Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: jbaxendell on October 22, 2007, 11:27:14 am
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An Open Letter to Hasselblad Photographers and Partners.
There have been several announcements from Hasselblad over the past several weeks, and I wanted to take a moment to write to our photographers and partners to make sure each of you are aware of all of them.
The New H3DII DSLR Family
In the past few weeks, we have been busy around the world launching our 4th generation medium format DSLR, the new H3DII family. Following in the footsteps of the H1D, the H2D, and the H3D; the H3DII is the continuation of a product line that is one of the most successful in Hasselblad history. In addition, we have this week announced our newest camera, the H3DII-39MS a multi-shot version of the H3DII-39.
The H3DII has been available for delivery since the day it was announced. New features in the H3DII include a larger display, a new, more efficient "fan free" cooling technology, an integrated GPS option, and many more features and benefits that can be found on our Web site at www.hasselblad.com.
All of our "H System" cameras, whether film or digital, including the H3DII, continue to take advantage of our HC lens line, which independent testing has shown are the finest lenses Hasselblad has ever offered. This is important to us, since we recognize that many photographers have significant investments in HC lenses, and lenses are the most important and significant long-term investment a photographer makes.
Discontinuing the H2
We have made a decision to discontinue the H2 camera line. Starting with the H1 in 2002, both the H1 and H2 products have served us well, but demand simply no longer justifies the dedicated manufacturing line required for its production. The clear mandate we have received has been to continue to develop products and technologies to help create the best images possible, so we are transitioning resources and bandwidth from the H2 line to the H3DII. This will enable us to keep up with H3DII demand (which has been tremendous), and also help us respond to what the market is asking for – DSLR's.
By trimming our product portfolio of models that are no longer in significant demand, we can concentrate more of our resources on what photographers tell us they want – the ability to create great images. The best way to do this, as we have stated for years, is in an integrated system where all of the components, from the lens to the capture unit to the software, are designed as a system and are communicating and working together. In short, via an integrated DSLR. The great success of the H3D and H3DII families, as well as the huge success and product strategy of industry giants like Canon and Nikon (as well as products announced by Sinar, Leaf and Mamiya) all confirm that this is the way to go.
The launch of the H2F
The H2F is a greatly simplified "film only" version of the H2, and consequently does not require the same level of manufacturing, R&D, and support overhead the H2 does. It allows us to devote our resources to developing and supporting products that are in demand, while continuing to support film.
We have over half a century of history with film, and don't want to abandon film manufacturers or photographers. We feel an obligation to continue to offer a film camera as long as possible, and the H2F is a good compromise that allows us to continue to offer a film alternative, while directing most of our R&D, Manufacturing and Support efforts to the digital products that photographers tell us they want.
Future support for the H2 and HC/HCD lenses
At Hasselblad we continue to devote considerable resources to the support of camera systems that, in some cases, are over 40 years old. We pride ourselves on this, our legacy of support. You can be assured that this support will continue with our H1 and H2 installed base, for a minimum of 10 years from the date of purchase.
In addition, a decision to invest in HC/HCD lenses was a good one. Lenses are a critical and important investment, and we are proud that the HC lenses we produced in 2002 are just as useful and valuable in 2007 as they were the day they were produced. The image files captured through these lenses have improved every day since: with new lens perfecting software, with new natural color rendering, and with several other new advances in digital image perfection. This will continue.
Future Support of Hasselblad CF Digital Backs
We will continue to develop new products in the CF camera back line for Hasselblad photographers as well as photographers using other camera platforms, and will support the CF product line as we do our other product lines.
"Hasselblad Care Program" for H-system owners
To support our commitment to the owners of H-system camera products, on November 1, 2007, we are launching the "Hasselblad Care Program". This program is designed to include owners of all H-camera systems, including digital capture devices, regardless of manufacturer. The "Hasselblad Care Program" consists of a set of product enhancement options, all designed to support our photographers and increase the value of Hasselblad H-system products, including:
- Options for trading in current H-system products for a newer or more powerful model. This includes H1/H2 owners, owners of Hasselblad digital back solutions, as well as owners of a H1D or H2D cameras.
- Options for refurbishing a H-system product to full current factory standards
- Options for access to new H-system product information
Last of all, but most importantly, I want to thank you for your continued support and patronage. It is you who have made our great success possible, and we value your business. And, of course, thank you for helping make the H3D and now the H3DII two of the most successful products in Hasselblad's 50+ year history. I hope you find our new product offerings interesting and I trust you will take advantage of our "Hasselblad Care" program .
Best regards,
Christian Poulsen
CEO of Hasselblad.
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Reads like marketing noise to me. Not exactly an 'open letter'
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I wasn't really expecting them to write a letter that says, "We're doing this to force everyone to buy our new backs."
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H1 and H2 Owners can take a deep breath and relax, you guys have 10 years to enjoy and switch when necessary.
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Reads like marketing noise to me. Not exactly an 'open letter'
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147851\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What a useless and pathetic response to a company finally giving the straight dope! I guess this makes your life a little less fulfilling in that now you have less rumors to spread!
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Hmmm.... I like the sentence;
"Future Support of Hasselblad CF Digital Backs
We will continue to develop new products in the CF camera back line for Hasselblad photographers as well as photographers using other camera platforms, and will support the CF product line as we do our other product lines."
I believe not that long ago something similar was said about the H2. Anyway, for the moment it is good to hear Hasselblad is planning to further develop the CF.
Now, we CF users only need a camerabody that we can put our backs on
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What a useless and pathetic response to a company finally giving the straight dope!
Dope is what you would need to be smoking to think that. Let's keep this forum drug free!
(http://www.pizzamarketplace.com/coverimages/Drugs_in_the_workplace.jpg)
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I think this letter is a little disingenous. I mean, how hard would it really be to just keep manufacturing the old H2 at its current state of development? In other words, no new development, but produce the current model as it stands today. Not very.
Clearly, they want to incentivize people to move to their own complete MFD solution and not offer a product that would allow people to make their own choice of which MF digital back to use.
I am always suspicious of any communique from a corporation that justifies limiting consumer's choices with a paternalistic tone and a lame explanation that they are looking out for their customer's best interests. Sounds like the US phone company back in the seventies (at&t) that predicted dire consequences if poorly informed consumers were allowed to purchase any phone they wanted. I mean, what do those stupid consumers know anyway?
Dope is what you would need to be smoking to think that. Let's keep this forum drug free!
(http://www.pizzamarketplace.com/coverimages/Drugs_in_the_workplace.jpg)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147881\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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In short, via an integrated DSLR. The great success of the H3D and H3DII families, as well as the huge success and product strategy of industry giants like Canon and Nikon
Yes, except they can all still use interchangeable bits.
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Dope is what you would need to be smoking to think that. Let's keep this forum drug free!
Drugs - are not as bad as all that. The US has a serious industry built up.
Marijuana is good and is not a drug.
Hasselblad makes nice cameras.
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Marijuana is good and is not a drug.
It is a drug, but so is alcohol, tobacco, caffeine etc.
None of this has anything to do with the topic.
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Marijuana is good and is not a drug.
What the...? It most certainly is a drug.
In case you weren't kidding, see the definition of a drug:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drug (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/drug)
and wikipedia's article on marijuana:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana)
Who was talking about marijuana anyway?
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quote "In short, via an integrated DSLR. The great success of the H3D and H3DII families, as well as the huge success and product strategy of industry giants like Canon and Nikon"
Yes, except they can all still use interchangeable bits.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147894\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mahleu...which bits of nikon or canon are interchangeable apart form the lenses?
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quote "In short, via an integrated DSLR. The great success of the H3D and H3DII families, as well as the huge success and product strategy of industry giants like Canon and Nikon"
Mahleu...which bits of nikon or canon are interchangeable apart form the lenses?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147905\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yeah, I'd be interested to hear what I can take off my Canon and put on a Nikon????
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This is purely a "spin" letter. Makes me laugh to read how killing off the H2 will help protect image quality -- which is not exactly what he said if you parse each phrase, but that's the impression it is designed to leave. His problem, succinctly, is that what's good for Hasselblad is not necessarily good for its customers, and they're doing a tap dance to obfuscate that problem...
"Marijuana is not a drug..." That made me laugh, too. One thing I know for sure is that using marijuana makes you stupider than you would be otherwise; which may explain this posting...
The overall problem with all digital cameras is that they are extremely complex systems compared to film, and camera companies, whose expertise really fell in the area of precision clockwork mechanics, were not prepared to deal with the complications -- which is the reason that electronics companies like Sony and Panasonic and Nokia sell a lot of cameras.
Things shook out more quickly in the 35mm area -- if you remember the first awkward menus, the silly little LCD panels (when better ones were freely available), you know how quickly things have improved, driven by the ferocious competition. But now, that's all worked through. Within a year or so, Canon and Nikon will be doing what they used to do, which is provide fairly comparable top-end 35mm systems with well-thought-out menus, good ergonomics, etc.
