Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: Dinarius on October 21, 2020, 08:39:11 am
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Just received my email with the usual 20% off pre-order offer.
Unless I'm going blind there is, as usual, no try-before-you-buy option (unless you're a beta-tester; used to be but gave up).
Worse, and also as per usual, there is no new features list. So, you buy unseen?
Am I going blind?
I skipped version 11 because the features, as I recall, simply weren't worth bothering with for me - the ability to add notes onto images, for example, as I recall.
Maybe I am going blind and the new features are on the website, or have been leaked.
But, if not, I'm not a fan of this approach.
That said, if it's half as good as last year, I'll upgrade and probably try and find a discount code!
And, yes, I am open to receiving direct messages from anyone with what the improvements are. We can all be devious! 8)
Thanks.
D.
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Got the email too.
Upgrade price for the UK is listed as £159 (offering 20% off). From memory, this seems much higher than version 20 last year and version 20 was a big jump up in cost also from all previous version upgrades. :o
I'm perfectly fine with paying good money for software as good as Capture One but now we are on this yearly upgrade cycle with C1, features other than camera support are none existant until the next major version which is a big dissapointment. Capture One 20 was a great release but correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of anthing added to it over the last twelve months that wasn't there at release. It seems Adobe and C1 have flip flopped in this regard as LR and PS get feature updates every few months now and for a chunk less money.
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Yes, it is more expensive than last year. €154 for me with 20% off that. (By the way, I'm working off this (https://www.captureone.com/en/account/upgrade) link. I'm surprised the Sterling price is higher. But, maybe I'm reading it wrong.)
I think it was €130 less 20% last year. So, if I'm right, that's a big increase in % terms, and I'd like to know what I'm buying in advance.
What equivalent product would we buy sight-unseen?
D.
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Checked again and it's £159 to upgrade including VAT.
Can't be without C1 so upgrading is a given but there are some LR features I'd like adding to C1 rather than all these UI changes that we seem to be getting more of.
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but correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of anthing added to it over the last twelve months that wasn't there at release.
Multiple heal and clone points on a single layer instead of one point per layer :-)
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Be careful about the purchase. I purchased it and somehow it has deactivated my version 20 C1P on the server with activate disabled. So it does something to the old activation code for C1P v 20. The specific error code is that the old activation code has been "deactivated". The new one does not work (as presumably it is for v21 that currently does not exist). Hopefully tech support will help in the next few days...
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Got the email too.
Upgrade price for the UK is listed as £159 (offering 20% off). From memory, this seems much higher than version 20 last year and version 20 was a big jump up in cost also from all previous version upgrades. :o
I'm perfectly fine with paying good money for software as good as Capture One but now we are on this yearly upgrade cycle with C1, features other than camera support are none existant until the next major version which is a big dissapointment. Capture One 20 was a great release but correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of anthing added to it over the last twelve months that wasn't there at release. It seems Adobe and C1 have flip flopped in this regard as LR and PS get feature updates every few months now and for a chunk less money.
You're forgetting 20.1 that added Healing Brush, Cloning Brush, Before and After Slider, Redesigned Brushes, Lightroom Importer Improvement, Nikon Colour Profiles
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You're forgetting 20.1 that added Healing Brush, Cloning Brush, Before and After Slider, Redesigned Brushes, Lightroom Importer Improvement, Nikon Colour Profiles
Agreed. The upgrade to 20 was a no-brainer.
D.
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Be careful about the purchase. I purchased it and somehow it has deactivated my version 20 C1P on the server with activate disabled. So it does something to the old activation code for C1P v 20. The specific error code is that the old activation code has been "deactivated". The new one does not work (as presumably it is for v21 that currently does not exist). Hopefully tech support will help in the next few days...
Every time they release a new version people run into the surprise that their old license key is deactivated and they need to use their new key to activate the old version again. I found it odd the first time I hit it.
It's not good if that doesn't work and you end up locked out of the product. That sucks. If that is a common occurrence support is going to get a lot of calls :-)
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Unless I'm going blind there is, as usual, no try-before-you-buy option (unless you're a beta-tester; used to be but gave up).
Worse, and also as per usual, there is no new features list. So, you buy unseen?
They did this last time too with the upgrade to 20. At the time they did not clarify that this was not the only offer that we would get. I found that odd too. At least this time we have some history. The upgrade to 20 was also pre announced with a 20% discount too. After 20 was released anyone with 12 still had the option to upgrade at a reduced cost and they go to see the feature list and try before they bought too. I doubt that this will be different.
Just wait until 21 is released so you can read the feature list and download a trial.
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You're forgetting 20.1 that added Healing Brush, Cloning Brush, Before and After Slider, Redesigned Brushes, Lightroom Importer Improvement, Nikon Colour Profiles
I am glad to know you are reading this forum. I enjoy your u tube seminar and they are very helpful. But I run into trouble from time to time and the problems have not been solved by your tech support because of the communication drop. I hope you will use your influences to improve this. I strongly believe this support business will make CP1 the best software as we get absolutely no support from your number one competitor.
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You're forgetting 20.1 that added Healing Brush, Cloning Brush, Before and After Slider, Redesigned Brushes, Lightroom Importer Improvement, Nikon Colour Profiles
Hi David please don’t take my comments here as a C1 hater as I’m far from it and I do feel C1 20 is a fine piece of software. You are right about features being added after initial release and I’d forgotten about the slight disappointment when opting to upgrade to ‘VERSION 20’ rather than just plain old version 13.0 at an early discount and the main features were improvements to existing tools in the HDR, crop and noise tools. 13.1 was the update that made it worth while and made me glad I still love using capture one since 1998.
I’m not rubbishing C1 as I feel it’s the best out there but I do dislike this yearly upgrade with the option of early adopters discount without knowing what’s new then only delivering mediocre features. I understand all the hard work that goes into the continued development of C1 but why not just release when features are ready that impress like with the amazing clone tool and the before after tools etc that came in 13.1.
