Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Hermie on September 10, 2007, 02:28:02 am
-
Just noticed this on Outback Photo:
http://www.outbackprint.com/papers/paper_d...n_FB_Gloss.html (http://www.outbackprint.com/papers/paper_directory/Harman_FB_Gloss.html)
http://www.outbackprint.com/papers/paper_d...tory/essay.html (http://www.outbackprint.com/papers/paper_directory/essay.html)
-
Well, we're still waiting here in the UK - unless anyone knows different and someone has stocks?
John
-
Well, we're still waiting here in the UK - unless anyone knows different and someone has stocks?
John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138345\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Tried 10 different store, they all are still waiting for that paper.
-
I'll have a major review here later this week.
This is the paper we've been waiting for!
Michael
-
Let's hope they can produce it with good QC. My problem with the other fibre papers is the blemishes and surface artifacts out of the box, especially with roll papers. Looking forward to the review.
Jeff
I'll have a major review here later this week.
This is the paper we've been waiting for!
Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138376\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Jeff
I have been using the Harman FB matt ever since it came out, and QC has been very good, box to box and sheet to sheet. I see no reason to suppose that the gloss will be any different in this regard.
John
-
Jeff
I have been using the Harman FB matt ever since it came out, and QC has been very good, box to box and sheet to sheet. I see no reason to suppose that the gloss will be any different in this regard.
John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138393\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I ordered a roll over the weekend from climaxphoto.com and got a message from them that the product will dropship from Pantone (!) on October 10th.
I've used the Harman Matte paper on my Z3100 and love the surface, but find it too fragile to even consider using without a protective spray. I'm hoping the glossy and satin finishes are less fragile.
-Ron
-
I just read Richard Lohmann's review of the new Harman Gloss paper.
It sounds like everything I have been looking for in a gloss paper except for this:
"Harman Gloss does have a delicate surface that is susceptible to fine scratching. When printed from rolls on the Hewlett Packard Z 3100, the paper was scratched by the printer. No Epson printers I used scratched the surface of Harman Gloss."
That quote sort of took the wind out of my sails. Are Z3100 owners going to be locked into a handful of glossy choices that don't show signs of roller marks? From what I recall, those that had the redesigned rollers replaced still had the same problems afterward. I haven't tried it, but Richard implies elsewhere that cut sheets don't show the same marks. Does it grab the paper differently with cut sheets vs. roll paper?
Thanks,
Ron
-
I just read Richard Lohmann's review of the new Harman Gloss paper.
It sounds like everything I have been looking for in a gloss paper except for this:
"Harman Gloss does have a delicate surface that is susceptible to fine scratching. When printed from rolls on the Hewlett Packard Z 3100, the paper was scratched by the printer. No Epson printers I used scratched the surface of Harman Gloss."
That quote sort of took the wind out of my sails. Are Z3100 owners going to be locked into a handful of glossy choices that don't show signs of roller marks? From what I recall, those that had the redesigned rollers replaced still had the same problems afterward. I haven't tried it, but Richard implies elsewhere that cut sheets don't show the same marks. Does it grab the paper differently with cut sheets vs. roll paper?
Thanks,
Ron
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=138568\")
I doubt the last. The transport pressure will be the same, the curled paper from the roll may build up a slightly heavier pressure on the rolls spots but it will not make the difference. The Innova F type gloss A3 sheets have the same matt inprint of the transport rollers.
As it is not unlikely that all the new baryta papers are coated by Sihl you may see the same surface quality issues with the other ones that get to the market now.
[a href=\"http://www.dasauge.de/aktuell/foto_film/e908]http://www.dasauge.de/aktuell/foto_film/e908[/url]
320, 325 and 290 gsm papers. 5 gram difference on 16 A4 sheets isn't much. The Sihl may be a bit more flexible but 10% lighter isn't much either.
The transport roller construction doesn't lend itself to DIY improvements. maybe if HP sends new roller sets + instructions but that probably will create more disasters than solve the issue.
Ernst Dinkla
try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
-
I've been using the paper for about a week (I wrote one of the first review comments on the page the OP linked to) and have not noticed it being especially scratch-prone... In fact, my prints on it seem as durable as those from Epson Premium Luster, which is pretty durable.
And to clarify, this is quite contrary from my experience with the matte version, which I did NOT like the look of to begin with, and did seem fairly fragile.
Cheers,
-
Well, we're still waiting here in the UK - unless anyone knows different and someone has stocks?
Called Silverprint this morning and got some A4. No idea when larger sizes will be available. Only done 2 prints - definite improvement over Innova Gloss (not the ultrasmooth on which I haven't made a comparison print.). Colour also looks promising.
John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138345\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
FWIW, I've just posted this thread (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19483) about one of the Harman Gloss FB AI generic profiles for the Epson R2400. The profile makes the paper look really impressive :-)
I tried RK Photographic in the UK today and they are expecting some 'soon'.
Can't wait to try this paper!
-
I just read Richard Lohmann's review of the new Harman Gloss paper.
It sounds like everything I have been looking for in a gloss paper except for this:
"Harman Gloss does have a delicate surface that is susceptible to fine scratching. When printed from rolls on the Hewlett Packard Z 3100, the paper was scratched by the printer. No Epson printers I used scratched the surface of Harman Gloss."
That quote sort of took the wind out of my sails. Are Z3100 owners going to be locked into a handful of glossy choices that don't show signs of roller marks? From what I recall, those that had the redesigned rollers replaced still had the same problems afterward. I haven't tried it, but Richard implies elsewhere that cut sheets don't show the same marks. Does it grab the paper differently with cut sheets vs. roll paper?
Thanks,
Ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138568\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm not against buying cut sheets to use on my Z3100 but I'd like confirmation that the problem only appears with rolls of papers.
Lohmann's review of the paper is quite glowing. Now all we have to do is wait to see how it compares with Hahnemuhle's soon to be released baryta.
-
I'll have a major review here later this week.
This is the paper we've been waiting for!
Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138376\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Michael,
I'm hoping you'll still be doing this review despite today's posting of Mr. Lohmann's review. You seemed to indicate that you'd be deferring to his views.
I'd very much like to see it as there doesn't appear to be much about the paper's workings with the IPF5000 -- Harman doesn't even have profiles for it -- and we know that you like the IPF5000's output. As always, your insights would be most appreciated.
As for the paper, Shades of Paper appears to have some sheets, but pricing looks pretty insane (or maybe I need to recalibrate my meter as I enter the world of printing).
N
-
Well, I've now got an order in with two UK suppliers for some sample packs of the Harman Gloss. As soon as I actually get some to feed through the R2400 I will report back. Must say that I'm looking forward to this.
John
-
I'm not against buying cut sheets to use on my Z3100 but I'd like confirmation that the problem only appears with rolls of papers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138768\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My experience with my Z3100 is that linear scratches appear with the Harman Glossy FB Al (8.5 x 11") cut sheets as well.
DDH
-
I'll have a major review here later this week.
This is the paper we've been waiting for!
