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Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Josh-H on October 10, 2007, 08:45:09 am

Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Josh-H on October 10, 2007, 08:45:09 am
Anyone tried it yet?
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: John R Smith on October 11, 2007, 03:30:42 am
Read about it here -

My Review (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19998)

John
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Josh-H on October 11, 2007, 07:18:59 am
Quote
Read about it here -

My Review (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19998)

John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you - that was a great write up.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: thierryd on October 11, 2007, 09:39:38 am
Quote
Anyone tried it yet?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145080\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I bought a box with 10 A4.
I have a Z3000. Enough for the calibration, but too small for the profile. I used Ilford profile and I made a profile with PrintFixPro too.
I'm note sure I used the best calibration parameters and I didn't had enough paper to try different calibration.
I used the black and white test print from Keith Cooper. The Ilford and PrintFixPro profile were about the same (PrintFixPro is a bit warmer). Not bad, but too much ink in the dark areas. I just change a bit the PrintFixPro profile and I have something quiet good.
I like the feeling you have when you touch the paper. Does it really look like an old silver halide paper, at least you have the feeling when you touch the paper.  
I made 2 prints with real black and white photographs. Both of them had a very light gray as background. Looking carefully, on an angle I can notice some vertical marks. I don't know if it's the ink or the gloss, and I didn't have any longer paper to make an other test.  
Writing my post with the print next to me, I realize I have marks (obviously gloss) on the back of the print. Time to clean the printer.

A strange thing to notice, I'm very used to print A4 with the Z3100 and I don't have trouble usually. But with this paper it's really a pain in the ass. I must do 6 or 7 try before succeeding in the loading process.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: thierryd on October 16, 2007, 10:18:22 am
I find 5 more A4 sheets.

- I change the paper thickness from normal to thick and I don't have any longer trouble with the loading process. (That was my mistake, it's a 310g paper)
- I change the drying time to "extended"
No more glossy marks on the front and the back of the print.
- I print to 600 and 1200 dpi with this trouble:
(see photo 1)
- Then I check the "more passes" options (only with 1200 dpi) and it's perfect:
(see photo 2)
- Because it could be a printhead trouble if I need this option, I do a diagnostic test on Ilford Gold paper, but the print head is fine.

So very good results on Ilford Gold paper but  drying time "extended" and "more passes"

Photo1 [attachment=3572:attachment]
Photo2 [attachment=3573:attachment]
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: rdonson on October 16, 2007, 10:49:33 am
Thierry,

Thanks for including the photos.  That tells me a lot about the surface of the Ilford paper.  Its not a smooth as I thought it would be.

I wish the reviews of the various papers included shots like that as well.  It would be much easier then to decide on which ones to test.

I'm still disappointed that everyone has reported that the Harman marks up so easily on the Z3100.  I was hoping to test that but now I won't waste my time and money.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: dkeyes on December 03, 2007, 02:29:18 am
Tried the Ilford Gold Silk on my z3100, was excited to try because it has a nice, fairly smooth surface. Looks like a satin finish with a slight texture similar to Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl if that makes sense. The gamut and dmax also seem similar between these two papers. What I don't like is that the ink sits right on top and the gloss ink soaks right in. In fact, it's barely perceptible where the gloss overprints the image into the white of the paper. Because of this, the gloss differential is unnacceptable to me. In fact, it's the worst paper for gloss differential I've tried. I also tried without the gloss (just to be sure) and was worse, with added bronzing.

I hope this isn't a trend for Bayarta papers performance on the z3100, as I like how these papers look. Haven't tried the Harmon or Hahnemuhle yet.

- Doug
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Christopher on December 03, 2007, 04:19:44 am
Quote
Tried the Ilford Gold Silk on my z3100, was excited to try because it has a nice, fairly smooth surface. Looks like a satin finish with a slight texture similar to Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl if that makes sense. The gamut and dmax also seem similar between these two papers. What I don't like is that the ink sits right on top and the gloss ink soaks right in. In fact, it's barely perceptible where the gloss overprints the image into the white of the paper. Because of this, the gloss differential is unnacceptable to me. In fact, it's the worst paper for gloss differential I've tried. I also tried without the gloss (just to be sure) and was worse, with added bronzing.

I hope this isn't a trend for Bayarta papers performance on the z3100, as I like how these papers look. Haven't tried the Harmon or Hahnemuhle yet.

- Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157821\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This all is exactly the reaseon why I was so happy to sell that stupid z3100 printer
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: thierryd on December 03, 2007, 08:47:16 am
Quote
What I don't like is that the ink sits right on top and the gloss ink soaks right in. In fact, it's barely perceptible where the gloss overprints the image into the white of the paper. Because of this, the gloss differential is unnacceptable to me.
Have you seen so the called "baryta" papers on other printers ? Until now all the prints I saw on those papers looked as traditional fiber paper if you were looking at the back of the print or if you were looking at the feeling when you were touching the papers. But the gloss was something new, neither traditional paper, neither digital paper. And the most disturbing look to my eyes was Harman FB prints made on an Epson I have seen in a photoshow. (And the Innova was strange too.) It's like pearl with a glossy look.
But everyone around me was happy and convinced it was like traditional fiber paper. Long time I made baryta prints, and prints were different between paper and chemical brands, but I can't remember baryta prints which had such aspect.
So just look at these papers like something new and not like "baryta like" papers. You like them or you don't. Choice is one of the great thing of the digital area.
Quote
This all is exactly the reaseon why I was so happy to sell that stupid z3100 printer smile.gif
But I'm not convinced it has something to do with the printer.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: TylerB on December 03, 2007, 12:53:55 pm
I've tried samples of all these new papers, and I like this one best so far.
There are a lot of silver prints lying around here too, and it's surface is closest to Portriga of any of them. It is also not blue.
The others have their attributes as well, but the B&W fanatics around here seem to gravitate towards the Ilford. All of the comments about the Harman have been that though it is impressive, it looks like a gloss RC paper.
They have some 5 sheet packages, I'd recommend trying it for yourself.
The new F types have all been through here, I don't think there is an offering I haven't yet seen... perhaps the Moab.
Seeing Doug's informative post, I have to say my tests have all been on an Epson.
Tyler
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on December 03, 2007, 02:26:59 pm
Quote
I've tried samples of all these new papers, and I like this one best so far.
There are a lot of silver prints lying around here too, and it's surface is closest to Portriga of any of them. It is also not blue.
The others have their attributes as well, but the B&W fanatics around here seem to gravitate towards the Ilford. All of the comments about the Harman have been that though it is impressive, it looks like a gloss RC paper.
They have some 5 sheet packages, I'd recommend trying it for yourself.
The new F types have all been through here, I don't think there is an offering I haven't yet seen... perhaps the Moab.
Seeing Doug's informative post, I have to say my tests have all been on an Epson.
Tyler
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=157954\")

