Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Beginner's Questions => Topic started by: Kadsura on August 10, 2020, 03:33:21 pm

Title: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Kadsura on August 10, 2020, 03:33:21 pm
Hi, Long-time member, but I have not posted in years. I have not been printing much if anything in the past several years, but I have continued with the landscape, nature, and travel photography that has been one of my passions since I was ten years old.

Anyway, To make a long story short, I am in need of a new monitor. I had a 30" at work, but i actually found this too large. I downsized to a 27", and this seems to be the perfect size for me. I also want something that will be easy on the eyes, as I've had intermittent issues with dry eyes and eyestrain, despite new glasses picked up just before the pandemic lockdown (issues pre-date new glasses by several years).

I do not want to spend more than about 500$ on this, and will buy other monitor calibration tools as needed. I would like something to cover as much as possible of Adobe RGB gamut, but I really do not do much with video and have no need for even 4K at this point. I also spend a lot of time with Camtasia making lectures for my students (I am a university professor), and a lot of time in Powerpoint. I am still using LR 6.0 for now, but that will change in the near future (looking at raw development alternatives).

Any recommendations appreciated. Thanks. 
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Rhossydd on August 10, 2020, 05:49:10 pm
Push your budget and get a Eizo CS2731.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: digitaldog on August 10, 2020, 06:11:07 pm
Push your budget and get a Eizo CS2731.
+1 (push the budget). The last item in a digital darkroom to budget is a display.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: DP on August 10, 2020, 07:11:41 pm
Hi, Long-time member, but I have not posted in years. I have not been printing much if anything in the past several years, but I have continued with the landscape, nature, and travel photography that has been one of my passions since I was ten years old.

Anyway, To make a long story short, I am in need of a new monitor. I had a 30" at work, but i actually found this too large. I downsized to a 27", and this seems to be the perfect size for me. I also want something that will be easy on the eyes, as I've had intermittent issues with dry eyes and eyestrain, despite new glasses picked up just before the pandemic lockdown (issues pre-date new glasses by several years).

I do not want to spend more than about 500$ on this, and will buy other monitor calibration tools as needed. I would like something to cover as much as possible of Adobe RGB gamut, but I really do not do much with video and have no need for even 4K at this point. I also spend a lot of time with Camtasia making lectures for my students (I am a university professor), and a lot of time in Powerpoint. I am still using LR 6.0 for now, but that will change in the near future (looking at raw development alternatives).

Any recommendations appreciated. Thanks.

almost in your price range are models like BenQ SW2700PT ( https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1176775-REG/benq_sw2700pt_27_photographer_monitor_with.html )  or Dell UltraSharp ( https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194915-REG/dell_up2716d_27_widescreen_led.html/overview ) or HP ( https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1111072-REG/hp_d7r00a8_aba_business_z27x_widescreen_lcd.html ) ...

pushing for NEC or Eizo means doubling+ (NEC) or tripling+ (Eizo) the money - you certainly will gain a much better panel uniformity for example ... are you going to notice it and suffer mentally ?
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: digitaldog on August 10, 2020, 07:30:43 pm
And be sure to Google BenQ palette master bugs.
And you do not need to double or triple to get SpectraView:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1445342-REG/nec_ea271u_bk_sv_27_4k_uhd_business_class.html
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Rhossydd on August 11, 2020, 04:26:23 am
pushing for NEC or Eizo means doubling+ (NEC) or tripling+ (Eizo) the money
Really ? In the UK a Eizo CS is £850, a BenQ £700 so that nothing like a tripling in price, it's less than 25%
 
Quote
- you certainly will gain a much better panel uniformity for example ... are you going to notice it and suffer mentally ?
'suffer mentallly' ?? probably not, you might start finding editing gets frustrating if different parts change as you zoom in and out and sometimes working with less than optimal screens will make any sort of display based work more tiring.

Another aspect of buying a high quality screen is the long term stability and 'out of the box' calibration. Having recently bought an Eizo CS I was delighted at how good it was set up on arrival. It really didn't need profiling at all, though that might sound like heresy to some.

As  Andrew says, the screen is probably the single most important component of a digital imaging system. They last a long time and you'll sends hours working on them, skimping isn't clever.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Peter McLennan on August 11, 2020, 11:13:16 am
Acer K272HUL.  IPS 27" panel. Superb image, even illumination, good colour and adequate resolution 2560X1440 pixels  ~$400USD a couple of years ago. 

My six foot wide prints look identical to those from my $1500 NEC panel which died and was not repairable.

Before the Colour Science gurus pipe up with denigration and complaints, please note that this is in the "Beginner's Questions" forum and that it fits within the OP's budget.

Please also note that I'm a retired Director of Photography with Hollywood screen credits and I've been making digital images since the middle 90s.

