Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: elitegroup on May 19, 2008, 09:06:57 am
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As an emerging photographer I'm at the stage where I'm feeling my way around the negotiation table with potential clients.
In a previous issue of Capture (an Australian Pro-Photography Magazine) a standard industry commercial day rate was quoted/estimated at around $2700-$3600 a day plus expenses. (this was based on research from working photographers in the U.S. I believe)
After making my own queries (checking with local talent) here in Perth the rate is fairly dismal some where around the $2200-$2500 a day + expenses.
Mind you Perth is a small town most of the commercial/advertising campaigns are shot in Sydney & Melbourne
I spoke with one of the directors at the acmp and he mentioned an interesting story of how 3 different photographers quoted $20,000 - $36,000 & $106,000 for the same 3 day job.
Guess who the client went with ??
That's right the $106,000 quote
What I've gleaned from this is to ask/work with the proposed budget or quote higher than the going rate leaving room for negotiation with the client.
I also believe your quote will reflect your perceived value so not being afraid to be bold in your negotiations, of course taking into account your expenses, overheads, standard/quality of work etc.
I know there are many other things I have not touched on in this brief summary but I'd love to hear from others what/how they factor their quotes for advertising, beauty & commercial campaigns
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It depends so much on location/market that most people here won't be able to give you a useful answer. Example: here in Estonia a typical day rate (inc equipment and studio) is $300-500, and there are no licence fees.
Even in your own location, prices depend on the strength of your folio, the client, usage, etc. You really need to ask around in Perth to get a feeling for the upper and lower limits and decide where you fit in.
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It depends so much on location/market that most people here won't be able to give you a useful answer. Example: here in Estonia a typical day rate (inc equipment and studio) is $3-500, and there are no licence fees.
Even in your own location, prices depend on the strength of your folio, the client, usage, etc. You really need to ask around in Perth to get a feeling for the upper and lower limits and decide where you fit in.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196541\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Those fees sounds about standard and right.
Of course depends on how long they are going to use stuff/Packaging etc... Where etc...
The only bummer is of course like any city you always have the young new guy offering his services for much less just to try and "get" into the market...!!
I usually charge on a Job by Job Basis.
Snook
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It depends so much on location/market that most people here won't be able to give you a useful answer. Example: here in Estonia a typical day rate (inc equipment and studio) is $3-500, and there are no licence fees.
Even in your own location, prices depend on the strength of your folio, the client, usage, etc. You really need to ask around in Perth to get a feeling for the upper and lower limits and decide where you fit in.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196541\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks Graham, I forgot to mention usage, licensing etc.
I've pretty much coined a standard rate I'll work from in future negotiations
But I'd still love to hear how others work on their side of the world
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Those fees sounds about standard and right.
Of course depends on how long they are going to use stuff/Packaging etc... Where etc...
The only bummer is of course like any city you always have the young new guy offering his services for much less just to try and "get" into the market...!!
I usually charge on a Job by Job Basis.
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196543\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Under charging makes bad business sense that doesn't help/support any one in the industry.
I hope this will not emerge as common practice in my side of the world
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I´m an emerging shooter here in madrid as well, but this is what I´ve learned in the past couple of years working in a new market (madrid) and from reading every last morsel on the topic I can find (PDN is a great resource for this type of thing).
When it comes to bidding, your different expense lines can show how you prepare for a shoot. The day rate is normally the last thing they´ll look at. Did you add appropriate fees for catering? What retouching studio do you use? Do you add digital capture fees? Do you use a producer to make sure all things are running smoothly? Do you have a workstation-laptop with a nice screen rented for clients to review the shoot onsite or in the studio? all these things come out in your bids, and show a level of professionalism. And all these things need to appear, and it´s better to have every last detail thought of before the shoot and in the bid. It shows that you know how to plan and that you´re going to solve their problems, not create a new one by not being prepared.
It may also be that the highest bidder for that job was also THAT good and the production level that they bring to the shoot is something the client is looking for.
There are a million reasons why a client won´t use you, but price isn´t the end all. It´s how you present the price, the level of production the client needs and how you show them that you´re going to resolve their needs for images in the smoothest way possible.
