Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Snook on October 19, 2007, 09:21:55 am
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Just saw it in today..
First time B&H has had the kit in stock...
Let's see how long they last..:+}
Snook
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Just saw it in today..
First time B&H has had the kit in stock...
Let's see how long they last..:+}
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147157\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
is it the "update" version of the back if you can tell for any reason
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What is the updated version??? AS far as I know there are no updates, but could be wrong!
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I could be wrong but I think that I read here that mamiya was suppose to fix the worm pb and those back were suppose to be ship in October... that is what I call the update...
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Sorry did me anything wrong with your wording.. I have not seen anything that mamiya even admitted to any problems? Been keeping my on eye on the ZD and the progress. I am going most likely with a Leaf aptus 22, But seeing how supposedly they use the same chip I was wondering what it would be like with out the Purple blobs and High Noise! And saving 6-7K$ No, just kidding they are 2 different backs besides the Dalsa Chip....:+}
Hopefully they get it worked out, but I guess as soon as some more shipments are made and more people here in the US get their hands on them we will have more reviews, Because so far it has been dismal to say the least. I have seen VERY little in the post that have been posted here. The majority were problem threads.
And I have yet to see any fashion stuff with the ZD which is my forte.
Skin tones are important to me of course not high asa. I never shoot above 100 asa.
I guess we'll see.
Snook
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again I think I read something about fix in the forum...
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I ordered one this morning, but now B&H shows "new item" & backordered. If I get a UPS tracking number tonight, then I'll know. If no tracking email, then a quick call Sunday should confirm what I already expect.
If one shows up next week, the first test will be for the purple blobs. Supposedly if was a defect in the manufacturing process (report on Doorhof's blog) and has been corrected. Do you accept that as fact or not??? That's why I purchased from B&H since their return policy is easy to work with.
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not for long - w/ all the photoplus traffic...
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I ordered one this morning, but now B&H shows "new item" & backordered. If I get a UPS tracking number tonight, then I'll know. If no tracking email, then a quick call Sunday should confirm what I already expect.
If one shows up next week, the first test will be for the purple blobs. Supposedly if was a defect in the manufacturing process (report on Doorhof's blog) and has been corrected. Do you accept that as fact or not??? That's why I purchased from B&H since their return policy is easy to work with.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147255\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi
What I heard here in Sydney from L&P ( agent) that there was a problem ( electronic) in the back. They have solved this now & it wasn't the sensor. The best thing you can do is ask them at the MAC stand at the NYC show. What I would really like to know is when is LR going to be tethered for the ZD. If this happens I think LR will go tethered for others as well ( my wish). I am taking my ZD camera into L&P next week for a firm ware upgrade. They have the equipment now to do it in Sydney.
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Apparently in stock at Vistek in Toronto
http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?...=ProPhotoMamiya (http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=232422&CategoryID=ProPhotoMamiya)
Not clear if the optional low pass filter is included or not.
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Apparently in stock at Vistek in Toronto
http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?...=ProPhotoMamiya (http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=232422&CategoryID=ProPhotoMamiya)
Not clear if the optional low pass filter is included or not.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147296\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i have just been in singapore- there must have been 3 shops i saw that had the zd camera in stock.
they were over 20,000 singapore dollars, not sure what that is, but its a lot more than the US price.
paul
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It seems Canadian stores have them in stock, but the U.S. stores don't. I'm not sure as to why. MAC group is probably sick of my emails - I ping them every month asking when & where the kits will be available.
I'm in Dallas, TX so swinging by New York to buy the guys at Photo Plus would be an expensive afternoon Probably a very fun afternoon though.
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I have not seen anything that mamiya even admitted to any problems? Been keeping my on eye on the ZD and the progress. I am going most likely with a Leaf aptus 22, But seeing how supposedly they use the same chip I was wondering what it would be like with out the Purple blobs and High Noise! And saving 6-7K$ No, just kidding they are 2 different backs besides the Dalsa Chip....:+}
Hopefully they get it worked out, but I guess as soon as some more shipments are made and more people here in the US get their hands on them we will have more reviews, Because so far it has been dismal to say the least. I have seen VERY little in the post that have been posted here. The majority were problem threads.
