Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: Michael Erlewine on July 01, 2021, 12:04:15 pm
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I will weigh in with my critique of these two new Z-mount macro lenses. First, I’m not sending them back, which is statement in itself. And second, it should be understood that I am only giving my two cents as to how they relate to my work, which is usually close-up, but not macro, and focus stacked.
And I should add, I bought these for use outside with insects and shots that require (or benefit) from auto-focus. The Z 105 Macro is the deal, meaning it is the best (and most expensive) of the two. Also, I have a great many (scores) of macro-range lenses, so I am picky this late in the game. The Z 50mm Macro, I will use much less, but I will use it because of the added context possible of a wider lens. I am all about context, which is why I like close-up and not so much macro. Just sharing my parameters here.
The Z 105mm Macro
It’s good. Easily sharp enough. Able to do 1:1, not that I do much of that. The bokeh is better than I expected and very usable. In fact, the lens is all good with one glaring (for my work) exception, and that is the short focus throw.
Lenses like the CV-125 have like 360-degree throws and the Leical Elmarit-R 100 APO macro has twice this. This new Z105 Macro has way less, barely enough to be useful for my work. That is disappointing and, IMO, an oversight on Nikon’s part considering this is a macro lens. What were they thinking?
Well, they were not thinking about those of us who are stacking focus. Of course, I could put it on a focus rail, but I’m not likely to do that often, because I have many other lenses that are better that do not require a focus rail. With nimble fingering on the barrel, I can sqeak through a focus stack of many layers, but I am aware of the shortcomings of this lens for that.
So, that almost would have me sending the lens back, except I did not buy it to stack focus, as mentioned, but to shoot outside with auto-focus, with or without a tripod. In summary, the 105 Z Macro is a fine lens, with the one exception I mentioned, the short focus-throw.
Nikon Z 50mm Macro
I have less to say here. This is a good usable lens, sharp enough, corrected enough, bokeh OK, and also a short focus throw. This is a less expensive lens, yet still meaningful for my work because it has auto-focus and is a wider-angle lens than most other macros. So, I will use it, outside, for greater context.
And so, as mentioned, not sending either back, but relegating it for outdoor work and probably not used in the studio, unless I get lazy. I like both these lenses.
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I wonder whether you could set the camera to focus shift and use focus limiting on the lens? Maybe allowing focus limiting to be set on the camera would make things work better - something for a future Nikon firmware update perhaps?
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I wonder whether you could set the camera to focus shift and use focus limiting on the lens? Maybe allowing focus limiting to be set on the camera would make things work better - something for a future Nikon firmware update perhaps?
you could, but there is not substitute for a long focus throw, because if you stack rounded objects, you have to shorten the step to catch all the roundness. They need a longer focus throw.
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In any case the photos look gorgeous...
since it is focus by wire - focus throw could be extended or am i wrong?
Do i understand you don't ( want to) use auto-focusstacking?
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In any case the photos look gorgeous...
since it is focus by wire - focus throw could be extended or am i wrong?
Do i understand you don't ( want to) use auto-focusstacking?
Se my last comment to understand why a long focus throw works better than an even-stepped automatic stack.
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if you stack rounded objects, you have to shorten the step to catch all the roundness.
Are you sure that the minimum step achievable with automatic focus stacking (not necessarily with the in-camera utility) is not short enough?
since it is focus by wire - focus throw could be extended or am i wrong?
Even it this was possible (I'm not sure if this is user-configurable) the minimum step could not be shorter that what you can achieve with an external program
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Are you sure that the minimum step achievable with automatic focus stacking (not necessarily with the in-camera utility) is not short enough?
Even it this was possible (I'm not sure if this is user-configurable) the minimum step could not be shorter that what you can achieve with an external program
Jim Kasson is also of the opinion that "the minimum step size is too large for critical work."
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-focus-shift-shooting/ (https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-focus-shift-shooting/)
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Jim Kasson is also of the opinion that "the minimum step size is too large for critical work."
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-focus-shift-shooting/ (https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-focus-shift-shooting/)
Those of us who stack a lot, in my case for many years, find that we need to change the step size to accommodate different conditions, like round or elliptical shapes, foreground or background, etc. So I have a focus knob that has regular increments, and a knob within that for very fine steps. I go back and forth between the two. I am doing things like this, which sometimes take some fine stepping. .
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So I have a focus knob that has regular increments, and a knob within that for very fine steps. I go back and forth between the two.
Is this an accessory that you install on the lens, similar to the follow focus rigs used for cine/video?
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Is this an accessory that you install on the lens, similar to the follow focus rigs used for cine/video?
