Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => Street Showcase => Topic started by: OnlyNorth on May 08, 2021, 03:49:30 pm

Title: A full street
Post by: OnlyNorth on May 08, 2021, 03:49:30 pm
(Done with the phone)
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: kers on May 08, 2021, 04:11:58 pm
Looks like a submerged junkyard; very nice!
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on May 08, 2021, 07:41:39 pm
I think Russ would say that you need to get that phone fixed.

But I'll say that I find it a fascinating image.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on May 09, 2021, 08:15:56 am
What Russ would say is this:

It's patently obvious that nobody on LuLa has even the remotest idea what street photography is all about. It would make all sorts of sense for LuLa to drop the category "Street Showcase." It's nothing of the sort. Street photography is a genre defined by some of history's most competent and influential photographers, people like Andre Kertesz, Henri Cartier-Bresson, Robert Frank, Garry Winogrand, to name just four of many. The genre has to do with interactions between people and between people and their environment. It hasn't anything to do with the crap I've seen on here since I threw up my hands and dropped off.

The problem with keeping the category on LuLa is that it misleads those who haven't a clue about the genre and aren't willing to do the kind of research they need to do to learn about it. They think that if they're shooting a street, or something on a street, they're doing street photography. There's massive ignorance about the genre out there, and LuLa is contributing to it.  :o
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: rabanito on May 09, 2021, 12:15:02 pm
This is interesting
https://luminous-landscape.com/on-street-photography/
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on May 09, 2021, 06:28:31 pm
This is interesting
https://luminous-landscape.com/on-street-photography/
That was an excellent essay from the "old" LuLa. It's still an excellent essay, but I can't see any complete image on my PC screen unless I reduce the browser screen (ctrl-minus, several times) until the image fits the screen. And at that point the text of the article is too small to be readable.

Terrible web design -- unless the purpose is to treat text and images all as meaningless wallpaper.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on May 09, 2021, 07:51:31 pm
Somebody messed with the original, Eric. Here's a slightly different version. The text is the same but the pictures are different: http://www.russ-lewis.com/essays/OnStreetPhotography.pdf
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: KLaban on May 10, 2021, 06:23:20 am
Simply rename the "Street Showcase" to "On The Street".

Damn it, the problem is we could then get inundated with pics of those of ill repute.

(https://www.keithlaban.co.uk/Bordello.jpg)

You see the problem with categories, definitions and the anal retentive?

 ;)

Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on May 10, 2021, 10:27:00 am
You're right, Keith. It would never work.

Eric, I tried Rab's link again and found that if I start to scroll down through it, suddenly an interrupt screen pops up, offering you a chance to subscribe to LuLa or, of you're already a member, to sign in. Sign in. Then dump the interrupt and go back to the original link. Now you'll have the whole thing available. It wold be interesting to know what genius thought up something that stupid, but there you are.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on May 10, 2021, 10:50:07 am
Somebody messes with the original, Eric. Here's a slightly different version. The text is the same but the pictures are different: http://www.russ-lewis.com/essays/OnStreetPhotography.pdf
Yes, Russ, I've read and admired that essay as it appeared on the old LuLa, before the present team "improved" the web interface. It's good that it is available on your website, readably, and with good illustrations.

-Eric

P.S. Keith's suggestion, "On the Street," might be a suitable catch-all fix for the current misleading LuLa topic heading.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: KLaban on May 10, 2021, 12:51:04 pm


...P.S. Keith's suggestion, "On the Street," might be a suitable catch-all fix for the current misleading LuLa topic heading.

Eric, I'd encourage more contributors to post more images and worry less about meeting categorisations.

At the moment there is a 'Landscape Showcase' and a contested and controversial 'Street Showcase' and no natural home for all the rest. IMO images should be the lifeblood of a photography forum.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: OnlyNorth on May 11, 2021, 08:43:55 am
Being in a heavy traffic,in a heavy rainy day,this little devil drawn on my windshield by raindrops told me that in Random House of the English Language  "showcase" is 1.a glass case for the display and protection of articles in shops,museums,etc; 2.the setting,place,or vehicle displaying something in a trial basis;vt.3.to exhibit or display., in Webster's Dictionary "showcase" is 1.a glass close case for the displaying and protection of articles in shops,museums,etc; 2.an exhibit or display usually of an ideal or representative model of something; 3. the setting, place or vehicle for displayng something on a trial basis; vt.3. to exhibit or display. ,in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English "showcase" is a glass box containing objects for people to look at in a shop or an event or situation that is designed to show the good qualities of a person,organisation,product,etc.
So "street showcase" is no more than the name says.Your discussion was about a part of street showcase which is called "street photography".These discussions are not new and I am sure they will continue.
Thank You for these extensive comments
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: KLaban on May 11, 2021, 10:14:23 am
North, I believe contributors should feel free to choose whatever category they feel appropriate when posting images. Tight briefs rub me up the wrong way!