I’d love for Version 21 to add some “WOW!” feature from the off - maybe like internal panorama stitching - that would be amazing or even HDR merging features. However, from experience over the last few years I feel the feature list will read something like improved clarity tool and updated UI and user experience.
Please, (even though I know you can’t) tell us there is something more.
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I installed C1P21 and then made copies of a few of my C1P20 catalogs and put them in a separate folder. v21 converts the catalogues to v21 catalogues the first time that I opened them.This allows my to tryout the new version without a chance of damaging my main catalogues permanently.
I have found v21 to be very stable. The new features are nice. It does seem a bit snappier too. The beta version of v21 is supposed to expire on 10/29, so my guess is that it will be officially released around that date.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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I’m currently on version 20 - win7 and have zero interest moving to Win10. Big question to you guys: will C1 version 21 still support Win7?. Any insights here? David?
Thank you!
Cheers,
Jaap.
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I am glad to know you are reading this forum. I enjoy your u tube seminar and they are very helpful. But I run into trouble from time to time and the problems have not been solved by your tech support because of the communication drop. I hope you will use your influences to improve this. I strongly believe this support business will make CP1 the best software as we get absolutely no support from your number one competitor.
Hi Takeda,
Thank you for the nice comments! I don't het a great deal of time to check in on forums (there are so many!) but I do pass by from time to time.
Sorry to hear you have not had a good experience. It is being monitored closely and I would suggest to anyone if you are not satisfied with an answer to respond back and ask for clarification.
David
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I’m currently on version 20 - win7 and have zero interest moving to Win10. Big question to you guys: will C1 version 21 still support Win7?. Any insights here? David?
Thank you!
Cheers,
Jaap.
Whilst many people are still using Windows 7, I'd personally consider an upgrade, purely because Microsoft ended support almost a year ago now. So security updates will be absent.
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Hi David,
Thanks for your reply and for being concerned about my securities in life 😁.
It would be very beneficial if C1 also provides system requirements along with the planned new software release.
Can you please share your insights whether or not the next C1 release will actually install on a Win7 64 bit PC? (Luminar’s AI will not, hence my concern).
Not knowing this currently keeps me away from pre-purchasing the next upgrade.
Thank you!
Cheers,
Jaap.
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Hi Takeda,
Thank you for the nice comments! I don't het a great deal of time to check in on forums (there are so many!) but I do pass by from time to time.
Sorry to hear you have not had a good experience. It is being monitored closely and I would suggest to anyone if you are not satisfied with an answer to respond back and ask for clarification.
David
Hi, David,
Again I am encouraged to know I am getting some attention from key person. I really like CP20 and love to keep using it. Look forward to the release of 21 and subsequent webinar by you.
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While I'm a log time customer of Capture 1 and like it a lot, I don't "get" the upgrade strategy.
Buying blind is not kind to the existing customers.
A question : Is it possible to combine an older pro version with a newer camera brand specific one?
I've seen that upgrade for the pro is more expensive than a new camera brand specific one, which covers 99% of my images.
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Buying blind is not kind to the existing customers.
but at the same time everybody can get a beta version from C1 the company - their "beta" program is not some exclusive club... just enroll and see what will be in
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I switched to the subscription model with version 20, so I'm looking forward to the version 21 upgrade.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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but at the same time everybody can get a beta version from C1 the company - their "beta" program is not some exclusive club... just enroll and see what will be in
Then I would need to use a computer that hasn't C1 on it. It's been a long time since I had a decent "beta" copputer ready.
BTW. It makes it even more strange. It's far from a secret for the competitors from capture one.
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Then I would need to use a computer that hasn't C1 on it.
You can run them both on the same machine, just not at the same time and obviously not on the same sessions/catalogs (which should all be backed up, of course).
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You can run them both on the same machine, just not at the same time and obviously not on the same sessions/catalogs (which should all be backed up, of course).
It's beta software, I don't risk that on a production machine. The error could be the running together part ;-)
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I'm perfectly fine with paying good money for software as good as Capture One but now we are on this yearly upgrade cycle with C1, features other than camera support are none existant until the next major version which is a big dissapointment. Capture One 20 was a great release but correct me if I'm wrong but I can't think of anthing added to it over the last twelve months that wasn't there at release. It seems Adobe and C1 have flip flopped in this regard as LR and PS get feature updates every few months now and for a chunk less money.
But you don't need to buy every update, right? You can skip a year?
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But you don't need to buy every update, right? You can skip a year?
Yes, you can skip a year. I skipped 11.
But, if 21 has a killer app, then I will upgrade.
D.
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I’d love for Version 21 to add some “WOW!” feature from the off - maybe like internal panorama stitching - that would be amazing or even HDR merging features. However, from experience over the last few years I feel the feature list will read something like improved clarity tool and updated UI and user experience.
This is what makes David's job hard - I don't care at all about the features you mention, but I do hope for some good UI improvements so I can edit quicker and use the tools better (along the lines of Phil Penman's workflow https://youtu.be/VD-Tugz_CSo :-)
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Check out Affinity Photo for panorama stitching. It's cheap, no subscription and works very well to replace Photoshop with C1P.
Regards,
Bud James
Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
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There is a "sneak peak" on Tuesday so you can judge whether it's worth the upgrade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grUFFB84NkU&feature=youtu.be&__s=b6r627f0jt7fk85d6vo6
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Is CO21 supported on Rosetta for M1 Apple machines? Any plan to go native?
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There is a "sneak peak" on Tuesday so you can judge whether it's worth the upgrade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grUFFB84NkU&feature=youtu.be&__s=b6r627f0jt7fk85d6vo6
Thanks, very good to watch.
Very nice info about version 21.
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Very nice info about version 21.
Any compelling new features promised ?
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Any compelling new features promised ?
for me yes.
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But you don't need to buy every update, right? You can skip a year?
Already paid my upgrade fee for Version 21.
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Keyboard shortcuts for exposure, white balance, etc were covered as was update to pro conversions for many popular cameras. There was a lot that was not covered which you will easily see if you download the trial.
