Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: HarperPhotos on December 28, 2007, 05:02:54 pm
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Hello,
I've just purchased the new Mamiya 645 AF 28mm f4.5D lens and I think I have bought a lemon.
As I am on holiday I have taken these images by my pool.
I think it is very obverses the in the bottom left and right corners it looks pretty soft.
I personally think that when you spend close to 7 grand in NZ dollars a lens like this should be sharp?
Mamiya claim in the adverting that this lens is superior edge to edge?
So here are the states on the images:
Mamiya 645AFDII and Leaf Aptus75 back.
I focused on the fountain in the kiddies pool with the camera on a tripod and I shot mirror up with a electron cable.
Images processed in Adobe bridge with no shaping.
I look forward to reading every one's opinions.
Simon
Harper Photographics Limited
Email : simon@harperphoto.co.nz
Website: http://www.harperphoto.com (http://www.harperphoto.com)
Phone : +64 9 444 1148
Fax : +64 9 444 1148
Mobile : +64 29 444 1148
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it looks bad ( the edges ) , although not knowing the 28mm mamiya.
for sure inferior than the 35mm contax and not comparable to the 28HR, both i use.
i would not be surprised if you have a lemon. sample variation is so high this days from nearly all manufactors ....
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it looks bad, although not knowing the 28mm mamiya.
for sure inferior than the 35mm contax and not comparable to the 28HR, both i use.
i would not be surprised if you have a lemon. sample variation is so high this days from nearly all manufactors ....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163674\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hello,
My Mamiya AF 35mm lens is shaper than this 28mm.
Simon
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Hello,
I've just purchased the new Mamiya 645 AF 28mm f4.5D lens and I think I have bought a lemon.
As I am on holiday I have taken these images by my pool.
I think it is very obverses the in the bottom left and right corners it looks pretty soft.
I personally think that when you spend close to 7 grand in NZ dollars a lens like this should be sharp?
Mamiya claim in the adverting that this lens is superior edge to edge?
So here are the states on the images:
Mamiya 645AFDII and Leaf Aptus75 back.
I focused on the fountain in the kiddies pool with the camera on a tripod and I shot mirror up with a electron cable.
Images processed in Adobe bridge with no shaping.
I look forward to reading every one's opinions.
Simon
Harper Photographics Limited
Email : simon@harperphoto.co.nz
Website: http://www.harperphoto.com (http://www.harperphoto.com)
Phone : +64 9 444 1148
Fax : +64 9 444 1148
Mobile : +64 29 444 1148
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163664\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I find it very hard to judge sharpness from your files on my screen - but I will suggest that stops smaller than f11 will suffer from diffraction softening. I'd ignore the f32 file for sure, and the f16 will be questionable.
My own 28 mm is best at f11 where it is very sharp. In fact, if I need to use my 35 mm, I find it's almost better to use the 28 mm and crop the image!
May I suggest you try f5.6, 8 and 11. It might be useful to compare with your next-widest lens and compare the areas they both cover.
Bill
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I find it very hard to judge sharpness from your files on my screen - but I will suggest that stops smaller than f11 will suffer from diffraction softening. I'd ignore the f32 file for sure, and the f16 will be questionable.
My own 28 mm is best at f11 where it is very sharp. In fact, if I need to use my 35 mm, I find it's almost better to use the 28 mm and crop the image!
May I suggest you try f5.6, 8 and 11. It might be useful to compare with your next-widest lens and compare the areas they both cover.
Bill
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=163679\")
Hi Bill,
I hear what you are saying but I still think a Lens of this calibre is very much lacking in bottom corner resolution in any f stop.
I did take some test shots at the same time with my Mamiya 35mm AF lens and I think you have to agree it is definitely sharper in the corners.
Regards
Simon
Website: [a href=\"http://www.harperphoto.com]http://www.harperphoto.com[/url]
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Hello,
I've just purchased the new Mamiya 645 AF 28mm f4.5D lens and I think I have bought a lemon.
As I am on holiday I have taken these images by my pool.
I think it is very obverses the in the bottom left and right corners it looks pretty soft.
I personally think that when you spend close to 7 grand in NZ dollars a lens like this should be sharp?
Mamiya claim in the adverting that this lens is superior edge to edge?
So here are the states on the images:
Mamiya 645AFDII and Leaf Aptus75 back.
I focused on the fountain in the kiddies pool with the camera on a tripod and I shot mirror up with a electron cable.
Images processed in Adobe bridge with no shaping.
I look forward to reading every one's opinions.