Tyler,

I think you have not seen the Sihl Professional Photo Baryt 290 gsm which I like, semi matte and a bit warm. Then there is the Fuji Fine Art Museum Baryte Paper 300 sqm that is more white and glossier but curls like the Innova Type F gloss. Of the Fuji I only have a 7x7 cm sample, trying to get proof sheets.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: TylerB on December 03, 2007, 03:29:17 pm
Thanks Ernst, I'll look for them. If you have tried the Ilford, did you see the problems Doug did? You both have the same printer, right?
I don't want to be spouting off about it if there are problems...

In fact, I have no HP experience, and curious about how all these papers look on HP.
Tyler
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on December 03, 2007, 04:01:58 pm
Quote
Thanks Ernst, I'll look for them. If you have tried the Ilford, did you see the problems Doug did? You both have the same printer, right?
I don't want to be spouting off about it if there are problems...

In fact, I have no HP experience, and curious about how all these papers look on HP.
Tyler
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=157988\")


I still have to get the Hahnemuhle range of fibers but I rather wait till I can get all of them and I have to get the Ilford range as well.


Ernst Dinkla

try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: dkeyes on December 07, 2007, 03:49:56 am
Quote
This all is exactly the reaseon why I was so happy to sell that stupid z3100 printer
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No printer will work with every paper. I think the paper manufacturers are going to have to design papers for specific printers to get optimal performance, like Hahnemuhle has done for HP. Up until this year, most professional photo papers were probably made with Epson in mind, thus many more have performed well on Epson printers than HP (or Canon for that matter). I imagine it's much harder to make a good paper that works on all three printers (canon, epson, hp).

When it comes to glossy or satin/pearl papers (fiber or otherwise) there are only a few papers that work great for each printer out there right now. (at least that's my experience with HP and Epson)
My definition of great is no gloss differential, bronzing or metamerism; with large color gamut and great blacks. Not to mention on a neutral white base with a smooth surface. (no curling, heavy weight and durable are nice too). Oh yea, 44" rolls.

- Doug
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Hendrik on December 07, 2007, 04:07:12 am
I made a first print on a R2400 and profiles from Ilford. I still have to inspect more closely and haven't decided yet.

I compared against the Innova Fibaprint Ultra Smooth Gloss 285gsm. The surface of the Ilford is more like their pearl paper. It's smooth and flat. The Innova paper has more texture, neutral white and (very subjective) looks more high class. Both are very good, although the Ilford profile is not neutral, so I have to make profiles if I want to use it.

... at this moment I lean to the Innova paper.

Some mention the problems with gloss differential, but if you spray the surface with a product like PremierArt Print Shield (http://www.inkjetart.com/premier/print_shield.html), would it not improve this aspect?
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Fred Ragland on December 07, 2007, 10:24:50 am
Quote
Tyler,

I think you have not seen the Sihl Professional Photo Baryt 290 gsm which I like, semi matte and a bit warm...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157979\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Any idea of where to get this in the U.S.?

Thanks,

Fred
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: deanwork on December 22, 2007, 02:27:10 pm
Because of the nature of the totally different ( and innovative) glop channel on the Z3100 it is critical that the amount of glop be linearized specifically for that emulsion. Hp has their basic set up standard for their Satin and Gloss rc papers that are even different than Epson rc emulsions and perform perfectly with the Z without any spraying needed. The Ilford Gold is totally a new animal. And, I agree, it was surely created with Epson K3 in mind because that is major market at this point in time, especially for desktop units, but also for mid sized and large format models.

john



Quote
No printer will work with every paper. I think the paper manufacturers are going to have to design papers for specific printers to get optimal performance, like Hahnemuhle has done for HP. Up until this year, most professional photo papers were probably made with Epson in mind, thus many more have performed well on Epson printers than HP (or Canon for that matter). I imagine it's much harder to make a good paper that works on all three printers (canon, epson, hp).

When it comes to glossy or satin/pearl papers (fiber or otherwise) there are only a few papers that work great for each printer out there right now. (at least that's my experience with HP and Epson)
My definition of great is no gloss differential, bronzing or metamerism; with large color gamut and great blacks. Not to mention on a neutral white base with a smooth surface. (no curling, heavy weight and durable are nice too). Oh yea, 44" rolls.

- Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=158877\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: kers on December 22, 2007, 03:22:11 pm
Quote
This all is exactly the reaseon why I was so happy to sell that stupid z3100 printer
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=157837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
On the Z3100 Epson exhibion fibre  works very well on the z3100 with the gloss enhancer... almost perfect-no gloss differential to worry about and a very rich gamut. I believe even no rollermarks!
A very nice paper only unlucky - you cannot by it in rolls and very expensive
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Ernst Dinkla on December 23, 2007, 10:52:45 am
Quote
Any idea of where to get this in the U.S.?

