Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on April 04, 2020, 02:50:01 am

Title: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 04, 2020, 02:50:01 am
C1 Pro 12 used to be several times faster than LR on my 2013 Mac Pro. The comparison was done with the previous version of LR, not the latest one.

Now C1 Pro 20 is about 4 times slower than LR on the new Mac Pro 2019... I am very disappointed.

I have raised a ticket to P1 several days back and am waiting for an answer.

Anybody else seeing the same issues?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on April 04, 2020, 06:25:38 am
i guess you mean it is really slower than on the previous mac ; Or is LR just so much faster?
LR uses all the CPU cores to the limit and makes use of the GPU, so with a MacPro having many cores it could be way faster.

On my 10 core i9 LR is certainly as fast as CaptureOne
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 04, 2020, 08:19:13 am
i guess you mean it is really slower than on the previous mac ; Or is LR just so much faster?
LR uses all the CPU cores to the limit and makes use of the GPU, so with a MacPro having many cores it could be way faster.

On my 10 core i9 LR is certainly as fast as CaptureOne

I didn't do accurate measures, but I think it's both.

It takes about 25s to process one GFX-100 16 bits raw in C1 Pro on the Mac Pro 2019 and 5s in LR.

I think that it took less than 20s on the Mac Pro 2013 that should be 3-4 times slower.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on April 04, 2020, 09:03:47 am
Maybe the GPU does not work well with Phase one- don't have it.
LR has about the same speed on my computer so about 5 sec for an GFX100RAW.
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 05, 2020, 07:44:09 pm
Maybe the GPU does not work well with Phase one- don't have it.
LR has about the same speed on my computer so about 5 sec for an GFX100RAW.

Yes, I believe it's a GPU optimization issue. Of a simple bug, the GPU is used at 0% during export...

Regards,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: JaapD on April 06, 2020, 02:20:16 am
It sure looks like the GPU will not be assessed at all.

Ok, you’re on a Mac so you have a different file system w.r.t. the following procedure. Maybe you’re still able to perform a similar approach as on a Win7 PC.

Force C1 to re-assess the GPU (assuming it is NOT set to "None" under hardware acceleration in the preferences.)
Clear the files to force the re-assessment here:
   C:\ProgramData\Phase One\Capture One\ImageCore

Regards,
Jaap.




Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 06, 2020, 05:42:06 am
It sure looks like the GPU will not be assessed at all.

Ok, you’re on a Mac so you have a different file system w.r.t. the following procedure. Maybe you’re still able to perform a similar approach as on a Win7 PC.

Force C1 to re-assess the GPU (assuming it is NOT set to "None" under hardware acceleration in the preferences.)
Clear the files to force the re-assessment here:
   C:\ProgramData\Phase One\Capture One\ImageCore

Regards,
Jaap.

Thanks a lot. I found this in the KB and tried a few days back, but unfortunately there was no improvement after the profile was rebuilt.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on April 06, 2020, 06:07:58 am
So maybe the GPU is not identified by Capture-one... PhaseOne has to come up with answers.
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: JaapD on April 06, 2020, 07:02:04 am
By the way, how much VRAM does your graphics card have? I’m not fully sure on this but I believe C1 needs at least to have a minimum of 2Gb in order to apply GPU processing.

Since you have a recent Mac my question is probably superfluous, but just to be sure……  ;)

Regards,
Jaap.

Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 06, 2020, 05:01:59 pm
By the way, how much VRAM does your graphics card have? I’m not fully sure on this but I believe C1 needs at least to have a minimum of 2Gb in order to apply GPU processing.

Since you have a recent Mac my question is probably superfluous, but just to be sure……  ;)

If I am not mistaken 2x32GB. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on April 07, 2020, 03:41:56 am
If I am not mistaken 2x32GB. ;)
Should be enough for most Raw files ;)
20 seconds on C1... sounds more like 2x 32MB
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 07, 2020, 04:09:48 am
Should be enough for most Raw files ;)
20 seconds on C1... sounds more like 2x 32MB

 ;D

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: Fraktal on April 07, 2020, 11:31:43 am
Hello all, i bought a 2019 macbook pro I9/32 GB RAM with Vega 20 GPU and exporting files on Capture One20 is at least 3 times faster than my previous machine macbook pro 2015 I7/16GB RAM.
So i am very pleased with the performance of the new machine and i did not expect such improvement.
Cheers
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 07, 2020, 06:26:50 pm
Hello all, i bought a 2019 macbook pro I9/32 GB RAM with Vega 20 GPU and exporting files on Capture One20 is at least 3 times faster than my previous machine macbook pro 2015 I7/16GB RAM.
So i am very pleased with the performance of the new machine and i did not expect such improvement.
Cheers

Glad it’s working for you. That’s the kind of improvement I was hoping to see.

I can understand considering the situation obviously, but still no answer from Capture One team.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: Fraktal on April 07, 2020, 09:56:12 pm
Yes, it's annoying to invest lots of bucks and time and get nothing in return. I really hope that things turn for the better soon!
Regards,
Fraktal
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 08, 2020, 12:29:25 am
Yes, it's annoying to invest lots of bucks and time and get nothing in return. I really hope that things turn for the better soon!
Regards,
Fraktal

Thanks. Capture One was very responsive 6 years ago when Mac Pro 2013 users were facing similar GPU issues.

