Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: ohshannon on January 26, 2008, 01:09:30 pm
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i have been searching the right combo for interior photography but can't really find the perfect setting ,
i am thinking to get the Mamiya ZD back with AFD II body , but lens are limited , the 35mm is not wide enough and 28mm are so costy .
can anyone advise me that what should i get for interior photography , or would any body can please kindly share your settings for landscape or architecture/interior photography?
Many many thx. any advise is appreciate!!
S.
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I shoot interiors.
My set up :
- canon 5d and 24 to 85. Though I am mostly at 28mm for wide. Rarely wider and never really need for wider than 24mm.
- mam 645 on film with 35mm (22mm equiv. in 35mm format) and 80mm and 55mm.
Again I use more the 55mm than the 35mm. Though in the "recent work" thread I did post an image made with the 35mm so sure I wouldn't get rid of it.
I like the 35mm and I have no need for wider.
To me you would have a nice set up with 35mm, 55mm, and something above for close up with #1 and 2 extensions rings.
Sorry but I can't provide any info on the DB.
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I shoot interiors. Just moved from a 5D to an H3D with 28mm.
I end up shooting a lot of bathrooms and kitchens, and find ultrawide necessary frequently. General usage I'd guess the 35mm is probably fine, but for powder rooms and the like even the 28 can be tough.
With the 5D I used 2 primary lenses, the 17-40 (and corrected distortion PP), and a pentax FA 645 35mm with a Zoerk adaptor.
The zoerk adaptor route provided quality and shift, but was fiddly. Mine is for sale along with the pentax lens if interested.
The H3D is fantastic so far, and the 28mm... wow!
What about a zd back and a plate camera?
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First thing is to decide what level you are aimed at and then make budget dependant decisions..i.e. 35mm dslr or medium format digital back route.
Personally I do not feel right shooting interiors / exteriors without a lens / camera that allows rise/fall /shift for any large interiors such as museums, office lobbies, etc and more importantly exteriors that so often go alongside the interiors in any shoot; so I currently use a full frame 5d with 3 lenses. 16-35mk2, 24mm shift, and my 24-105mm for any detail / longer exterior shots.
I would say that 80% of the exteriors I shoot with my dslr are with the 24mm shift lens.
The other 20% I wish there was a wider shift lens for the dslr!
I also use a 54 film camera set up for when the 5d is not good enough purely in terms of image quality as far as the job/client is concerned.
Given the budget I would quite happily swap the film based 54 and use a mfdb instead but only on a camera that gives me the movements and wide lenses needed for interior / exterior work. (smaller view camera, etc) as I really do prefer to correct verticals etc in camera rather than later in PS.
We are so lucky these days with digital shooting mainly in terms of not having to worry so much on site about mixed lighting etc but even then I still use an expodisk when possible.
I think in general though the most important thing is for this work to simply make sure you are never short of the necessary gear.
I can't thing of anything worse than not being able to get a shot because my widest lens is a 24mm etc. but that is just my view and of course it does depend on what you shoot, but better to have it (especially here in the cramped uk!) and not use it than...etc, etc.
Marc
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I guess it depends on your budget, but a view camera or a camera such as the cambo wide ds.
I think horseman also makes a wide camera with rise and fall at a really nice price, but the name escapes me.
Anyway I would stick with a camera system that allows rise and fall.
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enough and 28mm are so costy [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169766\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you are on a limited budget whats the point of investing in half an MF system
Buy a 1DS3 and every TS lens they make
Consider a Used H2 - that may cost the same as a new Mamiya and the hassy 28 is much cheaper as it is a 'digital only' lens with a smaller image circle
S
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Consider a Used H2 - that may cost the same as a new Mamiya and the hassy 28 is much cheaper as it is a 'digital only' lens with a smaller image circle
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Unfortunately, the new 28 lens will only fit the H3D, not the H1/2, because of the software-correction design approach.
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Unfortunately, the new 28 lens will only fit the H3D, not the H1/2, because of the software-correction design approach.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169911\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well I meant a 22mp blad - I dont keep up with the names - H3D 22 ?
S
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I shoot interiors. Just moved from a 5D to an H3D with 28mm.
I end up shooting a lot of bathrooms and kitchens, and find ultrawide necessary frequently. General usage I'd guess the 35mm is probably fine, but for powder rooms and the like even the 28 can be tough.
With the 5D I used 2 primary lenses, the 17-40 (and corrected distortion PP), and a pentax FA 645 35mm with a Zoerk adaptor.
The zoerk adaptor route provided quality and shift, but was fiddly. Mine is for sale along with the pentax lens if interested.