Thanks,

Fred
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=158938\")


[a href=\"http://www.sihlusa.com/home/Dealer-locator.htm]http://www.sihlusa.com/home/Dealer-locator.htm[/url]

specs of the baryta paper:
http://www.sihl.com/content/Products.aspx?...ID=42&FamID=214 (http://www.sihl.com/content/Products.aspx?Nid=34&Aid=177&ID=102&ArID=5&GrpID=16&CatID=42&FamID=214)


Ernst Dinkla

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Fred Ragland on December 24, 2007, 11:05:26 am
Quote
http://www.sihlusa.com/home/Dealer-locator.htm (http://www.sihlusa.com/home/Dealer-locator.htm)

specs of the baryta paper:
http://www.sihl.com/content/Products.aspx?...ID=42&FamID=214 (http://www.sihl.com/content/Products.aspx?Nid=34&Aid=177&ID=102&ArID=5&GrpID=16&CatID=42&FamID=214)
Ernst Dinkla

try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162684\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you Ernst.

Before sending my original message, I checked with Sihl USA and the salesman said he didn't show it listed in his catalogue.  I'll try again after they reopen following the holidays.

Best wishes,

Fred
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: KeithR on December 24, 2007, 05:10:23 pm
Quote
Thank you Ernst.

Before sending my original message, I checked with Sihl USA and the salesman said he didn't show it listed in his catalogue.  I'll try again after they reopen following the holidays.

Best wishes,

Fred
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=162871\")

Check B&H. I did a search on their site and found it. Not all sizes in stock, but they do list it.
[a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?shs=ilford+gold+silk+fibre&ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...earch&Q=*&bhs=t[/url]
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Fred Ragland on December 24, 2007, 05:30:25 pm
Quote
Check B&H. I did a search on their site and found it. Not all sizes in stock, but they do list it.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...earch&Q=*&bhs=t (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?shs=ilford+gold+silk+fibre&ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162938\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]Thanks Keith. The thread opened up to include Sihl Professional Photo Baryt after Ernst commented on it.  That's what I'm looking for.

Best wishes,

Fred
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: USA_Stewart on December 26, 2007, 07:48:11 pm
Quote
On the Z3100 Epson exhibion fibre  works very well on the z3100 with the gloss enhancer... almost perfect-no gloss differential to worry about and a very rich gamut. I believe even no rollermarks!
A very nice paper only unlucky - you cannot by it in rolls and very expensive
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162531\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Kers,

What calibration settings did you use when printing the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper on the HP Z3100?

-Stewart
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: bowa on December 27, 2007, 08:01:58 pm
This paper is STILL toooo glossy for me.

I long for the old silver papers like wet darkroom Gallerie or even better, EMACS Glossy when air dried.

Ilford Gold still seems to be an RC paper with a flat, glossy surface whenever you look at it from a few degrees angle.

It seems to me as if all semigloss papers are essentially the same. The give wonderful colors and deep DMAX, but they still give me a feeling of looking through a reflecting and FLATTENING window glass of some kind.

Matte papers are much worse considering 'pop' and DMAX, but the give a sense of DEPTH that I have not seen yet in a semigloss paper.

Give me Epson Velvet Fine Art with at smoother surface and a deeper DMAX, but without the plastic membrane or glossy 'window' that plagues the current semigloss papers!

BR / Bo
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: kers on December 28, 2007, 11:53:52 am
Quote
Kers,

What calibration settings did you use when printing the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper on the HP Z3100?

-Stewart
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163280\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I did not have enough paper to make a profile so I used for a small test the profile I had from the ifford Gold silk paper and their paper settings-  Fine Art Pearl Paper (more ink)- and the provided ICC for the z3100- it looked allright.  
update: the paper has some gloos differential in colour prints and almost none in black and white.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Chris_T on December 29, 2007, 09:32:34 am
Quote
Give me Epson Velvet Fine Art with at smoother surface and a deeper DMAX, but without the plastic membrane or glossy 'window' that plagues the current semigloss papers!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=163477\")

Amen! Few reviews touched upon the non-matte papers' reflective surface. Perhaps that's why few users are aware of it, or bothered by it.

[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21302&st=0&p=157244&#entry157244]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....44&#entry157244[/url]

If the manufacturers are not hearing from the masses, they sure won't produce such a paper, even if it is possible.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: USA_Stewart on December 31, 2007, 12:30:04 am
Quote
(Regarding Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper) I did not have enough paper to make a profile so I used for a small test the profile I had from the ifford Gold silk paper and their paper settings-  Fine Art Pearl Paper (more ink)- and the provided ICC for the z3100- it looked allright. 
update: the paper has some gloos differential in colour prints and almost none in black and white.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=163608\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Kers,

Since my last post, I have experimented more with printing Epson Exhibition Fiber paper on the HPZ3100 printer. I have eliminated the roller marks I was getting during calibration. My final prints look beautiful on this paper.

Here's what I have done because EEF is not documented on the Z3100 printer:
(I am using Firmware 6008, HP Utility 3.1, and Driver 5.1)

In the HP Print Monitor choose "manage papers."
Click on the plus sign. This brings up the "Add custom paper" dialogue box.
Type in "Epson Exhibition Fiber". Then click on "Paper Type."
Select "Fine Art Material" and under that select "Fine Art Pearl (more ink)".
Then click on "Change Printing Properties" and under Dry Time select "Extended".
Note that when I calibrated the paper with these settings I did get some roller marks on the calibration sheet. However, I then profiled the paper with "Gloss Enhancer" off. I printed out of Lightroom and selected "Best Quality", "GE OFF", "More Passes", and "Application managed color."
The resulting prints are excellent with NO roller marks. There seems to be no need for the gloss enhancer with this paper. The paper looks very much like an air dried fiber based print. Some may think it has a little more shine than they are use to, but when I was fiber printing, I learned from photographer Ruth Bernhard that you could steam fiber based prints to bring out more shine if they dried too dull. She said she steamed many of her prints. These EEF prints look to me like fiber based, air dried prints that have been steamed. They are quite beautiful.

