Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Anders_HK on November 17, 2007, 08:21:11 am
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Hi
Been shooting the ZD camera parallel with Mamiya 7II. With Fuji Velvia 50 in the 7II, the 6x7's simply look amazing in color, detail and with a simple wow factor of chromes. Files from the ZD are really nice, but... perhaps I need to learn more of processing them... and can use some good advises .
Ok, the slides are in my hands and I will make Epson high quality flat bed scans of them and post here in about one week (I know a place that can get it done for me at that time). Before then, please show me what you can do in processing of my sample photos. I hope you are willing to teach me some new techniques or point me in directions to learn them. Kindly tell how you process and respect my copyright for other means. Any suggestions are welcome .
My procssed images from SilkyPix are attached, but I am also familiar with CS3 which I use at times. Use whatever program you prefer.
RAW file downloads (valid 7 days, first 100 downloads each):
Sunrise @ sea MMFC0513.MEF - http://download.yousendit.com/F9DE28C32C2B4127 (http://download.yousendit.com/F9DE28C32C2B4127)
Sunrise @ lake MMFC0623.MEF
- http://download.yousendit.com/F2DE4F745D7615E7 (http://download.yousendit.com/F2DE4F745D7615E7)
Temple MMFC0696.MEF - http://download.yousendit.com/D8CAF7A7181B5492 (http://download.yousendit.com/D8CAF7A7181B5492)
Much thanks
Regards
Anders
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Anders,
I don't know much about reworking landscapes; this thread is going to be interesting - thank you for posting these images.
Edmund
Hi
Been shooting the ZD camera parallel with Mamiya 7II. With Fuji Velvia 50 in the 7II, the 6x7's simply look amazing in color, detail and with a simple wow factor of chromes. Files from the ZD are really nice, but... perhaps I need to learn more of processing them... and can use some good advises .
Ok, the slides are in my hands and I will make Epson high quality flat bed scans of them and post here in about one week (I know a place that can get it done for me at that time). Before then, please show me what you can do in processing of my sample photos. I hope you are willing to teach me some new techniques or point me in directions to learn them. Kindly tell how you process and respect my copyright for other means. Any suggestions are welcome .
My procssed images from SilkyPix are attached, but I am also familiar with CS3 which I use at times. Use whatever program you prefer.
RAW file downloads (valid 7 days, first 100 downloads each):
Sunrise @ sea MMFC0513.MEF - http://download.yousendit.com/F9DE28C32C2B4127 (http://download.yousendit.com/F9DE28C32C2B4127)
Sunrise @ lake MMFC0623.MEF
- http://download.yousendit.com/F2DE4F745D7615E7 (http://download.yousendit.com/F2DE4F745D7615E7)
Temple MMFC0696.MEF - http://download.yousendit.com/D8CAF7A7181B5492 (http://download.yousendit.com/D8CAF7A7181B5492)
Much thanks
Regards
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153549\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Anders,
I don't know much about reworking landscapes; this thread is going to be interesting - thank you for posting these images.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153552\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Edmund,
Welcome . Please dont be shy.
Rgds
Anders
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Hi Anders,
Great test...but...and don't get mad with me here as I know we can only do what we can do but...wouldn't a fairer test be between drum scanned film not epson flat bed...I'm not sure if we should compare the best processed zd files to not the best scanned film file?
Marc
www.marcwilson.co.uk
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Thanks for posting these. I have been wanting to get my hands on some raw files from this thing. The jpgs i have seen in comparison to other MFDB look a little soft. I keep thinking it is because different raw converters with unique default settings were used. I can't wait to see the chromes.
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I'm with Mark, get better scans. At least imacon 848 or better, you're not doing your mamiya or this comparison any justice going with cheap scans.
-N
Hi Anders,
Great test...but...and don't get mad with me here as I know we can only do what we can do but...wouldn't a fairer test be between drum scanned film not epson flat bed...I'm not sure if we should compare the best processed zd files to not the best scanned film file?