I am using a Cambo Actus Mini with an auxiliary double-knob with a regular large knob , inset with a smaller knob for finer increments.
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I am using a Cambo Actus Mini with an auxiliary double-knob with a regular large knob , inset with a smaller knob for finer increments.
Great, thanks!
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Jim Kasson is also of the opinion that "the minimum step size is too large for critical work."
https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-focus-shift-shooting/ (https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-z7-focus-shift-shooting/)
Thanks for the link, however it is not clear (not even for Jim Kasson) if the issue is related to the in-camera implementation or the minimum step achievable with the lens' focus motor.
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Thanks for the link, however it is not clear (not even for Jim Kasson) if the issue is related to the in-camera implementation or the minimum step achievable with the lens' focus motor.
My point is not about the minimum step, but the need for variable increments for different reasons.
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My point is not about the minimum step, but the need for variable increments for different reasons.
Hi, yes, I get that, and your images are wonderful. I was just trying to get an answer about the issue with the minimal step being too large in the Nikon cameras
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Hi, yes, I get that, and your images are wonderful. I was just trying to get an answer about the issue with the minimal step being too large in the Nikon cameras
I hear that, but like the old jazz tune with Les McCann & Eddie Harris "Compared To What?"
For any given smallest increment, there has to be cases where it is too big. It's relative, IMO.
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More testing with the Z 105 Macro on the Z7ii camera. In this note, I am just looking at focus stacking and how that 105 Macro works with the Z7ii’s internal focus-stacking ability. It seems to work well. Since I know of no way to figure out the total number in steps that will be needed, one has to guess. For example, I guessed, using the smallest increment of “1” that 100 images would be enough to capture a single flower from front to back. Yet, no, that did not work. It only captured perhaps ¾ of the flower. Setting the increment to 150 steps seems to do the job.
However, why couldn’t Nikon let us set the front edge of the image, the rear edge of the image, and the size of the step, and tell us the number of steps, or better yet just produce a picture given those parameters? It would not be rocket science. I would think a firmware update could handle that.
Putting that quibble aside, it seems like a step size of “1” (and enough layers) would be enough for almost anything I need, which for me means I can make use of this lens for stacking focus. Now, all that remains is to consider the IQ of the image.
So far, the IQ seem OK, perhaps better than that. I have to admit, I have been kind of holding my nose as to the capability of the internal focus stacking of the Nikon 7ii, but I’ll have to stop that. The system can produce good focus-stacked images.
Now what am I going to do with all the skill I have acquired doing this by hand all these years? Oh well. All I really care about are the end results, yet the process also deserves respect. However, I can adapt to any process that produces good results. And the internal focus stacking is way faster and less jiggly than doing it by hand, especially if one considers the changing light of the sun and shadows.
It is true that I have macro lenses that have better IQ and are better corrected, many of them, but all of these are manual lenses and would have to go on an automatic focus rail if I wanted to automate them. Of course, as a professional critic (music and film) by trade, I can’t help but be critical. I’m not happy with equipment, or more correct I’m happy, but could always be happier if we just tweaked this or that.
Here is a stacked image using the Nikon Z 105 Macro on the Nikon Zii.
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is the jpg compression messing with the front petal left edge and the underneath of the second petal (the one immediately left) or is that a lighting issue ?
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is the jpg compression messing with the front petal left edge and the underneath of the second petal (the one immediately left) or is that a lighting issue ?
there is back light behind the 2nd petal, and so on. This is just a trial photo, not meant to be a finished photo. A new lens and a new way (for me) of using it, internal stacking.
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I can't say that the Z 105 Macro is not sharp!
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I continue to be impressed by the Z 105 Macro, when stacked.
Here are couple taken today as my dahlias start to come into bloom. What's not to like?
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Very nice Michael!
The 105mm is another winner
Cheers,
Bernard
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I continue to be pleased with the Z 105mm Macro, this time doing close insect shots.
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Very nice!
Btw, I have finally decided to try mounting the mint Printing Nikkors 95mm and 105mm A I bought some time back.
I understand they have to be used at exactly 1:2/2:1 and 1:1 reproduction ratio to achieve their best performance.
I intend to shoot them using a PB4 macro bellow. I was wondering how you identify the required extension to reach the ideal reproduction ratio?
My current intention is to prepare a set of frames sized 24x36 mm and to focus the bellow until the point where the frame exactly fills the sensor.
Is there a smarter way?
Thanks.
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Very nice!
Btw, I have finally decided to try mounting the mint Printing Nikkors 95mm and 105mm A I bought some time back.
I understand they have to be used at exactly 1:2/2:1 and 1:1 reproduction ratio to achieve their best performance.