The MF companies simply haven't come along as quickly. Mamiya is still peddling what amounts to a first-generation camera, for example, and Sinar/Rolli haven't even delivered their first generation effort. From here -- using the H3 as a benchmark -- things should quickly get better. I think MF functionality should be approaching the Canon/Nikon standard in five to seven years, because the MF manufacturers have the Canon/Nikon equipment to use as models, and will have smoothed out a lot of their own bumps.
JC
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Yeah, I'd be interested to hear what I can take off my Canon and put on a Nikon????
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not between manufacturers, but onto older models. Lenses, flashes, some battery grips, certain batteries, cable releases, angle finders etc
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I really wanted to TALK to them at the Photo Expo Show, Hasselblad was NOT at the SHOW.
Classy.
Ken
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I agree, these guys are full of it and I don't think they can be trusted to work in our best efforts for a moment. Hasselblad went from a primier flagship company to an also ran and are now only a bit player. Anyone who invests in their harware at this point needs to beware.
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Not between manufacturers, but onto older models. Lenses, flashes, some battery grips, certain batteries, cable releases, angle finders etc
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What pre-EOS gear can I use on an EOS camera?
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What pre-EOS gear can I use on an EOS camera?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147915\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
1 lens mount change vs Hasselblad's 3 in a few years?
And with an adapter all the fd lenses still work. I don't see Hassy providing any adapter to allow their older stuff to work with newer.
*and i'm dropping this now*
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I agree, these guys are full of it and I don't think they can be trusted to work in our best efforts for a moment. Hasselblad went from a primier flagship company to an also ran and are now only a bit player. Anyone who invests in their harware at this point needs to beware.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147913\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think calling hasselblad a bit player is a touch harsh..they are still in the medium formt market where they have always been, and still one of the top companies in that market.
Sure in the whole camera market they are small fry compared to canon, sony, etc but medium format always was a small market compared to 35mm
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1 lens mount change vs Hasselblad's 3 in a few years?
And with an adapter all the fd lenses still work. I don't see Hassy providing any adapter to allow their older stuff to work with newer.
*and i'm dropping this now*
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147918\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Check out the CF lens adapter!
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Hi
I am getting great results using a Aptus 22 on a Mamiya 645 AFDII. I still believe in an open system. Plus there 28 mm lens will work with Leaf, Sinar, Phase & there own ZD ( back/camera).
From now on Hasselblad is for Hasselblad users & it is there business how they run their company.
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Check out the CF lens adapter!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147921\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The H platform was developed as a modular system to accept all sorts of digital accessories or atleast was marketed this way. Corporate policy drives this bs not the interest of existing users. I have invested big time into H system and this Hasselblad bs just keeps getting worse everyday. Ok I can use my H1 for as long as it goes but this is a dead end route for me.
Damn shame Hasselblad damn shame.
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The H platform was developed as a modular system to accept all sorts of digital accessories or atleast was marketed this way. Corporate policy drives this bs not the interest of existing users. I have invested big time into H system and this Hasselblad bs just keeps getting worse everyday. Ok I can use my H1 for as long as it goes but this is a dead end route for me.
Damn shame Hasselblad damn shame.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Patrik, digital cameras has a short liftime. When I bought my H2/PhaseOne I knew (inside) this would happen. I fact It happened faster than I thought as my H2 is about two months old. When I heard that H was dicontinuing it I fel kind of... unconfortable. But I didn't buy the system thinking about the day I need to change. I bought it because it is the best camera on the market (IMO). I've never seen a Hasselblad break or fail. At least from the V system to the H2. My H2/P21 has never failed, not a single error or diminute failure. 100% stable. My 503 never failed, my 500cm never failed either.
The digital era is like this: they are all experimenting, trying, thinking designing their new products and we buy then, test them and then sell the when they are obsolete 2 years later. Obsolete for then because they have new things in mind, but for us, these cameras are usable for years. I
thing everybody should understand that we pay for what we get, and nor for what we will get. Hasselblad claims they take care of my camera it it happens anything for 7 years and I'm fine with that. And the rest, (like this letter from Christian Poulsen) I personally don't give s**t bacause the most of it is b******t.
But if you feel so bad about all this Hasselblad there's a way out actually. Make great photographs and stay away from this forums because a lot of what people talk here is everything but photography, thats what all those cameras are for...
I could turn off the internet and make photography with the cameras I have for years, without all this rumors especulations and announcements from our great companies. And then come back in 2035 and discover that my H2 was discontinued. What the f**K? My camera was discontinued. How the hell could I make photographs with it? Great deal...
Think about it. You've got the best Hasselblad; you can put any DB on it and it's film compatible. I'll get another body as soon as I can. Beleave me, this camera will be legendary. Opps. I'm making it legendary right now .
The best thing to do it you're to worried about your camera getting outdated is buying a dicontinued system. But hey! We've got it now!
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Samuel, I see your point of view but I think you are missing a vital point. Photographers are in competition with other photographers. If a new technology becomes available and is adopted by some photographers to give them a competitive advantage, then the rest may be under pressure to keep up or lose clients. An example of this is the first of the 22MP MFDBs, or the first MFDBs which could run untethered, or a 28mm lens, etc.
So you are right that everyone's H1 may continue to work for 10 years, but there is more to it. In only 5 years, clients may be expecting noise-free ISO 1600, or 5 fps, or one of many other advances, and people holding on to dead end cameras will be left out or will have to pay dearly to upgrade.
Even if the clients don't expect it, most photographers would like to have access to new developments to expand what their system is capable of.
So it is understandable that they become irate when their own camera maker deliberately kills the continuity of expensive and recently released cameras.
Btw, the Hass V cameras often lock up. Hass H cameras also lock up (software issue?). Hass H 50-110mm zoom lenses have failed for many. Hasselblad is far from failure free. Maybe you've been lucky.
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just the fact that the CEO came with such letter to justify their choices shows that some bad feed back have been heard...
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And with an adapter all the fd lenses still work.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147918\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
They do?!! I did not know this. What adapter is it, exactly, and where can I get one?! I would very much love to use my FD glass on an EOS.
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And with an adapter all the fd lenses still work.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147918\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
OK, Google is your friend--I googled the subject. I guess it depends on what defintion of "work" you're working with. The definition of of "work" I work with does not include losing 2/3d's of a stop and being tele-extended by 1.26x, nor does it include stop-down metering or losing infinity focus.
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I really wanted to TALK to them at the Photo Expo Show, Hasselblad was NOT at the SHOW.
Classy.
Ken
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147912\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I got invited by Hasselblad during Photo Expo Show, however it was not at Photo Expo Show it was here:
Dear Natasa,
The main events will take place at Splashlight Studios on Friday,
October 19th from 10:00am-5:00pm. There will be limited access to the studio
on Thursday, October 18th)
On October 19th, Hasselblad will host an open studio as well as a
Victor by Hasselblad table. You are invited to come and see all the new
Hasselblad products at this time as well as learn about Hasselblad's new
corporate magazine 'Victor by Hasselblad".
In the orginal email invitation there was a reference to a porfolio
review. Unfortuantley due to the volume of requests Hasselblad will not
be able to conduct these reviews. Too many requests and not enough
resources.. We do however encourage you to stop by the studio on October
19th to learn about all the new and exciting news from Hasselblad.
Event Venue:
Splashlight Studios
529-535 West 35th Street
New York, NY 10001
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They do?!! I did not know this. What adapter is it, exactly, and where can I get one?! I would very much love to use my FD glass on an EOS.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147947\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi!
The adapters I've seen won't make you happy. Normally they incorporate a crappy lens that completely ruins the fine IQ of your FD50 1.2L (or any other FD lens). Longer lenses are less affected but still unusable.
I have not heard about decent currently produced FD-EOS -adapters.
Cheers,
J
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Could it be that with the demise of the H2 and introduction of the F that the H2 will become hot on the used market--upping the prices of body and accessories a la Contax 645...
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""film only" version of the H2, and consequently does not require the same level of manufacturing, R&D, and support overhead the H2 does."[
Is it really harder to make a product you already make than to go to the trouble cripling it most likely in software? What R&D? Its been Done ages ago! And Support? If you dont have one of their backs they blame your problem on your back! Does Mr. Poulsen really think anybody buys this shit? I hope Hasselblad falls flat on their face!!!! Their product is a distant 3rd or 4th behind Phase and Leaf. I know three people that first bought Hasselblad backs only to dump them for Phase. Problem is their camera is the best choice for many. A Leaf rep told me 1.5 years ago that 85% of their new backs were for the H mount!!! Its a shame Sinar is dropping the ball. If their past performance in the US is any indication. I dont have high hopes for the HY6. No marketing muscle at all. I tried twice to get a demo on their backs from a rep, no dice. Leaf is wise to get on board with the HY6, but I lost faith in them with many shoddy backs last few years, but perhaps they have worked out the bugs. Which leaves Phase. Still the best? Yes, but the idea of buying a back for a dead camera excites no one, not even diehard Contax guys. If only the Canon files were better.....
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Its a shame Sinar is dropping the ball. If their past performance in the US is any indication. I dont have high hopes for the HY6. No marketing muscle at all.
