Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: godtfred on December 01, 2007, 07:23:53 pm
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I shoot people jumping and doing motion stuff from time to time, and even if I use my H2's top sync speed of 1/800, i seem to get a slight blur every time, the blur is the same, no matter what sync speed i use (unless it starts dipping below 1/80 or so, but I never go there unless i need it for effect.)
I don't get this on my canon 5D to the same degree, and have no explanation for it. I have speculated on these three possibilities:
1. The P45+ (previously H3D) has a larger resolution, and this somehow captures the blur more "clearly". I don't see why it should be like this, but a dealer brought this as an explanation.
2. I use one pack with pocketwizards, and let the other ones sync by the first packs flash burst. Effectively this would mean one pack flashes first, and all the others at the same time, but with a small delay behind the first. Could this be the culprit (and do i then need to buy a lot of pocketwizard recievers?)
3. My Profotos just don't have a short enough flash burst at medium power? (I use an Acute2 1200, a Pro-B and AcuteB600R, as well as some compacts if I need it.)
Anyone have the bullet proof recipie for motion stopping studio strobe use with a P45+ on a H2.
-axel
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Ideas
MF = slower ISO = more power on flashes = longer druation of flash ??
test the P45 and 5d at SAME ISO
Else
the 'PW problem'
(you might be able to solve this by using the PW to fire a small strobe on low power which would then trigger all the bright flashes at the same time)
Reprt back please
S
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I shoot people jumping and doing motion stuff from time to time, and even if I use my H2's top sync speed of 1/800, i seem to get a slight blur every time, the blur is the same, no matter what sync speed i use (unless it starts dipping below 1/80 or so, but I never go there unless i need it for effect.)
I don't get this on my canon 5D to the same degree, and have no explanation for it. I have speculated on these three possibilities:
1. The P45+ (previously H3D) has a larger resolution, and this somehow captures the blur more "clearly". I don't see why it should be like this, but a dealer brought this as an explanation.
2. I use one pack with pocketwizards, and let the other ones sync by the first packs flash burst. Effectively this would mean one pack flashes first, and all the others at the same time, but with a small delay behind the first. Could this be the culprit (and do i then need to buy a lot of pocketwizard recievers?)
3. My Profotos just don't have a short enough flash burst at medium power? (I use an Acute2 1200, a Pro-B and AcuteB600R, as well as some compacts if I need it.)
Anyone have the bullet proof recipie for motion stopping studio strobe use with a P45+ on a H2.
-axel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I can Tell you have posted in many forums asking the same question because I always got it but with the 1DsMII and 1Ds.
The Acutes 1200 actually have pretty bad Short flash duration and are the worst of the line almost.
I have 3 Acute 1200R packs and several Compact Mono s as well and the 600BR.
You must use the pack with like one head on Minimum power.
Forget the Compact they STINK for Freezing also.
Some Bowens like the 1500 mono and the 750's are actually pretty darn good.
I got in many deep discussions with people trying to tell me I need to Black out the studio etc... That was very obvious to me since I have been shooting for 18 years.
It has a lot to do with Flash duration.
I know I guy that shoots with the P45 and he told me he would never use it for an action stuff or Kinds that run a round a lot..:+}
But I am sure it is the lights most likely.
Check out the Flash Durations on the Info for the Lights you have or want.
The Acute 600BR actually has a short flash duration and I use that a lot or my Bowens over the Acutes.
Hope that may help you a little
Snook
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I shoot people jumping and doing motion stuff from time to time, and even if I use my H2's top sync speed of 1/800, i seem to get a slight blur every time, the blur is the same, no matter what sync speed i use (unless it starts dipping below 1/80 or so, but I never go there unless i need it for effect.)
I don't get this on my canon 5D to the same degree, and have no explanation for it. I have speculated on these three possibilities:
1. The P45+ (previously H3D) has a larger resolution, and this somehow captures the blur more "clearly". I don't see why it should be like this, but a dealer brought this as an explanation.
2. I use one pack with pocketwizards, and let the other ones sync by the first packs flash burst. Effectively this would mean one pack flashes first, and all the others at the same time, but with a small delay behind the first. Could this be the culprit (and do i then need to buy a lot of pocketwizard recievers?)
3. My Profotos just don't have a short enough flash burst at medium power? (I use an Acute2 1200, a Pro-B and AcuteB600R, as well as some compacts if I need it.)
