Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: JTFOTO on January 26, 2007, 07:57:16 pm
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I am new here and have been digital only about a year. Coming from 99% RZ work and now have an H1 w/ a P25 and a Canon 1Ds MII.
I shoot and assist. Trying to let go of the crutch of assisting, but it can be a bit tough. I decided to lease my own gear to have instead of rent.
I have assisted most of the big guys and girls. From Sims and McDean to Meisel & Testino. I recently had the pleasure of working with Annie Liebovitz as a 5th.
She has been shooting all her editorial work with Canon 1Ds MII bodies. These have been major jobs for Vanity Fair and various other mags and recently went on a major Ad job that will be worldwide.
The TomKat cover was all Canon and the last two or three editorials were all Canon.
The last shoot had a Canon rep come by with the new 22MP digi demo body. It is half the size of the 1Ds Mark II. They said they are hustling to make lenses that will work with what this body can resolve. They may even make a new mount again for an entirely new lens design. It won't be out before Phot Show East.
So to all the people out there saying that 35 digi doesn't work and clients don't like it and it looks softer. If Annie can use it for major Editorial work, why can't we. Shoot raw and tweek it in post.
I am going back to 35mm and the ease and wait for the new Can2235. Anyone want an H1 w/ a P25, two lenses 50-110 & 150, 1.7 extender and two extension tubes PM me.
We chase our own tails thinking we need this and that. A couple of 35DIGI's and four or five lenses and we are good to go. Pefectly fitting in one comfortable bag.
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I suppose you need to look at the work you do and the difference you see.
Yes optics are the main reason I went back to a MF DB. When you look at a better sensor, better optics and less time in post it starts adding up.
I think Annie used to shoot RZ and appeared to be sponsored by Mamiya (at lease I remember Mamiya ads with her work). Maybe that sort of deal has an influence on what she uses now, but those deals aren't available to everyone. Or perhaps she thought that if she has to turn the camera on its side to shoot a vertical then you might as well use 35mm.
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So to all the people out there saying that 35 digi doesn't work and clients don't like it and it looks softer. If Annie can use it for major Editorial work, why can't we. Shoot raw and tweek it in post.
Most people who shoot with medium format seem to prefer the large viewfinder, or the waistlevel view or the lenses, or the way the detachable back can be used on a view camera, or the ease of cleaning the sensor, etc, not the resolution per se. No amount of megapixels from Canon could make me switch back to that tiny and miscalibrated viewfinder.
Also unknown is the cost. Those ultra-sharp lenses may well be double the cost of L lenses, not to mention that a decent range of them might not be out for several years.
The body itself will be in the region of $10K. It sounds like a body and 4 of the new lenses could set you back nearly $20K.
Pie in the sky
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yeah the canons suck for just the most important function" looking through the viewfinder and shooting waht you see"........I started on medium format and once you have looked through those beautiful viewfinders you cant go back. smooth as velvet. go ahead and compare the files on your monitor but once you start working in the field it really comes down to "what camera do I want to work with every day".......I hate my canon 1Ds, it doesnt feel like a real camera.
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ds1markII is perfect for all work...including billboard size images and you will NOT be able to tell the difference!!
I know this because I have been shooting with the ds1 for over 2 years and have had BB up in NYC and LA.....BUT I still bought myself a A65..WHY??? because I can and I like to shoot without having to crop 20% from the image to get it in magazine format! and there is a difference.
I will also not stop shooting with my DS1..love the camera and it is a great backup to my A65.
If you assisted Ms Liebowitz....you also know she shoots A75 on Mamyia's 645afd.....but if you are at her level...you can shoot with a disposable camera and people will still kiss your ass and tell you the image is fabulous......this comes from years and years and years of shooting and starting in the right decade..when photographers were regarded as artists....now we are just regarded as a push-button fingers...and thanks to many "idiots" out there calling themselves photographers and shooting for pennies!!! Pretty soon most of us will end up as nothing more than just the art directors assistant!
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Nicolaasdb!
You couldn't have said it any better!
(.but if you are at her level...you can shoot with a disposable camera and people will still kiss your ass and tell you the image is fabulous......this comes from years and years and years of shooting and starting in the right decade..when photographers were regarded as artists....now we are just regarded as a push-button fingers...and thanks to many "idiots" out there calling themselves photographers and shooting for pennies!!! Pretty soon most of us will end up as nothing more than just the art directors assistant!)
Cheers,
Willem
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All I can say is that I've been shooting with the Canon 1Ds, 6x6 film and 4x5 for years and just took delivery of a brand new Phase One P30 2 days ago. After my first test shoot today shooting outside strobes tethered to my laptop I'm sold!!! The image straight out of the camera processed thru C1 Pro was dead on, all i did was fine tune the WB and add a "70's LOOK" for fun. I'm sold! I've croppped this shot quite abit.
Cheers,
Ben Edmonson
www.benedmonson.com
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The last shoot had a Canon rep come by with the new 22MP digi demo body. It is half the size of the 1Ds Mark II. They said they are hustling to make lenses that will work with what this body can resolve. They may even make a new mount again for an entirely new lens design.
How can they have a demo body before they have decided on the lens mount??
