Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: vinz on March 06, 2020, 11:58:16 am
-
Hello,
New owner of the HP Z9 + 24 inch. Very happy with it, especially with the ease of creating profiles and printing speed.
But when profiling and printing on Canson Photolustre Premium RC with different settings (different paper profiles as a base) and starwheels UP, I'm always seeing starwheels marks on the print (see file attached). In fact, printing with starwheels down or up give the same bad results... Extended dry time changes nothing to it.
So, with the help of the service manual (link provided by Mark on another Z9 thread, thanks !), I booted the printer in diagnostic mode to test the starwheels motor (test 0065-05) : the test failed. (see file attached)
I'm curious to know the result of this test of Z9 users using the same firmware ?
HP level 2 support send me a link to a new beta firmware to see if it resolves the issue, I'm downloading it now and will be testing it as soon as I can and report it here.
PS : sorry for my english and the style of the post, English isn't my native language ;)
-
The beta firmware solved the problem :D
The 0065-05 test is now OK and there's no starwheels marks on the test print I made. (Black and white print neutrality is really great on this printer, by the way !)
Happy user :D
If you face the same problem I had and can't wait for the official release of the new firmware, PM me for the download link.
-
Hello Vinz,
thank you for sharing...
Greetings Gerd
-
Wow that is a real basic problem- they took much too long to solve it!
-
Black and white neutrality and precision, even with the standard 400 something patch super fast target method is excellent. That’s with no color inks used. I wish I had one. I’m very impressed with what they have done in regard to that dual drop tech. I suspect there will will be all kinds of tweaking of the drivers on them over time. The hard ware is impressive.
It takes HP awhile to smooth out the bumps in their print drivers sometimes. Probably communication issues between departments. But it looks like Epson is going through the same thing with their new large format printers as hardware improvements are made.
John
Wow that is a real basic problem- they took much too long to solve it!
-
Wow that is a real basic problem- they took much too long to solve it!
I'll consider the problem solved when they release the official firmware. ;)
Running the printer on beta firmware, even if it fixes the starwheels motor issue, make me wonder if I will encounter some new bugs...
Black and white neutrality and precision, even with the standard 400 something patch super fast target method is excellent. That’s with no color inks used. I wish I had one. I’m very impressed with what they have done in regard to that dual drop tech. I suspect there will will be all kinds of tweaking of the drivers on them over time. The hard ware is impressive.
Sure ! This hardware is really impressive, and so are the results ! I hope they'll release updates with the ability of making bigger targets to see if it can be improved further.
-
Exactly! That should not be difficult for them and it could push their hardware beyond what any of us have seen with any platform, and all automatically and quickly, with no extra profiling software needed. That imbedded spectrometer has never been pushed to its logical capability, at least not by 99.99 % of the users out there and it’s what, 12 years old?
Sure ! This hardware is really impressive, and so are the results ! I hope they'll release updates with the ability of making bigger targets to see if it can be improved further.
[/quote]
-
Exactly! That should not be difficult for them and it could push their hardware beyond what any of us have seen with any platform, and all automatically and quickly, with no extra profiling software needed. That imbedded spectrometer has never been pushed to its logical capability, at least not by 99.99 % of the users out there and it’s what, 12 years old?
Since it relies on xRite ... xRite wll possibly restricted its use to keep you buying their other equipment.
-
Don’t see how they can do that. The hardware works with other software not made by x-rite.
This tech should be offered in Epson and Canon machines as well, even if as an extra option. I sure wish I had it in those printers.
I talk to people who teach in art schools and it seems like these days about 90 % of students use generic manufacturer profiles, and I imagine the rate is similar for amateur photographers using Epson and Canon printers especially desktop ones. Just read the posts on this site. They could get much better results with an automated system for custom paper profiles, not to mention much better linearization on “alternative” media and better neutrality of monochrome .
Since it relies on xRite ... xRite wll possibly restricted its use to keep you buying their other equipment.
-
Anyone have experience of profiling satin canvas on the HP machines? I lost the will to live trying to profile Epson Premium Satin Canvas using a rev D (and have a very regular client who loves this beyond all other materials). With all the talk of the larger aperture i1Pro3 and speculars, the onboard spectro would be a real bonus.