Anyone have the bullet proof recipie for motion stopping studio strobe use with a P45+ on a H2.
-axel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Godfrey,
My guess is that it is the flash duration of the Profoto packs. Neither the Acute 2 1200 or the Pro600B have fast flash durations. At full power the Acute 1200 will give you a flash duration of 1/560th at 1200ws with one Acute head. You can speed this up by going to a Twin head which will speed it up to 1/1000th. Also dialing down the power will give you a quicker flash duration.
If you have access to some Pro 7 units you can get a much fast flash duration. A Pro 7A 1200 pack will give you a starting flash duration of 1/2200th of a second at full power.
To put this in perspective most sports shooters shooting arena work will use a minimum of 1/2700th of a second and I believe the NBA requires 1/3000th of a second.
Other units that can get you a very fast flash duration are Broncolor Grafit, Elinchrom Micro S packs, Speedotron 2403 pack with a 105 head (2 cable or 4 cable). Elinchrom also used to make some very fast flash duration monolites. They were a special series and I am not sure they are still available.
Matt
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The extra resolution will mean more blur, but the greatest factor will be flash duration. You already have received some good advice here.
I'd recommend using Pro7 instead. The flash duration is as fast as 1/12,000. This is why I went for the Pro series over the Acute series.
I couldn't find a faster studio flash than the Profoto Pro series when I looked around. I don't have problems with blurred jumps.
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If you split the flash output into multiple heads, or use a bi tube head. That should shorten the flash duration as well. I used to use Normans and I know the full power duration at 2000 watt seconds was only rated at 240th second on those old Klunker 2000D packs. Using a lower power setting should shorten flash duration as well.
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Just to confirm those that posted before me, I can tell you the acutes have a slow flash duration.
I've got the profoto D4 1200 w/s pack. Its supposed to be fast but I measured the flash duration with my Mumford Time machine. At max power it went slower than 1/125 s. ( I think the Time machine reports .1T - so most of the flash, not just the .5T you see in spec sheets). I'll be your acutes are giving you a flash duration at max power of something like 1/200s or slower if they are similar to my D4.
You could confirm this shooting a series of images of some object where you hold the aperture constant and vary the shutter speed from like 1/200 to 1/800. If you find your histogram going down as you increase shutter speed then definitely the flash is slower than the shutter as if it were faster the exposure would be the same throughout the different speeds.
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Another thing to consider is your ISO and aperture. Assuming you shot wide open at 2.0 or 2.8 at ISO 200 and use full power of your 300W modeling lights they will have huge influence on your blur at almost any shutter speed. I was reading in the other post about Mamiya synch at 1/60 or 1/90 and a comment of this not being a problem in a studio. The only way I can see it not influencing the color temperature and blur would be in a completely dark studio. I shoot hot lights and HMI's all the time and know that three 300W modeling lights from portrait distance are more that adequate to capture perfect lighting. Even if your strobe burn at 1/2000 sec the shutter stays open for remaining of dialed shutter time and the sensor keeps on recording all motion luminated by your modeling lights.
Http://andrenapier.com (http://Http://andrenapier.com)
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I also noticed that DSLR's are much more sensitive to studio lights. When my A75S calls for 4.0 at set lights , Canon will be correctly exposed at almost 8.0. Matter of fact all my pro Elinchrom lights
are too strong for Canon wide open and I would be forced to use f11 or higher. This would have huge influence on the ratio of hot to strobe intensity and also on any recorded blur.
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Hi
For the best flash duration I use Broncolor Grafit @ 1/3200 duration. I rent these packs for the jobs that require movement. I use the AFDII with a Aptus 22 back or really it doesn't matter what you shoot on. I have not used the Prfoto pro 7 packs & I have heard they are good too. The advantage of the Broncolor Grafit packs is that you can dial in the flash duration. My Acute 12 pack is useless for movement in the studio.
denis
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You may want to contact a formar poster here,Peter Schafrick.
He has become know for his very compelling 'splash' images for advertising.
some examples of his work can be found in the 'liquid' gallery at www.peterschafrick.com
He has a lot of experience and has posted extensively on the flexframe forum recently
about flash duration,etc.