Michael
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=138376\")
I agree with the reviewers. I grabbed a trial pack of both matte (warmtone) and Glossy yesterday and have been stunned by the quality of the paper. It is everything I have been looking for - proper blacks, brilliant tonal range, prints that really snap and zing - they are that crisp. Soft-proofing becomes easier with this paper - no need to compensate for weak blacks and muddy shadows. The weight and feel of the paper is a delight - I can finally banish the "plastic paper" and semi-retire the expensive Hahnemuehle Photo Rag!
With the glossy paper the print surface is just sublime with both b&w and colour. I am using a HP B9180 and prints are free from bronzing and gloss differential and as far as I can test also also free from metamerism. As commented by others; the b&w really does have a metallic glow and when printing colour images they are almost three dimensional - the substrate provides that much depth to the print.
I have also tried the Warmtone Matte paper and I am equally pleased. The B9180 prints beautiful b&w on the warmtone matte paper, with the boost in the dmax/blacks being particularly evident. This is probably one of the sharpest printing matte papers I have tried, with detail to match.
I haven't tried the regular Matte, but it ought to be very similar to the Warmtone, as I understand the only difference is that the "regular" has optical brighteners whilst the warmtone doesn't and is additionally described as acid-free and of museum grade standard.
I haven't had any problems with the surface being potentially delicate - aren't most fine art paper surfaces a little delicate? The B9180 certainly hasn't marked the paper (glossy or matte) so far!
For the forum poster who wanted to know where it is available in the UK, it seems that supplies of the gloss are finally coming onstream (about a month later than promised). Speed Graphic ([a href=\"http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk]Speed Graphic[/url]www.speedgraphic.co.uk) has stocks of all three papers in all cut sizes - but the larger sizes of Gloss have only just come in stock in the last day or so. Speedgraphic seem to be one of the first to get stock of the Gloss paper, from my trawl of the internet, although I emailed several other reliable online stores (UK) and they are all expecting stocks within the next two weeks. BTW - I have no connection with Speed Graphic save that I use them from time to time.
On the strength of the prints I made yesterday with the trial packs, I have ordered some packs of A3+ and I expect this to become my standard paper.
-
My experience with my Z3100 is that linear scratches appear with the Harman Glossy FB Al (8.5 x 11") cut sheets as well.
DDH
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138889\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks! I didn't think there were two paper paths so I didn't understand how rolls would exhibit the scratches and cut sheets wouldn't.
-
Does anyone have anything to share regarding the curl reistance this paper claims to have ?
As excited as I was reading the other fine features this paper list, the one that really got me was its reported reistance to curling as thats something I've always had issues with and reverse rolling a roll, using homemade "d rollers" and so forth are all things I would never miss not having to do ever again
I'm going to imagine this will be on a 3" core so I guess the real test will be when someone gets down the the end of the roll and we see just how useable those last few feet are.
-
I was under the impression that the anti-curl stuff was mostly applicable to cut sheets, not rolls ...
I would imagine that even if the anti-curl stuff is effective, near the end of a roll it's still going to be pretty prone to curl after it comes off the roll.
-
As far as U.S. availability is concerned, a couple days ago, I ordered 15 sheets of 13x19 ($62-- not inexpensive) from Freestyle Photo in SoCal -- their name came up on the Harman website as a distributor. Well, paper isn't in hand yet, BUT they said it has been shipped, so I'm hoping for the best. You, particularly those on the West Coast as I am, might give them a call.
I am more a matte kind of guy, so would love to hear even more about how the Harman mattes compare with the other well-known players. And price-wise, my mental math isn't quite good enough to compare cost with HPR, which doesn't come in 15's, but, hey, my calculator is right here, so . . .
Some of the BEST news I've heard about the line is that it's available in 17x25 for us 3800 users!
--Ron
-
It doesn't take much math to figure out the Harman is one of the most expensive papers on the market out of hundreds. I expect angels to fly out of the box when you open it. Yay for 17 X 25" size, but it's probably going to be so expensive, they only sell it in 1/2 sheet boxes.
-
It doesn't take much math to figure out the Harman is one of the most expensive papers on the market out of hundreds. I expect angels to fly out of the box when you open it. Yay for 17 X 25" size, but it's probably going to be so expensive, they only sell it in 1/2 sheet boxes.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139053\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
TOO funny! (maybe too true, also, but definitely too funny)
--Ron
-
It doesn't take much math to figure out the Harman is one of the most expensive papers on the market out of hundreds. I expect angels to fly out of the box when you open it. Yay for 17 X 25" size, but it's probably going to be so expensive, they only sell it in 1/2 sheet boxes.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139053\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think part of the cost comes from importing it into the US. Here in the UK it is actually quite competitively priced (surprisingly so perhaps) when compared to other well respected fine art papers. In fact Hahnemühle is eye wateringly expensive in the UK! For example 2 boxes of 15 sheets of Harman comes out cheaper than one box of 25 sheets of Hahnemühle (and in fact most other popular fine art papers). We have the same imbalance in price with papers produced in the US and parts of Europe - it must be transport costs, taxes and duties that make the difference.
-
Well I had to see it to believe it, but this Harmon paper is indeed sharper with greater micro contrast than identical print files done on other fiber based soft gloss papers. I love the richness and depth (I'm a former silver printer and somewhat obsessive compulsive about print quality ......I like this new paper and am looking forward to trying the new hahnamuhle baryta paper when it is released. Eleanor
-
how do prints with this paper look from a Z3100?
C
-
how do prints with this paper look from a Z3100?
C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139168\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
People are reporting that they look great if you can live with the scratches from the wheels.
-
People are reporting that they look great if you can live with the scratches from the wheels.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139169\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
any way to get around that?
-
I just read Richard Lohmann's review of the new Harman Gloss paper.
Ron
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138568\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
For Mr. Richard Lohmann. You said “I have made black and white prints on Harman Gloss with an Epson 3800 printer using the Harrington Quadtone RIP… that are classically neutral” etc.
Would it be possible to post these curveson the Yahoo QTR group please? The paper is lovely but, as you say, expensive and, I suspect many people would appreciate such generosity,
Thanks,
Wanderer
-
any way to get around that?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139170\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No workarounds known at this time.
I'm waiting to see if the Hahnemuhle baryta has the same delicate surface.
-
No workarounds known at this time.
I'm waiting to see if the Hahnemuhle baryta has the same delicate surface.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139212\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's depressing news, I was about to take the plunge with a Z3100 but if it can't handle these new baryta papers then I'll put that order on hold.
Incidentally, does anyone know about using Harman FB papers with Piezographic inks? I've checked to see if profiles are available on the Piezography site but I can't find anything.
-
It's here at last!
Yes, I have been anxiously waiting for this Harman FB gloss paper right through August, and in fact I ordered two packs of it from three different suppliers this week, so there is advanced faith in the product, if you like. I actually got delivery of some A4 yesterday, and spent all of the evening running some tests. Propped up on my desk as I type is one of the prints from last night, and just to cut a long story short I will say straight off that it is superb.
