Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: armand on February 17, 2020, 11:59:50 pm
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Soon to be announced, most essential specs are rumored and likely true.
Disappointed with the flipping screen, would have much preferred the X-T2/3 version which is friendlier towards stills. The flippy screen I guess it’s better for video which seems to be a new found love for Fuji.
Sensor is likely the same so similar stills quality. Expect better video.
Autofocus is a big question mark, I suspect we won’t know for sure until it’s out for a while.
IBIS - how effective it is will be the question mark. People are hoping for an X-H1 level despite the smaller body.
Few usability questions, likely improved overall speed thanks to the newer processors.
Larger battery - I asked for a bigger battery for years and I thought that X-H1 was the perfect opportunity. Here I almost wish they didn’t but with IBIS they probably had no choice.
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This close to announce Fuji Rumors is usually spot on with the specs. https://www.fujirumors.com/
I think the flippy screen is a nod to vloggers. Nope, I don’t VLOG or take selfies.
Unless things change at the announcement I’m quite likely to go X-T4 and battery grip. The pain will be waiting for a good L bracket from the likes of RRS or similar.
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It makes me wonder what the designers at Fuji have been smoking. I don't think the flippy-screen is a nod to vlogers, I think it is pandering to idiot reviewers who pan the current LCD articulation scheme, not realizing how ideal it is for actual "photographers." With the idiotic LCD of the Pro 3, and now this kluge of an implementation for the T-4's LCD, I'm PRAYING that if an X-H2 appears on the scene, clearer minds will prevail.
Makes my decision to pre-order the little X-100V even more "sure." And, it makes my X-H1 even more dear to the way I work. I should have grabbed a spare when they were available cheap.
Rand
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Yes, that screen choice gives me pause, the current X-T2 is the best that I’ve tried so far. I have a Oly E-M5ii with a similar screen and it’s usable but more cumbersome and slower to use for most shots. This gives me reason not to upgrade yet, the IBIS is the main temptation here (for those nice primes when the dusk starts)..
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Rand,
I think the important thing that you allude to is that there are and should be a wide range of cameras to meet everyone’s needs or desires. The manufacturers have to make their choices about what they think will sell enough to recoup their
investment. Is there a perfect camera that meets everyone’s needs/desire? Unlikely.
I’m looking forward to the X-T4 regardless of a flippy screen. I’m hoping when it’s announced it will be a worthwhile update to my X-T2.
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I don’t get this flippy screen issue. I don’t use the flippy functionality myself but it doesn’t sit in the way. Same as the rest of the audio and video functionality. For me this all is a don’t care.
In the end this generic approach benefits all of us. Fuji will be able to sell this camera to a large customer base, manufacture it in huge quantities which will keep prices reasonably low.
Regards,
Jaap.
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Given that the XT3 was a big move from Fuji towards video, it should not be a surprise to have a video oriented LCD on the XT4.
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Given that the XT3 was a big move from Fuji towards video, it should not be a surprise to have a video oriented LCD on the XT4.
They had the X-H line for a video oriented body
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Goodness, Fuji must have been making some really lemmon-flavoured cameras up until now if everyone is so, so desperate to get another new one hoping it will be better!
;-)
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Goodness, Fuji must have been making some really lemmon-flavoured cameras up until now if everyone is so, so desperate to get another new one hoping it will be better!
;-)
That's not it. We want new toys and Fuji doesn't make it easy for us to justify this.
Personally I'm quite happy with my X-T2 but I'm always looking for better. The other problems is that it's a tough world out there and if Fuji doesn't release compelling products they might not be on this market for that much longer, which means no more new cameras/lenses if our current will break and will need to be replaced.
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They had the X-H line for a video oriented body
Except that the XT3 had better video specs.
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That's not it. We want new toys and Fuji doesn't make it easy for us to justify this.
Personally I'm quite happy with my X-T2 but I'm always looking for better. The other problems is that it's a tough world out there and if Fuji doesn't release compelling products they might not be on this market for that much longer, which means no more new cameras/lenses if our current will break and will need to be replaced.
Don't panic: there will always be Leica. Leica allows takes great pictures better than any other camera except a Nikon.
:-)
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Don't panic: there will always be Leica. Leica allows takes great pictures better than any other camera except a Nikon.
For now. However, the future beckons (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=129748.msg1102057#msg1102057).
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I know the battery is the best improvement second is the IBIS and then the fact the camera is a bit larger for those reasons I in to buy a few bodies.
Wish it had a better low light sensor but the existing one will do for most images.
PS Rob I think the blur filter got you but it can be cured with dedication.
