Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: William.Rennaker on February 27, 2007, 08:57:07 pm
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Hello all, my name is William Rennaker. I am a lifestyle photographer in Nassau, Bahamas. I currently own a Hasselblad 503 CW and I am just about to order a Phase One P45. I consodered Leaf and Sinar, but for various reasons and as a result of my demo of the3 backs in NYC a month ago I have all butt decided to purchased the P45+.
Can anyone give me their impressions of the P45 and 503 CW. I am not an autofocus kind of guy. I have always used MF manual focus cameras. I hate the H series and don't really want to change to the Contax 645 which is no longer manufacturerd. It scares the daylights out of me to commit to a dead system.
So what say you?
Willie
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I have been using the P20 with a 503CW for the last 18 months without a hitch, and have just ordered the P30+, albeit in Contax fitting, however would not have had a problem using it with the 503CW. I also hate the 'H' system and personally never use autofocus, and the 503CW suits my style, just that i prefer the Contax for handholding.
I would say go for it, i am sure the lenses are up to it, and the system is always going to be serviceable.
Gary.
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Gary,
How seamless is this set-up? Does it require extra cables and do-dads to work? I'd love to go back to shooting with a 503 but it seemed like a hack to get it to work.
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From what I was told by the Phase One dealer, all that is needed is a single cable from the lens to the back. Don't see why I would be misled? I would like to hear from other V users as well.
Tomorrow I am goiing to order the back and need to pick a mount.
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I've been using a P25 with a 501CM for about a month now. I love my 501CM, but I just bought a Contax kit and I'm changing my order on my P25+ upgrade to have a Contax mount. As far as cables are concerned, with the 501CM there is one cable needed going from the lens to the back. Then, if you want to use a PocketWizzard there is another cord going from the PW to the back... and then if you're tethered there is yet another cable going from the back to your laptop.
The quality of the files with the Hasselblad lenses is great... although I can't say that I compared them with any other lenses.
I basically decided since I was using a 645 aspect ratio sensor I wanted to use a 645 camera as well. Rotating the back from horizontal to vertical is a PITA. Having said that, I much prefer the square format and using a 45 degree prism... but I'm pretty sure they aren't going to make a full frame 6x6 sensor any time soon (or ever).
Jeff
From what I was told by the Phase One dealer, all that is needed is a single cable from the lens to the back. Don't see why I would be misled? I would like to hear from other V users as well.
Tomorrow I am goiing to order the back and need to pick a mount.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103640\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi,
sorry for not being able to add some long term experience regarding exactly this combo. But I have rented the H1+2/P25/30/45/Leaf Aptus backs, played with a Mamiya 645AF/Leaf and used my RZ with all the mentioned Phase backs. Recently a friend of mine came over with his 503CW/P45 combo and I was pretty much sold. Double checked that impression now at a dealership here in NY by comparing the 503 with H and the Mamiya 645 and I decided to get the 503 with 40mm and 60mm, the 45prism and grip. A couple of other photographers I know went the same route and do not seem to regret it. I am shooting mostly people and will probably go for the P30. But as for the camera system I am almost shocked that I go for an 'older' Hasselblad now. I don't hate the H or the Mamiya but all things considered (lens quality, present and future availability in combo with Phase, size,sync times, ...) this seems to work best for me. The only downside could be dealing with a cable but it felt to me that it in no way compares to the two cables and adapter with my current RZ.
cheers
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I agree with Jeff Singer, but, if you don't mind the crop factor, the fiddly cables, limitations when using pocketwizards, go for it! What prism do you use? If it's a 90, make sure it fits with the phase back attached.
-Nik
Hello all, my name is William Rennaker. I am a lifestyle photographer in Nassau, Bahamas. I currently own a Hasselblad 503 CW and I am just about to order a Phase One P45. I consodered Leaf and Sinar, but for various reasons and as a result of my demo of the3 backs in NYC a month ago I have all butt decided to purchased the P45+.
Can anyone give me their impressions of the P45 and 503 CW. I am not an autofocus kind of guy. I have always used MF manual focus cameras. I hate the H series and don't really want to change to the Contax 645 which is no longer manufacturerd. It scares the daylights out of me to commit to a dead system.