Ben, that file sings to me
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If Canon is coming out with a new camera late this year, the Dalsa & Kodax will have to make a true FF sensor. Otherwise MFD will lose even more market share. Nikon will be anouncing new cameras this year also.
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When Canon or Nikon is coming with a new camera that rivals the quality of my MFDB more power to them! I will definitely buy one that is for sure.
But sofar my MFDB makes a 1DSMkII as well as a D2x look like a toy camera qualitywise and as long as that is the case I will continue to use my MFDB when quality really counts.
Naturally there are applications where I use the Nikon. Saying that you cannot see the difference means that you have bad eyes or you are just fooling yourself for whatever reason.
Funny that the topic starter felt the need to name famous/well-recognized photographers to try to get some credibility for himself. Is that 'greatness by association' or something
Sofar I have seen no indication whatsoever that Nikon or Canon will come with a FF (or bigger) 22MP sensor with a 12stops DR and 16bits colors anywhere. The only place where they currently exist is in speculations on the Internet.
I would say, 'SHOW ME THE MONEY'!
Designing and fabricating new higher resolution glass is a major project. The statement that Canon will come with a whole new line of high resolution glass including a new mount sounds like SF.
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the Dalsa & Kodax will have to make a true FF sensor.
Steady on. Dalsa can't yet reliably make a 33Mp sensor without an f-ing line down the middle.
Frankly another 2mm this way or that on the sensor dimension won't change anything. I will be happy with an A75 and a clean sensor, which luckily I do have.
I think the lead post is bull in any case. Canon would alreay be shipping sharper lenses if it was easy to make them at the right price point.
Love my A75, but for fast moving editorial style work I also stick with the 1DsII, there is no way an MF camera can compete with the speed of operation of the Canon, nor need it to have value.
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I am new here and have been digital only about a year. Coming from 99% RZ work and now have an H1 w/ a P25 and a Canon 1Ds MII.
I shoot and assist. Trying to let go of the crutch of assisting, but it can be a bit tough. I decided to lease my own gear to have instead of rent.
I have assisted most of the big guys and girls. From Sims and McDean to Meisel & Testino. I recently had the pleasure of working with Annie Liebovitz as a 5th.
She has been shooting all her editorial work with Canon 1Ds MII bodies. These have been major jobs for Vanity Fair and various other mags and recently went on a major Ad job that will be worldwide.
The TomKat cover was all Canon and the last two or three editorials were all Canon.
The last shoot had a Canon rep come by with the new 22MP digi demo body. It is half the size of the 1Ds Mark II. They said they are hustling to make lenses that will work with what this body can resolve. They may even make a new mount again for an entirely new lens design. It won't be out before Phot Show East.
So to all the people out there saying that 35 digi doesn't work and clients don't like it and it looks softer. If Annie can use it for major Editorial work, why can't we. Shoot raw and tweek it in post.
I am going back to 35mm and the ease and wait for the new Can2235. Anyone want an H1 w/ a P25, two lenses 50-110 & 150, 1.7 extender and two extension tubes PM me.
We chase our own tails thinking we need this and that. A couple of 35DIGI's and four or five lenses and we are good to go. Pefectly fitting in one comfortable bag.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97712\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I doubt that Canon will reveal a new camera in front of so many people that will be
on a shoot with AL.
Canon is exstremly carefull not to reveal any of their news before they are ready to
present a finished product.
People working for Canon have been fired for leaking out to the press information on
what to come.
No way they will let JTPhoto tell a story like this.
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I doubt that Canon will reveal a new camera in front of so many people that will be
on a shoot with AL.
Canon is exstremly carefull not to reveal any of their news before they are ready to
present a finished product.
People working for Canon have been fired for leaking out to the press information on
what to come.
No way they will let JTPhoto tell a story like this.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97759\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
They've been going round circulating various prototypes for more than a year now. What the actual product to hit the streets will be nobody except them knows for sure. Of course, I'm sceptical that the prototype's files Raw would be easily processed with off the shelf software
Edmund
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Steady on. Dalsa can't yet reliably make a 33Mp sensor without an f-ing line down the middle.
Frankly another 2mm this way or that on the sensor dimension won't change anything. I will be happy with an A75 and a clean sensor, which luckily I do have.
I think the lead post is bull in any case. Canon would alreay be shipping sharper lenses if it was easy to make them at the right price point.
Love my A75, but for fast moving editorial style work I also stick with the 1DsII, there is no way an MF camera can compete with the speed of operation of the Canon, nor need it to have value.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97756\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is all he said she said type of stuff and true or not it's really not relevent. Editorial is way diferent than commercial and even when it's not, it's the talent not the capture that matters, though better capture can make a better image.
Most of us use what we use as an elective, not a mandatory from a client, so when we go to work we use what we are comfortable with.
This week I shot 4000 files with the P-30 and about a thousand with a 1ds2, some of them side by side and except in very extreme low light or a couple of instances where I needed someone running in sequence, there was absolutley no ease or benifit it using the Canon vs. the P-30 and I can promise you the diffference in the files is very much worth the price difference between the two systems.
In fact unless someone shows me images side by side or unless I test something myself nothing about a camera is relevent to me.