If you or anyone else have done something different and had good results, please let me know.

-Stewart
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Colorwave on January 01, 2008, 02:20:08 am
Quote
Check B&H. I did a search on their site and found it. Not all sizes in stock, but they do list it.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...earch&Q=*&bhs=t (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?shs=ilford+gold+silk+fibre&ci=0&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=RootPage.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=162938\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Has anybody managed to find the Sihl paper Ernst mentioned in the US in roll form?  All B&H carries is 13"x19".  Sihl never replied to my request for a US dealer, and seems to focus almost exclusively in signage media vs. fine art in our market.
-Ron H.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: deanwork on January 05, 2008, 01:54:35 pm
Stewart,

This method of eliminating the roller marks still working for ya, with the gloss enhancer channel turned off? I am very interested in using the Ilford Gold this way. The Epson is way too expensive.

John

PS- I visited Ruth Bernhard in her studio in San Francisco 1978 and  bought one of those prints for $60.00. Man if I had only bought a dozen of the nudes back then! She was using Portriga Rapid and Brovira at that time. That is when I started using Portriga with Benzatriazole restrainer in the developer, and toned in Selenium after seeing her prints. That was before Ilford Gallery came out. I know what you are talking about, but didn't know that was how she got her Portriga papers to shine more. Interesting. You learn something every day.





Quote
Kers,

Since my last post, I have experimented more with printing Epson Exhibition Fiber paper on the HPZ3100 printer. I have eliminated the roller marks I was getting during calibration. My final prints look beautiful on this paper.

Here's what I have done because EEF is not documented on the Z3100 printer:
(I am using Firmware 6008, HP Utility 3.1, and Driver 5.1)

In the HP Print Monitor choose "manage papers."
Click on the plus sign. This brings up the "Add custom paper" dialogue box.
Type in "Epson Exhibition Fiber". Then click on "Paper Type."
Select "Fine Art Material" and under that select "Fine Art Pearl (more ink)".
Then click on "Change Printing Properties" and under Dry Time select "Extended".
Note that when I calibrated the paper with these settings I did get some roller marks on the calibration sheet. However, I then profiled the paper with "Gloss Enhancer" off. I printed out of Lightroom and selected "Best Quality", "GE OFF", "More Passes", and "Application managed color."
The resulting prints are excellent with NO roller marks. There seems to be no need for the gloss enhancer with this paper. The paper looks very much like an air dried fiber based print. Some may think it has a little more shine than they are use to, but when I was fiber printing, I learned from photographer Ruth Bernhard that you could steam fiber based prints to bring out more shine if they dried too dull. She said she steamed many of her prints. These EEF prints look to me like fiber based, air dried prints that have been steamed. They are quite beautiful.

If you or anyone else have done something different and had good results, please let me know.

-Stewart
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164155\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: TylerB on January 05, 2008, 06:01:28 pm
Quote
Stewart,

...

PS- I visited Ruth Bernhard in her studio in San Francisco 1978 and  bought one of those prints for $60.00. Man if I had only bought a dozen of the nudes back then! She was using Portriga Rapid and Brovira at that time. That is when I started using Portriga with Benzatriazole restrainer in the developer, and toned in Selenium after seeing her prints. That was before Ilford Gallery came out. I know what you are talking about, but didn't know that was how she got her Portriga papers to shine more. Interesting. You learn something every day.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

OT, this-
I had come to the same combination of materials via different mentors, and had noticed the gloss or lack of it was uneven in the prints. So, after squeegying and laying out on the racks, I'd hit the lot of them with a hair dryer, you could watch the gloss sheen rise very quickly, then let them dry the rest of the way on their own.
When she looked over my prints at a workshop, she imediately told me exactly what I was using, including the additives, and she as right. It's a beautiful and unique look. One of my favorite teachers, few left on the planet.
Tyler
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: thierryd on January 06, 2008, 11:22:36 am
Quote
Stewart,

This method of eliminating the roller marks still working for ya, with the gloss enhancer channel turned off? I am very interested in using the Ilford Gold this way. The Epson is way too expensive.

John

I'm using the Ilford Gold on sheet and roll with gloss enhancer and without roller mark, until now, on Z3100 with the same selections than Steward.
Dry Time select "Extended".
 "Best Quality", "GE ON", "More Passes", and "Application managed color."
I printed many A4, a few A3 but anything bigger until now.
There is cotton gloves inside the roll box, I use them for loading and unloading the roll,  and I'm very cautious during 24h for fingerprint on the prints.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: TylerB on January 06, 2008, 02:16:52 pm
Quote
This paper is STILL toooo glossy for me.

I long for the old silver papers like wet darkroom Gallerie or even better, EMACS Glossy when air dried.

Ilford Gold still seems to be an RC paper with a flat, glossy surface whenever you look at it from a few degrees angle.

It seems to me as if all semigloss papers are essentially the same. The give wonderful colors and deep DMAX, but they still give me a feeling of looking through a reflecting and FLATTENING window glass of some kind.

Matte papers are much worse considering 'pop' and DMAX, but the give a sense of DEPTH that I have not seen yet in a semigloss paper.

Give me Epson Velvet Fine Art with at smoother surface and a deeper DMAX, but without the plastic membrane or glossy 'window' that plagues the current semigloss papers!