I don't know what past performance you are referring to but you should really take a close look at the Sinarbacks. With excellent image quality, the flexibility of the adapter system, speed, built-in solid state memory, compactness and clearer LCDs, I believe they are the best backs on the market.
In this day and age of overnight couriers, I don't see why living next door to a dealer is so important to some. I live in a country with no MFDB dealers at all, so I simply went for the best technology and rely on overnight courier service between here and Germany if anything goes wrong.
Have you had a bad experience with SinarBron, for example?
The 5yr hot swap warranty of the Hy6 should get your attention. Who else is offering that?
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Dear Jeff,
In which way is Sinar dropping the ball? Could you emphasize and give me details?
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
Its a shame Sinar is dropping the ball. If their past performance in the US is any indication. I dont have high hopes for the HY6.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148009\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I guess this is officially the "bash Hassleblad" thread, now. Here are my 7 top reasons for buying Hasslebad (except I didn't):
1. It says Hasselblad. Your clients like that because they cannot afford it.
2. There are Hasselblads, leggy models with long hair, and wind machines at every major photo event. This is why your brother in law wants a Hasselblad.
3. You cannot really afford it either so you want it.
4. It's all made by, excuse me, labeled Hassleblad. You know who to call when it doesn't work.
5. It's the only functional MF solution your dealer can sell you these days if you need high flash sync.
6. It actually works when you get it. And mostly works when you have it.
7. Even if you hate it when you get it, there are still reasons 1 and 2 and 4 and 5 and 6 that make you keep it.
Oh, and why don't I have a Hasselblad ? Well I guess 1, 2 and 3 didn't quite work for me for some reason. Bad marketing
Edmund
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Top 7 reasons to think twice before you hit the "post" button:
1) Your ego exceeds your wit and your image can't afford it.
2) It takes time away from dreaming of leggy models with long hair that you can't afford.
3) You can't afford someone seeing through your posing–and you're not a leggy model.
4) You are overly impressed with your own label.
5) You may have mockery confused with insight.
6) You know that humerus is a bone in your arm, but still have humorous confused with contemptuous.
7) You still don't get it and you hate the fact that others do.
Oh, and why doesn't everyone recognize your comedic genius? Reasons 1 through 7, better work on your marketing.
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You talking 'bout me
1) Your ego exceeds your wit and your image can't afford it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148055\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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You make a really good sparring partner ! See, we're a live comedy team now ! D'you think we can ask for a fee ?
All together now:
We love Hassy coz' it's flashy -
Edmund
Top 7 reasons to think twice before you hit the "post" button:
1) Your ego exceeds your wit and your image can't afford it.
2) It takes time away from dreaming of leggy models with long hair that you can't afford.
3) You can't afford someone seeing through your posing–and you're not a leggy model.
4) You are overly impressed with your own label.
5) You may have mockery confused with insight.
6) You know that humerus is a bone in your arm, but still have humorous confused with contemptuous.
7) You still don't get it and you hate the fact that others do.
Oh, and why doesn't everyone recognize your comedic genius? Reasons 1 through 7, better work on your marketing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148055\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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So you are right that everyone's H1 may continue to work for 10 years, but there is more to it. In only 5 years, clients may be expecting noise-free ISO 1600, or 5 fps, or one of many other advances, and people holding on to dead end cameras will be left out or will have to pay dearly to upgrade.
Even if the clients don't expect it, most photographers would like to have access to new developments to expand what their system is capable of.
So it is understandable that they become irate when their own camera maker deliberately kills the continuity of expensive and recently released cameras.
Btw, the Hass V cameras often lock up. Hass H cameras also lock up (software issue?). Hass H 50-110mm zoom lenses have failed for many. Hasselblad is far from failure free. Maybe you've been lucky.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Very well said. But the H1 works very well. I don't have any problems with mirror slap. My lenses have held together and are very very good.
Only reason for discontinuity of H2 is PhaseOne. The manufacturing cost bs is just bs, why not just raise the price instead of pissing people off?
PhaseOne in the eyes of Poulsen is getting a free ride and that's why the H2 is history. PhaseOne is too big of a threat to Hasselblad. Things will change when average digital back prices fall under USD 10.000 because then again it may prove to be more profitable to manufacture camera bodies than digital backs. But who knows?
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5. It's the only functional MF solution your dealer can sell you these days if you need high flash sync.
Except the Rollei 6008 which has an even faster flash sync, and the Hy6 which is actually on the market now!
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I know three people that first bought Hasselblad backs only to dump them for Phase.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148009\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just bought a H3D yesterday. I will see, if I get along with it.
The AFD was no way because of the bad finder (even with the MF-screen).
The H3D is the only way to get a 28mm for me.
Why did the three people mentioned above sell their Hasselblads backs? When was this?Which models did they drop to replace it by which Phase product? I hear a lot of good things on the older Imacon 22MP backs in this forum. There is at least one user who likes his CF39 back a lot.
Bernd
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I just bought a H3D yesterday. I will see, if I get along with it.
The AFD was no way because of the bad finder (even with the MF-screen).
The H3D is the only way to get a 28mm for me.
Why did the three people mentioned above sell their Hasselblads backs? When was this?Which models did they drop to replace it by which Phase product? I hear a lot of good things on the older Imacon 22MP backs in this forum. There is at least one user who likes his CF39 back a lot.
Bernd
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148121\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Bernd:
You have to take those kinds of posts with a grain of salt. I believe the poster is a Phase One user and is welcome to his opinion. I am actually getting calls from Phase One users since the announcement of the H3DII who are trying to sell their P+ backs to get into the H3DII. So, it's a 2 way street.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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Except the Rollei 6008 which has an even faster flash sync, and the Hy6 which is actually on the market now!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148097\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I can understand why those who bought H series cameras and use non-Hasselblad backs on them would be teed off over Hasselblad's decision to discontinue the H2 and make new lenses(or at least some of them) non-functional except with an H3D, but I really don't understand why someone who does not even own an H series camera would spend so much time weighing in about Mr. Poulsen's letter, treating it as an opening for the insertion of more Sinar/Hy6 advertising copy. Moreover, how many days have you actually spent working with an H3D in the field?
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but I really don't understand why someone who does not even own an H series camera would spend so much time weighing in about Mr. Poulsen's letter, ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148129\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you want to hear only the opinions of Hass users, then there should be a Hass forum somewhere.
As you can see from the responses, most people aren't buying the Hasselblad lies.
I don't think such marketing materials should have been copied and pasted into this forum in the first place, but once posted we are all entitled to post our comments.
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Bernd:
You have to take those kinds of posts with a grain of salt. I believe the poster is a Phase One user and is welcome to his opinion. I am actually getting calls from Phase One users since the announcement of the H3DII who are trying to sell their P+ backs to get into the H3DII. So, it's a 2 way street.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148127\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanx for the encouragement! Having paid twentysomethingthousand dollars makes you worry sometimes, especially as long as I don´t have the thing in my hands.
Bernd
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If you want to hear only the opinions of Hass users, then there should be a Hass forum somewhere.
As you can see from the responses, most people aren't buying the Hasselblad lies.
I don't think such marketing materials should have been copied and pasted into this forum in the first place, but once posted we are all entitled to post our comments.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148130\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Still no answer as to how many days you have actually spent working with an H3D in the field? Hmmm? Of course, you don't own a Hy6 either, and that hasn't gotten in the way of you treating it like the Messiah for over a year now.
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I don't think such marketing materials should have been copied and pasted into this forum in the first place, but once posted we are all entitled to post our comments.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148130\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Graham
As a former user (V-series) I was sent the text in an email from Hasselblad. It struck me that it might be of interest to a wider audience. It appears I was right.
Regards
John
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hcubell,
I don't get it: Graham has simply answered to a claim from Edmund, saying that the Hasselblad was the ONLY functional MF solution when you need high sync.
This is simply not true and as such can (should) be corrected without getting the remark of it being advertising. Don't you agree with this?
There is further no bashing or disrespect or whatsoever to this now famous "letter".
Best regards,
Thierry
..., but I really don't understand why someone who does not even own an H series camera would spend so much time weighing in about Mr. Poulsen's letter, treating it as an opening for the insertion of more Sinar/Hy6 advertising copy. Moreover, how many days have you actually spent working with an H3D in the field?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148129\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I'm not sure if anyone has seen one, but Fuji has a GX645 AF. It looks exactly like an H2, but
just has a darker finish.
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
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Hi Chris,
and PO is going to attach their backs and sell it in the US or in the rest of the world, now that the H2D is discontinued?
Is that what you mean with this?
Best regards,
Thierry
I'm not sure if anyone has seen one, but Fuji has a GX645 AF. It looks exactly like an H2, but
just has a darker finish.
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148141\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I'm not sure if anyone has seen one, but Fuji has a GX645 AF. It looks exactly like an H2, but
just has a darker finish.
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148141\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
chris, how does the gx645 af look like with the different colored phase back on it? can you post a pic?
dark grey and black is a lot better looking than the cheap looking h1.
paul
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That is an option I have not heard that much. The Fuji is supposed to be the same camera as the H.
Is that thing easy to buy? I have never seen any for sale (besides once or so). Isn't it only sold in a very limited region? (that could change ofcourse)
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That is an option I have not heard that much. The Fuji is supposed to be the same camera as the H.
