Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Eurotographer on October 10, 2007, 04:56:17 pm
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Hassy announced a new H3DII39MS camera today, this will allow the photogrpaher to do multi shot on an H3D which will get them the ability to use the 28mm as well as all the lens corrections and ultra focus. In the same announcement they told about a new H2F, film only version of the H2 that will be 20% cheaper!! Oh, and they also announced that they are discontinuing the H2 affective immediately, so much for leaf, phase and Sinar having a platform!
Lewis
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Could you point me in the direction of this announcement? Is there a press release or something I have missed?
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Hassy announced a new H3DII39MS camera today, this will allow the photogrpaher to do multi shot on an H3D which will get them the ability to use the 28mm as well as all the lens corrections and ultra focus. In the same announcement they told about a new H2F, film only version of the H2 that will be 20% cheaper!! Oh, and they also announced that they are discontinuing the H2 affective immediately, so much for leaf, phase and Sinar having a platform!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145170\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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It smells like a...
It looks like a...
It sounds like a...
So it probably is a...
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It smells like a...
It looks like a...
It sounds like a...
So it probably is a...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145175\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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It smells like a...
It looks like a...
It sounds like a...
So it probably is a...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145175\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Duck??
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Hi
I just did a web search & found nothing about the new cameras, even on the Hasselblad web site. Could you tell us where this info came from.
Thanks Denis
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Lets see, joined yesterday, first post today that includes information that so far can't be substantiated. Okay, let me think about this .........
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This was posted on the Hasselblad Users group by the forum leader today:
Hi Guys
Hot off the press:
The H2 has been discontinued. There will be an H2F (film only) and
othe backs should work (but will need a cable)
'blad have finally announced the H3D39MS meaning multi-shot and the
28mm is now possible..
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Lets see, joined yesterday, first post today that includes information that so far can't be substantiated. Okay, let me think about this .........
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145197\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Okay, let me get both feet out of my mouth
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This was posted on the Hasselblad Users group by the forum leader today:
Hi Guys
Hot off the press:
The H2 has been discontinued. There will be an H2F (film only) and
othe backs should work (but will need a cable)
'blad have finally announced the H3D39MS meaning multi-shot and the
28mm is now possible..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145198\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Can someone point me to this forum please?
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Eurotographer and PhotoManGreg are not entirely incorrect in the the announcement details. However, this information is "hot off the wire", and does not always make it to the end-users very quickly.
I will provide more details shortly, however here are some initial announcement details:
Hasselblad H3D-IIMS (Multi-Shot) - obvious and long awaited addition the the H3D-Series system. Multi-shot capability is still limited to tethered operation, as back processing ability and CF card speeds are not there (yet).
Hasselblad H2F - official replacement for current H2, continuing with film-back functionality, as well as continuing the be an "open" platform for PhaseOne / Leaf / Sinar (and others) back users. Some features have been removed, and digital back sync functionality via cable. More details to come...
Hasselblad FlexColor 4.8.1 (Mac & Win) - see www.Hasselbladusa.com (http://www.hasselbladusa.com) - Incorporates new firmware for original H3D's ("series I"), H2D's, H1D's, etc, allowing for improved high-ISO capability, menu control via camera grip command dials, Drive / ISO button assignment, and a handful of custom options (see Hasselblad.com). Version 4.8.1 improves noise reduction capability on current and previous generation fff / 3FR files. It now offers synchronized exposure control within FlexColor, or via camera body, simultaneously (includes all Ixpress, CF, and H3D-Series).
Thats it for now.
Regards,
Jordan Miller
Lets see, joined yesterday, first post today that includes information that so far can't be substantiated. Okay, let me think about this .........
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145197\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hasselblad H2F - official replacement for current H2, continuing with film-back functionality, as well as continuing the be an "open" platform for PhaseOne / Leaf / Sinar (and others) back users. Some features have been removed, and digital back sync functionality via cable. More details to come...
Regards,
Jordan Miller
DTG (http://www.dtgweb.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145203\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is nonsense. HB downgrading their own camera to force people to the H3D. They are doing their best to piss off their customers. Functions removed and DB sync via cable?
And what about the name? H2Film?
My God, I'll better go to bed......
I'll tell you about my dreams...... Hasselblad making us feel we have the best and they know we pay A LOT for their products.....
Sad Hasselblad Sad. I'll really consider my options now.
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Hasselblad H2F - official replacement for current H2, continuing with film-back functionality, as well as continuing the be an "open" platform for PhaseOne / Leaf / Sinar (and others) back users. Some features have been removed, and digital back sync functionality via cable. More details to come...
