Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: sbernthal on October 17, 2007, 06:35:53 am
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I am still in Canon, but I am planning to go to MF in a few months when the time will be right for me financially.
In this stage I am doing the research, so that the when I buy the most expensive product I have ever bought, I will not find out too late it is not what I needed.
Where I'm located dealers are not a serious option, and one needs to order online without seeing the product or consulting a dealer face to face.
So if anyone could help with some questions, it would be most appreciated.
I see people now talking about the new hy6 system.
According to the attached product shot, Rollei, Sinar and Leaf all have the same body with a different label.
Can each body connect only to the back of the same label?
Is the lens mount different on those bodies?
Am I missing something here?
Why is the hy6 system considered superior to Hassy and Mamiya?
Better lenses? Sync speed? Focusing?
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Am I missing something here?
Why is the hy6 system considered superior to Hassy and Mamiya?
Better lenses? Sync speed? Focusing?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
As far as I know, none consider it superior. Mainly because it hasn't been tested by proffesionals yet.
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Can each body connect only to the back of the same label?
No, from what we've been told so far, the cameras will be identical so you can swap bodies of different brands if necessary.
Is the lens mount different on those bodies?
Same lens mount on all the cameras. They should be 100% identical mechanically.
Why is the hy6 system considered superior to Hassy and Mamiya?
Better lenses? Sync speed? Focusing?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'll stay away from calling it superior right now but yes it has higher flash sync than the Hasselblad (1/1000 v 1/800) and both are much faster than the Mamiya.
Some prefer the results of these lenses, but you can make up your own mind about that when you see samples (which are already out there because the lenses have been out for years). I believe there's a wider selection of lenses already out there than the Hass H system. I know nothing about Mamiya.
The AF on the Hy6 was reported by some testers to be the best of medium format, but we are really waiting on the first wave of real user reports to know these things for sure.
Handling has been well received, but again that will come down to individual preference.
One difference is that the Hy6 can be used with a waist level finder in portrait or landscape modes. The others can't. Also you will be able to change orientation by just rotating the back, not the whole camera.
Finally, some are hoping for larger sensors in the future, such as a square 56x56mm sensor, which only the Hy6 and view cameras will be able to use (of all the current platforms).
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I am still in Canon, but I am planning to go to MF in a few months when the time will be right for me financially.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Dependant on your needs the hy6/leaf/sinar system is currently missing a wide lens
Personally I would ad 6months to any advertised lead times for the 35
Hassy is of course good to go
S
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Thanks for your answers.
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Dependant on your needs the hy6/leaf/sinar system is currently missing a wide lens
Well the 40mm f3.5 Schneider lens is fantastic. It is my most used lens.
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Hmmm, there's something I never thought about, but what comes to my mind and nobody talked about:
What about using these new Mount Hy6 back, where else can we put them on: I remember reading that Alpa will have adapters available. But what about Horseman, Cambo, Arca, Silvestri and our old LF cameras? Some of these don't even bother releaseing adapters for Contax.
(SOrry if this has been discussed)
tom
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What about using these new Mount Hy6 back, where else can we put them on: I remember reading that Alpa will have adapters available.
tom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146825\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I havnt even seen mention of it going on a sinar P3
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When talking about the Hy6 there are too many *will* words. No existing camera can compete with an imaginary product. If Sinar or Leaf disagree with this post, let them find a user to post a review here of a ***fully functional*** Hy6, together with comparison shots with brand C, H or M.
Edmund
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I'm sure it will at least work on the P3 and the Sinar m;-)
Thierry, is it possible to use the Sinar Hy6 back on a P3/F3 untethered on location with CMV lenses.
Tom-
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Dear Edmund,
you always have and find the nice words, when it comes to criticize! Once again, thank you.
Don't however be too much worried about reviews or other comparisons by real photographers and under real shooting conditions. They will come.
It has nothing to do with disagreeing with your post, nor HAVING TO find a user, but simply with respect and posts making somehow some sense.
