Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: rainer_v on June 16, 2007, 07:20:47 pm
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i took some first testshots with my new e75LV,- although i have not tried the live view option.
aside that live view there is a new electronic and new AD converter built in the back.
the results seem to be great.
very good iso 400 files now and very good shadows. good improvement over the e75 here .... ( with which i already was very content in my daily work ). but i never used higher isos with it.
at least for arial shootings i can use them now without thinking about noise ......
and at base iso the DR is simply fantastic now
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Enjoy your new back! I'm looking forward to seeing whether the 54LV is worth the upgrade over the e22.
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Enjoy your new back! I'm looking forward to seeing whether the 54LV is worth the upgrade over the e22.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=123200\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
if it will be a similar difference it will be worth ....
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I've just send my e-75 to Sinar to get upgraded to the LV version as well.
The usable 400 ASA sounds promising.
Cheers,
Willem.
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live view is usable even in daylight , but the lens has to be stoped down to f32 or has to be used with ND filters ( 1.5 - 2.4 ) for the hi-sensitivity of the live view.
the new macbooks pro with the lcd display ( 15" ) are now bright enough t be used outsde in daylight conditions. this might be usefull.
in contrary to my first impressions the iso sensitivity seems to be more or less the same with the e75lv than with the normal e75.
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hi Rainer,
about the LV: with the new Sinar Hy6 it will be possible to have a perfect image. When I say perfect I mean the same quality as when used with a LC Shiutter in front of the lens. The Sinar Hy6 allows the activation and use of the lens shutter when one needs perfect quality: the speed of the shutter is controled automatically depending on the ambient light. No need anymore to stop down or to use ND filters.
Kind regards,
Thierry
live view is usable even in daylight , but the lens has to be stoped down to f32 or has to be used with ND filters ( 1.5 - 2.4 ) for the hi-sensitivity of the live view.
the new macbooks pro with the lcd display ( 15" ) are now bright enough t be used outsde in daylight conditions. this may be usefull.
in contrary to my first impressions the iso sensitivity seems to be more or less the same with the e75lv than with the normal e75.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127558\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi Rainer,
I was under the impression that to operate the Live video you required Captureshop 5.5 which is yet to be released. How did you manage to test it?
regards David
live view is usable even in daylight , but the lens has to be stoped down to f32 or has to be used with ND filters ( 1.5 - 2.4 ) for the hi-sensitivity of the live view.
the new macbooks pro with the lcd display ( 15" ) are now bright enough t be used outsde in daylight conditions. this may be usefull.
in contrary to my first impressions the iso sensitivity seems to be more or less the same with the e75lv than with the normal e75.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127558\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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hi David,
with each eMotion 54LV/75LV or eVolution 75 there is a CS 5.5 Beta (or RC). The release of CS 5.5 should be within a few days.
Best regards,
Thierry
Hi Rainer,
I was under the impression that to operate the Live video you required Captureshop 5.5 which is yet to be released. How did you manage to test it?
regards David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127574\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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in contrary to my first impressions the iso sensitivity seems to be more or less the same with the e75lv than with the normal e75.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127558\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Could you expand on this please. equally noisy or what?
I am considering upgrading my E22 to a 54LV or the biggee
most intereted in any pictures taken in quite dark surrondings
like person in a car on an overcast day (no flash hand held so min 60th) or posing inside using just windowlight
I think most cameras pull a decent image even on thier higest ISO in a bright environment
shooting at 1000 at 32 instead of 500 at 16 has no appeal to me
SMM
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its a different upgrade for the e22 to e54lv than the e75 to the e75lv, so it is not comparable.
with the e75 noise level is similar, but live view is added. with the e22 - 54 the thing can be totally different, cause i think there is exchanged the electronics. better you ask thierry for details.
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its a different upgrade for the e22 to e54lv than the e75 to the e75lv, so it is not comparable.
with the e75 noise level is similar, but live view is added. with the e22 - 54 the thing can be totally different, cause i think there is exchanged the electronics. better you ask thierry for details.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127878\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
OK but thiery is a seller not a user.
Another way of putting the question to anyone ..
I find the E22 too slow (ie I always use it at 50) for handheld work in natural overcast/shady/moody light
An environment I always expected to be using a DSLR !
Would an upgrade to ANY sinar back sort this out or do I look elsewhere for decent shots at 400
My options are an upgrade, a 5d, a 1ds or maybe a 1ds2 or maybe a trade to P30+, an H3D?? I own no canon lenses and love 'full frame' 645 of the E22
I am happy with my E22 for bright/lit situations, own no canon lenses and not obsessed by file size - although I find my other camera D200 a bit dinky for file size it doesnt really stand up to a nice DPS vs the E22 or my legacy stuff (proback and SLRn)
ps the upgrade E33 to 75LV was quoted by TH as around $2000 I have been quoted 3X this by the uk dealer for the E22 to 54LV upgrade
I am going to start a new thread..
