Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: dkeyes on May 21, 2007, 01:45:08 am
-
Bought a 44" wide roll of HP Pro Satin when it first came out about a month ago and was printing nicely until I noticed some odd "streaks" running through the middle of my images. Mostly noticeable in dark/black areas. Tried all sorts of things to fix it then realized it was a defect in the coating on the paper. If anyone is having issues with this paper, you might look closely at the unprinted surface on the roll.
- Doug
-
correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't HP Pro Satin only come in 24 inch? Is it the HP ID satin? Anyway, doesn't help you but thatnks for the heads up!
Evo
-
Had the exact same issue with the 44" Pro Satin reported on this forum here:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=16765 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16765)
Just got the new replacement roll on Friday and have not yet had a chance to check it out. My first roll was virtually the first available at HP about a three or four weeks ago.
I'll check it out in the next day or so and report here.
You have to call the place you bought it and ask for a replacement roll. I hope they are not all defective! I haven't had any issues with the 24" paper.
Jim
-
Had the exact same issue with the 44" Pro Satin reported on this forum here:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=16765 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16765)
Just got the new replacement roll on Friday and have not yet had a chance to check it out. My first roll was virtually the first available at HP about a three or four weeks ago.
I'll check it out in the next day or so and report here.
You have to call the place you bought it and ask for a replacement roll. I hope they are not all defective! I haven't had any issues with the 24" paper.
Jim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118791\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mine was one of the first 44" rolls as well. I have seen an occasional tiny hole but it isn't consistently there. It looks like a paper defect as well. Haven't had any problems with the 24" rolls either.
Will be getting replacement roll this week, I'll report an update as well.
Doug
-
Mine was one of the first 44" rolls as well. I have seen an occasional tiny hole but it isn't consistently there. It looks like a paper defect as well. Haven't had any problems with the 24" rolls either.
Will be getting replacement roll this week, I'll report an update as well.
Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118793\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well I'll have to ask my supplier...so they are available in 44 inch now?
Evo
-
Well I'll have to ask my supplier...so they are available in 44 inch now?
Evo
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118802\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
yes for quite some time now.
-
I just had a chance to open the replacement roll of 44" Pro Satin and it has the same streaking problems on the coating. I'm talking with Kyle (Sales in the HP Small and Medium Business Center) about trying to see if they can do something about this. He has taken the link to this forum subject and is following up as we speak.
Jim
-
I got a second 44" roll as well. It has the same coating problems. If anyone finds a batch that is good, let me know where you got it. This is my main paper and I need 44" wide rolls.
Thanks, Doug
-
If anyone finds a batch that is good, let me know where you got it. This is my main paper and I need 44" wide rolls.
Thanks, Doug
Same here, although I think that all the Pro Satin in the US came from the same initial run. I still haven't heard back from Kyle at HP. I just left a message on his voice mail. Looks like HP is still trying to figure this one out. Those of us who really need this 44" Pro Satin right now are in trouble and may be waiting for another run of paper from Germany (I think this is where it comes from) after they figure out the production issue.
Jim
-
Well, bought another roll of 44" pro satin, this time directly from HP. Same problem, in same location on the roll. Anyone find a good roll yet? This is my third bad roll in a row, have yet to get a good roll.
By the way, my lot number on the paper is 02905552
- Doug
-
I'm still waiting for some word from HP on the defective 44" rolls of Pro Satin. My Small & Medium Business rep, Kyle, said yesterday that the person responsible for this issue had been out of the office, and that he expected to have an answer and would give me a call by yesterday afternoon. That didn't happen.
Obviously, HP doesn't yet have an answer to this issue. I suspect that we all need to find a suitable replacement for this paper until HP comes around.
I have ordered a pack of 11x17 Hawk Mountain Sharpwing Luster that is supposed to have a similar N surface to the Pro Satin. If it tests out OK, I may to order a 44" roll of that.
Has anyone here compared those two papers on the Z3100?
Jim
-
Had HP person from media group contact me through this forum about this paper issue. Mailed him the last defective 44" Pro satin roll. He is looking into the issue and locating a good batch to send me. I'll keep you posted.
Great that HP is watching this discussion and happy with the response so far.
-
Same here. Returned the two bad rolls. We'll see if he can find some good ones.
Jim
-
Had HP person from media group contact me through this forum about this paper issue. Mailed him the last defective 44" Pro satin roll. He is looking into the issue and locating a good batch to send me. I'll keep you posted.
Great that HP is watching this discussion and happy with the response so far.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121712\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the update, Doug. I've held off ordering a roll of the Pro Satin based on your experiences.
