Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Camera Raw Q&A => Topic started by: texshooter on August 06, 2022, 12:46:23 pm
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Is there anything that Adobe Camera Raw can do that Lightroom Classic cannot?
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More like the other way around.
If on version parity, offhand, I can't think of anything ACR can do that LR can't other than how a raw can be hosted; ACR can host Bridge and Photoshop, LR uses it's DAM/Catalog.
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When using "Edit in" an external editor, LR allows only 4 ICC profiles to chose from (Prophoto RGB, AdobeRGB(1988), sRGB or Display P3), and the histogram is based on the internal working profile regardless of what you choose.
If you want to output files using any another profile, you have to export first, and still you can select only RGB profiles.
In ACR you can choose any ICC profile, and the histogram reflects the output in that profile (yes, it will show CMYK values for CMYK profiles). This can be a difference if you use profiles such as CMYK or the Joseph Holmes ones)
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When using "Edit in" an external editor, LR allows only 4 ICC profiles to chose from (Prophoto RGB, AdobeRGB(1988), sRGB or Display P3), and the histogram is based on the internal working profile regardless of what you choose.
When you use the Edit in Photoshop command in LR, ACR is doing all the raw rendering with the four profile options.
I'm not sure how any raw file can be processed otherwise from any 'external editor' since only LR and ACR understand the proprietary parametric raw edits. With non-raw files, well they are already in a rendered color space.
No limitations or a difference with ACR in reality.
In ACR you can choose any ICC profile, and the histogram reflects the output in that profile
Same in LR; just soft proof (type S key) and pick the profile you wish. The Histogram and numbers now reflect that profile.
No limitations or a difference with ACR in reality.
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Same in LR; just soft proof (type S key) and pick the profile you wish. The Histogram and numbers now reflect that profile.
No limitations or a difference with ACR in reality.
Please explain how to softproof to an CMYK profile in LR or export an image with an CYMK profile
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Please explain how to softproof to an CMYK profile in LR or export an image with an CYMK profile
There is no CMYK anything in the ACR engine that LR uses.
There were older versions of LR that did soft proof and convert to CMYK, they were removed (for good reason).
There is CMYK in Photoshop, however, which can convert to CMYK from ACR.
I have no idea why anyone would even think of doing this directly from raw data to CMYK and neither did the LR team (for good reason).
Hopefully, you'll note that in ACR, there is no CMYK numbers either but sure, soft proof. ;)
Edit In External editor doesn't limit any RGB conversions unless you apply a parametric edit in LR. You can open an RGB document in an RGB color space that isn't listed in the preferences so, if its in ColorMatch RGB and you simply ask to open in that external editor, LR simply hands of ColorMatch RGB. Unlike what you suggested, when using "Edit in" an external editor, LR allows any RGB profiles to be honored UNLESS you apply proprietary, parametric edits just like it would with raw.
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in ACR, there is no CMYK numbers either but sure, soft proof. ;)
See attached image
Now, try to open a raw file as a smart object in PS from LR with a profile different than Prophoto RGB, Adobe RGB(1988), sRGB or Display P3.
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Now, try to open a raw file as a smart object in PS from LR with a profile different than Prophoto RGB, Adobe RGB(1988), sRGB or Display P3.
There is CMYK in Photoshop, however, which can convert to CMYK from ACR.
I have no idea why anyone would even think of doing this directly from raw data to CMYK and neither did the LR team (for good reason).
There were older versions (https://www.lightroomqueen.com/community/threads/cmyk-colour-profiles.30473/) of LR that did soft proof and convert to CMYK, they were removed (for good reason).
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Is there anything that Adobe Camera Raw can do that Lightroom Classic cannot?
This was the original question. There is something that can be done in ACR that cannot be done in LR. Maybe it is wrong, or not useful.
I rest my case
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Is there anything that Adobe Camera Raw can do that Lightroom Classic cannot?
This was the original question. There is something that can be done in ACR that cannot be done in LR. Maybe it is wrong, or not useful.