I intend to shoot them using a PB4 macro bellow. I was wondering how you identify the required extension to reach the ideal reproduction ratio?
My current intention is to prepare a set of frames sized 24x36 mm and to focus the bellow until the point where the frame exactly fills the sensor.
Is there a smarter way?
I don't really know. The PN 95 is the most forgiving and flexible, the PN 105 being less so, and the two PN 150 lenses (old and newer) are a world unto themselves.
I would follow the stats, but play around to get what you want. We don't always need the perfect spot for perfect sharpness. It is plenty sharp enough if we are in the ballpark.
I am still playing with the Z 105 Macro..... example here.
Thanks.
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My only question on this new lens, the Z 105 Macro is the “whites,” the very light. It seems the highs are slightly more easily blown out than I would like. I have to take more care to keep them in character.
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Thanks a lot! And beautiful image as usual!
Cheers,
Bernard
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More with the Nikon Z 105 Macro, this time with the Night Blooming Cereus.
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Thank you for posting this! I absolutely love your work and have been particularly awed by the results you draw from the APO EL 105mm/5.6. To my eye, that’s the closeup wildflower benchmark. The dimension and detail just has some magic that draws you in and makes you want to linger and contemplate nature - very peaceful and inspiring. Can you share some observations regarding the draw potential of Z 105mm/2.8 in comparison?
All of my flower closeup work will be in the field. The Z Micro seems a lot like an easy button and requires a much smaller investment. So, I’m curious regarding IQ and render trade offs versus the EL.
As an aside, I’ve been wondering if part of the reason there’s some intangible flower magic with the EL is because it not only corrects CA for the human visible spectrum but also spectra used by pollinators (UV and IR). After all, flowers evolved to attract bees, bats, moths, and some birds far more intensely than us. So, maybe this lens lets a hint of the biologically primary spectral floral dimension through to our eyes (in translation). Probably optical experts will find fault in this idea, but interesting to contemplate.
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Thank you for posting this! I absolutely love your work and have been particularly awed by the results you draw from the APO EL 105mm/5.6. To my eye, that’s the closeup wildflower benchmark. The dimension and detail just has some magic that draws you in and makes you want to linger and contemplate nature - very peaceful and inspiring. Can you share some observations regarding the draw potential of Z 105mm/2.8 in comparison?
All of my flower closeup work will be in the field. The Z Micro seems a lot like an easy button and requires a much smaller investment. So, I’m curious regarding IQ and render trade offs versus the EL.
As an aside, I’ve been wondering if part of the reason there’s some intangible flower magic with the EL is because it not only corrects CA for the human visible spectrum but also spectra used by pollinators (UV and IR). After all, flowers evolved to attract bees, bats, moths, and some birds far more intensely than us. So, maybe this lens lets a hint of the biologically primary spectral floral dimension through to our eyes (in translation). Probably optical experts will find fault in this idea, but interesting to contemplate.
The APO El Nikor 105mm/5.6 is the better lens, IMO. That being said, I find myself using the new Z 105mm Macro all the time, and often the built-in focus stacking feature. The APO El Nikor is the master lens, but I always use it on a Cambo Actus Mini system, with its rail and all of that. I would buy the Nikon Z 150 Macro if I were you and not worry about the difference. Of course, I like them both, yet just now I am enjoying the Z 105 Macro a great deal And it is autofocus and very useful.
This is a shot with the Nikkor Z 105 Macro.
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The APO El Nikor 105mm/5.6 is the better lens, IMO. That being said, I find myself using the new Z 105mm Macro all the time, and often the built-in focus stacking feature. The APO El Nikor is the master lens, but I always use it on a Cambo Actus Mini system, with its rail and all of that. I would buy the Nikon Z 150 Macro if I were you and not worry about the difference. Of course, I like them both, yet just now I am enjoying the Z 105 Macro a great deal And it is autofocus and very useful.
This is a shot with the Nikkor Z 105 Macro.
That is a great sample, thank you. Looks like you are taking to the new lens rather well! It does seem like the Micro lens is the better bet for my use cases. IQ is plenty good enough, rather stellar, and the lens on z7 makes things so simple and lightweight.
Ive been contemplating the Cambo Actus system as a means for migrating my Nikon and LUMIX bodies into view camera movements for landscape photography and as a closeup bellows. If I acquire that kit I will likely seek the EL 105. But frankly that may be a long time coming. Meanwhile I will start experiencing Florida’s prairie flowers through the new Micro lens once my backorder is delivered.
Do you know what the image circle of the EL 105/5.6 lens is? My understanding it was used to enlarge prints from up to 8x10 film.
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This is a shot with the Nikkor Z 105 Macro.
Superb!