Hi
As the above quote, does this mean the H2 is a better camera for digital backs of the third party ( Leaf, Sinar, phase ). Will this make the H2 more valuable now? At Photokina last year Hasselblad was going to drop the H2 & decided not to. Then again it is there business & they are going forward with the H3D systems.
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Hassy announced a new H3DII39MS camera today, this will allow the photogrpaher to do multi shot on an H3D which will get them the ability to use the 28mm as well as all the lens corrections and ultra focus. In the same announcement they told about a new H2F, film only version of the H2 that will be 20% cheaper!! Oh, and they also announced that they are discontinuing the H2 affective immediately, so much for leaf, phase and Sinar having a platform!
Lewis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145170\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Unless aired on CNN, it's not that bad
I am happy i decided to go with Mamiya, for how long? 'not sure' I hope at least 4 years.
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[span style=\'font-size:11pt;line-height:100%\']Almost forgot, what about the PHASE/LEAF 'H-Mount' Re-sale value in two weeks/months/years? [/span]
God, Help us all!
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As much as in my selfish way I am opposed to the way Hasselblad direct their business I have to say that upon deeper reflection on this subject I think that from business prospective they are making the wisest decission under the current market conditions.
My numbers are not substanciated but by knowing common productions ratios in various lines of businesses I can assume that on $7,000 body end-buyer cost the average OH/P to Hassy should be around $1,000.00. Digital Backs cameras production and marketing is a bit different. My uneducated guess will be that on $33,000.00 set Hassy can pocket 7-10 K. In reality what it means is that for every six pissed H1/H2 users who attach Leaf or P1 backs to Hassy camera , one photog converted to HD will pay the losses and bring home some more profits. No amount of our bitching can stop 15% of Leaf/P1 users to make the switch to HD once their existing platform disappears. It is a simple match in very rough waters. I would do the same to survive. It sucks but this is win or die war.
Disclaimer
Andre Napier the photographer is not responsible for the opinions of
Andre Napier the businessman.
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Please do not misunderstand, the H2F feature set has not been fully disclosed. More details are to come. It is my understanding that the H2F will cost less than the currently available H2, with some minor changes to the feature set.
Hasselblad also appears to be committed to supporting film, now that the H3D-II does not operate with a film back (unlike the original H3D). In this case, the H2/F is the the logical solution.
It is not clear as to whether or not the H2F is "a better camera" than the current H2. Once the H2F is available, I will assume more details will become available regarding 3rd party features and compatibility.
Regards,
Jordan Miller
Hasselblad H2F - official replacement for current H2, continuing with film-back functionality, as well as continuing the be an "open" platform for PhaseOne / Leaf / Sinar (and others) back users. Some features have been removed, and digital back sync functionality via cable. More details to come...
Hi
As the above quote, does this mean the H2 is a better camera for digital backs of the third party ( Leaf, Sinar, phase ). Will this make the H2 more valuable now? At Photokina last year Hasselblad was going to drop the H2 & decided not to. Then again it is there business & they are going forward with the H3D systems.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145216\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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not sure why this comes as a surprise to anyone...they announced thie same thing a year ago...and reversed it....since then everything new for the system seems to only work on the H3D....so anyone who bought a H2 in the last year has no excuses....hey contax died and that started a frenzy in the second hand market
the H3F announcement is very obviously a reaction to the Hy6....and everybody was laughing about the Hy6 being a film camera as well.....i don't see the point in taking something away from an existing product....at all...but hey....will the new lenses work on the H3F? will the next lenses even be full (film) frame lenses? but i guess H2 buyers already know the answer to that one....
all hasselblad really has to do is drop their prices by 30% and watch the rest of the market eat itself...then announce whatever you like and don't worry about backward compatibility....oops they already did that...without the price drop!
it will still work out for them....they have "mega focus"....
again i don't understand what the whining is about....if you love the H camera, just get the integrated solution! yes, i personally believe the phase backs are better, but i have to live with the fact that i can't put my phase back on a rollei....the hass backs are not bad in any way and the integrated system absolutely has advantages....i am sure if i liked the H camera i could totally live with the H back attached to it....
the money is made with the hobby shooters with too much money...they don't want options and "older" "outdated"...when they step up from their 1DSmkIII to bring a new toy to their safari they want it to be shiny, new and tech heavy....and the H3D will deliver....is there a chance that there might be a 2% better file out there, a 2% better lens out there? maybe, who cares....
same actually goes for a pro who (unlike the pros in here) is NOT a gadget freak and just needs a camera that works, is supported by the next rental house and that shuts the AD up in terms of tech stats....
so the future looks great for hasselblad...and they are doing a great job letting everybody else fight for the crumbs....locking them out here, discontinuing there.....
as a camera and system, the Hy6 is a much better choice, but the uncertainty and in the end the options make it a non competitor....
how long will hass sell the CF backs?