The short answer is that the Broncolor line has among the shortest flash durations
Mark
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I digital/lighting tech for a guy that shoots lot of beverage campaigns and he always shoots with Bron Grafits. I found that you can never use the CELL to slave the units mostly we use the Bron IRX trigger or hardwire and all packs need to be either at the same power setting or as you can dial in duration with the grafits at the same speed.
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all the flash units have faster flash duration at lower power. but if you need more power, a good idea is to use two packs on the lowest setting you can live with.
the pro7s are quite fast, but the broncolor grafit has a higher speed sync by some how cutting off the power before the flash duration is finished (some bron expert may explain better than me), but it comes at a cost of very low output.
when i have wanted quicker duration and more power, i have put two or more heads mounted in a softbox- its a cheaper way to do it than twin head.
years ago when i had elinchrom, i use to hire elinchom 250R ("R" was for a rapid version of the standard el250 mono), and they where real fast. ive also heard the new bowens packs are pretty fast.
paul
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AFAIK with a simple flash design, more powerful flash settings are *shorter*. I know this sounds weird, but that's what the original designer of the Elinchrom units told me.
Edmund
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Thanks everyone for excellent feedback. I guess I'm going to rent me a bron kit or a Pro 7 kit when I need action stopping power. I was looking at buying a D4 2400R in the near future, but now I may think again...
To the poster who wrote on the canons needing less light for the same f-stop, this is my experience as well. It seems to me my 5D has around ISO 150-180, when set to 100.
-axel
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Hi,
I also do ALOT of motion in the studio.
The flashduration is key.
I use an Elinchrom A head on a Ranger for the REAL FREEZING, on full power it gives me 1/5400 which is enough to freeze a jump.
If I want a slight blur in the feet but a perfect sharp face I will use the RX units, they will give you 1/3000 app.
On FULL power you will get the fastest flashduration, on low power the longest.
With the small on camera systems this is the opposite way.
But they are VERY on the lowest settings.
So in short it's all in the flashduration.
The only thing that took me a while to get used to was the slower lag in the Mamiya opposite to the Canons I used.
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On FULL power you will get the fastest flashduration, on low power the longest.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157628\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It is definitely the other way round on the Profoto Pro series. Not sure about others.
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It is definitely the other way round on the Profoto Pro series. Not sure about others.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157639\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Frank I cannot say much about Elinchroms , But they must be the ONLY ones that work that way.
you MUST have the Packs on LOWEST setting to get the SHORTEST flash duration on MOST ANY PACKS... Period!
So what your saying is just the OPPOSITE of the norm!
But hey.. Maybe Elinchrom did something special in their packs.
But it is opposite on:
Profoto
Hensel
Bowens
Speedotron
Dynalites
Broncolor
Norman.
Snook
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Capacitors work like a 55 gallon drum filled with water. When I poke a hole in the bottom of the drum the water at first comes out fast and as it gets closer to the bottom it slows down. Most packs when running at half power will only fill up a capacitor half way which gives you the slower part of the discharge. Bank switching of capacitors when dialing a pack down, and not filling all the capacitors will make for quicker flash duration, but will place some capacitors into overuse. On some packs there is circuitry designed to stop the flow of currency before the capacitor is fully discharged, hence allowing only the fastest part of the discharge to the heads.
There was also mention of bi-tube heads and how they effect flash duration. Using the 55 gallon drum filled with water example again, if I fill it with water and poke two holes in the bottom, the water evacuates twice as fast, hence shorter flash duration. The same can often be achieved with multiple heads, as long as the pack doesn't have separate banks for each lamp head outlet. In part this is why Speedotron hangs from the rafters of the majority of Pro Sports Arenas in the States, quad-tube head, big power, decent recharge time despite having the elegance of an anvil.
For quick flash duration work it's also important not to rely on white light slaves. To date I haven't seen any packs or slaves that don't produce a slight delay, although quite possibly splitting hairs for most subjects. Best to hardwire the packs or use multiple receivers with pocket wizards or any other type of wireless transmitters.
I hope that someone can make use of this information while also understanding that it might not be absolute with the type of gear they are using. I did my testing using a flash duration meter and a variety of packs at my disposal, Broncolor, Speedo and Profoto being the primary. There are also quick burn flash tubes available from some of the manufacturers or third parties that will decrease flash duration but just as quickly decrease the life of a flash tube.
I also hope that there is some understanding and compassion for those of us who don't take pictures for a living but simply try to help those who do take better ones and provide the answers when they have a demanding or challenging set of circumstances.
