Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: mcfoto on December 08, 2007, 05:14:22 am
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Hi
Here are the links
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...F5532AC105B5C93 (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=EF5532AC105B5C93)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...5AC9A780B8A57CC (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=45AC9A780B8A57CC)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...32B6D01573F2130 (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=F32B6D01573F2130)
These downloads are good for 7 days. These are for evaluation only. I will try to do more.
I feel that at iso 50 the ZD has a slight edge. Since I own both cameras the Canon viewfinder smokes the ZD camera. But at the same time the bottom LCD screen on the ZD is larger & better than the Canon. Please note my ZD sensor is a little dirty at the moment. Please have fun on how you process these files. I feel Canon has done a great job. The ZD camera is from March 1996 with no firm ware
up grades. Canon file #13 ( iso 100 ) ZD files # 5891 ( iso 50 ) & #5892 ( 100 ). The Mamiya was shot at 1/250 120 macro ( 50 ) & the Canon at ( 100 ) with the 70-200 f4 IS @ 1/320 all hand held.
You may ask why but I shoot hand held almost all the time. The iso default for these cameras are 50 ZD & 100 Canon. The Canon was at neutral in Picture Style & the ZD has no sharpening in camera.
Thanks Denis
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Hi
Here are the links
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...F5532AC105B5C93 (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=EF5532AC105B5C93)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...5AC9A780B8A57CC (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=45AC9A780B8A57CC)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...32B6D01573F2130 (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=F32B6D01573F2130)
These downloads are good for 7 days. These are for evaluation only. I will try to do more.
I feel that at iso 50 the ZD has a slight edge. Since I own both cameras the Canon viewfinder smokes the ZD camera. But at the same time the bottom LCD screen on the ZD is larger & better than the Canon. Please note my ZD sensor is a little dirty at the moment. Please have fun on how you process these files. I feel Canon has done a great job. The ZD camera is from March 1996 with no firm ware
up grades. Canon file #13 ( iso 100 ) ZD files # 5891 ( iso 50 ) & #5892 ( 100 ). The Mamiya was shot at 1/250 120 macro ( 50 ) & the Canon at ( 100 ) with the 70-200 f4 IS @ 1/320 all hand held.
You may ask why but I shoot hand held almost all the time. The iso default for these cameras are 50 ZD & 100 Canon.
Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159202\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the effort...
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I feel that at iso 50 the ZD has a slight edge. Since I own both cameras the Canon viewfinder smokes the ZD camera. (...) The ZD camera is from March 1996 with no firm ware up grades.
Thank you very much Dennis. As I am interested in both cameras, I have downloaded both, indeed I think the highlights are smoother in the ZD file, less burned out, DR a bit larger, and the shadows (tree silhouettes on the left) are mushier with the canon also. But detail is close enough to give up the ZD advantage for the much better convenience of the Canon (high ISO, speed, lens system etc.).
A used ZD SLR is now slightly below a new 1ds3 price, but with the ZD you are normally bound to ISO50-100 and mostly need a tripod.
BTW, you must have a *very* early ZD from March 1996 - Wow! :-)
regards
Bernie
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Thank you very much Dennis. As I am interested in both cameras, I have downloaded both, indeed I think the highlights are smoother in the ZD file, less burned out, DR a bit larger, and the shadows (tree silhouettes on the left) are mushier with the canon also. But detail is close enough to give up the ZD advantage for the much better convenience of the Canon (high ISO, speed, lens system etc.).
A used ZD SLR is now slightly below a new 1ds3 price, but with the ZD you are normally bound to ISO50-100 and mostly need a tripod.
BTW, you must have a *very* early ZD from March 1996 - Wow! :-)
regards
Bernie
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159208\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi
You do not need a tripod with the ZD for most applications. The test with the ZD had a lower shutter speed than the Canon in this test. I think Canon has done a remarkable job with this camera.
Thanks Denis
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Thanx for your effort!
After equalizing the crop in iso100 files, there is nothing blown in either file (I processed both in ACR). DR seems quite similar. Tough competition...
Cheers,
J
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Thanx for your effort!