Still, this is just rumor and once again even if true really adds nothing to the discussion of why we anyone should chose a certain camera or solution.
ISO, color, software, file depth, format, lenses and workflow all play into the reasons, but just because anyone decides to shoot with one camera or the other should not be a deciding factor.
Try it for yourself.
JR
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As a Canon 1-series shooter, I like the files I get, but at the same time, I'm well aware that digital MF goes a step beyond my Canons in terms of overall resolution and dynamic range, at least at lower ISO. Each format has its own advantages and disadvantages, and claiming tha one is better than another is somewhat like claiming that a 3/4 inch wrench is intrinsically superior to a 1/2 inch wrench. The best tool is the one that fits the task you're trying to accomplish. For fast action, especially in low light, MF is not the best tool for the job. For slower-paced work, especially in the controlled environment of a studio, digital MF has many advantages. Whether those advantages are worth the extra cost of digital MF is something each photographer should decide for himself.
The OP seems to be a s##t-disturber lacking in both tact and real experience.
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The last shoot had a Canon rep come by with the new 22MP digi demo body. It is half the size of the 1Ds Mark II. They said they are hustling to make lenses that will work with what this body can resolve. They may even make a new mount again for an entirely new lens design. It won't be out before Phot Show East.
this is yet one more illustration of why this forum should require more information from someone who posts information. yet it's reichmann's choice to allow this potential misinformation to spread.
so this character shows up here, posts under an alias, (just like i'm doing), and posts potentially questionable information, some which might even sully the name of an established commercial photographer, and might also violate an NDA, and yet, the post is either not deleted, or at least, the person not asked to clarify further.
cannot imagine that canon would allow a "freelance fifth assistant" to see a new product like this, when with one post on the web, and all the details are leaked in an instant, for all the world to see. is it true; i guess we'll never know. if it is true, i'm sure annie will be eager to hire this guy again, now that he potentially violated her NDA. no wonder he's still assisting, when he uses judgement like this.
charles_m
not a real person
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I am reluctant to act as censor here. I delete spam, profanity, rudeness, and outright stupidity, but otherwise work on the assumption that we're all grown-ups, and able to seperate the wheat from the chaff for ourselves.
Censorship is a slippery slope, which I have enough trouble with when skiiing so that I don't need it here as well.
Michael
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I am reluctant to act as censor here. I delete spam, profanity, rudeness, and outright stupidity, but otherwise work on the assumption that we're all grown-ups, and able to seperate the wheat from the chaff for ourselves.
Censorship is a slippery slope, which I have enough trouble with when skiiing so that I don't need it here as well.
Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97778\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Excellent! I believe you are quite right in this. Potential misinformation can and is spread virtually everywhere. Even quality newspapers do it daily, knowingly or not.
It can never be an excuse to shut of your own brain. Everybody should take his own responsibility whether to believe a story/post/whatever or not. There is a growing tendency of shoving away this responsibility towards others, this is unfortunate.
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JTFOTO,
And your point is ?????????. I don't get it - all this enthusiasm over something that doesn't exist.
And if it did exist now - so what? It would be just another choice in what I call the "circle of confusion" in existing equipment choices.
I think most or all of us shoot both formats for a pretty simple reason - there is no one solution that will do it all. Was there ever one choice? Actually I think that even the concept of the 2 different formats are irrelevant now or will be in the near future. No one knows where this is going to evolve into-not even the camera companies.
For me, right now, for the jobs I have to shoot next week, I need a 35mm body and a mf back. Prototypes are something I don't have the time to get excited about.
Nicolassdb,
Excellent point, well said, and made me laugh.
Best,
Frank Poole
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We can be very lucky to use this wonderful forum, without the rudeness and behaviour we see on dpreview and elsewhere. If a troll shows up, the best thing to do is simply ignoring his post. I mean, i would not register to a forum and behave like the OP did. There are other ways to say the same thing. I would not go to a soccer forum and explain that i don't like sports.
Back to topic: I really hope there is place in our business, for more than one camera brand with two f:2,8 zooms. If everybody is using the same toy, there will be nothing more left to use in 10 years. My sh*tty old Blad is doing very well, with it's upside down viewfinder, it's huge mirror, lenses that only go to F:4. And i don't feel the need to upgrade every 2 years and can wait for the P25++ to come out.
tom-
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I am reluctant to act as censor here. I delete spam, profanity, rudeness, and outright stupidity, but otherwise work on the assumption that we're all grown-ups, and able to seperate the wheat from the chaff for ourselves.
Censorship is a slippery slope, which I have enough trouble with when skiiing so that I don't need it here as well.
Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97778\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well said! Bravo !
Edmund
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I recall Michael saying that this was going to be a big year for Canon, with many new innovations (or words to those effect).
Is this what you had in mind Michael?
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I did a test a few months ago....
A friend of mine says his nikon d70 is incredibly sharp and a fantastic camera. The 1.3x factor is agreat advantage against 1.6x don't you think? he asked me... He talks a lot about resolution, etc...
The next day... I asked him to look throught my 1Ds. He went like "woooww that's big and bright". Beautiful! Then I took my H1 out of my bag, and then his face was just like frozen... he just said: ahhh yes, a medium format camera... of course.... you have to pay a little more for that kind of experience.......