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I just don't see it that way at all.
I rarely write on forums, I don't like the bish bash etc... however...
C1 with this release and their strategy behind it is worrysome. For example, when v.20 came out, I upgraded as I have moved mostly away from Adobe and the improvements with skin tools alone was worth it (to me). If you shoot landscapes.... maybe not. So i get that some things are more important than others etc.
C1 shooters tend to be at the higher end of photography, we don't shoot in a 'fire and forget' way, we don't need to select several badly exposed images to speed correct, its not a feature I think many will want or use... Same as facial recognition is useless to me, landscapers, still lifers, interior shooters, architectural shooters, but if is probably a timesaver for the modern day wedding/social shooter (who 'probably' shoots way to many images on a job if we are all being honest), but I get that to a small percentage its great.
But here's the rub, the big hype, the buy early... its like the guy on their Youtube comments wrote.... if you are a big band releasing a heavily promoted new album, do you open with such a weak feature that your core users won't identify with...?
Makes the rest of the album seem weak before its even out there....
Also... the reality of 2020 is that the very market this feature is aimed at, (speed editing) for shooters who have shot a lot and need to cull things or adjust things quickly before culling have no money... How many of them have actually shot any weddings or events since the release of version 20 (May 2020).?
So that's money paid for version 20 with very good new improvements and features. Then no money it at all because of covid, no government assistance for freelancers. The Capture One do this weird hype with a weak first feature offer...?
Its actually quite bad PR, as a company C1 will have been hit by a drop in camera sales and possibly software sales, but they get their subscriptions, not many have cancelled those. I upgraded to v.20 in May because i used the downtime to do more work in front of a screen.
Again referencing the guy on YT could you see Mercedes doing this sort of punt.... 'Its a new car, expensive, better, buy now and save... but we are not telling you much if anything about it.... yet... but give us yer cash..'
I am as many users are, very happy with v.20 and I'm so glad to be away from Adobe but who makes these calls at HQ...? Just say, gere's the new features, we think you will love them, we listen to you, here you go and as an existing user, during a tough year, have a discount...
Was it that difficult...?
S
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Capture One 20 was released in December 2019. We need to understand that the development aims for v21 were probably very well advanced and unchangeable before the virus crisis started and there may have been delays in development since then too that would prevent much deviation from the plan (although this release is exactly on their usual schedule).
I'd guess that import improvements and working speed have been on the request list for years and 21's feature set couldn't be changed much to react to a medical crisis.
Sadly for me most of these 'improvements' aren't compelling for me.
The increase in upgrade cost just at a time when so many pros are having a tough time could have been changed though. I'm sure Phase One are suffering too, but get the upgrade price wrong and many of us simply won't bother upgrading just for the one or two minor features we'd like.
It was interesting and good to watch Affinity offer their software at half price during the first lockdown period, along with regular webinars on their use. I'll bet that encouraged a lot of users to buy into their products and such a helpful attitude will encourage new users to stay loyal to them. Maybe something Phase One should have copied.
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Agree about the league times, confused about the Dec 19 release
https://www.dpreview.com/news/9758471894/capture-one-teases-upcoming-capture-one-20-update-including-new-heal-and-clone-brushes
Your point regarding Affinity is well put, the photography I do doesn't use much from PS and I've been a very happy Affinity user for 18 months now..
But what concerned me was the Capture One PR vehicle... it staggers me that after putting so much work on their software to make it much easier for people to move from LR... which is to still be applauded, they make these gaffs...
Like many football (soccer) fanis in the UK (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/19/newcastle-fans-boycott-pay-per-view-and-donate-fees-to-local-food-bank), I've decided to use the money to help feed people this Christmas
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C1 with this release and their strategy behind it is worrysome. For example, when v.20 came out...
From my memory, they offered the same deal last year for v20: pre-order for a discount or wait for the full announcement if you don't want to gamble.
Was it that difficult...?
No - same as every year.
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The faster editing is a very important feature for me. I have extra hardware (knobs and buttons) to assist in editing, but this is not ideal for on the road.
Speed is important for me.
I'm also waiting to see the new -better- profiles in action.
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Agree about the league times, confused about the Dec 19 release
https://www.dpreview.com/news/9758471894/capture-one-teases-upcoming-capture-one-20-update-including-new-heal-and-clone-brushes
Your point regarding Affinity is well put, the photography I do doesn't use much from PS and I've been a very happy Affinity user for 18 months now..
But what concerned me was the Capture One PR vehicle... it staggers me that after putting so much work on their software to make it much easier for people to move from LR... which is to still be applauded, they make these gaffs...
Like many football (soccer) fanis in the UK (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/19/newcastle-fans-boycott-pay-per-view-and-donate-fees-to-local-food-bank), I've decided to use the money to help feed people this Christmas
For what it's worth, C1 20 was released in December 2019 with some set of functionality I've since forgotten - I think the new basic color editor and a few other things. They released a lot of additional functionality later and that's what the DPReview article is talking about (healing brush, etc).
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I’m not a wedding shooter or other who needs “speed” but for me it’s a big plus to be able to do a lot of my work full screen without tool menus obscuring the view or distracting me. Of course others see things differently.
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I’m not a wedding shooter or other who needs “speed” but for me it’s a big plus to be able to do a lot of my work full screen without tool menus obscuring the view or distracting me. Of course others see things differently.
I think you are right. It's going to seem very antiquated to move your cursor over to a menu panel, click on a slider and pull it left or right. The scroll wheel, if supported helps, but this looks like it will become a standard. Who's going to go back to the old ways after they have experienced this?
An obvious development when you think about it after you see it, but that's always the case :-)
Expect most of the other software apps to follow with their version, "Fast Edits", "Agile Edits", "Accelerated Edits", "Swift Edits", "Rapid Edits", "Quick Edits", "Brisk Edits", "Edit with Alacrity".
Did I get them all, any others?
