Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Other Raw Converters => Apple Aperture Q&A => Topic started by: Bruce MacNeil on January 17, 2008, 11:11:26 am
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It has been so long since:
1) Aperture 1.5 was released, and,
2) I have been waiting for the Canon 1Ds-III support that:
I assume there is some health crisis among the Apple employees tasked with tweaking the program known as Aperture. Maybe they are all watching movies on their iPods????
B
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What is happening?
Everybody is moving to Lightroom...
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What is happening?
Everybody is moving to Lightroom...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167809\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I didn't initially like Lightroom but it's certainly looking more attractive by the day.
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PMA is just around the corner & Apple has a history of tying announcements to specific trade shows. (at least on the video side of things :-) I am really hoping for an update...
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PMA is just around the corner & Apple has a history of tying announcements to specific trade shows. (at least on the video side of things :-) I am really hoping for an update...
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It will be shocking if anyone announces anything at PMA, that show is tanking.
And you'd think they would have done this at MacWorld this week.
Yup, I think their sales are pretty low.
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It will be shocking if anyone announces anything at PMA, that show is tanking.
And you'd think they would have done this at MacWorld this week.
Yup, I think their sales are pretty low.
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I think Apple needs to release a major upgrade to Aperture or they can call it quits to the pro. Lightroom may not be as elegant but it works and professionals need tools not soft fuzzy good feeling useless things.
Most people also need programs that serve their needs.
I think Apple is making a huge mistake in their handling of Aperture.
I really like it but have been running both LR and Aperture just incase and it looks as if my cya could prove worth the extra time I've spent.
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Like Alexpix and others I have now been forced into double-handing but I am not sure for how long
-even tho' I much prefer Aperture I prefer the simplicity of a single system even more.
I guess I'll give it a little longer but the sheer inability to deliver what they promised ie a system
to meet the needs of pro's and serious amateurs makes one nervous about the long term even if
we were to get an incremental improvement in the near future.
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According to what's been published in the public domain the development team has been overhauled twice. Additionally 'Core' developers were shifted in to consumer products to get them launched e.g. iPhone. Then Leopard was the priority. Camera RAW support and Aperture development doesn't appear top of the pile.
Draw your own conclusions, but IMO Apple lost a lot of trust when they launched 1.0, gained some of it back with a swift resolution to some of the main issues, in failing to do the basics i.e. keep up to date with camera launches it's rapidly loosing it again.
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I'm another one who has started doing a CYA/CMA by running LR in addition to Aperture.
While LR has some real quirks when used to AP. There are other things that it does much more elegantly than AP..the Flash based web galleries for one, IMO. My clients much prefer proofing from LR galleries, even with them being Flash and not being able to "right-click" to save as.
Not to move the thread too much. But, last week, post CES, there was some rumor-mongering again that Apple might be positioning itself to buy Adobe. Might explain why we are perceiving Apple as dragging their feet in Aperture development. It would make more sense for them to use dev resources on consumer devices and do just enough to keep Aperture alive with the faintest of heartbeats until an Adobe crew would be able to really overhaul and/or merge.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pu...111_003899.html (http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pulpit_20080111_003899.html)
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I'm another one who has started doing a CYA/CMA by running LR in addition to Aperture.
While LR has some real quirks when used to AP. There are other things that it does much more elegantly than AP..the Flash based web galleries for one, IMO. My clients much prefer proofing from LR galleries, even with them being Flash and not being able to "right-click" to save as.
Not to move the thread too much. But, last week, post CES, there was some rumor-mongering again that Apple might be positioning itself to buy Adobe. Might explain why we are perceiving Apple as dragging their feet in Aperture development. It would make more sense for them to use dev resources on consumer devices and do just enough to keep Aperture alive with the faintest of heartbeats until an Adobe crew would be able to really overhaul and/or merge.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pu...111_003899.html (http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pulpit_20080111_003899.html)
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Rumor mongering by Cringely? He's no better than 50/50 on options that have only 2 outcomes
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Over on AppleInsider.com is updated news about the OSX 10.5.2 build. Although the details are limited is did specifically mention that some of he documented fixes in this build "target image noise in RAW files".
