Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: DLS on March 07, 2008, 12:18:10 pm
-
Now that my Z3100 has been updated with new the pinch rollers and starwheel assembly,I've had a chance to print quite a bit with the Harman glossy FB AI paper. The Z3100 now prints perfectly with no marks of any kind on it.
Until now I've been using either Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 or Fine Art Pearl for most of my prints. I'll still use the 308 for certain things, but I'll never run the FAP through my printer again. When you look at the prints side by side (Harman and FAP) it's unbelievable how much more pleasing the Harman prints are. Aside from the surface which is smooth as silk compared to the FAP, the images just look more detailed and 3 dimensional. The difference is so noticable that I actually went to a local gallery that sells my prints and took 2 home to reprint. Looking at them side by side has been a real eye opener. There is NO comparison.
I've tried the Hahnemuhle baryta paper which is a lot better than the FAP, but not as nice overall as the Harman imo. The surface of the Hahnemuhle baryta doesn't seem as fragile as the Harman though. The Harman won't stand up to careless handling.
If inkjet printing has gotten this good, I can't help wondering what we'll have at our disposal in the future as the technology matures even more.
-
If inkjet printing has gotten this good, I can't help wondering what we'll have at our disposal in the future as the technology matures even more.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179826\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just a quick question-
What kind of profile are you using for the Harman gloss on the Z3100?
The profile I made with the built-in spectro goes way dark in the shadows compared to any others I've made.
-
Just a quick question-
What kind of profile are you using for the Harman gloss on the Z3100?
The profile I made with the built-in spectro goes way dark in the shadows compared to any others I've made.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179831\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm using a profile generated by the z3100. I settled on "photo gloss paper" with the paper thickness option set to "thick" after a couple tries with other settings. If you don't set the paper thickness to "thick" with the "photo gloss paper" setting you'll get head strikes because this paper swells as it takes ink.
As far as the shadows: the Harman definitely has better Dmax on my prints, but no loss of shadow detail compared to other papers I've profiled.
These settings seem like the sweet spot for ink lay down. According to the HP document regarding using 3rd party papers the ink limiting is as follows:
photo gloss paper:36
fine art pearl paper(less ink):32
both of these papers at (more ink):46
I haven't tried the (more ink) settings because of the head strikes I got when profiling with ink limit at 36 and paper thickness set to "normal". It doesn't look to me like more ink would be a benefit though. There is noticeably better Dmax between the ink limit of 32 and 36 as I profiled both ways.
-
Just a quick question-
What kind of profile are you using for the Harman gloss on the Z3100?
The profile I made with the built-in spectro goes way dark in the shadows compared to any others I've made.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179831\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
One more thing: I make sure I keep the slack out of the roll. I don't know if it really makes a difference, but I didn't like getting the head strikes after profiling with "normal" thickness and it can't hurt...
-
the harman paper is a lot more glossy compared the hahnmuhle FAB paper. its more like a gloss paper than the other fibre based papers out there.
-
One more thing: I make sure I keep the slack out of the roll. I don't know if it really makes a difference, but I didn't like getting the head strikes after profiling with "normal" thickness and it can't hurt...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179839\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks so much.
-
I just saw this forum entry a little late and have some questions about using the papers on my Z3100
How about Gloss differential on Harman and the Hahnemuhle Baryta.- with the Gloss enhancer on.
I have not used the two papers yet but have tried:
Ilford gold silk - lots of gloss differential GE does not work at all
and
The Epson Traditional photo paper or Exhibition fibre: beautiful with Black/White and Ge-On.
GE does a very good job on the BW prints and is absolutely necessary
(I have used the fineart pearl paper- more ink option)
In color mode I see some gloss differential but the problem is small.
Still I will prefer the Satin Pro from HP for the colorprints.
The gamut ( APS measured) of the paper is as good as the best HP papers - like HP satin pro
I also tried Harman Gloss FB Al and find that there is always gloss differential. I Used 36ml ( gloss photo) and 46ml ink ( fine art pearl more ink) + GEon
it is more glossy and I must say it looks very nice; but the remaining gloss differential puts me off.
too bad the epson paper only comes in sheets..
