Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: kaelaria on February 08, 2008, 08:13:50 pm
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Would anyone be interested in a DIY for making a darn good copy of the D-Roller for $30 in material from Home Depot and Walmart? And I don't mean a homebrew solution like empty paper tube, pulldown shade, etc., I mean real materials with the same purposes as the original design.
If this would ruffle feathers I won't post it...but $250 was too rediculous to even consider, given what it actually is.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173425\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I had quite a few homemade "d-rollers" but after make more and more prints and so on I decided to get a real one. Would neber want to go back. I just love it. Also compared to camera stuff or other things 200$ isn't a lot.
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Please, feel free to elaborate, I just ordered a 17" roll of Gold Fibre Silk and might need it. Thanks, Jim
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Would anyone be interested in a DIY for making a darn good copy of the D-Roller for $30 in material from Home Depot and Walmart? And I don't mean a homebrew solution like empty paper tube, pulldown shade, etc., I mean real materials with the same purposes as the original design.
We are waiting!!
Henk
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What about using this roller blind from IKEA:
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90122573 (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90122573)
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I'd be interested as well. I did a home made version, but couldn't source the mylar in anything less than a full roll so just used sheet plastic and some PVC tubing. It works OK, but I'd rather have mylar/acetate - or whatever it is supposed to be.
I'm also interested in what folks do to d-roll the first foot or so of the end of the roll on a wide (17") printer. If it's tightly curled it's a PITA to get it fed...
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I'll put together a PDF tomorrow
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173455\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hey! Tomorrow's almost over. Where are those plans?
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I'd love to see these plans.
Good luck with getting everything else done so you have some time.
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The document downloads here as a .php file (??), but rename it .pdf and it works fine. Many thanks for your trouble. David
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Thanks for sharing!
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Yep. Many thanks for sharing.
_michel
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Download the file and rename the file extension to .mp4. The extension on the downloaded file is a mac extension.
Jim
Thanks so much. I got the pdf download but can't open the movie. What am I doing wrong?
Sharon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173967\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I can't open it either, I'm on a G5, OS10.4.1. Jim
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Thanks Kaelaria
Gee, thank goodness you don't look anything like Borat! Two would be one too many
Both files are great and show how easy it is to save over $200 - Can't imagine how D-Roller can patent something this simple if their pending patent application is ultimately successful - either the patent office is too lenient, or I am missing something in their tutorial. The only thing mentioned is searching for a special laminate for the job - that doesn't sound like invention, but rather discovery and selection of a good material choice for the job at hand.
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Many thanks for sharing.
Henk
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The best thing to use is the end of a roll of some smooth, cheap paper, like Epson Presentation matte or a Red River roll. If you're printing on one now, save the last few feet, and roll your curly prints in it.
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I think one of the important areas for adding to this design is the actual weight of the roller.
I get the feeling that the original one is quite solid, much, much more solid than a PVC tube, which would make sense that the idea of this is to reverse the shape of the paper fibers causing the curl. Of course you can press on it when you roll but I reckon a heavier core may do an even better job.
I suggest filling the tube with sand or something even heavier, (small ball bearings?) and sealing the ends.
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I don't view that as best in any situation.
I don't want to ruffle feathers but could you explain why?
Thinking out loud : is that a problem of tighter rolling with more adhesive/static materials?
Or scuffling the surface of delicate matte prints with not-so-smooth paper?
Up to now, I've been quite OK using a coated paper roll on my premium glossy panos...
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The d-roller and my version protect the print, that's the point. It won't crease, smudge, scratch, bleed, etc. The fiber pull is even and consistantly held at all times.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174840\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
OK, thanks - and moreover, maaaany thanks for sharing the plans!
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I haven't tried the method outlined in the plans but I've done some experimenting with my own very simple D-Roller. The problem I find is that with a thick rag paper, the thickness of the paper itself creates a ridge. Each time you roll that ridge over on top of the paper underneath, it can put a dent or crease all the way across the paper. I don't know if this design eliminates that problem but it's enough to create a very visible crease which is impossible to get out once it's done.
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I want to share my experience with the D-Curler design above. I downloaded the .pdf and built a couple of them according to the plans. No real trouble with the build, though it's not an inconsequential effort.
One note on the window films. There are two types and they're not clearly marked as to which is which. One is the static cling type and the other is actually adhesive based. The smoke color mentioned in the pdf is a static cling type. I mistakenly bought an adhesive based one because it was the size that best fit my plans. Wound up trashing it and it cost $18. Anything that is frosted or claims to have metal content is probably not the right kind.
It's a very clever plan and yields a very workable arrangement. The vinyl makes a nice surface for the print to lie on and the static cling film works perfectly to hold the print in place while you go do something else. It takes only a moment really to flatten the print. No need to leave it for a long time. I'm using about a 2" diameter piece of pvc pipe and it seems about perfect.