Is that thing easy to buy? I have never seen any for sale (besides once or so). Isn't it only sold in a very limited region? (that could change ofcourse)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148150\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think fuji has contracted the japanese dealers in such a way that they are forebidden to sell a gx645 outside japan.
You´d have to travel there to get one.
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I think fuji has contracted the japanese dealers in such a way that they are forebidden to sell a gx645 outside japan.
You´d have to travel there to get one.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148154\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have heard that they were only available in certain regions, but I have seen some used ones pop up.
I'm currently on the road, but I'll see what I can do to post a pic.
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
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I have heard that they were only available in certain regions, but I have seen some used ones pop up.
I'm currently on the road, but I'll see what I can do to post a pic.
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
Capture Integration
www.captureintegration.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148160\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When the dollar was strong they were readily available via grey market channels
The original deal when Fuji and Hasselblad developed the H camera was that Fuji could not sell their version in the US for X number of years. I believe that time frame expired because Fuji explored whether to import it into the US a few years ago.
I don't know the current level of cooperation between Fuji and Hasselblad and have heard their relationship is a bit strained to the point there was rumors of litigation. Fuji was promised a certain number of film back sales which never materialized because of the acceleration of digital back sales.
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That is an option I have not heard that much. The Fuji is supposed to be the same camera as the H.
Is that thing easy to buy? I have never seen any for sale (besides once or so). Isn't it only sold in a very limited region? (that could change ofcourse)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148150\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The more pertinent issue (at least for USA customers) is that servicing for your camera would have to be done in Japan by Fuji.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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When the dollar was strong they were readily available via grey market channels
The original deal when Fuji and Hasselblad developed the H camera was that Fuji could not sell their version in the US for X number of years. I believe that time frame expired because Fuji explored whether to import it into the US a few years ago.
I don't know the current level of cooperation between Fuji and Hasselblad and have heard their relationship is a bit strained to the point there was rumors of litigation. Fuji was promised a certain number of film back sales which never materialized because of the acceleration of digital back sales.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148162\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Oh Boy! More juicy gossip. Gossip and rumors, they're so educational... and fun! Don't hold back Matt. Since you have inside knowledge of the "originall deal", tell us more! We're all anxious to hear the juicy details. We'd love to know what the X number of years is. And "H" owners can relax, now that you believe Fuji can start selling cameras outside of Japan. Whew! What a relief.
Strained relationships? Litigation rumors? Nice stuff! Maybe Britney Spears can be the spokesmodel when the Fuji camera is launched in the U.S. (between rehab visits of course).
Introduction, in the past year, of new products like the H3D, H3DII, H2F and infamous 28mm only give the illusion of a high level of cooperation. Come on, I bet your in touch with their divorce lawyers. Tell us please!
We already know that the price of film backs doubled because of low demand and production volume. We want more rumors!
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Btw, the Hass V cameras often lock up. Hass H cameras also lock up (software issue?). Hass H 50-110mm zoom lenses have failed for many. Hasselblad is far from failure free. Maybe you've been lucky.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Graham,
Maybe you could team up with Matt and spread more rumors about how unreliable all of the Hasselblads have been over the last 50 years (V, H, all of it).
Sure, mechanical components will fail over time. Sure, firmware upgrades to fix bugs are common for electronic components. And sure, the internet is a huge amplifier and magnifying glass for anyone with a problem (people that are happy and satisfied tend not to post messages nearly as much as those that have a problem). And yes, no product is ever failure free. But the joy of spreading rumors is seldom equaled.
Though it will be a bit of a disappointment to see you join in this behavior, as I've enjoyed the thoughtful nature of so many of your posts–it is your right to do so.
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Oh Boy! More juicy gossip. Gossip and rumors, they're so educational... and fun! Don't hold back Matt. Since you have inside knowledge of the "originall deal", tell us more! We're all anxious to hear the juicy details. We'd love to know what the X number of years is. And "H" owners can relax, now that you believe Fuji can start selling cameras outside of Japan. Whew! What a relief.
Strained relationships? Litigation rumors? Nice stuff! Maybe Britney Spears can be the spokesmodel when the Fuji camera is launched in the U.S. (between rehab visits of course).
Introduction, in the past year, of new products like the H3D, H3DII, H2F and infamous 28mm only give the illusion of a high level of cooperation. Come on, I bet your in touch with their divorce lawyers. Tell us please!
We already know that the price of film backs doubled because of low demand and production volume. We want more rumors!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148171\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Tech,
I was the manager of Helix Camera & Video's pro department for 10 years. We used to bring the Fuji version of the H camera in grey market when the US dollar was much higher against the Yen. At the time Fuji could not legally import the H camera into the country due to their agreement with Hasselblad. 2 years ago there was talk from Fuji reps that the Fuji version were going to be available from Fuji USA and then it went no further.
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I am so happy that for once I have nothing to say. What a relief.
Andre
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Tech,
I was the manager of Helix Camera & Video's pro department for 10 years. We used to bring the Fuji version of the H camera in grey market when the US dollar was much higher against the Yen. At the time Fuji could not legally import the H camera into the country due to their agreement with Hasselblad. 2 years ago there was talk from Fuji reps that the Fuji version were going to be available from Fuji USA and then it went no further.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148179\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Maybe you can fill people in on where to get service on grey market Fuji product. Some may be interested in pursuing that route.
Also, it seems that reps really like to talk. A lot of rumors seem to start with reps and spread from there to the internet. Just a casual observation on my part.
Is it possible that Hasselblad is the company that controls how the "H" system is sold? If you look at that "original deal" again, isn't it Hasselblad that contracted with Teleca Systems in Sweden for the electronics, camera software and communications interface, Minolta for the auto-focus system and Fuji for the optical components? Is it possible that they have a good deal more control than some people might assume? What degree of control does Fuji have? I'm curious.
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Tech,
I was the manager of Helix Camera & Video's pro department for 10 years. We used to bring the Fuji version of the H camera in grey market when the US dollar was much higher against the Yen. At the time Fuji could not legally import the H camera into the country due to their agreement with Hasselblad. 2 years ago there was talk from Fuji reps that the Fuji version were going to be available from Fuji USA and then it went no further.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148179\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Are Fuji going to have an own-branded H3DII in Japan ?
Which digital MF solution are Fuji selling at the moment in Japan ?
Edmund
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This is the camera for those interested:
(http://ammo.jp/monthly/0302/img0302/nrj1000_h600.jpg)
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Maybe you can fill people in on where to get service on grey market Fuji product. Some may be interested in pursuing that route.
Also, it seems that reps really like to talk. A lot of rumors seem to start with reps and spread from there to the internet. Just a casual observation on my part.
Is it possible that Hasselblad is the company that controls how the "H" system is sold? If you look at that "original deal" again, isn't it Hasselblad that contracted with Teleca Systems in Sweden for the electronics, camera software and communications interface, Minolta for the auto-focus system and Fuji for the optical components? Is it possible that they have a good deal more control than some people might assume? What degree of control does Fuji have? I'm curious.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148187\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
At the time Helix provided a 2 year warranty thru the store. We contracted with a local repair service and they were repaired locally for some services and sent back to Japan for others. You could not just walk it in to your local Hasselblad repair facility and expect them to take care of it.
In the original deal Fuji provided the optics and the film back. Minolta licensed the Auto focus technology. The partnership allowed Fuji to market the camera everywhere in the world other than Europe and the US.
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PhaseOne in the eyes of Poulsen is getting a free ride and that's why the H2 is history. PhaseOne is too big of a threat to Hasselblad.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148091\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Indeed. A Phase one back and an updated Contax body would have been devastating to Hassy. The biggest beneficiary of the Phase One/Contax deal not going through was Hassy. Hassy needs to cripple Phase One before they find another platform. No more H2's is one way to reduce demand for the P1 product.
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"TechTalk", would you please stop bashing individual people here? You are not adding anything to the discussion by behaving like this. If you have critical remarks, please do come with some factual evidence instead. Or let it go by.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148178\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I believe he tries in his posts to be very objective and fair. He simply objects to rants or unfounded opinions masquerading as factual statements, which is something we should all appreciate, and he is trying to set the record straight. Do you see him running down Sinar generally or the Hy6? Do you seem him doing that with Phase? Does he ascribe the complete lack of commercial success of Rollei products in the US to the cultural inferiority of Americans? I haven't. His modus operandi here is not negative about other companies' products. Let's be clear. There are many here who simply do not want to hear positive(or even simple factual) reports about Hasselblad and its products, and anyone who questions them or calls them out on their inaccurate statements gets in the way of their free for all.
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"TechTalk", would you please stop bashing individual people here? You are not adding anything to the discussion by behaving like this. If you have critical remarks, please do come with some factual evidence instead. Or let it go by.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148178\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When misinformation of a technical nature is posted, then it is relatively easy to post a factual response to correct it.