Pieter
-
Can anyone advise me on a great photo paper for my Z3100? I see some opinions on this thread but hope to open it up to others. The HP Premium ID GLoss to me is simply a non-professional product. I need something for my very professional photo friends and clients that I can print out professional-quality photos with. I look forward to hearing from you all...thanks,
Ryan F
-
Can anyone advise me on a great photo paper for my Z3100? I see some opinions on this thread but hope to open it up to others. The HP Premium ID GLoss to me is simply a non-professional product. I need something for my very professional photo friends and clients that I can print out professional-quality photos with. I look forward to hearing from you all...thanks,
Ryan F
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216771\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It's a pretty subjective issue, since we're basically talking about 'art' here. Everyone will eventually gravitate toward paper(s) that match their sense of what the images need. You'll get as many opinions as there are photographers. This is just my 2¢:
1) HP's Professional satin photo paper. This is thicker than the basic ID satin, and I really like the surface. This is sort of a 'soft gloss' with very little texture, and lacks the kind of hard mirror gloss that I find annoying. Yes, it's a bit plastic-feeling in the hand, but for anything matted & framed it's great. Base paper white is just a bit to the blue end of neutral, which means it's a very bright white. No doubt it has some OBA's, but it scores great on Wilhelm's longevity testing. And it's relatively cheap. Absolute image quality is hard to beat.
2) Hahnemüle photo rag satin. This is a quirky paper, but I love its look. Paper white is a bit warm/ivory, suggesting little if any OBA's. Once the Z3100 ink hits the paper it produces a subtle differential satin sheen that varies with tone and ink-load. The result is an apparent increase in tonal separation in the shadows & 3/4 tones. Blue skies take on a crystalline appearance and greens are terrific. D-max is only fair like most rag papers, but that satin sheen seems to increase shadow depth a bit so I can live with it, and I really love black & white prints on this paper. It has that classic HPR luxurious hand feel as well.
3) Hahnemüle photo rag pearl. No OBA's at all, ivory white paper base, and a perfectly good d-max with photo black ink. Minimal gloss differential, good color gamut, great hand feel. Surface texture is the usual subtle HPR 'eggshell'. It's becoming my standard paper for color prints when hand feel matters.
4) Crane silver rag. Great hand feel, little to no OBA's, very deep d-max, relatively subtle surface texture. The only downside for me is a rather warm paper white, so cool-toned black & white prints simply don't work. If your black & white prints are generally warm-toned, you'll love this paper.
5) Harman gloss FB AL. Incredibly deep d-max and great '3-D' appearance to prints; but the paper white is really quite blue, and the surface is very delicate and scratch prone. And you really need the newer softer pinch rollers for the Z3100 with this paper, or you'll get roller marks.
-
Can anyone advise me on a great photo paper for my Z3100? I see some opinions on this thread but hope to open it up to others. The HP Premium ID GLoss to me is simply a non-professional product. I need something for my very professional photo friends and clients that I can print out professional-quality photos with. I look forward to hearing from you all...thanks,
Ryan F
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216771\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What do you mean by "photo paper"? Do you mean something very glossy on resin coated?
-
Since Hahnemuhle told me I could say what I want after the official press release, here goes;
They have a new PhotoRag Baryta with a F type surface which is quite glossy.
It has no OBA, 100% cotton rag base, very light white point, and a thick support base.
It shows little gloss diff on HP inks without GE, and 0 GD with GE. It has no bronzing problem, no pinwheel marks, no problems with roller marks on the back, less problems with illum metamerism, and a surface gloss that is really perfectly placed for inkjets.
I am gladly awaiting a better paper, but I will have a long wait.
The samples I have on Epson are even better than HP.
So if you want a premium paper this is the one.
I'll finish up a review this week, post it as soon as it's finished.
-
Since Hahnemuhle told me I could say what I want after the official press release, here goes;
They have a new PhotoRag Baryta with a F type surface which is quite glossy.
