Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: mshea on March 08, 2008, 06:22:59 pm
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Hi Folks,
My first posting here. I'm quite interested in the Silvestri Flexicam as a possible solution for a lightweight, backpackable view camera to be used with a digital back, and I gather an adaptor is also available for Canon EOS bodies. I'd also use it for simple interior/exterior architectural work. Do any of you have experience with the Flexicam? The whole view camera world is new territory for me, so there may be other lightweight models out there which might fill the bill. In that regard, I've read here that there's a new lightweight Cambo that will be released soon.
Thanks for any info you can provide!
Merrill
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Hi Folks,
My first posting here. I'm quite interested in the Silvestri Flexicam as a possible solution for a lightweight, backpackable view camera to be used with a digital back, and I gather an adaptor is also available for Canon EOS bodies. I'd also use it for simple interior/exterior architectural work. Do any of you have experience with the Flexicam? The whole view camera world is new territory for me, so there may be other lightweight models out there which might fill the bill. In that regard, I've read here that there's a new lightweight Cambo that will be released soon.
Thanks for any info you can provide!
Merrill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180091\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm using a Bicam with Flexi Maxi Bellows now. the Flexicam's a more compact version of that with a smaller sliding back and different attachment system
It's been really enjoyable using my Bicam although the shift from left to right could benefit from going beyond 15mm...
lovely to be able to use swings and tilts on the front standard too.
I focus using the standard 4x magnifier which is ok, and I have an 8x square loupe also just in case.
The bayonets for the Flexicam are surprisingly pricey though, compared to the Bicam
I'm not sure if they have a shift sliding back for the Flexicam but it seems to be more worthwhile to get that if it only costs abit more...compared to just a standard sliding back
btw, using a rodenstock 45mm f/4.5 and a rodenstock 35mm HR and I have no problems using all the movements with both lenses
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Just remember, the rear standard is fixed, isn't it?
(I was playing with one for a while at a show, couple of weeks ago.)
However, it is a very compact solution compared with others.
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My flexicam arrived already a few weeks ago... but i'm still waiting for the f...ing adaptor to put my Zeiss lenses on it. They send the wrong one, there's a long adapter for the bicam and a short for the flexicam. It's really difficult to get answers about the flexicam, maybe the best thing is to phone Silvestri in Italy.
Not sure if the Flexicam allows to put Canon bodies on it, maybe the Bicam does.
What to say about the Flexicam, it really well built, as much as my old Flexbody was. I did some tests with a 35mmXL, which i will only buy next year, and i was quite amazed. Still have to find out if i can put a 120mm on it for tabletop, or if i have to get a 105mm.
tom
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Yes, my interest was mostly studio, so had sort of decided to go with a full view camera where I can control both front and rear standards. It's lovely and compact though, compared with any of the more normal view camera solutions, and I might still buy it.
As regards putting a Canon body on it, don't know, but Cambo do the X1, which would provide similar functionality for a dSLR body.
J
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the f...ing adaptor[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180180\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
As in Nikon F, I am interested in reprots of that in use
S
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My flexicam arrived already a few weeks ago... but i'm still waiting for the f...ing adaptor to put my Zeiss lenses on it. They send the wrong one, there's a long adapter for the bicam and a short for the flexicam. It's really difficult to get answers about the flexicam, maybe the best thing is to phone Silvestri in Italy.
Not sure if the Flexicam allows to put Canon bodies on it, maybe the Bicam does.
What to say about the Flexicam, it really well built, as much as my old Flexbody was. I did some tests with a 35mmXL, which i will only buy next year, and i was quite amazed. Still have to find out if i can put a 120mm on it for tabletop, or if i have to get a 105mm.
tom
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=180180\")
[a href=\"http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/news_eng/news.htm]http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/news_eng/news.htm[/url]
There is an adapter for Canon cameras.
105mm is the maximum extension but you can add a longer bayonet that allows more extension I believe
Silvia Silvestre is the person to talk to, she knows her stuff.