The worst is when a client asks for a bid and isn´t 100% sure what they need. I had a client needing shots and the number of locations I was to shoot at wasn´t nailed down so I had to create a bid that reflected the situation. X euros for x locations on top of a base rate + incidentals-expenses+usage (and that had to be shown per shot used since the number of shots wasn´t nailed down either...).
That´s one thing I noticed changing markets from Chicago to Spain. Here people can be more relaxed and easy going and when you need concrete information it can get hairy. And every situation is going to be different and their understanding of usage, etc is going to be different. That´s maybe the hardest part of the whole thing. Feeling out the clients for their needs, interests, understanding of the industry, and interpersonal relationships can be the difference between winning the bid or not.
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Those fees sounds about standard and right.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196543\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Are you kidding? They are the lowest fees in any country I have heard of.
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Are you kidding? They are the lowest fees in any country I have heard of.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196566\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am sure they pay great in Estonia...:+}
Snook
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Are you kidding? They are the lowest fees in any country I have heard of.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196566\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Right! Graham, please stay there. Do not come over here with these kind of fees please
Point is that it is very difficult to mention a day rate for someone that is working at another location and probably in another type of work as well.
I alread found pretty big differences between Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany and the UK and these are countries that aren't even that far apart. Even differences in between acceptance levels in provinces within these countries.
Someone mentioned, the importance of explaining what the level and kind of service they can expect from you. I guess that is where I agree.
To be frank, it is my wife that handles the business part of my work because she is really good at that. She can be brutally direct and where I might back down because I just want to do the work she will get the maximum out of the assignment while still being loved and accepted by the clients. Also by exactly mentioning what the clients will get and what they have to pay for she prevents aggravation and ensures a continous stream of assignments from the same companies. Over the years we have stripped everything into numbers where clients can start very cheap and add as much service as the want at a price.
The times we cannot do that I charge a flat hourly fee of 75euros/hour plus expenses (appr. 115USD/Hour). Even those rates cannot just be used by anyone doing something, I find some lines of work these rates are easily accepted while in other parts of the market they can never hire you and rates are below 50euro/hour.
Anyway, a long story to tell you I can't tell you that much
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BTW, I recently got my hands on the results of a 150K euros job which were nice but did make me realize I am doing something wrong because they were not that nice and some images were even downright sloppy and bad. I would never have dared to drop these kind of results on a job with that kind of budget.
These people obviously had their sales pitch well under control. It just shows, the way you sell something is not un-important.
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here in Beijing a day rate of $1500 is common, top pros charge more, which maybe $3000-5000, but very rarely goes beyond that.
Thanks Graham, I forgot to mention usage, licensing etc.
I've pretty much coined a standard rate I'll work from in future negotiations
But I'd still love to hear how others work on their side of the world
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196544\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I was under the impression (at least a decade and a half ago when I was getting paid to shoot), photographers charged for rights and usage of images, not "day rate". Maybe that's something old or just something that came about in the US. Any APA or ASMP members around that can comment and get me up to speed in the 21 century?
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I was under the impression (at least a decade and a half ago when I was getting paid to shoot), photographers charged for rights and usage of images, not "day rate". Maybe that's something old or just something that came about in the US. Any APA or ASMP members around that can comment and get me up to speed in the 21 century?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The day rate doesn't mean much next to usage on a commercial shoot in major US markets. I (roughly) figured out what it costs me just to be in business on a daily basis. I build in some profit and some to cover the days I'm not charging a day rate, but really I make money from usage. The only time the day rate really comes into play is when shooting for small boutiques, as their usage is so low as to be negligable.
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The day rate doesn't mean much next to usage on a commercial shoot in major US markets. I (roughly) figured out what it costs me just to be in business on a daily basis. I build in some profit and some to cover the days I'm not charging a day rate, but really I make money from usage. The only time the day rate really comes into play is when shooting for small boutiques, as their usage is so low as to be negligable.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196590\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Of course, in the UK, the shooting fee normally includes base usage (1yr/2uses/1territory), so the calculations would be different in the UK, compared with the US.
www.the-aop.org
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The "day rate" or work for hire figure which I think is really bad for photographers was the norm here in Colombia. A few of us working profesionals got together made and association and turned everything around. We talked most of the working pros, especially in the advertising and editorial world to join and we became very succesful. Now we not only charge for our creative fees + expenses, but also for licensing which is accounted as time of use, countries or regions of use, and media where it is used.