Marc
www.marcwilson.co.uk
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153582\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi Anders,
Great test...but...and don't get mad with me here as I know we can only do what we can do but...wouldn't a fairer test be between drum scanned film not epson flat bed...I'm not sure if we should compare the best processed zd files to not the best scanned film file?
Marc
www.marcwilson.co.uk
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153582\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think doubtful if I can get drum scans but I will check. I have no place to get scans done where I am in Korea period. Will be in Shanghai next weekend where I have had scan done on quality Epson before. The guy said he was getting a new and better Epson scanner, perhaps V700, not sure (by memory think he said along with his new 1.5m?? wide Epson printer, & I know he is very good, print for photo art exhibits etc). Last time I spoke with him he said drum scan took few days and only little higher quality... I may not be able do that... but we shall see. Depends on price also... B.t.w. last time large prints in his gallery was from both drum and his then Epson scanner, also ones from scanner looked very good in comparison , so I am not sure how much difference we would see on web...
Waiting for your posts
Regards
Anders
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Here is my version
[attachment=3882:attachment]
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I think doubtful if I can get drum scans but I will check. I have no place to get scans done where I am in Korea period. Will be in Shanghai next weekend where I have had scan done on quality Epson before. The guy said he was getting a new and better Epson scanner, perhaps V700, not sure (by memory think he said along with his new 1.5m?? wide Epson printer, & I know he is very good, print for photo art exhibits etc). Last time I spoke with him he said drum scan took few days and only little higher quality... I may not be able do that... but we shall see. Depends on price also... B.t.w. last time large prints in his gallery was from both drum and his then Epson scanner, also ones from scanner looked very good in comparison , so I am not sure how much difference we would see on web...
Waiting for your posts
Regards
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153592\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
forget about epson scans. Absolutely useless!
get at least an Imacon scan.
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... I may not be able do that... but we shall see. Depends on price also... B.t.w. last time large prints in his gallery was from both drum and his then Epson scanner, also ones from scanner looked very good in comparison , so I am not sure how much difference we would see on web...
Waiting for your posts
Regards
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153592\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]
Hi anders,
Sorry if sounded negative before...did not mean to put you off at all.
I just know that medium format side film I have had flat bed scanned and then also imacon and drum scanned have shown a big difference in detail in landscape shots once you print up to 30inches wide etc. (I printed 10x8 sections to test some about two years ago to see if the drum scan was that much better then the imacon, but I know flatbed scanners have improved since then...sorry but I no longer have those tests)
But this is your test, and if the epson is the way you would scan your film then that is the comparison that will be important to you..and still interesting to others also.
Marc
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Here is five minutes with one of the zd files and photoshop. I processed the files two different ways and then blended and sharpened.
(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5417/mmfc0513assmartobject1ly7.jpg)
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Hi anders,
Sorry if sounded negative before...did not mean to put you off at all.
I just know that medium format side film I have had flat bed scanned and then also imacon and drum scanned have shown a big difference in detail in landscape shots once you print up to 30inches wide etc. (I printed 10x8 sections to test some about two years ago to see if the drum scan was that much better then the imacon, but I know flatbed scanners have improved since then...sorry but I no longer have those tests)
But this is your test, and if the epson is the way you would scan your film then that is the comparison that will be important to you..and still interesting to others also.
Marc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153603\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Marc,
No worries at all. It is very late here so my sleepy eyes did perhaps not make me write well in reply. Definently much like the clouds in your post . How did you process those?
All,
The guy that will scan it it is very young and has had his business for about two years. Before that he worked at Shanghai Epsite which is owned by Epson, so he has been trained by Epson. He is very talented and good at his work. His gallery impress me much each time I have visited. He can also send out for drum scan, but I am not sure how new drum scanners they may have or how good they are at doing drum scans. I will check and depending on price .
Much thanks for all posts, and please post details on how you process .
Regards
Anders
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I'm just curious which lenses did you use on these? The level of detail from the ZD on the temple shot is quite amazing.