I rest my case
Not much of a case; ACR can open a raw without having to import it into a catalog first.
One can host ACR and Bridge at the same time; can't do that in LR either. BFD.
Now, want to start a list of all the actually useful functionality LR provides ACR doesn't? It's far longer than the one's you and I have come up! There is lots that can be done in LR that cannot be done in ACR. But the OP didn't ask what he can't do in ACR he could do in LR.
I rest my case.
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I decided to join the herd and learn Lightroom. I'm sure it's come a long way since 2.0. I just wanted to make sure I won't be limited functionally with respect to smart objects, color spaces, interacting with Photoshop, speed of use, etc.
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For my use, the History panel in LR's Develop module is the one huge advantage over ACR. I still use ACR quite a bit, especially as a filter, but I find the lack of a history list there--to easily go back and forth between edit steps--to be a big disadvantage. I wish they would implement that in ACR.
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For my use, the History panel in LR's Develop module is the one huge advantage over ACR. I still use ACR quite a bit, especially as a filter, but I find the lack of a history list there--to easily go back and forth between edit steps--to be a big disadvantage. I wish they would implement that in ACR.
I believe (could be wrong) the history data is stored in the LR catalog, not metadata. If that’s the case, be difficult to implement in ACR
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I believe (could be wrong) the history data is stored in the LR catalog, not metadata. If that’s the case, be difficult to implement in ACR
You are correct on both. Ditto for Virtual copies and Proof copies; but tremendously useful for LR users that ACR can't provide.
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but tremendously useful for LR users that ACR can't provide.
A really huge advantage. Whenever I'm processing something in ACR, I feel like I have one hand tied behind my back.
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I'm liking Lightroom so far. I found this tutorial very informative.
https://www.creativelive.com/class/advanced-lightroom-workflow-jared-platt (https://www.creativelive.com/class/advanced-lightroom-workflow-jared-platt)
I'm still confused about one thing though.
Lightroom allows the editing of Smart Previews, which are tiny compressed DNGs, using all the tools in the Develop module (except for roundtripping to Photoshop). But my gut tells me this can't be possible without losing some edit accuracy/quality. How is it possible to edit highly compressed DNGs and still get the same quality results as editing uncompressed RAWs? I understand Lightroom is not editing pixels but rather building a set of instructions, but Lightroom relies on the data in the RAW or DNG file for the information upon which it builds those instructions. The less RAW data there is to work with, the lower the quality edits you end up with, is my guess. So how is it possible for Lightroom to edit Smart Preview without paying a price somehow?
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See: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/help/lightroom-smart-previews.html
Specifically this about Smart Previews and where they are useful:
Continue to work with your Smart Preview files even when the device containing your original photographs is disconnected. You can perform all edits that you would perform on the original file.
Once created, your Smart Preview files are always up to date. When your storage device is connected, any edits you make to the original file are applied instantly to the Smart Previews as well.
IOW, it's a preview. If you're not going to be going 'off line', you may not even need to consider them.
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Thanks, but those web articles simply reiterated what I already knew, namely that Lightroom allows the editing of compressed versions ("Smart Previews") of the original RAW files without having to be connected to the drive containing those original RAW files.
What I'm scratching my head over is how is it possible for Lightroom to do this without losing editing accuracy. The Smart Preview DNG is only 3% the size of the original RAW file out of the camera. Intuition tells me if I edit these itty-bitty DNGs, my edits must suffer someway somehow.
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They are just previews and the actual edits are then applied TO THE ORIGINAL data when you reconnect. Nothing lost.
Everything LR does (and ACR) is parametric editing. Instructions. The instructions can (and are) used when you render the original data. There should be no data loss.
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Here is a statement I read that confirms my suspicions all along.
"For accurate detail work like Sharpening and Noise Reduction, the 1:1 on a Smart Preview is not the same as the 1:1 on the original uncompressed file. You’ll have to perform these types of adjustments once you have the original file available again. "
So I will never edit off of Smart Previews. Only original RAWs for me.
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Here is a statement I read that confirms my suspicions all along.