So what say you?
Willie
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103630\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I currently own a Hasselblad 503 CW and I am just about to order a Phase One P45. I consodered Leaf and Sinar, but for various reasons and as a result of my demo of the3 backs in NYC a month ago I have all butt decided to purchased the P45+.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103630\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am at the same position so far. Honestly, I feel like I’ve been pushed towards P45+ by the pure reasons, which are: potentially less problems in literally every way, starting form the Software point of view and work-flow to Quality which is debatable as I'm sure it should be. Further more, I know, not extremely important but still important enough to consider, the Resale value & the Resale demand!
One other thing to consider is renting. Availability of renting Phase is pretty much standard everywhere. Others include Hasselblad/Leaf/Sinar, but you will find them more or less decreased in orderly fashion by the numbers per unit.
One thing with P45 that bothers me though is additional cable for wake-up call when used with ALPA and other associated cameras. However, I guess that shouldn't concern you much.
That is based on my personal opinion, others are welcome to respond and help you further.
Hello all, my name is William Rennaker. I am a lifestyle photographer in Nassau, Bahamas.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103630\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Since you are a lifestyle photographer I should think that P45+ would be overkill, especially with MF. I believe P30+ is adequate and High ISO will help, not to mention that you save your self a considerable amount of money. Otherwise, if the money is not the object and you found P45+ ideal, then P45+ it is.
Can anyone give me their impressions of the P45 and 503 CW. I am not an autofocus kind of guy. I have always used MF manual focus cameras.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103630\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nothing wrong with that, but I’ll bet you, P45+ will more likely remind you about AF convenience.
I hate the H series and don't really want to change to the Contax 645 which is no longer manufacturerd. It scares the daylights out of me to commit to a dead system.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103630\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I see you hate H series, Mamiya could definitely Help. However, with regards to H series, I will disagree because of the following: why not take the advantage of what you already have and whatever future holds, I would most probably or at least rethink about the H series, because you can still use your lenses from the 503 CW system anyway. Being in that position, weather you like or need MF/AF is simply available at your choice, or in future. Because of that alone, I think it is rather practical to give it a second chance. Otherwise, if 503 CW makes the most sense down the road, then 503 CW it is.
Unfortunately, pure shame that Contax 645 is no longer manufactured and BTW I feel the same way about it.
Rollei probably comes with the best set of lenses available, but if you go with P45+, I’m not sure if it will work.
So what say you?
Willie
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103630\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Digital Back purchase is not something I found enjoyable at all.
Regards
Danijela
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One thing with P45 that bothers me though is additional cable for wake-up call when used with ALPA and other associated cameras. However, I guess that shouldn't concern you much.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103677\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
One thing i dont understand here... why does the P45 need a wake up call when used with flash sync on an Alpha, but not when used with the flash sync on a 503?
-axel
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Another V user opinion for you.
I have the 503cw with a Leaf Aptus 22 back, and am so far more than happy with it.
While I was waiting for my A22 to arrive I had the opportunity to use an Aptus 75 for a week shooting product on table-top (which will be my main use for it) and was really impressed with the quality of the files and the fact that the "old" Zeiss lenses stood up so well to the higher resolution... even when using the bellows with a 120 macro attached zooming into a strawberry the detail was amazing.
So I think if you are comfortable with using the 503, you will find it and the lenses are up to the task of a high res back like the A75 or Phase 45.
Best of luck.
Andrew
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One thing i dont understand here... why does the P45 need a wake up call when used with flash sync on an Alpha, but not when used with the flash sync on a 503?
-axel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103692\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Axel,
I was thinking about the same question. Unfortunately, I don't know anybody representing Phase here, to ask for the official answer. If 503 CW model needs a wake-up call too, I wouldn't go with Phase if I was firm using 503 CW only.
Regards
Danijela
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I use the 503 with an Aptus back. I know the Aptus does not need the wake-up call but am not sure with the Phase. My advice would be to carefully check on that yourself. My initial reaction is that when the Phase needs a wake up call on view cameras (or other) it probably needs it as well on the 503 but I might be wrong (never put a Phase on my 503).