Just sayin'

Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Rhossydd on August 11, 2020, 11:35:18 am
please note that this is in the "Beginner's Questions" forum and that it fits within the OP's budget.
Firstly that model is no longer available, but wouldn't have suited the OP's requirement of "as possible of Adobe RGB gamut". On test it didn't even manage sRGB fully and that was only after calibration (https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/accessories/pc-monitors/1400239/acer-k272hul-review).

I think anyone clued up enough to ask for "as possible of Adobe RGB gamut" isn't really a beginner as such. Once you start to ask for that quality, it's going to cost. Then you need to consider the quality/longevity/reliability equation, the lowest cost of purchase isn't always the lowest cost of ownership.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Peter McLennan on August 11, 2020, 01:05:50 pm
Firstly that model is no longer available, but wouldn't have suited the OP's requirement of "as possible of Adobe RGB gamut". On test it didn't even manage sRGB fully and that was only after calibration (https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/accessories/pc-monitors/1400239/acer-k272hul-review).

I think anyone clued up enough to ask for "as possible of Adobe RGB gamut" isn't really a beginner as such. Once you start to ask for that quality, it's going to cost. Then you need to consider the quality/longevity/reliability equation, the lowest cost of purchase isn't always the lowest cost of ownership.

I knew this would happen.  Sacred cows and all that.

From the review:

The K272HUL is capable of impressive colour accuracy. Out of the box it was able to display 93.5% of the sRGB colour gamut, and after some careful calibration we were able to improve this to an almost-perfect 99.8 per cent. The colours in our test images were bright and vivid, while solid reds and blues looked sumptuous. Greens weren't quite as saturated as we would have liked, but not to the extent that it was worth worrying about. Whites were pure with no hint of grey, and there was no trace of light bleeding through from the backlight when the screen was totally black.

Black levels were about what we would expect from an IPS screen, with the black areas of our test images appearing deep and inky. The high 838:1 contrast ratio allowed us to see a high level of detail in our high-contrast test images, with darker details remaining visible and bright areas not looking washed out.


The facts remain, it's good enough for high quality photo editing, it's within the OP's budget and it is still available.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=acer+k272hul+monitor&crid=2GWTTYGR0DYEP&sprefix=Acer+K272HUL%2Caps%2C216&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-o-p_4_12

Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: digitaldog on August 11, 2020, 01:19:44 pm
The K272HUL is capable of impressive colour accuracy.
I'm game: what's the accuracy? How many samples (so we get an average dE, max/min), where in color space (because dark saturated colors are more difficult than others), what's the reference used against the measurements using what device and where the measurements made in one area on the display or many areas of the display?
It's really easy to say something os color (or colour  ;D) accurate. It's not always easy to prove with actual data. Now that data may exist and if so, it's useful to know about.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Peter McLennan on August 11, 2020, 01:21:39 pm
I knew this would happen.  Sacred cows and all that.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: digitaldog on August 11, 2020, 01:24:09 pm
I knew this would happen.  Sacred cows and all that.

;D "Donít repeat yourself. Itís not only repetitive, itís redundant, and people have heard it before." -Daniel Handler
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Peter McLennan on August 11, 2020, 01:26:43 pm
It was easier than typing it again.  8)
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: digitaldog on August 11, 2020, 01:28:08 pm
Quote
It was easier than typing it again.
And how about typing (or copy/paste) the answer to the question about color/colour accuracy?
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Kadsura on August 11, 2020, 03:58:05 pm
Thanks for the replies. I am considering the Dell, NEC, and EIZO mentioned above

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194915-REG/dell_up2716d_27_widescreen_led.html/qa

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1445342-REG/nec_ea271u_bk_sv_27_4k_uhd_business_class.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1566863-REG/eizo_cs2731_bk_cnx_coloredge_cs2731_27_hardware.html


Aside from the more obvious differences (NEC is 4K; Dell claims 100% of Adobe RGB, etc.), is it true that the EIZO is the hands-down winner here? How do the other two compare in your opinion?

Of course, with most hobbies (vices?--I am into "high-end" audio, vinyl LPs, and mechanical watches too--God help me), seeking high quality replacements/acquisitions becomes a slippery slope in terms of cost (as well as time and energy). What was originally budgeted for 500$ could end up being triple or more with the EIZO, calbiration software and hood! I have been out of touch with all the latest advancements in monitors, and for some reason thought prices had come down more than what I am seeing.



Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: digitaldog on August 11, 2020, 04:04:01 pm
Don't buy a hood, you can make one from black foam core for next to nothing.
Do get a good Colorimeter (X-rite).
You can sometimes save a bit with a bundle with host software.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Rhossydd on August 11, 2020, 05:30:04 pm
Aside from the more obvious differences (NEC is 4K; Dell claims 100% of Adobe RGB, etc.), is it true that the EIZO is the hands-down winner here?
4k on 27" needs consideration, will your software look acceptable on such a high resolution ? Icons and toolbars too small etc.... I didn't want that sort of problem. Maybe important for editing 4k video, but even as a television professional I can't see myself needing that.