-
I've worked ad nauseam on this issue with HP Barcelona. There are several issues. Currently, they are slammed fixing bugs and problems, trying to keep up with critical issues with the Z9+. Until they have things under control, the firmware team won't do anything that isn't critical.
It was explained that the original APS (Advanced Profiling System) was initiated with the Z3100 and carried through the Z3200, then it was discontinued due to lack of interest and sales of the APS accessory.
I have asked many time if they could bring back the APS and they are considering it.
The abilities to utilize the ESP (Embedded SpectroPhotometer) in the Z3200ps versions are because the HP Utility has not been gelded - it's a hold-over from the APS of the Z3200 before they discontinued it.
In the Z9+ versions, the ESP is limited to doing all but extended profiles. Unfortunately, it's probably not coming back anytime soon.
The good news is, however, that unlike the Z3200ps, the Z9+ pretty much nails the internally generated 464 patch profile.
Even if the fully enabled Z9+ Spectro was available, it would require serious mojo (like from Mark McCormick) to improve upon it.
More good news is that if one has a Z3200, as well as the Z9+, a target can be generated out of the Z3200 Utility, printed on the Z9+, then fed back into the Z3200 to be scanned and read. Of course, the ICC profile would need to be converted by third party software, such as Argyll or Drop RGB (from Basic Color), etc.
So we lack the speed and accuracy of the Z9+ in scanning with the Spectro, but the options are still there to make critical extended patch target ICC profiles for it using the Z3200(ps,etc).
Not all bad. Work arounds are all part of it. Maybe some day they'll get around to it, maybe not. They have improved the profiling capabilities so much that all but the most insanely obsessive and compulsive (such as many of us are) will find it really great, not just good, but great.
My motto is: "Why make things great when you can go above great and get somewhere just beneath perfection, where lies insane excellence."
(This is hardly the sentiment of most people using Z9+ printers).
I'd love to have the ESP working unbridled in the Z9+. Maybe some day.
Best-
Mark
-
I've worked ad nauseam on this issue with HP Barcelona. There are several issues. Currently, they are slammed fixing bugs and problems, trying to keep up with critical issues with the Z9+. Until they have things under control, the firmware team won't do anything that isn't critical.
It was explained that the original APS (Advanced Profiling System) was initiated with the Z3100 and carried through the Z3200, then it was discontinued due to lack of interest and sales of the APS accessory.
I have asked many time if they could bring back the APS and they are considering it.
The abilities to utilize the ESP (Embedded SpectroPhotometer) in the Z3200ps versions are because the HP Utility has not been gelded - it's a hold-over from the APS of the Z3200 before they discontinued it.
In the Z9+ versions, the ESP is limited to doing all but extended profiles. Unfortunately, it's probably not coming back anytime soon.
The good news is, however, that unlike the Z3200ps, the Z9+ pretty much nails the internally generated 464 patch profile.
Even if the fully enabled Z9+ Spectro was available, it would require serious mojo (like from Mark McCormick) to improve upon it.
More good news is that if one has a Z3200, as well as the Z9+, a target can be generated out of the Z3200 Utility, printed on the Z9+, then fed back into the Z3200 to be scanned and read. Of course, the ICC profile would need to be converted by third party software, such as Argyll or Drop RGB (from Basic Color), etc.
So we lack the speed and accuracy of the Z9+ in scanning with the Spectro, but the options are still there to make critical extended patch target ICC profiles for it using the Z3200(ps,etc).
Not all bad. Work arounds are all part of it. Maybe some day they'll get around to it, maybe not. They have improved the profiling capabilities so much that all but the most insanely obsessive and compulsive (such as many of us are) will find it really great, not just good, but great.
My motto is: "Why make things great when you can go above great and get somewhere just beneath perfection, where lies insane excellence."
(This is hardly the sentiment of most people using Z9+ printers).
I'd love to have the ESP working unbridled in the Z9+. Maybe some day.
Best-
Mark
I never like it when a machine/camera/printer is crippled on purpose.
Then i rather have a choice and pay some more to open it up to all the functions.
