Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: RicAgu on June 17, 2007, 12:26:07 am
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Hello All,
I was wondering if anyone knew the magnification of the RZ lenses on the a 645 Digi chip back.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
50mm=
65mm=
90mm=
110mm=
127mm=
140mm=
250mm=
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dividide the diagonal of the 6x7 film field with the diagonal of the 36x48mm chip and
multiply the focal length with that factor ( app. factor 1,4 ).
Hello All,
I was wondering if anyone knew the magnification of the RZ lenses on the a 645 Digi chip back.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
50mm=
65mm=
90mm=
110mm=
127mm=
140mm=
250mm=
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123237\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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i use the RZ all the time with my P30....if you are even thinking of doing anything wide...forget it....i have the 127, the 140 and the 180...i have been thinking of getting something wider...the 90 is nice, there is also a 75 (non T/S) that is nice....but i ususally use the 645 for this kind of shot anyway.....
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I think the widest on the RZ would be the 50mm ULD, which would become something like a 73mm lens with a "645" chip.
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The best solution for a digital back is an AFD 645. It has a 1.1 "Crop Factor" with the P 25. Also Mamiya, is coming with an interesting 35mm. I have the 28mm and is a nice lens.
It would be interesting for someone to "invent" a body for all the ZD and RB lenses in existence. They all work as a view camera, with leaf shutter. That way you could have something like Hasselblad has, a non-reflex shift tilt camera.
The advantage would be that you could exploit all the potential of the 6 x 7 optics by shifting and stitching.
Mechanically such a camera is probably easy to make... by the way, there is a fish eye made for the RB..
I think the widest on the RZ would be the 50mm ULD, which would become something like a 73mm lens with a "645" chip.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123600\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Here are some conversions with a 36 x 48 chip filled in your chart:
(the 35mm conversions are approx. because of the format difference 4x5 vs 3x20
Hello All,
I was wondering if anyone knew the magnification of the RZ lenses on the a 645 Digi chip back.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
50mm= 57mm (36mm in 35mm terms)
65mm= 74mm (46mm in 35mm terms)
90mm= 103mm (64mm in 35mm terms)
110mm=126mm (79mm in 35mm terms)
140mm= 160mm (100mm in 35mm terms)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123237\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thaks for all the information!
Now I just need Leaf to step up to the plate and complete the testing on the H1 to RZ plate that is in production.
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Can these be possibly correct?
6x7 is 56mmx69mm (Pentax standard and Mamiya is a hair larger).
So, talking only for the short sides, the lens factor or ratio is 56mm/36mm=1.56.
Your 50mm lens becomes a 78mm but with little bit longer (1:1.33 vs 1:1.25) view.
Here are some conversions with a 36 x 48 chip filled in your chart:
(the 35mm conversions are approx. because of the format difference 4x5 vs 3x20
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123607\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Can these be possibly correct?
6x7 is 56mmx69mm (Pentax standard and Mamiya is a hair larger).
So, talking only for the short sides, the lens factor or ratio is 56mm/36mm=1.56.
Your 50mm lens becomes a 78mm but with little bit longer (1:1.33 vs 1:1.25) view.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, it doesn't really matter what the original format of the RZ is since the question was related to using a 36x48mm digital back. In that case the lenses behave just like on a 645 camera. Since the chip is smaller than 645 film ( multiplier 1.15 ) the lenses behave like on a 645 camera with that multiplier.
A 50mm lens is a 50mm lens on any camera ( 6x7, 645 or 35mm) It's the field of view that changes in function of the size of the capture medium. In case of 35mm format you could measure either the shorter or longer side to make a comparison, depending on what's is more important to you.
In portraiture a 4x5 vertical format makes visually more sense while in landscape and architecture photography a 3x2 horizontal format is visually more pleasing.
I.e. when I use my Canon 1Ds with a 80mm lens for a vertical portrait in the studio, I get the same framing as with a 110mm lens on my AFD 645 or Mamiya RZ with an Aptus Back. ( minus the top and bottom part of the 35mm frame).
If you would stick an old PhaseOne H10 back on a Mamiya RZ with a 50mm lens you would get the exact same field of view as with the 1Ds and a 50mm lens since that sensor is 24x36mm like a full frame 35mm.
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Thaks for all the information!