"For accurate detail work like Sharpening and Noise Reduction, the 1:1 on a Smart Preview is not the same as the 1:1 on the original uncompressed file. You’ll have to perform these types of adjustments once you have the original file available again. "
No, again this has no effect on the original image data but it does have an effect on the previews AS you edit them.
Your suspicions are off.
Without Smart Previews, you can edit Sharpening and Noise Reduction without being at 1:1 or greater and you're editing blindly. Not recommended.
Smart Previews are previews.
Edits are edits (ideal or otherwise).
Edits ARE applied to the original data if you let it. As you should.
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View this all or fast forward to 9 minutes in:
The ULTIMATE GUIDE to Lightroom SMART PREVIEWS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyQjK20xhY8
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Jeff Schewe said in his tut Advanced Guide to Lightroom 5:
"The DNG in the Smart Preview knows from which file it came. What that means is that it knows it started life as a high resolution file and now has been downsampled. So if I set the sharpening on the low-resolution DNG, Lightroom will automatically interpolate correctly the radius and sharpening amount on your high-rez file."
This makes sense to me, so I conducted a test to confirm. I created a Smart Preview of the subject image and then disconnected my drive containing the original RAW. I then applied sharpening and noise reduction to the Smart Preview. Then I reconnected the drive. Lightroom recognized the drive and presumably applied its radius and sharpen amount interpolations to the the original file. But the actual sliders in the Detail panel did not move one bit. So I will assume the interpolation happened even though the sliders did not move. I will also assume that the interpolation that Schewe spoke of is mathematically perfect. So yes, editing Smart Preview DNGs is just as good as editing full-size RAWs.... I trust.
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So yes, editing Smart Preview DNGs is just as good as editing full-size RAWs.... I trust.
Yes. AGAIN, it is simply a PREVIEW. Hence the name. What makes it smart is that you can work offline and then on line, and end up as if you didn't work off line.
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Sorry to revive an old discussion, but I noticed the other day that in ACR one can use a curve with a mask, ie. local adjustment. that, to my knowledge, is not possible in LR.
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Sorry to revive an old discussion, but I noticed the other day that in ACR one can use a curve with a mask, ie. local adjustment. that, to my knowledge, is not possible in LR.
Not yet. Key is yet..... ;)
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Not yet. Key is yet..... ;)
Great news! Thanks!
OK, my next thing to look forward to is Adobe adding an AI-based noise reduction tick box in the enhance dialog box. :) But I digress.
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Great news! Thanks!
What news? ;)
OK, my next thing to look forward to is Adobe adding an AI-based noise reduction tick box in the enhance dialog box. :) But I digress.
No comment ;)
But keep in mind that Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom Classic are on processing engine parity so we can go back and forth between the two. Using Edit In Photoshop in LR actually calls Adobe Camera Raw to render, so there's another reason. The teams have different release schedules. So if you see a feature in one, you can pretty much safely bet, it will be in the other if the feature is processing the data.
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Not yet. Key is yet..... ;)
But it has been promised for months!!
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But it has been promised for months!!
For some, a promise kept. 🤫
Did anyone promise you when you're getting it? 🤔
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For some, a promise kept. 🤫
Did anyone promise you when you're getting it? 🤔
Quite unnecessary and beneath you, Andrew!
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Quite unnecessary and beneath you, Andrew!
I'll take that as a 'no' (no date promised) answer <g>.
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I'll take that as a 'no' (no date promised) answer <g>.
You constantly need to show your ‘bottom’, don’t you?
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You constantly need to show your ‘bottom’, don’t you?
I'm sorry if the facts have ruined your day.
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I'm sorry if the facts have ruined your day.
…and again…hard to keep your pants up, it seems! 😀
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…and again…hard to keep your pants up, it seems! 😀
Seems is the key above:
"The problem with assumptions is that we believe they are the truth." -Miguel Angel Ruiz
This is simple. You came into this post late, going OT about a promise that is months old. Fact: some of us (not you) have seen the promise provided.