After equalizing the crop in iso100 files, there is nothing blown in either file (I processed both in ACR). DR seems quite similar. Tough competition...
Cheers,
J
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159214\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i wonder what will happen now to the prices of the first/second hand 22mp backs... not only from mamiya.
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hi Rainer,
Prices of the Sinarback 54 M/MC (22 MPx single shot) have already been reduced by more than 40% and since August. The SB 54 H (multishot)price has been reduced by 20% starting January '08.
best regards,
Thierry
i wonder what will happen now to the prices of the first/second hand 22mp backs... not only from mamiya.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159218\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thanx for your effort!
After equalizing the crop in iso100 files, there is nothing blown in either file (I processed both in ACR). DR seems quite similar. Tough competition...
Cheers,
J
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159214\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I would say the Canon looks much better. Your Canon already has a lot of Dust Blobs everywhere. Did it arrive like that?
Snook
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I have done a comparision today with the Leaf Aptus vs de 1DsIII.
Only one setup (had to rush it).
I hope to take some more time in the nearby future.
I will open a new topic tonight for that.
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Hi Denis,
Somebody on this forum once said that they like to shoot clouds. Can you put up something other than clouds? Thanks!
David
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I would say the Canon looks much better. Your Canon already has a lot of Dust Blobs everywhere. Did it arrive like that?
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159222\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi
Make sure you are looking at the right file & yes there is some dust on the Canon & it brand new with less than 20 shots.
Denis
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Hi
I have been looking at both files ZD (50) & Canon (100) as these are the default for these cameras. I was looking where the crane is on the left hand corner @ 200% on a side by side comparison in LR. The ZD file is a little sharper & smoother. I feel the Canon is not as smooth in the sky area here. I will have to take more shots. But now I will be using both cameras at the same time now. If there is a ZDII in the future it will have to be with the 33 mp chip or the kodax 39 mp chip. The big difference when you pick up these two cameras is the view finder, the Canon 1Ds3 is incredible!!!!!
Thanks Denis
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Hi
I have been looking at both files ZD (50) & Canon (100) as these are the default for these cameras. I was looking where the crane is on the left hand corner @ 200% on a side by side comparison in LR. The ZD file is a little sharper & smoother. I feel the Canon is not as smooth in the sky area here. I will have to take more shots. But now I will be using both cameras at the same time now. If there is a ZDII in the future it will have to be with the 33 mp chip or the kodax 39 mp chip. The big difference when you pick up these two cameras is the view finder, the Canon 1Ds3 is incredible!!!!!
Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159281\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
How deos the noise grain compare? not at high ISO 'obviously Canon wins'.
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The most important difference to me is that in Canon's file sky is overblown in the location of the sun. ZD is capable to cover a much larger dynamic range. (I used latest SilkyPix to process the raw files)
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The most important difference to me is that in Canon's file sky is overblown in the location of the sun. ZD is capable to cover a much larger dynamic range. (I used latest SilkyPix to process the raw files)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159287\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The Canon shot is swivelled more into the sun and is therefore trying to accommodate a greater dynamic range. The field-of-view is matched horizontally, between the two cameras, except it's a slightly different field .
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The Canon shot is swivelled more into the sun and is therefore trying to accommodate a greater dynamic range. The field-of-view is matched horizontally, between the two cameras, except it's a slightly different field .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159290\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi
You are correct the Canon is more to the sun.
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Hi
You are correct the Canon is more to the sun.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159292\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You've also put the Canon at a slight disadvantage in respect of lens resolution by using f14. The 1Ds3 needs all the resolution it can get because of its great pixel density. It has the pixel density of a 20D or 30D. I think most people who use these cameras would agree that any lens at f14 will produce a slight softening. However, with the lower pixel density of my full frame 5D, I probably wouldn't notice it in a shot like this. The ZD has about the same pixel density as a 5D, slightly less maybe.
