Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: david o on February 13, 2008, 01:38:10 am
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Hi,
I hope you are not all asleep, at least in Europe you may start to wake up.
So I have a job of product to do, everything is fine, but it was not schedule first and I have a glass of red wine to shoot...
I knew it would have been tricky so I cheated with the wine to make it lighter otherwise it's just a dark block in the glass but still I don't get good result with nice transparency
Any advices?
thanks
I have 3 heads... 2 on each side one at the back... and the glass is in a tent... but a plastic one and the opening is really not where I want it to be but that another part that I have to solve...
And here's the best I can achieve so far
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Hi,
I hope you are not all asleep, at least in Europe you may start to wake up.
So I have a job of product to do, everything is fine, but it was not schedule first and I have a glass of red wine to shoot...
I knew it would have been tricky so I cheated with the wine to make it lighter otherwise it's just a dark block in the glass but still I don't get good result with nice transparency
Any advices?
thanks
I have 3 heads... 2 on each side one at the back... and the glass is in a tent... but a plastic one and the opening is really not where I want it to be but that another part that I have to solve...
And here's the best I can achieve so far
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174451\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi David, what the story behind the shot? It's only a glass, is it a campaign maybe? I'd try to create a good story before I look at the colors. Maybe a more traditional composition? Wood table, dark background (will help the red popup), the original bottle? Mix of colors, cheese, grapes..... only ideas.
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Dear David,
Glasses with wine (red) and liquid in general, are often lit from behind the glass by means of a little metalic reflector or translucid paper. This reflector is placed right on the glass, behind, in the optical axis.
That is one solution and allows not to use a backlight like the one you had to use to get the wine red.
Best regards,
Thierry
Addendum: and in general, unless the job prescription is so, I would not choose this very low view point. It gives a strange perspective when looking at the bubbles, with the wine level from the back "under" the front. Try by getting higher with the camera.
Hi,
I hope you are not all asleep, at least in Europe you may start to wake up.
So I have a job of product to do, everything is fine, but it was not schedule first and I have a glass of red wine to shoot...
I knew it would have been tricky so I cheated with the wine to make it lighter otherwise it's just a dark block in the glass but still I don't get good result with nice transparency
Any advices?
thanks
I have 3 heads... 2 on each side one at the back... and the glass is in a tent... but a plastic one and the opening is really not where I want it to be but that another part that I have to solve...
And here's the best I can achieve so far
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174451\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi David,
have you been a black foreground tried to avoid reflections?
Sorry for the image sabotage ...
Adina
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2.
Polarizing filters for this Problem ?
Only as an idea ...
Greetings
Adina
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Hi David,
Thierry is correct, I think. Have you tried using white and black foam core? You may find that a combination of light and dark reflectors or as Thierry suggests to give more shape, tonality and contrast to your glass and the wine. If you need all white background, try removing the tent and use the black on the sides out of the frame and white or black on camera side.
Eric
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Dear David,
"Glasses with wine (red) and liquid in general, are often lit from behind the glass by means of a little metalic reflector or translucid paper. This reflector is placed right on the glass, behind, in the optical axis."
and - as far as I remember - one often put´s black cards left and right of the glass to create black lines at the sides of the glass (especialy the stem of the glass needs that here, I think).
stefan
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Some ideas:
*Black plexiglass underneath, will reflect rear light and appear almost white, but will not throw as much light back up onto the glass. May need some PS work to remove the edge of the plexi against the background. If the edge is "hard" you need to change something, as that will be a bigger PS job than a small change in lighting or camera position would provide.
*Transparent glass underneath, and lit through, would give you some rim lighting on the rounded surfaces of the glass towards the floor, but may be tricky with the wineglass as there are several "layers" of glass (a tumbler would work fine...)
*As mentioned, black card on both sides. Needs to be quite tall, or else you will see a reflection of where the "card ends" in the glass. The wider/deeper the card, the "thicker" the edges will seem. Start fairly wide, and trim to perfection.
*As mentioned, a good polarizer. Cuts down on glare and makes the glass "pop" a bit more.
*As mentioned, paper, card or reflector directly behind the glass. This works well in bottles etc. but i suspect it to be difficult with your wineglass. Getting it to sit perfectly behind on either just the liquid, or the entire glass, would need a very, very cood cutting job.
*You can try any number of different frontal white card combinations. Id make only one very tall and thin to have them follow the entire line of the glass. This can create a running highlight along the vertical to better show the viewer how round it is and that it is "lit" from some angle. A striplight is also good, but expensive and needs to be very tall.
*Photoshop... cut down on the rear lighting, makes the stem disappear. Get the stem back, and trace it in PS (if you need it surrounded by white.)
*Bubbles, fewer?
Some tips can be found at Strobist:
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/03/on-as...red-vodkas.html (http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/03/on-assignment-flavored-vodkas.html)
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Thank you all,
I guess I'll get rid of the tent...
it has 2 opening, the one that I used on the example and the other on the top... That's why I ended up with that weird view that I hate myself. I can't be higher with the camera.
