Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: peegeenyc on May 03, 2008, 09:06:54 am
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I own both 1Ds3 and Contax 645 P45+ caneras, BUT half the time I travel for myself, or am out and about, I never bother to take either with me. This is becoming ridiculous now, and I have to find some way to make it work.
With film, for years I had Plaubel 670 cameras, which folded up to the size of a paperback book, but popped out to use a decent Nikon 80mm lens for on-the-hoof 6x7cm images. Far better than an MF DSLR Contax or Rollei or Blad for such casual take it everywhere use.
now with digital there is little choice, despite paying tens of thousands of $ more.
I look at the Alpa TC, but... no rangefinder is a put off, and like so many of these types of camera, is really designed for wide angle work. Like Cambo etc. where I'd rather have standard focal lengths, and focusing indication.
anyone got fresh ideas? I'm missing some of the joy and spontaneity of photography because of these burdensome pro cameras. Shall I just wait for a 5D2 and use that, though leaving my relatively small Phase digital back at home while do that seem somehow silly...
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I own both 1Ds3 and Contax 645 P45+ caneras, BUT half the time I travel for myself, or am out and about, I never bother to take either with me. This is becoming ridiculous now, and I have to find some way to make it work.
With film, for years I had Plaubel 670 cameras, which folded up to the size of a paperback book, but popped out to use a decent Nikon 80mm lens for on-the-hoof 6x7cm images. Far better than an MF DSLR Contax or Rollei or Blad for such casual take it everywhere use.
now with digital there is little choice, despite paying tens of thousands of $ more.
I look at the Alpa TC, but... no rangefinder is a put off, and like so many of these types of camera, is really designed for wide angle work. Like Cambo etc. where I'd rather have standard focal lengths, and focusing indication.
anyone got fresh ideas? I'm missing some of the joy and spontaneity of photography because of these burdensome pro cameras. Shall I just wait for a 5D2 and use that, though leaving my relatively small Phase digital back at home while do that seem somehow silly...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193290\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Do you need to buy a third camera ?? 5DII ?? why can't you make do with the 1Ds MK III as your walk around cam ?? is it to heavy, cumbersome for you ?? it can't be any heavier than Contax 645 P45+ combo ?
Sorry I don't get it
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Why wait for the 5D2 if you can have a 5D for next to nothing at the moment? I am a 25years Nikon user, very happy with my current D300 but at the prices the 5D is currently going I am very tempted to get one
These 'small' cameras I do take with me, my H and Digiflex I don't. At least not that quickly.
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Mamiya ZD camera
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I think the obvious choice would be a Leica M8. Of course is not a MFDB, not even a DSLR, but there's no camera with this size that can offer its image quality.
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I think the obvious choice would be a Leica M8. Of course is not a MFDB, not even a DSLR, but there's no camera with this size that can offer its image quality.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=193315\")
The M8 has it's positives and in some ways works much like a medium format back in that it is not a camera that does everything, but what it does it does well.
It's won't produced 6000 ppi images of a model's eyelashes from 200 yards, but it will force you into seeing and working in a different manner. Sometimes slower, sometimes, fast, but it is an involving camera.
I pretty much keep the 28mm on the camera and actually use it for things that I would never think of using even a moderate wide angle for.
This session was shot mostly medium format and I would never think of shooting a "beauty" image with a wide angle, though with the m-8 it somehow worked.
[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/m/image/beauty2bg.jpg]http://www.russellrutherford.com/m/image/beauty2bg.jpg[/url]
the M-8 is not an all around camera. It won't go to 640 iso without noise, and underexposed a lot of noise, though it also will not look mushy or soft, if focused it's sharp, crisp and has a great contrast range.
When I start a session we have tables of cameras, medium format, 35mm, and it looks somewhat impressive, but nothing draws the type of response from a subject as pulling out that little camera.
It seems relaxed, easy and most of all intimate.
I think it's a great camera for shooting people and one that involves the subject without intimidating.
I must admit, never coming from a rangefinder, it took me a long time to get used to the focus and the actually functionality of the camera but now it is second nature and something that I always am glad to just throw over a shoulder before I leave my door.
