Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: BJNY on April 24, 2007, 12:58:11 pm
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I was a Rollei 6006 owner, and have always appreciated F+H's engineering (e.g. M39 adapter, electronic shutters for view camera use, etc.)
For the Hy6 / AFi platform to succeed :
- It's gotta work out of the box without glitches. Don't let the paying customer be the beta tester.
- Camera body and lens firmware must be downloadable and user-upgradeable via the compact flash slot, just as with Canon cameras.
- The warranty on every piece of the system should be two, if not three years. Repair facilities should be set up and ready to do any repair FAST. Also, leaf shutter repairs shouldn't cost a horrifying $1,000 to $1,500.
- I can't afford to purchase two of everything, so make the system WIDELY available for rent.
- Pricing needs to be AT LEAST competitive. Don't let the Tele-Xenar AF 150mm F4 cost more than an HC 150mm F3.2. In fact, give us some GREAT incentives to RISK buying into the platform.
- Market the Hy6 / AFi properly. Make me feel the SUPPORT behind it, so I'll have confidence in its survival.
- Billy
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- Market the Hy6 / AFi properly.
Sinar + Leaf,
Don't interpret this suggestion by giving a camera system to one of those photographers that seem to endorse everything .
Harshness removed by Billy
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This gives me more confidence of the platform being open with Alpa offering a Hy6/AFi adapter plate: http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products...257&tablepage=2 (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products/backs_adapters/digital_backs_and_adapters&detailpage=257&tablepage=2)
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I'm not sure why. The fact that a camera maker [Alpa] is offering an adapter to fit a HY6/AFi mount back onto its own camera doesn't mean that any backs other than Leaf or Sinar will be able to fit on the Hy6 camera.
This gives me more confidence of the platform being open with Alpa offering a Hy6/AFi adapter plate: http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products...257&tablepage=2 (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products/backs_adapters/digital_backs_and_adapters&detailpage=257&tablepage=2)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114566\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Alpas can already take Rollei lenses with a special adapter which is rather useful every now and then. I'd never worry about an Alpa body getting harmed in the hold of a jet - there's not that much to damage.
With the hy6 adapter I guess it makes them even more flexible.
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This gives me more confidence of the platform being open with Alpa offering a Hy6/AFi adapter plate: http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products...257&tablepage=2 (http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=products/backs_adapters/digital_backs_and_adapters&detailpage=257&tablepage=2)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114566\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This, from an April Press Release by Sinar, is what would appear to give you confidence, but this is a company that cannot seem to shoot straight(i.e., speak clearly and directly to this issue and many others), so I would take it with a grain of salt: "The Hy6 has been designed as an open system and allows for the use of digital backs of various manufacturers."
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- Camera body and lens firmware must be downloadable and user-upgradeable via the compact flash slot, just as with Canon cameras.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114025\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Better yet, via USB connection to a computer, as with Olympus DSLRs.
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The Hy6 is already at the production phase. This is all a bit late.
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Exactly what is late?
My opening post has more to do with marketing, and positioning against the competition.
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Exactly what is late?
Asking for USB ports for firmware upgrade. As it happens, the Hy6 already has this
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Thierry,
Does the battery in the Hy6 handgrip provide power to the eMotion digital back as well?
Billy
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hi Billy,
no, the battery inside the Hy6 powers the camera only. The eMotion is fitted with its own internal battery.
Best,
Thierry
Thierry,
Does the battery in the Hy6 handgrip provide power to the eMotion digital back as well?
Billy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115799\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thank you Thierry.
Please keep us all updated with REAL dates when to expect the eVolution75 and eXposure sofware (dazzle us with some screenshots at least).
Also, I look forward to the pricing of the Hy6/F+H items you mentioned was forthcoming a couple of weeks ago.
Billy
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Regarding U.S. pricing Matt,
It really should go without saying that a Hy6/eMotion75/camera adapter plate/warranty bundle should not cost more than a similar H3d, JUST to be even considered. In fact, I think it would be a good promotion if additional lenses were discounted 50 percent to reward early adopters/RISKtakers, and to help saturate the marketplace with equipment.