Simon
Harper Photographics Limited
Email : simon@harperphoto.co.nz
Website: http://www.harperphoto.com (http://www.harperphoto.com)
Phone : +64 9 444 1148
Fax : +64 9 444 1148
Mobile : +64 29 444 1148
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163664\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have a contax 35mm that is significantly sharper in the corners.
I think you have good reason to return your 28mm and
ask for another sample. Even if yours is within
Mamiya's QA tolerances, i'd swap it until i had one
that i was happy with. As you say, for that amount
of money, you should get stellar performance.
Good luck,
Tony
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Hi Bill,
I hear what you are saying but I still think a Lens of this calibre is very much lacking in bottom corner resolution in any f stop.
I did take some test shots at the same time with my Mamiya 35mm AF lens and I think you have to agree it is definitely sharper in the corners.
Regards
Simon
Website: http://www.harperphoto.com (http://www.harperphoto.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163720\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Simon
Something seems to be wacky...............this 35mm lens shot @f11 and focused on the fountain of the kiddie pool, seems to be front focusing. At that fstop the chairs on the right should definately be sharp. Did you manual focus or did the autofocus have to hunt and peck for the little fountain?
The previous 28mm shots seem to exhibit the same...........the wide open shot looks out of focus on the fountain (it may in fact be a lemon) It is hard to tell from these jpegs if your camera is focusing properly.......perhaps adding to this issue may also be that you are not using any sharpening. Do you typically send out images processed in ACR with no sharpening?
Test your 35 lens wide open to confirm that what is in focus in the viewfinder is in fact what the sensor sees.
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the only sample I have myself of the 35mm was made on film and scanned not even high rez. but if that can help...
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deleted
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the only sample I have myself of the 35mm was made on film and scanned not even high rez. but if that can help...
BTW no crop so the "all" lens was use.
look at the bottom you'll see the fabric and again not a good scan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163767\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Good Morning,
Thanks for the feedback.
I've taken some more test images this morning of the fountain in my drive way.
Again the camera was on a tripod and I shot with the mirror up with a electron cable. I focused both lens using the AF and switched them to manual so they were locked.
I processed them in Adobe bridge and there is no shaping. I wanted to keep them as pure as possible.
I think it pretty apparent that the bottom left and right corners a soft.
I also use my 35mm as a compassion and it is clearly shaper in the corners
Can any one who also owns a Mamiya AF 28mm f4.5D lens please have a look at these test shots and can tell me if there lens has the softness in the bottom corners.
So when I go back to Mamiya Japan I have some backup from other photographers who have this lens
look forward to your thoughts
Regards
Simon
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Good Morning,
Thanks for the feedback.
I've taken some more test images this morning of the fountain in my drive way.
Again the camera was on a tripod and I shot with the mirror up with a electron cable. I focused both lens using the AF and switched them to manual so they were locked.
I processed them in Adobe bridge and there is no shaping. I wanted to keep them as pure as possible.
I think it pretty apparent that the bottom left and right corners a soft.
I also use my 35mm as a compassion and it is clearly shaper in the corners
Can any one who also owns a Mamiya AF 28mm f4.5D lens please have a look at these test shots and can tell me if there lens has the softness in the bottom corners.
So when I go back to Mamiya Japan I have some backup from other photographers who have this lens
look forward to your thoughts
Regards
Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163877\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
HI
You should email Peter Eastway in Sydney as he has this lens with the P45+ & loves it for his landscapes. He publishes Better Photography & does beautiful landscapes.
Thanks Denis
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HI
You should email Peter Eastway in Sydney as he has this lens with the P45+ & loves it for his landscapes. He publishes Better Photography & does beautiful landscapes.
Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Denis,
Thanks very much, I just had a look at his website and you are right amazing shots. Unfortunately he doesn't have a email address.
Simon
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eastway@betterphotography.com
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Hi Denis,
Thanks very much, I just had a look at his website and you are right amazing shots. Unfortunately he doesn't have a email address.
Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163909\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
hi fellow kiwi,
yeah, the sharpness is a bit dodgey on the bottom right hand side. when i first looked, i thought maybe you dont have enough dof, but the bottom middle is sharp, then gradually turns to mush on the bottom right.
did you buy it from panavision? you should send it back.
paul
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Hi Denis,
Thanks very much, I just had a look at his website and you are right amazing shots. Unfortunately he doesn't have a email address.
Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163909\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sure he does:
eastway@betterphotography.com
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Nick I beat you to it!
Cheers,
Willem.