It took them several dot releases but they managed to make it work with a great level of performance.

The person who was then in charge of their R&D has since left, I hope that the current team will be as effective and resilient.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: JaapD on April 12, 2020, 06:17:42 am
Maybe, possibly, the GPU data path in the C1 Software is not suited to handle your massive amount of 64 Gb. As an experiment you could try to take out one GPU card, for the time being of course, and see what C1 thinks of this configuration.

Highly speculative of course  ;)

Regards,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 13, 2020, 08:46:07 am
Maybe, possibly, the GPU data path in the C1 Software is not suited to handle your massive amount of 64 Gb. As an experiment you could try to take out one GPU card, for the time being of course, and see what C1 thinks of this configuration.

Highly speculative of course  ;)

Regards,
Jaap.

Thanks but that’s not really an option. They come as one module that isn’t user serviceable.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 14, 2020, 06:37:19 pm
Got a one line answer from Capture One... 15.4 is not supported... while the issue also occurs on 15.3.

I understand these are difficult times but software companies can work from home with little impact (I know what I am talking about) and Denmark is not that affected...

Regards,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 15, 2020, 10:45:37 pm
I got advise to re-install C1 Pro after a total clean up, rebuilt the OpenCL profile.

I spent 40 mins doing it, no difference whatsoever.

Grrrrr...

Still zero intention from P1 to consider this as a software issue.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: Mike Dale on April 16, 2020, 03:36:06 pm
What are the specs of your MacBook Pro?

I have a new one:
16” 2019
2.4 GHz 8 Core I9
32 Gb 2667 MHz DDR4

If they are the same or similar and we use the same file and process we can do a comparison.

Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 16, 2020, 03:52:33 pm
What are the specs of your MacBook Pro?

I have a new one:
16” 2019
2.4 GHz 8 Core I9
32 Gb 2667 MHz DDR4

If they are the same or similar and we use the same file and process we can do a comparison.

Thanks but it’s a MacPro 2019 (the desktop tower) not a macbook.

It has 16 cores, 384GB ram and 2 GPU with 32GB each. I suspect a bug with the GPU profiles or something of the sort.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: Mike Dale on April 16, 2020, 04:19:15 pm
Oops. Should have worn my reading glasses.
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 16, 2020, 09:10:35 pm
Oops. Should have worn my reading glasses.

No worries.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on April 17, 2020, 08:04:16 am
Thanks but it’s a MacPro 2019 (the desktop tower) not a macbook.

It has 16 cores, 384GB ram and 2 GPU with 32GB each. I suspect a bug with the GPU profiles or something of the sort.

Cheers,
Bernard


Did you test the GPU in with other GPU-intensive software?
ptGUi for instance?
there are also programs like Geekbech to test the GPU perfomance...
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 17, 2020, 09:33:07 am

Did you test the GPU in with other GPU-intensive software?
ptGUi for instance?
there are also programs like Geekbech to test the GPU perfomance...

Yes, GPU seems to behave as expected.

Ptgui generates 4Gb stitches in less than 20s.

Benchmark results are within 2-3% of expectations.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on April 17, 2020, 09:49:46 am
OK then it is upto Phase-one as was expected.
They should take this serious, I am sure you are not alone in this.

Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on April 18, 2020, 07:06:58 am
Just came across this :

https://blog.macsales.com/60773-why-is-my-mac-hanging-when-copying-files-after-upgrading-to-macos-catalina-10-15-4/

It might be of importance to you Bernard...  I could not find your other thread aboth the thunderblade - so i put it here.
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 18, 2020, 09:52:53 am
Just came across this :

https://blog.macsales.com/60773-why-is-my-mac-hanging-when-copying-files-after-upgrading-to-macos-catalina-10-15-4/

It might be of importance to you Bernard...  I could not find your other thread aboth the thunderblade - so i put it here.

Thanks a lot, much appreciated!

10.5.4 seems to have been one of the worse OSX patches in recent years...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 24, 2020, 05:39:03 pm
Fyi C1 has acknowledged this as a bug.

But there is no clear plan when it can be corrected.

I would strongly advise all current desktop mac C1 users to either wait until mac pro 2019 purchase or consider moving to another raw converter. Lightroom is very fast on the new Mac Pro as exoected.

Cheers,
Bernard 
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: budjames on May 02, 2020, 08:43:14 am
I have a 2017 iMacPro with 63GB RAM, 2TB internal SSD and Radeon Pro Bega 56 8GB graphics card running Catalina. I've been using Capture One Pro 20 since the beta release.

One easy recommendations is in C1P Preferences to turn both Open CL settings from the default of Auto to Never. This was recommendation from C1 support a few versions ago to stop sluggish performance. It worked.

Now that I have the latest version of C1P installed, I turned the Open CL settings back to Auto. I have not noticed any difference in performance since doing that.