The APS that you mentioned; i bought it with the Z3100 and it only worked 2 years, after that the software did not function on the newer OS and the colorimeter went crazy ending up as a expensive USB-dongle
It is for this reason i still have an old computer for making profiles.
-
Thanks for the full report Mark. Really appreciated.
You have looked at a lot more color prints than I have ( compared to the z3200 mega patch profile results) .
But as I mentioned awhile back, when I compared my 6000 patch Z3200ps Platine profile on a difficult bw print to your Z9 464 parch icc on the same print, they were aesthetically the same. It does an excellent job with monochrome and with such speed that I seriously doubt adding a huge target profile would change much. I mean for an excellent QTR target for Epson printers, 50 patches is like the max anyone would ever use and most use 20 hand read patches for bw. But it’s kind of an unknown theoretical idea.
Now for color, the only way to know if it would even be worth the trouble to go over 464 patches would be to generate it on the Z3200 and print it out on the Z9 and semi gloss media, and compare directly like you say.. I’m sure you and Mark will try that eventually 😊 if you haven’t already. But, if you do find really noticeable color improvement you would have something concrete to show HP Barcelona. If it’s not obvious they are not going to go back into it I wouldn’t think.
I would imagine their biggest headaches are dealing with Apple and Microsoft, and maintaining the firmware they have on various OS drivers is the most important issue. Totally understand that. But we can dream.
I've worked ad nauseam on this issue with HP Barcelona. There are several issues. Currently, they are slammed fixing bugs and problems, trying to keep up with critical issues with the Z9+. Until they have things under control, the firmware team won't do anything that isn't critical.
It was explained that the original APS (Advanced Profiling System) was initiated with the Z3100 and carried through the Z3200, then it was discontinued due to lack of interest and sales of the APS accessory.
I have asked many time if they could bring back the APS and they are considering it.
The abilities to utilize the ESP (Embedded SpectroPhotometer) in the Z3200ps versions are because the HP Utility has not been gelded - it's a hold-over from the APS of the Z3200 before they discontinued it.
In the Z9+ versions, the ESP is limited to doing all but extended profiles. Unfortunately, it's probably not coming back anytime soon.
The good news is, however, that unlike the Z3200ps, the Z9+ pretty much nails the internally generated 464 patch profile.
Even if the fully enabled Z9+ Spectro was available, it would require serious mojo (like from Mark McCormick) to improve upon it.
More good news is that if one has a Z3200, as well as the Z9+, a target can be generated out of the Z3200 Utility, printed on the Z9+, then fed back into the Z3200 to be scanned and read. Of course, the ICC profile would need to be converted by third party software, such as Argyll or Drop RGB (from Basic Color), etc.
So we lack the speed and accuracy of the Z9+ in scanning with the Spectro, but the options are still there to make critical extended patch target ICC profiles for it using the Z3200(ps,etc).
Not all bad. Work arounds are all part of it. Maybe some day they'll get around to it, maybe not. They have improved the profiling capabilities so much that all but the most insanely obsessive and compulsive (such as many of us are) will find it really great, not just good, but great.
My motto is: "Why make things great when you can go above great and get somewhere just beneath perfection, where lies insane excellence."
(This is hardly the sentiment of most people using Z9+ printers).
I'd love to have the ESP working unbridled in the Z9+. Maybe some day.
Best-
Mark
-
As Mark L. and others have noted, the Z9 makes a pretty impressive ICC profile with a mere 464 patches, and that's most likely because the Z9 "pixel control technology" is yielding a highly linearized output before the profile target gets generated and measured. The more regrettable "crippling" of the Z9, IMHO, occurred when HP also removed the control sliders in the Designjet color utility for global ink limits and Gloss Enhancer amount. These two sliders are incredibly valuable on the Z3200 when dealing with any media that aren't directly addressed as an HP media preset, allowing one to tune a base media preset with better ink limits and amount of GE applied, especially when working with third party media. Because this user control has been removed from the Z9, it's inevitable that color gamut will be lower for certain third party media when comparing the Z9 output to Z3200. Likewise, GE coverage will fall short on certain media, whereas it could be manually increased when necessary with the Z3200.