Fees do vary a lot depending on how bad people need the job and depending of course on your level of skill. Digital photography in its downside has brought a lot of people allured by the glittery world of photographers and for what others might think is easy money. On the surface DSLRS are less intimidating and more accesible than the bigger format cameras of the past necessary for high IQ. Maybe that is the reason. The uncertainty of undeveloped film is no longer a risk barrier.And due to immediate image feedback for clients and agencies, I also see some photographers are starting to become more like camera operators than anything else.
I strive for being an author, hopefully with a unique way of seeing the world and putting in my pictures, instead of being hired because of the camera and the basic skills of barely handling it. An artistic personal discourse, or however you want to call it, is what the photographer should charge for.
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I was under the impression (at least a decade and a half ago when I was getting paid to shoot), photographers charged for rights and usage of images, not "day rate". Maybe that's something old or just something that came about in the US. Any APA or ASMP members around that can comment and get me up to speed in the 21 century?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Should have mentioned the photographers BUR (BASE USAGE RATE Refers to the photographer’s fee negotiated for the shoot) may include 1-2 PRINCIPAL MEDIA or limited extra use, outside the client’s original commission.
Usage may be negotiated exclusive of the BUR depending on the agreement.
Hope that makes sense
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Are you kidding? They are the lowest fees in any country I have heard of.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196566\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Now I feel
I'm going to have to move to NY
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Day rate for me and the colleagues I know of on MFDB's in Oslo is around $2200,- $2800,- thats including everything from equipment to studio, but not other costs like props, personell, make up artists, assistants, etc.... it's also not including 25 % "MVA" sales tax. I did a three day shoot back to back from 9 am to 10 pm a little while back, and the price paid for me alone with my equipment was $10700,-
Licencing fees vary videly, on small scale product shoots its almost never used, but on large advertising campains can amount to around the same as the day rates for around one year of free use. Complex usage and licencing programs are almost never used, (except for the very top-top been around for ages photogs that I know of in Norway. )
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Should have mentioned the photographers BUR (BASE USAGE RATE Refers to the photographer’s fee negotiated for the shoot) may include 1-2 PRINCIPAL MEDIA or limited extra use, outside the client’s original commission.
Usage may be negotiated exclusive of the BUR depending on the agreement.
Hope that makes sense
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196601\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Don't know where I went wrong but it is obvious that those are basic rates and depend on many things.
But the prices sounds right for my market.
Basic rate for me also means per day catalogue rate as well.. Advertising is usually more OBVIOUSLY depending How long it will appear, where it will appear etc...
When I acknowledge that the rates were about right, That is what I meant. basic day rate and then from there they go up depending on what it is for.. This should be obvious, sorry if I did not finish my statement!
In any case it will vary and it depends a lot on many factors.
NOTE that many added + Expenses...:+}
SNook
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Day rate for me and the colleagues I know of on MFDB's in Oslo is around $2200,- $2800,- thats including everything from equipment to studio, but not other costs like props, personell, make up artists, assistants, etc.... it's also not including 25 % "MVA" sales tax. I did a three day shoot back to back from 9 am to 10 pm a little while back, and the price paid for me alone with my equipment was $10700,-
Licencing fees vary videly, on small scale product shoots its almost never used, but on large advertising campains can amount to around the same as the day rates for around one year of free use. Complex usage and licencing programs are almost never used, (except for the very top-top been around for ages photogs that I know of in Norway. )
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196603\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you work from 9 am to 10 pm that's 13 hours. Here in sweden the day rate is 8 hours. So what you got paid is like 39 hours here. Almost 5 days. So it's almost the same because here a normal 8 hour day rate could be about $1300. About 162 dollar per hour including 25% taxes.