And I supose most people talking about the great 1dsmII and the new 22mp whatever don't understand that the point with medium/big format photography is not only the quality of the images, is the beautiful photo-experience-feeling that this type of cameras can give.
Please Canoners, leave the MFormaters alone !!
Best Regards
Samuel
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And I supose most people talking about the great 1dsmII and the new 22mp whatever don't understand that the point with medium/big format photography is not only the quality of the images, is the beautiful photo-experience-feeling that this type of cameras can give.
Please Canoners, leave the MFormaters alone !!
Thats really only true for the H1. The Mamiya and Contax both have viewfinders that are similar to the 1Ds. If you start cropping with a 1.1x or a 1.3x (like the P30) you end up with a smaller viewfinder area. Personally I dont need a big viewfinder to make a good photograph. Usually the work is done before i put the camera to my face.
Ps! The Nikon is 1.5x not 1.3x
Erik
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I think one of the questions here has to be what differences can be seen in the final reproduction. It's easy to look at a computer screen at 100% view and see differences between cameras. But it seems to me that the magazine page (which Annie is often shooting for) is the great equalizer.
I can only assume that Annie would not be using the Canons if she opened Vanity Fair to find that the 1DsII made her look like an arse due to inferior-looking images, compared to her beloved RZ or whatever she's been using most recently. I make this assumption based on the amazing quality of her prints, many of which I have seen in her gallery shows, including huge prints from the Pirelli calendar, the current show in Brooklyn, etc, etc.
As far as I can tell, she clearly knows a thing or two about reproduction/print quality. And for her small-time advertising clients such as Disney, American Express, etc. the Canon seems to be good enough.
They could probably all sit around a computer monitor and point out differences between files from X and Y camera, but who cares? The operative question seems to be how does it look in the magazine or on those huge America Express billboards? Could any of us look through Annie's published work and tell which was shot with which camera? Could we tell if she used film or digital, or which format?
Of course none of this means that the 35mm cameras are good enough for everyone or for every application...especially if you really want to have a detailed view of WTF is happening in the viewfinder.
[Also, I agree with the above poster. The way I shoot, most of the work is done before I look through the camera. And quite often I am tethered and use the computer monitor as the "viewfinder" after the shot. It's obviously way more detailed that any viewfinder is ever going to be.]
-ron
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JTFOTO, I say this with all due respect (for someone who drops other's names but not their own) but who gives a crap what you or your heros shoot with?!
Furthermore, dpreview has a canon forum where people peddle rumors endlessly. Your post would be right at home there.
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Personally I dont need a big viewfinder to make a good photograph. Usually the work is done before i put the camera to my face.
Ps! The Nikon is 1.5x not 1.3x
Erik
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97857\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's exactly the question. I like the bright big viewfinder.
Yes, 1.5 then...
Best regards
Samuel
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Hi, everyone. I'm a new forum user. I'm an F-1 user (among other things in other formats), and haven't been using digital too long. I use a Mk. II-N that I have had for almost a year now, and very shortly had a used 20D for backup, but I just broke it...ouch. I am a student journalist who has done some freelance photo editing (Foto-Station work) for Getty Images.
The one (and only) rumor that I have heard several times from one of the top editors there (and that for some reason has not made it into the rumor mills) is that the most exciting feature of the new camera may be a built-in wireless transmitter. Canon bounces ideas back and forth with the press when designing their cameras, and that seemed to be the biggest topic of conversation from for the new model. (Fun trivia: The current Wi-Fi transmitter was an afterthought. Canon did not plan on releasing any wireless technology until the Mk. III, but the press raised such a stink that the technology was going to be in existence, but not usable for several more years, that Canon went ahead and released the external unit, rather than waiting to build it in.) More megapixels don't mean diddly squat for journalists. They are fine with their current 8.2 and 16.7 models, and even use the Mk. Is every now and then when needed. Some even prefer the 1st 1D because a higher flash synch is more important to them than a larger file. More megapixels really are more of a burden than a help in that line of work. In other lines of photography, there is cause for celebration if they are really going up to a 22 MPixel sensor, but not journalism. Larger file sizes mean they need faster computers, MUCH faster networks, and a ton more server space. They shoot JPEG anyhow, to speed up editing and FTP, and thus make sales on the spot from the field, so they are never getting the max quality from their cameras anyhow.
So, as far as I see it, the new sensor wouldn't really mean much to me. What I want to see instead are a higher flash synch, a more comfortable camera (Nikon really has it down for comfort and ease of control...too bad they are so far behind the technology curve that they aren't even worth purchasing unless you already have a bunch of lenses), a nice big viewfinder, interchangeable prisms, view finder masks for composing in different formats...Seriously. For what I want in a camera, they need to perfect the weaknesses in what they already have before adding megapixels. I want one body that is the most versatile camera around (not necessarily the best, mind you), and I want it to remain unchanged for at least 10 years.
I don't expect to get it, but does anyone else feel similarly?
