Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: seanw on July 20, 2007, 01:30:18 pm
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Hi all,
I just acquired a Mamiya 645 AFDII to use primarily for landscapes and would appreciate some help on lens selection. Image quality is more important to me than having autofocus. I know there are a lot of used manual focus 645 lenses out there for much less than their autofocus counterparts. Do the newer AF lenses provide better image quality?
Any recommendations on the best lenses for an AFDII in terms of image quality (whether manual or AF)?
Thanks.
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I moved up to medium format earlier this year and use a Mamiya 645 AFD II with a P30+ back. Here’s a list of lens that I currently have: 35, 80, 150, 210, 300, all Mamiya as well as a Hartblei T/S Super-Rotator. I use all of these lenses for landscape with no problems. All the lens except the 300 and Hartblei are AF. You’re much better off buying AF lens where you can. All of these lenses were brought off E-Bay and are of very good quality and less expensive. Good choice on the body!
don
Mamiya 210 1/45s @f/22 ISO 100
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Last year I upgraded from a Mamiya 645 Pro to the 645AF and a Phase One P45. I have kept several of my manual focus lenses but have added some new auto focus lenses, too.
I shoot mostly landscape and focus manually in most situations. To enable the most accurate focusing I have installed the "Type C" focus screen.
I have found that the Manual Focus lenses provide the best or most critical focusing ability when focusing manually. Why? Because the auto focus lenses' focus ring must only travel about 90 degrees to change the focus from minimum to maximum (i.e. say from 2ft to infinity) while the manual focus lenses' focus rings travel through about 180 degrees.
So, as a result, small adjustments in focus can be more carefully carried out on the manual focus lesnes because a small change in rotation of the ring results in a smaller and more predictable change in focus.
I wish it were otherwise.
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I also use both auto & manual focus lenses with my ZD camera.
My experience differs from Jack's. What he says is so for the AF 35/3.5 - the focus ring only rotates about 90 deg - however I've not found manual focussing with this lens to be a problem. The ring on the AF 300/4.5 rotates through 180 deg and the AF 80/2.8 and AF 150/3.5 have approximately 120 deg rotation. So far (~ 1,400 frames with the ZD) I've found manual focussing with all of them to be easy and accurate.
I've found that stop-down metering with the manual focus lenses is perfectly feasible for landscape photography, however it does add another step to the routine. Another small drawback with the manual focus lenses is that the aperture setting is not recorded in the Exif data. Also slightly annoying is that the rear lens caps from the manual focus lenses will not properly fit the AF lenses.
My understanding is that the AF lenses are optically identical to their 'N' series manual focus equivalents. The later 'N' series lenses are generally superior to the original 'C' series.
Though I'm happy enough using the manual focus lenses, overall I do prefer the AF versions even though I do manually focus them most of the time.
As for the best lenses, I agree with what seems to be a general consensus. The 35/3.5 is OK but not stellar, while the rest of them are excellent. I have no experience with the zooms.
Regards
Frank
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Don't forget that if you're OK with stop down metering, there's a world of very fine Zeiss glass available to you on the AFDII in inexpensively adapted Pentacon and Hasselblad mounts.
The Flektogon 50mm, Arsat 55mm Shift, Biometar 80mm / 120mm and the Sonnar 180mm are are superb in P6; and every Hasselblad bar the older 40mm and very old 50mm lenses are about as good as it gets. The Arsat 30mm Fisheye isn't bad, either, especially compared to the 24mm Mamiya.
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Mark:
What adapters are you using for the Pentax and Zeiss lenses?
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I also use both auto & manual focus lenses with my ZD camera.
My experience differs from Jack's. What he says is so for the AF 35/3.5 - the focus ring only rotates about 90 deg - however I've not found manual focussing with this lens to be a problem. The ring on the AF 300/4.5 rotates through 180 deg and the AF 80/2.8 and AF 150/3.5 have approximately 120 deg rotation. So far (~ 1,400 frames with the ZD) I've found manual focussing with all of them to be easy and accurate.
I've found that stop-down metering with the manual focus lenses is perfectly feasible for landscape photography, however it does add another step to the routine. Another small drawback with the manual focus lenses is that the aperture setting is not recorded in the Exif data. Also slightly annoying is that the rear lens caps from the manual focus lenses will not properly fit the AF lenses.
My understanding is that the AF lenses are optically identical to their 'N' series manual focus equivalents. The later 'N' series lenses are generally superior to the original 'C' series.
Though I'm happy enough using the manual focus lenses, overall I do prefer the AF versions even though I do manually focus them most of the time.
As for the best lenses, I agree with what seems to be a general consensus. The 35/3.5 is OK but not stellar, while the rest of them are excellent. I have no experience with the zooms.