I did get a roll of the instant-dry satin and that's been performing well but I'd really like the heavier pro satin.
-
I personally am appalled by the notion of bad rolls of paper. I have had a few "yellow spots" that could be scraped off with a fingernail on my 24" rolls of HP Prof Satin. While not costing me any customer reprints due to being found on profiling and proofing runs, this still do not make me thrilled about paying the premium for first party media.
Perhaps we could all lean on Red River to release their UltraPro satin in 36" and 44" rolls. (Currently offered in 24" rolls only.) It's a very close match to HP Pro Satin in weight, gamut and lustre but at less than half the price.
-
Sean,
I'll have to check out Red River's UltraPro Satin and send an email about them offering larger rolls.
I got in Hawk Mountain's Sharpwing Luster paper and it is an E-surface (Luster), not an N-surface (Semi-matte/Satin) like I thought. Yes, I know the name says luster, but what I had read on a couple of forums led me to believe it was similar to the HP Pro Satin. It's not.
It looks like Red River may be the only alternative.
Jim
-
Perhaps we could all lean on Red River to release their UltraPro satin in 36" and 44" rolls. (Currently offered in 24" rolls only.) It's a very close match to HP Pro Satin in weight, gamut and lustre but at less than half the price.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hmmmmm.....
Q8759A HP Pro Satin Photo Paper - 24" x 50' = $99
Red River Ultra Pro Satin - 24" x 100' = $89.40
-
Perhaps we could all lean on Red River to release their UltraPro satin in 36" and 44" rolls. (Currently offered in 24" rolls only.) It's a very close match to HP Pro Satin in weight, gamut and lustre but at less than half the price.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sean,
Have you made prints on the Red River UltraPro satin? If so, can you describe the similarities/differences between HP Pro satin and Red River paper. I'm interested.
Thanks, Doug
ps. I was very surprised to see the bad 44" rolls since they have had the 24" rolls out long enough to iron out any defects.
-
Sean,
Have you made prints on the Red River UltraPro satin? If so, can you describe the similarities/differences between HP Pro satin and Red River paper. I'm interested.
Thanks, Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121859\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Doug,
Yes, I've used it. Wouldn't have mentioned it if I hadn't. I am replacing Pro Satin in my workflow with it. Very similar gamut, surface, weight, reflectance. I'm sure you could tell them apart when comparing samples at the same time, but if you were just given one, you'd have a hard time guessing.
Caveat: My initial run was with the "1.0" version. I have rolls of the new "2.0" version on its way which supposedly has a better coating and better white balance. I will report further on it once I've received it.
-
Bad printer imho
http://buy-flowers.bravehost.com (http://buy-flowers.bravehost.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121892\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
We are talking about defective rolls of paper. What does the printer have to do with that?
-
Doing testing on the new Red River UltraPro Satin "2.0."
Colour looks good, very comparable to HP Pro Satin.
Very rich, deep, wide gamut, etc. No complaints here.
The texture of this new version is not as subtle as the HP paper, so the specular highlights have a coarser nature than the Pro Satin. It's easier to tell them apart than the old 1.0.
Since it's roll media and I haven't done mounting yet, I can't say as to how a flat image will look in typical room lighting. I'll update after final profile development and some test mounting.
-
That's too bad to hear about surface problems on shipping product.
I didn't have nay marks on 24 or 36" rolls, or I didn't have in image areas that you may have seen them.
Could you send a jpg or describe where so I can look on my samples?
-
Neil,
I haven't had any problems with the 24" rolls just the newer 44" rolls. It's hard to describe the defect but the closest thing is a slightly wavy roller mark. It's like the coating was put on with a different thickness than the rest of the sheet. It's always located right in the middle of the 44" roll and runs in the direction of the roll (length wise). There are two wider marks/lines about 6-8" apart plus many smaller various sized marks/lines. When on lightly inked or light colored areas, the defect shows up as a slight gloss differential, looks like it's smoother there. On darker areas the effect is more pronounced.
Haven't heard back from my HP media group contact, so must be a major problem.
- Doug
-
Just got my two replacement rolls of 44" HP Pro Satin paper from HP Media Services and they appear fine after visually inspecting and running a few prints. All signs of streaking are gone.
HP must have just gotten a bad first run.
Jim
-
Recieved my replacement roll as well. All seems fine but I asked the HP media person where I could get reliable paper from now on and he said he didn't know yet. I'll have to ration this roll until I get confirmation on where to order good stock.