It has no OBA, 100% cotton rag base, very light white point, and a thick support base.
It shows little gloss diff on HP inks without GE, and 0 GD with GE. It has no bronzing problem, no pinwheel marks, no problems with roller marks on the back, less problems with illum metamerism, and a surface gloss that is really perfectly placed for inkjets.
I am gladly awaiting a better paper, but I will have a long wait.
The samples I have on Epson are even better than HP.
So if you want a premium paper this is the one.
I'll finish up a review this week, post it as soon as it's finished.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217151\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well.
This looks like the paper I've been waiting for. I've always loved the weight, quality and hand-feel of Hahnemüle photo rag, while longing for the deep d-max of coated photo papers. Photo rag pearl is pretty nice, but the surface isn't quite there; just a bit too much texture and not quite enough d-max. Maybe this is the one.
-
Neil,
Is the FineArt Baryta 325 what you're talking about? Click here. (http://www.hahnemuehle.com/index.php?mid=1791&lng=us&pkat=1280)
or
The Photo Rag Baryta 315? Click here. (http://www.hahnemuehle.com/index.php?mid=1791&lng=us&pkat=1368)
I wonder if there will be co-branded versions optimized for HP or if these papers will work equally well for Epson, Canon and HP inksets.
-
Ron,
The Fine Art Baryta is an alpha cellulose base, so I think Neil got it right in calling it Photo Rag Baryta. I liked everything Neil said, except for the part about the Epson prints looking better <sniff>. I'm eager to see the surface texture, which I often find too intrusive with many papers I have tried.
-Ron H.
-
Thanks, Ron. In hindsight you have to be right.
I'm looking forward to seeing the paper as well. I also wonder how expensive this paper is going to be.
-
Hi rdonson, Colorwave, Geoff Wittig, Neil Snape, and others,
This topic is very important to me and I'd like to expand it a bit so that someday I can add to it at your level. I am using the HP Z3100ps GP 44 in model.
Since August of last year, I have experimented at a great expense in time and materials with many, many different brands of "fibre gloss" type papers, and I understand all the technicals, clearly. I still have the original pinch rollers, and I still get roller marks with these papers. And yes, I've read all the prior threads on this forum about star wheel and roller marks.
I need to know: Have you all had the pinch rollers on your machines upgraded or what?
Since last January, when I had my star wheel assembly replaced, I've been waiting to hear positive news about printing with "photo gloss fiber" type papers on the Z. This thread has got me hoping that I will one day print them.
I have extensive experience with this machine, and I love it for all the wonderful prints I make on canvas and matte FAP materials, but I really bought this "photo printer" to print Professional Quality Gallery B&W Prints. There are so many papers out there that are aimed at doing just that.
Please let me know how you do it.
Thanks, and so long for now, TOM
Thanks, Ron. In hindsight you have to be right.
I'm looking forward to seeing the paper as well. I also wonder how expensive this paper is going to be.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217287\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Hi Tom,
I've been printing b&w on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (HP HSFA) and HP Pro Satin. I haven't experimented with the new round of "F" type inkjet papers due to the reports of marks on the Z and the cost of the papers. I loved the "F" type papers in my chemical darkroom but until the economy improves for me it will take a special need to use the new inkjet papers.
I'm still using the original rollers and star wheels.
-
I did have some marks on Innova. Afterwards there were some others that had light pinwheel marks too but you had to look closely. Never on the HP papers were there any pinwheel marks or roller marks either. Other than that with the Z printers there were not many problems on the surface.
On the 9180 there are rubber roller marks on certain high end media.
There aren't any on the new H Photo Rag Baryta at all. Front or back both are good. I can't say with the Z printers. I have samples on Epson VM and K3, both being exceptional.
The only paper that works close to this well on the HP is Pro Satin. Problem is for gallery printing you're better off with a cotton rag paper with no OBA.
-
Hi Ron,
I've been using the HP Pro Satin. It's good, but I really want to have more choices.
Sorry, but I didn't understand this: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (HP HSFA). This not the HP Hahnemuhle paper is it? What is (HP HSFA)?