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Frank I cannot say much about Elinchroms , But they must be the ONLY ones that work that way.
you MUST have the Packs on LOWEST setting to get the SHORTEST flash duration on MOST ANY PACKS... Period!
So what your saying is just the OPPOSITE of the norm!
I sometimes use fast (1/6600) Elinchroms and they are indeed fastest at the full power (indeed, full power means 250Ws for the monoblocs called "250R").
At least that's in specifications and the results in the real world seems to confirm that.
Also the A3000N heads give a pretty fast speed (1/2000 aprox) on the AS generators.
And also Hensel has a breed of pack/heads combination (I can't recall the names) capable of 1/7500, also at full power (1500Ws with all the 3 heads at a time, meaning 500ws per head).
They are the OPPOSITE of the norm because all use a different "scheme" of... well, downshifting, being designed mainly for short flash duration at full power.
The drawback is that all of these fast strobes are also shorter on life expectancy...
HTH
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Frank I cannot say much about Elinchroms , But they must be the ONLY ones that work that way.
you MUST have the Packs on LOWEST setting to get the SHORTEST flash duration on MOST ANY PACKS... Period!
So what your saying is just the OPPOSITE of the norm!
I sometimes use fast (1/6600) Elinchroms and they are indeed fastest at the full power (indeed, full power means 250Ws for the monoblocs called "250R").
At least that's in specifications and the results in the real world seems to confirm that.
Also the A3000N heads give a pretty fast speed (1/2000 aprox) on the AS generators.
And also Hensel has a breed of pack/heads combination (I can't recall the names) capable of 1/7500, also at full power (1500Ws with all the 3 heads at a time, meaning 500ws per head).
They are the OPPOSITE of the norm because all use a different "scheme" of... well, downshifting, being designed mainly for short flash duration at full power.
The drawback is that all of these fast strobes are also shorter on life expectancy...
HTH
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157691\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Now that was an explanation...
Thanks a lot and I agree with you...
Not sure what hensel you thinking of because I looked into them a lot when I was on the quest for Short Duration flashes..
In the Specs the Elinchroms are always way up there in the Short Duration...
Was going to buy some from B&H but they never have them in 240V? And went with another Brand..
Snook
Snook
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The reason flashes are shorter at lower power is because the flash tube is designed to operate at a specific brightness and colour temperature. The duration of the flash is the way in which the total light output is controlled.
Sorry but I can't believe that Elinchrom works the opposite way.
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I tested it EXTENSIVLY with both my Elinchrom and a very cheap Jinbei and BOTH operate much faster on full power than on the lowest setting.
You don't have to believe me, try it for yourself.
There are indeed different ways of using capaciters but I know that Elinchrom told me that if you build a flash system the correct way it should be that on full power the flash duration is the shortest.
I have not the technical background to discuss that, but I know from my own experience that it works.
And that most people claim the opposite, but I also know that alot of people have BIG problems in freezing action
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Now that was an explanation...
Thanks a lot and I agree with you...
Not sure what hensel you thinking of because I looked into them a lot when I was on the quest for Short Duration flashes..
In the Specs the Elinchroms are always way up there in the Short Duration...
Was going to buy some from B&H but they never have them in 240V? And went with another Brand..
Snook
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157714\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The Elinchromes miss out on the bayonet mount and the "plastic feeling" for me, but now I have this info on sync speed, I may get myself an RX 1200 power pack with a couple of heads, looks like a very good sync speed at a great price point!
-axel
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I tested it EXTENSIVLY with both my Elinchrom and a very cheap Jinbei and BOTH operate much faster on full power than on the lowest setting.
You don't have to believe me, try it for yourself.
There are indeed different ways of using capaciters but I know that Elinchrom told me that if you build a flash system the correct way it should be that on full power the flash duration is the shortest.
I have not the technical background to discuss that, but I know from my own experience that it works.
And that most people claim the opposite, but I also know that alot of people have BIG problems in freezing action
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157719\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If anyone close to San Francisco wants to test the Elinchrom strobes, I am happy to offer up my studio and mumford time machine with light cell for testing. Frank and I went around this subject a while back on the Open Photography forums which is what prompted me to test my profoto D4 and portable canon and metz flash units. These all got slower as power went up so I am really curious to know about the elinchrom. I'm sure if Frank uses them its true, but I would be interested to measure them.