I have found that a big issue is where you store your C1P catalogs. I have them installed on my internal SSD. I use a reference folder file structure. My 6 TB of image files reside on a OWC ThunderBlade SSD external drive connected via Thunderbolt2. I'm very happy with my setup.

Another important issue, especially if you are coming from Lightroom. C1P does not handle large catalogs like LR. When I converted to C1P about three years ago, my LR catalog referenced about 130k+ images. C1P choked on the import of this catalog. I ended up splitting my catalog in to separate catalogs for each 2-3 years of images. A nice feature of C1P is that you can have multiple catalogs open at the same time, unlike LR. However, have separate catalogs limits your ability to search across your whole image catalog.

I'm a hobbyist, so I generate about 10k images a year. If you keep your C1P catalogs under 20k images, they will remain responsive.

The speed of your drives is also an important function in overall performance. Prior to the OWD ThunderBlade drive, I used a 4-bay OWC ThunderBay4 with fast 4TB drives in RAID 0 configuration. The average read/write speeds of the ThunderBay4 was about 500-600 MPS. The OWC ThunderBlade 8TB SSD drive has average read/writes speeds to 1,900-2,000 MPS which is similar to the iMac Pro internal SSD speeds. It flies!

For those considering converting from Lightroom to C1P, do it! The image quality is better and I've found that the program is so capable that I no longer use expensive plugins like NIK or others. B&W conversion is awesome too. I print to my Epson P800 from within C1P. The C1P print function is very usable, but not as elegant or feature rich as the LR Print Module. I find this a minor issue compared to all of the other benefits of C1P.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 04, 2020, 06:01:34 pm
Thanks but I tried all that...

- C1 pro has been my main converter for many years, but I still use LR for Hassy files
- on my Mac Pro 2013 the performance was much better when using GPU (auto mode)
- on the mac pro 2019 I see no difference
- My catalog resides on my main internal SSD with read/write speed of 2500 MB/s
- I tried with my images stored on that ssd and on my external raid 6 unit, no difference of performance when exporting images, it takes 25s per GFX-100 tiff in both cases which is 5 times slower than LR

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on May 05, 2020, 05:43:35 am
Coming back the the Raid0 SSD solution you tried from OCW.
I just have a 50€ PCI card installed in my Hackintosh with two samsung 970 EVO 1TB. ( can use 4 on it)  - total cost = 175*2+50 €   
It does 4300mb/ sec. (- one is doing 2500MB/sec)
I still work with 32 Gig Ram; my money is limited and i see there is no real bottleneck there - i can even open an occasional 30GB panorama in 40 sec if necessary.
But loading and saving quantities of the normal GB-files i use cannot be fast enough.
At the moment AMD is making very nice and cheap multicore processors- there flagship is 64 core and costs 4000€  (3990X) and uses PCI-4.0.
Intel is alarmed and has slammed their prices by a factor 2. But those processors are all sold out at the moment...
ergo: the MacPro is too expensive for what it delivers- except for some high end finalcut pro users- but even they like to use the 64 core AMD.

Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: JaapD on May 06, 2020, 02:24:35 am
I just have a 50€ PCI card installed in my Hackintosh with two samsung 970 EVO 1TB. ( can use 4 on it)  - total cost = 175*2+50 €   
It does 4300mb/ sec. (- one is doing 2500MB/sec)

Hi Pieter,

Care to share exactly what PCI card you're using here? I'm tempted to purchase one of these......

Cheers,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on May 06, 2020, 05:33:34 am
not 100% sure for my Hackintosh is made by an expert...not by me...
but 95% sure...    ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 Card V2

it costs only 50-60€ and it works on my computer on an Asus PRIME_X299-DELUXE motherboard- a PCI 3.0.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0863KK2BP

of course you need a fresh 16x slot and a cpu that can handle enough pci-lanes to get the 100% performance

that is why it is better to choose a cpu with many PCI-lanes. video =16 this card makes it already 32
every m2 needs 4 lanes like thunderbolt3/ usb 3.2 ...
my CPU has 44 lanes... not too much.
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: JaapD on May 06, 2020, 09:21:51 am
Thank you Pieter, most helpful!
Yes, the board is indeed a hungry PCI lane consumer.

Cheers,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 19, 2020, 09:19:12 am
Unfortunately it looks like 20.1 is not improving on this Mac Pro 2019 performance issue...

Becoming very disappointed in Capture One.

Regards,
Bernard
Title: Re: Very poor performance of c1 Pro on new Mac Pro 2019
Post by: kers on May 19, 2020, 11:09:17 am
Unfortunately it looks like 20.1 is not improving on this Mac Pro 2019 performance issue...

Becoming very disappointed in Capture One.

Regards,
Bernard

I guess they were very busy with the new plans for Nikon ed and the upgrade- hope they now have time to address your problem.
BTW i got diappointed in Phase one for they sold me MediaPro SE and just a month later stopt the support for 64 bit systems.
They now even say you can use it upto OSX 13.3 ; that means half a year before i bought it....

PS have you seen this?
https://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2020/20200518_1320-MacPro2019-kernel-panics.html