And by the way: the Sinar Hy6 isn't anymore an imaginary product. It has started to ship, and it has been available for tests and demonstartions at different exhibitions those last 2 weeks. So far I have understood, you have yourself visited the Salon in Paris and should have seen it.
I feel sorry to have to write this way, but this BS has simply no place in a serious forum and it gives misleading information.
Thanks for your understanding and best regards,
Thierry
When talking about the Hy6 there are too many *will* words. No existing camera can compete with an imaginary product. If Sinar or Leaf disagree with this post, let them find a user to post a review here of a ***fully functional*** Hy6, together with comparison shots with brand C, H or M.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146830\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Tom,
the Hy6 mount is an adapter like ALL other Sinar adapter plates: it can be removed and the back then fitted with any other currently available adapter plates for the corresponding back.
There is nothing new in this and in our adapter system policy.
Best regards,
Thierry
Hmmm, there's something I never thought about, but what comes to my mind and nobody talked about:
What about using these new Mount Hy6 back, where else can we put them on: I remember reading that Alpa will have adapters available. But what about Horseman, Cambo, Arca, Silvestri and our old LF cameras? Some of these don't even bother releaseing adapters for Contax.
(SOrry if this has been discussed)
tom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146825\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Sam,
ANY Sinarback can fit the p3 camera, as well as all current MF bodies and view cameras in the market.
It has nothing to do with the Hy6: the adapter which fits the Hy6 is a adapter like any other adapter plate in our system.
Best regards,
Thierry
I havnt even seen mention of it going on a sinar P3
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146827\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Tom,
NOT the "Sinar Hy6 back: there is NO Sinar hy6 back existing: all our current back models do fit the Sinar Hy6 camera platform (with the exception of the SB 54 H yet).
BUT the digital backs which fit the Sinar Hy6 body DO ALL adapt to a p3/f3 (as well as all current MF bodies and view cameras) WITH the CORRESPONDING adapter.
Best regards,
Thierry
I'm sure it will at least work on the P3 and the Sinar m;-)
Thierry, is it possible to use the Sinar Hy6 back on a P3/F3 untethered on location with CMV lenses.
Tom-
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146833\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Thierry,
I have seen numerous prototypes of the Hy6, which is a very nice design, so nice in fact that I might well buy one, when it is shown to be mature. I have not so far handled a fully functional unit myself. As you know I finally ordered a camera and a back from a different brand just now - if the Hy6 had been available as stated in May I would probably have bought it. Unfortunately the reality of needing a solution that is known to work and ready to ship overtook my wish for a more modern integrated system like the Hy6.
As for the latest Paris expo, yes, I did meet a very nice employee of Sinar, but only on the Hasselblad stand I believe this gentleman is the head of your after sales service, which now makes him the most important person in your company in my eyes.
I have been struggling for exactly one year now with a Leica M8 where body after body has collapsed and simply died on me; Leica is known for attention to quality. I have also had similar experiences with "new model" Canon EOS-1 bodies, and Canon is also a very good company. Because of this I am inclined not believe that a *digital* camera is ready for heavy use until it has been at least 6 months in final user hands. The necessity of a real-world shakeout period seems to be a fact of life that is true regardless of the dedication of the marketing staff or engineering team.
Edmund
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Dear Tom,
NOT the Sinar Hy6, BUT the digital backs which fit the Sinar Hy6 body DO ALL adapt to a p3/f3 (as well as all current MF bodies and view cameras) WITH the CORRESPONDING adapter.
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146847\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thierry,
The versatilty of an interchangeable mount on a digital back represents added value. It allows the user to decide what the back is mounted to, instead of the back deciding what it can or can't be mounted to.
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Dear Edmund,
You should have handled one during the Salon in Paris: my colleague Hans Peter told me that he met you! So it would have been easy to get a first impression and hands-on with him.