My tests were on my Epson R2400 with the standard K3 inkset, all in B/W from scanned medium format film, and printed via the Advanced B/W mode on the Epson (I do not use ICC profiles for B/W work). Out of the box, the paper looks and feels very good - it is crisp, has the right sort of "snap", and the surface is very smooth with a nice soft gloss. My first trials were via the rear feed slot as I do with the heavier rag papers, but the gloss feeds perfectly well through the front sheet feed too, as I found out later. On the Epson, there were absolutely no marks on the paper surface from the paper feed mechanism. I also tried feeding a sheet upside down but even that did not mark the paper, so I assume that the problems mentioned in this respect can only apply to certain HP printers.
I am fortunate in that I still have a large archive of my own silver gelatine darkroom prints, many of them on the old Ilford Galerie graded paper, for comparison with inkjet prints. My first test prints used the paper setting as recommended by Harman for the R2400 and set to "neutral", which produced quite a cool-looking print. Toned to "warm" and printed with the dark curve in the ABW mode, the prints on the Harman FB Gloss are uncannily close in almost every respect to the old Galerie prints.
The nearest paper to my ideal in the recent past was the Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss 285gsm, which I have used extensively. In my opinion, the Harman is superior in all respects - it has a nicer gloss, better surface texture, and most importantly better shadow detail. In fact, the Harman has much better shadow detail and as good or better highlight separation than any of the recent fibre-base glossy papers, according to my tests with two very tricky negatives last night. Bronzing with the K3 inkset is minimal, but there is inevitably still some gloss differential - however Harman have got the surface gloss of the paper itself very close to natural gloss of the K3 inks. The only downside I have found so far is that the surface is quite delicate and easily marked, as others have noted. Not as delicate as the Harman FB Matt paper, to be fair, but you will still have to be careful when handling and mounting the print.
I really hope this paper will be a winner for Harman, because I can see that a lot of thought, time and craft have gone into it. This could be the media that makes glossy B/W printing on an inkjet printer no longer the poor relation of the darkroom.
John
-
Nice report, John. Can you comment briefly on quality control in the box you have so far? One of the things that has frustrated me with the Innova FibaPrint papers (including White Gloss and Ultra Smooth Gloss) is that nearly every sheet has something slightly wrong with it ... little scuff marks, dinged corners or edges, uneven surface characteristics (that were clearly not part of the design). Any such problems with the new Harman Gloss?
-
For Mr. Richard Lohmann. You said “I have made black and white prints on Harman Gloss with an Epson 3800 printer using the Harrington Quadtone RIP… that are classically neutral” etc.
Would it be possible to post these curveson the Yahoo QTR group please? The paper is lovely but, as you say, expensive and, I suspect many people would appreciate such generosity,
Thanks,
Wanderer
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139172\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Wanderer and All,
I made my prints on an Epson 3800 printer using K3 inks. I started with the QTR RGB Photo Paper profile. Once in QTR, I loaded these pre-made curves, that came with the software:
Curve 1: UCpk-IlfordSmooth-cool
Curve 2: UCpk-IlfordSmooth-neut
Curve 3: UCpk-IlfordSmooth-sepia
(UCpk-IlfordSmooth-warm is too green and I don’t use it)
I printed at 2880 DPI.
Under advanced adjustments, I increase the ink limit to +5.
I print unidirectional.
As for mixing the curves to create image tone–– I showed three nationally known gelatin silver printers a Harman print. Each person had a different notion of what neutral actually is. One person said that the print was too cool, and another thought it was too warm.
Therefore you should experiment for yourself, as my settings may not meet your expectations of neutral. I made over 100 prints using a variety of settings. I found a little bit of sepia in the shadows mixed with the neutral and cool curves, yield rich warmth in the shadows. The blue in the cool (curve) cancels some the yellow of sepia, and when the proportions are correct, can create a delicate russet color to your print’s lower values. (It reminds me of selenium toned Azo paper)
As for the midtones and highlights, I mix just the neutral and cool curves—no sepia. My highlights are quite cool, which adds complementary contrast to the shadow values of the print.
Some of my favorite prints are gelatin silver prints made with Printing-Out-Paper that are toned in gold. Gold yields a blue/magenta coolness. If you have seen Atget’s prints, you have seen these tones. Looking at these prints reveals my concept of good image tone--which might not be yours. Even my neutral prints have a hint of warmth in the shadow values.
So I can’t really give you a recipe, but I hope my guidelines are helpful.
My teaching responsibilities are in full bloom, and I am re-writing hundreds of pages of my digital instructional materials. I should be working on my Curves chapter right now! So I will not be able to re-post and answer questions on this forum. But I wish all of you well.
One last thought—I would not have learned what I learned- if I had plugged someone else’s numbers into QTR. I hope I have given you and others a good starting point.
Best,
Richard Lohmann
-
It's here at last!
Yes, I have been anxiously waiting for this Harman FB gloss paper right through August, and in fact I ordered two packs of it from three different suppliers this week, so there is advanced faith in the product, if you like. I actually got delivery of some A4 yesterday, and spent all of the evening running some tests. Propped up on my desk as I type is one of the prints from last night, and just to cut a long story short I will say straight off that it is superb.
My tests were on my Epson R2400 with the standard K3 inkset, all in B/W from scanned medium format film, and printed via the Advanced B/W mode on the Epson (I do not use ICC profiles for B/W work). Out of the box, the paper looks and feels very good - it is crisp, has the right sort of "snap", and the surface is very smooth with a nice soft gloss. My first trials were via the rear feed slot as I do with the heavier rag papers, but the gloss feeds perfectly well through the front sheet feed too, as I found out later. On the Epson, there were absolutely no marks on the paper surface from the paper feed mechanism. I also tried feeding a sheet upside down but even that did not mark the paper, so I assume that the problems mentioned in this respect can only apply to certain HP printers.
I am fortunate in that I still have a large archive of my own silver gelatine darkroom prints, many of them on the old Ilford Galerie graded paper, for comparison with inkjet prints. My first test prints used the paper setting as recommended by Harman for the R2400 and set to "neutral", which produced quite a cool-looking print. Toned to "warm" and printed with the dark curve in the ABW mode, the prints on the Harman FB Gloss are uncannily close in almost every respect to the old Galerie prints.
The nearest paper to my ideal in the recent past was the Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss 285gsm, which I have used extensively. In my opinion, the Harman is superior in all respects - it has a nicer gloss, better surface texture, and most importantly better shadow detail. In fact, the Harman has much better shadow detail and as good or better highlight separation than any of the recent fibre-base glossy papers, according to my tests with two very tricky negatives last night. Bronzing with the K3 inkset is minimal, but there is inevitably still some gloss differential - however Harman have got the surface gloss of the paper itself very close to natural gloss of the K3 inks. The only downside I have found so far is that the surface is quite delicate and easily marked, as others have noted. Not as delicate as the Harman FB Matt paper, to be fair, but you will still have to be careful when handling and mounting the print.
I really hope this paper will be a winner for Harman, because I can see that a lot of thought, time and craft have gone into it. This could be the media that makes glossy B/W printing on an inkjet printer no longer the poor relation of the darkroom.