Ian
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Who's going to go back to the old ways after they have experienced this?
It's not a feature I like. I prefer to see the whole image with nothing at all in the way, not even a cursor, so separate boxes with sliders works for me.
There's also a way to go with refinement on these features as they're often pretty coarse in adjustments.
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The faster editing is a very important feature for me. I have extra hardware (knobs and buttons) to assist in editing, but this is not ideal for on the road.
Speed is important for me.
I'm also waiting to see the new -better- profiles in action.
+1
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For what it's worth, C1 20 was released in December 2019 with some set of functionality I've since forgotten - I think the new basic color editor and a few other things. They released a lot of additional functionality later and that's what the DPReview article is talking about (healing brush, etc).
This is my view too. The V20 upgrade was pretty underwhelming at release, but there were significant upgrades since then. I regard the upgrade fee as buying 12 months of updates, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt for V21. If that doesn't prove to be the case again over the next 12, I will look at the V22 upgrade more critically.
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This is what I love about this forum, all really good points of view and just by reading them it makes me reassess and review my initial points.
Thankyou.
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Hopefully, when I upgrade to Capture One 21, it will - during the installation process - request (again) full permission for accessing the Mac OS, RAM, drives, etc. Saying YES to these various permissions must be mandatory for tethering a Nikon D850 to Capture One - something I've had no luck in achieving.
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Next feature preview live at 17:00 GMT, 18:00 CET, 12:00 EST.
That's in less than an hour, for those interested.
D.
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Next feature preview live at 17:00 GMT, 18:00 CET, 12:00 EST.
That's in less than an hour, for those interested.
D.
A massive hype for a dehaze tool - and I say that as a C1 fan who already paid for 21 !!
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A massive hype for a dehaze tool
Lightroom has had that for how long ? DXO has an excellent dehaze tool and you can buy that outright for the price of C21 upgrade.
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Lightroom has had that for how long ? DXO has an excellent dehaze tool and you can buy that outright for the price of C21 upgrade.
Yeah I bought DxO largely because of that. It has some great tools but somehow I can't get comfy with it though. C1 has an interface that suits the way I work - it feels "right", and now the "speed edit" improved that further (for me).
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Yeah I bought DxO largely because of that.
I nearly fell for that and the good new noise reduction, but other aspects stop me from putting the money down.
For me I still find CO's interface clunky and slow compared to LR, great colour editing certainly, but LR continues to win on being a 'one stop' productivity shop.
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A massive hype for a dehaze tool - and I say that as a C1 fan who already paid for 21 !!
Yup, wasted 30 minutes watching that, hoping beyond all hope that there was more than a single tool (which adobe has had for ages) to talk about.
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What are examples of functionality that people are looking for? Obviously they're not going to please everyone and I don't think (yet) they're trying to be LR II for people who don't like Adobe's subscriptions. That said, there are a fair number of LR people exploring C1 and are obviously wanting some of the comforts of home :)
As for whether to upgrade, for me, keeping my key software and hardware up to date is like car maintenance. It's already baked in to my yearly budget so I just do it. It's a drop in the bucket compared to most everything else. I also don't personally have a problem with software subscriptions.
Personally, I'm not looking for a one-stop shop. It's actually one of the numerous things I don't care for with LR, along with its (for me) speed, default rendering for my Nikon, Fuji and P1 files, module-based approach, hideous tethering, limited customizability and UI choices. For things like stacking or stitching, I prefer Helicon and PTGui as I feel they give me better results than one-stop-shop tools. I don't really do HDR but should I need to, Photopshop has worked great for me in the past and I've also used Photomatix Pro. Photoshop for pixel-based editing.
For C1, I want them to focus on improving noise reduction for when I need it, lens profiles, default rendering, diffraction correction, speed, better catalog performance for those who use them, etc. Continue improving color editing. Continue to improve layers. Continue to improve masking and brushing. I want an iOS/iPadOS version for easier tethering in the field and I want them to get going on an Apple silicon version. I'd like them to improve their plugin SDK and capability. It's pretty hideous to work with at present for those wanting to write a custom plugin. Those are things I can think of off the top of my head, in no particular order.
All of these things - the annoyances I find with LR and the things I do like and want continuous improvements on in C1 are simply personal preferences. Luckily there are plenty of choices in the market to find a tool that best suits how I wish to do things. Any tool can produce superb results in the right hands. This is a golden age of raw editors and photo editing in general. There's a choice for most tastes and budgets out there!
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You can add Affinity Photo to the list of programs that already has a dehaze tool. USD50 less 30% for Black Friday.
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I've just had a quick skim through the comments and just wanted to say thanks for the feedback.
I am glad that Speed edit is not just seen as speed, but just a more immersive way to edit.
I personally don't see the logic of NOT adding xxx feature just because another application has a similar feature. Otherwise progress would be somewhat stunted. ;)
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Hopefully, when I upgrade to Capture One 21, it will - during the installation process - request (again) full permission for accessing the Mac OS, RAM, drives, etc. Saying YES to these various permissions must be mandatory for tethering a Nikon D850 to Capture One - something I've had no luck in achieving.
Hey Doug,
It's an easy fix.
System Pref>Security and Privacy>Files and Folders.
Make sure Capture One has access to the items. Boxes should be checked.
You can also run a terminal command which will kick in the permission request.
Read this article top to bottom..
https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002727817-For-users-running-macOS-Catalina-tethering-updates-and-other-things-you-need-to-know
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You can add Affinity Photo to the list of programs that already has a dehaze tool. USD50 less 30% for Black Friday.
Affinity Photo works well as an external pixel editor with C1. Just remember that if you want to further edit the Tif that's returned to C1 from Affinity to use the "Open With" command rather than "Edit With" as that avoids generating a new Tif file, unless that's what you want to do :-)
Ian
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I've just had a quick skim through the comments and just wanted to say thanks for the feedback.
I am glad that Speed edit is not just seen as speed, but just a more immersive way to edit.