Billy
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Hopefully, both batteries are the same type and/or uses the same charger.
hi Billy,
no, the battery inside the Hy6 powers the camera only. The eMotion is fitted with its own internal battery.
Best,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115876\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hopefully, both batteries are the same type and/or uses the same charger.
Same as the eMotion battery or the Leaf? There is no standard to adhere to.
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What I'm saying is that ideally the battery in the Hy6 handgrip is the same type as in the eMotion digital back. If not, hopefully they use the same charger. My point is that I don't need to be carrying more chargers.
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Another question Thierry,
Will the raw file format for eMotion and eVolution digital backs stay with .sti or will it be DNG one day soon?
I'm aware of Hess' software.
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I hope the new Sinar/Leaf/Rollei will be successful. Been in Russia I wait for a Rolleiflex version Hy6 in a month or two. I am 90% sure that I will buy it. Still no information on the price of the camera for the Russian market and an eMotion adapter plate availability. I got a copy of a Sinar/Foba catalogue for Russia and the price of a Sinar version of an Hy6 was indicated as Euro 5,600.00 ( with a 80 mm. lens?).
I have looked though a lot of PDFs, talked to the dealers, visited a Photo Furum expo in April and still I have a lot of unanswered questions:
- Integration of the camera with 6008 Lenscontrol units (I use one on my Alpa with my 6008 lenses).Do they plan to introduce a new USB lenscontrol for the new camera?
- Can we ran the Hy6 in the Slave mode in CaptureShop as we do with the Sinar M? I mean that we will be able to set focus, aperture and exposure in the software? How it works with old manual lenses?
-Do we need any additional cables (USB?) and devices (like LC shutter) to use live view or one firewire cable is enough?
- Does the camera support multishot backs?
- what is the difference between AF and AFD lenses?
Etc.
I would like to understand the functionality of the camera before placing my order. Now I feel confused.
Yevgeny
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Good questions Yevgeny.
I gave my idea for a new LensControl to Michael @ Jenoptik six months ago. I suggested it be a standalone version of the Hy6 handgrip with battery (thereby saving tooling costs).
Curious to know the cost of the adapter to use 6008 lenses on the Alpa?
Thanks.
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dear Billy,
I can re-aasure you, both batteries are the same.
Best,
Thierry
Hopefully, both batteries are the same type and/or uses the same charger.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116010\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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another answer Billy,
it is planed that the new Sinar Exposure will write DNG files, not longer .sti.
Exposure is to be released in a few weeks.
Thierry
Another question Thierry,
Will the raw file format for eMotion and eVolution digital backs stay with .sti or will it be DNG one day soon?
I'm aware of Hess' software.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116022\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Curious to know the cost of the adapter to use 6008 lenses on the Alpa?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Billy,
I payed Euro 1,080.00 for the new Rollei 6008 lens adapter.(ex works +custom duties).
Yevgeny
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Excellent, Thierry.
It's these "little things" that will make the ownership experience positive.
Edit: corrected spelling
dear Billy,
I can re-aasure you, both batteries are the same.
Best,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116142\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thank you Yevgeny.
Which 6008 lenses do you use on the Alpa (XY?). How do the 6008 lenses compare against Schneider Digitars or Rodenstock HR digital lenses?
Billy
Hi Billy,
I payed Euro 1,080.00 for the new Rollei 6008 lens adapter.(ex works +custom duties).
Yevgeny
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116144\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thank you Yevgeny.
Which 6008 lenses do you use on the Alpa (XY?). How do the 6008 lenses compare against Schneider Digitars or Rodenstock HR digital lenses?
Billy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116150\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Billy,
I have three ALPA bodies: a TC , an SWA and a SW Special edition. I am no pro and I do not feel that I need an XY. I own an old Rollei X-act for movements.
I use the adapter and the lenscontrol with the SWA for copying work. I cannot compare 6008 lenses with HR lenses; I do not own any of them. I have a helvetar, a 35mm and 60mm Digitars and my 24mm is a fixed infinity lens after the damage. On the SWA I use my 80mm AF and 180 mm AF. I tried it with a borrowed 90mm Macro lens. Very good lens indeed! I did not try any other 6008 lenses on my Alpas.