John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139386\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the feedback John.
The Harman gloss is not yet available in Australia but I have ordered 3 packets of the A3+ size - they should arrive early next month.
Very much looking forward to this paper.
-
I got mine yesterday (from speed graphic) and printed some A4 sized prints today with my R2400. B&W where scanned MF negs while colour was a mixture of studio and car shots.
Paper is a creamy colour like epson premium gloss while the texture is smoother than other fibre base gloss papers that I've tried (permajet & fotospeed). The paper is also a lot more flexable and does not curl so you can use the normal paper feed with no head hitting. I've not compared the prints to my normal gloss paper but the certainly made a good impression with the images having a nice pop to them. I'd probably not print colour with this paper purely because its so dam expensive (although buying 3 test packs is cheaper than the 15 sheet A4 pack). I've used the FB matt version and really like that for B&W prints and would use that over anything else I have. The only other paper I would use is permjet's delta matt fibre which is great for behind glass in both colour and B&W. I used ABW for B&W and the harman profiel for colour which seems spot on
-
Eric
I did a bit more printing on the new Harman over the weekend. I also checked through the sheets in the other 3 boxes of A4 which I have, and as far as I can tell at this stage QC seems very good. With the Harman Matt FB I have never had a bad sheet so far. I agree with you that Innova is a bit shaky in this respect.
John
-
I'll have a major review here later this week.
This is the paper we've been waiting for!
Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138376\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Michael -
Any suggestions for settings on the IPF5000 for this paper? Do you have profiles? The Harman web site does not have profiles for this printer.
Thanks,
Kevin
-
I hope to have some of this paper soon too.
The new director (France) from Hahnemuhle dropped by last week to give me some samples of a new Bamboo fibre paper which I already profiled and ran through the Z3100. It has a higher definition than PR308 and a more refined gamut. Hahnemuhle are also already making samples of a Baryta paper too which I will try out very soon on the Z as well. both new media types are both roll and sheet if I listened well.
I took apart the rollers on the Z3100 the other day and see that it would be possible to swap them out with something else. I might even have to try to run without them, but I'd rather do that on a prototype....
-
I hope to have some of this paper soon too.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139967\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Neil,
If you get some in, would you run a sheet or two through the DJ 130 and see what you think?
Thanks!
Jim
-
Wanderer and All,
I made my prints on an Epson 3800 printer using K3 inks. I started with the QTR RGB Photo Paper profile. Once in QTR, I loaded these pre-made curves, that came with the software:...
One last thought—I would not have learned what I learned- if I had plugged someone else’s numbers into QTR. I hope I have given you and others a good starting point.
Best,
Richard Lohmann
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139460\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Richard,
Thank you for your response. I hope to work on this at the weekend. I appreciate your last comment but tips do help. I spent a whole day last week chasing my tail, and gave up, but this was on a different paper and printer. While learning QTR, experimentation on Harman glossy and the r3800 is too expensive now I am not earning!
With sincere thanks,
Wanderer
-
What an excellent report on this paper.
There is only one small mistake, which is Richard says Z2100 and 3100 have Gloss Enhancer. It is only the Z3100 that does.
-
Are we close to a list of FB papers, Baryta (Barite) or Titanium Dioxide, matte, satin, gloss, and the way they behave on several printers ? Not an invitation for someone to try out all the papers available but a summary of collective experience could be made.
The manufacturers so far mentioned are correct ? > Hahnemuhle, Crane, Harman, Ilford, Sihl, Innova, Oriental, PremierArt, Moab, Ink Press, Lyson, ....
Without doubt some will be rebranded and it would be nice to know which ones.
Andrew Darlow has written on the subject:
http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/cp/olympus/te...t_id=1003563026 (http://www.pdnonline.com/pdn/cp/olympus/technology/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003563026)
Royce Bair:
http://www.inkjetbuzz.com/tips/2007-01-26.html (http://www.inkjetbuzz.com/tips/2007-01-26.html)
I will try to get some Sihl paper.
Ernst Dinkla
try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
-
The bigger problem for us , users of the Z3100 is still the problem of pizza wheel marks on the surface of most Fibre types. See another post here , HP have a prototype wheel assembly ready for someone. How nice of them to keep us informed....
-
The question of print life and archival properties is the big unknown for all of these new gloss papers, whatever the manufacturer. None of the third-party paper vendors have submitted samples to the Wilhelm labs, as far as I know, and you can understand why - the papers would have to be tested with inks from all the printer manufacturers to have any validity, and the costs would be prohibitive.
So all that we can say for any of these fibre-base gloss papers for the moment is whether or not we like their aesthetic qualities, when used on the printer and inkset we currently own. But I have to say that I have serious concerns about selling such prints as fine art, in the absence of any independent assessment of their anticipated display life.
John
-
Actually all the better paper makers test their own media. Might not be to the procedures WIR recommends and are trying to standardise, but none the less test the paper for lightfastness, humidity problems etc. Be aware that a lot of the paper available is spec'd by the resellers but made under one roof. It's the manufacturer of the paper who do the testing. Ernst is more up on who exactly makes the paper for which brands.
-
The question of print life and archival properties is the big unknown for all of these new gloss papers, whatever the manufacturer. None of the third-party paper vendors have submitted samples to the Wilhelm labs, as far as I know, and you can understand why - the papers would have to be tested with inks from all the printer manufacturers to have any validity, and the costs would be prohibitive.
So all that we can say for any of these fibre-base gloss papers for the moment is whether or not we like their aesthetic qualities, when used on the printer and inkset we currently own. But I have to say that I have serious concerns about selling such prints as fine art, in the absence of any independent assessment of their anticipated display life.
John
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=140129\")
True. The use of barite as a whitener in inkjet paper is another factor that hasn't been tested independently so far. That it has a proven history in B&W analogue paper doesn't tell all. Pigment inks are less dependend on the coating quality than dyes but you have a point here, we do not know what the inks and barite + other additives needed to use barite do to print life. With the TiO2 coatings on FB papers I'm less concerned as that's a more common combination tested already in other coatings on both RC based and matte art papers etc. The FB print texture is different but that can be achieved with other gelatine/PVA properties and coating methods. The underlying substrate is rag or alpha cellulose what I see in the specs. Both when acid free and calcium buffered will not influence the archival properties.
Ernst Dinkla
try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
-
The bigger problem for us , users of the Z3100 is still the problem of pizza wheel marks on the surface of most Fibre types. See another post here , HP have a prototype wheel assembly ready for someone. How nice of them to keep us informed....
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=140124\")
It must be possible for HP to change the transport pressure rollers to give them a softer surface. The Epson 10000 rollers are actually smaller and have that softer surface. The pizza wheels are less of a problem in my opinion and it applies to more manufacturer models, Epson has a history of models that needed adaptions by the user, up to recent desktop models. As long as I see the marks of the rollers on FB I'm not going to solve the pizza wheel issue on the Z3100 :-) Actually I have not seen that last problem but once with the GE on.
Ernst Dinkla
try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
-
I just finished printing a show series up on it and it is phenomenal. I originally reported NO gloss differential, but will modify that to very slight GD in the lower tonal regions --- so present, but not really significant.