I like both of your images.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on May 11, 2021, 10:18:57 am
Interesting, Keith. Then you wouldn't have a problem with Only's latest going on Landscape Showcase? (Actually it probably would be more appropriate there than here.)
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: rabanito on May 11, 2021, 10:45:40 am
North, I believe contributors should feel free to choose whatever category they feel appropriate when posting images. Tight briefs rub me up the wrong way!

I like both of your images.

I agree, "What's in a name?" but I believe that there has to be at least some order. Even museums don't mix mummies with Rembrandts.
I wouldn't like to click on Landscapes and land in the Bear Pit 
Or the other way around, find Bearpitchy comments under Landscapes   ::)
Just MHO
I like both images too, BTW
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on May 11, 2021, 11:10:24 am
I like both images too, Rab, but it's clear they both belong in Landscape Showcase.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on May 11, 2021, 06:49:40 pm
Under User Critiques there is a thread for "Show us some Abstracts."
I might start a new thread over there called "Unclassified images."
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: John R on May 12, 2021, 07:58:33 pm
I really like both of these images. They are semi-abstract, of course. Or if you like, non-representational images. Lovely!

JR
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: OnlyNorth on May 24, 2021, 12:39:11 pm
I am afraid, by entering into this discussion,I moved away from my goal which is to take photos not to talk on photography.
However entire discussion was an interesting and usefull one,especially since the arguments, used for supporting the opinions, revealed a side of the character of the participants.
Of course,You know now, I consider, that in a"showcase" of the street,every topic has its place and all togather represent the street show and maybe opinions show.
Thank You.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on May 24, 2021, 03:02:58 pm
That’s very virtuous, Only: wanting to “take photos, not to talk on photography.” Only problem is that this isn’t “a ‘showcase’ of the street.” It’s a “Street Showcase,” a category that supposedly was intended to be a showcase for street photography, which is very different from photographs of streets.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe the intention from the start was to display pictures of streets. That’s essentially what it’s turned out to do. Unfortunately, it contributes to a gross misunderstanding of photography’s most significant genre.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: OnlyNorth on June 04, 2021, 06:11:37 am
It would be rude if I did not answer RSL.He did me a special honor leaning over my photos.He spent a lot of energy trying to convinced me that some photos do not belong to the ''street photography",although, I did not support this.In the same time, I feel guilty for not answering everyone but it would be a grueling English exercise.
So,about ''that's very virtuous...'' ,it can be easily be proven that in ten years,I have been here,the vast majority are made up of my shots and not discussions about photography.
As for the assumption that ''street showcase'' is not the same thing with ''showcase of a street'',I do not know the subtleties of this language,but, I think that my teacher would have sanctioned me if I had said that these two expressions are not equivalent.That does not mean I want to share the misunderstanding of the language with my teacher,it is only my fault.In fact I do not bother anyone with my photos,but,looking at Yours I am not sure You are following H-C Bresson,which does not upset me at all,I am really glad.
Thank You very much.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on June 04, 2021, 10:28:04 am
To learn the "subtleties," Only, Study the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Andre Kertesz, David Seymour (Chim), Robert Doisneau, Willy Ronis, Brassai, Walker Evans, Elliott Erwitt, Mark Riboud, Garry Winogrand, Helen Levitt and Robert Frank, to name a few of the people who defined street photography. If you pay close attention you'll learn what the badly named genre "street photography" really is about. It isn't what you think it is, and you'll learn the difference between a "Street Showcase," and a "showcase of a street."
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Chris Kern on June 05, 2021, 12:29:54 pm
Study the work of Henri Cartier-Bresson, Andre Kertesz, David Seymour (Chim), Robert Doisneau, Willy Ronis, Brassai, Walker Evans, Elliott Erwitt, Mark Riboud, Garry Winogrand, Helen Levitt and Robert Frank, to name a few of the people who defined street photography. If you pay close attention you'll learn what the badly named genre "street photography" really is about.

It's a very unfortunately deceptive name in that the genre really isn't about "streets" at all, but rather about a particular approach to making images, whatever the locale.  I tried my hand at offering a narrative definition (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=124883.msg1045220#msg1045220) in this forum a while back.

Quote
I think of street photographs as images of people (and perhaps animals or artifacts) interacting with their environment (regardless of the locale) in a way that evokes a narrative (which may vary with different viewers) rather than a literal statement of fact (i.e., "this is exactly and only what happened to be in front of the lens when the shutter was snapped").