The H3D is fantastic so far, and the 28mm... wow!
What about a zd back and a plate camera?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169774\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just curious as to what is fiddly? What didn't you like about the Zoerk and Pentax combo?
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I would recommend the Cambo Wide DS and a P45 or P45+, but it depends on your budget.
Take a look at this link to our web site. It will show you several of our clients and what digital backs they are shooting with. All of the architectural shooters are on the Cambo Wide DS platform.
http://www.captureintegration.com/tools/ou...orite-websites/ (http://www.captureintegration.com/tools/our-favorite-websites/)
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
(404)234-5195 Cell
(404)522-7662 Atlanta
(305 )534-5701 Miami
(877 )217-9870 National
www.captureintegration.com
chris@captureintegration.com
PHASE ONE PARTNER OF THE YEAR - 2006
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Just curious as to what is fiddly? What didn't you like about the Zoerk and Pentax combo?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169955\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
For me the inability to frame the entire image through the viewfinder was a huge issue. I got around it 2 ways... one by mounting my 17-40, setting up the shot, then swapping out the lens. That's fiddly because its multiple steps, and the tripod mount for the zoerk would move my composition. I also picked up an external wide viewfinder, that helped quite a bit with this. Still not very exact though, particularly if you are backed into a corner trying to catch the edge of a kitchen cabinet or something.
On large shift the viewfinder of the 5D was atrocious. Meter didn't function well either, which wasn't such a big deal, unless you are trying to work quickly.
If you were stitching mutliple frames, not only did you have the post production work of merging the frames, but if you had to bracket (say some blown out windows for instance), that would be 3 frames shot, shift, 3 frames, shift, 3 frames. Even with a fast computer, this is a hassle! Also, what if your strobes are slightly inconsistent? Stitching frames gets worse...
Another niggle is perception. Working with an art director, you cannot show the image you are taking. Yes, you can explain what is going on, but for the most part people don't really get it. Show up with a 'blad and a macbook pro, and the client gets a substantially different perception. I purchased my mfdb last week, have run 2 shoots, both with a long term client, and they were very impressed by the equipment... Yes, I know it means nothing, quality work can be done on a 5d, etc, but impressing clients is a GOOD thing.
Now, after all the bitching about it, if you can master it, and deal with the niggles, it will produce MFDB quality, no problem. The pentax glass was fantastic (why did the 645d never happen, pentax?) It got me through enough jobs with high enough quality that I could afford to move to a (refurb, yes) H3D. Good enough!
I do miss having shift now though... gotta book some more jobs and pay off the back at this point before making another move. The 28 & 39mp back allow enough quality and resolution that for my clients I can cheat by using 'crop to rise' and or crop to a longer focal length.
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For me the inability to frame the entire image through the viewfinder was a huge issue. I got around it 2 ways... one by mounting my 17-40, setting up the shot, then swapping out the lens. That's fiddly because its multiple steps, and the tripod mount for the zoerk would move my composition. I also picked up an external wide viewfinder, that helped quite a bit with this. Still not very exact though, particularly if you are backed into a corner trying to catch the edge of a kitchen cabinet or something.
On large shift the viewfinder of the 5D was atrocious. Meter didn't function well either, which wasn't such a big deal, unless you are trying to work quickly.
If you were stitching mutliple frames, not only did you have the post production work of merging the frames, but if you had to bracket (say some blown out windows for instance), that would be 3 frames shot, shift, 3 frames, shift, 3 frames. Even with a fast computer, this is a hassle! Also, what if your strobes are slightly inconsistent? Stitching frames gets worse...
Another niggle is perception. Working with an art director, you cannot show the image you are taking. Yes, you can explain what is going on, but for the most part people don't really get it. Show up with a 'blad and a macbook pro, and the client gets a substantially different perception. I purchased my mfdb last week, have run 2 shoots, both with a long term client, and they were very impressed by the equipment... Yes, I know it means nothing, quality work can be done on a 5d, etc, but impressing clients is a GOOD thing.
Now, after all the bitching about it, if you can master it, and deal with the niggles, it will produce MFDB quality, no problem. The pentax glass was fantastic (why did the 645d never happen, pentax?) It got me through enough jobs with high enough quality that I could afford to move to a (refurb, yes) H3D. Good enough!
I do miss having shift now though... gotta book some more jobs and pay off the back at this point before making another move. The 28 & 39mp back allow enough quality and resolution that for my clients I can cheat by using 'crop to rise' and or crop to a longer focal length.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169968\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When you say you have trouble framing the image thru the viewfinder, do you mean showing the AD an image that will be stitched, or is there a problem with vignetting or the fact that you have to stop down and the finder is really dark at shooting aperture. I don't stitch, is there still a problem composing with Zoerk/Pentax combo that is different than using a t/s canon lens (aside from not having the meter function?