BR / Bo
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I'm sure the last thing you'd want to hear is yet another paper recommendation, I've certainly spent way too much time testing all these new offerings, and still turning back to the beauty and richness of the coated fine art papers for my personal work.
However, if the Ilford is still a bit too glossy for you, you might take a look at FibaPrint F-Type White Semi-Matte, in many ways it's the closest to some silver prints I have over the years and deserves more attention. The other thing I'm much more sensitive to now with that kind of comparison- there was actually more variety in those surfaces than we may remember.
My old Portriga prints have a very different surface then my old PAL prints, both lovely.
Tyler
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: deanwork on January 06, 2008, 02:45:44 pm
Well that is exactly where I am right now. The Innova Semi-Matte (Satin) is to me the best surface of all these papers and I love it's gamut and sharpness. However...the damn base is just too blue. We've talked about that. The Ilford Gold has a nice surface but a little too glossy as stated, more like rc but the gamut is killer and the sharpness amazing. I dare say though that most of my clients would not know the difference between the Gold and the thick HP Satin rc for instance even when held in ones hands. Behind glass, you are loosing any difference completely.

I think the Innova and Silver Rag are different, they actually feel and look like fiber papers. The texture of Silver Rag and Hahnemuhle Pearl are a bit strange, the Innova is too blue ( put a rag matte around it and see what I am talking about, and that is just way too much oba content for long term dependability in my view), the Ilford is a tad too slick. Man we're a hard bunch to please! Heaven help me maybe I'll have to try the Epson fiber.

Right now I'm leaning toward the Ilford Gold, because of the outstanding gamut ,  look, who is going to pay that much for the others. I simply can't afford it. They are almost twice the price. I  can't stock all these things and once you start with clients they want to continue with your choice for shows and editions. And, it isn't an easy choice because they keep moving the goal post on us.

john









Quote
I'm sure the last thing you'd want to hear is yet another paper recommendation, I've certainly spent way too much time testing all these new offerings, and still turning back to the beauty and richness of the coated fine art papers for my personal work.
However, if the Ilford is still a bit too glossy for you, you might take a look at FibaPrint F-Type White Semi-Matte, in many ways it's the closest to some silver prints I have over the years and deserves more attention. The other thing I'm much more sensitive to now with that kind of comparison- there was actually more variety in those surfaces than we may remember.
My old Portriga prints have a very different surface then my old PAL prints, both lovely.
Tyler
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Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: TylerB on January 06, 2008, 05:43:20 pm
Quote
...Heaven help me maybe I'll have to try the Epson fiber.

...

john
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I don't want to diminish anyone's enthusiasm for this paper, but it really is the F Type Ultrasmooth just a hair thicker.
It measures identically, values look identical, the surface is identical, gloss differential and bronzing are identical.
It's great if the increased thickness makes it more desirable to some users, but in your case, you saw the Innova, so you've seen the Epson. Nice paper.
Tyler
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Kenneth Sky on January 06, 2008, 09:04:35 pm
Info for Canucks: It's here but not at the retailers yet. Apparently it arrived in early Dec. but retailers were reluctant to stock it during the Xmas rush. Retailers in the Toronto area are now ordering it from the distributor. The distributor says there is a difference with Ilford in that the baryta is not a surface coat but mixed in with the fibres.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: deanwork on January 06, 2008, 09:14:45 pm
Tyler,

I used the Innova US Gloss and liked it. It's colder isn't it? Or do they have a warmer version.

john




Quote
I don't want to diminish anyone's enthusiasm for this paper, but it really is the F Type Ultrasmooth just a hair thicker.
It measures identically, values look identical, the surface is identical, gloss differential and bronzing are identical.
It's great if the increased thickness makes it more desirable to some users, but in your case, you saw the Innova, so you've seen the Epson. Nice paper.
Tyler
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Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Peter Frahm on January 06, 2008, 09:16:40 pm
Quote
I don't want to diminish anyone's enthusiasm for this paper, but it really is the F Type Ultrasmooth just a hair thicker.
It measures identically, values look identical, the surface is identical, gloss differential and bronzing are identical.
It's great if the increased thickness makes it more desirable to some users, but in your case, you saw the Innova, so you've seen the Epson. Nice paper.
Tyler
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Tyler,

I agree with what you are saying, the Epson Fiber is very similar to the Innova Ultra Smooth gloss in terms of the finished, printed look..d-max, tonality etc.

 The thickness isn't the only difference though..the other difference is that the Epson paper sits flat and stays flat. I find that the Innova gloss papers are all over the place they curl and they buckle. The Epson Fiber's flatness makes handling, storage and presentation a lot easier, not to mention, no head strikes. I had frequent head strike issues with the Innova papers.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: deanwork on January 07, 2008, 09:41:07 am
Tyler,

I believe he is right about that. All the Innova papers curl a lot and this one of the issues when they were used in the Z series printers. But the Epson could very well be made by Innova with something added to keep them flat. They made a similar arrangement with Premiere Art a while back.

Is the Epson base warmer or not?  I'm holding several of these in my hands right now and both the Innova Ultrasmooth Gloss and the Innova Satin are way bluer than the Ilford and Harmon papers. Way bluer. I don't have any of the Epson here. The bluer papers just look artificial to me, for black and white in particular. For some color things I don't mind it as much, but it isn't ideal.

john




Quote
Tyler,

I agree with what you are saying, the Epson Fiber is very similar to the Innova Ultra Smooth gloss in terms of the finished, printed look..d-max, tonality etc.

 The thickness isn't the only difference though..the other difference is that the Epson paper sits flat and stays flat. I find that the Innova gloss papers are all over the place they curl and they buckle. The Epson Fiber's flatness makes handling, storage and presentation a lot easier, not to mention, no head strikes. I had frequent head strike issues with the Innova papers.
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Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: TylerB on January 07, 2008, 10:51:20 am
Peter, I have no doubt that you are right. I was not thinking of paper handling in my comments, I'm only looking at measurements, tests, at this point. The points you make are obviously important.
John, you've seen the image quality exactly, and the base is still blue. I have letter size prints of the Atkinson test image on both side by side. If they were not labeled you would not be able to distinguish them. I'm sure the thicker base was to help with the issues Peter mentions.
Tyler
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: picnic on January 07, 2008, 11:39:00 am
Quote
Tyler,

I agree with what you are saying, the Epson Fiber is very similar to the Innova Ultra Smooth gloss in terms of the finished, printed look..d-max, tonality etc.