Do you know if there is anything I should use to clean the rollers? Maybe that would help with the subtle marks I get in heavy ink areas.
When I do the color calibration and make a profile, the printer leaves some pretty shocking marks on those prints and I guess it's because they get pulled back rather aggressively to be read. No one I've asked has ever stated if this matters or not.
So long for now, TOM
Hi Tom,
I've been printing b&w on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (HP HSFA) and HP Pro Satin. I haven't experimented with the new round of "F" type inkjet papers due to the reports of marks on the Z and the cost of the papers. I loved the "F" type papers in my chemical darkroom but until the economy improves for me it will take a special need to use the new inkjet papers.
I'm still using the original rollers and star wheels.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217321\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Hi Neil,
Before my star wheel platen was replaced, my machine was a terror, and it really chewed through even HP Premium ID Gloss which is quite tough stuff. On the fiber type media it was amazingly bad. It's much improved, but with the fiber type, I'm still having troubles.
You say, "there aren't any on the new H Photo Rag Baryta at all," but you mean on Epson and not HP Z, correct?
You said: Problem is for gallery printing you're better off with a cotton rag paper with no OBA.
So on the Z that paper would be?
Thanks, and so long for now, TOM
I did have some marks on Innova. Afterwards there were some others that had light pinwheel marks too but you had to look closely. Never on the HP papers were there any pinwheel marks or roller marks either. Other than that with the Z printers there were not many problems on the surface.
On the 9180 there are rubber roller marks on certain high end media.
There aren't any on the new H Photo Rag Baryta at all. Front or back both are good. I can't say with the Z printers. I have samples on Epson VM and K3, both being exceptional.
The only paper that works close to this well on the HP is Pro Satin. Problem is for gallery printing you're better off with a cotton rag paper with no OBA.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217323\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
No I said I can't say on the Z, I don't have one any longer to print with.
On the 9180 it works well though, in fact the first Baryta to be truly mark free both sides.
I posted the review on my site. I hope there are not too many omissions or errors.
http://www.neilsnape.com/HPR_Baryta_review.htm (http://www.neilsnape.com/HPR_Baryta_review.htm)
-
Hi Neil,
Looks from the review like you've had the pleasure of really getting to know H Photo Rag Baryta. Too bad it doesn't appear to be HPZ friendly? I had wrongly thought that the HP 9180 was a dye ink printer, but a quick check on the HP site shows it to be "archivable." I may have to consider this one in the future to replace the aging Epson 2200.
Without creating too much "thread drift" how do you like the HP 9180 for your B&W prints?
Thanks, and so long for now, TOM
No I said I can't say on the Z, I don't have one any longer to print with.
On the 9180 it works well though, in fact the first Baryta to be truly mark free both sides.
I posted the review on my site. I hope there are not too many omissions or errors.
http://www.neilsnape.com/HPR_Baryta_review.htm (http://www.neilsnape.com/HPR_Baryta_review.htm)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217379\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Sorry, but I didn't understand this: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag (HP HSFA). This not the HP Hahnemuhle paper is it? What is (HP HSFA)?
Do you know if there is anything I should use to clean the rollers? Maybe that would help with the subtle marks I get in heavy ink areas.
When I do the color calibration and make a profile, the printer leaves some pretty shocking marks on those prints and I guess it's because they get pulled back rather aggressively to be read. No one I've asked has ever stated if this matters or not.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217364\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
HP HSFA = HP Hahnemuhle Smooth Fine Art - its Hahnemuhle Photo Rag with a coating optimized for the HP Vivera pigment inks
I've not cleaned my rollers. Perhaps clean with ordinary drug store alcohol?
For the calibration and profiles you might tell the printer that you'd like to read the chart later. The last is an option with APS, not sure if its across the board. You can also extend the drying time before the printer will read the chart.
Hope this helps,
-
Hi Ron-
How do you extend the drying time for profile reading?
Thanks, Bill
You can also extend the drying time before the printer will read the chart.
Hope this helps,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217414\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Hi Bill,
One way is to use the printer console.