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When you say you have trouble framing the image thru the viewfinder, do you mean showing the AD an image that will be stitched, or is there a problem with vignetting or the fact that you have to stop down and the finder is really dark at shooting aperture. I don't stitch, is there still a problem composing with Zoerk/Pentax combo that is different than using a t/s canon lens (aside from not having the meter function?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169980\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, in regards to framing and dealing with AD I meant for stitching. The viewfinder is dark when just shifting, but if shooting single frames it's pretty easy to chimp and/or shoot tethered to deal with that.
If you don't stitch, and you don't mind being limited to a 35mm (on up) fov then the zoerk is great. A large amount of shift is available, and the quality is high.
I approached the zoerk as more of a quality/stitching solution than a straight shift solution, which I think was the downfall for me. As a shift solution it's just fine.
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I do all my interiors with this setup: 5d with sigma 12-24 and ZD with 50mm shift. the 12-24 covers all situations where you need extrem angle. the 50 shift on the ZD everything above that. of course the new 28mm mamiya woud be nice. i also have a mamiya 35mm but i dont like the sharpness (or the lack of it) and I am just experimenting with the 30mm arsat. it´s quite a bit wider thean the 35mm even when defished and quite sharp at the edges and very sharp in the center. it´s easy to correct the distortion and get a very flat/distortionless image.
the main advantage of a MF solutions (for me) is: the bigger contrast range - not so many blown highlights and very clean shadows. I dont know how the canon can produce usable images at 1000 iso but try to shoot at iso 100 and use lightrooms fill-light on the 5D and you get horrible shadows. with the ZD (at iso 50) you can realy push up the shadows and I ever see any noise.
if you go to my website and look at the "new" page, all the images there where shoot with this combo.
stefan
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For me the inability to frame the entire image through the viewfinder was a huge issue. Still not very exact though, particularly if you are backed into a corner trying to catch the edge of a kitchen cabinet or something.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169968\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is something I really dislike on the 5d with any lens for tight interiors work but am not sure any other 35mm dslr is any better. What you see in the viewfinder is far from what you get in the shot so when framing tight shots its really hit and miss..which means having to shoot, check the screen, recompose or zoom or move camera etc...not the way I like to work at all as it is both very inefficient and not exact enough.
Using a db on either mfslr or view camera would of course be much better in this regard as the sensor size is smaller than the camera size.
Marc
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What you see in the viewfinder is far from what you get in the shot so when framing tight shots its really hit and miss.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170012\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
marc ,
I am not sure what you mean. do you use a gridscreen on the 5d?
I do have that problem with the ZD (because I dont have a grid-screen). but I never have any difficulties framing with the 5d. the 12-24 even lets you zoom in so you can align vertical and horizontal lines in the room with the grid. they always come out the way I frame. I never have to reframe in LR. I just did a interior job with 500 different views. all of the 5d frames were 100% correct - 50% of the ZD shots I had to reframe in LR.
stefan
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deleted
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marc ,
I am not sure what you mean. do you use a gridscreen on the 5d?
I do have that problem with the ZD (because I dont have a grid-screen). but I never have any difficulties framing with the 5d. the 12-24 even lets you zoom in so you can align vertical and horizontal lines in the room with the grid. they always come out the way I frame. I never have to reframe in LR. I just did a interior job with 500 different views. all of the 5d frames were 100% correct - 50% of the ZD shots I had to reframe in LR.
stefan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170045\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Stefan,
Yes I do use the grid screen on the 5d and with the canon 16-35mk2 the viewfinder shows less than what I get in the actual shot.
I'm going away for a couple of weeks but will test it out with a non gridded screen I have also and the other lenses to see what is going on when I get back.
Marc
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I've never seen anyone make dull concrete look so good - especially with the contrast of the colourful chairs at the bottom of the stairs. Also your shots of the badly planned Scottish town were thoughtful and captured the sadness of the town. Great work Stefan!
Sean
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I've never seen anyone make dull concrete look so good - especially with the contrast of the colourful chairs at the bottom of the stairs. Also your shots of the badly planned Scottish town were thoughtful and captured the sadness of the town. Great work Stefan!