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http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/news_eng/news.htm (http://www.silvestricamera.it/eng/news_eng/news.htm)
There is an adapter for Canon cameras.
105mm is the maximum extension but you can add a longer bayonet that allows more extension I believe
Silvia Silvestre is the person to talk to, she knows her stuff.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the clarification.
As soon as i have the lens adapter and the camera is working, I'll give some news.
tom
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I've been looking very closely at it too, with the additional benefit that the local Hasselblad dealer here also has it in stock. I plan to rent it soon to try it out.
My observations/thoughts:
- The horizontal shift is on the front standard, while the vertical shift (+/- 23mm) is on the rear standard.
- There is a Live View adapter, Nikon & Canon EOS back adapter, and sliding back adapter. The one on the display/rental unit I saw was the sliding back adapter. As far as I know, there isn't a stitching back per se for either digital back or Nikon/Canon EOS body. But... you could combine the +/- 23mm vertical shift and the sliding back's horizontal movement to serve in this function IF you can live with reduced shift convenience, imprecise horizontal positioning in the stitching. Can you live with this? There is a measurement scale on the vertical shift movement, but none on the sliding back, so you would either have to do some testing and mark the different positions yourself, or make a hard card or wooden or plastic ruler that would help you understand how much you have shifted the sliding back left or right.
- Using a Canon EOS or Nikon body on a camera like this has the same problems of using one on any view camera - I don't know the exact measurement for a Canon EOS body, but a Nikon body is some 43mm deep, from lens mounting flange to the CCD sensor focal point. As a consequence, it is often not possible to use lenses shorter than 90mm with a Canon or Nikon body, unless you don't mind not being able to focus to infinity.
- If you plan to shoot multiple shots on the Canon/Nikon body across the lens' image circle and stitch together, there is no recessed ground glass to you that can help you compose first, that will have the same depth as the Canon/Nikon body, so this will be another, inconvenient, challenging aspect. If shooting with a digital back, you don't have this problem.
- If you main purpose is to use a Canon body, have you had a look at http://www.camerafusion.com/ (http://www.camerafusion.com/)?
- Have you read the review of the Horseman LD (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/Horseman_LD.shtml) on this site? It might give you some insight into using a view camera adapter with a 35mm type SLR.
I'll try to put together as much as I can into a sort of a review when I rent the Flexicam. I just don't have a firm date when I'll do that yet.
shutay
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Thanks for the input there, and I/we'd appreciate your thoughts when you've used it a bit.
J
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Just to stir things up and to add a purty picture to this thread (don't you prefer a book with pictures in it? ).
It's a Silvestri Flexicam with Sliding back and Hasselblad H-mount, with digiBellows mounted over the ground glass. The lens is a Rodenstock Apo-Sironar Digital 4.5/45mm lens. Tripod is a Gitzo as you can see for youself...
The shot is a crop taken out of a shot taken using a Kapture Group Truewide using my Ixpress V96C and a Zeiss ZF 50mm f/1.4 lens. As far as I could tell, the Zeiss lens image circle covered the entire 6x6 ground glass focusing screen.
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Is the Flexicam able to work with 120mm Macro for still life requiring longer rail & bellows?
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Is the Flexicam able to work with 120mm Macro for still life requiring longer rail & bellows?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180559\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have not had the chance to try any of this, but there is a Hasselblad V actuator in Silvestri bayonet mount. The idea is that it enables one to use Hasselblad V lenses on the Flexicam. The actuator itself has a certain depth and provides a means to cock the lens shutter mechanism and trigger it. I would imagine that combined with the depth of the actuator along with the built-in focus rails, the required depth is available make normal use of V-system lenses. As far as I can tell, it is not possible to extend the focus rail to make it longer than the standard supplied length. But you would have the benefit of being able to use tilt and swing in addition to the close focus of the 120 Makro-Planar lens. Full extension of the focus rail is 90mm, together with the depth of the Actuator, means that it should even provide the effect of a certain amount of extension tube as well if fully racked out. But once again, I have neither seen nor touched this Actuator.