 The thickness isn't the only difference though..the other difference is that the Epson paper sits flat and stays flat. I find that the Innova gloss papers are all over the place they curl and they buckle. The Epson Fiber's flatness makes handling, storage and presentation a lot easier, not to mention, no head strikes. I had frequent head strike issues with the Innova papers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=165538\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Tyler (or anyone else that has experience with a number of these papers), above you mentioned the Innova F Semi Matte.  I had earlier settled on this paper of all the F types I sampled (Innova, Museo, Hahnemuhle) but have packs of the new Harman, Ilford, EEF on order.  I haven't yet ordered the new Hahnemuhle.  My question is about the coldness/blue factor.  I like a warmer paper--thus am hoping I like the Ilford.  But--looking at my samples of the Innova Semi matte, I find it a bit warmer than say, the Hahnemuhle FAP.  I can't find my other samples from Innova at the moment--and don't think I had the F USG, but I'd like you or someone, if they can, to give me their opinions on the base color of all of these--how you see them.  I read Michael's review--which was why I felt the Ilford may be the paper (all other things considered) I'd prefer, but I am going to do my own samplings (3800).

TIA, Diane
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Peter Frahm on January 07, 2008, 12:25:16 pm
Diane,

Anything sitting next to Hanne Fine Art Pearl is going to look warm. That paper is excruciatingly bright, clinical is the word that comes to mind.

As stated in the Michael rundown of these three Baryta papers. The Ilford is the warmest of the lot and has noticable texture. I'm not sure I would call it subtle. IMO the Ilford shows way too much gloss differential for my taste.

Michael mentions "essentially no gloss differential" on the Harman. It is there if you are pushing contrast in your prints. Difficult to pick up in decent tonal transitions from dark to naked white. If you have hard, dark lines next to naked white, it's noticable. the harman seems to hold it's shape after printing..slight curl, no big deal...nothing is as bad as the Innova stuff in terms of changing shape..read posts above.

I like the Harman Baryta best of the three Barytas. the Harman does require less sharpening on your files. Fine detail is rendered quite differently on this paper than what most are used to on any paper. It's an interesting paper. The Harman appears more glossy than the others but I don't think it's any more glossy than the Epson...it's smoother and gives it away a bit more.


The Epson paper is not a Baryta but basically what was written, in posts above, about it's color holds. Slightly cool like the Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss, but I like a bit of cool. I'm not a huge fan of warm papers, especially for black and white. The Epson has a bit more texture than the Harman, but it looks great. I'm biased towards the Epson Fiber because of the ease of handling..flatness factor and it's ability to produce great black. When they designed this paper it seems they considered a few extra details.


In another thread, People were noticing the scuffing issue on the Harman Baryta. I've noticed this too. It could be that the paper is so smooth that it shows scuffs more readily..not sure what it is but I do know that you have to baby this stuff. However, didn't your Mom always tell you to hold the family pictures by their edges?

Hope that helps.

Peter
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: deanwork on January 07, 2008, 01:40:05 pm
I like the Harmon too and it IS really sharp, but I just don't see where it looks much different than rc papers out there and ouch, the cost.

I'm comparing a buch of print edge colors right now and the Innova Satin and USGloss/Epson are much bluer than any fiber print I have around here, made by Ilford, Agfa, Oriental, etc. It is even noticeably bluer than Kodak rc black and white papers that are full of obas. The Harmon and Ilford are about the same as most fiber prints edge color, but not as warm as portiga rapid. The Harmon and Ilford Gold are warmer than the rc Kodak silver paper.

I would love the Innova Satin with a slightly less blue oba base. That would be perfection to me.

john
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: TylerB on January 07, 2008, 01:40:48 pm
Diane, here are paper white readings for most of these papers I did a month ago or so-

Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta- 99.9, 1.2, -3.7
Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Pearl- 98.5, 0.1, 1.6
Harman Glossy FB AI- 99.9, 0.2., -3.0
Innova FibaPrint Ultra Smooth Gloss- 97.7, 1.2, -5.4
Innova FibaPrint F-Type White Semi-Matte- 97.7, 0.8, -3.6
Ilford Gold Fiber Silk- 99.8, 0.1, -0.6

These are LAB numbers. No paper is "virtually" white, so the 1st number will always be less than 100. The second two would be 0 if the paper were dead neutral. A negative last number indicates blue, so you can see that GFS is quite neutral compared to the others. Also, the Innova semi matte is a bit less blue than the gloss.
Whether or not that is subjectively desirable is up to the individual.
Hope that helps. John's visual comparison was going up just as I was writing this, your eyes are always better than numbers regarding these kinds of decisions.
Tyler
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Peter Frahm on January 07, 2008, 02:15:57 pm
John,

I agree re the gloss on the Harman. It gets very close to an RC look, sort of plastic looking.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: JeffKohn on January 07, 2008, 02:40:02 pm
Quote
John,

I agree re the gloss on the Harman. It gets very close to an RC look, sort of plastic looking.
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I felt the same way, to me this paper seems very similar to a heavyweight glossy RC paper. It has almost no texture at all and is noticeably glossier than the other fiber papers I've looked at (which I suppose is what some people like about it).