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5 mins in PS
(http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/landscapetest_copy2.jpg)
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I'm just curious which lenses did you use on these? The level of detail from the ZD on the temple shot is quite amazing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153618\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Marc,
Much kind thanks for your postings. That was the 55-110 AF, for the other two the 35mm AF. I think I used MUP on all, but I may have missed also .
Regards
Anders
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forget about epson scans. Absolutely useless!
get at least an Imacon scan.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153602\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ok, will try , no promises....
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Marc,
Much kind thanks for your postings. That was the 55-110 AF, for the other two the 35mm AF. I think I used MUP on all, but I may have missed also .
Regards
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153622\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
WOW, after all that talk of the 55-110 being a dog I could sure use that dog in my pack. I'm sure that it is normal for most of you MFDB peeps but for a DSLR shooter that looks pretty darn good.
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A couple of interpretations from the first one, a traditional and a polaroid-like one.
Arnau
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Anders,
Here is my interpretation of your landscape scene with the processing steps I took. As with anything like this, each individual has their own vision/idea of how the scene should look.
[attachment=3885:attachment]
I opened the file in Camera RAW two times.
I used two different settings and opened one image for the shadows pretty much as is and opened one image to open up the shadows a bit.
The Camera RAW settings are shown here:
[attachment=3886:attachment]
[attachment=3887:attachment]
I took the lighter image and copied it onto the darker image.
I set the lighter layer at 50% opacity in the layer pallette.
I duplicated the lighter layer.
I added layer masks as shown in the final attachment. The upper layer was masked a bit darker than the lower. This was done to keep the sun in the valley the same as the original darker image yet raise the shadow area up and fill in some detail.
I finally added a hue/saturation adjustment layer with the saturation at 20%.
[attachment=3888:attachment]
Whoops! I just noticed the layer masks were not visible in the screen capture so I made a new one and added it here:
[attachment=3899:attachment]
I can provide the full Photoshop file for you if you wish to see the full image.
Best regards,
Todd Asher
www.tjasher.com
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forget about epson scans. Absolutely useless!
get at least an Imacon scan.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153602\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It will be interesting to compare the digital with an epson scan because that is what's practical for most on a regular basis.
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I'm a photographer based in Shanghai. I could probably get you the details of a place that does Imacom scans in the next day or so. I'm not sure what they charge per MB.
Regards,
Derryck.
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Much kind thanks to all so far. Please keep them coming! Complete freedom for your interpretations of the scenes.
*** Please add details on processing to those that yet not have. ***
Will get Epson on the three, and drum on at least one if I can . We shall see...
Regards
Anders
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I'm a photographer based in Shanghai. I could probably get you the details of a place that does Imacom scans in the next day or so. I'm not sure what they charge per MB.
Regards,
Derryck.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Derryck,
That would be great! Are they open on Saturdays?
By chance are you member of Shanghai Photography Club, I am .
Regards
Anders
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Ok, the slides are in my hands and I will make Epson high quality flat bed scans of them and post here in about one week (I know a place that can get it done for me at that time).
Anders, if you're interested in a comparison, then a drum scan will offer the best comparison. An Imacon won't provide the kind of shadow detail and tonal separation possible from a Velvia chrome.
A quick Google search of just South Korea provided this link (http://www.drum-scan.com/main.htm).
Happy Shooting!
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Hi Anders,
I will check about opening on Saturdays. I haven't shot film in the three years that I've been here. I'm on my way out to shoot the final of the Tennis Masters Cup so I have to go. But feel free to drop me a line and maybe we can meet up sometime either at my studio or at a cafe.
Cheers,
Derryck.
www.derryckmenere.com
info@derryckmenere.com
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Hi Anders,
I will check about opening on Saturdays. I haven't shot film in the three years that I've been here. I'm on my way out to shoot the final of the Tennis Masters Cup so I have to go. But feel free to drop me a line and maybe we can meet up sometime either at my studio or at a cafe.