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Thanks, shutay.
The Silvestri Flexicam shows interesting potential.
If V lenses can be used with their Actuator, imagine if somehow HC lenses could be mounted and controlled, too.
I suppose Rollei lenses could be used as well since Alpa is already offering their solution:
http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products...ens_adapters_i_ (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products/lenses/lens_adapters_i_)
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The lens actuator/adapter arrived finally. Workflow is the same as with the Flexbody, the recock lever has two positions: Recock, trigger(shutter close), activate the back, trigger again to expose.
I just took a few minutes to put my 60/80/120 mm CF(e) on the flexicam to get an idea how this works.
Lenses up to 105mm are offcially supported, but no idea if they mean LF lenses or Zeiss lenses.
So, yes, the 120mm seems to work fine, but i looks huge on the small flexicam. Would i put a twice as heavy 180mm on it? No way, better not.
What can the flexicam do? For my kind of work it can probably replace a big Sinar P on location. It has swing/tilt on the front standard as well as lateral/side shift. Shifting up and down is done on the rear standard.
Not sure if all the little tiny buttons are on the right place, the small button to unlock the actuator from the body is impossible to push with normal fingers.
Tom
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THANK YOU, Tom.
Is the Flexicam holding up from all the weight/torque?
Billy
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Paul, Thierry & Yair,
I hope you're taking notice
how this mini-view camera would an interesting option
IF HC and Rollei-mount lenses were to be usable on it.
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Tom,
How is the screen on the Silvestri sliding back? Their screens have typically been fairly dark. If you are working tethered it may not matter that much.
The lens actuator/adapter arrived finally. Workflow is the same as with the Flexbody, the recock lever has two positions: Recock, trigger(shutter close), activate the back, trigger again to expose.
I just took a few minutes to put my 60/80/120 mm CF(e) on the flexicam to get an idea how this works.
Lenses up to 105mm are offcially supported, but no idea if they mean LF lenses or Zeiss lenses.
So, yes, the 120mm seems to work fine, but i looks huge on the small flexicam. Would i put a twice as heavy 180mm on it? No way, better not.
What can the flexicam do? For my kind of work it can probably replace a big Sinar P on location. It has swing/tilt on the front standard as well as lateral/side shift. Shifting up and down is done on the rear standard.
Not sure if all the little tiny buttons are on the right place, the small button to unlock the actuator from the body is impossible to push with normal fingers.
Tom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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The lens actuator/adapter arrived finally. Workflow is the same as with the Flexbody, the recock lever has two positions: Recock, trigger(shutter close), activate the back, trigger again to expose.
I just took a few minutes to put my 60/80/120 mm CF(e) on the flexicam to get an idea how this works.
Lenses up to 105mm are offcially supported, but no idea if they mean LF lenses or Zeiss lenses.
So, yes, the 120mm seems to work fine, but i looks huge on the small flexicam. Would i put a twice as heavy 180mm on it? No way, better not.
What can the flexicam do? For my kind of work it can probably replace a big Sinar P on location. It has swing/tilt on the front standard as well as lateral/side shift. Shifting up and down is done on the rear standard.
Not sure if all the little tiny buttons are on the right place, the small button to unlock the actuator from the body is impossible to push with normal fingers.
Tom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
tom:how are you working with the sliding back for vertical positioning?
my sliding back can't clear the tripod head in vertical position
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THANK YOU, Tom.
Is the Flexicam holding up from all the weight/torque?
Billy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182091\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, it seems so,
these Zeiss are quite heavy, but i seems all fine for me, my 120mm being the heaviest i have. I will get a 160 or 180mm some day, but these are probably too heavy.
I good tripod is a must here, not really because of the weight of the body/lens, but because to manipulation of the sliding back, maybe I just have to get used to it
Tom
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Tom,
How is the screen on the Silvestri sliding back? Their screens have typically been fairly dark. If you are working tethered it may not matter that much.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182111\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It looks ok to me, I had a look outdoors, everything fine of course, indoors at the table too. I did test the 35mm Digitar (without filter)indoors without additional lights...it was hmmm ok to me, better than the Sinar/P1-Flexadapter ever was, but I can imagine these wide-angle lenses can be quite tricky with a normal screen.