- Doug
-
Finally ordered new rolls of the Pro Satin 44" and found the same flaws as previous rolls. In fact, the only good roll I've had came from HP media directly (they contacted me and replaced my roll).
Anyone found a reliable source for this? So far I've had bad rolls purchased from my HP printer vendor (JVH technical), HP directly, and A Matter of Fax.
- Doug
-
I personally am appalled by the notion of bad rolls of paper. I have had a few "yellow spots" that could be scraped off with a fingernail on my 24" rolls of HP Prof Satin. While not costing me any customer reprints due to being found on profiling and proofing runs, this still do not make me thrilled about paying the premium for first party media.
Perhaps we could all lean on Red River to release their UltraPro satin in 36" and 44" rolls. (Currently offered in 24" rolls only.) It's a very close match to HP Pro Satin in weight, gamut and lustre but at less than half the price.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=121776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My Z3100 is a 24" model, so I'm a happy camper with the RR UltraPro satin paper. I'm not prepared to say if it's better, worse, or the same as HP Prof Satin, but it's darn close. I AM prepared to say that, for me at least, HP's paper is not worth twice as much.
I too have had some QC problems with HP papers, occasionally finding odd marks and stains and in one case I discovered a 10" piece of masking tape in the middle of a roll.
Nothing but good results with RR papers so far.
-
Finally ordered new rolls of the Pro Satin 44" and found the same flaws as previous rolls. In fact, the only good roll I've had came from HP media directly (they contacted me and replaced my roll).
Anyone found a reliable source for this? So far I've had bad rolls purchased from my HP printer vendor (JVH technical), HP directly, and A Matter of Fax.
- Doug
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=150631\")
[a href=\"http://www.atlex.com/hp_designjet/printer_paper_rolls.htm]Atlex[/url] has just started carrying a larger selection of HP papers. I've had great service from them over the years.
-
Well, after 6 rolls in 6 months, I have yet to purchase a usable roll of 44" HP Pro satin. Thanks to my contact at HP media, I've recieved three rolls to date that are good. He informed me they know there is a manufacturing problem and that it is being addressed. Not sure why HP continues to sell defective paper, they should recall it until they get it worked out. It looks like for now, there isn't any reliable source for this media in 44". I know the bad and good lot numbers but no one is able to track that information to find a reliable source. Not sure where HP media is getting the good rolls, probably directly from the manufacturer as they work on this problem. This is a shame since I am printing all my work on this and really need a steady supply. The pro satin is still the best performing paper in the z3100.
-
dkeyes-
Does the photo below show the problem you have experienced with HP Professional Satin? The lines are imperceptible to me before the paper runs through the machine, but look like indentations with a slight sheen differential from the surrounding paper surface. Now that I've seen both, I now know that these are not starwheel marks.
I've run 600 square feet of the stuff through my 3100 and never once had a tech support person acknowledge that there were know manufacturing defects with this paper. Because of the intermittent nature of the problem, it has been really difficult to pinpoint the exact problem for me. I had HP replace my starwheels and the paper outfeed platen, to no avail. I thought that a tech support suggestion to pull additional media off of the roll in back to lessen the tension on the drive wheels was solving the problem, but now think that it was an unfortunate coincidence that my problem went away because of a good batch of paper, not a change in the printing process.
If this is indeed a known problem to HP, we can only surmise that they are continuing to sell the paper because not enough people are complaining to make it worth it to them to pull it off the shelf. I find it extremely disappointing that HP would stonewall me about this, but also take a little solace in the thought that it is fixable with better quality control over the paper manufacturing.
-Ron H.
(The shot is taken with on camera flash pointing straight into the print to try to show the texture. This isn't an easy thing to photograph.)
[attachment=3792:attachment]
-
Ron-
Your image shows exactly what I've been getting due to the paper defects. If you pull out the roll and hang it over the top of the printer, in just the right angle of light you can see the paper defects. That is how I determined it wasn't my printer causing this. It drove me crazy for a week until I noticed it on an unprinted area, that's when I checked the roll and found the defects. Unless customers aren't that picky (which I doubt) people must be noticing this defect. I'm sure many think it is the printer causing it. I have even noticed it once on a 24" roll right on the edge. I thought the printer was at fault but again, found the paper defect.
Glad to know I'm not the only one who has noticed. You should send back your paper.
I'm curious to know what your lot number is, the bad rolls I had were 02905570, 02905566.
- Doug
-
I'm curious to know what your lot number is, the bad rolls I had were 02905570, 02905566.
- Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151857\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'll let you know on Monday, Doug. Were you just dealing with people through the main HP sales number, or is there a different department to contact?
-Ron H.
-
I'll let you know on Monday, Doug. Were you just dealing with people through the main HP sales number, or is there a different department to contact?
-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151862\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I returned most of my paper through the place I purchased it from here in the Seattle area. The online stores want you to deal directly with HP, and I have yet to reach somone at HP to get that figured out. I was contacted directly through this post by somone at HP media and he sent me some replacement rolls. So far, these are the only good rolls I have used. Have you actually purchased any good 44" rolls?
- Doug
-
Have you actually purchased any good 44" rolls?
- Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151988\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm currently working on a roll that started out fine, but now shows problems. Before the current roll, I've had one roll with it throughout and the rest of the rolls have had intermittent marks. By intermittent, I mean mostly marked, but with a few sections that show no imperfections.
-Ron H.
-
I'm curious to know what your lot number is, the bad rolls I had were 02905570, 02905566.
- Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151857\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Doug-
I took a look at the lot number for the one remaining box of Pro Satin that I have, the one that was good at the beginning of the roll. The lot number for that roll is 02905570, the same as the first lot number you referenced above. Still looking for the lot number that shows good paper from end to end.
Good paper/bad quality control (although they haven't managed to roll the paper on the core backwards, like one manufacturer did recently!)
-Ron H.
-
The good rolls I've recieved are lot number: 06109211
No way to specify numbers when ordering though since no one will look for that info. Seems like a simple fix, remove all the bad material and keep all the good material. Or just don't sell any until they get good stock. I guess HP doesn't care until they get enough returns/complaints. That said, no company has ever contacted me to fix a problem like HP has through this forum.
- Doug
-
That said, no company has ever contacted me to fix a problem like HP has through this forum.
- Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Doug-
You've run multiple rolls from that lot number with no issues? Do their lot numbers vary that much, typically, or do the good and bad lot numbers seem rather far apart to you?
Regarding your comment, although nobody has contacted me, I'm pleased to see that HP monitors this site from time to time. I have yet to see any signs that they ever glance at their own forums. I think they missed a perfect opportunity with their forums to interact with their customers and share information that could have brought value to both company and customer. They could share fixes for common issues with users much more readily and lighten the load on their phone support at the same time. As it is now, it is pretty much a ghost town.
-Ron H.
-
The two replacement rolls of 44" Pro Satin that I received from HP Media were also lot #06109211.
Jim
The good rolls I've recieved are lot number: 06109211
- Doug
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152329\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
You've run multiple rolls from that lot number with no issues? Do their lot numbers vary that much, typically, or do the good and bad lot numbers seem rather far apart to you?
-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152335\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So far, the lot numbers have only been the three I have mentioned, with the 06109211 being the only good rolls (no bad rolls).
I also agree that HP could have used their website better. I started posting there early on and got no replies from either users or HP. In contrast, LL has been very helpful.
- Doug
-
I'm posting this in hopes that someone from HP is reading this as they have in the past.
Sorry to revive this old thread but I and at least one other person on this forum have had issues again. (only the 44" rolls) Amazing it's been over two years since I first noticed the problem (may 2007) and yet there is still bad inventory out there with no recall of that inventory. I think I've had 8 bad rolls in two years, not good odds since that accounts for almost half of my 44" roll purchases. Not to mention I've purchased these rolls from at least 5 different vendors across the US. It's been almost a year since the last bad roll so I thought this issue was solved, I guess not. The worst part is that HP hasn't communicated to and dealt with this problem at the vendor level and within their own customer service.
HP, please solve this issue. The paper is great (when it's not flawed) and my workflow (and clients) is dialed in with the paper. I don't want to change but may be forced to soon.
-
The printer is a very good printer, very versatile, and it can do great things. It is the knowledge base that is bad. Problem is they have had bad batches of the 44" Pro Satin circulating now all over the world since 2007. Either that OR they are making bad stuff again. How are we supposed to know which?
It is HPs responsibility (not ours!) to have these rolls pulled, IF, (big if) they are old rolls. Don't know. Be very careful if your in the middle of an important job. If they aren't still being produced with that flawed coating, it is their responsibility to come clean and tell us why they are still allowing this defective stuff to be sold and, exactly what they are going to do about it. It was a nuisance two years ago, now it has moved into the realm of absurdity when even the phone support people are not up to date ( if they really don't know).
Doug and I are both having the same exact situation in different parts of the US. But it is probably still a global issue. If it wasn't their primary photo media I wouldn't care, but it is.
john