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Hah!
They took an advanced camera like the H series, made it have electronic communication with digital backs, nice AF, and all these digital features, then they turn it into the H2F, which requires a CABLE to use Leaf/Phase backs! Hilarious.
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Hah!
They took an advanced camera like the H series, made it have electronic communication with digital backs, nice AF, and all these digital features, then they turn it into the H2F, which requires a CABLE to use Leaf/Phase backs! Hilarious.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145239\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It appears that Hasselblad is trying to follow in the footsteps of Rollei/Sinar/Leaf in providing a more limited form of "open" platform for other digital backs than the current H2. The new body will not permit direct electronic communication between the back and the camera's electronics. You need to use a cable to operate them together, with only a limited form of communication. In form, open, but a cable connection may very well be a non-starter for many. This appears to be the path that the Rolleiflex/Sinar/Leaf Hy6 is following. It really seems to be a way to kill off the H2 without announcing it as such, and may give Hasselblad some cover in the marketplace.
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allowing for improved high-ISO capability, [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145203\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not in FlexColor 4.8.1, I believe in the next version (Phocus). I downloaded the software today, and I am in the processing of trying all the new features.
In order to use the thumbwheels to control digital menu options, I had to go to one of the custom settings on my H3D digital back to make the wheels ACTIVE first.
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Hah!
They took an advanced camera like the H series, made it have electronic communication with digital backs, nice AF, and all these digital features, then they turn it into the H2F, which requires a CABLE to use Leaf/Phase backs! Hilarious.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145239\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Other than triggering the back, which can be done with a simple sync cable, what communication do Leaf or Phase One backs have with the H1/H2?
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they same actually goes for a pro who (unlike the pros in here) is NOT a gadget freak and just needs a camera that works, is supported by the next rental house and that shuts the AD up in terms of tech stats....[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145232\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You haven't taken any notice of the announcement today of the multi-shot addition to the H3D.
Do you think there's ever any value in having full RGB data for each pixel? Or is 1/3 real data and 2/3 software interpolation always just as good for any real "pro" photographer's satisfaction and desire for image quality.
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I could use multishot!
The color polution of single shot can be downright horrible. It also takes care of color moire. My next upgrade would have been from CF39 to CF39MS but I am wondering whether that is a good choice at this moment. I am wondering as well whether the CF line will be the next to be killed.
Maybe it is time to start looking in the Sinar camp.
Maybe these things are a good business decision from the POV of Hasselblad but as an user I am not amused.
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About a week ago I saw a Hasselblad presentation made by Hasselblad employee from Denmark. In this brief Hasselblad presentation they estimate or state that the High End digital market is about 100.000 units (read dSLRs, which ones are not described).
During the past few years the sales of medium format cameras (total market) like 500 series and including H1 and H2 and other medium format cameras has diminishued from about 60.000 units to only a few thousands in 2006. Hasselblad sees this as the major reason to manufacture only dSLRs.
Anyway I don't quite follow their logic but their presentation was enlightening. The presentation also featured information on their sales. It was clear that the H3D is their most wanted product and about 80% of total sales, probably excluding lenses and accessories but the presentation doesn't go into details. Their turnover in 2006 was about 16 million euros with an expected growth of 18% for 2007. But ofcourse this is from their brief presentation and now from me so there is a chance I got something wrong but this is how I recall it. According to this the sales of medium format digital cameras are in thousands rather than in tens where Hasselblad wants to take it.
Besides customer service and to keep existing customers happy are obviously marketing tools of a gone era even how much we would wish otherwise. Today profit is the only thing that anybody cares and maybe Hasselblad is not making enough profits out of H2 users/sales. Once we, H1 and H2 users, have bought their lenses and bodies our profit revenues are gone. H3D customers on the otherhand will bring +10.000 or so every other year when upgrading. With such a small market maybe this is the only way. Maybe we should be thank full that they still even allow us to buy H2F even if it is with a cable.
Patrik
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Lets see, joined yesterday, first post today that includes information that so far can't be substantiated. Okay, let me think about this .........
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145197\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I guess next time I post something I'll be sure to include two letters of reference, a paystub, and submit myself to a polygraph test.....
I guess you are all so used to reading lies here that you can't trust anyone!
A little bit of advice from someone who has been there and seen that, get out from behind your computers, go to your local dealer, look at the new gear from all the manufacturers, and talk to the reps, you will get good information and the chance to see it yourself! A forum is a great place to ask questions, but as you all see, the answers vary so much from person to person that the only way to make an informed decision is to get out there and see it and use it yourself.