The downside is the metering is just bloody awful unless all the conditions are right, but then again I've never used a meter for anything other than a get close type of look.
the upside is it's a Leica true and genuine and it has a all that lecia dna built in. This last statement probably won't make sense and in a technical side by side comparision won't mean a lot of pixel pushers, but if you just want to feel good about what your shooting give one a try.
I find it very special.
[attachment=6399:attachment]
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JR
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Alpa makes a few good options and the 12 TC (Travel Compact) may fit you bill.
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products...&detailpage=135 (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products/cameras&detailpage=135)
Cambo also makes the WDC, but I'm not sure if it come is a Contax mount or not. I'll contact them to find out.
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year (http://www.captureintegration.com)
877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell
Sign up for our Newsletter (http://visitor.constantcontact.com/email.jsp?m=1101868815210&p=oi) | Read Our Latest Newsletter (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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... and i like to carry around my contax 645 with wlf, the 55mm lens and an e75 back. its a small package and i love it. without the prism the 645 loose some hundred gramms and the 55mm lens is much smaller as the 45mm for its aperture for 3,5. shutter speeds till 1/30 are sharp and finally allows the new electronic in the sinar back real iso800 with moderate noise.
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I think it's a great camera for shooting people and one that involves the subject without intimidating.
This is what it's supposed the M was made for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuXcm35m50Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuXcm35m50Y)
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This is what it's supposed the M was made for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuXcm35m50Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuXcm35m50Y)
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It's tradition to think of a Leica for street and PJ work and obviously that seems to be the intended goal.
Then again it's a camera that in almost any situation changes how the subject reacts. It's not intimidating, it's small, it has to be focused which does take some degree of throught it's not extrememly fast per frame, the lenses are sharp and contrasty and all this combination produces something special and intimate.
It's funny, I have a 90, 50, 35, 28 and never use anything but the 28. In fact I don't even carry the other lenses anymore, for me it just seems like a forced waste of time to try to shoot with a long lens on a camera that requires you to get close to the subject and be part of the actual moment.
Even in set up scenarios it disarms the subject.
[attachment=6415:attachment]
Though admitedly the m8 is usually used for this
[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/paris_production/]http://www.russellrutherford.com/paris_production/[/url]
It's interesting that there are threads that are running 1,700 deep comparing the pixel quality of one system to another, even down to the jpeg compression, which absolutley has nothing to do with why or how anyone would use a camera.
In my view, to really explore photography is to sometimes put the wrong camera in the wrong situations and see what shakes loose.
It's always interesting.
JR
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Talking about disarming people. I liked to do street work with the 503 and DB. People for some reason find the 'big' black box something from another era and people that use it are obviously weird but harmless
I sold the 503 but am thinking about getting another one to do just that again, standing in the middle of a busy street and have the people walk up to me and shoot them.
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The M8 has it's positives and in some ways works much like a medium format back in that it is not a camera that does everything, but what it does it does well.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193316\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you use a Leica you need a backup. I've gone through body failure after body failure. The old Leica DNA was one of complete reliability, the new one is a temperamental primadonna. Apart from totally dead cameras, there are lockups, accidental battery discharges, you name it. James of course has ample backup
Edmund
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Getting back to MFDB + light and small...
One thing that gets me with the options in MFDB is that I have looked at the Silvestri Flexicam more for studio and outdoor tripod work, but then I figured that I would also like to have something really compact, but still use the MFDB and those fantastic APO Digital lenses from the Silvestri... so maybe add an Alpa TC to that, except that the Silvestri takes it's own Silvestri bayonet mount and the Alpa needs it's own helical focus mount. So sharing the same lens between 2 systems appears to be quite impractical, yet I can't afford to get 2 of every lens!
What's the solution? Just forget about those 2 systems and go buy a Mamiya AFD II instead???
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Thank you! Well said and great information. It is so much more valuable to get off those wordy pixel peeping comments and actually discuss photography, taking photos and really using cameras to actually take pictures.