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hi fellow kiwi,
yeah, the sharpness is a bit dodgey on the bottom right hand side. when i first looked, i thought maybe you dont have enough dof, but the bottom middle is sharp, then gradually turns to mush on the bottom right.
did you buy it from panavision? you should send it back.
paul
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163917\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Paul,
No I didn't.
But I have a direct contact at Mamiya Japan so first thing in the new year I will be in contact with them.
Simon
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Nick I beat you to it!
Cheers,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163921\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for Peters email. Have send him a email so hopefully he can help.
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Simon
I’ve got a 28mm that I believe is tack sharp. I’ve been upgrading my system for the past couple days and haven’t had a chance to do much of anything else. Give me about two more days, and if you still would like a sample let me know. I do have one up on an earlier post from the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. Let me know if I can help.
don
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Simon
I’ve got a 28mm that I believe is tack sharp. I’ve been upgrading my system for the past couple days and haven’t had a chance to do much of anything else. Give me about two more days, and if you still would like a sample let me know. I do have one up on an earlier post from the South Rim of the Grand Canyon. Let me know if I can help.
don
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163941\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Don,
That would be great if you could send some sample images with your 28mm.
From the use you have all ready had does your lens have the softness in the bottom corners as I am getting?
Cheers
Simon
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Simon, none of the images you've posted look properly focussed. I don't think you have a corner sharpness issue - I think there's something wrong with the focussing of your AFD II or the lens.
Ignoring the corners for now, you should be getting detail in the center than jumps off the page. I routinely get much sharper shots, even with my 55-110, which is notoriously soft.
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Can any one who also owns a Mamiya AF 28mm f4.5D lens please have a look at these test shots and can tell me if there lens has the softness in the bottom corners.
So when I go back to Mamiya Japan I have some backup from other photographers who have this lens
look forward to your thoughts
Regards
Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163877\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Here is shot I took last August when I was testing my 28 mm. 1/180 sec @ f11, iso 50. I was focussed at infinity and was most interested in DOF - hence the subject.
The "0" quality jpg is awful but serves to show pretty good sharpness except at the very edges - tho' in a 20 by 24 print the whole thing is crisp and sharp. Don't look at the leaves - it was very windy!
Processed at LR defaults only.
Bill[attachment=4484:attachment]
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Here is shot I took last August when I was testing my 28 mm. 1/180 sec @ f11, iso 50. I was focussed at infinity and was most interested in DOF - hence the subject.
The "0" quality jpg is awful but serves to show pretty good sharpness except at the very edges - tho' in a 20 by 24 print the whole thing is crisp and sharp. Don't look at the leaves - it was very windy!
Processed at LR defaults only.
Bill[attachment=4484:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163958\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Bill,
Thanks for putting up your image very nice.
Had a look at your image in Photoshop and there is some softness in the bottom left by the right side is perfect.
So I am coming to the conclusion that my lens is a dud.
I will be making a call to Mamiya Japan on Thursday so If you and any other photographers can prove my case this would be great.
Cheers
Simon
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Here is shot I took last August when I was testing my 28 mm. 1/180 sec @ f11, iso 50. I was focussed at infinity and was most interested in DOF - hence the subject.
The "0" quality jpg is awful but serves to show pretty good sharpness except at the very edges - tho' in a 20 by 24 print the whole thing is crisp and sharp. Don't look at the leaves - it was very windy!
Processed at LR defaults only.
Bill[attachment=4484:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163958\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Bill. I assume all of the color artefacts are because of the low quality JPEG?
I have to say that if this is representative of the 28, then I'm disappointed. I get sharper images with my 35/3.5. You mentioned it was windy, so maybe there was some tripod shake. In particular, I was looking at the small huts further out in the scene, since you mentioned you were focussed at infinity.
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Hi Bill. I assume all of the color artefacts are because of the low quality JPEG?
I have to say that if this is representative of the 28, then I'm disappointed. I get sharper images with my 35/3.5. You mentioned it was windy, so maybe there was some tripod shake. In particular, I was looking at the small huts further out in the scene, since you mentioned you were focussed at infinity.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The jpg sucks! The only way I could get the file small enough to post was at a quality of "0". Even then it was 1.8 megs. There are artifacts everywhere. Keep in mind too that there was virtually no sharpening applied, which is hardly real world!
Next week, hopefully, my website will be up and running and I'll post a real file. Meantime, take it from me that the 28 mm is much crisper than the 35 mm - or at least, MY 35 mm! (Which is a pretty good lens imho despite comments I see about softness.)
Anyway, the pictures I'm getting are really nice and sharp and you'll have to pry the 28 mm from my cold dead hands!