I personally don't see the logic of NOT adding xxx feature just because another application has a similar feature. Otherwise progress would be somewhat stunted. ;)
I wouldn't be to bothered by the Dehaze comments. DXO where the first people to introduce a Dehaze slider although they call it Clear View and everyone went meh! LR followed with their version (dehaze) and sliced bread had been reinvented :-) It just means the, "I can't switch to C1 because it hasn't got a Dehaze slider" comments are now invalid. :-)
C1's implementation does look a little different though as it appears to have more "creative" possibilities with the inclusion of the "Haze" colour picker, combined with the ability to apply locally. It will be interesting to experiment with if I upgrade.
Ian
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Black Friday deal is -30%.
So, even better for those who waited.
Having viewed both promo presentations, as with version 11, I think I'll skip this one.
D.
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Black Friday deal is -30%.
So, even better for those who waited.
Having viewed both promo presentations, as with version 11, I think I'll skip this one.
D.
The beauty of perpetual licence software, choice. If the upgrade offers something you need, happy to pay. If it doesn't, happy to save money Win-Win :-)
Ian
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I personally don't see the logic of NOT adding xxx feature just because another application has a similar feature. Otherwise progress would be somewhat stunted. ;)
I think the point of the comments was that you're making a big deal about a feature where C1 was last cab off the rank, not that you were copying something from other s/w. I didn't bother to watch the video, but your main marketing point is not that you've finally got one, but rather ...
C1's implementation does look a little different though as it appears to have more "creative" possibilities with the inclusion of the "Haze" colour picker, combined with the ability to apply locally.
Agreed. I haven't seen all the other dehaze tools, but this was new to me. The Affinity dehaze tool also has a couple of extra sliders, but not that one. Speaking of which ...
Affinity Photo works well as an external pixel editor with C1. Just remember that if you want to further edit the Tif that's returned to C1 from Affinity to use the "Open With" command rather than "Edit With" as that avoids generating a new Tif file, unless that's what you want to do :-)
Thanks for that tip. I don't generally use the roundtrip workflow, but I'll keep it in mind. Normally I do as much as I can on an image in C1, and then switch to a pixel editor if necessary.
This is a bit OT for this thread, but IMHO the Achilles' Heel of Affinity is file format interoperability. As soon as as you start making edits in layers, you have to save the image in its afphoto proprietary file format. Affinity claims that this format has advantages - that may be true - but interoperability isn't one of them, as no other program can read it, and Affinity seem resistant to enhancing interoperability. To be fair, Photoshop layered TIFFs and PSDs are also proprietary, but they're better understood, and Affinity can read them, up to a point. It can read PSDs fairly well, and TIFFs imperfectly.
This is OT because I assume you wouldn't send any layered file format back to C1 in a roundtrip workflow. You can export a flat TIFF from Affinity Photo, which I imagine would suit that workflow.
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Black Friday deal is -30%. So, even better for those who waited.
I got the Black Friday offer email as well. It looked like it only applied to styles, and when I went to the Capture One site I couldn't see any sign of a discount on the software. HOWEVER ... over on Fujirumors they were advertising a 30% off sale on everything C1 using a coupon code of BLACKFRIDAY30, and yes that works on the software.
David Grover, if you're reading this, I have to say, I was rather miffed that people who put their trust in Capture One and bought the upgrade fairly promptly sight unseen got a discount of 20% whereas those who waited for Black Friday got 30%. This is not a way of rewarding loyal customers. I know that Capture One has had occasional quick sales in the past, I first bought C1 by waiting for one of those sales, but this is different.
Let me tell you a story David. At the beginning of the pandemic earlier this year, Affinity had a 50% off sale on all their three Adobe-competing products. It ran for several months. In a masterstroke of bad timing, I bought all three just a day or two before the sale was announced. So I emailed them to plead my case, and guess what? They said sure, we expected this to happen, here's a 50% refund. That's how you build customer loyalty.
I won't fall for this again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, ...
Having viewed both promo presentations, as with version 11, I think I'll skip this one.
Years ago it was the case that you could skip one upgrade without cost penalty. I'm fairly sure that that ceased several years ago, and now the more versions you're jumping the more it costs. Does anyone know what it costs now to skip one upgrade, two upgrades, etc? I suspect that if you're going to want to upgrade at some stage (e.g. new camera), you may as well stay up-to-date. I'm certain that Capture One has the maths all worked out.
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David Grover, if you're reading this, I have to say, I was rather miffed that people who put their trust in Capture One and bought the upgrade fairly promptly sight unseen got a discount of 20% whereas those who waited for Black Friday got 30%. This is not a way of rewarding loyal customers. I know that Capture One has had occasional quick sales in the past, I first bought C1 by waiting for one of those sales, but this is different.
Let me tell you a story David. At the beginning of the pandemic earlier this year, Affinity had a 50% off sale on all their three Adobe-competing products. It ran for several months. In a masterstroke of bad timing, I bought all three just a day or two before the sale was announced. So I emailed them to plead my case, and guess what? They said sure, we expected this to happen, here's a 50% refund. That's how you build customer loyalty.
I won't fall for this again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, ...
This ^2
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Thanks for that tip. I don't generally use the roundtrip workflow, but I'll keep it in mind. Normally I do as much as I can on an image in C1, and then switch to a pixel editor if necessary.
This is a bit OT for this thread, but IMHO the Achilles' Heel of Affinity is file format interoperability. As soon as as you start making edits in layers, you have to save the image in its afphoto proprietary file format. Affinity claims that this format has advantages - that may be true - but interoperability isn't one of them, as no other program can read it, and Affinity seem resistant to enhancing interoperability.
A bit of background on Affinity file format to help understand why they went this route. I criticised Affinity for having it's own format when it first came out in 2016. Affinity were in it for the long game and when they had developed their full suite of Photo, Designer and Publisher the reason for their own format became clear.