It's interesting that there are threads that are running 1,700 deep comparing the pixel quality of one system to another, even down to the jpeg compression, which absolutley has nothing to do with why or how anyone would use a camera.
In my view, to really explore photography is to sometimes put the wrong camera in the wrong situations and see what shakes loose.
It's always interesting.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193449\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Getting back to MFDB + light and small...
One thing that gets me with the options in MFDB is that I have looked at the Silvestri Flexicam more for studio and outdoor tripod work, but then I figured that I would also like to have something really compact, but still use the MFDB and those fantastic APO Digital lenses from the Silvestri... so maybe add an Alpa TC to that, except that the Silvestri takes it's own Silvestri bayonet mount and the Alpa needs it's own helical focus mount. So sharing the same lens between 2 systems appears to be quite impractical, yet I can't afford to get 2 of every lens!
What's the solution? Just forget about those 2 systems and go buy a Mamiya AFD II instead???
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193507\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
there is a solution actually
try the Silvestri Bicam with a fixed lensboard+helical mount setup.
You can get the lenses mounted in a helicoid which is then attached on the appropriate bayonet,and then attached onto the proper lensboard
I was interested in this option myself but didn't have the time to try to decipher what lensboard and what bayonet goes with what lens.
When you want to use the Silvestri as a bellows camera you just attach it to the Flexi Maxi bellows or the Flexi Bellows. No need to change mounts, as the bayonet mount on the lensboard is the same mount as the bellows attachment
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what about an Alpa SWA and digital back? One camera.
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If 35mm - M_ (7 if film ok, 8 if not). The Ms are wonderful to use. I also sued an M7 loaner for some time it just wanted to carry it everywhere.
if MF film ok - what of the Mamiya M7II?
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If you need focus indication, then you are limited to Mamiya 7II, or the Fuji rangefinders (645, 6x7 and 6x9)
If you need to change lenses, I think you are stuck with the Mamiya 7II -- which by the way is a fine camera capable of stunning image quality. IMHO, DSLR's have yet to match it.
Actually is you've gots buckets of cash for the body and lenses, take a look at the Arca-Swiss R-Line with an electronic viewfinder/focusing aid. Takes Schneider/Rodenstock digital lenses. Very nice and very erxpensive (US$5-6K for the body and you know how much the lenses are).
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In medium format there is really no rangefinder option - and for compactness the Leica M8 or (horrors) the G9 would do fine.
If you really want to use the phase back you can try the Alpa TC (or SWA) and get one of those old fashioned distance finders. Combine it with a very small Voightlander light meter on a Voightlander double cold shoe on one side of the camera, a Voightlander finder for your lens and away you go (be sure to leave $7,000 on the table though)!
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Cambo also makes the WDC, but I'm not sure if it come is a Contax mount or not. I'll contact them to find out.
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year (http://www.captureintegration.com)
877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell
Sign up for our Newsletter (http://visitor.constantcontact.com/email.jsp?m=1101868815210&p=oi) | Read Our Latest Newsletter (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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[/quote]
Sorry for the delay in the reply, but I just got a response from Cambo. The Cambo WDC (WideCompact) does come in a Contax mount.
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
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It's funny, I have a 90, 50, 35, 28 and never use anything but the 28. In fact I don't even carry the other lenses anymore, for me it just seems like a forced waste of time to try to shoot with a long lens on a camera that requires you to get close to the subject and be part of the actual moment.
In my view, to really explore photography is to sometimes put the wrong camera in the wrong situations and see what shakes loose.
It's always interesting.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193449\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The 28 with the M8 becomes, more or less, a 35 due to its crop factor and this always has been the "classical" focal lenght used by the most renowned practitioners of the M style of shooting . I think that using somenthing longer than a 50 is strange with a RF and it's in the wide angle area where this kind of camera really shines.
To put the "wrong" tool into the "right" context usually offers intersting results if one is capable of just turnning the supossed disadvantages or flaws generated into "carachteristic virtues". Every intelligent and capable artist knows how to deal with this.
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I'm not shure there is anything. I have Makina 67, when folded it's nearly pocketable, of course you need to carry film around as well so a bit more bulk.