Bill
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The jpg sucks! The only way I could get the file small enough to post was at a quality of "0". Even then it was 1.8 megs. There are artifacts everywhere. Keep in mind too that there was virtually no sharpening applied, which is hardly real world!
Next week, hopefully, my website will be up and running and I'll post a real file. Meantime, take it from me that the 28 mm is much crisper than the 35 mm - or at least, MY 35 mm! (Which is a pretty good lens imho despite comments I see about softness.)
Anyway, the pictures I'm getting are really nice and sharp and you'll have to pry the 28 mm from my cold dead hands!
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163972\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Bill,
Its great you are so happy with your 28mm. Personnel when you come close to spending 7 grand NZ as I have I think my one is a pig.
Simon
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Simon
Had a chance to do a couple really quick shots around the house this morning. None of these images will win any awards - their are here as examples of the lens quality only. I do have a few quality landscape images using this lens which by the way I just absolutely LOVE!
Three test images: Image 1 shot at f/8.0 image 2 shot at f/32 and image 3 was shot at f/4.5
Hope these help. Go to my website and South Rim Grand Canyon to see landscape images with the 28 or to Limited Editions.
BTW - sorry no pool shots as we don't have one!
Test 1
[attachment=4499:attachment]
Test 2
[attachment=4500:attachment]
Test 3
[attachment=4501:attachment]
HAPPY NEW YEARS!
don
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I thought that there were some better samples posted somewhere on this board a few months ago.
Looking at these, I'm amazed at how much better my schneider digitar 24 is... I know rainer will say how much better the 28HR is (needs to be at that price).
As the mamiya is a similar cost to my 24 digitar, I'd hope it could match the quality. This looks rather disappointing
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Simon
Had a chance to do a couple really quick shots around the house this morning. None of these images will win any awards - their are here as examples of the lens quality only. I do have a few quality landscape images using this lens which by the way I just absolutely LOVE!
Three test images: Image 1 shot at f/8.0 image 2 shot at f/32 and image 3 was shot at f/4.5
Hope these help. Go to my website and South Rim Grand Canyon to see landscape images with the 28 or to Limited Editions.
BTW - sorry no pool shots as we don't have one!
Test 1
[attachment=4499:attachment]
Test 2
[attachment=4500:attachment]
Test 3
[attachment=4501:attachment]
HAPPY NEW YEARS!
don
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164242\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Happy New Year Don,
Just had a look at your images thru hazy eyes this New Year morning.
I can definitely see that your 28mm is sharper which will make my case better when I contact Mamiya Japan.
Would it be OK if I can use these images to show them the difference to mine.
Regards
Simon
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Happy New Year Don,
Just had a look at your images thru hazy eyes this New Year morning.
I can definitely see that your 28mm is sharper which will make my case better when I contact Mamiya Japan.
Would it be OK if I can use these images to show them the difference to mine.
Regards
Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164283\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Simon - No problem at all. Let me know if you need anything else .... asprin?
Happy New Years!
don
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Hello,
Well this morning I spoke to my contact at Mamiya Japan.
As it was her first day back from holidays she said she need about a hour to read all my twelve emails.
An hour latter she emailed me to tell me to post my Mamiya 28mm lens back to her for a replacement.
I am very pleased with the fast responds I got from Mamiya Japan and hopefully the replacement will do the trick.
Just like to thank the photographers who sent sample images taken with there Mamiya 28mm lens
Simon
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I think that this is a bit of an unrealistic expectation as the digitar lens does not have to deal with the back focus issues of the SLR mounted lens, thats probably where the money went.
I thought that there were some better samples posted somewhere on this board a few months ago.
Looking at these, I'm amazed at how much better my schneider digitar 24 is... I know rainer will say how much better the 28HR is (needs to be at that price).
As the mamiya is a similar cost to my 24 digitar, I'd hope it could match the quality. This looks rather disappointing
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164257\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi David,
I agree with your comment about the digitar lenses.
But when you compare my test images to the one's supplied by other photographers Mamiya 28mm lenses it is clear that there images are sharper than the one I have.
And so has Mamiya Japan that's why they have asked me to return it for replacement.
I don't expect it to compare to a digitar
The days of me humping a Sinar P2 around New Zealand are long gone for me.
Regards
Simon
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Hi Simon,
I think you shouldn't be spending that sort of money on a lens and get a dud. Its good you've pursued it. If they aren't adequately testing these lenses, a few getting returned would hopefully get them to tighten their QC.