So, there does seem to be Aperture related items in 10.5.2.
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Not to move the thread too much. But, last week, post CES, there was some rumor-mongering again that Apple might be positioning itself to buy Adobe. Might explain why we are perceiving Apple as dragging their feet in Aperture development. It would make more sense for them to use dev resources on consumer devices and do just enough to keep Aperture alive with the faintest of heartbeats until an Adobe crew would be able to really overhaul and/or merge.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168324\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I heard that rumour elsewhere and can hardly think of anything worse and that's speaking as someone just about to buy a MacPro and maybe a Macbook Pro later in year. That's if they bring out a 13" version, that is usuable, rather than crippled, that is!
Apple bought Logic, a respected piece of audio software that had a 50% PC user base and they simply dropped support for the PC version to force people to buy Macs. Didn't go down very well. At all.
Never worked out why people think Apple are are cuddly friendly company, they are a typical huge multinational which can be very aggressive and bullying, worse than MS even. At least Gates spends his fortune helping combat poverty and disease.
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I also seem to recall that for Aperture or any other Apple software to recognise new RAW files it was an OS update and not an Aperture update that is needed. Not sure if that is still so under Leopard.
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I am *NOT* going to be happy if I have to upgrade to 10.5 to process mt D3 RAW files...my 10.4 workstation has been very stable for 2 years!!!! Ugh...
I also seem to recall that for Aperture or any other Apple software to recognise new RAW files it was an OS update and not an Aperture update that is needed. Not sure if that is still so under Leopard.
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Then you're not going to be happy. Aperture is tied to the Mac OS and to my knowledge can not add support for new cameras with an OS upgrade.
Michael
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My advice, and the path I recently took: sell Aperture (you can get a relatively good price on eBay) and buy Lightroom.
I loved Aperture when it was first released but couldn't hold back the temptation to try Lightroom in one of its earliest forms. I came away knowing that I was in the right camp - Aperture was right for me.
Months passed, Lightroom got better and better, Aperture appeared to get slower and clunkier with every image added to the library, until one day I snapped and decided to try Lightroom again.
2 days later Aperture was listed on eBay and Lightroom was purchased. I doubt I'll be going back...
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I am *NOT* going to be happy if I have to upgrade to 10.5 to process mt D3 RAW files...my 10.4 workstation has been very stable for 2 years!!!! Ugh...
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You needn't bee too gloomy. Apple have traditionally released camera updates alongside OS upgrades irrespective of version. On occasions Apple have also made Camera RAW support packages available outside of the normall OS update schedule.
Leopard is only present on 20% of the installed base so it's reasonable to expect Tiger and Panther support for a little while to come.
This doesn't of course excuse the tardy pace or prioritization Apple have placed on supporting the latest RAW formats.
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This is an entirely speculative post based entirely on rumors and no inside knowledge. I have Apple holdings but no Adobe stock either directly or in funds..
In order to fund my interest in photography I spend the hours of daylight: and many nights in corporate finance and investment banking (Pharma/Biotech). Since late 2004 there has been constant speculation Apple and Adobe would merge their business in one way or another.
Right now that speculation has increased. Apple have come under increasing pressure to do something with it's cash pile and Adobe is undergoing a management change many have interpreted as transitionary.
You can infer from that what you want but as I said it's pure speculation. I've spoken to colleagues active in this sector and while there is some activity it's very difficult to draw any conclusions. Companies constantly review their strategic options and it's not always easy to separate strategic fishing exercises from any meaningful activity.
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>You can infer from that what you want but as I said it's pure speculation. I've spoken to colleagues >active in this sector and while there is some activity it's very difficult to draw any conclusions. >Companies constantly review their strategic options and it's not always easy to separate strategic >fishing exercises from any meaningful activity.
Well, that would be one way to eliminate the perennial threat of Adobe halting Mac development...and that would be funny to see MS asking Apple to continue development on Win apps instead of the other way around! lol...
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This may interest you: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_p...id=7-9206-9248/ (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-9206-9248/)
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This may interest you: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_p...id=7-9206-9248/ (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-9206-9248/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=170704\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Summary?
Looks like it was removed...
Page Not Found
Saturday, December 30, 1899 | by
Sorry, the page you are trying to reach is no longer available.