I have actually gone the other way and bought a folding 5x4 rangefinder, I have a drum scanner that can hold 1/2 doz sheets at a time, so I just set it scanning in the background. I would like an A3 flatbed, much easier and quicker to set up a batch.
So what you gain at the sharp end for taking you loose at the blunt end having to scan etc
I think small and MFDB are away off yet, Sigma has only just had a go at a large small sensor in a pocket camera.
A Mamiya ZD is the nearest.
Kevin.
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Many replies already... suggesting to get ALOT of new gear...
I agree, the Mamiya 7ii is lovely (I have it ), small, light and will will beat either of your cameras for compactness/light weight.
Apart from that... perhaps simplest solution is to for either of your cameras get among the smallest sized lens available?
Say the Canon 50mm 1.4 or an 80mm for your Contax??? They will help you get lovely photos
Regards
Anders
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I own both 1Ds3 and Contax 645 P45+ caneras, BUT half the time I travel for myself, or am out and about, I never bother to take either with me. This is becoming ridiculous now, and I have to find some way to make it work.
With film, for years I had Plaubel 670 cameras, which folded up to the size of a paperback book, but popped out to use a decent Nikon 80mm lens for on-the-hoof 6x7cm images. Far better than an MF DSLR Contax or Rollei or Blad for such casual take it everywhere use.
now with digital there is little choice, despite paying tens of thousands of $ more.
I look at the Alpa TC, but... no rangefinder is a put off, and like so many of these types of camera, is really designed for wide angle work. Like Cambo etc. where I'd rather have standard focal lengths, and focusing indication.
anyone got fresh ideas? I'm missing some of the joy and spontaneity of photography because of these burdensome pro cameras. Shall I just wait for a 5D2 and use that, though leaving my relatively small Phase digital back at home while do that seem somehow silly...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193290\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
how about just getting an imacon scanner for your 6x7 film. I love the quality it produces, is not as harsh as a drum scanner.
and much nicer images than a 5D2 I'm sure
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The 28 with the M8 becomes, more or less, a 35 due to its crop factor and this always has been the "classical" focal lenght used by the most renowned practitioners of the M style of shooting . I think that using somenthing longer than a 50 is strange with a RF and it's in the wide angle area where this kind of camera really shines.
To put the "wrong" tool into the "right" context usually offers intersting results if one is capable of just turnning the supossed disadvantages or flaws generated into "carachteristic virtues". Every intelligent and capable artist knows how to deal with this.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193825\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
For current in production digital cameras only two the Canon and the Nikon D3 are truly full frame.
Early on with my switich to digital it took a while to get used to this, as an 80 looked like an 80 but cropped like a 110 etc. etc.
Yes the 28 on the M8 crops like a 35mm but doesn't "look" like a 35mm on a FF 35mm film camera, not that this is really good or bad, it's just different.
I've gone the full gamut of cameras, from 1.5 crops of the D2x (which I could never get used to ) to the p30/p21 1.3 crops which I don't really notice anymore.
though to get back to the original posters walk around camera needs, I also find it kind of strange to walk around with a medium format camera, or even a big dslr. It's so intrusive and quite honestly going out on a Sunday in NY with a Canon around my shoulder makes me feel somewhat like a tourists. (not that there is anything wrong with being a tourist )
When you look at all the camera companies that have come, gone and morphed into digital the one company that seemed to miss the boat was Contax. Imagine if they had partnered early on with somebody like phase. There could have been a digital G2, a real working dslr N and leaf shutters on the 645.
If that had happened it really would have been the only company that covered just about all the professional and serious amateur territory and the conversations we have today would be much different.
JR
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Talking about disarming people. I liked to do street work with the 503 and DB. People for some reason find the 'big' black box something from another era and people that use it are obviously weird but harmless
I used to get that all the time with my old Rollei.
For pure simplicity and light weight, it's hard to beat a TLR. A rangefinder 6X6 camera also can be had at barely any larger than a 35mm rangefinder. Both allow for quick and unobtrusive shooting.