Cheers,
Derryck.
www.derryckmenere.com
info@derryckmenere.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153722\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Derryck,
Much kind thanks! I am an amateur but it would be interesting to meet up, if not this time another of my visits. Next week will be my 9th visit to Shanghai this year alone and I lived there in 2003/2004. Shanghai Photography Club is mostly passionate amateurs, both expats and locals. I know one of the ones who run it since its early start in 2003 and she is also involved in Poco gatherings.
I think Seoul can be difficult and expensive with drum scans and I am four hours away from there. It is more difficult to arrange things in Korea due culture and language barriers combined. The lab in Seoul that process my films would have charged me 50USD for scanning a roll of 35mm slides... God knows what scanner they may use..., and all I can use to communicate is an order form in Korean... complete in blind . Shanghai is great . The guy I used for film scan and prints before is Trias Design on Moganshan Lu. Let me see what he replies too...
Regards
Anders
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Thanks for the ZD files this is fun!
Marc
[attachment=3889:attachment]
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I sit in a home office surrounded by prints from Mamiya 7II drum scans and prints from a Mamiya ZD. My view is that the ZD is marginally better, even though the Velvia drum scans reveal slightly more detail at the pixel level when viewed on screen (just a rough estimate as I'm not comparing identical shots). Dynamic range is no contest, the ZD is a mile ahead, although I am using Velvia as a reference point; Provia has wider dynamic range as everyone knows.
You can hand hold the 7II at very low shutter speeds, which is not the case with the ZD.
Much as I loved the 7II, I would not want to go back to it after using the ZD.
Quentin
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SilkyPix + Photoshop
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My shot at it...
(http://www.pebbleplacephotography.com/FM/mamiya.jpg)
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Oops! I just realized my layer masks were not visible in my original post. I went back and corrected it.
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Folks, how about the temple????
Dont be shy...
Anders
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Folks, how about the temple????
Dont be shy...
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
For me the temple looks really good "right out of the box" with next to no processing. Any processing, IMHO, would be entirely subjective and not really demonstrate slide vs digi theme. So I didn't post my results as I figured most everyone would have the same.
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My processing in Lightroom...
Best regards
Erik
[attachment=3912:attachment]
[attachment=3913:attachment]
[attachment=3914:attachment]
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my try. don't know how it looks with the jpeg.
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another version...
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My processing in Lightroom...
Best regards
Erik
[attachment=3912:attachment]
[attachment=3913:attachment]
[attachment=3914:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154223\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[attachment=3921:attachment][attachment=3920:attachment]
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Anders,
Thanks for posting.
For my version I used ACR and photoshop to convert it to a 16-bit tiff.
This was just a way of getting the image into Photomatix, which couldn't
read the Mamiya raw file. Then I used the "Detail Enhancer" feature
of Photomatix to "tone map" the image ("strength" on high and light
smoothing on high). Afterward, I brought it back into Photoshop
for touching up, cropping and a curve for overall contrast adjustment.
15 minutes.
Tony
[attachment=3922:attachment]
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SCANNING the 6x7s:
(1) How many MB from each 6x7 would be sufficient for web posting here, Epson/Drum??
(2) Likewise, how many MB scans to show quality in prints for my eyes??
Got email from the guy I used before in Shanghai:
Epson 4870, cost 1.0 China RMB per MB
Drum, cost 1.2 China RMB per MB (unkown drum scanner)
Expect files here Monday or Tuesday due drum scanning, his retouch of Epson and sending them by internet to me. Based on your comments I will select what to do .
Regards
Anders
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SCANNING the 6x7s:
(1) How many MB from each 6x7 would be sufficient for web posting here, Epson/Drum??
(2) Likewise, how many MB scans to show quality in prints for my eyes??
Got email from the guy I used before in Shanghai:
Epson 4870, cost 1.0 China RMB per MB
Drum, cost 1.2 China RMB per MB (unkown drum scanner)
Expect files here Monday or Tuesday due drum scanning, his retouch of Epson and sending them by internet to me. Based on your comments I will select what to do .