On the other hand, when rumor, speculation or gossip is being presented–a challenge to the poster's claims is often just that–a challenge to the poster to back up their claims. Public figures (and companies) that are attacked this way, often learn how time consuming and difficult it can be to disprove a rumor that isn't true. It takes little effort or time to start a rumor, then they take on a life of their own and the internet simply adds to their amplification and perceived magnitude.
In the case of sheer mockery or cynicism, it might sometimes be useful to turn the mirror around. I appreciate that eronald has the good grace and humor to have accepted my response to his post as intended.
I only wish that technolgy and facts were the sole source of debate and discussion on boards such as this, but sadly that is not the case. Emotions seem to run high at times. Sorry if you were put off by any replies that I have posted, but the tone of the reply is often dictated by the nature of the post being responded to.
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In the case of sheer mockery or cynicism, it might sometimes be useful to turn the mirror around. I appreciate that eronald has the good grace and humor to have accepted my response to his post as intended.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148200\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
All in a good day's fun
Anyway, I've tried the Hassy's, they seem to work as advertised, I'm impressed by the improvements in the latest versions, and I don't think anyone can object to my saying that they are heavily marketed with leggy models and wind machines
My own refusal to buy H stems from my own tests and has something to do with the lens "look" and finder "feel". Also, the Raw images from H backs are locked into a proprietary processing pipleline which negates my special skills with color profiles. Brand S/L also seems to have a nice design but it hasn't yet has much real-life testing while Hassy are now through to the 4th iteration (H1, H2, H3D, H3DII) and have clearly learnt much while revving their product.
Somebody here should notice that the Alpa, which is definitely low-tech, is getting a very good rep as a tool for making images - features and marketing aren't the only way forward.
Edmund
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hcubell,
I don't get it: Graham has simply answered to a claim from Edmund, saying that the Hasselblad was the ONLY functional MF solution when you need high sync.
This is simply not true and as such can (should) be corrected without getting the remark of it being advertising. Don't you agree with this?
There is further no bashing or disrespect or whatsoever to this now famous "letter".
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148138\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thierry, I would never speak for others, but in all candor, reading this Forum regularly over the past year feels to me like I'm living in the middle of an uniterrupted advertising campaign for the Hy6, run on a collective basis by three individuals. Fine, you can can do that, nobody is forcing me to read it. OTOH, Foto-Z has seemingly never passed up an opportunity to run down Hasselblad and its latest products, and yet he has apparently never even used them. You may note that exactly nine minutes elapsed between the first post in this thread with the Poulsen letter and Foto-Z's post about it being marketing bs.
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good pace around here...
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No more H2's is one way to reduce demand for the P1 product.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148194\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is absolutely true. It is also true that it allows Hasselblad to focus their production capacity on the integrated sytems that provide the best return and in their view the best long term strategy for survival in a very difficult market. Integration is a business decision and strategy that to a lesser degree is also being pursued by Sinar, Leaf, Mamiya and Rollei.
Any time spent with executives from Hasselblad will make it very clear that their concern for the future is not other competitors in the medium-format market, but Canon and Nikon. They feel that future improvements from these two companies are a threat to the medium-format format market as a whole. They don't see a future in trying to maintain the quality gap necessary to survive, with a mix and match approach competing against integrated systems from Canon and Nikon. In time, we'll know if their judgement is correct or not.
In addition, for the past several years, there has been insufficient volume in the sales of medium-format cameras for any company to be profitable in that market. All of the manufacturers have had severe financial problems and only a few have managed to survive. Integration of cameras and backs have returned Hasselblad to profitability, for the past few years, and are the only reason that they still exist.
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I only wish that technolgy and facts were the sole source of debate and discussion on boards such as this, but sadly that is not the case.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148200\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It's all Al Gores fault for inventing this darn internet in the first place!!
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All in a good day's fun
Anyway, I've tried the Hassy's, they seem to work as advertised, I'm impressed by the improvements in the latest versions, and I don't think anyone can object to my saying that they are heavily marketed with leggy models and wind machines
My own refusal to buy H stems from my own tests and has something to do with the lens "look" and finder "feel". Also, the Raw images from H backs are locked into a proprietary processing pipleline which negates my special skills with color profiles. Brand S/L also seems to have a nice design but it hasn't yet has much real-life testing while Hassy are now through to the 4th iteration (H1, H2, H3D, H3DII) and have clearly learnt much while revving their product.
Somebody here should notice that the Alpa, which is definitely low-tech, is getting a very good rep as a tool for making images - features and marketing aren't the only way forward.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148203\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I knew you were a good sport and we both seem to like leggy models.
One thing regarding the Hasselblad software. You can do custom profiles. Just add it to the ICC or colorsync library and choose it as the input profile in the FlexColor "setup" window.
Equipment choices are based on individual preferences and I'm sure that you'll enjoy yours.
Best Wishes.
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This is absolutely true. It is also true that it allows Hasselblad to focus their production capacity on the integrated sytems that provide the best return and in their view the best long term strategy for survival in a very difficult market. Integration is a business decision and strategy that to a lesser degree is also being pursued by Sinar, Leaf, Mamiya and Rollei.
Any time spent with executives from Hasselblad will make it very clear that their concern for the future is not other competitors in the medium-format market, but Canon and Nikon. They feel that future improvements from these two companies are a threat to the medium-format format market as a whole. They don't see a future in trying to maintain the quality gap necessary to survive, with a mix and match approach competing against integrated systems from Canon and Nikon. In time, we'll know if their judgement is correct or not.
In addition, for the past several years, there has been insufficient volume in the sales of medium-format cameras for any company to be profitable in that market. All of the manufacturers have had severe financial problems and only a few have managed to survive. Integration of cameras and backs have returned Hasselblad to
profitability, for the past few years, and are the only reason that they still exist.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148211\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well in my opinion Hasselblad and others are going the right way to frightening off a lot of would-be purchasers of MFDB systems. I for one am not going to buy into such a volatile market. I'd rather get a FF Nikon or Canon. When you buy a camera that costs over twenty grand and becomes a dead end, it kind of frightens me somewhat.
I think I'll stick to my 10x8 for now.
Pete
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Any time spent with executives from Hasselblad will make it very clear that their concern for the future is not other competitors in the medium-format market, but Canon and Nikon. They feel that future improvements from these two companies are a threat to the medium-format format market as a whole. They don't see a future in trying to maintain the quality gap necessary to survive, with a mix and match approach competing against integrated systems from Canon and Nikon. In time, we'll know if their judgement is correct or not.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148211\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I guess you are talking about Canon and Nikon 35mm equipment ? Because if Canon or Nikon should decide to go into MF the consequences for Hasselblad would be quick and ugly ...In fact one can say that the whole company is built on the bet that Canon or Nikon won't find it profitable to enter this niche market. Howver Fiat did own Ferrari which makes slightly faster and more expensive cars; VW seem to own Lamborghini which also cater to those who want to drive faster than Beetles ...
Edmund
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I guess you are talking about Canon and Nikon 35mm equipment ? Because if Canon or Nikon should decide to go into MF the consequences for Hasselblad would be quick and ugly ...In fact one can say that the whole company is built on the bet that Canon or Nikon won't find it profitable to enter this niche market. Howver Fiat did own Ferrari which makes slightly faster and more expensive cars; VW seem to own Lamborghini which also cater to those who want to drive faster than Beetles ...
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148219\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Your guess is right. I should have been more clear about that. Yes, I was refering to Canon and Nikon 35mm DSLR systems that will continue to evolve and improve at a rapid rate.
Frankly, I think that it is the rapid pace of improvements from Nikon and Canon, more than any other factor, that has fueled Hasselblad's desire to put as much of their energy and resources behind their integrated systems as possible.
Hasselblad is presently getting a lot of heat for putting pressure on users to decide if there is future for them to stay in the Hasselblad system or switch. I think it is obvious that they are pushing people to make a choice between integrated or mix and match systems and to make that decision soon. For their own future survival, Hasselblad has already made that decision and I think they believe that too much delay in doing so would have far worse consequences in the future.
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monopoly doesn't sound good for any consumer...
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Hi
I just received this letter via email. It could have been that one of our photographs is featured in the HIGH 5 section of the current Victor magazine or that I attend Hasselblad functions here in Sydney. I feel we have to be aware of what is happening in MFD. At the launch last friday in sydney of the H3DII the speaker said that world wide sales of MFD is 9000. Back in 1995 WW sales of MF was 90,000. Also since the release of the H3D the sales of the H2 have fallen in the past year & that is why they are dropping it out of there line. i asked about the H2F & that with third party backs communication such as count down would be no longer on the display. There new software looks impressive & is similar to LR & Aperture. With so few sales WW I can understand there direction. Then again I do not use the H2 with a third party back & I can understand the frustration of photographers that do.
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monopoly doesn't sound good for any consumer...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Going out of business doesn't sound very good either.
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monopoly doesn't sound good for any consumer...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Which is the monopoly? Canon, Hasselblad or Nikon?
They are each producing a product line of integrated digital camera systems that do not interchange with the others.
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Also since the release of the H3D the sales of the H2 have fallen in the past year & that is why they are dropping it out of there line. i
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The decline in H2 sales is very much the consequence of the lack of clarity of Hassy as far as the future of the H2 was concerned.