Well, he is not excatly in the after-sales service, but in the tech dpt., but it is basically the same.
Best regards,
Thierry
Dear Thierry,
I have seen numerous prototypes of the Hy6, which is a very nice design, so nice in fact that I might well buy one, when it is shown to be mature. I have not so far handled a fully functional unit myself.
As for the latest Paris expo, yes, I did meet a very nice employee of Sinar, but only on the Hasselblad stand I believe this gentleman is the head of your after sales service, which now makes him the most important person in your company in my eyes.
I have been struggling for exactly one year now with a Leica M8 where body after body has collapsed and simply died on me; Leica is known for attention to quality. I have also had similar experiences with "new model" Canon EOS-1 bodies, and Canon is also a very good company. Because of this I am inclined not believe that a *digital* camera is ready for heavy use until it has been at least 6 months in final user hands.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146848\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry,
I really wish the Hy6 will be a success, and this as soon as possible. The more of them you get into user hands, the better. If it is shown to be reliable, and I can mount a Phase back on it, you can have my order too, I will be delighted to hand it to you personally In fact I have taken out a mount-change insurance for the back precisely in the hope that this will happen.
BTW, I owe you an apology, I dimly remember handling a waist-level finder camera at the expo, and manually focusing it with some difficulty; I assume this was a Hy6 but I think it was at the Hassleblad stand accompanying your colleague; it was not firing or doing AF for some reason (battery discharged ?).
Edmund
Dear Edmund,
You should have handled one during the Salon in Paris: my colleague Hans Peter told me that he met you! So it would have been easy to get a first impression and hands-on with him.
Well, he is not excatly in the after-sales service, but in the tech dpt., but it is basically the same.
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear TechTalk,
YES, that has always been so with the Sinarbacks. But i was thinking that you explain it always so "nicely" and clearly with your words, better then myself, that I would rather let you write this!
Best regards,
Thierry
Thierry,
The versatilty of an interchangeable mount on a digital back represents added value. It allows the user to decide what the back is mounted to, instead of the back deciding what it can or can't be mounted to.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146849\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Edmund,
that would be up to my colleague Hans Peter to answer here, if the battery was empty! But my guess is that you certainly remember if it was a Sinar Hy6 or not!
Best regards,
Thierry
Thierry,
BTW, I owe you an apology, I dimly remember handling a waist-level finder camera at the expo, and manually focusing it with some difficulty; I assume this was a Hy6 but I think it was at the Hassleblad stand accompanying your colleague; it was not firing or doing AF for some reason (battery discharged ?).
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thank you Thierry,
Regards
Tom
Dear Tom,
NOT the "Sinar Hy6 back: there is NO Sinar hy6 back existing: all our current back models do fit the Sinar Hy6 camera platform (with the exception of the SB 54 H yet).
BUT the digital backs which fit the Sinar Hy6 body DO ALL adapt to a p3/f3 (as well as all current MF bodies and view cameras) WITH the CORRESPONDING adapter.
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146847\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Edmund,
you certainly remember if it was a Sinar Hy6 or not!
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146857\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I really don't Your colleague and the Hassy guy and I had a really interesting conversation about some tech stuff in the latest Hassys, and I remember playing with a WLF - I have handled the Hy6 dummies quite often, so that in itself would not have been an event for me
The Hassies have an interesting focus-offset process which corrects for each lens-to-back distance and lens focus shift. The calibration for this focus offset is set at the factory by measuring the assembled body-back unit. It will be interesting to see whether the Hy6 also gets this feature in due course, for all I know it's there already.
Edmund
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The Hy6 can do this as well.
And the Sinar m can do it since the begining as well.
Best regards,
Thierry
The Hassies have an interesting focus-offset process which corrects for each lens-to-back distance and lens focus shift. The calibration for this focus offset is set at the factory by measuring the assembled body-back unit. It will be interesting to see whether the Hy6 also gets this feature in due course, for all I know it's there already.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146869\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]