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If you work from 9 am to 10 pm that's 13 hours. Here in sweden the day rate is 8 hours. So what you got paid is like 39 hours here. Almost 5 days. So it's almost the same because here a normal 8 hour day rate could be about $1300. About 162 dollar per hour including 25% taxes.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196648\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's a tough one for me...
I charge my client for the day but if we go over an hour or so, which happens often, "We" here would not charge an extra hour.. especially with a regular year round client..
It's really hard where to draw the line but i would feel like I was taking advantage of a client charging for the hour extra when they are paying a day rate.
In South America there is no such thing as 12 hours...:+}
It is when we finish we finish. Not the best work ethics but that is the way it is... They have a "take it or leave it" kind of attitude here.
Just last year they came up with a type of Grip Union here that protects the Movie and Commercial people here, Otherwise they use to work 24/7 practically and that is no joke. but it will be a long while if never before they have those "laws" for Photography shoots!
Snook
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That's a tough one for me...
I charge my client for the day but if we go over an hour or so, which happens often, "We" here would not charge an extra hour.. especially with a regular year round client..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196653\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The very same goes in Norway, in particular for returning clients where you have built up a relationship of "giving and taking".
If you work from 9 am to 10 pm that's 13 hours. Here in sweden the day rate is 8 hours. So what you got paid is like 39 hours here. Almost 5 days. So it's almost the same because here a normal 8 hour day rate could be about $1300. About 162 dollar per hour including 25% taxes.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196648\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I get a different result than about 162 pr. hour... If my math skills are not as poor as my photography skills (http://www.advrider.com/forums/images/smilies/baldy.gif)
39/10700 = $274 per hour for the job, about half of that is equipment and rental costs, the rest is net before taxes. The hourly charge would be $342,5 with sales tax of 25 % included.
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As an emerging photographer I'm at the stage where I'm feeling my way around the negotiation table with potential clients.
In a previous issue of Capture (an Australian Pro-Photography Magazine) a standard industry commercial day rate was quoted/estimated at around $2700-$3600 a day plus expenses. (this was based on research from working photographers in the U.S. I believe)
After making my own queries (checking with local talent) here in Perth the rate is fairly dismal some where around the $2200-$2500 a day + expenses.
Mind you Perth is a small town most of the commercial/advertising campaigns are shot in Sydney & Melbourne
I spoke with one of the directors at the acmp and he mentioned an interesting story of how 3 different photographers quoted $20,000 - $36,000 & $106,000 for the same 3 day job.
Guess who the client went with ??
That's right the $106,000 quote
What I've gleaned from this is to ask/work with the proposed budget or quote higher than the going rate leaving room for negotiation with the client.
I also believe your quote will reflect your perceived value so not being afraid to be bold in your negotiations, of course taking into account your expenses, overheads, standard/quality of work etc.
I know there are many other things I have not touched on in this brief summary but I'd love to hear from others what/how they factor their quotes for advertising, beauty & commercial campaigns
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196538\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi
Any idea what the job was?
Denis
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As for overhours I never have my client sitting on a cab meter, but I do try to politely reason with my client to end the shoot at max. 12 hrs. A good argument is that tired people don't make quality work, which is what one is hired for.
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Hi
Any idea what the job was?
Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196664\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry Denis, in hindsight I should have asked what the job was
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The very same goes in Norway, in particular for returning clients where you have built up a relationship of "giving and taking".
I get a different result than about 162 pr. hour... If my math skills are not as poor as my photography skills
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For a UK perspective, see the "Fees Special" newsletter here: http://www.redeye.org.uk/redeye/archive_news.asp (http://www.redeye.org.uk/redeye/archive_news.asp)
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i think my best advice is to split the quote up in as many singular items as possible. quote for everything reasonably. i charge for my own equipment or usage of my studio about 75% of what the local rent prices are, which still is enough to make some money just by using my own stuff. my creative fee per day is rather low with about €1300 - 1800, depending on the client, that includes editorial use. commercial usage is somewhere between 0,6x to 1,8x the creatve fee, roughly followig the BFF (a german association of photographers) guidelines.
my creative fee is not negotiable once quoted, all the other tids and bits have room for leverage, so i am able to reduce the total quote without ridiculing my first one.
by having a rather lowerish creative fee i do not look expensive, although i am usually more expensive than my competition, but my final income still makes me happy.