- bring up the menu
- select the setup icon (the open end wrench)
- select Print Retrieval
- select drying time
- select "extended" to set a longer than recommended time
Hope this helps,
-
Hi Neil,
Looks from the review like you've had the pleasure of really getting to know H Photo Rag Baryta. Too bad it doesn't appear to be HPZ friendly? I had wrongly thought that the HP 9180 was a dye ink printer, but a quick check on the HP site shows it to be "archivable." I may have to consider this one in the future to replace the aging Epson 2200.
Without creating too much "thread drift" how do you like the HP 9180 for your B&W prints?
Thanks, and so long for now, TOM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The 9180 is not as good on photo media as the Z or Epson or Canon.
On the 9180 however matte paper on B&W goes well beyond all other printers for image quality.
With the curves and profiles I put up on my site in the review (s) B&W output on Photo media is quite acceptable, but the Vivera inkset without Gloss Enhancer is prone to bronzing and a large degree of gloss differential that Epson K3, VM, and the newer Canon x100 inkset will not have.
Be aware the Photo Rag Baryta is NOT the same as Fine Art Baryta. I think it will work well in any printer , including of course the Z printers. It is a new paper that just came out. It is already available since the beginning of August.
-
Hi Neil,
Thanks for all the interesting info. Much appreciated heads up on the Photo Rag Baryta Paper. Sounds like I have to try that one for sure.
So long for now, TOM
The 9180 is not as good on photo media as the Z or Epson or Canon.
On the 9180 however matte paper on B&W goes well beyond all other printers for image quality.
With the curves and profiles I put up on my site in the review (s) B&W output on Photo media is quite acceptable, but the Vivera inkset without Gloss Enhancer is prone to bronzing and a large degree of gloss differential that Epson K3, VM, and the newer Canon x100 inkset will not have.
Be aware the Photo Rag Baryta is NOT the same as Fine Art Baryta. I think it will work well in any printer , including of course the Z printers. It is a new paper that just came out. It is already available since the beginning of August.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217498\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Hi ron,
Man I get so confused by all the names and abbreviations one must use to either preserve time or fit on the line so that you know what's up on the HP Z Screen. I wish they had made it wider and less deep. (Yet another or many design decisions, I tend to make into a wish list).
I actually did clean the rollers with some isopropyl alcohol, but they are still tearing up my latest experiments in fine art fiber photo paper.
I am actually using the HP Hahnemuhle Smooth Fine Art, and I like it but I need more choices.
I usually extend the drying time.
I've tried a number of times to print a profile chart using the both optimized for width and to be re-read, but it never worked right for me with the older firmware. It used to just spit it out, over and over. So now that I have different FW than then, I guess I should try that again.
So long for now, TOM
HP HSFA = HP Hahnemuhle Smooth Fine Art - its Hahnemuhle Photo Rag with a coating optimized for the HP Vivera pigment inks
I've not cleaned my rollers. Perhaps clean with ordinary drug store alcohol?
For the calibration and profiles you might tell the printer that you'd like to read the chart later. The last is an option with APS, not sure if its across the board. You can also extend the drying time before the printer will read the chart.
Hope this helps,
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217414\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Hello Tom,
I don't know if your question is already answered, but I just had my starwheel assembly and the rubber rollers replaced for nothing within my 1 year garantee.
The new rollers are brown and are replaced one by one ( poor technician)
I find it to be a big difference.
In the short time i used it it left no marks at all on Harman Gloss FB Al
Also the Epson exhibition Fire ( also called Epson Traditional Photo paper) came out perfect
the latter paper I like best for black and white.
No bronzing- no gloss differential. + deep well defined blacks.
But it only comes in sheets.
for bigger prints I still will have to use the very good HP satin Pro
Pieter
-
Pieter-
Might I ask what standards HP is requiring before replacing your pressure rollers these days? Did they have you send them a sample print? Did it need to be on HP media?
Thanks,
Ron
-
hi kers,
My current situation is dire.