I do see that some power packs now allow you to set the flash duration - so that is cool, but why wouldn't you always want the fastest? Is there a case where you would want a slower duration flash?
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I do see that some power packs now allow you to set the flash duration - so that is cool, but why wouldn't you always want the fastest? Is there a case where you would want a slower duration flash?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157722\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The blur during the exposure might be desirable and in some instances it might be conducive to have quick flash duration from one head while having long duration from another. This could leave a trailing effect from a moving subject while the hero portion is tack sharp and motionless.
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The blur during the exposure might be desirable and in some instances it might be conducive to have quick flash duration from one head while having long duration from another. This could leave a trailing effect from a moving subject while the hero portion is tack sharp and motionless.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157727\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yeah but could you not do this more easily with a hot light and a strobe with camera set to 2nd curtain?
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Yeah but could you not do this more easily with a hot light and a strobe with camera set to 2nd curtain?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I believe you could control this much easier with strobe and independent of shutter speed. More creative control with variable flash duration settings at various power levels. Certainly lots of way to get it done.
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Try the older Broncolor Pulso A4.
You can dial in the exact flash duration that you want, just like on the Grafit. But being the previous generation predecessor to the Grafit they are much less expensive. They sell for about $1,750 used.
They do have shorter durations as the power is reduced. Many people use a bi-tube head, either on the same pack (to get slightly more power out at the same duration) or on two packs.
I have them here if you want me to check on power at a specific duration, also have the manual. Great units!
Bron cites speeds in t0.1 most of the time, as mentioned. That is usually about 3x as long as teh t0.5 time that most manufacturers cite.
Best,
Michael
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Bron cites speeds in t0.1 most of the time, as mentioned. That is usually about 3x as long as teh t0.5 time that most manufacturers cite.
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Actually that's backwards, t0.1 is the duration all the way down to when the flash exposure is 10% of peak output as opposed to t0.5 which is measuring duration at 50% of peak output.
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Hi John!
I may not have said that correctly. What I meant to say, quoting Broncolor, is that if you have the t0.5 time that most manufacturers give, you can estimate the t0.1 time by multiplying by 3.
For example, if you have a t0.5 time of 1/750, multiplying by 3 gives 3/750 or 1/250. That is the approximate "stopping power" of the flash without blur.
That is because with the t0.5 time, as John mentions, only 50% of the flash discharge power has been completed. That extra 50% causes some motion blur. With a t0.1 time, only 10% is remaining, which is negligible.
So when you have a 1/5,000 t0.1 time from Bron, that is much shorter duration than an equivalent t0.5 time you might see in someone elses spec.
The best intuitive explanation I have heard is that t0.1 is more like a "shutter speed" time in terms of stopping power.
There is a nice discussion, and some examples, beginning on page 8 of this Broncolor PDF on the Grafit:
http://www.bron.ch/_data/bc_do_bs_grafitaplus_en.pdf (http://www.bron.ch/_data/bc_do_bs_grafitaplus_en.pdf)
As others have mentioned, the Profoto Pro 7 and D4 packs also have very good specs.
Best,
Michael
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The coefficient in front of the T refers to the amplitude of the intensity discharged so is not a percent but Michael is correct in that the .1T is longer than the .5 T
For most packs, the discharge is normally very much like a bell curve so the point from .5T on the way up to .5T on the way down is not necessarily a percentage. The more modern packs might even clip the tails of the curve or do something different in the delivery of the power to the flash tube, and I think the Brons control the curve with electronics so I don't know how it looks. But in any case to find out how much light is actually put out during the different points on the curve, you would have to take the integral (find the area) between the points. I'm pretty sure that if you did, (and I don't think many of us are interested so lets skip that part okay), you'd find that the amount of light between .1T and .5T up and .5 T and .1T on the way down is so much less than the amount between just the .5 that most companies sort of cheat and don't report the longer duration .1T times since it does not affect the image that much. The tail of the curve is long but low and it doesn't put out much light.
All that crappola being said a 1/5000 duration at .1T specs for the Broncolor is very good indeed. Next time I upgrade my strobes I know which one to buy!
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The Elinchromes miss out on the bayonet mount and the "plastic feeling" for me, but now I have this info on sync speed, I may get myself an RX 1200 power pack with a couple of heads, looks like a very good sync speed at a great price point!