BTW, You don't need to hump a P2, I just got one of the Cambo WDS with a 24mm apo digitar from Chris at Capture Integration on a very good special last month (advertised in the LL FS forum). I have squeezed it into a Pelican 1400 case I used to keep my filters in for now. Its nothing compared to the 1600 case I keep the H1 gear in.
cheers
David
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Giddy David,
I purchased the Mamiya 28mm to complement the rest of my Mamiya 645AFDII kit.
Yes in a perfect world, if my lens hadn't been faulty I wouldn't had to put up this forum to get advise.
Manufactures are not always perfect.
A good example is the recall of 86 thousand Holden cars in Australia and New Zealand ( Chevy's for non Anzac's) just this week.
Regards
Simon
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Simon - Glad to hear the good news though sorry you had to go thru it. Hope the next lens will be a keeper. Out of all the lens in my kit I think my 28 is the best ...
don
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Hi Don,
I hope so too.
I did ask them that before they send the new 28mm could one of there lens technicians give it a good going over to make sure its sharp in the corners.
The more I looked at the images you took with your 28mm lens its proof to me how good this lens can be.
Even the image in your living room at f4.5 is superb.
I will keep you posted.
Regards
Simon
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Hello,
My new replacement Mamiya 28mm lens arrived at Mamiya New Zealand's distributor Panavision yesterday.
Thanks to Tim Timlin I was aloud to use there Motion picture camera facilities to test the new lens.
My first reaction was my Mamiya 35mm lens which I used as a comparison was very good.
The new Mamiya 28mm lens is a vast improvement on the lens I returned to Mamiya Japan but the top left corner is a bit soft but acceptable and therefore I am happy with this lens.
Personally a lens that cost $6,500.00 NZ dollars should be perfect and Mamiya need to improve the resolution in the corners.
All the test images were take with Leaf Aptus 75 on a tripod with electronic cable mirror up.
Images processed in Adobe bridge CS3 with No Sharpening
I've also sent this link to Mamiya Japan.
Look forward to your opinions
I would like to thank Mamiya Japan for replacing my faulty 28mm lens so quickly
Cheers
Simon
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Simon
Congrat’s on finally getting a good 28! Too bad you had to wait so long to get one.
We’re sitting in Carmel CA after a 2 day drive from Tucson, going to meet with good friend and fellow LL member Ken Doo to shot the local landscape of Big Sur and surrounding areas – huge difference from the desert areas that we normally hang out at! First thing I noticed is there’s a lot more people here.
Anyway please show us some of that beautiful countryside of NZ haven’t been there in close to 20 years.
don
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Simon
Congrat’s on finally getting a good 28! Too bad you had to wait so long to get one.
We’re sitting in Carmel CA after a 2 day drive from Tucson, going to meet with good friend and fellow LL member Ken Doo to shot the local landscape of Big Sur and surrounding areas – huge difference from the desert areas that we normally hang out at! First thing I noticed is there’s a lot more people here.
Anyway please show us some of that beautiful countryside of NZ haven’t been there in close to 20 years.
don
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171756\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Don,
Great to hear from you. I have never been to the USA but it is a dream of mine to drive from LA up the east coast to Seattle in a convertible Ford Mustang.
Actually I haven't been past the Equator.
The replacement Mamiya 28mm lens is great but one thing I've noticed is the focusing seems to be very critical and I get a sharper image when I manually focus.
I am hoping the new Mamiya/Phase camera body will have a improved auto focusing system.
I have a car shot for Lexus this week to do on location around Auckland and in the central North Island and then back to my car studio to do the interiors so the new 28mm is going to get a good workout.
Well Don as it have been 20 years since you were down under in New Zealand, if you decide to come down please feel free to contact me if you are in Auckland as it would be great to meet.
Cheers
Simon
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If the M AF behaves anything like the contax then AF can be problematic. Yes, spot focus (C doesnt have) helps, but in general landscapes are better if you just focus at infinity, esp for blow ups.
All the AF have tp make assumptions; not necessarily what the photograpger wants.
I find the 35mm can be used if you do not have strong foreground contrasts otherwise, use manual and or infinity.
Having Leica's for many years I find MF MF easier. WHen I want to use AF check where the focus IS. I often get the focus, depress shutter halfway to trap and then recompose. Works for sport very well.
BTW, congrads on getting a good 28mm. For all the complaints and fuss, I see MFDB winning out over any DSLR for many applications, WA lanscape and interiors are two.
regards
Victor
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Hi Victor,
Used my new Mamiya 28mm yesterday on location for the first time at a stud farm in Cambridge for Lexus.
Very sharp
Cheers
Simon