Now I just need Leaf to step up to the plate and complete the testing on the H1 to RZ plate that is in production.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123629\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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by the way, there is a fish eye made for the RB..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
And one made for the RZ.
With our quest to find great performing wide angle lenses, the fisheye doesn't really count in this case because, well, it's a fisheye.
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Hey Andre,
Thanks for the offer.
I have been talking to Eco Digital since fall 2005. They are very difficult to deal with and the plates are way over priced. There were a few defective ones that arived here and I was not too excited about them.
Leaf has been developing a plate to release for their H1 mounted A75's to work on RZ. I believe that it will be to use with out cables with the RZ Pro IID. But this is pure speculation about the no cable thing. If it was a straight plate I think it would be out already.
The have said it is in the final stages since April. So hopefully soon. Plus the Leaf plate will be $700-$800. Instead of $1,500.00.
Best,
RA
There is a company in Japan that makes rotating plates for H1/Rz. Excellent product. I use it everyday on A75/h1 attached to my Rz67. Love it. You shoot once RZ digital and your images from h1 look like Canon production afterwards. Also focusing with this huge RZ WLF is just so much fun.
I am back to 95% of sharp images - wide open.
50mm is a beautiful lens. You get unmistakeable very wide angle drawing. If you need a contact that let me know.
The plate is about $1500.
http://andrenapier.com/ (http://andrenapier.com/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123856\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hey Andre,
Thanks for the offer.
I have been talking to Eco Digital since fall 2005. They are very difficult to deal with and the plates are way over priced. There were a few defective ones that arived here and I was not too excited about them.
Leaf has been developing a plate to release for their H1 mounted A75's to work on RZ. I believe that it will be to use with out cables with the RZ Pro IID. But this is pure speculation about the no cable thing. If it was a straight plate I think it would be out already.
The have said it is in the final stages since April. So hopefully soon. Plus the Leaf plate will be $700-$800. Instead of $1,500.00.
Best,
RA
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=123875\")
With all the fairness to ECO I was one of the first ones to receive their plate through US Phase One dealer Dave Gallagher from Atlanta. I returned the original plate and made a lot of noise that was heard on internet. There were problems with cable connections and not with the plate itself.
With Aptus however there is no additional connections needed and mechaniclly the plate is just a piece of art. Comunicating with ECO Company is a problem due only to language barrier as they using electronic translators. I order two plates for myself so far and both came in a matter of 7 days via Express Mail. No problem whatsoever. I can clearly recommend them.
[a href=\"http://AndreNapier.com/]http://AndreNapier.com/[/url]
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I no longer look at crop factor since all focal length does not change; a 50 mm is a 50 mm. What change is the sensor and therefore if I am going to work with a 645 sensor what lens in my RZ line up will match the 645 lens? The widest angle you can get with the RZ system is a 50 mm lens. Thus, that is lightly wider than my 55 mm Mamiya AF 645 lens; this would be your max wide angle perspective. Thus, this is one of the reason why larger format cameras are not as popular as smaller format since ditigal medium integration; the limitation is the cost of sensor size. Back in the film day building a larger camera meant you do not have to build a shorter focal length for the wide capture. In digital age we now see shorter focal length are being introduced to the market such as the Mamiya ASPH 28 mm and others to compensate for the smaller sensor.
-Son
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Andre,
Thanks for that info. I will have to reconsider it and look back at ECO, but the $1,500.00 for the plate was a bit stiff since Mamiya will be $800.00. You say you don't need any cables using the Aptus 75 with the RZ. Do you use an RZ Pro IID or the regular Pro II? Your Aptus is mounted for the H1?
Thanks,
Ric
With all the fairness to ECO I was one of the first ones to receive their plate through US Phase One dealer Dave Gallagher from Atlanta. I returned the original plate and made a lot of noise that was heard on internet. There were problems with cable connections and not with the plate itself.
With Aptus however there is no additional connections needed and mechaniclly the plate is just a piece of art. Comunicating with ECO Company is a problem due only to language barrier as they using electronic translators. I order two plates for myself so far and both came in a matter of 7 days via Express Mail. No problem whatsoever. I can clearly recommend them.
http://AndreNapier.com/ (http://AndreNapier.com/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123941\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Andre,
Thanks for that info. I will have to reconsider it and look back at ECO, but the $1,500.00 for the plate was a bit stiff since Mamiya will be $800.00. You say you don't need any cables using the Aptus 75 with the RZ. Do you use an RZ Pro IID or the regular Pro II? Your Aptus is mounted for the H1?