Sofar I am really happy using the 503 for anything that has people in it. My first reaction would be as well that the P45 is a bit overkill unless you want to have less cropfactor the P30 (or A65) seem like a better alternative for people.
The P30 is cheaper and goes higher in ISO, which were 2 deciding factors for a friend and fellow photographer to go for the P30. He uses it on Contax. Yes, the system is dead but there is still so much for sale, also new. You will probably not run into any problems the coming years.
Autofocus is a true benefit while using digital backs not to be underestimated IMO. I have been using MF cameras (553, 503, Digiflex, Mamiya, Miniwide, Truewide) for the last 5 years with DB's but this year I will get myself an AF system as well. Digital is much less forgiving with focus than film ever was is my experience.
Since I hate the H system as well my options are fairly limited. Hy6 which doesn't exist yet (however I have used the 6008AF a couple of times and I really liked that) or Contax. Mamiya, I find the 645 glass totally inadequate.
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One thing i dont understand here... why does the P45 need a wake up call when used with flash sync on an Alpha, but not when used with the flash sync on a 503?
-axel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103692\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Phase backs using a small pin on the rear of the Hasselblad V cameras for wake up. This pin is not available on other cameras.
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Gary,
How seamless is this set-up? Does it require extra cables and do-dads to work? I'd love to go back to shooting with a 503 but it seemed like a hack to get it to work.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Bob,
As others have replied, it is completely seemless once you have a small cable attached from lens to back. At first i really thought it was going to be an issue, however after using it for a day or two i completely accepted it and it bothers me not one jot. In all the time of use i have never had any kind of failure with the cable connection or for that matter the back itself. The 'P' backs with their simplistic approach in only having 4 buttons integrate well with the 'V' Blad which in itself is both simple and logical. If menus, buttons, dials, etc are not your thing and all you want to do is set a shutter speed and aperture on a lens then it could well be a marraige made in ??
Gary.
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Bob,
As others have replied, it is completely seemless once you have a small cable attached from lens to back. At first i really thought it was going to be an issue, however after using it for a day or two i completely accepted it and it bothers me not one jot. In all the time of use i have never had any kind of failure with the cable connection or for that matter the back itself. The 'P' backs with their simplistic approach in only having 4 buttons integrate well with the 'V' Blad which in itself is both simple and logical. If menus, buttons, dials, etc are not your thing and all you want to do is set a shutter speed and aperture on a lens then it could well be a marraige made in ??
Gary.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103711\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The border of Sweden and Denmark perhaps?
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The border of Sweden and Denmark perhaps?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103721\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Exactly!
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The border of Sweden and Denmark perhaps?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=103721\")
And there we have to choose between the ferries or the bridge
[a href=\"http://www.bridgephoto.dk/search/details.php?id=1804]http://www.bridgephoto.dk/search/details.php?id=1804[/url]
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Hi William:
I use a P45 with a 501CM. I love it! It works quite well for the landscape work I do.
I use a Metz sync cable (5548) instead of the Phase One cable, because it is shorter and less bulky. I don't even notice it when working. It works with well with CF and CFi lenses.
I have gotten a few misfires where the back/flash sync/cable didn't sync correctly for a shot, but it mostly has been at 32 degrees F or lower, with the Metz cable.
I have not used flash, but according to the manual (which you can download from PhaseOne.com), the flash/strobe/PW sync cable attaches to the back not to the camera.
If you use your 503CW with TTL-flash, I'm not sure if there are any problems. You may want to contact Phase One via e-mail. In addition, manual states that the reflectivity of the CCD is different and provides a factor but that was in the Contax section.
I can get 2-4GB cards (~196 shots) worth of shots out of one battery and that is at 28-40 degrees F! I'm sure the life is better at 70 degrees F and above
It's a great tool! It feels like you're shooting your favorite Hasselbald-- I love the size, feel, waistlevel finder, etc. The instant feedback, highlight check, histogram is great!
Good luck on your decision. Its a lot of fun and works very well!
Rich
NGOphotographer
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Excellent information contained withing the responses. One item that I think Willam should consider is vertical framing. I can see how this might be a bit annoying with the waist level finder.
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Hello all, my name is William Rennaker. I am a lifestyle photographer in Nassau, Bahamas.