Also interesting that the Harman paper is not as thick as the Hahnemuhle despite supposedly being about the same weight.
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: picnic on January 07, 2008, 03:12:54 pm
Quote
Diane, here are paper white readings for most of these papers I did a month ago or so-

Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta- 99.9, 1.2, -3.7
Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Pearl- 98.5, 0.1, 1.6
Harman Glossy FB AI- 99.9, 0.2., -3.0
Innova FibaPrint Ultra Smooth Gloss- 97.7, 1.2, -5.4
Innova FibaPrint F-Type White Semi-Matte- 97.7, 0.8, -3.6
Ilford Gold Fiber Silk- 99.8, 0.1, -0.6

These are LAB numbers. No paper is "virtually" white, so the 1st number will always be less than 100. The second two would be 0 if the paper were dead neutral. A negative last number indicates blue, so you can see that GFS is quite neutral compared to the others. Also, the Innova semi matte is a bit less blue than the gloss.
Whether or not that is subjectively desirable is up to the individual.
Hope that helps. John's visual comparison was going up just as I was writing this, your eyes are always better than numbers regarding these kinds of decisions.
Tyler
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Thanks Tyler and others.  My papers (except Hahnemuhle) should be on their way (though the EEF may still be OS) and I'll have to try them on my own but these numbers are helpful.  I found the Museo Silver Rag (warmer) and the Innova F-WT and from HFAP to the Innova FWT there's quite a range from quite cool to quite warm in those.  I'll print monos and color on all and try to make a reasonable judgement based on all their attributes (including handling).

Thanks again.  I'll continue to watch this thread and others about these papers, problems, etc.

Diane
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: dealy663 on January 07, 2008, 06:25:41 pm
My measurements of the Gold Fibre Silk are very similar to Tyler's.

Visually this paper appears to be very warm (at least compared to all the other fiber based glossy emulators - with the exception of Silver Rag).

What also interesting is that with Epson K3 inks on my 3800 and in ABW mode, the dark end is also very neutral on this paper, I think I had a lab measurement of 4, 0, 0 for the black patch. I've never seen an X,0,0 Lab measurement on any paper I've measured (not that I've examined each of the thousands of patches I've measured over the past couple years).

All that said, I'm also of the opinion that Gold Fibre Silk is barely any different in feel than any other RC paper, the back doesn't feel fibrous at all.

I'm still rather non-plussed by all of these newfangled fiber glossy papers. None of them so far live up to the hype IMHO.

Derek

Quote
Diane, here are paper white readings for most of these papers I did a month ago or so-

Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta- 99.9, 1.2, -3.7
Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Pearl- 98.5, 0.1, 1.6
Harman Glossy FB AI- 99.9, 0.2., -3.0
Innova FibaPrint Ultra Smooth Gloss- 97.7, 1.2, -5.4
Innova FibaPrint F-Type White Semi-Matte- 97.7, 0.8, -3.6
Ilford Gold Fiber Silk- 99.8, 0.1, -0.6

These are LAB numbers. No paper is "virtually" white, so the 1st number will always be less than 100. The second two would be 0 if the paper were dead neutral. A negative last number indicates blue, so you can see that GFS is quite neutral compared to the others. Also, the Innova semi matte is a bit less blue than the gloss.
Whether or not that is subjectively desirable is up to the individual.
Hope that helps. John's visual comparison was going up just as I was writing this, your eyes are always better than numbers regarding these kinds of decisions.
Tyler
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Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: deanwork on January 12, 2008, 01:46:56 pm
Tyler,

Thanks for those readings I'll file them away. There is a lot of blue in most of these.

Your numbers are in line with what I'm seeing here. The only two of these that really are close to matching the base of a traditional neutral tone fiber (not rc) silver paper, like Gallerie or Kodak, or Brovira, is the Ilford Gold and Silver Rag. Of course we know why they put so much oba in these papers...it makes the gamut look more vibrant and the dynamic range of everything more dramatic. Even the illusion of the dmax is greater due to the white point.  That isn't new though. With the rc gloss papers it is the same story. It all depends on what you want to do with them of course. It's nice to have variety.

John



Quote
My measurements of the Gold Fibre Silk are very similar to Tyler's.

Visually this paper appears to be very warm (at least compared to all the other fiber based glossy emulators - with the exception of Silver Rag).

What also interesting is that with Epson K3 inks on my 3800 and in ABW mode, the dark end is also very neutral on this paper, I think I had a lab measurement of 4, 0, 0 for the black patch. I've never seen an X,0,0 Lab measurement on any paper I've measured (not that I've examined each of the thousands of patches I've measured over the past couple years).

All that said, I'm also of the opinion that Gold Fibre Silk is barely any different in feel than any other RC paper, the back doesn't feel fibrous at all.

I'm still rather non-plussed by all of these newfangled fiber glossy papers. None of them so far live up to the hype IMHO.

Derek
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Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Kenneth Sky on January 12, 2008, 04:55:01 pm
Printing on an HP B9180 in B&W is extremely neutral using Ilford's "canned" icc profile for Galerie Gold. However, when viewing surface reflection at an acute angle the highlights have a dulled reflection. It's still every bit as good as Harman at half the price (C$ 2.50 for a 13"x19" sheet).
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: picnic on January 12, 2008, 06:19:51 pm
Quote
Printing on an HP B9180 in B&W is extremely neutral using Ilford's "canned" icc profile for Galerie Gold. However, when viewing surface reflection at an acute angle the highlights have a dulled reflection. It's still every bit as good as Harman at half the price (C$ 2.50 for a 13"x19" sheet).
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I just printed for the first time on the Ilford Gold Silk--both mono and color using the 'canned' profiles for the 3800.  I printed the Harman earlier in the week.  The Harman is too glossy for me--and I prefer the  bit warmer Gold Silk.  I compared it to the Epson Semigloss and the surface is very similar but becomes 'smoother'-not so 'sparkly' as it ages a bit--and, in my print, has no GD, only slight in SG.  I objected to that taking if from the printer, but overall, probably prefer the Innova Semi Matte--but not the price (though would prefer it a bit warmer).  I'm not sure that I can justify the big difference between the Innova F-SM and the Ilford--esp. under glass.  I bought the Innova F-SM in smaller size to use for a boxed portfolio.  The Harman seems more fragile in surface also.  I'll still withhold judgment until I print the EEF but it will have to WOW me--and I didn't order the Hahnemuhle yet either.  The EEF is still BO at Atlex in 8.5 x 11---but I'm guessing that for the price I'll not choose it.  In all honesty, I'm not totally thrilled by these 2 yet--altho' the Harman has good dark blacks and quite good detail--and the Ilford appeals more to me because of the warmth.  I paricularly liked my color print from it.  