And I have yet to see any fashion stuff with the ZD which is my forte.
Skin tones are important to me of course not high asa. I never shoot above 100 asa.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=147180\")
Snook,
Do you actually read what people with ZD back and ZD camera writes of info here on LL?????
Check back on this thread: [a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20079]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=20079[/url]. It is one you contributed to and asked about model shots. I posted some but have heard nil from you on it. Those were natural low light shots. With studio lighting I am sure it will rock! Bob Croslin also stated there to you and others that Mamiya had received a new shipment with updated firmware of ZD back in USA
Do a thorough search on ZD on LL and you will find plenty to read and from USERS of ZD back and ZD camera. One of my posts from a few months back was LONG list of ZD reviews I had found internationally.
Granted the ZD back is rather new but there is plenty on ZD camera. The ZD back and camera are same, except that the ZD back now seem to have a newer firm ware, as was pointed out to you already by Bob Croslin in the post I linked above.
Anyone, just do thorough search because much info is already at hands
I am not the only with ZD that am frank getting tired of posting due to the lack of respect and people not reading and instead writing of what they plain not know about. Read the threads Snook. Most posts being problem related is a plain lie. As I am sure anyone see by SEARCHING and READING there are many people who have written well of the ZD, even ones such as Frank Doorhof and myself who have experienced problems. Yet, still with that... we keep writing well of it. Hm... must be a reason we do so...
Regards
Anders
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Anders quit jumping in on my Zd post and questions, Please.
Thanks.
Your post and the post I have seen of some trees and some 1-2 years images of the first ZD are not convincing. Contrary they are quite horrible in all aspects.
And I am looking for High end fashion shooters. Not to knock any posts but I have not seen ANY fashion shots are even people portraits for that matter.
So although I am sure you are trying to be helpful, It is not the answer I am looking for. OK?
Do not want to argue with you, But in my opinion I have not seen any good shot's (Portrait/Fashion) wise from anybody anywhere on the net. Frank Door posted a couple only and they were to show the purple blobs he was experiencing.
So I state again that we are not talking the same language.
I have read every review, every post there is for the ZD. Yes I have searched etc.... Been in forums for MANY years now and know how to search out what I am trying to find. So thanks for your help...
I guess now they are getting some shipments in here and there we'll see what starts to pop up.
Seems like all the european guys are silent.
You also and others stated how MANY have been shipped and sold through B&H and other stores for a while, Well that is and was not true as they got 1-2 shipments in with a 1/2 dozen units.
Now the shipments should start rolling in and we'll get some Better reviews, I hope.
In any case I am quite aware that you Love your ZD camera and more power to you, But I am wanting to hear more about the ZD -BACK,not camera, and want to see some more FASHION/PORTRAIT pictures.... Clear?
Thanks
Snook
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Here is one on ebay, forget the picture as it is the ZD camera.http://cgi.ebay.com/Mamiya-645AF-II-WITH-80MM-LENS-AND-ZD-BACK-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ150173805396QQihZ005QQcategoryZ3352QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie
wItem
I have compared the ZD camera to the Aptus 22 & at iso 50 there isn't much difference. I use RD for the ZD which produces a clean file. With the Aptus there are presets that the ZD doesn't. You will have to make them yourself (ZD). In the studio the buffer of only 11 frames is why I rent the Aptus 22. However for personal work outside I prefer the ZD camera due to size & it turns on in about a second. I have shot portraits with the ZD and the quality is excellent. As I said before my ZD camera will be getting a firmware upgrade for the first time. When it comes to problems just about every company has had them.
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Anders quit jumping in on my Zd post and questions, Please.
Thanks.