SMM
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Dear Sam,
first f all I understand your questions, and shall answer them as soon as I have some reliable information. I do not wish to specualte here.
About the "quotation": I did not give a quotation, but have informed about the average upgrade price of the eMotion 75 to 75 LV. And I had given also an important precision: that those prices are Swiss Enduser prices wich may vary from country to country.
Then, an eMotion 75 upgrade is not the same as going from eMotion 22 to eMotion 54LV: here it is a complete new back which you will get. Thus the price is also higher.
I shall come back to you later.
Best regards,
Thierry
OK but thiery is a seller not a user.
Another way of putting the question to anyone ..
I find the E22 too slow (ie I always use it at 50) for handheld work in natural overcast/shady/moody light
An environment I always expected to be using a DSLR !
Would an upgrade to ANY sinar back sort this out or do I look elsewhere for decent shots at 400
My options are an upgrade, a 5d, a 1ds or maybe a 1ds2 or maybe a trade to P30+, an H3D?? I own no canon lenses and love 'full frame' 645 of the E22
I am happy with my E22 for bright/lit situations, own no canon lenses and not obsessed by file size - although I find my other camera D200 a bit dinky for file size it doesnt really stand up to a nice DPS vs the E22 or my legacy stuff (proback and SLRn)
ps the upgrade E33 to 75LV was quoted by TH as around $2000 I have been quoted 3X this by the uk dealer for the E22 to 54LV upgrade
I am going to start a new thread..
SMM
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127951\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Sam,
first f all I understand your questions, and shall answer them as soon as I have some reliable information. I do not wish to specualte here.
About the "quotation": I did not give a quotation, but have informed about the average upgrade price of the eMotion 75 to 75 LV. And I had given also an important precision: that those prices are Swiss Enduser prices wich may vary from country to country.
Then, an eMotion 75 upgrade is not the same as going from eMotion 22 to eMotion 54LV: here it is a complete new back which you will get. Thus the price is also higher.
I shall come back to you later.
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127965\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am doing another thread on this - I have a quote from your UK 'dealer'
But my thoughts is that the quote is similar to the price of a 1dsMK2 - I cant afford both - and that is stiff competition indeed for someone who is very happy with the E22 at low ISO
The quotes are E22 to 54LV £3000
E22 to 75LV £14000 (is this right?????????????????) (out of budget)
S
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Dear Sam,
there is no such "upgrade" from e22 to e75 LV: this runs under trade-ins
Best regards,
Thierry
I am doing another thread on this - I have a quote from your UK 'dealer'
But my thoughts is that the quote is similar to the price of a 1dsMK2 - I cant afford both - and that is stiff competition indeed for someone who is very happy with the E22 at low ISO
The quotes are E22 to 54LV £3000
E22 to 75LV £14000 (is this right?????????????????) (out of budget)
S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Sam,
there is no such "upgrade" from e22 to e75 LV: this runs under trade-ins
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127968\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well I hope readers here note your post - in two years I have gone from sinar/eyelikes best product to something to you that is worthless pile of junk in the eyes of sinar
Lets hope you at least contine support of it because I think it will do great images for the next decade
How does this compare with phase upgrade progam ??
S
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Sam,
I'm pretty sure that the upgrade from a Phase P25 to a Phase 45+ won't be a couple thousand
Pounds either.
Remember that there is also quite a price difference between the e-22 and the e-75.
When I sold my 1DsMkII I "lost" about 50% from it's new price,however in the 2 years I had it
it paid for itself over and over.
Now I'm waiting for the Hy6 to come out and go from there.
Cheers,
Willem.
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Sam,
I'm pretty sure that the upgrade from a Phase P25 to a Phase 45+ won't be a couple thousand
Pounds either.
Remember that there is also quite a price difference between the e-22 and the e-75.
When I sold my 1DsMkII I "lost" about 50% from it's new price,however in the 2 years I had it
it paid for itself over and over.
Now I'm waiting for the Hy6 to come out and go from there.
Cheers,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127973\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No I would (important edit!) NOT (end of important edit) expect the upgrade to be a couple of thousand pounds
but I also would expect the trade in value of the back to be a couple of thousand pounds either
There is no list price I have seen for a 75EV but a list for a H3d39 is £17k
So that could be £15K without the body
Say the 75EV is therefore worth £15k
An upgrade quote of £14K what I got
This means sinar notionally value the E22 at £1k yes - one thousand pounds
22mp backs are around £7k used on the open market and there fore should have a loyalty trade in value of £9k
Indeed say a 22mp back is about £10k new the sinar trade (to the 54LV) of £3k values the back correctly but tightly at £7k
Trouble is the 54LV is still limited to 200ISO at the max
so by being with sinar you are blocked from 400ISO as part of the upgrade path
S
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Dear Sam,
I don't understand your remark!