My vote is for HP to give us the global ink limit and GE adjustment sliders back in the HP Designjet utility before they tackle any improvements to the ICC profiling capability of the Z9.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
-
I've worked ad nauseam on this issue with HP Barcelona. There are several issues. Currently, they are slammed fixing bugs and problems, trying to keep up with critical issues with the Z9+. Until they have things under control, the firmware team won't do anything that isn't critical.
They're working on it - that's cool.
It's kind of understadable that ESP has found the extra being lost, focus on the major elementss, if we're lucky they'll give us the cake cherries. And if 464 is => the average manu's profile, then very pleased, particularly given the number of paper/laminate/substrate profiles I'm looking forward to making.
As an aside, and further deviation, have you (or anyone else) tried running the Z9+ through a rip? About 10% of our work goes into a Graphtec cutter...
-
Ugh. Didn’t know that. That’s serious.
In that case HP is at the very least going to have to provide a lot of custom media options or else get ready for a lot of complaints. Nobody wants unnatural bronzing and gloss differential issues with their favorite Baryta and semi gloss media.
Put the sliders back HP.
The more regrettable "crippling" of the Z9, IMHO, occurred when HP also removed the control sliders in the Designjet color utility for global ink limits and Gloss Enhancer amount. These two sliders are incredibly valuable on the Z3200 when dealing with any media that aren't directly addressed as an HP media preset, allowing one to tune a base media preset with better ink limits and amount of GE applied, especially when working with third party media. Because this user control has been removed from the Z9, it's inevitable that color gamut will be lower for certain third party media when comparing the Z9 output to Z3200. Likewise, GE coverage will fall short on certain media, whereas it could be manually increased when necessary with the Z3200.
-
Ugh. Didn’t know that. That’s serious.
In that case HP is at the very least going to have to provide a lot of custom media options or else get ready for a lot of complaints. Nobody wants unnatural bronzing and gloss differential issues with their favorite Baryta and semi gloss media.
Put the sliders back HP.
To be fair, the Z9's GE clearcoat and lack of bronzing/diff gloss is every bit as good as the competition, IMO, especially on RC media. For example, Canon doesn't allow any tuning of the clear coat ink, either, and Epson doesn't even offer it. That said, both HP and Canon have clearly optimized the clear coat inking result for RC glossy and Luster type media. Move to a fine art photo media like Canson Baryta Photographique (II?) or Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta and a somewhat heavier application of GE is often desirable. For example, I recently downloaded Hahnemuhle's provided OMS file for the Z3200PS and HN FineArt Baryta Satin and then ran a calibration and ICC profile for this ink/media combination. The GE and Global ink limit (GIL) sliders were set to their default settings for the base media preset "Fine Art Pearl photo paper - more ink". Thus, the GE slider was at 40 and GIL at 100. I then made a new profile using GIL set to 115 and GE set to 75. Gamut volume significantly increased and gloss differential/bronzing was greatly reduced, very nearly perfect which is saying a lot for this chosen media! The result is definitely noticeable both on the printed color targets as well as on a colorful pictorial image I printed via both profiles and compared side by side.
I can't do do this custom tuning on my Z9 with the current Designjet Utility (I do hope HP gives us this capability back in a future release), so it will indeed be a laborious hunt to find "best" baseline media presets when calibrating and profiling the Z9 with third party media. It will also take further exploration of those Z9 media preset choices on my part before I can say definitively how the Z9 color gamut volume compares to Z3200 overall, but those GE and GIL sliders on the Z3200 do appear to give the z3200 the color gamut edge over the Z9. That said, and as others have noted the Z9 b&w output is every bit as gorgeous as the Z3200, and the smooth gradient transitions achieved by the new "HP pixel control" screening technology are arguably superior to the Z3200 (which was pretty darn good to begin with).
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
-
There is a big difference, somehow in the pigment particle structure of all the Vivera inks and the Epson and Canon inks. Printing on rc media, especially color, there is no gloss overcoat ( or uv spraying) absolutely needed on the latter two , where with the Vivera inks it is MANDATORY that the gloss enhancer channel is used, color or black and white.