Sean
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170099\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sean,
thanks a lot for your kind words. the pics of this scottish town are about 2 years old. ( I revisited the place a few weeks ago and found a hugh new shopping center where I took my photos before. i tried to take some shoots from the same position as the last time to capture the change - but got taken by the security to the shopping center management who did not want me to take pictures of their building. I mummbled something about my rights to take pictures (as long as not ON their grounds...) but got so angry about that i just left (still managing to take some shots).
stefan
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Stephan,
You are welcome. Your aesthetic about the contrast with the concrete and colourful chairs is something that I admire and aspire to. I'm often tempted to go to a construction site (after hours) and put an object and photograph the contrast. But it is a dreadful Winter over here so now's not the time for that.
I think that the security guards were aware of the town's (and their shopping centre's) decline. It is unfortunate that they don't appreciate art or the irony of the situation (a so-called perfect town now a centrepiece of ugliness). But then we don't have to live and rot there. At least they didn't wreck your equipment.
Keep up the good work; you are an inspiration to the rest of us.
Sean
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Hi Stefan,
Yes I do use the grid screen on the 5d and with the canon 16-35mk2 the viewfinder shows less than what I get in the actual shot.
I'm going away for a couple of weeks but will test it out with a non gridded screen I have also and the other lenses to see what is going on when I get back.
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170052\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
so tested this again and on my 5d with all lenses the framing is not 100%.
I've tried with three lenses, 2 differnet screens (grid and non grid)...anyone else have this issue...its a real pain?
now found this info so it seems to be normal with the 5d..stephan, how do you not get this problem?
"Canon implemented a new viewfinder on the EOS 5D, covering 96% of the recorded frame in a 0.71x magnified perspective. The viewfinder has a 20mm eyepoint with a -3 to +1 dioptric adjustment. Some users may object to the 96% coverage, seeking the full 100% view provided by the 1Ds Mark II; however, those who have made a career shooting with 35mm bodies have likely become accustomed to the crop and have learned to work with it. Those who remain disenchanted with the 5D’s viewfinder coverage might at least take solace in the manner in which the view is altered. Unlike the 20D, which primarily took its 5% liberties from the top and left segments of the frame, the discrepancy in the 5D’s recorded frame is much more evenly dispersed. Files recorded with the EOS 5D will contain about an eighth of an inch more of the scene all around the frame, resulting in a far more accurate representation of the composition."
although having put up with it for the last few months its now getting to be a real pain...takes the art and technique out of strict viewfinder composition in interiors.
Marc
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so tested this again and on my 5d with all lenses the framing is not 100%.
I've tried with three lenses, 2 differnet screens (grid and non grid)...anyone else have this issue...its a real pain?
now found this info so it seems to be normal with the 5d..stephan, how do you not get this problem?
"Canon implemented a new viewfinder on the EOS 5D, covering 96% of the recorded frame in a 0.71x magnified perspective. The viewfinder has a 20mm eyepoint with a -3 to +1 dioptric adjustment. Some users may object to the 96% coverage, seeking the full 100% view provided by the 1Ds Mark II; however, those who have made a career shooting with 35mm bodies have likely become accustomed to the crop and have learned to work with it. Those who remain disenchanted with the 5D’s viewfinder coverage might at least take solace in the manner in which the view is altered. Unlike the 20D, which primarily took its 5% liberties from the top and left segments of the frame, the discrepancy in the 5D’s recorded frame is much more evenly dispersed. Files recorded with the EOS 5D will contain about an eighth of an inch more of the scene all around the frame, resulting in a far more accurate representation of the composition."
although having put up with it for the last few months its now getting to be a real pain...takes the art and technique out of strict viewfinder composition in interiors.
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177762\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The canon 5d is strictly spoken a camera for the amateur market. You only pay half or less the price of the pro bodies, so there must be a difference. Get a DSIII or a hasselblad and everything will be OK ;-)
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The canon 5d is strictly spoken a camera for the amateur market. You only pay half or less the price of the pro bodies, so there must be a difference. Get a DSIII or a hasselblad and everything will be OK ;-)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177768\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I know, I know!!...it's all in the pipeline!
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The Cambo Wide DS is an excellent camera for architecture of any kind. It is the perfect combination with a Phase One digital back. I have used this system from film thru teh current digital version. If you are interested, contact me directly, as I may be selling my system soon. Regards, Dana Hoff
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Thats kind of funny responce, "It is the perfect combination with a Phase One digital back" "as I may be selling my system soon" why? I also use the cambo wide ds with an Aptus 75 and really like the system.