I'll try the reflector on the glass itself and black on side.
Samuel, I have to go with white background, the glass is just a part of a final collage.
It's the last object of a series I kept it as I knew it will be something...
Thanks again, I will go on tomorrow time to sleep now.
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I find a tent absolutely useless unless you want totally flat soft boring diffused light (pearls for instance like tents). Otherwise I use white foamboards for putting light on glass and black panels where I want to see the outlines of glass.
You can shoot glass black or white (a bit like metal, they take the color of whatever light you put on them).
I would refrain from backlighting too much since this will diminish contrast. Toplight, background lights (they reflect the light back as well as take out the background) and 2 black panels on each side and 1 white foamboard on the front side (you shoot through it) should be sufficient for this glass.
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thanks a lot... I am soon back on it.
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Most of what I've been doing the last twenty five years is shoot for the wine industry of California. So I've shot a glass or two of red wine. In the days of film you would have to light it and light it correctly, these days of digital and photoshop have made it a simple process of combining different "lighting" exposures into one. Maybe a shot or two of reflections, a shot of the color of the wine, etc and layer them up in Pshop and go add it.
Diluting the wine is a time honored approach, I think though in your posted example you went too far. I also think you have way too many bubbles. Try to have a just a few in a small group. There are tiny glass balls available for this or you can pick up soap bubbles and place them where you want or even beaten egg whites can be used.
It is a shame that much of the lighting and tricks that one needed to learn in old days of film are going away but hey, it sure makes it easier now.
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I would follow theirry´s advice and get a bit higher, less bubbles, less dilution of the wine, get a light that is above and slightly behind the product. A piece of glass for the wine glass to sit on will help, and black and white cards (as big as you can find to start) will really help. The light that comes from above and slightly to the back will make the wine appear more transluscent and will help you avoid having to use reflective material behind it as your background should be white and will properly reflect through the wine. Good luck. And the idea of blending a few exposures might just be the ticket. It really depends on what final look you´re going for.
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something I did a bit back...I think we had everything surrounded by black in the front - light on the backdrop for the spot, light from about for the spot...but the reflections were wild, a lot of toying w/ huge foamcores - white, black, grey...(http://jimgoldenstudio.com/JGS_wine.jpg)
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in half an hour I am back on it.
That is great to have your input... I knew it was tricky as I remember article or book I read about glass lighting a far long time ago and I tried to recall what it was about but it was too old for my brain.
Thanks again for the infos.
d
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I'm sure you're way beyond this but thought I would mention it.
"Light: Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting" is a great resource.
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When I shoot clear glassware I try to use white (milk) plexi and back / underlight it. Then I use tall black cards on either side to give a nice defined line to the glassware. Here is an example:
[attachment=5132:attachment]
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-Set some white paper on top of a table.
-Place a sheet of glass (just regular glass) ontop of the paper.
-Setup a white paper background.
-Set the wine glass on top of the sheet of glass.
-Light the white paper background with strobes (kind of blow it out, don't overdo it).
-The reflection of the paper background will appear on the glass sheet surface, thus making your shooting surface white as well (a similar technique to lighting from below).
-Use black cards/gobos to create diffused highlights (or negative highlights?) to create black outlines along the curves of the glass.
-In PS, use layers to set a white point on the darkest/most greyish point of the white background to get a 255,255,255 white isolation.
At least this is what I would try first.
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here where I ended up... I burned up the top left on purpose....
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This may not be what you want, but here is a shot of mine used by Permajet fine art paper in an ad campaign in the UK. Rim lighting.
(http://qdfb.smugmug.com/photos/254832031_iWNhi-O.jpg)
Quentin
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I had to have white background a little bit modern means not too much like wine ad, the idea is the reminiscence... what the glass of wine remind... integrated in an hype billboard collage with lot of high-end furniture goodies etc...
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I HATE images on white background, but you have to do it for clients and also stock images on white sell well.
Looking at Quentin's image, this is exactly why I love shooting objects on black instead of on white. A black surrounding lets you shape the object with light. It's fun and it's easy. Simple rim lighting with black background. Perfect.
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it can look good... it depemds of what the subject is...
I done that for the same client
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Here is an empty wine glass...completely off topic.
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Thanks to T-1000 for his comments. David is right, those good old high key white backgrounds do seem to be popular though, and I've done a few of those
I took a slightly different approach for the following stock shot, back-lit by a log fire
(http://qdfb.smugmug.com/photos/254970764_kUBN4-O.jpg)
Quentin
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About 60% of everything I do is with white backgrounds or free. It is easy to do and the clients apparently have the largest freedom in using it even white clothing though I find that the most difficult to do (white on white).
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About 60% of everything I do is with white backgrounds or free. It is easy to do and the clients apparently have the largest freedom in using it even white clothing though I find that the most difficult to do (white on white).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175213\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Absolutely right.