Adobe nor anyone who has seen the promise fulfilled told you when you'd get the feature. As far as you know, it might be days or months away. You don't know. I do. I can't (I will not) tell you, neither will Adobe or anyone who signed an NDA.
I promise, it IS coming.
Now sit back like a good boy and wait. You really have no other options anyway!
I'm again sorry if these facts have ruined your day.
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Seems is the key above:
"The problem with assumptions is that we believe they are the truth." -Miguel Angel Ruiz
This is simple. You came into this post late, going OT about a promise that is months old. Fact: some of us (not you) have seen the promise provided.
Adobe nor anyone who has seen the promise fulfilled told you when you'd get the feature. As far as you know, it might be days or months away. You don't know. I do. I can't (I will not) tell you, neither will Adobe or anyone who signed an NDA.
I promise, it IS coming.
Now sit back like a good boy and wait. You really have no other options anyway!
I'm again sorry if these facts have ruined your day.
Much ado about nothing…as usual, it includes useless quotes. I did not ask for a date, nor did I expect it…..nor did I make a big deal about it, which you, again, seem to be making…..plus trying to improve your (useless) image by alluding to an NDA….who cares!!
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Much ado about nothing…as usual, it includes useless quotes. I did not ask for a date, nor did I expect it…..nor did I make a big deal about it, which you, again, seem to be making…..plus trying to improve your (useless) image by alluding to an NDA….who cares!!
Those that respect facts based on experience probably care.
Those that hijack posts with rants about a promise not made (by date), don't. Much ado about nothing…as usual.
I'm not suggesting anything. I'm telling you the facts which you can't process; fine.
Your OT rant:
But it has been promised for months!!
Quite unnecessary and beneath you, John!
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Those that respect facts based on experience probably care.
Those that hijack posts with rants about a promise not made (by date), don't. Much ado about nothing…as usual.
I'm not suggesting anything. I'm telling you the facts which you can't process; fine.
Your OT rant:Quite unnecessary and beneath you, John!
Nope…I get the last (probably next) word😀 (you are so predictable)
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Nope…I get the last (probably next) word😀 (you are so predictable)
I'll stick to the facts:
I promise you'll get the feature. Someday, by surprise, but not today.
You can get the last, incorrect, absurd word on that topic John.
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I'll stick to the facts:
I promise you'll get the feature. Someday, by surprise, but not today.
You can get the last, incorrect, absurd word on that topic John.
You can’t seem to read. I never made any allusions to it never coming. I made a statement that said it was taking months….disappointed, yes….ranting, no. There was never any need for you to comment on that, except to show off (your bottom, obviously).
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I promise you'll get the feature. Someday, by surprise, but not today.
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Andrew….of course it will come…Adobe committed to it…and did not commit a date, which I would never expect any good developer, or manager of, to do. That does not mean that someone cannot be disappointed in the length of time it is taking. But you just have fun poking at other posters to increase your image of yourself.
And, BTW…how can you ‘promise’ anything? Adobe committed it…that’s a promise. Yours is worthless
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Andrew….of course it will come…Adobe committed to it…
Sorry to revive an old discussion, but I noticed the other day that in ACR one can use a curve with a mask, ie. local adjustment.
And, BTW…how can you ‘promise’ anything?
For some, a promise kept. 🤫
Fact: some of us (not you) have seen the promise provided.
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😀 your silly attempt to avoid being quoted is significant….the content of the quote above is equivalent to the content of your comments….worthless!!
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😀 your silly attempt to avoid being quoted is significant….the content of the quote above is equivalent to the content of your comments….worthless!!
You can't seem to read. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_black)
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I can read what little you say….even when it is worthless 😀 …..and often meaningless…usually intended just to poke at other posts, not provide worthwhile info
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Good things come to those that wait!
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Good things come to those that wait!
Are you, gloatingly, preannouncing imminent availability or just confirming, what everyone knows, that it will come eventually?
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Are you, gloatingly, preannouncing imminent availability or just confirming, what everyone knows, that it will come eventually?