IMHO, there is no doubt that their intention was to kill the H2 from day one. They acted in such a way as to make people stop buying the H2, and are now using sales decline as a justification for their action.
This being said, I have no problem with Hassy deciding to concentrate on a closed system, it is indeed their prerogative. I would have preferred a more clear cut communication from them, instead of the current lukewarm approach.
Overall, I feel that Hassy products are currently still overpriced, like the other MFDB. I am also not sure about their upgrade policy. How much would I have to pay to migrate a H3D39 to an hypothetical H4D55?
Cheers,
Bernard
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I guess you are talking about Canon and Nikon 35mm equipment ? Because if Canon or Nikon should decide to go into MF the consequences for Hasselblad would be quick and ugly ...In fact one can say that the whole company is built on the bet that Canon or Nikon won't find it profitable to enter this niche market. Howver Fiat did own Ferrari which makes slightly faster and more expensive cars; VW seem to own Lamborghini which also cater to those who want to drive faster than Beetles ...
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148219\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think that you and TechTalk have raised a major issue about the future of DMF cameras and backs. I am circling the DMF world saving my money and getting advice about which DMF camera/back (integrated or not) to purchase. For the most part, this forum has been very useful and I've received lots of thoughtful advice from the photographers here. But I too worry about Canon or Nikon entering the MF world. The next iteration of Canon FF will be better than the last one. Likely, Nikon's future cameras (D4 and so on) will also increase their megapixels and image quality. Hopefully this will stimulate the DMF manufacturers to produce even better cameras and backs. We have seen the demise of several MF camera companies in the past 10 years and I would not like to see more go to their funerals. I understand that the energies of capitalism and competition can lead to this. Still, I hope that Phase, Leaf, Sinar, Mamiya and Hasselblad are around five years (or more) from now. Competition is good for us all.
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There was an interesting experiment on, IIRC, the photodo web site, where they took top quality large format, medium format, and 35mm lenses, and determined what image quality each could produce at equal depth of field. The result (which I believe also matches the mathematics) was that all three produced the same resolution. (If you think about it, a given size aperture will produce the same depth of field, no matter what the focal length.)
I expect that a FF 35mm camera with a 39 MP sensor with 14- or 16-bit conversion, using high-quality lenses (I recall that they used a Leice lens), would produce an image that is the equal of a medium format camera with a 39 MP back.
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There was an interesting experiment on, IIRC, the photodo web site, where they took top quality large format, medium format, and 35mm lenses, and determined what image quality each could produce at equal depth of field. The result (which I believe also matches the mathematics) was that all three produced the same resolution. (If you think about it, a given size aperture will produce the same depth of field, no matter what the focal length.)
I expect that a FF 35mm camera with a 39 MP sensor with 14- or 16-bit conversion, using high-quality lenses (I recall that they used a Leice lens), would produce an image that is the equal of a medium format camera with a 39 MP back.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148257\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Equal in terms of what? Resolution? O.K. Dynamic Range? Not very likely. Scaleablity would also suffer in a smaller format for the same reason. Too little information collected per pixel.
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There was an interesting experiment on, IIRC, the photodo web site, where they took top quality large format, medium format, and 35mm lenses, and determined what image quality each could produce at equal depth of field. The result (which I believe also matches the mathematics) was that all three produced the same resolution. (If you think about it, a given size aperture will produce the same depth of field, no matter what the focal length.)
I expect that a FF 35mm camera with a 39 MP sensor with 14- or 16-bit conversion, using high-quality lenses (I recall that they used a Leice lens), would produce an image that is the equal of a medium format camera with a 39 MP back.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148257\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hmmm....an interesting possibility....but the sensor sizes in MF and FF are different with the area of the MF sensors on average, being larger than that of a 35 mm FF. Shouldn't that mean that the image quality would be different as would the IQ of any enlargement from a MF vs 35 mm FF? Perhaps Edmund, Foto-Z, TechTalk and the others can comment please? Thanks.
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Equal in terms of what? Resolution? O.K. Dynamic Range? Not very likely. Scaleablity would also suffer in a smaller format for the same reason. Too little information collected per pixel.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148265\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In terms of the resolution presented to the image plane by the lens.
Dynamic Range? Not very likely.
As long as the MTF, flare, etc., matches, the dynamic range will be the same.
Scaleablity would also suffer in a smaller format for the same reason. Too little information collected per pixel.
I have no idea what those two sentences are supposed to mean.
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I expect that a FF 35mm camera with a 39 MP sensor with 14- or 16-bit conversion, using high-quality lenses (I recall that they used a Leice lens), would produce an image that is the equal of a medium format camera with a 39 MP back.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148257\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It depends on:
- the type of lens: wides are more of a problem,
- the lens manufacturer: Nikon can probablymake it on the wide end judging from their latest 14-24 f2.8 proposal, Canon doesn't appear to have the technology today, the german lens manufacturers might have a chance too.
- what you consider as a definition of image quality. Are we speaking of resolution in the center of the frame, or accross the frame (including corners),...
Overall, you are probably mostly correct.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hmmm....an interesting possibility....but the sensor sizes in MF and FF are different with the area of the MF sensors on average, being larger than that of a 35 mm FF. Shouldn't that mean that the image quality would be different as would the IQ of any enlargement? Perhaps Edmund, Foto-Z, TechTalk and the others can comment please? Thanks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148266\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
But you end up collecting the same amount of light. Consider two lenses capturing the same angle, each with a 1 mm aperture, one projecting an image that is 20mm from the lens, the other 40mm. Assume that the angular capture of each pixel is the same. Then, the "larger format" at 40mm covers 4 times the area. But, in the 20mm configuration, the light is 4 times brighter at the image plane (because of the Square Law). So, both pixels are receiving the same number of photons of light in a given period of time. So the fact that the pixels are different sizes doesn't matter much, to a first-order approximation.
In fact, the smaller pixels may have an advantage, because they have a smaller area that is collecting thermal noise.
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It depends on:
- the type of lens: wides are more of a problem,
- the lens manufacturer: Nikon can probablymake it on the wide end judging from their latest 14-24 f2.8 proposal, Canon doesn't appear to have the technology today, the german lens manufacturers might have a chance too.
- what you consider as a definition of image quality. Are we speaking of resolution in the center of the frame, or accross the frame (including corners),...
Overall, you are probably mostly correct.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148268\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Bernard,
I was speaking in theory, not about the current capabilities of any particular manufacturer. In terms of current manufacturers, I'd probably be talking about Leica or Schneider or Rodenstock producing lenses that are of a quality level similar to the Schneider lenses for the Rollei.
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But you end up collecting the same amount of light. Consider two lenses capturing the same angle, each with a 1 mm aperture, one projecting an image that is 20mm from the lens, the other 40mm. Assume that the angular capture of each pixel is the same. Then, the "larger format" at 40mm covers 4 times the area. But, in the 20mm configuration, the light is 4 times brighter at the image plane (because of the Square Law). So, both pixels are receiving the same number of photons of light in a given period of time. So the fact that the pixels are different sizes doesn't matter much, to a first-order approximation.
In fact, the smaller pixels may have an advantage, because they have a smaller area that is collecting thermal noise.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=148269\")
No way. No how. Here's a link to get you started... [a href=\"http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm]Digital Sensor Size Basics[/url]
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It is absolutely my opinion. I think we should all be welcoming somebody like him who is putting the finger where it hurts or showing contradictions. His claims, information and statements are imo always given accurately and with the right evidence, documents or links to the correct corresponding documents.
I do really appreciate having somebody like TechTalk here and it does only help all of us.
Thierry
I believe he tries in his posts to be very objective and fair. He simply objects to rants or unfounded opinions masquerading as factual statements, which is something we should all appreciate, and he is trying to set the record straight. Do you see him running down Sinar generally or the Hy6? Do you seem him doing that with Phase? Does he ascribe the complete lack of commercial success of Rollei products in the US to the cultural inferiority of Americans? I haven't. His modus operandi here is not negative about other companies' products. Let's be clear. There are many here who simply do not want to hear positive(or even simple factual) reports about Hasselblad and its products, and anyone who questions them or calls them out on their inaccurate statements gets in the way of their free for all.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148199\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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hcubell,
Why should I not be speaking about others? I have done so for Sinar users but also for non-Sinar users in the past, when I have the feeling that their contribution is worth the respect of us.
I respect your opinion, even if I do disagree with this forum being an advertising plateform for the Hy6. I am not sure who are the 3 but have my idea. You may have noticed that those 3 (if they are the same as my idea is) have never and do never start a topic and/or a claim by their own, simply responding with facts and correcting sometimes information provided here which is not accurate or then even purposely wrong.
You may have also noticed how often Sinar or Rolleiflex are bashed, out of the blue (by much more than 3 people), with absolutely no knowledge of the product, un-intentionally or not, having never even used it. Those 3 people do intervene in this case and it is absolutely their right to present the readers with counter-facts and their experiences and knowledge. But I can assure you that there is no connection between those 3 persons nor any consultation between them before posting.