I use an eMotion 22 with pretty big pixel size and I do not think that the quality of a stopped down lens is much worse than my Digitars. And they allow some shift as well. A professional photographer I share a studio with clamed that she saw the difference (micro contrast). I am not a pixel expert myself and I am satisfied with the results I have. I used my e22 on the hasselblad 503 with Zeiss lenses couple of years before and I like the 6008 Schneider lenses more.
Regards,
Yevgeny
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Thank you again Yevgeny.
I'm sure many pros would be envious of your kit.
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Asking for USB ports for firmware upgrade. As it happens, the Hy6 already has this
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114626\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I was not asking for the USB port that is already there; I was suggesting the software/firmware needed to use that port to install firmware updates. If that is not already present, it can be added with a firmware change.
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I was not asking for the USB port that is already there; I was suggesting the software/firmware needed to use that port to install firmware updates.
That's the very reason for the port. "USB interface for firmware upgrades"
see http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/Hy6.php (http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/Hy6.php)
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That's the very reason for the port. "USB interface for firmware upgrades"
see http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/Hy6.php (http://www.sinarbron.com/sinar/digital/Hy6.php)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116219\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks: that makes redundant the original post's asking for a way to do it by fiddling around "via the compact flash slot, just as with Canon cameras". (Some people need to learn that Canon does not always necessarily offer the start-of-the art in every single aspect of camera technology!)
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Updating camera body firmware via USB cable is a nice surprise, and certainly welcomed over Canon's method using a compact flash card.
Anything that makes the ownership experience less of a hassle is a good thing.
Imagine the majority of H1 + H2 owners out there who don't use Hasselblad/Imacon digital backs, and who aren't in close proximity to a Hasselblad authorized repair station. How inconvenient and costly is it for them to update their camera body firmware?
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Dear Yevgeny,
sorry for my late reply. Here answers to your questions.
- The Sinar Hy6 can be run both in Master and Slave Mode (controlled by Captureshop)
- "old" lenses can be used as well
- the SB eMotion LV series are to be used exclusively without LC Shutter
- the SB eVolution and the SB 54 M 6 54 MC can be used without LC Shutter, and probably also with
- the Sinar Hy 6 supports obviously the new eVolution 75 H Mutlishot back, and any future new one
- AFD lenses are optimized for digital backs (I shall give more technical info as soon as available)
Best regards,
Thierry
I hope the new Sinar/Leaf/Rollei will be successful. Been in Russia I wait for a Rolleiflex version Hy6 in a month or two. I am 90% sure that I will buy it. Still no information on the price of the camera for the Russian market and an eMotion adapter plate availability. I got a copy of a Sinar/Foba catalogue for Russia and the price of a Sinar version of an Hy6 was indicated as Euro 5,600.00 ( with a 80 mm. lens?).
I have looked though a lot of PDFs, talked to the dealers, visited a Photo Furum expo in April and still I have a lot of unanswered questions:
- Integration of the camera with 6008 Lenscontrol units (I use one on my Alpa with my 6008 lenses).Do they plan to introduce a new USB lenscontrol for the new camera?
- Can we ran the Hy6 in the Slave mode in CaptureShop as we do with the Sinar M? I mean that we will be able to set focus, aperture and exposure in the software? How it works with old manual lenses?
-Do we need any additional cables (USB?) and devices (like LC shutter) to use live view or one firewire cable is enough?
- Does the camera support multishot backs?
- what is the difference between AF and AFD lenses?
Etc.
I would like to understand the functionality of the camera before placing my order. Now I feel confused.
Yevgeny
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116121\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry,
Any idea IF + when the LensControl S will be modernized?
It's oversized; uses the 6000 series battery; and very '70s-looking.
Billy
I gave my idea for a new LensControl to Michael @ Jenoptik six months ago. I suggested it be a standalone version of the Hy6 handgrip with battery (thereby saving tooling costs).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Billy,
No, sorry, no idea at all about this.