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I don't expect to get it, but does anyone else feel similarly?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97884\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Aspeedgraphic
Yes, the journalists need a fast versatile camera rather than the best quality - but this is the MF forum where most of the guys have big resolution cameras with very fine file quality, and the rest of us try to make our pictures look as good as if we had
Edmund
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I don't see why we are hanging the messenger here, the guy saw a prototype 22mp canon, great, interesting news, why get so upset about it? With regard to the big people being elevated because they came from a time when photographers were regarded as artists i have to disagree, they are regarded as such because they are better, simple as that, and also what cameras they use is more important than what the rest of us use because they are better than us and are therefore in a better place to judge what is "better".
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- but this is the MF forum where most of the guys have big resolution cameras with very fine file quality, and the rest of us try to make our pictures look as good as if we had
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97890\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Edmund---loved that last phrase.
Diane
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To all the people ragging. Well, i guess you need to let it out somewhere.
To the few that didn't mind my news. Thank you
I didn't get to hold the thing, I didn't get to shoot it either. They were showing it with a 85/1.2 and a 50/1.2 but they stated the lens couldn't resolve what their sensors were capable of. this is why they are also considering a bit of bigger mount. NOT MF! so don't start that crap.
Annie has been shooting Canon, Leaf, H1, Phase anything she wants. As one of the guys here said that he has the shot before the camera comes to his eye. EXACTLY!!
Is the viewfinder bigger in MF? SURE! But only in the 33+ MP backs. But a cropped MFDB on a MF and the image becomes darker and smaller. But they are also so much slower!
I doubt Annie signed a damn thing for Canon other than a print. No offense to some of the reps here. But the majority of reps are the biggest geeks in the world that get so excited to be on a set. I am sure they heard Annie was in town spoke to her rep and wanted to come by and show off a new piece. I was about ten feet away during a break and noticed the camera and then from speaking to the other people on set learned about it. Later in the day the rep befriended the Assistants and chatted us up as he could not go near the shooting or the set and Annie was busy with the celebrities and clients. So he was looking for somene to geek out with.
It doesn't matter what I say because no one else will catch up with Canon.
Unless Nikon throws some kind of Hail Marry and make it. They will still be second.
Annie likes the speed of the Canon and quality of the file.
As for her shows. I don't think any Print from the shows or her books are digital. This is all old film i.e. RZ, Mamiya 6, 7, Fuji 670 & 690.
And Yes, I do admire her work and the work of many other shooters for the ney sayers. That is why I got into this business. For anyone ragging on me and living outside of NYC. Come to NYC, LA, Paris, London, or Milan and try to make it and pay the bills. Ahh, there is a rude awakening. Enjoy the weddings, kid portraits, family portraits, pet portraits, Online dating portraits with your $1,000 rent for 3,000 sq ft.
Come try to compete in a major market. Then let's see what you do.
Yes, I assist to pay the bills and I have been trying to leave it and have done so and able to survive. I still get pick up work after the holidays and when i need cash.
Yes, it is an abbreviation name on my post. I am not sure if Annie would be happy or not. But I did this because of all the GEEKS out here and dreamers that want a bit of information on what to expect. EXECUSE THE F*&K out of me. YOUR WELCOME!
So I hope the IDIOTS who ragged on me go out and buy the New bestest greatest glass Canon has right now. Then come November Canon scews you all and announces their newest bestest glass WITH A NEW MOUNT. Take that.
So go spend your hard earned dollars and then take it in the @$$ when you have to sell it at a loss because it won't work with the new body that you want. (sorry Michael, one of the guys annoyed me)
I said I would give up my H1 because I don't like the speed or the lock of 100 asa. If I need to let her rip, I want that ability. If I want to comfortably shoot 400, I want that ability.
I would love the ability to have a small system to carry around that can do it all. Canon Speed and flexibility, MF & Leica quality. WHO DOESN'T? If you don't, then go get your self an 8x10 and be my guest.
I just want to shoot and have that the easiest way possible. That use to mean a 645, a few lenses with NPH or NPZ and drop it at the lab.
Now it is computers, hard drives, processing software, freezes, etc..., etc..., etc...
You're Welcome!
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i don't see the problem with the post....we all know that the next canon will be 22mpix, and because the lenses pretty much suck now and canon needs to introduce a new line....nothing really new here and the fact that none of this will see the light of day really until 2008 is no surprise either....
i worked for a couple of years as a freelence assistant in NY for the big boys and girls and i also believe that the rep came by and shows a prototype....no real surprises there, happens all the time....
why a fifth assistant would have a H1/P25 and canon 1dsII is a little beyond me and why seeing the prototype of a camera one year away would all of a sudden de-value the P25 is even stranger....
we all know that terry richardson shoots throwaway point and shoots and does international campaings with them....we also know that the guy who prints the negs from the 10$ camera for the campaigns gets paid more then a DMFback costs...it is all about getting the look that sets you apart from the others....a P45 or A75 or DSMkIII or P&S..it does not matter....
i used to have canons and was never really happy with the files or the final prints....but then my files were never dropped off at the best digital retouch places, i haven't been so lucky to have these budgets....
the canons produce amazing files....hell, my SE cellphone shoots amazing 3.2mpix files that print very nicely up to 8x10.....i have seen editorials (fashion) shot with cellphones, the novelty is too hard to resist and is has a look and people go: ha! how clever! shot with a cellphone! so will i make a book with shots from my cellphone? no, not for me....i am very happy with the quality, the tones from my P30 and the prints i can make on my 4800....that is something i am proud to present and that's what matters....