I shoot the P45 on the Contax. I do Lifestyle and Portrait. While I love the lack of crop factor of the P45 compared to the P30, I am finding the P45 slightly too slow for Lifestyle work. I am attempting to switch to the P30 when the Plus version arrives. (I bought the Plus, but have the Non-Plus as a loaner). Also, shooting tethered, the recycle rate slows down even further, compared to shooting to Extreme IV cards. That might not affect you but it does me, with advertising work, when tethered is required. Also, I find the Input Profiles for the P30 to be far superior to the P45 profiles; the P30 skin tone is amazing, right out of the box. The P45 can tend toward red, and for me, required a custom profile to pull red.
As far as Hasselblad or Contax, no difference. Both great cameras. Although, I'd not want that cable to fool with, or become unplugged. The Contax is a joy to use. (I hated the H too, and sold my whole system.) The Contax is effortless; they can be found most anywhere with some searching, even brand new.
Good luck in your search. Try to TEST both back before committing, in YOUR STYLE of shooting, in real world conditions. Do not take anyone's advice, (especially mine).
MT, http://www.marktucker.com (http://www.marktucker.com)
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All I hear is how great the P30 skin tones are compared to the P25/P45. I'd love to see some side by sides done with both backs if anyone has it.
Mark, would you say that with your custom profile the p45 skin tones equal the p30 or is the p30 just better no matter what?
I just don't think I can put up with the crop factor!! P35 "full frame" where are you?!?!
Jeff
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jeff singer | photography
http://www.jeffsingerphotography.com (http://www.jeffsingerphotography.com)
I shoot the P45 on the Contax. I do Lifestyle and Portrait. While I love the lack of crop factor of the P45 compared to the P30, I am finding the P45 slightly too slow for Lifestyle work. I am attempting to switch to the P30 when the Plus version arrives. (I bought the Plus, but have the Non-Plus as a loaner). Also, shooting tethered, the recycle rate slows down even further, compared to shooting to Extreme IV cards. That might not affect you but it does me, with advertising work, when tethered is required. Also, I find the Input Profiles for the P30 to be far superior to the P45 profiles; the P30 skin tone is amazing, right out of the box. The P45 can tend toward red, and for me, required a custom profile to pull red.
As far as Hasselblad or Contax, no difference. Both great cameras. Although, I'd not want that cable to fool with, or become unplugged. The Contax is a joy to use. (I hated the H too, and sold my whole system.) The Contax is effortless; they can be found most anywhere with some searching, even brand new.
Good luck in your search. Try to TEST both back before committing, in YOUR STYLE of shooting, in real world conditions. Do not take anyone's advice, (especially mine).
MT, http://www.marktucker.com (http://www.marktucker.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103844\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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All I hear is how great the P30 skin tones are compared to the P25/P45. I'd love to see some side by sides done with both backs if anyone has it.
Mark, would you say that with your custom profile the p45 skin tones equal the p30 or is the p30 just better no matter what?
I just don't think I can put up with the crop factor!! P35 "full frame" where are you?!?!
Jeff
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jeff singer | photography
http://www.jeffsingerphotography.com (http://www.jeffsingerphotography.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103854\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jeff,
I thought the crop factor on the Contax and P30 was really going to bother me, but I can say for certain that I haven't noticed it one time! Before I shot an old Hassy 201F and Canon 1Ds daily. The screen on the Contax with P30 to me is plenty big enough, although it could always be larger!
Ben Edmonson
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Hmm, I haven't actually received my Contax yet... but, my biggest reservation in switching to the Contax was the fact that their prism was so much smaller than other cameras. I just did a quick check comparing it to an H2 and the H2 is much bigger. I know my V prism has a 2.5x magnification while the Contax is a measly 0.8x... so a crop factor with a Contax has me even more worried.
But, like I said... I haven't received my Contax yet so I guess I'll have to wait and see.
Jeff
Jeff,
I thought the crop factor on the Contax and P30 was really going to bother me, but I can say for certain that I haven't noticed it one time! Before I shot an old Hassy 201F and Canon 1Ds daily. The screen on the Contax with P30 to me is plenty big enough, although it could always be larger!