BTW--the Ilford is about $2.19 per 13 x 19 sheet at Atlex if I divided correctly.  The EEF is 4.46 and the Harman is 4.19---and so far, best price for INnova SM at same size is $4.11 (though I will likely buy 17 x 22).

Diane
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: deanwork on January 12, 2008, 07:27:31 pm
From all reports the Epson variety is the Innova USGloss with a thicker base, and it lies flatter, which is nice. They are both too expensive. I like the price of the Ilford and the surface of the Innova Satin. But I agree we need a print base more like the Ilford in color, esp for black and white. We are really close to having exactly what I've always wanted.
john
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: mminegis on January 19, 2008, 11:01:57 pm
I was so excited to try this paper today with my R2400. Unfortunately, after several trials, I cannot get rid of the lines (are these called pizza wheel marks?) all over the surface. I never had this before with other glossy papers (like Fine Art Pearl). I did try thick paper on/off, sheet feeder rear/top etc., without any success. Such a shame.... especially for this price!

Now, I am back with my good old Photo Rag..... I would love to find something semi glossy for my lake (deep blue water) shots, though. What I didn't like aboout Fine Art Pearl was its inconsistency: a huge difference between one box to another - some had bizzare surface marks. What is Photo Rag Pearl like?  And/or, is there any trick to eliminate the lines abovestated?

Thanks!

Mari
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: William Morse on May 20, 2008, 03:29:11 pm
Hi John-
Found this while researching the Gold Silk. I'm intrigued by your comment re: linearizing the glop, but completely clueless about how one would do it. Any comments?

Thanks, Bill


Quote
Because of the nature of the totally different ( and innovative) glop channel on the Z3100 it is critical that the amount of glop be linearized specifically for that emulsion. Hp has their basic set up standard for their Satin and Gloss rc papers that are even different than Epson rc emulsions and perform perfectly with the Z without any spraying needed. The Ilford Gold is totally a new animal. And, I agree, it was surely created with Epson K3 in mind because that is major market at this point in time, especially for desktop units, but also for mid sized and large format models.

john
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Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: USA_Stewart on May 20, 2008, 11:16:59 pm
Quote from: deanwork,Jan 5 2008, 11:54 AM
Stewart,

This method of eliminating the roller marks still working for ya, with the gloss enhancer channel turned off? I am very interested in using the Ilford Gold this way. The Epson is way too expensive.

John


Deanwork - John,

I have also been using Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk paper with the Z3100. I use the Fine Art Pearl (more ink) setting with the gloss enhancer set to "Econo Mode." Watch that the light areas of the print do not exceed 256 or you will get blank whites that have a visible gloss differential on the paper despite the gloss enhancer. Additionally, I spray the prints with three light coats of Premier Art Print Shield to protect the print from UV, contaminates, and to ensure a uniform surface without any gloss differential. It's more work, but the prints are beautiful and the paper is cheaper than Epson's Exhibition Fiber paper which you said was too expensive for you. Use a respirator when spraying the prints. I hope this information is useful to you.

-Stewart
Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: USA_Stewart on May 20, 2008, 11:22:51 pm
Quote
Stewart,

This method of eliminating the roller marks still working for ya, with the gloss enhancer channel turned off? I am very interested in using the Ilford Gold this way. The Epson is way too expensive.

John

PS- I visited Ruth Bernhard in her studio in San Francisco 1978 and  bought one of those prints for $60.00. Man if I had only bought a dozen of the nudes back then! She was using Portriga Rapid and Brovira at that time. That is when I started using Portriga with Benzatriazole restrainer in the developer, and toned in Selenium after seeing her prints. That was before Ilford Gallery came out. I know what you are talking about, but didn't know that was how she got her Portriga papers to shine more. Interesting. You learn something every day.
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Title: Bartya - What about the new Ilford Gold Fibre Silk
Post by: Mark D Segal on May 20, 2008, 11:30:43 pm
Quote
Diane, here are paper white readings for most of these papers I did a month ago or so-

Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta- 99.9, 1.2, -3.7
Hahnemuhle PhotoRag Pearl- 98.5, 0.1, 1.6
Harman Glossy FB AI- 99.9, 0.2., -3.0
Innova FibaPrint Ultra Smooth Gloss- 97.7, 1.2, -5.4
Innova FibaPrint F-Type White Semi-Matte- 97.7, 0.8, -3.6
Ilford Gold Fiber Silk- 99.8, 0.1, -0.6

These are LAB numbers. No paper is "virtually" white, so the 1st number will always be less than 100. The second two would be 0 if the paper were dead neutral. A negative last number indicates blue, so you can see that GFS is quite neutral compared to the others. Also, the Innova semi matte is a bit less blue than the gloss.
Whether or not that is subjectively desirable is up to the individual.
Hope that helps. John's visual comparison was going up just as I was writing this, your eyes are always better than numbers regarding these kinds of decisions.
Tyler
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Ilford actually provides its own Lab numbers for GFS in the insert that comes with every package. They are L=97.0; a= -0.5 and b= +0.2.

Having just completed several series totaling over 300 prints with this paper I'm getting quite famliar with how it responds (Epson 3800). In a nutshell - excellent. But it has two issues: (1) it needs to be handled very carefully because it shows finger oils and surface scratches easily, and (2) there is some gloss differential which shows for L values exceeding about 92%. However, neither of these things are visible when looking at the print with a lighting angle that is correct for actually seeing the image properly - which I think is what the whole game is all about. Excellent value for money, though undoubtedly could still be improved a bit.