Regards
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154325\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
there are some shitty drum scanners out there mind you...I was in Singapore and sent some files for drum scans and they turned out oversharpened and lacking in grain structure for some reason...I'm sticking with my imacon scans.
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SCANNING the 6x7s:
(1) How many MB from each 6x7 would be sufficient for web posting here, Epson/Drum??
(2) Likewise, how many MB scans to show quality in prints for my eyes??
Got email from the guy I used before in Shanghai:
Epson 4870, cost 1.0 China RMB per MB
Drum, cost 1.2 China RMB per MB (unkown drum scanner)
Expect files here Monday or Tuesday due drum scanning, his retouch of Epson and sending them by internet to me. Based on your comments I will select what to do .
Regards
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154325\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Any suggestion on what file size I should have scanned to???
Rgds
Anders
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Hi,
I don't really understand the question. If you want to post something which is intended for display on the screen I would expect that 1024x768 would be just nice. To convert it MB you would need to use the following formula
1024*768*3/1048576
which would be 2.25 MByte
If you would use 16 bits/color the file size would be doubled, that is 4.5 MByte.
Regarding scanning I have a feeling that the following would probably apply for 6x7 scans
1) You should scan at a minimum of 1600 PPI
2) Going above 3200 PPI would in my experience give diminishing returns
File size for 16 MByte 16 bits/color scan from 6x7 (assuming size of 55x69 mm) would be
Height= 55/25.4 -> 2.165"
Width = 69/25.4 -> 2.71"
BytesPerColor = 16/8 -> 2
The formula is:
With * Height * PPI * PPI * 3 * BytePerColor / 1048576
1600 PPI -> 86 MByte
3200 PPI -> 344 MByte
The magic number 1048576 is 1024*1024. It is the size of a MByte. It may also be 1000000. The first size is the one normally used in computer science and latter one is often used when talking about size of hard disks (because smaller Mbytes make a larger number).
The normal approach is that you scan at the highest resolution you have access to and scale down to the size needed (using "Bicubic sharper?" in PS). You always need to sharpen after changing scale.
Best regards
Erik
Any suggestion on what file size I should have scanned to???
Rgds
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154813\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi Anders -- this should be fun can't wait to see the scans -- here is a quick attempt -- all cs3 with a variety of nik filters -- graduated nd, skylight and tonal contrast.
[attachment=3969:attachment]
[attachment=3970:attachment]
[attachment=3971:attachment]
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Ok, I am off to Shanghai this afternoon, which means I leave office in less than two hours from this post. Lets see how good scans I will get! Erik, thanks for reply on size and MBs... much helpful.
I hope I will be able post on Monday, but if not within a few days from that.
Please keep on posting
Regards
Anders
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Please keep on posting
Regards
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=155125\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Anders,
Thanks for posting the raw files, here's my take on your monastery.
I am wondering if I can rent the ZD back in my area (SF Bay Area) to test it out.
[attachment=3975:attachment]
[attachment=3999:attachment]
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My apologies for the delay in posting of scans. We had some problems in transfer of one (and I wanted post all at once). Actually the problem one was from the Epson scan of the temple which I now from two corrupted versions have assembled to one.
The scans I now first post are 5161 x 4134 or 21MP or a little over 60MB each.
Please do not look at pixel level detail YET. I have a DVD on way by EMS with a high resolution drum scan of the sunrise at sea. That one is said to be around 120cmX140cm @ 300DPI 8bit RGB = 670.5MB. That is what my contact in Shanghai belives to be what can bring out maximum from a 6x7 slide.
I am happy that many have enjoyed this exercise. So have I. It has taught me alot. Perhaps I should be more dary at processing, something I should also learn from my favourite film Fuji Velvia 50. Yet... for landscape I also note that it is important for it to be enhanced in a way that even if bold still looks natural. In my eye it looks a bit odd making too warm sunlight hues out of a light that is not. For the sunrise at sea scene, the Velvia really was a strong exaggeration of the purple. Seeing in slide made me go wow! Seing on computer made me wonder what was going on... I guess my eye still have some training to do. That particular shot is from a special place near my parents place in Sweden. They usually go for walks there near each summer day when weather is nice, even now when they are in their eighties. I shot it on my last visit in July when I went there for first light on a half cloudy day, very early...