In law, and in some other fields, there is the concept of a term of art: a word or phrase that has a non-literal meaning that is specific to the expertise of the practitioners.  "Street photography" doesn't need to depict subjects in a street, or even in an urban setting (although it typically involves some sort of public venue); the term refers to the characteristics of the activity captured by the photographer and the reaction the image provokes in the viewer.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on June 05, 2021, 03:06:56 pm
Exactly, Chris. "Term of art" pretty accurately describes how "street photography" is specific to the expertise of its practitioners. As you and I both have pointed out, it has absolutely nothing to do with streets. It has to do with interrelationships between people and between people and their environment. I've long suspected that the name arose from the fact that when Oskar Barnack's Leica first came out and made unposed pictures of people possible both film and lenses were slow enough that you almost had to be on the street to pull it off. It's easy for people to become confused about the photographic genre "street photography" because you actually have to study the work of the people who defined the genre in order to understand what it is, and that takes work.

My beef with the term "Street Showcase" on LuLa is the extent to which it adds to the confusion. I keep coming back to this picture because it illustrates exactly what street photography is about. There's nothing there except the expressions on the principals' faces and the language of their bodies. The result is a kind of ambiguity that forces you, the viewer, to decide what the picture "means." That's what makes street photography powerful.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Chris Kern on June 06, 2021, 08:56:00 am
I keep coming back to this picture because it illustrates exactly what street photography is about. There's nothing there except the expressions on the principals' faces and the language of their bodies. The result is a kind of ambiguity that forces you, the viewer, to decide what the picture "means." That's what makes street photography powerful.

Yes, I think ambiguity is often the key to "street" photography.  A picture of people interacting with each other or their environment can be visually compelling, but if it's obvious exactly what is happening, it might more appropriately be called documentary photography.  For me, the best street photographs make you wonder, "what exactly is going on here?"  They draw the viewer in to try to solve the puzzle of what precisely the image is intended to depict.  Of course, what prompted the photographer to snap the shutter and the viewer's concept of the narrative don't need to match.  Actually, it's often better if they don't.

In my experience, serendipity is almost always involved in making a street photograph; that's what makes the genre so challenging.  By chance, you wind up in the right place at the right time and recognize that it's the right place and the right time so you can position the camera and capture what you are seeing in the instant while it lasts.  I don't know what drew my eye to the mirrors in the scene below, but without them it would be a documentary photograph of an artisan looking at his cellphone.


(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50204394947_dac2084113_c_d.jpg)
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on June 06, 2021, 10:07:56 am
Right, Chris. But I'll go further and say that serendipity is ALWAYS primary in street photography. The expressions, the situation, usually last for a couple seconds at most. If your camera isn't in your hand and at your face when the "decisive moment" occurs, you're out of luck. That's why HCB made his famous comment about "looking is everything." By the way, the picture you posted is the first real street shot I've seen on here in a long time. The ambiguity is priceless.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on June 06, 2021, 11:29:43 am
+1.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: OnlyNorth on September 11, 2021, 02:29:44 pm
I continue to post here what I think fits into my concept of "Street Showcase",..' until the administrators of  this site will tell that the meaning is "street photography".
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Chris Kern on September 11, 2021, 03:05:47 pm
I continue to post here what I think fits into my concept of "Street Showcase",..' until the administrators of  this site will tell that the meaning is "street photography".

Of course.  The more the merrier.

I enjoy the discussions of the origins and meaning of the genre (and its inapposite name), but an interesting image is still an interesting image, whether I or anyone else considers it to be genuine "street photography."
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on September 11, 2021, 03:22:20 pm
I agree, Chris. Let's see the photographs. Unfortunately I fail to see the difference between the titles "Street Showcase" and "Street Photography," considering that this is a photography site. But what the hell? My main concern is that with the genre's misleading name more and more people will become confused about what street photography is. You can't really come up with a written definition of "street photography" any more than you can come up with a written definition of "landscape photography." You have to look at the work of the people who defined the genre, and most people with a camera or a cell phone don't bother to do that. They think that if it's on the street, it's street photography. There's even at least one book that makes that mistake: The World Atlas of Street Photography.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on September 11, 2021, 03:39:21 pm
Maybe we should throw out all the old genre labels and start fresh with two new ones. I propose "Other Photography" and "Not Other Photography."    8)
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Chris Kern on September 11, 2021, 04:22:35 pm
I propose "Other Photography" and "Not Other Photography."

That's an inspired taxonomy.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on September 11, 2021, 10:02:42 pm
Thank you Chris.

Or perhaps: "Genre #1" and "Not Genre #1."

Or even simply "Genre" and "Not Genre."
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: degrub on September 11, 2021, 10:23:35 pm
“to be or not to be. That is the question….”
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: OnlyNorth on September 21, 2021, 02:03:16 pm
Throughtout of his life,any Great Inquisitor thought he was a specialist in taxonomy. And that is not bad at all for his psyche.
Title: Re: A full street
Post by: RSL on September 21, 2021, 03:41:27 pm
The street photography genre isn't defined by similarity, Only. Anything but.