However, there is one major problem that I have been unable to solve. Because of the bump formed on the roll where the print meets the roller, the device will leave a subtle crease in the print each time the leading edge rolls over the print. With my roller, that meant a crease about every 6" or so. Nothing I have found so far has eliminated that crease. No amount of increasing or decreasing pressure or loosening the tension on the roll has solved the problem at all. You won't see the crease in good flat light but with any oblique light source it will be painfully obvious. And there seems to be no way to remove it once it's there.
I would, of course, welcome input from anyone who has solved this problem because the device is fast and easy to use and removed the roll from a print almost immediately. But the crease has been a fatal flaw for me. I have not tried the side strips mentioned above. They might just work as they could prevent the paper from touching the rest of the print. It's worth a try, but I suspect there might still be an issue. The leading edge of the paper wants very badly to pull away from the roll and that's what causes the crease.
What has, however, worked very well for me is simply to spray a very light mist of water on the back of the print. I am working with a heavy watercolor paper. This would obviously not apply to a conventional photo paper. But then the photo paper may not crease either. I haven't tested it. Anyway, the mist of water caused the print to relax almost immediately. I've been putting a piece of foam core and a little weight on the print while it dries but it hardly seems necessary.
There tends to be a little residual curl at the edges of the sheet and the D-Curler does a very nice job of removing that. Just don't roll past the point where the leading edge of the paper rolls over onto the rest of the print.
I hope this is helpful to people considering making the device. It has it's place in removing the curl at the edge of the sheet and it may work with less fragile papers such as conventional photo papers but it will not solve the issue of flattening fine art papers unless you plan to mount the print, thus removing the subtle crease.
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I added the silicone side strips to my d-curler and it's made a big difference. By raising the roller up off of the print, it minimizes contact of the leading edge with the rest of the print. There remains maybe a little crease on the first roll but generally none after that. It's unlikely that prints of the size I am un-curling will be framed without some form of mounting and this will easily remove any remaining crease. If you need perfectly unrolled prints then there remains a chance of some light creasing of the print.
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OK, I just realized the complaint email I got was a fake (unless Michael suddenly uses Hotmail - lol)
Here you go, enjoy!
EDIT - v2 was missing a step - after sqeegee, trim the film to match the vinyl.
v2.1 uploaded.
I checked out the PDF, and I thank you for your offer. Aside from the very promising-looking uncurler, just the amount of work you did on the instructions is impressive.
Even though I have two left feet and am all thumbs, I think I'll be able to succeed making your project.
Many thanks.
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How do you deal with dust or grit collecting on the static film and then contacting the surface of the print?
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Thanks Walter
I keep it rolled up.
Of course... But what about when it's open on your table before rolling the print? The now face-down side is what ends up against the print surface. From experience I know that choice of material is a virtual crap-magnet and can easily pick up crud off the surface you're using (even paper or mat dust) where the commercial version uses a special surface that supposedly helps avoid that.
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It wipes clean with a cloth, nothing special. Yes I have accidentally used a dirty table surface and had to then clean both sides - I make sure the surface is clean now!! It's not like it's flypaper or something
Understood, but it sounds like a shortcoming of the home-built when compared to the commercial version, and perhaps worthy of consideration before one starts down the path?
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Kaelaria,
Thanks for the design, I plan on giving it a go. Could this slight repeating crease be caused from the thickness of the start of the sheets on the tube? The reason I ask, if you go to Inkjetart web site and read the description of the D-Roller you'll see the following line:
<3. Where the white carrier film attaches to the De-Roller tube, there is virtually no seam <that could cause a crease mark on your prints!
I've never seen one of these D-Rollers, what do they do to get rid of this seam? Do they machine a groove in the tube to help the transition between the sheet and tube?
I'm a machinist in my day job, and it would be quite easy to machine a groove in the tube to help this transition if needed.
Also, I assume that antistatic sheet is up and contacts the face of the print when rolled, and this is the side where the helper strips go?
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Yes that's where you put the strips, the print sits in between them. I don't start the print on the roller side, I start it at the end. It may certainly be too tight without any give if you were to get it too close. I made my roller nice and long to do panos so I would have a lot of buffer zone. I can see where a relief groove would do the same if you wanted to start at that end.
Thanks for the quick reply,
OK, after looking at the vid, that really helped (it didn't work for me until just a hour ago, I had Quick time reinstalled, as it was corrupted) I see that it doesn't matter which side the print faces, its the curl that matters.
If I got you right, after you roll most of the sheet on the tube, that smooths out the transition, then putting the print about a foot from the end of the 5 foot sheet and roll.
How long are the helper strips? I take it that they start at the end of the sheet away from the roll end? First I'll see if I need them.