Some info from my man in Shanghai on the scanning...
- The differences in colors are from using different scanning systems. There has been no PP adjustments of colors after the scans. Any color changes are propably not the cause of difficulties of scanning Fuji Velvia 50.
- Scanners used:
Epson 4870.
Drum scanner is ‘Wangpin 8060 from Japan’
Please give me your comments and thoughts to what you see in comparison to the ZD raw and processed files (yet wait about pixels until my high resolution post in hopefully a few days).
Now let me attempt post the scans... Please bear in mind that all files I post are COPYRIGHTED and only posted for our learning of photographics.
Regards
Anders
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Epson 4870 - Scanned to Adobe RGB.
Converted to sRGB and reduced to 1200pixels width using CS3 for ease of posting.
No other PP.
Rgds
Anders
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Drum scanner ‘Wangpin 8060 from Japan’ - Scanned to sRGB.
Reduced to 1200pixels width using CS3 for ease of posting.
No other PP.
Oh +... all scans were TIF, but here and Epsons converted to JPG for ease of posting.
Now attempting yousendit link to original21MP TIF drum scans...
Rgds
Anders
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Ok, here is a link to original 21MP drum scans for those who would like to download (valid for certain time only).
http://download.yousendit.com/52C515AC165F9708 (http://download.yousendit.com/52C515AC165F9708)
Yet for resolution let us await my one high resolution drum scan... that will be interesting. But... of course there is more than resolution is it not? ... just looking at those drum scans...
But please post any comments so far...
Regards
Anders
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Very nice but for me WAY oversharpenend.
There are alot of halos.
Do they deliver it like that ?
Than my V700 scans look better to be honest (hope I don't piss anyone off now)
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Very nice but for me WAY oversharpenend.
There are alot of halos.
Do they deliver it like that ?
Than my V700 scans look better to be honest (hope I don't piss anyone off now)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158151\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
"Do they deliver them like that ?" - yes.
if your V700 does better than these drum scans, then I should A. send you my slides ( for hopeful low fee scanning ) or B. buy a V700 myself!
Slides are still magic to me..., something about the CHEAP fuji velvia 50 'sensor' yet... horses are for courses...
Regards
Anders
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Send me a few and I will do a scan for you no problem.
What I meant was that I find them incredible oversharpened.
I would expect that they delivered them without sharpening, that's the way I would want my scans.
The V700 does a very nice job to be honest, it struck me with delight, the scans are really good and for that price
I will try to upload something this afternoon
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In about 16 minutes on www.frankdoorhof.com/neg.zip will be online till tomorrow morning and only for this forum.
Color scan is without a holder but something I made myself because the official epson holder is very bad for MF.
The B&W scan is with the holder from betterscanning which works great.
There is no Photoshop done expect a slight sharpening.
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Send me a few and I will do a scan for you no problem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158165\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Frank,
I was joking actually , but your negs tells me to contact Epson in Hong Kong for a free demo (they are closer here, if fails will email you).
Your B&W is grainy (pleasant so), but your color neg throws me off! , anyone downloading resize it to pixels of the ZD and what do you see?? Any advantage to digital??? And that was 400 ISO negative film, not slide, and 645, not 6x7, and not on best drum scanner.
Ok, digital has advantage in DR. Or does it??? Look at my lake shot. Film is less DR but renders the dark and light transitions very nice and with less time in PP. Ok, that was Fuji Velvia 50, but with Fuji Sensia 100 there would be less contrast and perhaps more like the ZD.
Ability to control DR, tone and color? Can do with film also, after scanning. Ok, speed... digital hands down.
Comments????
Regards
Anders
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Well actually I have a shot that I did with both the 400VC and the Leaf and the Leaf CLEARLY shows more detail in the picture.
Not that the negative is soft or anything but the Leaf is just much more detailed.