Regards
Frank
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129254\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I notice the new AF 120mm Macro is not an APO vs the older manual focus which is. I don't know if it's true, but doesn't that imply that the older manual lens may be better?
Any hands on experience?
Thx,
Don
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I notice the new AF 120mm Macro is not an APO vs the older manual focus which is. I don't know if it's true, but doesn't that imply that the older manual lens may be better?
Any hands on experience?
Thx,
Don
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129305\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry Don, I don't have any experience with the 120 macros - yet.
Regards
Frank
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Hi
The 120 lens even though it is manual is one of the sharpest Mamiya has.
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Hi everyone,
When talking about the Mamiya 28mm lens, do you need to take a crop factor into account?
Or is the 28mm a marketing tool? Since the 28mm is a digital lens...has Mamiya taken the crop factor in account while naming this lens?
Mamiya posts 2 equivalents to 35mm (for this lens) on its site: 17mm and 20mm. Does anyone know exactly?
Just to understand where I'm coming from, I need a 20mm (for full frame DSRL) equivalent for a future medium format system.
regards
Mike W
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Mike:
It is a 28mm lens on any camera. You have to add the crop factor of the back you are using - the Phase back is 1.1x for the p-45 but it is different for the p-30. The ZD back has a different crop factor also, and obviously if using it on an RZ it would be something else. So you have to know the camera/back combo before you can figure out how wide it really is in fullframe 35mm terms...
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Thanks for the reply, Ternst.
The 28 would have a 1.1X factor on the ZD then, since it houses the same sized sensor as the P45. Oh well, it's still a wide enough angle (for me at least, thats a personal preference).
I should have specified wich DB I would like to use, I chose the backs with "only" a 1.1 factor, since anything else restricts wide-angle lenses.
Hasselblad's 28mm for the H3D is a actual 28mm (no crop) according to Khun K, over at the HCD 4/28 vs HC 3.5/35 topic.
Here's the link for those that are interested:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=18345 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18345)
regards
Mike
Mike:
It is a 28mm lens on any camera. You have to add the crop factor of the back you are using - the Phase back is 1.1x for the p-45 but it is different for the p-30. The ZD back has a different crop factor also, and obviously if using it on an RZ it would be something else. So you have to know the camera/back combo before you can figure out how wide it really is in fullframe 35mm terms...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129396\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi
The 120 lens even though it is manual is one of the sharpest Mamiya has.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=129376\")
Denis,
Firstly, congrats on your recent award.
Secondly, is the 120 you're referring to the APO version?
[a href=\"http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/126972-REG/Mamiya_210227_20mm_f_4_APO_Macro.html]http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1269..._APO_Macro.html[/url]
or
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/2133...Macro_Lens.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/213302-REG/Mamiya_210605_120mm_f_4_Macro_Lens.html)
Thanks,
Don
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Sorry for maybe a dumb question but you all have lost me. I was always told that you cannot use the Manual focus len's with the Mmaiya AFDII.
I have all the LEAFSHUTTER lens for the ProTL 55/80/150 and was told there is no way to use them unless I get a HASSIE back for Pro TL.
I sure miss syncing at 500/th and have even been contemplating going with a RZPro D just to have the ability to sync at 400/th.
Can some one Prove me and them wrong.
I would appreciate any help on thias I am on the move to Medium Format Digital very soon. Still looking at the P30+ or P25 +
For the Price the ZD looks temtping but the P+ series higher ISO/ASA is supposed to be stellar compared to the regular P series.
CAn anybody give me a professional commetn on their experiences...
I would be happier than a pig in mud if I could use my Leafshutter lens on a Mamiya AFDII?
Thanks alot
Snook
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Snook,
Seems like if you really need to know the fastest and most acurate way to find out woud be to call or email the distributor. In the USA it is the MAC Group.
Try http://www.mamiya.com/customerservice.asp?id=3&id2=105 (http://www.mamiya.com/customerservice.asp?id=3&id2=105)
for their contact information.
However, the M645 lsnses certainly must work, in manual stop-down mode, on the AFDII because the Mamiya site lists the Type C Focus Screen as an accessory for the AFDII. The Type C screen is required to use the manual lenses on the AFDII and the AFD. Mamiya site has this info-
"Microprism Type C for Non-AF 645 Lenses
Same as Matte, but with central microprism spot added. Provides an alternative Rangefinder Spot screen for enhanced focusing precision with the manual focus lenses. When using the manual focus lenses in the stop down metering mode, this screen must be used.
Cat. #211-713 "
Hope this helps.
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I used the 80/4macro and 120/4 macro on my AFD. Both are M645 lenses which can be used but only stopped down.