The eMotion 22 and the eMotion 75 LV are 2 completely different backs: there can't be an upgrade. May be one has to define what is an upgrade. An upgrade is a back which is brought to the latest or newest hardware/firmware level. The casing/sensor/serial number remain the same, and the customer gets his same DB back "upgraded".
This is what we are doing with the eMotion 75 being "upgraded" to eMotion 75 LV.
The eMotion 22 CANNOT be upgraded: the customer gets a completely NEW back, with new sensor, new electronics, new casing, new serial number, etc.... HOWEVER, and in the contrary to what you affirm below, Sinar has decided to keep the price at the same level as an upgrade price: in other words, you get a completely new back for the price of an upgrade.
Now, if you speak about going from the eMotion 22 to the eMotion 75LV, then it is again not an upgrade, but the exchange from one older model back to a completely different and newest back. This can definitively not be done with an "upgrade" price as described above: this is what is called a trade-in. However, we (and the distributor) do take back your eMotion 22 at a certain "trade-in" price.
I don't know what is wrong with this and since you are apparently having a Precision e22, you have most probably purchased it about 2 to 2 1/2 years ago (correct me if I am wrong).
Finally: we do support and have n intention to stop supporting and servicing Precision e22 backs or eMotion 22 backs.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
Well I hope readers here note your post - in two years I have gone from sinar/eyelikes best product to something to you that is worthless pile of junk in the eyes of sinar
Lets hope you at least contine support of it because I think it will do great images for the next decade
How does this compare with phase upgrade progam ??
S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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as said Sam,
try 200 ISO with ur eMotion 22 and compare with ISO 200 on other backs: you shall be surprised!
Thierry
Trouble is the 54LV is still limited to 200ISO at the max
so by being with sinar you are blocked from 400ISO as part of the upgrade path
S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I have an E22 not a precision.
I agree that 200 of Sinar is proably worth 400 of phase
I also agree that swapping the E22 for a 75LV is not really an upgrade
I am also aware that selling my back and going for a P30+ (more ISO more res less chip) or a refurb P45 (more res same chip and speed)
Keeping my back and gettting a 1DS2 (lots more ISO al little less res decent AF)
is THOUSANDS of pounds cheaper than the upgrade offer of £14000 ukp as a trade in
maybe the phrase should not be 'upgrade path' but 'customer loyalty scheme'
this is where you appear to be falling over
S
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Sam,
you've just solved your problem,however instead of the 1DsMII ,you should get a 5D.
You won't be disapponted and very cheap.
You can get one for $2300 USD LNIB.
Happy shooting!
Cheers,
Willem.
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I have an E22 not a precision.
I agree that 200 of Sinar is proably worth 400 of phase
I also agree that swapping the E22 for a 75LV is not really an upgrade
I am also aware that selling my back and going for a P30+ (more ISO more res less chip) or a refurb P45 (more res same chip and speed)
Keeping my back and gettting a 1DS2 (lots more ISO al little less res decent AF)
is THOUSANDS of pounds cheaper than the upgrade offer of £14000 ukp as a trade in
maybe the phrase should not be 'upgrade path' but 'customer loyalty scheme'
this is where you appear to be falling over
S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=127978\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
To round of this rant in a fair manner to Sinar .
A few PMs flying around and the prices have gone very bendy from list - I almost cant refuse a 54 LV upgrade
but the 75 is still a no-no for a pauper
If you own a E22 you need to get on the horn to someone! (that is telephone to non UK readers)
S
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Thierry,
I've used an eMotion 75LV the past couple of days for hair products advertising with models,
and experienced MANY more pauses for black reference. (The latest CaptureShop LV beta was used with a brand new Mac Pro Quad 3GHz.) Would you know the reason why?
Regards,
Billy
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Dear Billy,
The eMotion backs (any model) make a BR at starting, when taking the first image. Then you have either the possibility to manually "force" the back to do one BR, at any time, or then set it to "automatic" mode. In this case the back will do a BR every 15 minutes, OR THEN when the "exposure time" is changed by more than +/-10%.
Best regards,
Thierry
Thierry,
I've used an eMotion 75LV the past couple of days for hair products advertising with models,
and experienced MANY more pauses for black reference. (The latest CaptureShop LV beta was used with a brand new Mac Pro Quad 3GHz.) Would you know the reason why?
Regards,
Billy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128076\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]