If I may ask, were you like me struggling to get prints on all these different papers that you felt the Z was designed for, being a PHOTO Printer with tremendous capabilities, and yet failing to get acceptable results due to roller marks?
I at one point spent an entire day last January (after I had my star wheel assembly replaced) preping samples of the various marks I was still having trouble with, and FYI, these were all on HP papers. I FedExed Tech Support in Bosie a large tube of prints all containing notes and pointing out my troubles, but I never received any response or reply from them. I put in quit a lot of time and effort and nothing. At that time, I had a lot of other fish to fry, so I went off the case. Meanwhile, I knew HP had to be working on it so I have been patient, but I need to get on with this.
If you could take a photo of your printer's star wheel and rollers, it might be helpful.
Thanks for your comments and interest, and so long for now, TOM
Hello Tom,
I don't know if your question is already answered, but I just had my starwheel assembly and the rubber rollers replaced for nothing within my 1 year garantee.
The new rollers are brown and are replaced one by one ( poor technician)
I find it to be a big difference.
In the short time i used it it left no marks at all on Harman Gloss FB Al
Also the Epson exhibition Fire ( also called Epson Traditional Photo paper) came out perfect
the latter paper I like best for black and white.
No bronzing- no gloss differential. + deep well defined blacks.
But it only comes in sheets.
for bigger prints I still will have to use the very good HP satin Pro
Pieter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217700\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Hello Tom,
I don't know if your question is already answered, but I just had my starwheel assembly and the rubber rollers replaced for nothing within my 1 year garantee.
The new rollers are brown and are replaced one by one ( poor technician)
I find it to be a big difference.
In the short time i used it it left no marks at all on Harman Gloss FB Al
Also the Epson exhibition Fire ( also called Epson Traditional Photo paper) came out perfect
the latter paper I like best for black and white.
No bronzing- no gloss differential. + deep well defined blacks.
But it only comes in sheets.
for bigger prints I still will have to use the very good HP satin Pro
Pieter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217700\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Exhibition Fibre is a nice paper but falls in the category of a lot of OBA. What is worse is the OBA is not only in the base but also in the coating, I'm told. If true the dissipation of the OBA will present problems for permanence. Controlling the coating's thickness makes it doubtful that any consistency between amount of OBA at any given area will be the same, nor between batches.
-
Pieter-
Might I ask what standards HP is requiring before replacing your pressure rollers these days? Did they have you send them a sample print? Did it need to be on HP media?
Thanks,
Ron
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=217704\")
I send them a print on innova Gloss F. Told them that according to the specs the printer should be able to be printing media up to .7 mm but already i got marks on HP's smooth fine art.
Also by making replace-parts they acknowledge that the former parts had problems
In the Netherlands - where I live_ they did not make any problems about the replacements
Tom - you will find a long forum discussion on the Z3100 rolller marks and a picture of the new pinch rollers here: [a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21426&hl=rollers&st=130]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....=rollers&st=130[/url]
-
Exhibition Fibre is a nice paper but falls in the category of a lot of OBA. What is worse is the OBA is not only in the base but also in the coating, I'm told. If true the dissipation of the OBA will present problems for permanence. Controlling the coating's thickness makes it doubtful that any consistency between amount of OBA at any given area will be the same, nor between batches.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217772\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hello Neil,
OBA means 'optical brighteners added'?
So if i understand from your posts I will have to try the new Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta
325 gsm made from 100% alpha-Cellulose ? being the best alternative without oba.
Does its appearance comes close to the Epson Paper?
Pieter
-
Now that my Z3100 has been updated with new the pinch rollers and starwheel assembly,I've had a chance to print quite a bit with the Harman glossy FB AI paper. The Z3100 now prints perfectly with no marks of any kind on it.
Until now I've been using either Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 or Fine Art Pearl for most of my prints. I'll still use the 308 for certain things, but I'll never run the FAP through my printer again. When you look at the prints side by side (Harman and FAP) it's unbelievable how much more pleasing the Harman prints are. Aside from the surface which is smooth as silk compared to the FAP, the images just look more detailed and 3 dimensional. The difference is so noticable that I actually went to a local gallery that sells my prints and took 2 home to reprint. Looking at them side by side has been a real eye opener. There is NO comparison.