In Affinity Publisher you can have a document with a photo or graphic embedded in the page and then decide you need to make some change to the graphic or photo. In every other app you need to fire up Affinity Photo or Designer, find and load the photo/graphic into Photo/Designer. Make your changes, save the Photo/Graphic to your hard drive. Go back into Publisher, find the Photo/graphic and replace the existing file in the document with the new file.
What happens with Affinity Publisher is that you simply press a button and the UI changes to either Designer or Photo, you make your changes and press the button to go back to the Publisher UI. This is a game changing way to work.
I would guess that given this complexity, third parties find it very difficult to understand and read the file format. Doesn't help with being able to see files in other applications but it isn't a case of Serif being awkward :-)
Ian
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This ^2
They did exactly the same last year, so with some research you can avoid this. Also true for most other software and plenty of posts about waiting for Black Friday on various forums, that's why people wait for Black Friday.
Everybody will do the same next year, so...
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I got the Black Friday offer email as well. It looked like it only applied to styles, and when I went to the Capture One site I couldn't see any sign of a discount on the software. HOWEVER ... over on Fujirumors they were advertising a 30% off sale on everything C1 using a coupon code of BLACKFRIDAY30, and yes that works on the software.
David Grover, if you're reading this, I have to say, I was rather miffed that people who put their trust in Capture One and bought the upgrade fairly promptly sight unseen got a discount of 20% whereas those who waited for Black Friday got 30%. This is not a way of rewarding loyal customers. I know that Capture One has had occasional quick sales in the past, I first bought C1 by waiting for one of those sales, but this is different.
Let me tell you a story David. At the beginning of the pandemic earlier this year, Affinity had a 50% off sale on all their three Adobe-competing products. It ran for several months. In a masterstroke of bad timing, I bought all three just a day or two before the sale was announced. So I emailed them to plead my case, and guess what? They said sure, we expected this to happen, here's a 50% refund. That's how you build customer loyalty.
I won't fall for this again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, ...
Years ago it was the case that you could skip one upgrade without cost penalty. I'm fairly sure that that ceased several years ago, and now the more versions you're jumping the more it costs. Does anyone know what it costs now to skip one upgrade, two upgrades, etc? I suspect that if you're going to want to upgrade at some stage (e.g. new camera), you may as well stay up-to-date. I'm certain that Capture One has the maths all worked out.
This ^ 2.
I created a support case for this and pleaded my case. Saying more or less what you stated here.Let's see how CO will respond.
cheers,
Remko
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I bought Media Pro Se and a month later they stopped selling it.
Not very nice either... no % off at all.
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This is a bit OT for this thread, but IMHO the Achilles' Heel of Affinity is file format interoperability. As soon as as you start making edits in layers, you have to save the image in its afphoto proprietary file format.
You do not have to save your file in the afphoto format. I save a file - with its layers - in the TIFF format. When you do that there is an option to save the affinity layers as well.
You probably know this; to save a file in AP in any other format than its propriety format, use the Export command.
cheers,
Remko
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I got the Black Friday offer email as well. It looked like it only applied to styles, and when I went to the Capture One site I couldn't see any sign of a discount on the software. HOWEVER ... over on Fujirumors they were advertising a 30% off sale on everything C1 using a coupon code of BLACKFRIDAY30, and yes that works on the software.
David Grover, if you're reading this, I have to say, I was rather miffed that people who put their trust in Capture One and bought the upgrade fairly promptly sight unseen got a discount of 20% whereas those who waited for Black Friday got 30%. This is not a way of rewarding loyal customers. I know that Capture One has had occasional quick sales in the past, I first bought C1 by waiting for one of those sales, but this is different.
Let me tell you a story David. At the beginning of the pandemic earlier this year, Affinity had a 50% off sale on all their three Adobe-competing products. It ran for several months. In a masterstroke of bad timing, I bought all three just a day or two before the sale was announced. So I emailed them to plead my case, and guess what? They said sure, we expected this to happen, here's a 50% refund. That's how you build customer loyalty.
I won't fall for this again. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, ...
Years ago it was the case that you could skip one upgrade without cost penalty. I'm fairly sure that that ceased several years ago, and now the more versions you're jumping the more it costs. Does anyone know what it costs now to skip one upgrade, two upgrades, etc? I suspect that if you're going to want to upgrade at some stage (e.g. new camera), you may as well stay up-to-date. I'm certain that Capture One has the maths all worked out.
When I skipped 11, there was no penalty the following year when I went straight from 10 to 12.
If this has changed and you can no longer skip a new release, I’d be interested in knowing.
In the greater scheme of things, this is no big money. But, the palaver around this year’s release hasn’t won them any new friends, if this thread isn’t any indication. Underwhelming.
D.
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I wanted to reply to the overall thread on the forthcoming version 21 and some of the opinions expressed concerning discounts.
First and foremost, I'm with you in regard to the unwelcomed and abysmal changes to Capture One Pro (C1PRO) in regard to their customer/tech support. Gone are when us PRO licence end users are guaranteed a reply from Tech Support within 1-2 business days depending on the day when support ticket was created. I do believe this is due to the increased users from amateurs, prosumers, and the "LR People."
As for the discounts, I immensely do not support what some of you have experienced. I remember earlier in the year, I even made a post about the 45% discount promotion to upgrade to version 20. I purposefully did not upgrade from 12 as my form of protest. I have my reasons. On Singles Day, they had a 20% off and with the recent 30% off for Black Friday.
I just feel that the current state of C1PRO is a "Hot Mess," just like the current COVID-19 pandemic everyone—and I mean everyone—is experiencing. Let's just all of us "suck it up" and endure that unless a Christmas Miracle occurs at the Phase One Headquarters in 27 days, this is our "New Normal" of how C1PRO as a separate software entity is going to be for 2021 and beyond.
I still wholeheartedly and professionally recommend C1PRO in a heartbeat. I used to upgrade on release day in prior versions going back to 3.7.8. That changed after the release of the underwhelming version 20 and the forthcoming version 21. I will upgrade halfway in the 2021 year and hoping to catch a sweet halfway discount for version 21 from version 12. If not, then I missed the boat and let's hope version 22 has core functionalities I simply can't refuse.