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To all the people ragging. Well, i guess you need to let it out somewhere.
To the few that didn't mind my news. Thank you
I didn't get to hold the thing, I didn't get to shoot it either. They were showing it with a 85/1.2 and a 50/1.2 but they stated the lens couldn't resolve what their sensors were capable of. this is why they are also considering a bit of bigger mount. NOT MF! so don't start that crap.
Annie has been shooting Canon, Leaf, H1, Phase anything she wants. As one of the guys here said that he has the shot before the camera comes to his eye. EXACTLY!!
Is the viewfinder bigger in MF? SURE! But only in the 33+ MP backs. But a cropped MFDB on a MF and the image becomes darker and smaller. But they are also so much slower!
I doubt Annie signed a damn thing for Canon other than a print. No offense to some of the reps here. But the majority of reps are the biggest geeks in the world that get so excited to be on a set. I am sure they heard Annie was in town spoke to her rep and wanted to come by and show off a new piece. I was about ten feet away during a break and noticed the camera and then from speaking to the other people on set learned about it. Later in the day the rep befriended the Assistants and chatted us up as he could not go near the shooting or the set and Annie was busy with the celebrities and clients. So he was looking for somene to geek out with.
It doesn't matter what I say because no one else will catch up with Canon.
Unless Nikon throws some kind of Hail Marry and make it. They will still be second.
Annie likes the speed of the Canon and quality of the file.
As for her shows. I don't think any Print from the shows or her books are digital. This is all old film i.e. RZ, Mamiya 6, 7, Fuji 670 & 690.
And Yes, I do admire her work and the work of many other shooters for the ney sayers. That is why I got into this business. For anyone ragging on me and living outside of NYC. Come to NYC, LA, Paris, London, or Milan and try to make it and pay the bills. Ahh, there is a rude awakening. Enjoy the weddings, kid portraits, family portraits, pet portraits, Online dating portraits with your $1,000 rent for 3,000 sq ft.
Come try to compete in a major market. Then let's see what you do.
Yes, I assist to pay the bills and I have been trying to leave it and have done so and able to survive. I still get pick up work after the holidays and when i need cash.
Yes, it is an abbreviation name on my post. I am not sure if Annie would be happy or not. But I did this because of all the GEEKS out here and dreamers that want a bit of information on what to expect. EXECUSE THE F*&K out of me. YOUR WELCOME!
So I hope the IDIOTS who ragged on me go out and buy the New bestest greatest glass Canon has right now. Then come November Canon scews you all and announces their newest bestest glass WITH A NEW MOUNT. Take that.
So go spend your hard earned dollars and then take it in the @$$ when you have to sell it at a loss because it won't work with the new body that you want. (sorry Michael, one of the guys annoyed me)
I said I would give up my H1 because I don't like the speed or the lock of 100 asa. If I need to let her rip, I want that ability. If I want to comfortably shoot 400, I want that ability.
I would love the ability to have a small system to carry around that can do it all. Canon Speed and flexibility, MF & Leica quality. WHO DOESN'T? If you don't, then go get your self an 8x10 and be my guest.
I just want to shoot and have that the easiest way possible. That use to mean a 645, a few lenses with NPH or NPZ and drop it at the lab.
Now it is computers, hard drives, processing software, freezes, etc..., etc..., etc...
You're Welcome!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
1000$ for 3000sqft? i guess you mean 1500$ for 400sqft...at least that's what i paid for my first appartment in chelsea...and this was in the early 90s...can't imagine it got cheaper...
i now shoot mamiya 645 afdII with P30, hopefully P30+ soon....about the same weight as canon, af is a little slower, but fast enough for fashion, finder is way bigger, lenses are a lot cheaper and actually a lot better....the P+ will shoot 1600asa at almost 1frame/sec....16bit, 31mpix....it will be really hard for canon to convince me to go to 22mpix, pay 2000$ per lens just so i can get fast AF with 2 frames/sec (which my flashes don't support anyway and i would not shoot anyway either)....IF this camera is even 16bit....AND phase completely stops all development for the next year....
i don't doubt what you saw at all, again nothing really surprising, but nothing to get excited about ..for me...
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A lot of what the guy says makes sense - but no surprises.
And anyone in this forum knows how to use a point and shoot to effect - although we"re equipment geeks, I think none of us is *forced* to be that except the sports/action guys an they're not *here*.
Edmund
i don't doubt what you saw at all, again nothing really surprising, but nothing to get excited about ..for me...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97975\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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They were showing it with a 85/1.2 and a 50/1.2 but they stated the lens couldn't resolve what their sensors were capable of. this is why they are also considering a bit of bigger mount. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
not that I wish to fan these flames, but this makes little sense.
a lens that has higher resolution doesn't need a bigger mount. it needs better quality control, using the latest optical designs and manufacturing procedures, glass etc. it isn't about the size of the mount at all.
excuse me if I am misunderstanding what you are saying otherwise.
personally I still do think Canon will bring out an MF camera.
it must gall them so much that their own press shots of 1Ds2 and 1D2 are made on a Phase One MF back.