The other point I'll hammer home is I printed this entire series using only my custom color profile on my 3800 -- and 3/4 of the series is monotone! Anyway, I am getting WYSIYG output (or as close as digital printers ever get to that) that bowls me over. The results are staggering and oh so simple...
Digital printing Nirvana
Cheers,
-
Actually all the better paper makers test their own media. Might not be to the procedures WIR recommends and are trying to standardise, but none the less test the paper for lightfastness, humidity problems etc. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140132\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, I can't say this exactly reassures me. One pack of fibre base paper I have states on the box that is "Museum and Conservation Grade" and approved by the "Fine Art Guild" (whoever they are). This particular paper has produced the worst curl and paper base yellowing results of any media in my recent home-brewed tests.
John
-
Well, I can't say this exactly reassures me. One pack of fibre base paper I have states on the box that is "Museum and Conservation Grade" and approved by the "Fine Art Guild" (whoever they are). This particular paper has produced the worst curl and paper base yellowing results of any media in my recent home-brewed tests.
John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140176\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ouch!
It would be nice if WIR could test all the media at least on the de-facto standard printer.
Never heard of the Guild above either.
-
Well, I can't say this exactly reassures me. One pack of fibre base paper I have states on the box that is "Museum and Conservation Grade" and approved by the "Fine Art Guild" (whoever they are). This particular paper has produced the worst curl and paper base yellowing results of any media in my recent home-brewed tests.
John
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=140176\")
Fine Art Guild
[a href=\"http://www.fineart.co.uk/Printstandards.asp]http://www.fineart.co.uk/Printstandards.asp[/url]
A bit of UK folklore. With a long history and I guess for traditional printing it must have some experience. The first time I heard about them was when His Royal Highness T.P.o.W. signed some offset prints to be sold as art and their complaints were in the international press. He knows more what is right in architecture I guess.
Ernst Dinkla
try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
-
Well, I must say that I was rather cynical (my customary stance) about the "glossy" reviews of this paper. I have seen this community chase a number of new papers like the new girl/guy in town, only to report that their infatuation faded faster than [insert simile of your choice]*. But, based on Michael's pithy phrase to the effect of "this is the one we were waiting for", I ordered 15 sheets, downloaded the profile from Harmon for my Epson 7600 and waited. The paper came today and I cranked up my printer. Well, I'm impressed. For both color and B&W the look is very traditional/authentic. I've already put in an order for more. The next test, which will be interesting, will be to spring some prints on people I know who have been looking down their noses at digital prints and assuming that their perception of the difference is a fatal and terminal flaw.
* Oh, since this is "Speak Like A Pirate Day" I'll contribute "like a keel-hauled landlubber"
-
Alot of the comments in this thread leave out the printer used as if we can guess. Anytime you talk about paper and results/opinions you must tell us what type of printer you are using as the ink/paper interaction are linked.
Regarding scratch marks it would be most helpful for someone to throw this paper at the HP/Epson/Canon inks and let us know if the paper is fragile on all printers or only the HP which it has been most complained about.
Anyone who has used the paper on the Canon and Epson care to comment on how easily it scratches?
Also is the consensus that HP (3100) has the most fragile ink on all papers as compared to Canon and Epson ink?
-
Alot of the comments in this thread leave out the printer used as if we can guess. Anytime you talk about paper and results/opinions you must tell us what type of printer you are using as the ink/paper interaction are linked.
Regarding scratch marks it would be most helpful for someone to throw this paper at the HP/Epson/Canon inks and let us know if the paper is fragile on all printers or only the HP which it has been most complained about.
Anyone who has used the paper on the Canon and Epson care to comment on how easily it scratches?
Also is the consensus that HP (3100) has the most fragile ink on all papers as compared to Canon and Epson ink?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Good point.
I printed with a 3800 (and said that), no roller tracks or weirdness in printing OTHER than needing to set a thicker paper and wider platten gap as originally indicated.
I showed several images form a series doen on it to a group yesterday and it held together just fine; no scratches, marks, no nuthin...
Cheers,
-
Anyone who has used the paper on the Canon and Epson care to comment on how easily it scratches?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have not had any issues with the Epson 4800 with the platten set to wide when printing sizes 8.5x11 or 13x19.
-
Also is the consensus that HP (3100) has the most fragile ink on all papers as compared to Canon and Epson ink?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=140713\")
On what is that opinion based ?
What I read and experience is that the FB paper coatings are delicate and the HP transport mechanism too rough for them. Has nothing to do with the ink.
Ernst Dinkla
try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
-
Is this paper's surface like an air dried fiber based glossy print or more like one that was dried on a ferotype tin? I really miss the low sheen of air dried glossy paper and I don't like the mirror surface gloss that is so common in RC papers, either ink jet or wet process.
Also, has anyone tried Harman paper with a dye printer? If so, would you recommend it for dye printers?
Thanks
RGS
-
I use the paper with the Canon Pro9000. It is the closest look to "air dried" F surface paper yet to be used in an inkjet printer. It has a good weight and doesn't curl like the Moab does (which has been taken off the market). I've been working with a profile supplied by Harman with some success. I need to refine the profile in the Canon drivers a bit. Right now it lacks a little contrast and has some difficulty in reproducing saturated reds and magentas. The paper also needs a couple of hours to "cure", it's changes substantially from the time of printing to a dry print. Cost is high but I think as similiar papers come to the market that should go down. They are definitely on the right track. Jim
-
I am going to be printing with the new Harman paper on the Canon Pixma Pro 9500 - which is virtually the scaled down version of the 5000 - it uses the same Lucia pigment -2 10 instead of 12]
There are no profiles on Harmans website for either the 9500 or the 5000. So I was going to get DigitalDog to make me one.
How are the results printing on the 9500 / 5000?
-
Cost is high but I think as similiar papers come to the market that should go down. They are definitely on the right track. Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140845\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The high cost of ink jet photo paper has always puzzled me. It seems to me that it's very much the same as wet process paper without the emulsion, which should make it cheaper to produce. But the best ink jet paper is significantly higher than traditional photo paper.
RGS
-
The high cost of ink jet photo paper has always puzzled me. It seems to me that it's very much the same as wet process paper without the emulsion, which should make it cheaper to produce. But the best ink jet paper is significantly higher than traditional photo paper.
RGS
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Because they can charge as much as the market will bear. We are willing to pay for premium paper and they know it. More competition will force the price down.
-
Question,
Do the Harman FB papers require MK or PK black inks on an Epson 7800? To date, I only print on matte papers and would only swap to the PK ink on pain of death. (waiting for the next next generation of Epson printers that will finally have both inks on line at the same time).
Also, are these papers available in 24" rolls or just sheets.
-
For the Harman Gloss FB you must use the PK cartridge. The matt Harman papers use the MK cartridge, as you would expect. The paper is available in 24" rolls.