The Cambo Wide DS is an excellent camera for architecture of any kind. It is the perfect combination with a Phase One digital back. I have used this system from film thru teh current digital version. If you are interested, contact me directly, as I may be selling my system soon. Regards, Dana Hoff
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177878\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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The canon 5d is strictly spoken a camera for the amateur market. You only pay half or less the price of the pro bodies, so there must be a difference. Get a DSIII or a hasselblad and everything will be OK ;-)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177768\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, the 1Ds3, hmmm, with a tilted viewfinder... Now that's a perfect camera for architecture !
(Sorry, couln't resist. )
Cheers,
J
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..stephan, how do you not get this problem?
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177762\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
hi marc,
I never found it to be a problem. getting 1 or 2 % more on each side of the frame doesn´t bother me. never even noticed it. its the alignment of verticals/horizontals that is crucial to me. i only use the 5d with the sigma 12-24. the zoom and the grid makes framing and alignment of verticals and horizontal in the room to the viewfinder-grid very easy and exact. then I zoom out again to the desired frame.
in the raw-software I never have to re-level or re-align with the 5d (compared to the ZD, which I have a far more difficult time getting any alignment right).
stefan
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I can't recall if I ever had a camera with 100% viewfinder. From Nikon F4 to 5D thru Pentax67, Mam645 none were/are 100%.
Except may be with the viewfinder out on F4 and Pentax67.
But I am used enough to my camera to exactly know what will be in the frame. Doesn't bother me one bit.
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I can't recall if I ever had a camera with 100% viewfinder. From Nikon F4 to 5D thru Pentax67, Mam645 none were/are 100%.
Except may be with the viewfinder out on F4 and Pentax67.
But I am used enough to my camera to exactly know what will be in the frame. Doesn't bother me one bit.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177965\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
for a lot of work it does not bother me either but its on the lower budget quicker jobs of residential interiors for brochures etc where the edge of the frame is often a small gap between sofa and chairs, tables, walls, etc that the 100% view would simply be nicer...not essential as yes you get to know what is around the frame or recompose slightly after a quick lcd check, just nicer.
Stephan I agree completely though with the grid screen zoom for lining up verticals etc...a real aid.
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Stephan I agree completely though with the grid screen zoom for lining up verticals etc...a real aid.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178001\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It's the way to go...
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If you are on a limited budget whats the point of investing in half an MF system
Buy a 1DS3 and every TS lens they make
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=169906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Agreed.
I mainly use a P45+ on a Linhof M679cs for external shots, but increasingly I just use a Canon (5D or 1Ds MkIII) with the three T&S lenses plus 14mm and 35mm lenses for interiors. Key reasons are,
1. Access to a really wide lens. I can use the sliding carriage on the Linhof to quickly stitch two frames and give an ultra wide effect, but who wants to deal with a 110Mb + image.
2. Much more compact for use in cramped interiors.
3. Critically important, you don't need so much room behind the camera, especially with an angle finder.
4. The new software that Canon ships with the 1Ds MkIII allows quick and accurate correction of distortion with the 14mm and 35mm L lenses.
5. Reasonable file sizes for HDR shots.
6. Easier to achieve larger depth of field with smaller apertures than with a MFDB.
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S.
I have made my living shooting interiors and architecture for 30+ years. It would be god to hear what you expect your clientel to be. For instance the quality that is necessary for magazine work may be insufficient for a large advertising campaigns for a manufacturer. These days I primarily shoot for magazines and national architecture firms., and over the years I have accumulated a magazine clientel that is very lucrative. I shoot both with a 4x5 view camera (with film scanned in house) and a Canon 5d with all TS lenses (plus a 35 Olympus PC). This seems to cover all bases well for the moment. I will upgrade the 5D sometime this year. Though we do far less lighting with digital, you will need to think about lighting too, both strobe and continuous, which is still very necessary for quality work.
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I am glad that you found my courteous response "funny'. Professionally speaking, the Cambo Wide DS is a superb camera and perfect for shooting architecture. I have seen little else that compares to this lens/camera set up. Some six years ago, I had a film version of the Cambo Wide. Last year, I purchased the Cambo Wide DS digital version. Along with that, I got a Phase One P25 digital back which was upgraded last Summer to a P25+ back.
Over the past year, my client base and career direction has changed somewhat. More and more, I have been shooting subjects that are better suited for gear other than a 4x5 system. Hence, I may be selling my Cambo Wide DS and P25+ back. I offered to discuss such a venture offline with any interested parties.
I trust that the above is a more worthy response, to your personal liking, and will be addressed with less hositlity.
Regards,
Dana Hoff
The Cambo Wide DS is an excellent camera for architecture of any kind. It is the perfect combination with a Phase One digital back. I have used this system from film thru teh current digital version. If you are interested, contact me directly, as I may be selling my system soon. Regards, Dana Hoff
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177878\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]