Thanks,
Ric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123955\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Actually, there IS a benefit to using the RZ ProIID.
Phase One already sells a plate that works electronically with a Mamiya 645AFD-mount back on the RZ ProIID - with no cables.
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Actually, there IS a benefit to using the RZ ProIID.
Phase One already sells a plate that works electronically with a Mamiya 645AFD-mount back on the RZ ProIID - with no cables.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
yes and it works perfectly....i use it all the time....the option to switch back and forth between RZ and 645 is a dream....
the plate also rotates the back on the RZ, just like the film backs do, set the RZ to "R" and turn the back....that is the only option for a rotating back as far as i know...i was hoping the Hy6 would have it, but it does not...one has to take the back off and re-attach it...
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Actually, there IS a benefit to using the RZ ProIID.
Phase One already sells a plate that works electronically with a Mamiya 645AFD-mount back on the RZ ProIID - with no cables.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124023\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I was just reffering to Aptus use, you are absolutly correct with Phase back and IId.
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yes and it works perfectly....i use it all the time....the option to switch back and forth between RZ and 645 is a dream....
the plate also rotates the back on the RZ, just like the film backs do, set the RZ to "R" and turn the back....that is the only option for a rotating back as far as i know...i was hoping the Hy6 would have it, but it does not...one has to take the back off and re-attach it...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124024\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
ECO plate rotates the same way.
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Actually, there IS a benefit to using the RZ ProIID.
Phase One already sells a plate that works electronically with a Mamiya 645AFD-mount back on the RZ ProIID - with no cables.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124023\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This Mamiya-made plate lets any Mamiya AFD-fit back work on the ProIId without the sync cable.
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This Mamiya-made plate lets any Mamiya AFD-fit back work on the ProIId without the sync cable.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
yair, are there any issues with this setup? can you out shoot the back? does it work with phase well (i guess pss will be able to tell me that.).
the idea of having a leaf shutter, slow working but deliberate camera like the rz, then being able to use the afd with fast f1.9 lenses for different shooting is quite appealing. i dont really like the feel of the afd, but the options may out weigh it.
paul
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This Mamiya-made plate lets any Mamiya AFD-fit back work on the ProIId without the sync cable.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124089\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yair
The Phase backs work perfectly with the Mamiya adapter. The Leaf Aptus backs work only tethered. and NOT untethered. I had been promised a fix for this but never heard back from Leaf.
So please don't recommend this combination with a Leaf back.
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yair, are there any issues with this setup? can you out shoot the back? does it work with phase well (i guess pss will be able to tell me that.).
the idea of having a leaf shutter, slow working but deliberate camera like the rz, then being able to use the afd with fast f1.9 lenses for different shooting is quite appealing. i dont really like the feel of the afd, but the options may out weigh it.
paul
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you canot outshoot the back....the phase backs do not require a cable....the adapterplate i have is a phase item....there is a lot of confusion out there about this....mamiya makes one as well, but they had not tested it with phase backs at the time i bought mine....i got mine from phase....it rotates, no cables.....the only thing is that the camera has to be shut off when not in use, because the plate drains the little lith.battery in the RZ body....even without the back attached...don't ask me why....so always remember to turn the camera and always have an extra battery (duh....).....
yes the option to use the 645 for fast shooting and switch to the RZ is great...the RZ also has 1/400 so that takes care of the only real problem with the mamiya set-up.....now if the 645 only had a vertical grip.....
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A little over a year ago I switched from the RZ to the 645 system. My main reason was to take advantage of the wider lenses available, the 37mm fisheye is the widest available with the RZ while with the 645 there is both the 35mm and 24mm fisheye. Soon we'll have the 28mm to use. In both automotive and architecture photography I've used the 24mm and then corrected the barrel distortion with Image Align. It works very well. There is some softness at two of the edges when the image is corrected but since the lens is so wide (180 degree field of view) even with some cropping the resulting field of view is tremendous. Both the attached images were accomplished with the 24mm fisheye. The only disadvantage I've found is the lack of bellows on the 645. With the RZ any lens can be focused quite closely which isn't the case with all the 645 lenses. [attachment=2663:attachment][attachment=2664:attachment]