John
-
Anyone who has used the paper on the Canon and Epson care to comment on how easily it scratches?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am expecting delivery of a box of the Harman Glossy FB AL any day now. I plan to profile it and print some tests on my Canon iPF5000. I can't say that I have any silver gelatin experience to compare to but I'll try to report my subjective results compared to other papers that I'm testing. I'll be looking at fragility also.
I'm looking forward to trying this paper!
Kalin
-
I am expecting delivery of a box of the Harman Glossy FB AL any day now. I plan to profile it and print some tests on my Canon iPF5000. I can't say that I have any silver gelatin experience to compare to but I'll try to report my subjective results compared to other papers that I'm testing. I'll be looking at fragility also.
I'm looking forward to trying this paper!
Kalin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140990\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am an IPF5000 owner and I am very interested in your results. Can you tell us what you will be using to profile the printer (hardware/software)? Is it possible to make the profile available to others here?
I have a box of the paper coming today, but as expensive as it is, and without the hardware to profile it, I worry that I will use up my 15 sheets tweaking the printer driver settings. It would be fantastic to have some guidelines about where to start with printer settings, and it would be nirvana to have an actual profile.
Thanks,
Kevin
-
finally a great glossy papers with no buts...
But !
i am currently using the epson 4800
i noticed that when i use it with the harman paper recommendation of "watercolor paper radiant white" the advanced black and white print option is not available; i therefore used the "premium glossy photo"setting and abw with excellent results; in color i used the harman recommended setting with my own eye one generated profiles with good results but i am wandering if anyone has tried other options
i would appreciate any comments
alexandros
-
finally a great glossy papers with no buts...
But !
i am currently using the epson 4800
i noticed that when i use it with the harman paper recommendation of "watercolor paper radiant white" the advanced black and white print option is not available; i therefore used the "premium glossy photo"setting and abw with excellent results; in color i used the harman recommended setting with my own eye one generated profiles with good results but i am wandering if anyone has tried other options
i would appreciate any comments
alexandros
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141260\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Alexandros:
I ordered a 50 ft roll of FB Al, but have not received it yet. I down loaded the Epson profiles for the Epson 7600 and 2200, from Harmon's site, and both say to select "Premium Glossy". After I receive the paper I will report back my results using the paper and canned profiles.
Regards
Dave G.
-
I am an IPF5000 owner and I am very interested in your results. Can you tell us what you will be using to profile the printer (hardware/software)? Is it possible to make the profile available to others here?
I have a box of the paper coming today, but as expensive as it is, and without the hardware to profile it, I worry that I will use up my 15 sheets tweaking the printer driver settings. It would be fantastic to have some guidelines about where to start with printer settings, and it would be nirvana to have an actual profile.
Thanks,
Kevin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141005\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Kevin,
I am profiling with an Eye-One Pro and I will use the Atkinson 1452 patch target. I don't mind making the profile available. I'll look at making it available via the wiki or by contacting me. I expect to have the paper early in the week. I'll holler when I have some results.
Kalin
-
I am profiling with an Eye-One Pro and I will use the Atkinson 1452 patch target. I don't mind making the profile available. I'll look at making it available via the wiki or by contacting me.
Can't have it on the Wiki, sorry. Would violate the EULA (license agreement) with Xrite.
--John
-
Can't have it on the Wiki, sorry. Would violate the EULA (license agreement) with Xrite.
--John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141335\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks, John. Took a look, you're right.
-
My tests were on my Epson R2400 with the standard K3 inkset, all in B/W from scanned medium format film, and printed via the Advanced B/W mode on the Epson (I do not use ICC profiles for B/W work). Out of the box, the paper looks and feels very good - it is crisp, has the right sort of "snap", and the surface is very smooth with a nice soft gloss.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=139386\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm another Epson R2400 owner. I bought a couple of sample packs of the Gloss FB AL from Freestyle Photographic Supplies on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood, CA. They are the local southern California purveyor of Harman papers. Price for the 15 sheet package of 8.5"x11" is US$24 and is US$48 for the 15 sheet pack of 11"x17".
I'm testing with the standard K3 inks using Harman's canned profile for the R2400 on both color and B&W prints. Initial results look very promising, in line with what others have reported. The look and feel of the paper definitely take me back to my B&W darkroom days.
Paul
-
Can't have it on the Wiki, sorry. Would violate the EULA (license agreement) with Xrite.
--John
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141335\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is something new to me--forgive me if I'm off topic; but are you saying that if you create a profile with Eye One you are constrained by the EULA from sharing it with others?
I ask truly from ignorance and not from a desire to be argumentative.
Thanks in advance.
-
This is something new to me--forgive me if I'm off topic; but are you saying that if you create a profile with Eye One you are constrained by the EULA from sharing it with others?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141403\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yup. The only exception is if you are creating the profile as part of a "profiling service", in which case you can make a profile for one person to use on one specific printer (by reading their specific target) and charge money for it. That's why Andrew Rodney and others who offer the service for money are within the EULA.
--John
-
John, thanks for clearing up the EULA issue for me.
I've made a few B&W prints with my test pack of this paper, on an Epson 4000 no less. Those of you who've printed with this printer know that its forte is definitely NOT glossy paper. Nevertheless, I was pretty pleased with the results.
ImagePrint as yet has no profiles for this paper on any printer as far as I can tell (I sent in my request); and Harman's canned profile for the 4000 produced a print with a marked greenish color cast. I finally tried Roy Harrington's QuadToneRIP with a curve for Epson Ultrasmooth (I think it was). This produced a slightly warm toned B&W print without any perceptible color cast. There was much less bronzing or gloss differential than I've seen with other glossy papers on this printer; what little there was I abolished easily with my usual two coats of Premier Art Spray.
I had no problem with damage to the surface from the printer's various wheels and sprockets; but I did notice a few places where the surface had a few dots of "stuff" on them, maybe little balls of something; so I think a gentle brushing with my draftsman's brush will be in order with this paper as with the fine-art rags I'm used to using.
The prints do indeed have a depth and richness of blacks that looks very much like silver gelatin. Not yet ready to pronounce them the end-all and be-all, but clearly we are making progress. Looking forward to comparing them with the other baryta papers soon to appear--isn't a Hahnemuhle version in the pipeline?
-
I ran across another Baryta paper which has just been announced:
Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk
Here is the link to Google cache of a creativepro.com article:
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:_T8nSw...clnk&cd=1&gl=us (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:_T8nSwFNimgJ:www.creativepro.com/story/news/25897.html+ilford+galerie+gold+fibre+silk&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us)
--John
-
I've just spent a week colour printing with the Harman Gloss FB AL paper and it's easily the best inkjet printer I've used to date and comes fairly close to traditional darkroom paper for quality. I can't report on what black & white prints are like as I still print these traditionally in the darkroom on Kentmere and Ilford FB papers.
I've used everything from Epson Premium to Hahnemuhle Rag / Permajet FB Royal and the colours, contrast and details are considerably better on the Harman, and as a bonus the paper is quite a bit cheaper than say FB Royal or RAG.