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It somewhat depends on what you mean by "emerging photographer". To me that means someone with some talent maybe but with limited experience and portfolio. If that is true, one is unlikely to be able to charge the going rate in an established commercial market. The going rate is not like a minimum wage, but the average rate for established photographers. I live in a small market but do allot of work for clients in big markets. So I have different rates depending on what market the client is coming from. From years of experience I know a client from Chicago expects to pay allot more than a local client and I set my rates accordingly. As a rule of thumb, I want my prices to be seem ridiculously expensive for about 1/3 of the serious inquiries.
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I was under the impression (at least a decade and a half ago when I was getting paid to shoot), photographers charged for rights and usage of images, not "day rate". Maybe that's something old or just something that came about in the US. Any APA or ASMP members around that can comment and get me up to speed in the 21 century?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I would agree with this, being a 20+year member of APA, the term "day rate" should be stricken
from photographers vocabulary. Estimate how many days it will take to shoot and give a creative fee, but do not break it down and describe it as a "day rate". You should have already worked out what you need to survive based on your overhead.. so you know what your break-even "daily fee" has to be or else it is charity work or has some other value to you, but those are your numbers, price by the job, not by your time..
I did a shoot once and we were done by 2 in the afternoon.. the shoot was over and the client enquired about it being so fast.. I told them that it took me 20 years to develope my skills and shoot the way I did, otherwise we would have to work til 7pm. They were happy with that and left. Believe me I have spent way too many nights working "until it was finished".
I price all commercial jobs on usage rights and gauge the image value to the client.
Usually the usage will determine the value of the photograph.. General Motors national campaign vs the local chain of bike shops regional newspaper ads and website..
magazine work is different and if you want editorial you have to play along with that. It has value to me so I weigh it differently than a commercial shoot. I feel that in this age of increased ease to produce pictures and the devaluation of the images we create it is essential to get a handle on the value of the work, both for the client and yourself. It use to bother me being undercut by someone who undersells the shoot, and worse were the marketing managers who couldn't see the visual difference and went for the lower bottom line.. The reason you see the job going to the highest bidder is someone is pushing for a particular photographer and they get their way... and they knew the real value of the shoot and had that budgeted. If you want to estimate with the big boys and girls on a national/international shoot then you had better do your homework and price for everything..a good artbuyer can look over an estimate and see in a moment that you are out of your depth, they will not risk a shoot with you even if the numbers are lower and cheaper for the client.
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I would actually like to know how many days a months you all work.
Here in Asia I have about 15 to 20 projects a month some half days and some full days.
I normally charge here by the photo as I have in house post production and deliver a finished product. Whenever I shoot people or products (about 10% of my work) I tend to charge by day both for shooting and post-production. Usualy fees are much lower than Eur or US, but because of volume I think I do ok.
m*
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I have fluctuating seasons. In the busy period I shoot 5 times a week days most of the time. These periods are February-April and September-November. Days are anywhere in between a couple of hours up to 12hours.
In between these periods I have 1 to 2 days of shooting per week where I also sometimes have a couple of weeks in which I don't work for clients. I always plan to shoot stuff for myself but most of the time I find myself doing work in the house or fixing stuff for my studio, etc..
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I have fluctuating seasons. In the busy period I shoot 5 times a week days most of the time. These periods are February-April and September-November. Days are anywhere in between a couple of hours up to 12hours.
In between these periods I have 1 to 2 days of shooting per week where I also sometimes have a couple of weeks in which I don't work for clients. I always plan to shoot stuff for myself but most of the time I find myself doing work in the house or fixing stuff for my studio, etc..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196948\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No down time here, each year 25% busier than the last
I always hope to have time to shoot for myself...........but then someone calls me
What is strange here as well is that when I look ahead in my diary there are hardly any bookings
as everyone calls up and wants me tomorrow.
m*
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That is the same over here. I have most of my work from the same clients. Some book time ahead at the days they know they will be needing it (the ones that are noticing I am saying no more often ) but many call and want to have me there asap.