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A little bit of advice from someone who has been there and seen that, get out from behind your computers, go to your local dealer, look at the new gear from all the manufacturers, and talk to the reps, you will get good information and the chance to see it yourself! A forum is a great place to ask questions, but as you all see, the answers vary so much from person to person that the only way to make an informed decision is to get out there and see it and use it yourself.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145333\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Here, Here. Less than a week (by @ 3:hrs) Photoplus Expo opens with Hasselblad Studio & their booths. Just ask them all the questions & see the products untill then it is just guesstimate?
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As much as in my selfish way I am opposed to the way Hasselblad direct their business I have to say that upon deeper reflection on this subject I think that from business prospective they are making the wisest decission under the current market conditions.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145222\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, it could work. Look at IBM--they initially captured and essentially owned 90+% of the personal computer market by creating an "open standard" that anybody could build to. Then they decided that they were tired of other companies leeching off of what they'd created, so they introduced a new series, the PS/2, that closed the architecture by using a proprietary bus, the Microchannel Architecture (MCA), in place of the standard "ISA" bus they'd used on earlier models. By doing this, they forced everyone into their proprietary architecture, and recaptured 100% of the market.
Edit: Oops, a Google search reveals that what I just described are projections from the IBM marketing plan as it existed prior to the PS/2 introduction. In more recent news, it seems that IBM has sold off the remants of their PC business to some Chinese company I never heard of...
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Other than triggering the back, which can be done with a simple sync cable, what communication do Leaf or Phase One backs have with the H1/H2?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145266\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
With Phase and H2 you can view the histogram on the camera lcd screen, the camera will not fire until the back is ready, remaining shots show on lcd screen, etc.
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Edit: Oops, a Google search reveals that what I just described are projections from the IBM marketing plan as it existed prior to the PS/2 introduction. In more recent news, it seems that IBM has sold off the remants of their PC business to some Chinese company I never heard of...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145554\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In more recent medium-format news, it seems that following the death of Bronica, Contax, and Fuji medium format cameras–Mamiya sold off their camera/optical division to a Japanese IT company that I never heard of, for the grand sum of 100 million Yen (about $850,000 U.S. dollars) plus an undisclosed amount of debt, in order to focus on the part of Mamiya that was profitable (fishing rods, golf club shafts and pachinko machines).
Less than a million dollars in cash to buy Mamiya last year. I wonder what conclusion that leads you to regarding the business model of making medium-format cameras and lenses on which to mount third-party backs.
Those still alive are trying very hard to package and sell integrated systems from what I've seen.
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Other than triggering the back, which can be done with a simple sync cable, what communication do Leaf or Phase One backs have with the H1/H2?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145266\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
With Phase and H2 you can view the histogram on the camera lcd screen, the camera will not fire until the back is ready, remaining shots show on lcd screen, etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145566\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for your reply. Good information. I asked the question because I didn't know and a quick search didn't result in any answers. Can you fill me in on the etc.? I'd like to know just how different using a sync cable for triggering with the H2F is compared to using an H1/H2.
Thanks again for the information.
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Well, it could work. Look at IBM--they initially captured and essentially owned 90+% of the personal computer market by creating an "open standard" that anybody could build to. Then they decided that they were tired of other companies leeching off of what they'd created, so they introduced a new series, the PS/2, that closed the architecture by using a proprietary bus, the Microchannel Architecture (MCA), in place of the standard "ISA" bus they'd used on earlier models. By doing this, they forced everyone into their proprietary architecture, and recaptured 100% of the market.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145554\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Apple, on the other hand, focused on a proprietary operating system integrated with unique hardware design, then revolutionized the digital music market that integrated the music player with music download and captured 70% of that market. Apple has been on a roll with soaring profits and increasing market share.
I think you make a good point with your post here, integration is where the future lies. Thanks for the spotlight on the future!
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Since you quoted 3/4th's of my post out of context, I would like to point out that that post was intended to be satire that was dripping with sarcasm.
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Since you quoted 3/4th's of my post out of context, I would like to point out that that post was intended to be satire that was dripping with sarcasm.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145638\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, I know. I got it. I just thought that I'd take my turn and let the market decide.
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Hasselblad H2F - official replacement for current H2, continuing with film-back functionality, as well as continuing the be an "open" platform for PhaseOne / Leaf / Sinar (and others) back users. Some features have been removed, and digital back sync functionality via cable. More details to come...
Hi
As the above quote, does this mean the H2 is a better camera for digital backs of the third party ( Leaf, Sinar, phase ). Will this make the H2 more valuable now? At Photokina last year Hasselblad was going to drop the H2 & decided not to. Then again it is there business & they are going forward with the H3D systems.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145216\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
it will work with P45 ??