RZ and RB lenses are different and cannot be used on the AFD (II) as far as I know.
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The maybe it is on the AFDII body. I have the 55/80/150 Leafshutter lens
Anybody know if there is anyway of using them on a AFDII?
Via adaptor or whatever?
Thanks for any further assistants.
Snook
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Snook, read my post third above this one. If you are not convinced visit the Mamiya site and see for yourself.
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Hey Beach and all.. I do not usually trust what the developer says...
That is why I am wondering if anybody has any actual experience using a leafshutter on the AFDII.
Also there are many who make adapters and such that the Manufactuer does not recommend but work. So I usually never go to the site to look.
I am sure that has happened to you.
Plus I was told by several people(On other forums) that it does not work.
Anyways was looking for real life experience, not what the developer says.
You were really helpful beach. Cough cough
Thanks a lot.
After all why would someone start a thread 645 AF vs MF when they can go to the developer themselves and see the difference.
One you have to Manual focus with your hands and the other does it automatically...
That is what it says on the developers site.. You see what I mean.
Snook
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Sorry for maybe a dumb question but you all have lost me. I was always told that you cannot use the Manual focus len's with the Mmaiya AFDII.
I have all the LEAFSHUTTER lens for the ProTL 55/80/150 and was told there is no way to use them unless I get a HASSIE back for Pro TL.
I sure miss syncing at 500/th and have even been contemplating going with a RZPro D just to have the ability to sync at 400/th.
Can some one Prove me and them wrong.
I would appreciate any help on thias I am on the move to Medium Format Digital very soon. Still looking at the P30+ or P25 +
For the Price the ZD looks temtping but the P+ series higher ISO/ASA is supposed to be stellar compared to the regular P series.
CAn anybody give me a professional commetn on their experiences...
I would be happier than a pig in mud if I could use my Leafshutter lens on a Mamiya AFDII?
Thanks alot
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=130409\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Snook,
I am in the exact same boat as you and I am narrowing down my choices to Hasselblad or Sinar backs as them are the only MFDB manufacturers supporting the Mamiya Pro TL. Phase does not supprt the Mamiya Pro and I don't understand why the Leaf does not make a adapter as well, they make a adapter for the RB67 go figure that one . Anyway, you can use the leaf shutter lenses on the AFDII you just have to manually cock them and the stop down method of aperture selection is real suckie. AS soon as my divorce is resolved l will be finally be in MFDB heaven
db
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Thanks DB.
I had to manually do it when I use the Pentax 6X7 Leafshutter lens.. yeh a drag but I sure Miss sync at higher Speed than 250th Canon when your lucky. Or the AFD is I think 125./th.. What a joke
Are we going backwards these days.
There are MANY MANY photographers that like to sync in daylight with high speeds. Why are all the company's lower that instead of making it better and faster..
I just do not get it.
I was looking into the RZIIproD just to be able to sync at 400./th
But it is a cumbersome camera outside the studio... And not muuch wide angle option!
Is there no other options!!! Jeez.
Why and how much does one have to stop down? One stop?
Lets say I want to shoot at 500/th F11.. you mean I have to shoot at F16?
In any case hope your divorce goes well so you can get started with MFDB...:+}
Snook
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I have all the LEAFSHUTTER lens for the ProTL 55/80/150 and was told there is no way to use them unless I get a HASSIE back for Pro TL.[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=130409\")
Sinar backs list the Pro TL as an option
[a href=\"http://www.sinar.ch/site/index__gast-e-1780-50-1901.html]http://www.sinar.ch/site/index__gast-e-1780-50-1901.html[/url]
To go over the compatability thing again
MF lenses fit on the AFD , you have to stop them down before you shoot which is OK with say the 80 at f4 but no good with the 35 at f11 because the view is so dark
I beleive you cannot use the higher synch speed of the leaf lenses
I think the ProTL is an interesting option for a camera offering both shift and fast synch lenses at bucket prices but I found the screen to be way too dark compared to my H1
S
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Sinar backs list the Pro TL as an option
http://www.sinar.ch/site/index__gast-e-1780-50-1901.html (http://www.sinar.ch/site/index__gast-e-1780-50-1901.html)
To go over the compatability thing again
MF lenses fit on the AFD , you have to stop them down before you shoot which is OK with say the 80 at f4 but no good with the 35 at f11 because the view is so dark
I beleive you cannot use the higher synch speed of the leaf lenses
I think the ProTL is an interesting option for a camera offering both shift and fast synch lenses at bucket prices but I found the screen to be way too dark compared to my H1
S
Yes, I agree the focusing is dimmer but not that much to me, what I like is the real estate in the view finder over the 35mm dslr's view finder. Composition and focusing seems so much better.
db
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