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Is it possible that people are reacting negatively more to your attitude than the information in your post? If someone spoke to you in the tone you posted here, would you react positively to that?
To all the people ragging. Well, i guess you need to let it out somewhere.
To the few that didn't mind my news. Thank you
I didn't get to hold the thing, I didn't get to shoot it either. They were showing it with a 85/1.2 and a 50/1.2 but they stated the lens couldn't resolve what their sensors were capable of. this is why they are also considering a bit of bigger mount. NOT MF! so don't start that crap.
Annie has been shooting Canon, Leaf, H1, Phase anything she wants. As one of the guys here said that he has the shot before the camera comes to his eye. EXACTLY!!
Is the viewfinder bigger in MF? SURE! But only in the 33+ MP backs. But a cropped MFDB on a MF and the image becomes darker and smaller. But they are also so much slower!
I doubt Annie signed a damn thing for Canon other than a print. No offense to some of the reps here. But the majority of reps are the biggest geeks in the world that get so excited to be on a set. I am sure they heard Annie was in town spoke to her rep and wanted to come by and show off a new piece. I was about ten feet away during a break and noticed the camera and then from speaking to the other people on set learned about it. Later in the day the rep befriended the Assistants and chatted us up as he could not go near the shooting or the set and Annie was busy with the celebrities and clients. So he was looking for somene to geek out with.
It doesn't matter what I say because no one else will catch up with Canon.
Unless Nikon throws some kind of Hail Marry and make it. They will still be second.
Annie likes the speed of the Canon and quality of the file.
As for her shows. I don't think any Print from the shows or her books are digital. This is all old film i.e. RZ, Mamiya 6, 7, Fuji 670 & 690.
And Yes, I do admire her work and the work of many other shooters for the ney sayers. That is why I got into this business. For anyone ragging on me and living outside of NYC. Come to NYC, LA, Paris, London, or Milan and try to make it and pay the bills. Ahh, there is a rude awakening. Enjoy the weddings, kid portraits, family portraits, pet portraits, Online dating portraits with your $1,000 rent for 3,000 sq ft.
Come try to compete in a major market. Then let's see what you do.
Yes, I assist to pay the bills and I have been trying to leave it and have done so and able to survive. I still get pick up work after the holidays and when i need cash.
Yes, it is an abbreviation name on my post. I am not sure if Annie would be happy or not. But I did this because of all the GEEKS out here and dreamers that want a bit of information on what to expect. EXECUSE THE F*&K out of me. YOUR WELCOME!
So I hope the IDIOTS who ragged on me go out and buy the New bestest greatest glass Canon has right now. Then come November Canon scews you all and announces their newest bestest glass WITH A NEW MOUNT. Take that.
So go spend your hard earned dollars and then take it in the @$$ when you have to sell it at a loss because it won't work with the new body that you want. (sorry Michael, one of the guys annoyed me)
I said I would give up my H1 because I don't like the speed or the lock of 100 asa. If I need to let her rip, I want that ability. If I want to comfortably shoot 400, I want that ability.
I would love the ability to have a small system to carry around that can do it all. Canon Speed and flexibility, MF & Leica quality. WHO DOESN'T? If you don't, then go get your self an 8x10 and be my guest.
I just want to shoot and have that the easiest way possible. That use to mean a 645, a few lenses with NPH or NPZ and drop it at the lab.
Now it is computers, hard drives, processing software, freezes, etc..., etc..., etc...
You're Welcome!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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To all the people ragging. Well, i guess you need to let it out somewhere.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=97966\")
What kind of a response did you expect?
You make your first post in a medium format digital forum with rumors about a Canon DSLR. Besides being off topic, that is a classic thing for a troll to do. Perhaps you aren't familiar with forums and trolls, but telling people that their $30,000+ investments in MDF is (or soon will be) superfluous wont make you a lot of new friends.
It doesn't matter what I say because no one else will catch up with Canon.
You think one kind of camera fits the needs and preferences of all photographers? I don't find Canons appealing at all. Because of the poor corner quality with wide lenses, and the ergonomics I prefer a Nikon D2x to the Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II, but that's just my preference. A portrait or fashion photographer may not care about the corners and my not use using wide lenses much.
You need to look at the context of your posts if you are surprised by the response you get. Would you go onto a Ferrari forum, and in your first post, tell them that a new Porsche will be better than any Ferrari?
Regards,
Robin Casady
[a href=\"http://www.robincasady.com]http://www.robincasady.com[/url]
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To all the people ragging. Well, i guess you need to let it out somewhere.
You called it a demo body and it clearly isn't a demo. A prototype at best. If you get your facts wrong, people will get annoyed.
To the few that didn't mind my news. Thank you
It isn't news that Canon was working on a 22MP body. It's been discussed for the past year.
Is the viewfinder bigger in MF? SURE! But only in the 33+ MP backs.
Wrong! For start the backs have no viewfinder. If you mean the cropped area of the viewfinder corresponding to the image area of the sensor, then you are still wrong. 16MP, 18MP, 22MP, 31MP, 33MP and 39MP sensors are all bigger than 35mm full frame. The exact size of the view will depend on the camera's optics' magnification factor.