-axel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157720\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I use the RX's for some years now. They are excellent quality for the price you pay. Fast, reliable, precise and very good pricing!
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This is straight from the technical department from Elinchrom.
A copy/paste from a mail a while ago when I was filming the Guide to modelphotography DVDs, I wanted the part on jump photography exactly right so I asked them because there is ALOT of talk about it online.
This is their answer.
Style RX for example:
At full power the flashduration is 1/2625 s
At half power the flashduration is 1/1870 s
At minimum power the flashduration is 1/1380 s
Style FX:
At full power the flashduration is 1/900 s
At minimum power the flashduration is about 1/600 s
they called me about it to explain it more in depth and according to the person I spoke it works that way for MOST modern flashunits, they gave me an example of a balloon.
When it's full and you put a needle in it it explodes at once.
When it's not 100% full it will slowly die but not explode.
I tested it after that phone call with both my Jinbei (old leftovers ) and FX/RX/Dlites/Rangers and on ALL it was clearly seen that full power was faster than low power.
On low power I could hardly get the face sharp, on full power even the hairs were frozen on the RX and the feet slightly blurred.
I don't know what other brands do, but according to what I heard from several other people most use this technique.
Again my technical knowledge is not sufficiant to explain it in depth, but I do know what I see
Greetings,
Frank
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I do see that some power packs now allow you to set the flash duration - so that is cool, but why wouldn't you always want the fastest? Is there a case where you would want a slower duration flash?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157722\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Broncolor Grafit allows you to set the flash duration but only at smaller power settings.
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This is straight from the technical department from Elinchrom.
A copy/paste from a mail a while ago when I was filming the Guide to modelphotography DVDs, I wanted the part on jump photography exactly right so I asked them because there is ALOT of talk about it online.
This is their answer.
Style RX for example:
At full power the flashduration is 1/2625 s
At half power the flashduration is 1/1870 s
At minimum power the flashduration is 1/1380 s
Style FX:
At full power the flashduration is 1/900 s
At minimum power the flashduration is about 1/600 s
they called me about it to explain it more in depth and according to the person I spoke it works that way for MOST modern flashunits, they gave me an example of a balloon.
When it's full and you put a needle in it it explodes at once.
When it's not 100% full it will slowly die but not explode.
I tested it after that phone call with both my Jinbei (old leftovers ) and FX/RX/Dlites/Rangers and on ALL it was clearly seen that full power was faster than low power.
On low power I could hardly get the face sharp, on full power even the hairs were frozen on the RX and the feet slightly blurred.
I don't know what other brands do, but according to what I heard from several other people most use this technique.
Again my technical knowledge is not sufficiant to explain it in depth, but I do know what I see
Greetings,
Frank
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Frank would you care to share what MOST OTHER flashes do it that way also you are talking about??
I cannot think of any? I agree with you that Elinchrom is that way and I always new they had the Shortest Flash Duration in their Medium Class Mono Blocks But,
MOST modern Flashes is exaggerated quite a bit.
Actually Elinchrom is the ONLY one I now know that does this.
Broncolor I cannot comment either. But like I said before.
MY MODERN Flashes:
Profoto
Hensel
Bowens
Do JUST the opposite. Shorter Duration at Lower Settings.
Good Luck...
Snook
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Broncolor Grafit allows you to set the flash duration but only at smaller power settings.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157864\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually the Broncolor Grafit lets you adjust flash duration throughout the range with the exception of at full power. For the fastest flash duration settings you certainly need to be at the lowest power settings, as it's skimming the top of fully charged capacitors, the portion in which they discharge the fastest.
I wish Broncolor would also advertise there t0.5 numbers. Although I believe they are somewhat a misnomer with so much light coming from the trailing edge of flash duration, at least we would have some real comparative numbers.
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I wish Broncolor would also advertise there t0.5 numbers. Although I believe they are somewhat a misnomer with so much light coming from the trailing edge of flash duration, at least we would have some real comparative numbers.
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Don't they?
If you follow this link:
[a href=\"http://www.bron.ch/_data/bc_do_ds_graftita2rfs_en.pdf]http://www.bron.ch/_data/bc_do_ds_graftita2rfs_en.pdf[/url]
the .pdf states both t0.1 and t0.5 numbers. If I recall correctly all the .pdf spec sheets from bron state this?
-axel
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Don't they?