Your post and the post I have seen of some trees and some 1-2 years images of the first ZD are not convincing. Contrary they are quite horrible in all aspects.
And I am looking for High end fashion shooters. Not to knock any posts but I have not seen ANY fashion shots are even people portraits for that matter.
So although I am sure you are trying to be helpful, It is not the answer I am looking for. OK?
Do not want to argue with you, But in my opinion I have not seen any good shot's (Portrait/Fashion) wise from anybody anywhere on the net. Frank Door posted a couple only and they were to show the purple blobs he was experiencing.
So I state again that we are not talking the same language.
I have read every review, every post there is for the ZD. Yes I have searched etc.... Been in forums for MANY years now and know how to search out what I am trying to find. So thanks for your help...
I guess now they are getting some shipments in here and there we'll see what starts to pop up.
Seems like all the european guys are silent.
You also and others stated how MANY have been shipped and sold through B&H and other stores for a while, Well that is and was not true as they got 1-2 shipments in with a 1/2 dozen units.
Now the shipments should start rolling in and we'll get some Better reviews, I hope.
In any case I am quite aware that you Love your ZD camera and more power to you, But I am wanting to hear more about the ZD -BACK,not camera, and want to see some more FASHION/PORTRAIT pictures.... Clear?
Thanks
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147425\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Snook,
No offense, not mean jumping on your posts. Same time I obeserved that some did not match what others with ZD and fact info of ZD already have posted.
If you are serious, then why not buy the ZD back at B&H? If you do not like it after, it is very easy to return it to them and get your money back (that is B&H way right?). I honest and very sincerely think it would be interesting to see some of your shoots with it posted and to hear of your experience with it.
I am sure you seen what Frank D posted on his site on fashion/portrait pictures...
As far as image quality the ZD back and camera are same, save for what latest firmware on back may have improved it over the camera.
Rgds
Anders
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Non taken...:+}
In any case I have stated that where I live it is not so easy just to return it.. It is a little more complicated than that as I have to pay custom taxes etc... And sending back is expensive and takes a while.
That is my whole problem even though I have narrowed it down to the Aptus 22 pretty much or a P25/p30?
I was just interested to see what comes of the ZD and I read somewhere it has the same chips as the Aptus 22. I think I would go crazy with 11 frames and then have to wait. I have gotten spoiled with the CAnon 1DsMII. Started out with film on 6X7 and nothing could be slower than that except 4x5 and larger..:+]
I appreciate your input on the ZD you have been very helpful to many I am sure, Just I have not really seen anything that made me even give it much of a chance.
If they fix the supposed tethered problems and purple blobs I think for the money it is a great deal.
Thanks
Snook
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The stores in Canada?
You mean the only store that carries it, Vistek and their price is 8999 with the current dollar rate it should me 6500. What a rip-off...
They claim that have it in stock for like 4 months now
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Here's what I know from my first shoot with my new replacement ZD back that MAC shipped me last week.
Purple blobs are gone but I still would not shoot the back over ISO 200. IMO Mamiya ought to make ISO 400 go away.
Buffer has been a pleasant surprise and doesn't seem to be an issue but then again I don't hammer away at the shutter.
I was having issues with lockups with my first back and that seems to be fixed as well. Mamiya told me that there was indeed a hardware fix as well as a bunch of firmware tweaking.
I have a long shoot Monday that should be a great test of whether the back is up to the task. I'll try and make a frame that I can post here. I'm also going to see if I can get tethered shooting up nd running with the Mamiya software and lightroom.
Snook - why not contact Steve Hendrix at PPR and see if he can set you up with a ZD demo? He's also a Leaf dealer (and a heck of a nice guy) so if you don't like the ZD I'm sure he'd be happy to sell you an Aptus 22.
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Purple blobs are gone but I still would not shoot the back over ISO 200. IMO Mamiya ought to make ISO 400 go away.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147537\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Bob,
It will be interesting to hear more of your experience with your ZD back . In your mentioning of not over ISO200, do you refer to in also low light with dark areas in photo? In that case it would show perhaps firmware improvement over ZD camera at moment. For ZD camera I am cautious of using even ISO160. Granted ISO400 is noisy.
