Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: SouthFla on January 29, 2008, 11:12:56 am
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Okay, several hours/days of googling and searching and I'm still in a quandry...
I'm starting to shift from "traditional" printing/matting/framing on cotton rag to stretching my work on canvas. Unfortunately I have many unanswered questions concerning coating the stretched canvas print, and I need to get my act together fairly quickly for an upcoming exhibit. As an FYI I'm trying out PremierArt's Smooth Matte canvas (and printing on Epson 400 + 9600)...
If anyone here has experience with coating canvas prints with PremierArt products, here are my questions:
1) Do you use the Print Shield Spray or the Eco Shield?
2) Do you coat before or after stretching?
3) If you use the Eco Shield, do you use the glossy, satin, or matte finish, and on what type/brand of canvas?
4) If you use the Eco shield, how do you apply (brush, roll, HLVP)?
Any and all advice and tips are welcomed. Many thanks all!!!
John
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John
I've been printing on nothing but canvas for about 14 months now. I print on Epson canvas and protect it with PremierArt print shield with excellent results. I apply several coats prior to stretching. My workflow is normally allowing the print to sit for 24 hrs after printing then spray and wait a couple hours prior to stretching.
Others use other methods so you are likely to get other opinions - my suggestion to try and sample as many as possible before making your decision. I have more room to hang canvas on a wall to spray than I have to apply other products while laying flat so spraying works best for me.
don
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John,
I use Eco Shield (Satin) on Fredrix 901WR matte canvas and Brilliance Chromata White canvas. I coat before I stretch.
I spray on the coating using a "Wagner Control Spray" gun. This gun works perfectly, very simple setup... odorless, wide spray, very little over-spray, covers large canvases quickly... I do wear a mask. I strain the Eco Shield first. I have a separate garage building/workshop where I do all my spraying. In low humidity it dries quickly,... I usually spray 3 to 4 light coats.
I'll coat the canvas a day after printing. I can stretch a few hours after the last coat dries, but the coating will take a few days to completely harden, so you'll need to handle the canvas a bit carefully when stretching.
Best
Andrew
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John
I've been printing on nothing but canvas for about 14 months now. I print on Epson canvas and protect it with PremierArt print shield with excellent results. I apply several coats prior to stretching. My workflow is normally allowing the print to sit for 24 hrs after printing then spray and wait a couple hours prior to stretching.
don
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Don, you obviously haven't had any problems with cracking using the spray? PremierArt's website indicates that the spray is NOT crack resistant. Is there any particular reason why you spray before stretching? I was contemplating printing, drying, stretching then spraying...
John,
I use Eco Shield (Satin) on Fredrix 901WR matte canvas and Brilliance Chromata White canvas. I coat before I stretch.
I spray on the coating using a "Wagner Control Spray" gun. This gun works perfectly, very simple setup... odorless, wide spray, very little over-spray, covers large canvases quickly... I do wear a mask. I strain the Eco Shield first. I have a separate garage building/workshop where I do all my spraying. In low humidity it dries quickly,... I usually spray 3 to 4 light coats.
I'll coat the canvas a day after printing. I can stretch a few hours after the last coat dries, but the coating will take a few days to completely harden, so you'll need to handle the canvas a bit carefully when stretching.
Best
Andrew
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170654\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks Andrew. I was looking at the Wagner gun as a solution even before you posted! If you can, can you explain how and why you strain the ECO before spraying?
Thanks very much to both of you for the input. As soon as my canvas rolls arrive, I plan on trying both of these methods on small pieces.
John
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Don, you obviously haven't had any problems with cracking using the spray? PremierArt's website indicates that the spray is NOT crack resistant. Is there any particular reason why you spray before stretching? I was contemplating printing, drying, stretching then spraying...
Thanks Andrew. I was looking at the Wagner gun as a solution even before you posted! If you can, can you explain how and why you strain the ECO before spraying?
Thanks very much to both of you for the input. As soon as my canvas rolls arrive, I plan on trying both of these methods on small pieces.
John
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I've use Art Sheild from spray cans for several years with excellant results. I print, let cure for 24 hrs., then spray 4 coats, vertical, horiontal, vertical, horizontal. Let sit for at least 2 hrs. then stretch. I purchase cans by case from ITSupplies.com.
Richard
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Thanks Andrew. I was looking at the Wagner gun as a solution even before you posted! If you can, can you explain how and why you strain the ECO before spraying?
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John,
The problem varies, but there are small coagulated lumps and particles in the Eco.
I've noticed this is more of a problem in the quart size and less in the gallon size.
I strain just is case anyway to head off any problems with clogging or inconsistencies in the coat.
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Another option, use Clearstar or glamour II. Both are water based and will allow for easy clean up.
If you are making large canvas prints, don't even consider rolling as you will pull ink off the canvas. Also I would stay away from brushing unless you like the look. It will go on uneven and sometimes leave brush marks, i.e a distrested look.