@ jing q: good question, my back is a V-Mount, so i just rotate it, justlike on the 503cw. hmmm. How can you do this with a H or contax back. I suppose (well i hope) they have inserts like on a P1 flexadapter sliding back. A good question for Silvestri.
tom
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I can focus with a 35mm hr in low light (hotel dim lighting). I find that it's helpful to have a black and white board on hand (just about letter size) to put at the point of focus to make focusing easier
that's with the silvestri sliding back on a bicam..I think the screen is the same
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Newbie (viewcam) question, if you don't mind.
Trying to decide between the Flexicam and Bicam (interior for PC, and product), or perhaps a Cambo. Are there any practical disadvantages with only rise and fall on the 'back standard' and shift on the front, as opposed to being able to do both rise/fall and shift, all on the back standard?
I'm also assuming that tilting the film plane (eg forward) is to tilt the whole camera, and then tilt the front standard back, and that there's no practical difference there between do that and tilting the back standard the direction you want and leaving the front standard with no tilt.
(I've not used a view camera before, but think I just about understand how the principles apply)
I'm also interested in the answer to the question about eh mounting of the back; I have P45 in an AFD mount. Am I stuck to mounting it on these cameras in 'landscape' orientation, as opposed to being able to rotate the mounting plate, and have the back in the portrait orientation. I'm thinking here about using shift on a 35xl to produce a stitched shot of 2-3 individual shots, to use the full image circle and leave a lot of come and go for cropping of the final image.
Listen, thanks to any who help answering; I'm keen to get the right product that suits my needs - I didn't win the lottery last week :-( !
Jon
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Newbie (viewcam) question, if you don't mind.
Trying to decide between the Flexicam and Bicam (interior for PC, and product), or perhaps a Cambo. Are there any practical disadvantages with only rise and fall on the 'back standard' and shift on the front, as opposed to being able to do both rise/fall and shift, all on the back standard?
I'm also assuming that tilting the film plane (eg forward) is to tilt the whole camera, and then tilt the front standard back, and that there's no practical difference there between do that and tilting the back standard the direction you want and leaving the front standard with no tilt.
(I've not used a view camera before, but think I just about understand how the principles apply)
I'm also interested in the answer to the question about eh mounting of the back; I have P45 in an AFD mount. Am I stuck to mounting it on these cameras in 'landscape' orientation, as opposed to being able to rotate the mounting plate, and have the back in the portrait orientation. I'm thinking here about using shift on a 35xl to produce a stitched shot of 2-3 individual shots, to use the full image circle and leave a lot of come and go for cropping of the final image.
Listen, thanks to any who help answering; I'm keen to get the right product that suits my needs - I didn't win the lottery last week :-( !
Jon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182215\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think that having the shift on the back standard rather than front would have been a good idea (for stitching purposes)
the sliding back on my bicam can be taken out and put back on the camera in a portrait position.
Numerous people have pointed out that tilts and swings are unnecessary with such a small sensor (apparently) but I find it more pleasurable to use than adjust in photoshop later.
Not many cameras with a small minimum extension while enabling tilts and swings so the silvestri cameras are good in that aspect.
Not sure what the flange focal distance of the 35mm XL is but I can stitch with my 35mmHR
I've attached an image below, it's about 10mm shifted up and 10mm shifted down with the sensor in landscape position (please forgive the vignetting on the right side...was just testing the quality and maximum image circle of the lens)
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I've attached an image below, it's about 10mm shifted up and 10mm shifted down with the sensor in landscape position (please forgive the vignetting on the right side...was just testing the quality and maximum image circle of the lens)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=182271\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the reply, and I assume you weren't using a centre filter for that photo either?