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RAW format update coming for Mac OS, says Apple product manager
Tuesday, January 29, 2008 | by Rob Galbraith
In a recent posting in Apple's Aperture support forums, Joe Schorr, Sr. Product Line Manager for Photo Applications at Apple, hints that updated RAW format support is coming soon to the Mac OS.
Following Apple company policy, he doesn't say when, or what new camera RAW files will be supported, though it's a fair guess that the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III, Nikon D300 and D3 will be among those added and that Aperture, iPhoto and other programs that draw on this OS-level code to display and convert RAW format photos will be the beneficiaries of this update, when it comes.
The content of Schorr's January 23, 2008 post is below. The forum thread containing the post is here.
As I'm sure many of you know, it's not Apple's policy to provide a public "ETA" on future releases, so I can't post anything like a timetable for when support for the newest RAW camera formats will become available.
But I can tell you this. We at Apple are ACUTELY aware of the pressing need to get support for the newest round of camera into your hands as soon as possible. This is a top priority. We have members of our own team using these cameras, so you can imagine how interested we are in seeing this support integrated into the Mac OS and our photo applications!
We fully intent to give our customers what they need in this regard.
Thanks!
Joe Schorr
Sr. Product Line Manager, Photo Applications
Apple
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_p...cid=7-9206-9248 (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-9206-9248)
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http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_p...cid=7-9206-9248 (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-9206-9248)
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Oh okay, thanks. I'm involved in that thread on the referenced Apple Support Forums.
I was hoping for some Aperture specific news.
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Looks like Joe Shore has stated that a new version or update is coming very soon.
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Actually (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1370460&tstart=0) he said "soon", not "very".
We're constantly working to make Aperture an even better tool for users, and will soon release an upgrade that includes RAW format support for new cameras and other exciting new features. Please stay tuned.
Joe Schorr
Sr. Product Manager, Photo Applications
Apple
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That link was there this morning (UK time) but it looks like it's been censored.
John
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That link was there this morning (UK time) but it looks like it's been censored.
John
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I was active in that one too.
It has been removed. Basically, it was Joe Schorr proactively trying to put out a fire / calm a core creative community by saying that there would be an update "soon", with no date. It was his choice to do this, as he started the thread.
About 4 1/2 pages of posts then ensued ranging from disapproval of Apple's communication to the pro community (majority of posts) to the some saying "they can't wait", with upbeat candor. With the former the overwhelming sticking points were:
1. Slow update of RAW support for cameras
2. No predictable timeline, its unacceptability, and how it negatively effects a pro workflow
There was quite a bit of "Thanks, but your post is too little, too late..~we already moved to Lightroom"
Personally, I did not see any pot shots...hopefully it will be a wake up call for Apple on how much they irritated a core creative group. I don't think they were expecting the public lashing that that thread gave them.
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And it's back again now - I suspect one or two more hotheaded posts have been removed. Not the usual sort of issue, not the usual sort of censorship.
John
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And it's back again now - I suspect one or two more hotheaded posts have been removed. Not the usual sort of issue, not the usual sort of censorship.
John
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I wonder what sort of effect this has - is it just a small minority of disgruntled users, or does it represent a threat? I have no idea of how many copies Aperture sells, or how many users will walk over to LR over this issue. For Joe Schorr to make 2 statements suggests that it is taken moderately seriously, but those statements are pretty empty, when you look at them.
Personally, I am not a pro, or a very exacting user, but it annoys me to have to wait to integrate my new toy (D300) into my life, and I am also concerned that the effort I put into Aperture cataloguing etc will be wasted if it gets stranded down the road.
I set a personal time limit of Macworld to see an update, and then extended it to PMA. I suspect I will extend it a bit more - but not long. Does Apple care? We'll see.
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I suspect Apple will have to make a really big push with Aperture or it will loose the ground it made. With a relatively small market-share and so many competing interests Apple could loose interest despite the activities of it's employees closer to the coal face.
Market share comments:
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/10/apert..._lightroom.html (http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/10/aperture_vs_lightroom.html)
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No, it will lose (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22600) that interest despite the activities of its employees... Bingo!