Rgds
Anders
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I have narrowed it down to the Aptus 22 pretty much or a P25/p30?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147521\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Snook
I use a sinar back so have used none of the above - I know it is very similar to the P25 - I also have used many other Digicams
this is my reckoning.
The A22, the P25 and the Zd all use the same generation chip initially marketed as 25 ISO
You should buy none of them unless you consider them to be 50ISO your standard and 100 for emergencies
They are all excellent with studio lights and in the sun - they all also ehibit noise in the shadows
And they all lead to a certain shooting style generally involving fill flash or reflectors efectively to close the DR of the image towards the right of the histo
When you subtly ligthen the shadows in this manner you will have no noise problems -
you may darken the shadows using curves in PS to create your look in the final image
when these cameras shoot in unmodified natural light of wide DR even at 100 you will have pretty wooly shadows unless you expose well right and are happy with blown highlights (I am - they go in a lovely manner on these cameras)
The P30 is a different generation of chip - faster - that more useable in natural situations probably good for 200 and 400 emergencies
IMO only get a ZD or an A22 or a P25 if you do highly controlled shooting and at least have an assist to fill your exposure with reflectors
If you want a real 'street' camer where you can shoot wide DR scenes AS IS you will need a P30 or maybe a nikon D3
On the other hand just printed my portfolio and some of the images were kodak SLRn at 400 ISO - now that is NOISE - but after a bit of tinkling in PS can I see that noise on the prints - NO
incedentally my obsession with subtle fill flash which beats that noise problem is highly connected to my dislike of any cameras that sysnch at 125th like mamaiya
SMM
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Thanks Morgan for the information.
I usually shoot in studio and usually under 100 asa, Never above. I always use fill flash or reflectors so that should not be a problem.
Interesting the P30 difference. I had no idea.
I was basically always interested in the P30 from the beginning but then got sold on the Aptus 22 with it's supposedly better skin tones (for fashion) and it's bigger LCD even though it is not that sharp.
The other throw off for the APtus 22 was the funky battery positioning but I can deal with that.
I agrre that it stinks that the AFD syncs @ 125.. Back in the film days I shot with Pentax 6X7 and Mamiya Pro Tl of which I had and have all the Leafshutter lens for Both. They have been collecting dust for about 6-7 years now...
I almost went with the RZ ProIID but am not used to shooting so slow and with a waist finder prism. But the option was there and their lens sync at 400/th which would be great. That is why I was asking earlier which would be easier to adapt to a RZ in the future. But still have not figure that out yet.
In any case I have a 1DsMII and a 5D for back-up and will keep them for catalogue shoots and back-up only. I really wanted the MFDB for me and Advertising job that I can shoot slower and need maybe that extra file size and quality.
Otherwise I would just stick with the 1DsMIII as I have never had any complaints about it EVER. And I do Double page spreads all the time and billboards all over town as well as in store Posters.
I just miss the medium format and would like to get back to it some how with out breaking the bank as it will not be my only camera outfit.
That is why the ZD was interesting, but to unstable at this point.
Snook
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Dear Sam,
I upgraded my e22 to the e54LV version (got a new back from Sinar as a total swap) and see a lot of improvements in terms of noise at 100 ISO; still 200 ISO as highest, but much better noise control between 50-160 ISO.
Yevgeny
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Morgan is dead on.
The sweet spot of the ZD is ISO 50-100. ISO 160 is really about as far as I'd go with the Dalsa chip and even then it's with the understanding that there may be noise in the shadows. My experience ink-on-paper is that the noise is not enough to show up in magazine repro.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
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Thanks Morgan for the information.