NEC ? I've had two NEC Spectraviews fail and be too expensive too repair. Nice when working and let's not mention the Spectraview software, best forgotten IMHO, but the also most costly option for me here in the UK.

The CS2731 seems great here, fantastic accuracy, good software and all easy on the eye and wallet, what's not to like ?
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Kadsura on August 11, 2020, 06:26:23 pm
Turns out my new PC (Refurb Dell Precision 3630 - Intel Xeon quad core; 32 Gb Ram; 256 Gb SSD; 2 TB HDD) does not have HDMI, but rather Display Port. I was concerned about this, but it seems most monitors support this. Another new thing learned today.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: DP on August 11, 2020, 08:06:16 pm
Really ? In the UK a Eizo CS is £850, a BenQ £700 so that nothing like a tripling in price, it's less than 25%

I meant doubling or tripling vs $500 the OP stated, not vs Benq... but correct cheapest Eizo CS 27 is less than triple
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Kadsura on August 11, 2020, 09:16:00 pm
Opinions on BenQ? For example: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1176775-REG/benq_sw2700pt_27_photographer_monitor_with.html
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Peter McLennan on August 11, 2020, 10:51:33 pm
And how about typing (or copy/paste) the answer to the question about color/colour accuracy?

I considered that a rhetorical question.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Rhossydd on August 12, 2020, 03:49:09 am
Turns out my new PC ......... does not have HDMI, but rather Display Port.
Same here, another reason I went for the Eizo. A lot of the budget screens now don't have that option.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: digitaldog on August 12, 2020, 08:33:58 am
I considered that a rhetorical question.
To a meaningless statement about color accuracy. Got it.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Peter McLennan on August 12, 2020, 09:37:18 am
To a meaningless statement about color accuracy. Got it.

Not made nor verifiable by me.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: digitaldog on August 12, 2020, 09:40:33 am
Not made nor verifiable by me.
Just passed along here and again meaningless.
"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
-Bertrand Russell
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: BobShaw on August 12, 2020, 10:11:59 pm
The big question is, how much editing of the image do you do?

Look at it this way, most cameras will produce a JPG file. If you pulled that card out of the camera and plugged it into a printer that takes cards and pressed print, how much influence would your monitor have? The answer of course is absolutely nothing. The monitor is not in the output path, and it never is.

If you only shoot portrait then you will never exceed sRGB anyway, and almost any monitor can do that. (Some better than others obviously)
If you are producing for the web, then again you only need sRGB.

If you shoot product then the colour is critical, but not on the monitor. You calibrate the camera and the colour is right, and the output will be right, regardless of what the monitor looks like. I export a TIF out of Phocus and its gets no further adjustments, because it's right. I very quickly got over the temptation to adjust.

I have an Eizo monitor attached to my iMac, but most times I just look at the iMac. I probably would not buy another Eizo because I don't need it.

However if you edit the colours a lot then the monitor is important. It is up to you.
Title: Re: What would you buy in a 27" monitor now?
Post by: Kadsura on August 12, 2020, 10:38:56 pm
I bought this . https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1176775-REG/benq_sw2700pt_27_photographer_monitor_with.html

Mostly great reviews and highly recommended by two folks at BH I spoke to. Has the specs I want, and I decided I do not want or need 4K in a monitor any time soon, especially a 27". Revoke my cool photographer card if need be.  :-* I also do not even own a printer, and sometimes I even say "screw it" when it comes to exposing to the right. And, the extra 600$ the EIZO would cost is not nothing to me. I spend my money more on travel--France last year, Ireland in 2017, and lots of trips up to the SF Bay area and environs to escape the horror of living in SoCal. If anything, I prioritize opportunity and capture over post-processing at this point in my life (And I'm probably going to CaptureOne after 14 years with LR, cause I'm not going to pay for CC every month). When I'm an old geezer, I won't be able to trek around the world as I (my wife and I) can now. (In case you are curious, I use a Nikon D7200 as my main rig and an Oly TG-5 for when things get really wet/messy)

In addition, I do about an hour of image editing per week at most in the last several years. Most of the work I'm known for (to the extent I'm known at all) is my grayscale electron micrography, which has been featured on a dozen journal, book, and magazine covers, and in five museum/gallery exhibits. For those cases, no matter how effort I expend on my image editing, most of of the downstream editing, production/printing is out of my control. And even then, color accuracy is not an issue (provided printers do not introduce a color cast). Sure, if I did hours of post-processing a day, I would certainly buy the EIZO. But, just like the guy who needs a fun car (e.g., a Miata) that will also serve mostly as a commuter, I also do not need to shell out 100$K to get 700 HP.