves. So I would be very interested in hearing what you get when you combine the two. Do you still retain the 177 luminance at the end of calibrating with the i1? Do your input/output curves you get at the end summary screen look the same when you have ScreenShade on as they do when you are not using ScreenShade?
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There is a simple two step process here for using Coloreyes with an Imac. On the first profile select the Apple monitor plugin and set your target luminance in white point target. Now build a profile. When done check out where the brightness slider in Displat prefs ended up. If you are nowhere near your target and the slider is all the way to the left do the following. Set the pref slider to 10% of total brightness. Now select lcd brightness only in monitor setting in coloreyes and build another profile. This will apply the brightness correction to the video card and you will hit your target.
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Thanks, Jack. I will give this a try.
There is a simple two step process here for using Coloreyes with an Imac. On the first profile select the Apple monitor plugin and set your target luminance in white point target. Now build a profile. When done check out where the brightness slider in Displat prefs ended up. If you are nowhere near your target and the slider is all the way to the left do the following. Set the pref slider to 10% of total brightness. Now select lcd brightness only in monitor setting in coloreyes and build another profile. This will apply the brightness correction to the video card and you will hit your target.
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Interesting thread. I have a 24" aluminum iMac also and was plagued with a screen that was too bright. The eye One Display 2 software would not bring it down and it was difficult to profile the screen and get the proper color and gamma also. So finally got it profiled to where the color was good but still too bright and resorted to screenshades to get the proper luminance. It brought it down but the screen seemed to have lost its vibrance and was sort of muddy.
Saw this thread and downloaded the ColorEyes demo and it brought the luminance down but am not sure exactly sure how close it is to the target of 120 I asked for. I couldn't make head nor tales of the graphs at the end as it is not as simple as the Gretag/MacBeth software. So can anyone tell me how to find my current luminance?
I will say the screen is much more pleasing now without the screenshades influence and I will surely buy the ColorEyes download as soon as I get this all sorted out to my satisfaction.
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Phil Corley is one of the contributors to this thread and kindly offered advice on this same question. He pointed that after calibration is complete, going into "Validate Current Profile" will show the luminance.
Phil had another good piece of advice, to cover the screen with a dark cloth when calibrating to prevent reflections under the sensor
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Thanks Mark,
I went ahead and calibrated again just to check my settings. Went for Native White Point, 120 luminance, and gamma of 2.2
With the Getag/MacBeth softwareI have used previously it was really plain what your targets were and how far off you might be. Here are the results below but I have to be honest...I ain't got a clue as to what these numbers mean.
Can someone tell me what this means...am I close, on the money, way off?
ColorEyes Display Validation Log
2008-10-17 20:06:57
Display: iMac 1
System Profile: New Profile (2008-10-17 19-59)
Created By: ColorEyes Display
Creation Date: 2008-10-17 20:06:02
Validation Results:
# C M Y K Target L a b Measured L a b DeltaE
1 0 0 0 0 100.000 0.000 0.000 100.000 -0.214 -0.121 0.34
2 0 0 0 0 95.645 0.000 0.000 95.627 -0.257 0.204 0.43
3 0 0 0 0 91.230 0.000 0.000 91.204 -0.160 0.052 0.25
4 0 0 0 0 86.756 0.000 0.000 86.682 -0.010 -0.306 0.31
5 0 0 0 0 82.205 0.000 0.000 82.115 -0.237 -0.007 0.36
6 0 0 0 0 77.577 0.000 0.000 77.404 -0.402 0.034 0.61
7 0 0 0 0 70.664 0.000 0.000 70.863 -0.445 -0.125 0.69
8 0 0 0 0 62.787 0.000 0.000 63.392 -0.404 -0.110 0.79
9 0 0 0 0 54.242 0.000 0.000 55.827 -0.118 -0.043 1.51
10 0 0 0 0 41.121 0.000 0.000 42.555 -0.282 0.162 1.37
11 0 0 0 0 26.966 0.000 0.000 28.635 -0.000 -0.158 1.27
12 0 0 0 0 17.005 0.000 0.000 17.683 0.122 -0.305 0.58
13 0 0 0 0 55.382 83.788 83.550 55.223 83.873 83.393 0.17
14 0 0 0 0 86.420 -76.185 91.313 86.481 -76.055 91.456 0.07
15 0 0 0 0 33.705 51.328 -91.717 33.777 51.581 -91.609 0.17
Maximum DeltaE: 1.51
Average DeltaE: 0.59
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All you need to do is look at current system profile. That tells you the final values of your profile. I would suggest that you choose d65 or d50, or at least something that might mimic your current viewing condition. Native is not the best choice here.