I usually shoot in studio and usually under 100 asa, Never above. I always use fill flash or reflectors so that should not be a problem.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Considering this I think a ZD back will work fine
my observations is that things like the purple blobs are some software effort at boosting the shadows gone very wrong
Considering P25s A22s and Sinar22s are available used for little more than the price of a new ZD back (which there are none used yet) I would go with one of them
I would not go for the P30 because, although more practical than the other backs as a primary shooting solution, there is the crop factor which not only affects the widest lens but the whole look of the system and is less appripriate to the use with view cameras should you choose to play in that direction
You are after a secondary shooting solution after you D series gear
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To other posters I made it clear which products I have used and never said the chips were the same - just the same generation - and I do have a 54LV and it is marginally better than an E22 but not radically different I have shot them side to side as a quick test using brumbaer ACR to process out - maybe not a fair test
and Bob as a fan of your work and experience I take that as a compliment that I might occasionally fire in the right direction with some of my ramblings
S
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Dear John,
May I say that this is speculation and that I suggest anybody to try on a dide by side comparison.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
So be honest, I think you are using the Sinar ISO ratings and respective image quality to make a guess at other backs. Many other backs perform far better at higher ISOs than the Sinar.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Sam,
I upgraded my e22 to the e54LV version (got a new back from Sinar as a total swap) and see a lot of improvements in terms of noise at 100 ISO; still 200 ISO as highest, but much better noise control between 50-160 ISO.
Yevgeny
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147683\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm glad to hear this as I expect to do the same upgrade, and this is the first user report I have seen. Spasibo! Was 50-160 a typo? Should be 50-200, right?
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It was a typo. Sorry, I am travelling and use my Phone to post. The 54LV still loves a lot of light, nothing changed too much. But the improvements are noticeble if marginal
Yevgeny I'm glad to hear this as I expect to do the same upgrade, and this is the first user report I have seen. Spasibo! Was 50-160 a typo? Should be 50-200, right?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I'm glad to hear this as I expect to do the same upgrade, [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=147773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So now you have two user reports
"marginally better than an E22 but not radically different "
"the improvements are noticeble if marginal"
We both chose the word marginal !
I did do a side by side my 54LV with another users E22 he is wondering about the switch - his answer no - my anser - yes - reason - me handheld shooter- him tripod shooter
Anyway we are hijacking the OPs thread
SMM
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The Kit with camera says "In Stock" still, Not sure if they got here this morning or if they were all sold out?
Just thought some would like to know
Snook
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my observations is that things like the purple blobs are some software effort at boosting the shadows gone very wrong
I was told that the purple blobs were due to a hardware issue and have been fixed. I shot the lifestyle shoot from hell yesterday and ended up having to shoot in the dark so I'll have some real feedback about shadow noise and 2 sec - 10 sec expsoures.
I'll have something to say later today hopefully.
(and Morgan, if what you write here are ramblings I'd love to hear you when you're trying!)
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Greta Bob... Please share any information..
Thank you
Snook
Zd camera or Back?
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ZD back.
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I've posted my findings in this new thread:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=20472 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20472)
please be gentle.
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Just shot a job with the A22 and it is just wonderful. Beautiful image quality at 50, 100 and 200. I actually prefer the look of it to the P45 which I find to be very 'digital' looking for lack of a better term. If the ZD can take advantage of the Dalsa chip, it should be wonderful image-quality wise.
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Just shot a job with the A22 and it is just wonderful. Beautiful image quality at 50, 100 and 200. I actually prefer the look of it to the P45 which I find to be very 'digital' looking for lack of a better term. If the ZD can take advantage of the Dalsa chip, it should be wonderful image-quality wise.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148291\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just shot an image for a book cover with the ZD camera - perfect image quality.
Quentin
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Maybe I'm completely off here but I just prefer the Dalsa chip to the Kodak for some reason! It seems as if the P45 (never tried the P30) just has a very digital look (artifacts?) to it when I zoom in on images. Also, the color rendition seems to be more film-like with the Dalsa chip. This is all on location jobs. In the studio, i can't seem to tell much difference between any of them.