For my canvas, I am using either Lexjet's Sunset Gloss Canvas (excellent smooth weave) or Epson's glossy canvas, (more of a traditional look and feel).
After printing, allow for 24 hours to allow the ink to set, Epson 9880 K3. Then you can coat them. I use a Wagner HVLP (high volume low pressure) sprayer. You will need to create a booth of some sort for spraying. This method will give you excellent coverage and when dry, the coating is very protective against scratches and finger prints.
Note I would recommend spraying before stretching the coating will not crack when you stretch. Clearstar makes both full gloss and semi gloss not sure on the glamour II.
Paul C
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For those using the Wagner guns, what model of Wagner guns are you using? there are multip HVLP guns on the Wagner site, which would you recommend?
Thanks
Fernand
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Wagner, has no model number on the outside of the box which is interesting.
They call it a HVLP Control Spray, Lock and Go.
On the actual sprayer, the model number is $0417201.
Paul C
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Another option, use Clearstar or glamour II. Both are water based and will allow for easy clean up.
If you are making large canvas prints, don't even consider rolling as you will pull ink off the canvas. Paul C
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I've never experienced "pulling ink off the canvas" by rolling with Glamour II. I just finished printing a 41x89 panorama on an Epson 9800 (final image 36x84 gallery wrap). Glamour II worked well with a small foam roller. I wait 12-24 hours after printing before sealing with Glamour II. Breathing Color's Chromata White is my choice of media for canvas.
ken
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I am currently using PremierArts Print Shield on canvas (coating before stretching). Previously I used a water based acrylic coating - it gave very good cracking and scratch resistance but I had continuous problems with application(rollers).
I have found that Print Shield does not protect against cracking anywhere near as well as my previous coating - so I have to take great care with rounding the frame edges (front and back) - but find it very easy to spray. Also I find that I need a significant number of coats for a uniform finish. The finish is also not as scratch resistant as the acrylic.
I want to try another product - maybe a water based coating that I can spray?
Clearstar sounds good.
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Ken makes a good point. and I should have been more specific.
I tried to roll on Clearstar, not Glamour II. This was on a 27 x 37 canvas and it ruined the canvas. I was using Lexjet Sunset Gloss. The inkset was K3 9880. I had let the canvas dry for around 36 hours. I didn't try to mix the clearstar with Distilled water just tried to roll it on straight. As soon as the roller hit, (foam roller), and I started up the print, you could see ink coming off and onto the roller. It pulled enough ink off the print that I couldn't use it.
However by using a HVLP sprayer, it goes on perfect, dries in about 30 minutes. I put on about 3 coats.
Paul Caldwell
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Ken makes a good point. and I should have been more specific.
I tried to roll on Clearstar, not Glamour II. This was on a 27 x 37 canvas and it ruined the canvas. I was using Lexjet Sunset Gloss. The inkset was K3 9880. I had let the canvas dry for around 36 hours. I didn't try to mix the clearstar with Distilled water just tried to roll it on straight. As soon as the roller hit, (foam roller), and I started up the print, you could see ink coming off and onto the roller. It pulled enough ink off the print that I couldn't use it.
However by using a HVLP sprayer, it goes on perfect, dries in about 30 minutes. I put on about 3 coats.
Paul Caldwell
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I made the error of using Clearstar other than Clearstar Type C for canvas and it lifted ink (HP z3100). Using the Type C, which is the only recommended type for canvas, hasn't produced any ink lifting when rolled. I mention this just in case folks are making the same error I had in the choice of Clearstar product.
David V. Ward, Ph. D.
www.dvward.com
David V. Ward Fine Art Photography
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I am curious on the rationale behind spraying before stretching. I have sprayed after stretching for many pieces now, and it seems to work fine.
Mark
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Wagner, has no model number on the outside of the box which is interesting.
They call it a HVLP Control Spray, Lock and Go.
On the actual sprayer, the model number is $0417201.
Paul C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171555\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks alot
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I am curious on the rationale behind spraying before stretching. I have sprayed after stretching for many pieces now, and it seems to work fine.
Mark
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It certainly can be done. But if you're not very careful the surface can be easily marred during the stretching process. I gallery stretch and staple on back, so the surface is faced down. If I spray first I don't have to worry about accidents and reprinting.
Andrew
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Hey gang, thanks for all of the great input and advice. I've got canvas, eco shield satin and the wagner gun on the way so I'll take what I've learned and see how it goes. Can't wait to display my first canvas!
Cheers,
John
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The main reason I am spraying before stretching, is the same as Andrew's. The coating put a very good protective coating on the print and you don't have to worry about damaging it during the stretching. I also don't stretch all of my Canvas work right away so by coating it, I can handle the finished work easily.
What has happened to me in the past, is when you roll up a canvas even with a protective layer of paper on top, often times, a piece of the material will get on the print and then when you take it off, you get a spot.
Paul Caldwell
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Ah, good points! Another thing I was thinking was that spraying after stretching helps with shrinking and tightening the canvas a tiny bit. Perhaps not, but I have seen some other sprays advertised to spray on the non-printable side of the canvas that is also supposed to help with tightening to the stretcher bars.