It's interesting being able to remount the sliding back. might have to displace the whole camera from the tripod / stand to make sure the two don't meet.
J
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Thanks so much for all your input, folks. You've given me a lot to think about!
Merrill
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As far as I know, there isn't a stitching back per se for either digital back or Nikon/Canon EOS body. But... you could combine the +/- 23mm vertical shift and the sliding back's horizontal movement to serve in this function IF you can live with reduced shift convenience, imprecise horizontal positioning in the stitching. Can you live with this? There is a measurement scale on the vertical shift movement, but none on the sliding back, so you would either have to do some testing and mark the different positions yourself, or make a hard card or wooden or plastic ruler that would help you understand how much you have shifted the sliding back left or right.
shutay
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If anyone's interested, there IS a stitching back coming for the Bicam in the next month or two, and my dealer is going to ring Mr Silvestri next week and find out the sp on a stitching back for the flexicam.
In the end I started thinking Bicam, but the Schneider 35xl doesn't focus on it but does on the flexicam.
Jon
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#up#
Don't want to open a new topic for this:
Last week I got the Schneider 35mm XL for the Flexicam; I quickly did a test in the studio (3-4 pictures, really out of focus, moiré, I didn't keep them:-) and was a bit nervous so I took the combo home to do some interior shots at a local gallery yesterday evening. Not very arty, but a good way to get confortable with this combo.
I really will have to get used to focussing I guess. This was a real challenge, 15 sec. exposures, Centerfilter, dark corners, LC correction, bad lightning, shooting to card on P25.
Here two shots, I took 3-4 pictures of every shot. The first one (the one I focussed on) was usually the best. f:11, 15 sec exposure, No sharpening in PS.
- The two standards of the view camera a really REALLY close; shift only on the first photo, shift and lateral tilt on the 2nd. Do see how Tilting can work on a wider lens, there's no place...
- I really need a Flarebuster or Lensshade for the 35mm.
- Focus looks ok to me, but obvisously is a bit trial and error. I really will have to take a notebook on location to check focus. (or hope for a day when we get acceptable screenss
- This is not a travelling camera, It's not in the same league ass Alpa/Cambo/Sinar Artec. It's a great location view camera, that allows the use of wide-angle lenses too.
- There IS a problem with stitching on the Flexicam, you have to re-focus after shifting the front or rear standard, the barrel of the lens touches/moves the front standard. Unless they bring out an updated sliding back (with stitching capabilty), the Flexicam is not the right tool for stitching.
Tom-
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Just to stir things up and to add a purty picture to this thread (don't you prefer a book with pictures in it? ).
It's a Silvestri Flexicam with Sliding back and Hasselblad H-mount, with digiBellows mounted over the ground glass. The lens is a Rodenstock Apo-Sironar Digital 4.5/45mm lens. Tripod is a Gitzo as you can see for youself...
The shot is a crop taken out of a shot taken using a Kapture Group Truewide using my Ixpress V96C and a Zeiss ZF 50mm f/1.4 lens. As far as I could tell, the Zeiss lens image circle covered the entire 6x6 ground glass focusing screen.
Interesting,
Recently I've been looking into a Silvestri solution myself. Considering their pricing, and the amount of accessories they offer, this seems to be the best solution for a portable technical camera.
After speaking with the Silvestri USA rep, I was told that the Flexicam could not take a Sliding/Stitching back, due to weight restrictions. Is this not the case?
Ps, Does anyone rent Silvestri equipment in the NYC area?
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Interesting,
Recently I've been looking into a Silvestri solution myself. Considering their pricing, and the amount of accessories they offer, this seems to be the best solution for a portable technical camera.
After speaking with the Silvestri USA rep, I was told that the Flexicam could not take a Sliding/Stitching back, due to weight restrictions. Is this not the case?
Ps, Does anyone rent Silvestri equipment in the NYC area?
Yes, they will not put / develop a stitching back on the Flexicam, because then it loses the size advantage. Forget the Flexicam, go with a Bicam. Much better piece of kit.