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I suspect Apple will have to make a really big push with Aperture or it will loose the ground it made. With a relatively small market-share and so many competing interests Apple could loose interest despite the activities of it's employees closer to the coal face.
Market share comments:
http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/10/apert..._lightroom.html (http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2007/10/aperture_vs_lightroom.html)
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Or buy Adobe?
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Thanks John:) I normally pride myself on fairly decent spelling and grammar. In retrospect the whole post could have been better phrased.
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Thanks John:) I normally pride myself on fairly decent spelling and grammar. In retrospect the whole post could have been better phrased.
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I'm always amused by all the variations of spelling Aperture - we've got "Aperature" in one thread on this forum, and I think there's an Apperture somewhere. They should have simply called it "f"....
But going back to the gist of your post, obviously you're right and Apple are going to have to make a big effort, if there's still enough profit in it.
John
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OS-X 10.5.2 has just been posted and according to the notes the RAW format from a number of additional cameras are now supported including the Canon G9 and 1Ds MkIII, Nikon D3 and D300, Sony A700, Hasselblad CF-22 and CF-39, and Leaf 75s.
In my haste to post this I assumed that with this update the RAW files would be read by Aperture. But they are not - yet. Until an update (to Aperture, I assume) is available they can be viewed with the Finder, but are an "unsupported image format" to Aperture. How frustrating...
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Aperture 2.0 for $199 or $99 upgrade.
A far cry from the $500 dollars they originally wanted for it.
Aperture 2 (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=8CB8C917&fnode=home&nplm=MB284Z/A)
Though if you try and download the trial you get 1.56 instead. Nice one Apple.
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Aperture 2.0 for $199 or $99 upgrade.
A far cry from the $500 dollars they originally wanted for it.
Aperture 2 (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=8CB8C917&fnode=home&nplm=MB284Z/A)
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Desperation it seems. Is there a demo cause there's no way I'd pay $99 to upgrade my copy without one. And the upgrade fee seems pretty high compared to the new price.
I suspect if this version doesn't sell well, Steve will pull the plug on this pup. Let the team fix ColorSync or something really useful.
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I edited post before seeing your reply - there is a demo, but the link takes you to the 1.56 trial. Duh!
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I edited post before seeing your reply - there is a demo, but the link takes you to the 1.56 trial. Duh!
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I just read this on MacWorld site:
New tools include Recovery, used for pulling back "blown" highlights, Vibrancy, for boosting saturation selectively without messing up skin tones, Definition, which lets you add clarity to images using local contrast
Could they be talking about Lightroom 1.3?
Seriously, this is a sign....
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Apple really blew it with the Aperture 2.0 upgrade. They upgraded OSX 10.5.2 to support RAW for the latest line of digital cameras. This support was also ported over to iPhoto but not Aperture 1.5.6, forcing current owners to upgrade for this same RAW support.
Current owners of the Academic version are not eligible for an upgrade and must purchase the full version. This is something Adobe got right years ago allowing owners of Educational versions to upgrade.
I hope the rumors of an Adobe takeover by Apple is not true!
Jerry
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Apple really blew it with the Aperture 2.0 upgrade. They upgraded OSX 10.5.2 to support RAW for the latest line of digital cameras. This support was also ported over to iPhoto but not Aperture 1.5.6, forcing current owners to upgrade for this same RAW support.
Current owners of the Academic version are not eligible for an upgrade and must purchase the full version. This is something Adobe got right years ago allowing owners of Educational versions to upgrade.
I hope the rumors of an Adobe takeover by Apple is not true!
Jerry
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You might well be right, but I'd say it's a tad premature to assume the worst given that 10.5.2 was only just released yesterday and Aperture hasn't seen an update in an awfully long time.
It's quite possible they'll release 1.5.7 in a day or two.
Then again, with Apple.. ya never quite know until they do
I will say that I was stunned to see they were even offering upgrade pricing at all though.. that's almost completely uncharacteristic (although I'd say not offering it would almost certainly kill the app). I agree that they should extend it to cover all users, but that may come in time as well..