I do get busier every year, now to the point where I am thinking about where to go next. Do I want to do more hours of the same kind of work, do I want less but more high profile or do I want to continue in the same manner?
The easiest thing probably would be to continue like this but I am starting to feel like I am in need of doing more sophisticated stuff.
The more relaxed period is excellent to prepare, think over what I am doing and what I want to do, etc... The busy season more than makes up for it.
It would be nice if I could fill the more quiet period with free work or other work. Which I now concentrate on developing.
I notice I really need this period. I could not do catalogue & productshots year round as I do during the season.
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I have fluctuating seasons. In the busy period I shoot 5 times a week days most of the time. These periods are February-April and September-November. Days are anywhere in between a couple of hours up to 12hours.
In between these periods I have 1 to 2 days of shooting per week where I also sometimes have a couple of weeks in which I don't work for clients. I always plan to shoot stuff for myself but most of the time I find myself doing work in the house or fixing stuff for my studio, etc..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196948\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
+1 but somehow the weekends also seem to disappear during busy months...
In slow months, I could do lots of non-commercial stuff for a good price, but choose not to as I really do not need it nor think it works with the "personal brand".
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I would actually like to know how many days a months you all work.
Here in Asia I have about 15 to 20 projects a month some half days and some full days.
I normally charge here by the photo as I have in house post production and deliver a finished product. Whenever I shoot people or products (about 10% of my work) I tend to charge by day both for shooting and post-production. Usualy fees are much lower than Eur or US, but because of volume I think I do ok.
m*
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196891\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Marc, I prefer to not shoot back to back days-just getting old I guess, which limits me to two or three days a week shooting, but when you add to that a couple of days per shooting day for file processing, a day for scouting another day for paperwork etc., you end up with about 6 days a week, averaging 10 hours a day. That is the routine for my busy season which is about 8 months of the year.
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To be frank, it is my wife that handles the business part of my work"... I WANT A WIFE LIKE THAT ... LOL
Right! Graham, please stay there. Do not come over here with these kind of fees please
Point is that it is very difficult to mention a day rate for someone that is working at another location and probably in another type of work as well.
I alread found pretty big differences between Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany and the UK and these are countries that aren't even that far apart. Even differences in between acceptance levels in provinces within these countries.
Someone mentioned, the importance of explaining what the level and kind of service they can expect from you. I guess that is where I agree.
To be frank, it is my wife that handles the business part of my work because she is really good at that. She can be brutally direct and where I might back down because I just want to do the work she will get the maximum out of the assignment while still being loved and accepted by the clients. Also by exactly mentioning what the clients will get and what they have to pay for she prevents aggravation and ensures a continous stream of assignments from the same companies. Over the years we have stripped everything into numbers where clients can start very cheap and add as much service as the want at a price.
The times we cannot do that I charge a flat hourly fee of 75euros/hour plus expenses (appr. 115USD/Hour). Even those rates cannot just be used by anyone doing something, I find some lines of work these rates are easily accepted while in other parts of the market they can never hire you and rates are below 50euro/hour.
Anyway, a long story to tell you I can't tell you that much
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196578\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Yes, I am a very fortunate & happy man
No kidding, it is a very good combination. It allows her to be very frank, direct and sometimes firm where I need to be able to remain on a good foot to be able to continue to work with clients.
She is also a pitbull in collecting outstanding bills. In the Netherlands companies have one of the worst payment policies in Europe according studies. My biggest client makes it a sport to wait as long as possible with paying (they always do pay). I am kept in the dark about these things otherwise I just might explode during a shoot with them which is un-productive I have been told.
Next to all that, did I mention she can style garments in a way that most other stylists cannot? We actually form a very good team together. We found it a very good way to be able to spend time together as well as doing something we both like.
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I can tell you that in Asia they have almost all a wife like that!