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Might I also suggest that the guided tour has fairly extensive descriptions of how all the tools work and what they mean.
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All you need to do is look at current system profile. That tells you the final values of your profile.
OK found it, thanks.
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Hi!
A hint is that a DeltaE of 5 is visible. Its pretty much on target. I won't go into DeltaE, especially as there are different formulas for it. The colums are
Target LAB and Measured LAB (L is luminance, a, b are color coordinates). Traget and measured values should be as close as possible. Delta E is the geometric mean of the error for all three coordinates (L, a and .
Be happy!
Erik
Thanks Mark,
I went ahead and calibrated again just to check my settings. Went for Native White Point, 120 luminance, and gamma of 2.2
With the Getag/MacBeth softwareI have used previously it was really plain what your targets were and how far off you might be. Here are the results below but I have to be honest...I ain't got a clue as to what these numbers mean.
Can someone tell me what this means...am I close, on the money, way off?
ColorEyes Display Validation Log
2008-10-17 20:06:57
Display: iMac 1
System Profile: New Profile (2008-10-17 19-59)
Created By: ColorEyes Display
Creation Date: 2008-10-17 20:06:02
Validation Results:
# C M Y K Target L a b Measured L a b DeltaE
1 0 0 0 0 100.000 0.000 0.000 100.000 -0.214 -0.121 0.34
2 0 0 0 0 95.645 0.000 0.000 95.627 -0.257 0.204 0.43
3 0 0 0 0 91.230 0.000 0.000 91.204 -0.160 0.052 0.25
4 0 0 0 0 86.756 0.000 0.000 86.682 -0.010 -0.306 0.31
5 0 0 0 0 82.205 0.000 0.000 82.115 -0.237 -0.007 0.36
6 0 0 0 0 77.577 0.000 0.000 77.404 -0.402 0.034 0.61
7 0 0 0 0 70.664 0.000 0.000 70.863 -0.445 -0.125 0.69
8 0 0 0 0 62.787 0.000 0.000 63.392 -0.404 -0.110 0.79
9 0 0 0 0 54.242 0.000 0.000 55.827 -0.118 -0.043 1.51
10 0 0 0 0 41.121 0.000 0.000 42.555 -0.282 0.162 1.37
11 0 0 0 0 26.966 0.000 0.000 28.635 -0.000 -0.158 1.27
12 0 0 0 0 17.005 0.000 0.000 17.683 0.122 -0.305 0.58
13 0 0 0 0 55.382 83.788 83.550 55.223 83.873 83.393 0.17
14 0 0 0 0 86.420 -76.185 91.313 86.481 -76.055 91.456 0.07
15 0 0 0 0 33.705 51.328 -91.717 33.777 51.581 -91.609 0.17
Maximum DeltaE: 1.51
Average DeltaE: 0.59
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Might I also suggest that the guided tour has fairly extensive descriptions of how all the tools work and what they mean.
Hi Jack,
I have followed this discussion with interest having bought an iMac (my first Mac) 2 months ago. I have not been impressed with the screen and having downloaded the ColorEyes demo and used it with a Spyder2 there is a noticeable improvement. Still not quite how I would really like it even after trying numerous options. The Apple display gave a luminance around 250. The LCD Brightness only was much better.
I am however very puzzled by the Profile Verification. I set Auto-validate after Calibration and was pleased to see average dE 0.32 and Max dE of 0.98.
I re-ran Validate half an hour later having removed and re-connected the Spyder. The results showed average dE 20.59 and Max dE 53.07. Images on screen look identical to the eye.
Can you please give me an explanation? Have I messed up somewhere?
I was unable to find the Measure Color List or the Macbeth Color Checker File. In the Validate Profile window the drop down only had 2 options Validate calibration and Evaluate display profile.
Kind regards
Peter