Quentin
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About 60% of everything I do is with white backgrounds or free. It is easy to do and the clients apparently have the largest freedom in using it even white clothing though I find that the most difficult to do (white on white).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175213\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
For white on white I position lights slightly back and pull the subject slightly forward. It works okay with opaque surfaces. If it's a shiny surface - like an iPod, then reflections can be difficult to tame. Anyway, here's a quickie to illustrate -
(http://www.pebbleplacephotography.com/fm/white_on_white.jpg)
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This high-key shot using softbox as a backlight and a single sidelight
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For white on white I position lights slightly back and pull the subject slightly forward. It works okay with opaque surfaces. If it's a shiny surface - like an iPod, then reflections can be difficult to tame. Anyway, here's a quickie to illustrate -
The hardest I find lingery and baby clothing
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This high-key shot using softbox as a backlight and a single sidelight
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175219\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
could it be time to drink it ???
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could it be time to drink it ???
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175234\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sadly, it was only Cranberry juice but I think I'll follow your suggestion with something a tad stronger
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Guys, you need to control your light. I see a LOT of sloppy highlights on the images posted.
To me shooting glass is like drawing, you need to draw your highlights and shadows and erase unwanted reflections. To eliminate reflections you need black, behind you and the camera and to the side and sometimes above. I avoid any front light sources unless I want to include a specific highlight on the surface. You need to use black cutters to add volume and also white cards to add soft reflected highlights.
As you saw the tent is a bad idea. It doesnt allow you to control the distance of the white surface.
The white (milky) acrylic is a great place to start. Create a small ciclorama with it and shoot light through the back and bottom. But in a controlled manner, dont use to much.
Il try and post an image sample soon of a beer bottle I shot last week.
But try and look through the viewfinder while you direct an asstant to move a reflector and or light etc and see the effect on the glass, that way you will see exactly where you need to put your light controls and what works.
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Gidday,
As I was shooting this glass of orange juice for a client today I remembered the wine glass forum so I grabbed my Nikon D2x and took some shots of the lighting set up.
Cheers
Simon
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Here are a few samples:
The heineken shot was actually a stop motion of ice melting on the bottle for a TV spot. (thats why im using kino-flo continuous lighting) These are the shots where I was testing illumination before any post production work. The final framing was even tighter.
I shot the Medalla Beer bottle using a white trasluscent acrylic wiht a light bellow and behind a med softbox top and a med soft box to my left through a silk. I had a few white reflectors to on eside and above camera and a black board to my left.
(http://aycu17.webshots.com/image/43096/2002583163359659609_rs.jpg)
(http://aycu02.webshots.com/image/43801/2002586206716769787_rs.jpg)
(http://aycu10.webshots.com/image/45449/2002536194982782352_rs.jpg)
(http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/44599/2002548099605156790_rs.jpg)
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oops![attachment=5182:attachment]
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Hi ctz,
Great stop motion. Can I ask was this Bron flash or Metz?
Regards
Simon
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not trying to butt in.. but if we are moving on to wine spills.. how about this?[attachment=5183:attachment]
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Nice work. Is there a small dust spot on the Medalla image below the bottle? I know, I'm being tooo picky, excellent shots, like your setup.
Similar to your Medalla image in style:
(http://qdfb.smugmug.com/photos/256340449_eDSaE-O.jpg)
Quentin
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Quite a fun thread. Lots of great images and ideas. Simon of HarperPhotos also a super setup. I tend to get by with more "ad hoc" arrangements...
Quentin
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Nice work. Is there a small dust spot on the Medalla image below the bottle? I know, I'm being tooo picky, excellent shots, like your setup.
Similar to your Medalla image in style:
Quentin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175888\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yeah, I think there is a spot and the acrylic is not cleaned up well. It didnt matter because the image was gonna be selected out in p shop and put in another context. This is the image straight out the camera basically. Same with the Heineken image.
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Hi ctz,
Great stop motion. Can I ask was this Bron flash or Metz?
Regards
Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=175883\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi, Simon,
Neither. Were Elinchrom 250R.
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Excellent thread. The combination of lighting set-up shots and the resulting product shot is most informative.
This should be a sticky. More, please!
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ctz,
Before I saw your reply I was going to say acrylic prop rather than a stop motion.
Good job, as well as yours garytimms.
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Gidday,
Thought I would throw in a selection of shots from over the years.
A mixture of trannie and digital and some montage together in Photoshop.
The first 4 are trannie and the 3 blue shots are Nikon D2x which I was using before I got my Leaf Aptus 75
Cheers
Simon
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Gidday,
Thought I would throw in a selection of shots from over the years.
A mixture of trannie and digital and some montage together in Photoshop.
The first 4 are trannie and the 3 blue shots are Nikon D2x which I was using before I got my Leaf Aptus 75
Cheers
Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176041\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yeah
Quentin
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you guys do great
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you guys do great
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176816\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Agreed! Gorgeous!