I shall ask if something is planed in this direction, but I guess that this is not a priority at the moment.
Thierry
Thierry,
Any idea IF + when the LensControl S will be modernized?
It's oversized; uses the 6000 series battery; and very '70s-looking.
Billy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116751\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Yevgeny,
sorry for my late reply. Here answers to your questions.
- The Sinar Hy6 can be run both in Master and Slave Mode (controlled by Captureshop)
- "old" lenses can be used as well
- the SB eMotion LV series are to be used exclusively without LC Shutter
- the SB eVolution and the SB 54 M 6 54 MC can be used without LC Shutter, and probably also with
- the Sinar Hy 6 supports obviously the new eVolution 75 H Mutlishot back, and any future new one
- AFD lenses are optimized for digital backs (I shall give more technical info as soon as available)
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116684\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Dear Thierry.
Thank you for your answers.
One more question: Does the Hy6 support 22 mpx. 54H backs?
Regards,
Yevgeny
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Dear Yevgeny,
There are no plans yet for an adaptation of the 2nd generation of Sinarbacks (SB 23, 43, 44 and 54). At the current moment only adapters for the SB eMotion 54 LV, eMotion 75 LV, eVolution 75 H and SB 54 M and SB 54 MC are available.
Best regards,
Thierry
Dear Thierry.
Thank you for your answers.
One more question: Does the Hy6 support 22 mpx. 54H backs?
Regards,
Yevgeny
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Coincidentally, Hasselblad is offering a similar promotion, so my suggestion is not so farfetched.
Thanks to Steve/PPR for posting this info/thread
I now have 2nd quarter promotion information for all of the MFDB's we carry:
Hasselblad
*HC Lens Promotion
When ordering any H3D system, end-users may order up to any two HC lenses for $1,995 each.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116900\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Regarding U.S. pricing Matt,
It really should go without saying that a Hy6/eMotion75/camera adapter plate/warranty bundle should not cost more than a similar H3d, JUST to be even considered. In fact, I think it would be a good promotion if additional lenses were discounted 50 percent to reward early adopters/RISKtakers, and to help saturate the marketplace with equipment.
Billy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115945\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Coincidentally, Hasselblad is offering a similar promotion, so my suggestion is not so farfetched.
Thanks to Steve/PPR for posting this info/thread
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116926\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'd go even further upstream with this suggestion: I'd find a way to package/promote the package to get market pentration, and then, after the second or third run of successful manufacturing groups (1500 or 5000 units ea), then start adjusting pricing.
If one looks to the long run, a small limited and exclusive fully priced group is one approach. But if Sinar really wants to get some exposure with this in the US, something more aggressive is needed. I have seen the Sinar M sitting on a shelf, lonely, unloved by the sales force, and dusty. Its painful.
Geoff
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Between SinarBron and LeafAmerica, I hope there's a real effort to properly promote/advertise the Hy6/AFi over the next couple of years just as Hasselblad did to launch their H1. I can't imagine what the cost is to consistently be in all the major photo magazines, saturating our consciousness, and gaining our confidence.
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Between SinarBron and LeafAmerica, I hope there's a real effort to properly promote/advertise the Hy6/AFi over the next couple of years just as Hasselblad did to launch their H1. I can't imagine what the cost is to consistently be in all the major photo magazines, saturating our consciousness, and gaining our confidence.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116994\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i wonder what the cost of promoting heavly to the cost of just supplying lots of reduced price gear to all the rental places? im sure having the cameras available for rental everywhere would sell the camera better than lots of magazine ads. the web will then fill with lots of reviews, at no cost to sinar.
paul
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... and I should add: there is a very interesting trade-in promotion of the SB 54 H for the new SB eVolution 75 H, which should be started by our distributors within the next days (released already by Sinar to its distributors), and valid until June 30th 2007.
Thierry
Dear Yevgeny,
There are no plans yet for an adaptation of the 2nd generation of Sinarbacks (SB 23, 43, 44 and 54). At the current moment only adapters for the SB eMotion 54 LV, eMotion 75 LV, eVolution 75 H and SB 54 M and SB 54 MC are available.
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=116924\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]