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For this type of shooting the 1Ds2 always did well. It has a bias towards the reds, so sunsets look punchy. The 1Ds2 if exposed for highlights had a nice roll-off, and as for dark areas, who cares, they're just going to black anyway. The 1Ds2 did well in this regard, and I expect no less from a 1Ds3. These are the 1Ds2 -
(http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Photographs/Pages/Hawaii_-_Big_Island_files/Media/XV9V0029/web.jpg)
(http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Photographs/Pages/Hawaii_-_Big_Island_files/Media/XV9V9938/web.jpg)
(http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Photographs/Pages/Hawaii_-_Big_Island_files/Media/XV9V0827/web.jpg)
(http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Photographs/Pages/Hawaii_-_Big_Island_files/Media/XV9V0870/web.jpg)
For images such as those above, the 5D had problems because it would clip the sun in a very harsh way. One of the channels would blow about 1/2 to 1 stop earlier than the others there would be greenish or some other colored halo around the sun. The 1Ds2 does it too, but to a much, much lesser degree. IMO scene like this will stress test the sensors much more so -
(http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Photographs/Pages/Banff_files/Media/XV9V8847/web.jpg)
(http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Photographs/Pages/Banff_files/Media/XV9V8870/web.jpg)
There are parts of the snow bank that are just blown. In a small web size it's not a big deal, in print (24'x30") the loss of texture makes the image look a bit too polished (IMO). It's just a mass of white. Both pictures are the same scene; one @ ~24mm and the other @ 200mm. Trying coax much more out of those image isn't possible; and I don't like the HDR comic book look. Normally I'd shoot a scene like that with a graduated filter, but with 200/1.8 it wasn't possible. I did used a CPL to hedge the exposure.
Whether the 1Ds3 can match the detail in a 22 MP back (or come close enough) doesn't matter to me. It's about the dynamic range, how clean the ISO 50 and ISO 100 shadows are, and color fidelity (gradient quality & smoothness).
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Enlightening comments John.
By the way, where was that shot of the lake framed by the mountains (with green trees) taken?
Sean
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The sunset pix were in Hawaii this past September. The mountain pix with in Banff, Lake Loraine I think. If you like landscapes, GO TO BANFF!!!! Awesome location to shoot because there are views everywhere and not much hiking needed.
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The sunset pix were in Hawaii this past September. The mountain pix with in Banff, Lake Loraine I think. If you like landscapes, GO TO BANFF!!!! Awesome location to shoot because there are views everywhere and not much hiking needed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159321\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
John,
Very nice shots! I agree with you that DR, color, and anti-blooming are more important than number of pixels.
Eric
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I feel that at iso 50 the ZD has a slight edge. Since I own both cameras the Canon viewfinder smokes the ZD camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159202\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Denis,
Much thanks for making the comparison, very interesting. Please let us hear and see more.
Canon viewfinder, would you please give more details?
Regards
Anders
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John, some nice shots there but the DR doesn't appear to be great. The image of the snowy mountain for example seem to contain both over and under-exposed areas.
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Hi
Here goes round 2.Links are below:
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...E035A932B993C39 (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=2E035A932B993C39)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...47E81FE5A03791E (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=647E81FE5A03791E)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...E5126D62B70283D (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=AE5126D62B70283D)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...427115175BAE2B3 (http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=0427115175BAE2B3)
This time the Canon was shot at iso 100 hand held on P mode.The ZD was shot at iso 50 hand held on P mode. I will try the 85 mm on the Canon this week. But for now this is my decision lens wise. The 70-200 4.0 IS lens is a beauty.
From what I see there isn't much in it between these two cameras file quality wise. The Canon view finder appears to be 50% larger than the ZD. Also it is at least a stop brighter & very clear compared to the ZD. I will still use the ZD camera & I am very happy with the shots I have created with the ZD since March 1996. I am blown away with what Canon has done with this camera, this has been a big surprise for me! I used to shoot with my Canon EOS 1 most of the time when I shot film. Now this Canon 1DsMKIII will be a big part in our future photography assignments. I think this camera will do damage to the MF market especially in the 22 mp sector. Believe me I love using the ZD & Aptus 22 but this new Canon has really surprised me!!! Please note these samples are only for tests.