Ben Edmonson
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103856\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hmm, I haven't actually received my Contax yet... but, my biggest reservation in switching to the Contax was the fact that their prism was so much smaller than other cameras. I just did a quick check comparing it to an H2 and the H2 is much bigger. I know my V prism has a 2.5x magnification while the Contax is a measly 0.8x... so a crop factor with a Contax has me even more worried.
But, like I said... I haven't received my Contax yet so I guess I'll have to wait and see.
Jeff
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103884\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's what I'm saying I did the same thing before I got my Contax, but after all is said and done, it hasn't bothered me one bit. I really thought it would after doing the specs comparison. The other thing I'm doing is have Bill Maxwell build me a better brighter screen for the contax, it only cost around $200.00.
Ben
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I'm also using the P30 w. the Contax, and I was also surprised at how little I've noticed the crop factor, either thru the viewfinder or with my widest wide angle (the 35mm). And this is coming from someone who's a die-hard "full framer" when it comes to 35mm DSLRs.
That's what I'm saying I did the same thing before I got my Contax, but after all is said and done, it hasn't bothered me one bit. I really thought it would after doing the specs comparison. The other thing I'm doing is have Bill Maxwell build me a better brighter screen for the contax, it only cost around $200.00.
Ben
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103902\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I'm also using the P30 w. the Contax, and I was also surprised at how little I've noticed the crop factor, either thru the viewfinder or with my widest wide angle (the 35mm). And this is coming from someone who's a die-hard "full framer" when it comes to 35mm DSLRs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103903\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have a P30 that is mounted to a Mamiya. Phase supplied a set of inserts to mark off the crop factor. I did not care for it. I emailed Yair at Leaf and he told me about a Leaf branded Mamiya screen for the camera that showed the same crop factor as the Phase P30. (The Aptus 65 is the same chip size.)
I purchased it from Steve Hendrix in Atlanta. Leaf may make screens for the Contax also. Suggest you try that route. If you are shooting with a H1/H2 camera - Anton Young of Empire Capture in NYC (http://www.empirecapture.com) makes a insert that blocks off the unused area.
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From what I was told by the Phase One dealer, all that is needed is a single cable from the lens to the back. Don't see why I would be misled? I would like to hear from other V users as well.
Tomorrow I am goiing to order the back and need to pick a mount.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103640\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thats correct! just one data cable that goes from the lens to the back. Ive been using HassyV/P20 for over couple of years. Except for some times, where the wire gets a little fiddly, it is not an issue. I also have a 5D. but two different animals altogether. In terms of quality, there's no match. But for casual handheld on the go situations, MF is a little tricky...
Best to test drive b4 hand
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One of the V issues was lack of eltric connections. I believe the 555 body worked quite well with the Kodak back (some years back) so I assume that the need for cables is simply a lack of communication shutter to back.
It is one of the reasons that I switched to Contax for my Hasselblad lenses.
That said, the V later bodies should only need the shutter trip cable to communicate with the Phase back. The phase back DOES need a wake up though, so I wonder if there is a second fire needed.
Regards
Victor
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I have a P30 that is mounted to a Mamiya. Phase supplied a set of inserts to mark off the crop factor. I did not care for it. I emailed Yair at Leaf and he told me about a Leaf branded Mamiya screen for the camera that showed the same crop factor as the Phase P30. (The Aptus 65 is the same chip size.)
I purchased it from Steve Hendrix in Atlanta. Leaf may make screens for the Contax also. Suggest you try that route. If you are shooting with a H1/H2 camera - Anton Young of Empire Capture in NYC (http://www.empirecapture.com) makes a insert that blocks off the unused area.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=103918\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i have a set of antons view finder masks for my h1, they are great, its not just one mask, but a colection of masks from normal crop to square, several differnt wide crops. ther seems to be a mask that suits what ever format im shooting. no more drawing lines on my focusing screen
paul
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Victor,
The Hasselblad 500 series body actually has a pin in the rear that wakes the back up when you
fire the camera.
Chris Lawery
Capture Integration
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Victor,
The Hasselblad 500 series body actually has a pin in the rear that wakes the back up when you
fire the camera.
Chris Lawery
Capture Integration
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107366\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just make sure the pin is clean (alcohol + wipe) or the back will not wake up.