On the other hand I was surprised with the output/input from the V700 which is relativly cheap.
DR is indeed another issue.
When I look at scans the darks are muddy compared to the leaf.
But the clipping of highlights is more pleasant for the eyes.
I think for color under ISO200 I will never even think about using film for anything else than hobby.
HOWEVER, with B&W and ISO400 and above I do like the film quality very very much.
I expected much less when I bought the film back to be honest.
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John & All,
John you are indeed right and correct. This post is teaching me lots and that was my purpose, that and to explore. All posted replies has made me broaden my mind in processing. Indeed the scans are helping me see what my 6x7s can go for... and hopefully to arrive at the right proportions of film and digital for my future. I wish to maintain both. That said, unlike for pros, for us amateures there is no way to balance cost, it simply costs... film would propably be cheaper for me (& simpler, since when medium format less frames shot and to scan than 35 ), yet... I wish stay and develop in digital also, and with high quality.
I much appreciate all replies to this thread. Let us see when I get that high resolution scan within a few days. But already now I am amazed by the shine and light from those drum scans. I am not convinced that it is easy to make files from ZD equal those from Fuji slides in my 7ii. Why should we? They are different medias and we should try use each to fullest. With film we can get to already predermined settings that are beautiful and need little tweak. With digital we have more possibilities, yet we have same with film if we also choose tweak them from our scans. The ZD do feel more photographic than my D200 was... I like and enjoy photographing both the ZD and 7ii .
A slight issue is the weight in my bag... yet.. the ZD system weighs no more than a pro DSLR system... I love my 7ii also...; an amazing box with big hole for film and to attach superb optics.... simpler than ZD in ways...
I am happy if others have and still enjoy this thread same as me .
Regards
Anders
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Just to add.
The files are scans from 6x4.5 negatives.
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I got the high resolution drumscan from ‘Wangpin 8060 from Japan’. It is a 17244 x 13642 pixel scan TIF file of 673MB. My conclusion: this is different media from the ZD and there is no winner. Per my eyes it takes more to clear beat 6x7, but I am yet to print this comparison. Not that the purpose was to show that digital or film beats the other... they are different medias that both are good from these cameras .
The ZD files were processed to TIF in Silkypix, thereafter up-sized in CS3 using bicubic smoother (enlargement) to same pixel width as the high resolution drumscan. TIF files were saved to JPG for posting. I used the 43mm on the 7ii and 35mm on the ZD, both at ISO 50.
Attached are to show framing of the ZD and 7ii.
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Reduced sized crops are attached, same full size crops can be found in these download links:
http://download.yousendit.com/A9AF9E0578F850B6 (http://download.yousendit.com/A9AF9E0578F850B6)
http://download.yousendit.com/34C98012520FB992 (http://download.yousendit.com/34C98012520FB992)
(valid for 500 downloads, 14 days)
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Smaller full size (100%) crops attached.
Film is simpler in getting to pleasing adjustments since it comes "preprogrammed" by Fuji. , yet many steps with lab, scanning to prints... and indeed large files! I honest like working with both, although staring at 6x7 Velvias is a "film magical" effect I am unable get from ZD... What of projectors, which media is better?
The cost of the high resolution drum scan was around 100 USD. Making 140 such about equals my ZD system in cost. I am waiting for reply from Epson in Hong Kong on if they can do sample scans. The V700 series Epson would be interesting to compare...
It has been a fun and interesting exercise with this thread. Much thanks to all who have posted.
What are your comments?? Much kind thanks for help
Regards
Anders
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It has been a fun and interesting exercise with this thread. Much thanks to all who have posted.
What are your comments?? Much kind thanks for help
Regards
Anders
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159366\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Anders,
Thanks for doing all this and sharing the images. The film scans have a real wonderful quality to them. While looking at these last 100% crops, I find that I'm really drawn to them and the ZD images that looked so great before look lifeless in comparison.
Regards,
Eric
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Hi
This has to be one of the best threads in months, great work!!!!!!!!
Denis