Everybody wishes to give his contribution here and open the debate to the highest possible level. Most of the posters here are honest and full of sense with their postings and having no bias nor special agenda then to debate with respect and their experience. Graham is imo to be put in this category. It happens that he is a user of the brand I do represent, but I can say this from many others who are not and who I highly respect.
Best regards,
Thierry
Thierry, I would never speak for others, but in all candor, reading this Forum regularly over the past year feels to me like I'm living in the middle of an uniterrupted advertising campaign for the Hy6, run on a collective basis by three individuals. Fine, you can can do that, nobody is forcing me to read it. OTOH, Foto-Z has seemingly never passed up an opportunity to run down Hasselblad and its latest products, and yet he has apparently never even used them. You may note that exactly nine minutes elapsed between the first post in this thread with the Poulsen letter and Foto-Z's post about it being marketing bs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148204\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Nobody has mentioned the "options" at the end of the letter. I wonder what kind of deals they are going to be offering on 11/1 to encourage H1/H2 owners to trade in their cameras and buy an H3D? Will that include turning in third party DB's?
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No way. No how. Here's a link to get you started... Digital Sensor Size Basics (http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148272\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Tech, I have bolded the key phrase from the document you linked:
Further, larger pixels receive a greater flux of photons over a given exposure time (at the same aperture), so their light signal is much stronger. For a given amount of background noise, this produces a higher signal to noise ratio-- and thus a smoother looking photo.
As that article describes earlier, with different formats, you do not use the same aperture (in terms of f-number) to get the same depth of field. I could be wrong, but I believe that it actually works out that you use the same aperture in terms of millimeters to get equal DoF. Thus, the same amount of light striking a pixel of a given angular size.
In fact, they say the same thing about aperture, farther down in the article:
On the other hand, if you wish to maintain the same depth of field, larger sensor sizes do not necessarily have a resolution advantage. Further, the diffraction-limited depth of field is the same for all sensor sizes. In other words, if one were to use the smallest aperture before diffraction became significant, all sensor sizes would produce the same depth of field-- even though the diffraction limited aperture will be different. (Bold in the original)
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Tech, I have bolded the key phrase from the document you linked:
As that article describes earlier, with different formats, you do not use the same aperture (in terms of f-number) to get the same depth of field. I could be wrong, but I believe that it actually works out that you use the same aperture in terms of millimeters to get equal DoF. Thus, the same amount of light striking a pixel of a given angular size.
In fact, they say the same thing about aperture, farther down in the article:
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148282\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The key here is not how much light is entering the sensor. The key is how much you can store. This is called pixel "well capacity". The larger pixel will have a greater storage capacity for the electrons that are created from the photons entering two different size wells.
Sorry that the link that I provided doesn't really explain this in any depth.
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The key here is not how much light is entering the sensor. The key is how much you can store. This is called pixel "well capacity". The larger pixel will have a greater storage capacity for the electrons that are created from the photons entering two different size wells.
Sorry that the link that I provided doesn't really explain this in any depth.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148284\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you want to store more, then increase the capacitance.
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OTOH, Foto-Z has seemingly never passed up an opportunity to run down Hasselblad and its latest products,[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148204\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Clearly not true. I haven't started a single thread about Hasselblad, and I usually don't participate in Hasselblad related threads.
I took exception to Hasselblad's "letter" because it contained false or misleading information, to the point of being an insult to our intelligence. (If they are dropping the H2 due to 'falling sales', then why go to the expense of releasing a less-featured replacement? Pleeeeease.) Unfortunately this seems to be a regular event with Hasselblad marketing.
I also correct misinformation which is posted from time to time, such as eronald's post about the Hass H series being the only camera option for fast flash sync when in fact there are two current models with faster flash sync capability.
I can not comprehend why anyone would object to me posting a correction to false information.
Finally, it can't be denied that Hasselblad is the best-known brand in the MF world, which leads to a lot of newcomers asking about the Hasselblad options without apparently being aware that there are competitive products which may suit them better. The same seems to be true of Phase One to a lesser extent. The power of marketing... So if I point out that these players are not the only game in town I can only be doing the poster a favour by enlightening them as to their options. Some of the features of a Sinar eMotion back, for example, are undeniably advantageous (e.g. adapter system) and could make this the obvious choice for some users, but only if they know about it!
and yet he has apparently never even used them.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148204\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have used an H1 and H2, both with Phase backs.
You may note that exactly nine minutes elapsed between the first post in this thread with the Poulsen letter and Foto-Z's post about it being marketing bs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148204\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The time of my post is completely irrelevant, and I used the term 'marketing noise', not BS (although I was thinking it )
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If you want to store more, then increase the capacitance.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148295\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There is a finite physical limit to how many electrons can be trapped in a potential well, just like there is a limit to how much water a bucket will hold. It is the saturation limit of the potential well. A larger pixel has a larger well and can simply hold more electrons. There is no way to change this as you can't make the electrons smaller or the potential well bigger than they are already. That's the advantage of a physically larger sensor. In basic terms, the larger number of electrons that can be counted, the wider range of light you can measure and as a result capture a wider dynamic range.
If this still isn't clear, I'll try to find you a decent link that explains it better.
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Nobody has mentioned the "options" at the end of the letter. I wonder what kind of deals they are going to be offering on 11/1 to encourage H1/H2 owners to trade in their cameras and buy an H3D? Will that include turning in third party DB's?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148281\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
By the moment you say it, it becomes obvious to me: they want to draw the existing H1 and H2 out of the market.
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Which is the monopoly? Canon, Hasselblad or Nikon?
They are each producing a product line of integrated digital camera systems that do not interchange with the others.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148236\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It's clearly easier to put a different back onto a MF camera than it is to do so with a smaller format camera.
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Stop whining!
This action from Hasselblad is justified in my eyes. Why should they let other make money on them?
Do you think nikon would start manufacturing a eos - nikon mount so all nikon users can buy nice canon glass? Don't think so!
If you don't like what hasselblad did switch system.
This is a natural business step for them and I'm not surprised at all.
Also they will provide service for 10 years to existing customers which is a pretty good deal.
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Stop whining!
This action from Hasselblad is justified in my eyes. Why should they let other make money on them?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148316\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just about what I was going to post. Hasselblad are a business, they want to make money, just like professional photographers want/need to make money. If Phase are taking money out of their pockets in an area where there isn't really a lot of money to start with, it makes sense that they will prevent Phase from profiting off them.
The fact that this may be 'best' for the photographer is simply not relevent to Hasselbald, they are only interested in ensuring their own survival. Which is fair enough and looking at it in those terms what they are doing not only makes sense, but is probably essential to their survival, as the 1DsII has taken a lot of money off people who in the past would have used a MF camera.
Personally I'd like to have the choice of Phase or Hasselbald or whoever backs. But I'd prefer the choice of Hasselblad digital camers vs 35mm Digital compared to the possible option of Canon Vs Nikon and no MF Digital cameras.
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Stop whining!
This action from Hasselblad is justified in my eyes. Why should they let other make money on them?
Do you think nikon would start manufacturing a eos - nikon mount so all nikon users can buy nice canon glass? Don't think so!
If you don't like what hasselblad did switch system.
This is a natural business step for them and I'm not surprised at all.
Also they will provide service for 10 years to existing customers which is a pretty good deal.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148316\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is not about lenses this about a platform that has been sold and marketed to take third party digital options since day one. The Nikon Canon comparison is silly.
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This is not about lenses this about a platform that has been sold and marketed to take third party digital options since day one. The Nikon Canon comparison is silly.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148343\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So Hasselblad should continue making the H2 and letting, phase, sinar and leaf profit of them? Is that good business? Don't think so!
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I would say it sounds like Hassleblad wants to be Monopoly...
That is not good.
Snook
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Don't think so!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148349\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Neither is forcing customers along an upgrade path unneccessarily.
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So Hasselblad should continue making the H2 and letting, phase, sinar and leaf profit of them? Is that good business? Don't think so!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=148349\")
Hasselblad the camera maker should be happy that they sell a camera to any user. The MFDB market is a separate market in which Hasselblad is still free to make a profit by selling backs which people will buy. The problem arises when they attempt to lock out the competition. There are laws against this type of behaviour, so I don't see why some people are supporting it.
see [a href=\"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law[/url]
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So Hasselblad should continue making the H2 and letting, phase, sinar and leaf profit of them? Is that good business? Don't think so!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148349\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You are totally overlooking the fact that also Hasselblad back users are affected by this decision.
It is not just the 3rd party backs.
Anybody with a Hasselblad/Imacon back other than the H3 finds himself now without a current Hasselblad camera.
Still, good to read the CF line will be further developed. I am keeping my fingers crossed Hasselblad will come with a H3 Ixpress adapter and the possibility to use functions in their software that are now only in the H3 back.
It was inevitable that Hasselblad would do this however how hard would it have been to inform their customers? Most people I know have registered with Hasselblad with email addresses and equipment. A mail to those that are affected by the discontinuation of the H2 and a list of their options would have been really great marketing & communication!