Sorry for all of the questions, but I think I've got it.
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I hope I am not raining on anyone's parade here, but I spent a significant amount of time and effort building a couple of d-curlers with the plans listed here. They work pretty well on thin photo type papers but created repeated creases in heavier watercolor paper. I tried all the fixes listed here. I finally bought a D-Roller (the official commercial version) and it immediately solved all my problems. Absolutely flawless flattening without any creases.
I got mine from Jason Adams at Shades of Paper. I got the 50" x 1.5" version and it's the best $285 I ever spent.
I'm just trying to spare people a lot of effort and expense building something that may not work for their purposes. I commend the design and the intent of this thread but recommend the commercial product if you can possibly afford it. The waste involved in creasing a lot of expensive paper, complaints from galleries and clients, etc. was far more than the cost of the D-Roller.
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I'm just trying to spare people a lot of effort and expense building something that may not work for their purposes. I commend the design and the intent of this thread but recommend the commercial product if you can possibly afford it. The waste involved in creasing a lot of expensive paper, complaints from galleries and clients, etc. was far more than the cost of the D-Roller.
I'm with you, Curtis. I finally threw in the towel a few weeks ago and bought a d-roller from Shades of Paper. I should have done it a year ago.
Neil
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In the end, I bought the commercial Bienfang print decurler too. The sheet material they use does not seem to suck up crud from the surrounding areas, a concern I had. I got the 1-1/2" spindle version and it works great on Harman gloss, just need to keep it rolled for about 30 seconds before releasing.
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I'm with you, Curtis. I finally threw in the towel a few weeks ago and bought a d-roller from Shades of Paper. I should have done it a year ago.
Neil
Me too !! But I should have done it 5 years ago
It's really amazing.
/Sven
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I don't understand why many of you feel this is such a hassle. My printer (3800) as everyone knows does not have a roll adapter. I wanted to take advantage of the fact it will print to 37" in length. I ordered a roll of Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta. When it arrived I took it down to my framers. She cut the entire roll into 37" pieces for me. I took the sheets home, laid them on the floor under my work table and put some heavy books on them. The next day they were perfectly flat. Cost = $0. BTW, they feed and print perfectly.
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Gang,
After reviewing the thread..I see cost is a Major concern on the D-roller. Going Back a Year The D-Roller had a 50.00 Mail in Rebate..Many where sold..
Here is my question.. whats the magic price point? I am sure that if I Go to them with a plan I can make a large purchase But That will only save a few dollars.. Or is a Mail in Rebate the answer.. Or is combo deal best..
Any Ideas are welcome. As many of you know I am a consumer oriented supplier!
In The meantime I Can do this..10% Off The D-roller for the month of June 2010. Just Place In Comments as Per JJD Now If you bought a D-roller In The Past at full Price I'll give you the 10% off The D-roller as a Credit towards Paper..Put In Comments as Per JJD Or Just Call The Office I will go over it with my team on Monday AM
Hope This Helps a Little bit
Cheers
Jim Doyle
SHades Of Paper
856-787-9200
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Hi Jim,
I enjoy dealing with you guys. Wish I had known you would have some flexibility in the price. I tried to buy one of these from you the other day, but my sales person (Jason) said he could no longer do $50 off nor could he discount at all and I think shipping was at normal price and extra. I did buy my Canon 8300 from you and all my paper so far. Ended up buying it at one of your competitors:
http://www.inkjetart.com/cart/roller-model-width-p-7878.html (http://www.inkjetart.com/cart/roller-model-width-p-7878.html)
$250 with $5 shipping for the 50" model. Still seems expensive to me for what it is, but I would rather not mess with making my own. That was at the upper end for what I was willing to pay if that helps. Seemed like most other sellers were charging $289 plus shipping. I have no clue why it costs so much except that it is the only game in a small town....
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Steve
Thanks for the info..I do appreciate it!
Cheers
Jim Doyle
SHades Of Paper
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Where is the PDF? I want to see this design to compare to the one that I made awhile back.
john
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D-roller is discounted for our Daily Sale. Give a call. If you're a day late, still call.
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I came across this thread some time ago, and noticed that the original posting had been removed.
Recently I was looking for resellers of the D-roller device in my geographic area, and noticed that a similar posting at another internet forum had also been removed.
That made me curious, and got me to thinking that the current patent assignee might perhaps have been issuing cease and desist letters to folks who posted their plans for home-made uncurling devices.
If anyone is interested such trivia, the relevant patent seems to be US patent 6,996,514 B2, originally by Donald Dressler, and subsequently assigned.
Interestingly, I also came across descriptions of remarkably similar devices, which were published prior to the patent application, but I am not qualified to comment on how that might potentially affect the patent.