But a cropped MFDB on a MF and the image becomes darker and smaller. But they are also so much slower!
Do you mean 'put'? What's a cropped MFDB? Do you mean a MFDB of less than 645 sensor dimensions? What becomes darker? What is slower? This is one seriously confused post.
It doesn't matter what I say because no one else will catch up with Canon.
Catch up in what race? The Leica DMR even has the Canon flagship licked when it comes to 35mm DSLR IQ. All modern MFDBs beat Canon by a significant margin in IQ. Several cameras beat Canon's flash sync speed. Canon has some catching up to do of it's own. Even Pentax's K10D outperforms Canon's cameras in the same class. Be more specific. Canon only holds a lead in some specific conditions.
Annie likes the speed of the Canon and quality of the file.
But still uses other cameras by choice. What a non-comment.
You're Welcome!
After that outburst and bad language, please don't come back.
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Wheater or not the camera exists is up for grabs and Canon is not saying. I am shocked at the lack of professionalism by an assistant who works on a shoot with possibly some ground breaking camera with any photographer and then talks about it. I would never hire nor recommend someone who does that. What happens on the shoot stays on the shoot, period!
a
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its not getting down to "the" camera... so i made some large architecture shootings mixing 4x5" with the old ( and great iso6 camera ) kodak slr, did some shootings with a 1ds2 or 5d with zoerk adapter and pentax 645 lenses and shoot now over 1 year with sinar mf backs and my gottschalt camera, at 1. still using canons for details but now completely with mf gear after buying a contax camera with many lenses.
all of this systems did not brought 1. class results out of the box but with all of them i could work fine cause i invested enough work to make these cameras fit in my needs .....
the most important thing for my work is the look i can speak with digital, many motifs of my work look different than they did with film and i like that. that was the most important reason for working more and more digital,- so i would go again with 35mm systems if i would not been convinced by my mf system. but this is not visible at all, even if canon would bring out now a 33mp camera together with sharp wideangles with moderate distortion.
for my work the mf solution together with the right camera and lenses is by far the best and easiest workflow i ever had,- so it saves time and delivers a quality and a language and a workflow which might be hard or impossible to reach with other gear.
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Edmund,
I understand. As for the general discussion here: To me, medium format is not just about quality. It's a certain feel and shooting style, and the available use of many different aspect ratios to minimize cropping while printing. I like using a big, awkward, and slow camera for many things. Even if Canon put out a 100MPixel camera that would give large negs a run for their money, it would still feel like a 35, and have the 35 aspect ratio, and thus be no replacement. If you want the 35 feel and composition with quality close to medium format, the new Canon may be worth considering...it'll be like a modern SLR version of the Mamiya Super 23 (one of my most beloved cameras). However, when I shoot medium format, I am after something else than just quality. I like the disciplined and restrained process of using the larger and slower equipment sometimes, and I really like being able to choose several aspect ratios with the same size of film. I have a 6x9 Mamiya, a 6x6 Mamiya, and a 6x7 Pentax. This gives great compositional selection without having to crop, as with 35. If you were to shoot a 35-style camera to crop for these formats, you would just reduce the quality even more. Shooting to crop is a real pet peeve of mine. It wastes quality and makes obtaining a nice composition a lot more difficult....for me, anyhow. I think that those who are looking for a medium format replacement from a 35-style camera are just lazy and confused when it gets down to it. They are after a certain shooting feel, which is a perfectly legitimate reason, but should not be confised with quality debates.
As for Annie Liebovitz... So-and-so uses such-and-such a camera is never a tactic that works on me...So-and-so is not me, and doesn't know what I want and prefer, and in most cases, so-and-so is working for hire, not for themself. If you have assisted for her, then you know that what camera she uses is not her main concern. The assistants do everything for her while she gets what she wants from the subject and trips the shutter. Early in her career, she would scream in excitement when picking up her film at labs just because something was on there at all. Her skill is with people and with concepts, not with photography, per se. I do not say this to minimize her work, but to make the point: Why would I look at what equipment she uses and even think about caring or about changing what I do? I can understand why she would make the switch from Mamiya to Canon digital...but I think its much more an issue of her current shooting style and of staying current than it is an issue of any quality consideration. 35 and MF are not the same things, and never will be. 35 format will always be the punk-assed red-headed step child of photography...and I mean this in the most loving way possible. It is a lovely format, and I use it pretty much every day, but has always been a shortcut to using larger formats. Not a shortcut witout use and without reason, but a shortcut nonetheless. There is way more to it than megapixel specs. I would never consider any camera with the 35mm feel to be a replacement for medium format, regardless of how many megapixels. All the new sensor will do is let those who love using 35 go bigger and/or get better quality at the same size. It's an advancement for 35 users, not a replacement for MF users.
All of this is childs play anyhow. 8X10 is where it's at.
KPL
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JT,
What's with all the attitude and anger? Chill out man. Calling people "idiots" is both impolite and immature.
What are you so insecure about?
Most of us think Canon is a good company and makes a good product.
Feel Better?
Best,
Frank Poole