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We use GEO Glossy Canvas from Digital Art Supplies. It is hands down the best canvas we've used (Epson, Breathing Color Chromata White, Magic). The gloss is stunning, exceptionally waterfast, and it stretches like a dream, with no tearing or cracking.
http://www.digitalartsupplies.com/store/DA...ssy_Canvas.html (http://www.digitalartsupplies.com/store/DAS_GEO_Water_Resistant_Glossy_Canvas.html)
If you haven't tried it, get a sample now! (I have no affiliation with DAS)
After we print, we spray with PrintShield, once horizontally, and then once vertically.
We then mount on gallery bars (using pliers - hopefully a Tensador or similar soon) and finish the back with black foam board.
I've tried rolling in the past, using the Breathing Color Glamour II, but always seem to get dust, hairs, and other particles on the canvas in the process. I'd like to do HVLP, but I don't think we have enough room.
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I used to spray some and mostly roll coat canvas with liquid laminates (Glammor II and Printshield).
I now use heat set film laminate. The quality/look is so much better. No cleanup, no dust/dirt, no overspray, no waiting for canvas to dry. I can print 40' roll to roll and then laminate roll to roll. Only in rare cases would I go back to liquid spraying or roll coating. And one more thing the retaining of the canvas is texture is completely there. Something I could never achieve with a liquid coating.
Doyle
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Just to give you a idea in the time since I last posted I have laminated 2400 sq. ft. of canvas. That was 35 canvas prints all trimmed and ready to stretch.
Doyle
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Just to give you a idea in the time since I last posted I have laminated 2400 sq. ft. of canvas. That was 35 canvas prints all trimmed and ready to stretch.
Doyle
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That's rather impressive. Now I feel like a slacker. I only printed an 8.5x11 on my laser printer
Doyle, what laminating equipment and film are you using, and what canvas? Also, I haven't heard of laminating canvas. Is there any downside as far as longevity is concerned, as the canvas is unable to "breathe"?
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Doyle:
Man, I would love to hear about the products that you use. And I wonder if your math is really correct (or is it too early for me to divide correctly?) - you are saying that you did all of this in less than three hours? That would be 600 running feet of 44" wide canvas (35 - 17' long prints on 15 rolls). In three hours, really? That must be one monster you laminate with running at high speed! Details would be great. Thanks..
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Whops, I had an extra 0 there. that should have been around 240 sq ft. little over 60ft. of 42" canvas.
This was on Breathing Color canvas with Seal's heat set Print Guard laminate. The laminator is a Seal 6100 Ultra.
As for allowing the canvas to breath I don't see where it would be any different than liquid coating. This also allows you to print with the extra gamut of gloss canvas and not worry about the non water resistant problem of liquid coating gloss canvas.
And it make for a much tougher finish.
The only down side I see is that the finish is to perfect and does not look hand done. It make the canvas I little bit more ridged than liquid coatings. I use a stretching machine so that is not an issue for me.
PM me if you want any samples.
Doyle
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Thanks Doyle - I feel a lot better now! I thought my calculator was waay off...That is still a lot of canvas though...
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Hey all, just a quick update for any of you following the thread...
Just finished my first roll of canvas and thought I'd share my results. I printed on a 44" roll of PremierArt Smooth Matte Canvas (http://www.inkjetart.com/premier/Smooth_Matte_Canvas.html) and absolutely LOVED the results. Granted, I've not yet printed on another type of canvas, so take that for what it's worth, but I find the results amazing. I printed, coated and stretched +10 30"x40" prints and a bunch of various size panos, and I really am happy with how things worked out.
I bought a Wagner HLVP "Spray Tech Control Spray" (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100371397) gun, and used Premier Art's Satin Eco Print Shield (http://www.inkjetart.com/premier/eco.html). The gun and Eco went on smoothly and perfectly; three light coats and the results look great.
I bought Heavy Duty Stretcher Bars (http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_products.cfm?classID=1317&subclassID=131711) from Utrecht, and am using a $40 electric staple gun with stainless steel staples.
I have to admit that the whole canvas printing, coating and stretching was WAY easier to learn and "master" if you will than learning to properly cut mats, mount on backing boards, and frame my work.
I've got 3 shows in the next 5 weeks, so I'm anxious to see how my canvas work is received. Many thanks again for all of your input and guidance.
Cheers!
John
(http://www.imagesbyjda.com/Web_Photos/canvas1.jpg)
(http://www.imagesbyjda.com/Web_Photos/canvas2.jpg)
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Hello,
In the Eco Print Shield video tutorials ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0DxcN5w0Nw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0DxcN5w0Nw) ), it is recommended to use gloss for the first coats, and the preferred finish, gloss, satin, or matte for the final coat. Are folks using the same finish for all three coats, or using gloss and finishing with the preferred gloss level?
Thanks!
Michael Morrison