One thing that is a concern is how easily the paper marks. I print normally on both an Epson 3800 and R1800 but tried printing on a 7600 and it got scratched to hell. Also, the profiles on the Harman website, just like other paper manufacturers websites, were awful. QC was superb, every sheet was exactly the same in the box I purchased. Will be ordering more very soon.
-
One thing that is a concern is how easily the paper marks. I print normally on both an Epson 3800 and R1800 but tried printing on a 7600 and it got scratched to hell. Also, the profiles on the Harman website, just like other paper manufacturers websites, were awful. QC was superb, every sheet was exactly the same in the box I purchased. Will be ordering more very soon.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141527\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I print on a 7600 and had some problems until I set the platen width to Wide (a "W" will appear in the lower left corner of the printer's LCD). And, I found the profile terrific, no problem. Strangely enough, though, the image that comes up in the preview screen looks terrible. The first time, it took me a couple of minutes before I had the nerve to "push" the print button (the price of the sheet dancing in my head). But, in spite of the preview appearance, images print fine.
-
I print on a 7600 and had some problems until I set the platen width to Wide (a "W" will appear in the lower left corner of the printer's LCD). And, I found the profile terrific, no problem. Strangely enough, though, the image that comes up in the preview screen looks terrible. The first time, it took me a couple of minutes before I had the nerve to "push" the print button (the price of the sheet dancing in my head). But, in spite of the preview appearance, images print fine.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141550\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Has anyone tried to print the 24" x 50' roll in a 7600? I have a roll on order, and the surface scratch issue has me concerned. I use a 7600.
Dave
-
Has anyone tried to print the 24" x 50' roll in a 7600? I have a roll on order, and the surface scratch issue has me concerned. I use a 7600.
Dave
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141572\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The "scratches" on the Epsons are most likely head strikes, which can be eliminated by setting the platten gap wider and/or setting paper thickness thicker. With the x600 Epsons, it could also be wheel marks. You can tell which by which direction they run relative to printing directions. This can be alleviated by adding a bit of drying time to each pass, like 1/2 to 1 second. This slows down printing but alleviates the wheel marks.
Cheers,
-
I very occasionally get fine longitudinal scratches on a 9800 with lustre type media. The drying time is a good idea if you can afford the time. Scatches are only seen by looking against very low ange light. They disappear with a spray of Premier Art Print Sheild. I'm looking forward to seeing how the Harman goes. It would also be interesting to compare Harman with the Baryta based Ilford product, made in the same factory. It could be the same with packing for amateurs.
And, of course Hahnemuhle will have their answer. it will be interesting to see if Harman's alumina coatings will provide an edge in ink retention and sharpness. Then it may get back to printer accuracy and settings . I guess looking for that ultimate print has always been a tricky job..
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
-
It would also be interesting to compare Harman with the Baryta based Ilford product, made in the same factory. It could be the same with packing for amateurs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141639\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The relationship between Harman and Ilford is complicated, to say the least. When I posed the question to Ilford about their paper's relationship with Harman, I was told that the Galerie Gold Silk "has nothing to do with the Harman media". Apparently they had an agreement in the past where coatings from Harman went on Ilford media, but no longer. Both companies are using alumina and of course a baryta base. As of now Ilford is only releasing a gloss finish baryta, no matte.
-
It would also be interesting to compare Harman with the Baryta based Ilford product, made in the same factory. It could be the same with packing for amateurs. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141639\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have it on good authority that they are made in different factories in different countries.
-
I have it on good authority that they are made in different factories in different countries.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141672\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the correction , Scott.
I was told Harman used an Ilford coating factory and just assumed it was the same one.
Who makes the paper , who coats it and with what , seems to be one of the great secrets of 21C photography. There are a lot less mills, coating plants and formulations than the number of market products would suggest. It would be an interesting exercise to publish a table of origins -if anyone could sleuth it out!
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
PS If anyone takes this one up, I would be interested where the raw material comes from too....
-
Thanks for the correction , Scott.
I was told Harman used an Ilford coating factory and just assumed it was the same one.
Who makes the paper , who coats it and with what , seems to be one of the great secrets of 21C photography. There are a lot less mills, coating plants and formulations than the number of market products would suggest. It would be an interesting exercise to publish a table of origins -if anyone could sleuth it out!
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
PS If anyone takes this one up, I would be interested where the raw material comes from too....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141821\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Dear all,
Firstly, let me declare an interest: I am Technical Services Manager for HARMAN technology Ltd, the company which produces the HARMAN PHOTO range of inkjet papers, and the ILFORD PHOTO range of Monochrome photographic materials.
I can confirm that the HARMAN PHOTO inkjet papers are produced only in our factory here in the UK, alongside our ILFORD Monochrome photo products which have been manufactured here for many years and continue as a successful product line for us.
Our HARMAN PHOTO inkjet papers are coated on to the same photo base as our famous Monochrome Photographic papers such as ILFORD MULTIGRADE IV FB fibre and, in fact, they are coated on the very same coating machine, using our own formulations, developed and produced here in our factory.
The ILFORD range of colour photographic products, including ‘ILFORD Galerie’ inkjet media, is not manufactured or marketed by HARMAN technology, and remains a separate business operated by ILFORD Imaging based in Switzerland, a part of the Japanese OJI Paper Group.
I hope this is of interest
Nigel Player
-
Dear all,
The ILFORD range of colour photographic products, including ‘ILFORD Galerie’ inkjet media, is not manufactured or marketed by HARMAN technology, and remains a separate business operated by ILFORD Imaging based in Switzerland, a part of the Japanese OJI Paper Group.
I hope this is of interest
Nigel Player
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142200\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Very interesting. Thanks for the enlightenment. And , bravo on giving us a fabulous product we've been waiting for something like this for a long time.
Kindest regards,
Neil Snape.
-
Nigel,
Thanks indeed for supplying us with that information.
The fine art community has been looking for this sort of product for a long time.
I'm sure everyone wishes you and your colleagues well
Thanks
Brian Gilkes
Pharos Editions
-
Nigel,
I'm sure that you understand the warmth and affection that many of us have with your brand.
I greatly enjoyed pulling out the sheets of Harman FB Al from the trial pack and reading instructions on the sheet, printed with the same type and technical style as the traditional monochrome products.
Here's hoping that your new product becomes a world beater and keeps the UK in the business of manufacturing photographic media for decades to come.
....
I'm baffled about one thing though... why can't we buy A3 in packs of 50 sheets? It gets very expensive in terms of the 15 sheet packs. I've just set up my new portfolio for printing on A3 sheets...
-
I got a free sample pack of 3 A4 sheets with last Friday's British Journal of Photography (in the UK)
Brian Price
-
Please could somone tell me what settings to use with Harman FB Gloss on a z3100. I can not use GE with the FA Pearl setting and calibration fails if I use a standard gloss setting,
Thanks in advance
-
Please could somone tell me what settings to use with Harman FB Gloss on a z3100. I can not use GE with the FA Pearl setting and calibration fails if I use a standard gloss setting,
Thanks in advance
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143222\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hmmm...