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Bernard AlthoughI do not have the sales data statistics, I think your statements are very logical and likely correct. Most impotantly as you state, Hasselblad should have been more honest with their planned pathway. I think it is great that all companies try to improve upon their line and when improvements reach a specific point, they move forward with a new release. While the public made not be made aware of the specific details before an announcement, the general path of most of these companies is generally pretty clear. I do not feel this is the case with Hasselblad. In my opinion, Paulsen's statements (over recent history) have been disingenuous and this is what is so objectionable. There is no way that last year when he stated the H2 would continue as long as there was demand was an honest statement. They had to have had the H2F pathway mapped out. Therefore, moving forward, I will have little trust in him moving forward. Mark
The decline in H2 sales is very much the consequence of the lack of clarity of Hassy as far as the future of the H2 was concerned.
IMHO, there is no doubt that their intention was to kill the H2 from day one. They acted in such a way as to make people stop buying the H2, and are now using sales decline as a justification for their action.
This being said, I have no problem with Hassy deciding to concentrate on a closed system, it is indeed their prerogative. I would have preferred a more clear cut communication from them, instead of the current lukewarm approach.
Overall, I feel that Hassy products are currently still overpriced, like the other MFDB. I am also not sure about their upgrade policy. How much would I have to pay to migrate a H3D39 to an hypothetical H4D55?
Cheers,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148243\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I usually don't post in discussions along this line but this time I can't help myself! This letter from Hasselblad is the biggest bunch of marketing hype (bs) I've ever heard. Why insult our intelligence...why not say "we want to dominate the medium format (not "dslr") market and want to put others out of business and we don't believe in Having choices. Why not be "open" about it. I've used Hasselblad for years, first the V system, now the H2 system with a Phase back. I called one of the head guys at Hasselblad about 6 months ago to let him know how I felt about their "marketing strategies". All he did was talk non stop (literally) and try to lure me over to the Hassy digital back system. That's what they'er doing. Well it's not going to work with me. I wish everyone would write a letter to Hasselblad and inundate them with complaint letters from their user base. Just a suggestion. Eleanor
Just about what I was going to post. Hasselblad are a business, they want to make money, just like professional photographers want/need to make money. If Phase are taking money out of their pockets in an area where there isn't really a lot of mone
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There is no way that last year when he stated the H2 would continue as long as there was demand was an honest statement. They had to have had the H2F pathway mapped out. Therefore, moving forward, I will have little trust in him moving forward. Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148378\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Maybe not so. It's often when a company gets taken over by a faceless corporation that the new owners lack a vision what they want to do. They didn't purchase H out of love of photography they bought if for brand value. Now they are out there to cash and eliminating what ever seems to stand in the way of profit. Excel sheet managers don't read forums!
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I think all companies want to be the dominant in their respective field. There is nothing wrong with that.. It is just that there are some ethical issues that in my mind that have been crossed. Stating one thing and then doing another... when the time frame is too short for the company to claim they changed their minds... after the fact.
I usually don't post in discussions along this line but this time I can't help myself! This letter from Hasselblad is the biggest bunch of marketing hype (bs) I've ever heard. Why insult our intelligence...why not say "we want to dominate the medium format (not "dslr") market and want to put others out of business and we don't believe in Having choices. Why not be "open" about it. I've used Hasselblad for years, first the V system, now the H2 system with a Phase back. I called one of the head guys at Hasselblad about 6 months ago to let him know how I felt about their "marketing strategies". All he did was talk non stop (literally) and try to lure me over to the Hassy digital back system. That's what they'er doing. Well it's not going to work with me. I wish everyone would write a letter to Hasselblad and inundate them with complaint letters from their user base. Just a suggestion. Eleanor
Just about what I was going to post. Hasselblad are a business, they want to make money, just like professional photographers want/need to make money. If Phase are taking money out of their pockets in an area where there isn't really a lot of mone
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148397\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Except the Rollei 6008 which has an even faster flash sync, and the Hy6 which is actually on the market now!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148097\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I didn't know Hy6 is available now, I was told that dealers would have few copies in mid November, not for sale though just testing.
Maybe I am wrong, but I would love to know where/store is Hy6 available on the market now?
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Hi!
I think all companies want to be the dominant in their respective field. There is nothing wrong with that.. It is just that there are some ethical issues that in my mind that have been crossed. Stating one thing and then doing another... when the time frame is too short for the company to claim they changed their minds... after the fact.
Maybe they have learned from the politicians...
Cheers,
J
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Dear Natasa,
The Sinar Hy6 is shipping since a few days, first in small quantities and obvioulsy to cover the demonstration needs from our distributors worldwide. With the production capacity increasing this should be done soon.
Those delivered models are series models, no prototypes, thus not only for testing.
Prices are available and orders are taken already.
Best regards,
Thierry
I didn't know Hy6 is available now, I was told that dealers would have few copies in mid November, not for sale though just testing.
Maybe I am wrong, but I would love to know where/store is Hy6 available on the market now?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Natasa,
The Sinar Hy6 is shipping since a few days, first in small quantities and obvioulsy to cover the demonstration needs from our distributors worldwide. With the production capacity increasing this should be done soon.
Those delivered models are series models, no prototypes, thus not only for testing.
Prices are available and orders are taken already.
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148426\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You are not going to feel uncomfortable if I ask you to deliver one for me by the end of this week via FedEx?
[span style=\'font-size:12pt;line-height:100%\']I will pay today, just don't be late with the invoice!!![/span]
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You are not going to feel uncomfortable if I ask you to deliver one for me by the end of this week via FedEx?
[span style=\'font-size:12pt;line-height:100%\']I will pay today, just don't be late with the invoice!!![/span]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148429\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sounds like somebody's coming up on the end of her fiscal year...
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You are not going to feel uncomfortable if I ask you to deliver one for me by the end of this week via FedEx?
[span style=\'font-size:12pt;line-height:100%\']I will pay today, just don't be late with the invoice!!![/span]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148429\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Natasa:
Hy6/AFi demonstration units are expected to be received by dealers within 3 to 4 weeks (at least that is what we are expecting).
If anyone needs pricing on Sinar eMotion/Hy6 or Leaf Aptus/AFi configurations, feel free to contact me directly. The main bundle pricing is generally known but I also have complete accessory pricing as well.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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Natasa:
Hy6/AFi demonstration units are expected to be received by dealers within 3 to 4 weeks (at least that is what we are expecting).
If anyone needs pricing on Sinar eMotion/Hy6 or Leaf Aptus/AFi configurations, feel free to contact me directly. The main bundle pricing is generally known but I also have complete accessory pricing as well.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148440\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
thats some long shipping time, I thought the guy said they are already shipping?
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Natasa:
Hy6/AFi demonstration units are expected to be received by dealers within 3 to 4 weeks (at least that is what we are expecting).
If anyone needs pricing on Sinar eMotion/Hy6 or Leaf Aptus/AFi configurations, feel free to contact me directly. The main bundle pricing is generally known but I also have complete accessory pricing as well.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148440\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It seems to me that all of these manufacturers would want to gain as much market share as possible. Why doesn't one of them embrace me.... a P45/H2 user with an offer that I can't refuse? They all seem to think that I am the enemy just because I have a P45. This is a lot of money to flush down the toilet.
Victor
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It seems to me that all of these manufacturers would want to gain as much market share as possible. Why doesn't one of them embrace me.... a P45/H2 user with an offer that I can't refuse? They all seem to think that I am the enemy just because I have a P45. This is a lot of money to flush down the toilet.
Victor
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148460\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yeah I have noticed this
I have a sinar back but have been offered no great trade in package for my H1 from Sinar
I have an H1 and have been offered no great trade in for my sinarback to go H3IIIII
I thought I read somewhere that the easiest customers to sell to are ones who have already bought your stuff
95% at least of my business is from exisiting customers
It should be noted of course that HBlad are aware of the fact that they havnt got a clue who has thier kit and would like that information badly enough to lose thier margin on a lense to get that information
Sinar (dealer) actually rang me up to ask me what the seriel number of my upgrade back was - even though they could surely have looked it up on thier own invoices
S
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It should be noted of course that HBlad are aware of the fact that they havnt got a clue who has thier kit and would like that information badly enough to lose thier margin on a lense to get that information
S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148463\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I registered my H2 during their promotion and NEVER received a reply from them for the lens I indicated I would be willing to purchase at the discounted price. I even emailed (TWICE) both Denmark and US regarding Hasselblad's unwillingness to live up to their promotion and never got a response.
You know.... all of this bad carma and poor public relations flows from the top down.
Victor
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Dear Natasa,
No, I won't (feel uncomfortable): it is not me the responsible for delivery and shipment!
Thierry
You are not going to feel uncomfortable if I ask you to deliver one for me by the end of this week via FedEx?
[span style=\'font-size:12pt;line-height:100%\']I will pay today, just don't be late with the invoice!!![/span]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148429\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Natasa,
No, I won't (feel uncomfortable): it is not me the responsible for delivery and shipment!
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148516\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not to worry, If it is not you responsible for delivery and shipment! I should wait for the other half of the answer/solution and perhaps Hy6 can arrive first half of the next week.
[span style=\'font-size:12pt;line-height:100%\']Let me know about the payment instruction!!![/span]