Many times I’ve run out of that GO Chanel on the Z printers, with rc or gloss semi fiber media and said WO this is bad! The semi-gloss fine art papers are worse but both are unusable. I even sprayed these prints with three coats of Premiere Art spray and they were still totally unusable. The original Lucia inks and Epson k3 VM are perfectly usable with no coating, though with bw they do look a lot better in portfolios on the gloss fiber if sprayed with a uv spray, but that is also the case with correctly printed HP Z prints which could pass for silver prints held in your hand.
Now one thing I did notice from Marks prints was when he made the profiles using the media setting - fine art pearl more ink- both bronzing and gloss differential on color and black and white were unacceptable, but we’re very nice and totally usable after the Premiere Art spraying, where when we used that media setting on the Z3200 for Platine they looked very nice with no added spraying necessary unless you were doing big prints with large areas of pure black.
So my conclusion was - don’t use the “more ink” setting on the Z9 for your media setting for Baryta type papers! I also noticed with the extended profile we made for the Z3200 using that media setting ( fine art pearl more ink)
when making large prints with pure black backgrounds, the ink pooled up, did not dry well and became blotchy. And yea, having those sliders are very nice for customizing ink limits on certain papers, especially uncoated Japanese papers, silk, etc.
I can’t comment on the more recent Lucia Pro inks because I haven’t used them, but the review on the On Site website by Scott Martin wasn’t encouraging on fiber papers. I have heard that Epson puts GO in the light gray channel. Don’t know for sure if that is true.
John
To be fair, the Z9's GE clearcoat and lack of bronzing/diff gloss is every bit as good as the competition, IMO, especially on RC media. For example, Canon doesn't allow any tuning of the clear coat ink, either, and Epson doesn't even offer it. That said, both HP and Canon have clearly optimized the clear coat inking result for RC glossy and Luster type media. Move to a fine art photo media like Canson Baryta Photographique (II?) or Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta and a somewhat heavier application of GE is often desirable. For example, I recently downloaded Hahnemuhle's provided OMS file for the Z3200PS and HN FineArt Baryta Satin and then ran a calibration and ICC profile for this ink/media combination. The GE and Global ink limit (GIL) sliders were set to their default settings for the base media preset "Fine Art Pearl photo paper - more ink". Thus, the GE slider was at 40 and GIL at 100. I then made a new profile using GIL set to 115 and GE set to 75. Gamut volume significantly increased and gloss differential/bronzing was greatly reduced, very nearly perfect which is saying a lot for this chosen media! The result is definitely noticeable both on the printed color targets as well as on a colorful pictorial image I printed via both profiles and compared side by side.
I can't do do this custom tuning on my Z9 with the current Designjet Utility (I do hope HP gives us this capability back in a future release), so it will indeed be a laborious hunt to find "best" baseline media presets when calibrating and profiling the Z9 with third party media. It will also take further exploration of those Z9 media preset choices on my part before I can say definitively how the Z9 color gamut volume compares to Z3200 overall, but those GE and GIL sliders on the Z3200 do appear to give the z3200 the color gamut edge over the Z9. That said, and as others have noted the Z9 b&w output is every bit as gorgeous as the Z3200, and the smooth gradient transitions achieved by the new "HP pixel control" screening technology are arguably superior to the Z3200 (which was pretty darn good to begin with).
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
-
Unfortunately, I didn't have the time and materials to do proper testing which requires making custom profiles using the various presets available that might (or should) apply to different papers in order to suss out the correct combinations on the Z9+. The inability to refer to a chart such as this one:
Paper Preset Chart (http://z3200.com/Working_with_other%20Papers_HP-Z3100_z3200_Printers.htm)
definitely makes things hard and requires significant testing in order to figure it all out. It's a shame because for those of us who want to really dial it in, it means having a color scientist do serious work measuring and comparing, as Mark McCormick (Aardenburg-Imaging.com) does, and doesn't get paid for. It makes it tough going. HP just hasn't provided similar documentation as they did originally with the Z31-3200 Series.
However... Straight out of the Z9+ box, get the right paper/right paper preset and make the profile using the internal spectro, and Bob's your uncle.
Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Any glossy paper is going to just be awesome. I made a custom profile using the 10,445 target for Entrada Natural and I'm thrilled with it. Like you say John - B+W is a piece of cake with the Z9+ -it doesn't need it.
Just a tip for you John:
I've figured out a way to make a blank sheet that's the size of what I want to coat (it can not be pure white, it must have something in it - (just 1 unit off will work) then I choose a paper preset such as HP Universal Instant Dry Gloss and go in (obviously using the utility) and slam the GE all the way - maxed out.
Feed whatever print you like and either put the GE coat on top of the Z9's previous GE, or print on the Z9 without GE, then run it through the Z3200 for the GE coat.
It's pretty amazing. When you want to do another, just use the job queue to do a reprint. Now the Z3200 is a Gloss Enhancer coating machine. Fannie's your aunt.
I think using the 2 machines together makes an unbeatable combination. The Z3200 is so versatile and the Z9+ is so fast - production work is amazing.
But then there are the issues Mark MHMG point out, and it's really just a firmware fix. So we're working on it, but it's difficult. People come and go at HP and there are changes in administration and policies, etc. Still, in all, I will keep my HP printers and won't buy Canon or Epson - it's that simple for me.
Robert's your father's brother.
Mark
There is a big difference, somehow in the pigment particle structure of all the Vivera inks and the Epson and Canon inks. Printing on rc media, especially color, there is no gloss overcoat ( or uv spraying) absolutely needed on the latter two , where with the Vivera inks it is MANDATORY that the gloss enhancer channel is used, color or black and white.
Many times I’ve run out of that GO Chanel on the Z printers, with rc or gloss semi fiber media and said WO this is bad! The semi-gloss fine art papers are worse but both are unusable. I even sprayed these prints with three coats of Premiere Art spray and they were still totally unusable. The original Lucia inks and Epson k3 VM are perfectly usable with no coating, though with bw they do look a lot better in portfolios on the gloss fiber if sprayed with a uv spray, but that is also the case with correctly printed HP Z prints which could pass for silver prints held in your hand.
Now one thing I did notice from Marks prints was when he made the profiles using the media setting - fine art pearl more ink- both bronzing and gloss differential on color and black and white were unacceptable, but we’re very nice and totally usable after the Premiere Art spraying, where when we used that media setting on the Z3200 for Platine they looked very nice with no added spraying necessary unless you were doing big prints with large areas of pure black.
So my conclusion was - don’t use the “more ink” setting on the Z9 for your media setting for Baryta type papers! I also noticed with the extended profile we made for the Z3200 using that media setting ( fine art pearl more ink)
when making large prints with pure black backgrounds, the ink pooled up, did not dry well and became blotchy. And yea, having those sliders are very nice for customizing ink limits on certain papers, especially uncoated Japanese papers, silk, etc.
I can’t comment on the more recent Lucia Pro inks because I haven’t used them, but the review on the On Site website by Scott Martin wasn’t encouraging on fiber papers. I have heard that Epson puts GO in the light gray channel. Don’t know for sure if that is true.
John
-
I can’t comment on the more recent Lucia Pro inks because I haven’t used them, but the review on the On Site website by Scott Martin wasn’t encouraging on fiber papers.
John
The main complaint I know from a user of the Canon Pro 4000 is that the Green ink removed to allow the Gloss Enhancer reduced the green saturation compared to the older models. That user still running an iPF8300 and iPF8400 as well. Monday I saw his prints of the 4000 and 8400 and he is right. I made him aware of the HP Z9+ and he is interested. Like I am but that mainly because the Z3200-PS / Windows 10 / Qimage Ultimate software upgrades give me headaches with the lost features and flawed interaction. I have to triple check things these days and can still be surprised. The Z3200-PS hardware remains good (with some odd hacks on my part) and there is ink for a year left here. Photokina is in May, if the crowned flu does not throw a spike in the wheels.