Maybe by then, they would include AI-driven and machine learning to include a "Annie Leibovitz" or "Norman Jean Roy" button. If that is the case, shut up and take my money Phase One!!!
I digress. Kidding aside.
Yes, all in all, version 21 (for me) is a lacklustre for my photography needs, but I will upgrade to it from version 12 anyway.
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... I criticised Affinity for having it's own format when it first came out in 2016. Affinity were in it for the long game and when they had developed their full suite of Photo, Designer and Publisher the reason for their own format became clear.
In Affinity Publisher you can have a document with a photo or graphic embedded in the page and then decide you need to make some change to the graphic or photo. In every other app you need to fire up Affinity Photo or Designer, find and load the photo/graphic into Photo/Designer. Make your changes, save the Photo/Graphic to your hard drive. Go back into Publisher, find the Photo/graphic and replace the existing file in the document with the new file.
What happens with Affinity Publisher is that you simply press a button and the UI changes to either Designer or Photo, you make your changes and press the button to go back to the Publisher UI. This is a game changing way to work.
I had read this before, but had forgotten the specifics. I knew there was a reason for their format. I knew they weren't just being bl**dy minded. However that wasn't my point. I wasn't criticizing them for creating their own format. My point was about interoperability, which is a wider issue:
I would guess that given this complexity, third parties find it very difficult to understand and read the file format. Doesn't help with being able to see files in other applications but it isn't a case of Serif being awkward :-)
I think it is actually, and I have the forum posts to back me up. I use a Win-only digital image database program called Imatch. In order for IMatch to index and manage afphoto files along with all the other image formats, the IMatch author needs some basic info about the file format. So he posted on the Affinity forum and asked, here (https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/31716-file-format-specification/). You can read the responses. Particularly this one (https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/31716-file-format-specification/&do=findComment&comment=153942). I call that being awkward.
Adobe could get away with this sort of behaviour, being the 1800kg gorilla in the room. But it makes no sense for the new kid on the block to try to lock its users into their own closed universe. For people starting out that might work, but if you want existing users with established worflows and existing image inventories to adopt your s/w, you have to enable them to fit it into their extising workflow, not to require them to ditch it all and start from scratch. These posts are old, but I don't see any signs of change.
Having had that rant, Remko's point partly mollifies me:
You do not have to save your file in the afphoto format. I save a file - with its layers - in the TIFF format. When you do that there is an option to save the affinity layers as well. ... use the Export command.
Thanks, I'm not sure I did know this. Either I forgot, or I missed that export option. Yes, that works. The export dialogs are not perfect, but even PS can open the file, although of course it doesn't show the layers. I wish it was a native save or save as option rather than export, but I guess they want to push you towards their own format.
So layered TIFFs from Affinity are like layered TIFFs from PS, other programs can read the flat file, but only the creating program can read the layers. Except that Affinity has a limited capacity to read PS layers, so in that sense it's ahead.
P.S. inspired by all this I have been playing some more, and am further mollified. (i) The afphoto file format seems to be very efficient at storing 16 bit images, unlike PS where the TIFF compression options are essentially useless for 16 bit. So that's a big tick for afphoto, despite my interoperability concerns. (ii) PS can read layers created by Affinity if the file is exported as PSD. So there's more interoperability than I thought. This is another reminder that PSD is a more useful file format than TIFF because it's better understood, despite being proprietary. Which is not what I long thought.
This is way OT so I'll stop, but I've learnt a lot from this exchange. Thanks.
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They did exactly the same last year, so with some research you can avoid this. Also true for most other software and plenty of posts about waiting for Black Friday on various forums, that's why people wait for Black Friday.
I went back and checked. From my records I'm fairly certain that in late 2019 the Pro V12 -> V20 upgrade price was USD153 (plus any applicable taxes), and the pre-order and Black Friday discounts were both 30%, giving a discount price of USD107.10. I encouraged a friend to buy the Fuji version on Black Friday, and he also got the 30%. The difference this year was that the pre-Black Friday discount was only 20%. And the upgrade price increased. Previous complaint (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136554.msg1198075#msg1198075) still applies.
I think Capture One is playing games with us - measuring the response to different pricing strategies.
I will upgrade halfway in the 2021 year and hoping to catch a sweet halfway discount for version 21 from version 12. If not, then I missed the boat and let's hope version 22 has core functionalities I simply can't refuse. ... Yes, all in all, version 21 (for me) is a lacklustre for my photography needs, but I will upgrade to it from version 12 anyway.
If you do, would you mind letting us know what the Pro V12 -> V21 upgrade price is before any discounts? This year for V20 -> V21 it was USD159, or USD 127.20 with 20% discount, USD111.30 with 30% discount for those who waited until Black Friday.
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Having voiced my concerns early on in this thread about the early adopters discount the story rings true. How the hell can any self respecting business offering existing loyal customers discounts for their early adoption (software unseen) then four weeks later offer a larger discount to every man and his dog on Black Friday for that same software AND with every new feature discussed in great depth on YouTube.
Is Capture One now run in a similar fashion to Adobe - money first, existing users last?
I’m sure feeling very taken for granted at the moment and will be the last time I upgrade C1 Pro at each new version as I have done since 2008.
Fantastic job team Capture One!
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When I skipped 11, there was no penalty the following year when I went straight from 10 to 12.
If this has changed and you can no longer skip a new release, I’d be interested in knowing.
D.
FYI, I have just checked my upgrade options and I can upgrade from C1 Pro 11 to C1 Pro 21 with Black Friday 30% discount for 146,30 EUR (I am in Europe).
Other info:
(1) I have the free Capture One for Phase One v20 license for my Phase One DB and will upgrade to C1 21 when upgrading my hardware in the near future.