Patience old grasshopper.🤫
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Patience grasshopper.🤫
I have patience…and, as stated, faith that Adobe will deliver. That doesn’t change the truth in my original statement, which started this ‘tennis match’….” But it has been promised for months!!” 😀
BTW….that’s a really old movie and will be lost on many!!
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BTW….that’s a really old movie and will be lost on many!!
You would do well to communicate on what's lost on you; the timeframe around proposed promises.
Perhaps connecting those dots isn't difficult for others but I will let them speak for themselves.
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You would do well to communicate on what's lost on you; the timeframe around proposed promises.
Perhaps connecting those dots isn't difficult for others but I will let them speak for themselves.
Why don’t you let them speak? You seem to be the only one making a stink about an minor statement of fact.
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You seem to be the only one making a stink about an minor statement of fact.
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." --Mark Twain
For some, a promise kept. 🤫
Did anyone promise you when you're getting it? 🤔
Nope!!
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"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." --Mark Twain
Nope!!
I have not deviated from any facts, nor said Adobe would not keep their promise. You have this nasty habit of twisting statements to attack others and/or to improve your, false, importance.
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I have not deviated from any facts, nor said Adobe would not keep their promise. You have this nasty habit of twisting statements to attack others and/or to improve your, false, importance.
You are entitled to have an opinion not based on any facts provided by Adobe as outlined in my first reply to you on this subject and again minutes ago.
I am just letting you know that I find it stupid.
I unlike you will not speak for others!
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You are entitled to have an opinion not based on any facts provided by Adobe as outlined in my first reply to you on this subject and again minutes ago.
I am just letting you know that I find it stupid.
I unlike you will not speak for others!
Yet….you continue to speak for others…..
BTW….you first reply, in this thread….was not factual….(relative to the lack of local curves in LR)
More like the other way around.
If on version parity, offhand, I can't think of anything ACR can do that LR can't other than how a raw can be hosted; ACR can host Bridge and Photoshop, LR uses it's DAM/Catalog.
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Both of you, just knock it off. ;D
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Along with the sunshine
There's gotta be a little rain sometime
I beg your pardon
I never promised you a rose garden
https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-add-tone-curve-to-masking-local-adjustment-tools/idi-p/12692503
https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/04/18/adobe-adds-ai-features-to-lightroom-for-denoise-masking-portraits?utm_medium=rss
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Along with the sunshine
There's gotta be a little rain sometime
I beg your pardon
I never promised you a rose garden
https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-ideas/p-add-tone-curve-to-masking-local-adjustment-tools/idi-p/12692503
https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/04/18/adobe-adds-ai-features-to-lightroom-for-denoise-masking-portraits?utm_medium=rss
Gotta have the last word, Andrew, strike again!,
Still….this has nothing to do with our ‘discussion’…while I never had a doubt it would happen….it still took a long time to get curves into masking….and you never could comprehend that is all I said…what a pita
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Gotta have the last word, Andrew, strike again!,
🤫
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Is there anything that Adobe Camera Raw can do that Lightroom Classic cannot?
In using the select object TOO.....one needn't reselect the tool for each portion of a mask ones "building" 0r otherwise editing...as is necessary win Lightrooma
Lightrooms brush tool doesn't require re selection ...for added Steps but its object tool does.
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Is there anything that Adobe Camera Raw can do that Lightroom Classic cannot?
If you have a compatible monitor and operating system, Adobe Camera Raw has had for the past year or so a High Dynamic Range Output feature preview that really shows off HDR images. Quite a step forward but so far only available in ACR.
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If you have a compatible monitor and operating system, Adobe Camera Raw has had for the past year or so a High Dynamic Range Output feature preview that really shows off HDR images. Quite a step forward but so far only available in ACR.
HDR as a Technology Preview for Adobe Camera Raw came about in April 2023:
https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/using/hdr-output.html
Whatever you find in Adobe Camera Raw isn't far behind in Lightroom Classic (enough said, stay tuned).
FWIW, there are quite a few potentials 'hurt me' buttons with HDR (which is for display only) but that's another topic.