I do hope there is not a legal contract on the X-rite hardware in the Z9+ that does not allow higher numbers of patches. The actual profile creation software for the Z9+ is more likely HP's own development like it was in the Z3200s Color Center version (not the APS version). Anyone checked the content of a Z9+ custom printer profile on HP origin? I did not see a quality difference between the CC and APS printer profiles for the Z3200 so an improved CC software should be good enough. I read here in the thread that the calibration improved too. Today I am using ArgyllCMS for profile making with the Z3200-PS printed and scanned targets. Which is also excellent. Thanks to the two Marks for how to get that done. I'm using the
On printing GE only on a sheet. With Qimage Ultimate there probably is not more needed than making a printer profile with an RGB change of the whites to RGB 254 255 255, in Photoshop more channels has to be lifted 1 point. I used one of both methods to get GE on whites in an image with the GE Economic setting. However if nothing is printed in normal GE mode then I guess a 254 254 254 light grey image with a QU printer filter that lifts it to 254 255 255 will do the trick. I never saw any cyan dots appear and GE was put on the whites.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
Jon Cone pioneered this idea of running the gloss pigment print back through the printer a second time for a GO ( gloss optimizer coating) . Their prints done that way were the first ( over 12 years ago ) that really gave bw gloss fiber prints a perfect gelatin silver surface. It’s one thing to do that on a desktop machine ( though far from ideal ) but totally more problematic for large prints on cotton paper. I had a special 24 inch Epson set up just to apply the GO as a second run as was not happy with the concept. They have subsequently moved to a one pass method.
Problem I had was cotton dust and print scratching ruining the prints in the second pass. Does it look good, yes. Is it a pain in the ass with a high casualty rate and dragging out the time needed to do a print, yes.
I’ve been there and done that.
I understand Mark was suggesting this as a stop gap measure while one is figuring out correct media ink limit settings, but for me doing a quick spray of Premiere Art is far easier and much more durable and the Platine prints look amazing.
Given the popularity of “Baryta” type media, like Hahnemuehle, Epson, and Canson are selling so much of, and given that Platine exhibits less bronzing and gloss differential than those papers, they will figure out appropriate media settings or simply loose market share. I’m not too worried about it.
John
The main complaint I know from a user of the Canon Pro 4000 is that the Green ink removed to allow the Gloss Enhancer reduced the green saturation compared to the older models. That user still running an iPF8300 and iPF8400 as well. Monday I saw his prints of the 4000 and 8400 and he is right. I made him aware of the HP Z9+ and he is interested. Like I am but that mainly because the Z3200-PS / Windows 10 / Qimage Ultimate software upgrades give me headaches with the lost features and flawed interaction. I have to triple check things these days and can still be surprised. The Z3200-PS hardware remains good (with some odd hacks on my part) and there is ink for a year left here. Photokina is in May, if the crowned flu does not throw a spike in the wheels.
I do hope there is not a legal contract on the X-rite hardware in the Z9+ that does not allow higher numbers of patches. The actual profile creation software for the Z9+ is more likely HP's own development like it was in the Z3200s Color Center version (not the APS version). Anyone checked the content of a Z9+ custom printer profile on HP origin? I did not see a quality difference between the CC and APS printer profiles for the Z3200 so an improved CC software should be good enough. I read here in the thread that the calibration improved too. Today I am using ArgyllCMS for profile making with the Z3200-PS printed and scanned targets. Which is also excellent. Thanks to the two Marks for how to get that done. I'm using the
On printing GE only on a sheet. With Qimage Ultimate there probably is not more needed than making a printer profile with an RGB change of the whites to RGB 254 255 255, in Photoshop more channels has to be lifted 1 point. I used one of both methods to get GE on whites in an image with the GE Economic setting. However if nothing is printed in normal GE mode then I guess a 254 254 254 light grey image with a QU printer filter that lifts it to 254 255 255 will do the trick. I never saw any cyan dots appear and GE was put on the whites.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
I’ve used the GE treatment on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Pearl with much success John. Never had an issue with this method - but I did tweak the profile with starwheels up, etc.
This could present a problem with very large sheets however as you said, with dust, but perhaps canned air might prevent that. Unquestionably Premier spray would be best, but since I have chemical sensitivity from working with woodworking finishes for over 50 years I can use this method very easily in my print studio and have had much success.
I really like the precision and evenness of the coating using the Z. I did a fair amount of tweaking to get it the way I like it.
Not a fan of rattle cans but we all have our processes - when I have used Premier in the past, results were good.
M