(2) I have the C1 Pro 20 perpetual license that runs on my legacy Macs stuck on High Sierra for my Leaf Aptus and Canon raws. Will not upgrade to C1 Pro 21 because I assume it will not be supported on High Sierra. If upgrading now the price for upgrading from C1 Pro 20 to C1 Pro 21 with the Black Friday 30% discount is 118,30 EUR.
(3) I have the C1 Pro 11 perpetual license that runs on my legacy Macs stuck on High Sierra for my Leaf Aptus tethering as this is not supported from v12 onwards.
So, if you skipped v12 and v20 you can now upgrade to v21 for just 28,00 EUR more than those upgrading from the last version.
Also, if you wait until mid next year (i. e. June, July 2021) you can expect sales for up to 45% discount for upgrades (I know because I upgraded from v11 Pro to v20 Pro in July 2020).
So, if you like me need also a Pro license (and you have the free DB version) upgrading to perpetual license every other year 6 months after the new version release makes a lot of sense.
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So it was 'Black Friday 30% off' last chance.... today 'Cyber Monday 30% off' last chance...
Pretty rubbish really
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Adorama has C1 Pro (complete) for USD174.95, or 41% off, for Cyber Monday. That's not that much more than the upgrade. Probably less than the upgrade from versions earlier than V20. Those on V12 or earlier would be better off snapping this up.
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I went back and checked. From my records I'm fairly certain that in late 2019 the Pro V12 -> V20 upgrade price was USD153 (plus any applicable taxes), and the pre-order and Black Friday discounts were both 30%, giving a discount price of USD107.10. I encouraged a friend to buy the Fuji version on Black Friday, and he also got the 30%. The difference this year was that the pre-Black Friday discount was only 20%. And the upgrade price increased. Previous complaint (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=136554.msg1198075#msg1198075) still applies.
I skipped v12 and upgraded from 11 to 20. The retail upgrade price was $199. I waited until August and got a 55% discount, which made it much more palatable.
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when is 21 supposed to be released? Right now you still download 20 with the ability to upgrade to 21 for free (if you purchase now).
Just curious as they have been talking about 21 for months. (Capture One/Phase One)
Paul C
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Is it just me or is manufacturer specific version of C1 now only offered in non pro? If so that's a huge step backwards.
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Is it just me or is manufacturer specific version of C1 now only offered in non pro? If so that's a huge step backwards.
The "Pro" version delineates itself as being compataible with many manufacturers of camera so there has never been a Pro Sony/Nikon/Fuji version of Capture One so to speak as they are manufacturer specific.
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Others who have experience using manufacturer-specific version of C1PRO should chime in. The way I understand FUJI, Nikon, or Sony specific version is that Capture One (C1) **only** works with the file format of said camera brand. In that context, it is not a step down or degradation. You will still be able to do everything you could in "Capture One Pro" (C1PRO), but now you are restricted to said files online from the camera brand.
Is it just me or is manufacturer specific version of C1 now only offered in non pro? If so that's a huge step backwards.
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I've bought every version of C1 except one. In fact I have two seats. But the dinosaur that they are turning into worries me. I want an iPad version, and I want HEIF support. That is really simple as far as wants go, and fixing some of the lame functionality such as when I go to full screen it requires me to click to get my toolbar back every time would be nice - being sticky would be oh so logical, eh?
Until they get on the ball that iPhones are real imaging devices, I won't buy another version - ever.
They have to raise prices imho because they are dropping the ball at every turn. The dinosaurs lived for a long time, but there is a faint spec that looks like an asteroid if you look closely at the sky. It's called computational photography and it can do things that no DSLR or Mirrorless can hope to ever do. Wake up Phase One - the world has shifted under your feet.
Or Rest in Peace.
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I want an iPad version, and I want HEIF support.
Let's hope so as version 21 seems to have very little fizz at present which is a big shame, made worst by the sour taste of Black Friday customers getting a better deal than loyal existing customers who upgraded early. Fingers crossed that's the big feature they will bring to version 21 early next year like they did in May this year with version 20. Considering to future of Mac is Apple silicon it would seem a given that there has to be an iPad version in the works too.
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Fingers crossed that's the big feature they will bring to version 21
Big feature ? an iPad version ? really ?
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Others who have experience using manufacturer-specific version of C1PRO should chime in. The way I understand FUJI, Nikon, or Sony specific version is that Capture One (C1) **only** works with the file format of said camera brand. In that context, it is not a step down or degradation. You will still be able to do everything you could in "Capture One Pro" (C1PRO), but now you are restricted to said files online from the camera brand.
There used to be a Sony Capture One and Sony Capture One Pro version as far as I remember. Pro features but locked to the manufacturer. I'm now only seeing the basic version offered.
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There used to be a Sony Capture One and Sony Capture One Pro version as far as I remember. Pro features but locked to the manufacturer. I'm now only seeing the basic version offered.
I thought the basic version for Sony was free, and you could opt to upgrade to the Pro version. This was at a time when the only camera brand specific version was for Sony. If my memory is correct, then as you say, that's not available any more. The economics of the agreement no longer suited one party, perhaps both.
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I thought the basic version for Sony was free, and you could opt to upgrade to the Pro version. This was at a time when the only camera brand specific version was for Sony. If my memory is correct, then as you say, that's not available any more. The economics of the agreement no longer suited one party, perhaps both.
If memory serves me, the only difference between a brand specific, paid, version and CO Pro was (is?) that the latter supports all the camera models. So e.g. the Sony version offers the same functionality as the Pro version.
Only with the free CO version for Sony, Fuji etc is the functionality limited.
cheers,
Remko
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[Friday's night rant]
Is it me or it seems odd, the today's marketing?
What used to be the case:
1. one creates a product with exciting features
2. slaps price on it
3. (mostly) the market goes with it because of the effort and worthiness in terms of pricing/value (the appreciation of the added value on both sides)
What it seems to be now:
1. make a big fuss (by even not releasing any hint of the actual product)
2. release something
3. see if you can adjust the consequences with pricing
I, personally, am not voting with money for the second way of product "engineering".
[/Friday's night rant]