I created a new custom paper type using the Fine Art Pearl with GE on and Best (600dpi). My Z3100 had no problem calibrating. I then generated my own profile using my hand held I1. (Since I am using sheet paper). So far so good.
hope this helps
Jim
-
Thanks Jim
GE is definetly shaded gray and off to off in the print settings custom dialogue if i use FA Pearl as the paper type. Any thoughts would be appreciated
Cheers
Ric
-
Nigel,
I'm sure that you understand the warmth and affection that many of us have with your brand.
I greatly enjoyed pulling out the sheets of Harman FB Al from the trial pack and reading instructions on the sheet, printed with the same type and technical style as the traditional monochrome products.
Here's hoping that your new product becomes a world beater and keeps the UK in the business of manufacturing photographic media for decades to come.
....
I'm baffled about one thing though... why can't we buy A3 in packs of 50 sheets? It gets very expensive in terms of the 15 sheet packs. I've just set up my new portfolio for printing on A3 sheets...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142883\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for your kind words. This product is going very well for us, and we love the feedback we are getting. Photography is what we are about.
In answer to your question about the 50 sheet packs, I have passed this on to my colleageus who manage our item range. If we see enough demand for a particular pack size, we will respond positively!
Best Regards
Nigel Player
-
Thanks for your kind words. This product is going very well for us, and we love the feedback we are getting. Photography is what we are about.
In answer to your question about the 50 sheet packs, I have passed this on to my colleageus who manage our item range. If we see enough demand for a particular pack size, we will respond positively!
Best Regards
Nigel Player
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143809\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
At the Paris photo show , I just looked at all the new media both Ilford and Harmon (of what they had). I brought home some matte samples, but will await the FA AL sample next week. Nice people , and nice products. Can't wait to try the Baryta.
-
I just received charts on Harmon FA AL . It has a nice aspect, of course as photographic as it gets. There is a draw back however. As with some other papers I've seen over the years, it has sort of bubbles or lifted areas dispersed in the coating. It's not the printer, it's the media. So albeit the nice surface you see these artifacts are unacceptable no matter the quality of printing. Could it be early samples, early production? Sure.
I'll have to see more samples. At the Paris expo, I did see marks on the surface telling me this media is fragile. The first rolls of Pro Satin HP had defects on the surface on 36" only if I remember right. They are no longer any defects on Pro Satin.
I think I saw some defects too on roll printed Ilford Gold Silk. Let's wait and see how it prints on the Z or 9180.
-
There is a draw back however. As with some other papers I've seen over the years, it has sort of bubbles or lifted areas dispersed in the coating. It's not the printer, it's the media. So albeit the nice surface you see these artifacts are unacceptable no matter the quality of printing. Could it be early samples, early production? Sure.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=144207\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Neil,
I've been only testing the 8.5" x 11" sample size but have so far not seen any surface defects in the paper.
Paul
-
Could someone comment on the differences between the Harman Gloss FB AL and the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl? From the canned profiles for each paper, it looks like they have a very similar color response with the Harman allowing deeper blacks. Also, is the Harman considerably more "glossy" than the Photo Rag Pearl? I have a sample pack coming of the Harman, but I would love to hear from someone who has used both papers.
-
Booksmart has a Harman Baryta Profile for the Canon IPF5000 now.
http://www.booksmartstudio.com/store/index...Path=72_217_225 (http://www.booksmartstudio.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=72_217_225)
$4.00 unless you buy paper from them, in which case it is free.
I will give it a try this afternoon, assuming the rest of my life doesn't get in the way.
Kevin
Could someone comment on the differences between the Harman Gloss FB AL and the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl? From the canned profiles for each paper, it looks like they have a very similar color response with the Harman allowing deeper blacks. Also, is the Harman considerably more "glossy" than the Photo Rag Pearl? I have a sample pack coming of the Harman, but I would love to hear from someone who has used both papers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=144379\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Are we close to a list of FB papers, Baryta (Barite) or Titanium Dioxide, matte, satin, gloss, and the way they behave on several printers ? Not an invitation for someone to try out all the papers available but a summary of collective experience could be made.
The manufacturers so far mentioned are correct ? > Hahnemuhle, Crane, Harman, Ilford, Sihl, Innova, Oriental, PremierArt, Moab, Ink Press, Lyson, ....
Without doubt some will be rebranded and it would be nice to know which ones.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=140122\")
Fuji(Hunt) has an FB paper too and Epson announces one today:
[a href=\"http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/printers/exhibition-fiber.shtml]http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/...ion-fiber.shtml[/url]
Ernst Dinkla
try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/)
-
Could someone comment on the differences between the Harman Gloss FB AL and the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl? From the canned profiles for each paper, it looks like they have a very similar color response with the Harman allowing deeper blacks.
Hi there, I am not sure if my current conclusion is exact enough and my english may lack the necessary precision in vocabulary, but I have tried a few sheets of Harman gloss Al plus 1 or 2 sheets of PhotoRag Pearl.
Comparing 2 papers is best when printing exactly the same file, which is not what I did, I preferred to profit of the few samples I had and printed different photos.
My impressions are as follows:
1. Harman gloss FB Al may be the best paper I have seen for inkjet - I have a new Epson 3800 here. It has a nice smooth and regular surface and a gloss which is not disturbing too much because the more regular surface avoids the "sprinkling" reflexions I get from the other "Baryt" clones I have tried over the last weeks. The blacks of the Harman are very deep, and the prints have a kind of clarity and sharpness that sets it apart from the other papers. Not by much, but visible.
What comes at a real surprise is that it smells like darkroom paper. Seems to be the Al coating. Although I have not nearly as much darkroom experience than many others here I definately like the smell...
2. Hahne Photorag pearl has a less regular surface the blacks are not as deep, it is less glossy than Harman, but the shagreened (hope the word is right) surface makes it more disturbing in my eyes. White is also warmer on the Hahne. I don't find it overly impressive.
3 . From all the other similar papers (seems that there are more every day being released, like Epsons brand new from yesterday's announcment) I tried and rate the others in the following order:
- Monoprint Rochester plus (95% of the Harman quality, probably only available in the german webshop monochrom.de)
- Innova Ultrasmooth gloss
- Sihl Baryt 285 (295?) - nice paper, but very (!) warm
- Permajet Royal 325g
I also received the Hahnemühle fineart Baryta and I am surprised but I find it clearly less attractive (surface again) than the Harman. To add something nice about Hahnemühle (after all I am German :-) - I really like their fineart matte papers.
Hope this helps
Bernie
-
- Sihl Baryt 285 (295?) - nice paper, but very (!) warm
Bernie
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=144712\")
Bernhard,
You are the third one to mention the Sihl as tested. I like it too but on the Z3100 it needs the gloss enhancer to take away all the gloss difference and bronzing. The paper needs some extra gloss anyway but I wonder whether the 3800 inks show no gloss difference or bronzing on that paper. The Leica LFI magazine doesn't mention that aspect at all for the papers tested including the Sihl and they used an Epson R2400. I do not think that all the papers they tested were free of that kind of gloss issues. So that test lacks some of the German "Gründlichkeit" that made the Leica image in the world so indestructible :-)
Ernst Dinkla
try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]