Thanks Denis
ps sorry I posted this on the Leaf/ Canon thread
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Denis Montalbetti
Montalbetti+Campbell
www.montalbetticampbell.com
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John, some nice shots there but the DR doesn't appear to be great. The image of the snowy mountain for example seem to contain both over and under-exposed areas.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159352\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Graham, I didn't say the DR range in those images was that large, but it was more than the 1Ds2 could handle --- if you wanted to see detail in cliffs/mountain sides. Those images are heavily processed to bring out the shadow detail, anymore and it would look too artificial and/or the files would begin to fall apart.
The best Canon can say about the 1Ds3 DR is "same or similar", which really means "the same or less". If the DR was improved then any company in their right mind would point out the improvement. With 14 bits maybe the 1Ds3 shadow areas can be pushed further during post processing, but the underlying dynamic range is still the "same or similar" to the 1Ds2. Compared to the original 1Ds, I think the 1Ds2 picked up about 1 stop of DR and the 1Ds2's fidelity as the channels began to clip was much improved too. Had Canon achieved the same amount improvement from the 1Ds2 to 1Ds3, then I would probably buy a 1Ds3.
Ask me after 12 months with P25, maybe I'll have a different opinion then
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Pretty sure thats Lake Louise, Bannf National Park, and shooting location looks to be just in front of the Lodge, right on the foreshore. The 'snow' up top, is actually a Glacier.
Been there in Winter, that lake gets 2m-4m thick ice. Want to go back in summer, and that shot just reminded me why !.
Regards
Mark Farnan.
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I am blown away with what Canon has done with this camera, this has been a big surprise for me! I used to shoot with my Canon EOS 1 most of the time when I shot film. Now this Canon 1DsMKIII will be a big part in our future photography assignments.
Denis,
which type of assignments would you now use the Mk III for?
And, for which type of assignments do you think it would not be suitable?
Thanks,
Sean
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Denis,
which type of assignments would you now use the Mk III for?
And, for which type of assignments do you think it would not be suitable?
Thanks,
Sean
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160019\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi
I will use it for editorial & print advertising.
I will have to do a portrait with the Canon. What will be nice is the speed compared to MFD. The Aptus 22 & ZD are 1.2 fs which is good to work with.I find any slower than that & I go nuts! I have used the Aptus 65 & find that too slow & I know they now have the 65s which is much faster. When I look at the specs of all the digital backs for how we shoot I would only shoot with the Aptus or some of the Sinar backs. What will be nice is working with this new Canon because I used to shoot a lot with the EOS film cameras.
Thanks Denis
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Hi
I will use it for editorial & print advertising.
I will have to do a portrait with the Canon. What will be nice is the speed compared to MFD. The Aptus 22 & ZD are 1.2 fs which is good to work with.I find any slower than that & I go nuts! I have used the Aptus 65 & find that too slow & I know they now have the 65s which is much faster. When I look at the specs of all the digital backs for how we shoot I would only shoot with the Aptus or some of the Sinar backs. What will be nice is working with this new Canon because I used to shoot a lot with the EOS film cameras.
Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160032\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Glad your all excited about the 1DsMIII but you should have gotten a 1DsMII a long time ago and you could have enjoyed all that excitement a long time ago. They are not Much different..
Just a little bit bigger file than the 1DsMII and the DR is not much better. Actually a lot of people reporting that the Anti alias filter is much stronger on the 1DsMIII.. Which is not good in my opinion.
mcfoto I find it really hard to believe you have soo much excitement over the 1DsMIII, Like it is some new Platform..
You should have tried a Canon several years ago ..
I for one do not like it at all.. And Have recently gone the other way. Going MF.
Funny how things work out..:+}
Enjoy your new toy
Snook
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I've always been impressed by the ability to recover "blown" highlights with the ZD - masses of headroom. How is the 1Ds III in comparison, Denis?
Quentin
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I've always been impressed by the ability to recover "blown" highlights with the ZD - masses of headroom. How is the 1Ds III in comparison, Denis?
Quentin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160202\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi down load the raw files & do a comparison. They are good till Saturday Dec 15th.
Denis
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These are very, very helpful Dennis. Thanks a lot!
Do you see that the ZD has an advantage in terms of D.R.? (these samples do not seem to test that area of performance.)
-thanks again.