Thierry
To be frank, it is my wife that handles the business part of my work"... I WANT A WIFE LIKE THAT ... LOL
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197027\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I can tell you that in Asia they have almost all a wife like that!
biggrin.gif
Thierry
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I can tell you that in Asia they have almost all a wife like that!
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197032\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hmmm....... I have to show this comment to my wife then.
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funny! not later than last week I was in your country, Singapore, and have been visiting a big studio with our distributor, since the photographer/owner is interested in the new Hy6 system.
When it came to discuss about prices and quotation, the photographer suddenly pointed to his wife and said: "she is running the business, speak to her".
I don't take this negatively, don't misunderstand me. I would love to have a wife taking care of such, but am not so lucky.
Thierry
Hmmm....... I have to show this comment to my wife then.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197061\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Yes, I am a very fortunate & happy man
No kidding, it is a very good combination. It allows her to be very frank, direct and sometimes firm where I need to be able to remain on a good foot to be able to continue to work with clients.
She is also a pitbull in collecting outstanding bills. In the Netherlands companies have one of the worst payment policies in Europe according studies. My biggest client makes it a sport to wait as long as possible with paying (they always do pay). I am kept in the dark about these things otherwise I just might explode during a shoot with them which is un-productive I have been told.
Next to all that, did I mention she can style garments in a way that most other stylists cannot? We actually form a very good team together. We found it a very good way to be able to spend time together as well as doing something we both like.
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I have a similar arrangement. My wife is an MUA. I hire her to work on all of my editorials, but not commercial work. On commercial jobs I like to keep it more professional, because as a married couple we discard our professional masks in dealing with one another. One thing I notice, and this is funny, she will just walk into a shot and fix a wrinkle or fly aways etc without asking. I'll see her walk into the frame. She won't listen to me on set, which is really funny sometimes! She only does this with me, not any other photogs. She doesn't fool with the business side but does most of my marketing. She was an AD at a small ad agency in a past life, so she has a great eye and is really great with color. Its fun to share a vision for a shoot and make it happen together.
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My wife is Japanese, but I could not afford to hire here. In japan, since the times of samurai the wife was the one who managed all aspects related to money. The man basically had to know how to use the katana really well or he would loose his head...
But seriously, the business part of photography is so different to the other part that a lot of photographers have problems being really good at both.
I give in to clients too easily, and it is a mistake.
There was a scandal recently here in New York when the Governor of the state was found out spending $80,000 on sex services from a prostitution ring. One of the girls, talking to the press was asked what did she do of extraordinary for charging the way she was (don't remember, but it was something like thousands of dollars per hour) and she said that "the service is exactly the same, but I get more respect with high fees)
I thought that it may also apply to us photographers...
I can tell you that in Asia they have almost all a wife like that!
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197032\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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One thing I notice, and this is funny, she will just walk into a shot and fix a wrinkle or fly aways etc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197067\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry this might be irrelevant but it reminded me of a joke I read some where......
How do you know you're a photographer?
When you turn to the person next to you in an elevator and carefully pat down stray fly away hairs
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Sorry this might be irrelevant but it reminded me of a joke I read some where......
How do you know you're a photographer?
When you turn to the person next to you in an elevator and carefully pat down stray fly away hairs
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197077\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Too true.
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funny! not later than last week I was in your country, Singapore, and have been visiting a big studio with our distributor, since the photographer/owner is interested in the new Hy6 system.
When it came to discuss about prices and quotation, the photographer suddenly pointed to his wife and said: "she is running the business, speak to her".
I don't take this negatively, don't misunderstand me. I would love to have a wife taking care of such, but am not so lucky.
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197065\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually, just joking with you. I would like to confirm that THAT is actually very true. Over here there are many husband and wife teams, with their roles exactly as you said. I didn't know this is unique here, I tot it might be the same all over the world.
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I work with my wife on 100% of assignments. Matter of fact we spend 24 hours/365 for the past 12 years. I works great for us. She is a very savvy business women, great computer tech and an ex model. All retouching for my studio goes through her hands. We separated areas of knowledge so there is no need to cross lines ever. I would not be able to work a day without her and my work would never look the same.
http://AndreNapier.com (http://AndreNapier.com)