If you follow this link:
http://www.bron.ch/_data/bc_do_ds_graftita2rfs_en.pdf (http://www.bron.ch/_data/bc_do_ds_graftita2rfs_en.pdf)
the .pdf states both t0.1 and t0.5 numbers. If I recall correctly all the .pdf spec sheets from bron state this?
-axel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157884\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks! Good to know and obviously my data sheets are older.
Also interesting is looking through my older literature and finding the introduction of the Grafit flyer, the state of the art power pack is now 11 years old. Doesn't seem like it was introduced that long ago .
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Here are the t0.1 numbers from a Broncolor Grafit A4 pack using a twin head (flash duration would be the same for two heads). The t0.1 rating as opposed to the t0.5 is two to three times as long as t0.5 measurements and a more accurate measurement of flash duration
3200ws 1/265th
1600ws 1/875th
800ws 1/2000th
400ws 1/3250th
200ws 1/4900th
100ws 1/7000th
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@snook,
As mentioned before this is what is told to me.
I don't have the technical background to explain it in depth.
The way it was explained to me is that if you use more capacitors in a head the speed will grow with output.
I have tested it with Elinchrom and Jinbei (cheap brand) and on BOTH the theory was correct.
According to the guy I spoke from Elinchrom the older strobes used a different method, but the modern versions would use the method with higher power/faster speeds.
Who am I to dissagree
I don't want to go into lengthy discussions, I take photos and they work the way I make them, I was just giving a tip to the one asking the question from MY experience.
If yours is different you can give yours, that's the way the forum works.
Don't ask me to explain something I already mentioned I cannot.
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Frank would you care to share what MOST OTHER flashes do it that way also you are talking about??
I cannot think of any? I agree with you that Elinchrom is that way and I always new they had the Shortest Flash Duration in their Medium Class Mono Blocks But,
MOST modern Flashes is exaggerated quite a bit.
Actually Elinchrom is the ONLY one I now know that does this.
Broncolor I cannot comment either. But like I said before.
MY MODERN Flashes:
Profoto
Hensel
Bowens
Do JUST the opposite. Shorter Duration at Lower Settings.
Good Luck...
Snook
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hi snook I'm afraid I have to back up Frank's observations...seems to be the case with certain elinchroms for some reason.
if anyone wants some stop motion action info by people who actually specialise in it check out
[a href=\"http://biwainc.blogspot.com/]http://biwainc.blogspot.com/[/url]
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hi snook I'm afraid I have to back up Frank's observations...seems to be the case with certain elinchroms for some reason.
if anyone wants some stop motion action info by people who actually specialise in it check out
http://biwainc.blogspot.com/ (http://biwainc.blogspot.com/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158100\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jing...
I Know Elinchroms are that way... I agreed 100%. What I did not agreed an others backed me up is that they are one of the only one that are that way!!!.
MOST other are just the opposite , you need to put them on minimum power to get the shortest Flash duration.
That is why at one time I was looking into Elinchroms but like I said B&H did not have them in 240V and I am not going to import them from Europe as it is way to expensive that way.
I was just trying to tell Frank that his statement about most packs he knows are like the Elinchroms, which is not exactly right.
Believe me I have been shooting people jumping inside and outside of the studio for MANY years and know what it takes to freeze them..
Snook
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Freezing them is easy, keeping them warm outside that's a different story
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Jing...
I Know Elinchroms are that way... I agreed 100%. What I did not agreed an others backed me up is that they are one of the only one that are that way!!!.
MOST other are just the opposite , you need to put them on minimum power to get the shortest Flash duration.
That is why at one time I was looking into Elinchroms but like I said B&H did not have them in 240V and I am not going to import them from Europe as it is way to expensive that way.
I was just trying to tell Frank that his statement about most packs he knows are like the Elinchroms, which is not exactly right.
Believe me I have been shooting people jumping inside and outside of the studio for MANY years and know what it takes to freeze them..
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158131\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
ah ok yes most packs get a shorter flash duration as they're powered down...don't be so harsh on Frank he's just unaware. =D
that's why we're here to share on the forum...
I used to use 240V elinchroms in Asia. you may want to check Hong Kong's dealers, I believe they have reasonable prices. Maybe you can take a trip and then pack it in your luggage haha
the Style S series is still my favourite...being able to adjust the flash power by a little tab you can push up and down....god what a genius design