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I edited post before seeing your reply - there is a demo, but the link takes you to the 1.56 trial. Duh!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=174203\")
I'm not sure what link you followed, jjj, but I've just downloaded [a href=\"http://www.apple.com/aperture/trial/]a trial version of Aperture 2.0 from this link.[/url]
Maybe they just hadn't updated the links yet.
Some important details to keep in mind:
Licensed Aperture Owners
1. If you already have a licensed copy of Aperture in your Applications folder, you need to move or rename it before installing the Aperture 2 trial.
2. To open an existing Aperture 1.x library with Aperture 1.5 after you've run the Aperture 2 trial, drag the library onto the Aperture 1.5 application. If you open an existing library with the Aperture 2 trial, you’ll be prompted to permanently “upgrade” the library and you will subsequently require Aperture 2. Don't upgrade your existing library unless you plan to continue using Aperture 2.
3. To use a previous version of Aperture after installing the trial, you may need to reauthorize it with your original Aperture 1.x serial number.
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Desperation it seems. Is there a demo cause there's no way I'd pay $99 to upgrade my copy without one. And the upgrade fee seems pretty high compared to the new price.
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There is a demo but it's broken, as you can't import your existing library, only images.
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I'm not sure what link you followed, jjj, but I've just downloaded a trial version of Aperture 2.0 from this link. (http://www.apple.com/aperture/trial/)
Maybe they just hadn't updated the links yet.
Some important details to keep in mind:
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm having the same problem. All links I try point to trial for 1.5. And since I've tried 1.5, even it won't install
bob
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Looks like a 1.7 to me, a lot of catch up with Lightroom and streamlining rather than anything that wows. But I'll pick out some interesting details:
1) Baseline support for DNG regardless of whether the OS supports the originating camera. The devil will be in the detail but this has two obvious effects - Aperture instantly supports more cameras, and it's another feather in DNG's "archival" cap.
2) Smart filters now allow you to include adjustments - so you can create a filter that looks for all the black and white images, for example, or those without sharpening. This will really improve workflow management.
3) Embeds IPTC in raw files upon export, but no mention of reading IPTC-Core or sidecars, so it's still easy to leave Aperture but not so easy to move your XMP metadata into it. Odd decision?
4) Preference to use embedded previews. This will speed up browsing and comparison.
5) Background processing upon export - again this will speed up end to end workflow.
John
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Apple really blew it with the Aperture 2.0 upgrade. They upgraded OSX 10.5.2 to support RAW for the latest line of digital cameras. This support was also ported over to iPhoto but not Aperture 1.5.6, forcing current owners to upgrade for this same RAW support.
Current owners of the Academic version are not eligible for an upgrade and must purchase the full version. This is something Adobe got right years ago allowing owners of Educational versions to upgrade.
I hope the rumors of an Adobe takeover by Apple is not true!
Jerry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174224\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Wow, that's truly reprehensible if they don't plan to offer current Aperture users a free update to access the new RAW importers. Such bad business.
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I'm not sure what link you followed, jjj, but I've just downloaded a trial version of Aperture 2.0 from this link. (http://www.apple.com/aperture/trial/)
Maybe they just hadn't updated the links yet.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=174233\")
The links were broken earlier on today, obviously someone made a boo boo.
Well I've just spent some time playing with Aperture and I'm completely underwhelmed. LR with all it's irritating bugs and silly flaws is soooo much better a product. Also for some reason, Aperture adopts a different colour scheme to the rest of the OS ??!! Very confusing.
Also things like having to be a .Mac member to produce a web gallery! Is this iPhoto+ or a serious professional application.
Though something Adobe could really do with adopting is the excellent keyboard customisation that Aperture uses, for all Adobe's software. That's a nice way of showing the keys taken and how they are used. And the recognition of dual monitors is definitely where Aperture makes LR look a bit naff, esp. on a Mac where LR gets very confused by two monitors and cannot even do full screen across entire desktop.
Oh and it's not even faster than LR 1.3, seems a lot slower on imprt + rendering. I just tested both on the same couple of folders. LR flew through the import and preview building compared to Aperture.
Here's a link to the Aperture tutorials, this one being the keyboard customisation
[a href=\"http://www.apple.com/aperture/tutorials/#intro-keyboard]Aperture lessons[/url]