I've tried the Hahnemuhle baryta paper which is a lot better than the FAP, but not as nice overall as the Harman imo. The surface of the Hahnemuhle baryta doesn't seem as fragile as the Harman though. The Harman won't stand up to careless handling.
If inkjet printing has gotten this good, I can't help wondering what we'll have at our disposal in the future as the technology matures even more.
Fine art pearl is an incredible stock for color photography, even in comparison to Harman FB gloss. I'd like to say it ultimately comes down to what works best for your subject - but you also have to consider Harman has OBAs. When it comes to b&w though, I agree the Harman is gorgeous; but so are Ilford GFS, Harman Matte FB and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Bright White... Again, if you throw out OBAs as an issue; just comes down to what's appropriate for your subject.
Ironically, I'm shocked how unpleased I am with b&w on Photo Rag Pearl. Seems to present an unusual level of contrast and lack of separation. How in the world it looks so great for color and hardly so for b&w is beyond me.
Photo Rag Pearl can also be a real pain to print on when it comes to marks, banding, bronzing and other joys. The other night I effortlessly printed a color portrait on Harman Gloss but felt like it was too commercial looking, if that makes sense. Then I went through hell getting a clean print of the same shot on Photo Rag Pearl. But boy was I happy with the results when it came through. Love that paper (for color).
The only stock I've felt was useless to date is Epson's Exhibition Fiber. What an expensive let-down. B&W prints I made a year ago on it are shifting and showing those micro-cracks so many claim not to exist. What crap. I wanted to dig it so bad but at this point I'd imagine even the biggest, Epson-loving pros have quietly ran from that stock.
-
Ironically, I'm shocked how unpleased I am with b&w on Photo Rag Pearl. Seems to present an unusual level of contrast and lack of separation. How in the world it looks so great for color and hardly so for b&w is beyond me.
Photo Rag Pearl can also be a real pain to print on when it comes to marks, banding, bronzing and other joys. The other night I effortlessly printed a color portrait on Harman Gloss but felt like it was too commercial looking, if that makes sense. Then I went through hell getting a clean print of the same shot on Photo Rag Pearl. But boy was I happy with the results when it came through. Love that paper (for color).
What printer are you using? I have found Hahnemuhle's Photo rag pearl to be really good for black & white prints on my HP Z3100. No banding, no marks, excellent tonal separation. Just the faintest hint of bronzing, barely noticeable at steep reflection angles. D-max is pretty good, not as dark as I get on HP pro satin, but lots better than any matte paper.
-
What printer are you using? I have found Hahnemuhle's Photo rag pearl to be really good for black & white prints on my HP Z3100. No banding, no marks, excellent tonal separation. Just the faintest hint of bronzing, barely noticeable at steep reflection angles. D-max is pretty good, not as dark as I get on HP pro satin, but lots better than any matte paper.
I love HPRP and can get great prints from it these days but it gets a bit tricky on the 3800. I occasionally make paper feed adjustments to avoid banding, yet don't run into this issue using Harman, Ilford or Epson stocks. I've noticed the bronzing you mention yet see this on many stocks, although it's nearly non-existent on Harman. Im able to manage the issue on Photo Rag Pearl well these days. My opinion is tonal separation ain't great on Photo Rag Pearl B&W prints. The issue is primarily a lack of highlight and shadow detail. It's my favorite stock for color though. How it looks so good to me in color but not B&W is beyond me. I'm using Epson's ABW with Chan's profile for the stock. His profiles have worked great for me on other stocks and he's so adept with the 3800 that I assume the issue is the stock and not his profile.
My current favorites for B&W are Harman FG Gloss and Matte as well as Ilford Gold Fiber Silk. Photo Rag Bright White can also be a great stock for hi-con, deep-matte-black looks but here we have yet another odd matter... on this stock it's the color that lacks separation while the B&W can look nice for certain subjects. Earthy color tones have separation issues on Photo Rag Bright White.