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I know the battery is the best improvement second is the IBIS and then the fact the camera is a bit larger for those reasons I in to buy a few bodies.
Wish it had a better low light sensor but the existing one will do for most images.
PS Rob I think the blur filter got you but it can be cured with dedication.
:-)
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Except that the XT3 had better video specs.
That was by Fujifilm's fault, poor planning. Not to mention that they should have introduced the larger battery with the X-H1, that was the perfect opportunity.
I saw somehow similar poor product differentiation with Olympus and their E-M1 and E-M5 lines.
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Don't panic: there will always be Leica. Leica allows takes great pictures better than any other camera except a Nikon.
:-)
Most of the time a fairy tale like this ends with “and they lived happily ever after”. ;)
Regards,
Jaap.
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Most of the time a fairy tale like this ends with “and they lived happily ever after”. ;)
Regards,
Jaap.
Then you would have to define what constitutes a fairy tale, thus being obliged to go off topic and risk upsetting the patients in the GAS ward again... not worth the risk to their health to do that.
;-)
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Fully agree on this one Rob!
Regards,
Jaap.
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Got to play with one this morning and really liked the body size/weight (not much more than an X-T2), the rear LCD, and the buffer. I am not sure how many frames it holds, but I kept the shutter going at 15 fps for maybe 10 seconds with raw+jpeg - made me go "ooh". Also, you can charge batteries without removing them, the power lead attaching to the body and charging batteries in the grip as well as the body. The grip is much bigger and makes the whole unit feel quite tall which was OK, just. he IBIS was hard to gauge and I didn't notice a lot of difference when I switched it off. Quite tempting, though I am more immediately attracted to the 35mm f1.4!
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Naysayers won't care but.... I preordered my X-T4 and associated goodies from B&H. It will be a welcome upgrade from my X-T2. Yes, I read all the specs, watched all the "previews" based on pre-production versions from all the reliable sources and my only disappointment is that COVID-19 will likely affect delivery. I have a horse race in a month that I would love to be taking the X-T4 through its paces at. The X-T2 has done a good job in the past at the race but better AF and 15fps with the X-T4would be a welcome upgrade not to mention the better batteries.
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I was quite loyal to Nikon APSC over the past years
but I have added the Fujifilm X-T4 in order to cover the wide angle range:
Fujifilm X-T4 + 10-24 /4.0
Nikon D7200 + 16-80 /2.8-4.0
2nd body D7200 + 70-200 /4.0
Fujifilm X100F
There is a lot to like with the X-T4.
Although there are some aspects which I do not find ideal:
- the ergonomics resulting from the retro style
- the X-Trans sensor and the inconvenience of having to use the Enhance Details feature in ACR.
Still I could imagine to change over completely to Fujifilm, however, the red badge XF lenses I’m interested in are not particularly lightweight. Hard to justify with the expected Nikon Z6/7s and more S-line lenses just around the corner.
Peter
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I was quite loyal to Nikon APSC over the past years
but I have added the Fujifilm X-T4 in order to cover the wide angle range:
Fujifilm X-T4 + 10-24 /4.0
Nikon D7200 + 16-80 /2.8-4.0
2nd body D7200 + 70-200 /4.0
Fujifilm X100F
There is a lot to like with the X-T4.
Although there are some aspects which I do not find ideal:
- the ergonomics resulting from the retro style
- the X-Trans sensor and the inconvenience of having to use the Enhance Details feature in ACR.
Still I could imagine to change over completely to Fujifilm, however, the red badge XF lenses I’m interested in are not particularly lightweight. Hard to justify with the expected Nikon Z6/7s and more S-line lenses just around the corner.
Peter
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Congrats on the new X-T4, it is a lovely camera. If you are new to the Fuji system, I would recommend Rico Pfirstinger's X-Secret book (Rico is for Fuji what Thom Hogan is for Nikon).
The f/2 primes are very light, and most are of excellent quality. I recommend using Iridient's X-Transformer when needed. It integrates very nicely in the LrC workflow.
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Peter,
I have the X-T4 and I'm very pleased with it.
I have a number of Fuji lenses with the Red badges being well worth it for me. Of course not all of my lenses are Red badge lenses. I moved to Fuji with the X-T1 and haven't used my Canon gear since. The XF-16-55 f/2.8 is a heavier lens but its more than equal to anything that Canon makes and its on my X-T4 more than another lens. Yes, I have the 10-24 as well and it a fine lens.
I love the retro style and find it far easier to use than my Canon cameras.
With X-Trans its best to use Iridient X-Transformer or Iridient Developer for images that need details. Adobe seems to get closer every few years on X-Trans but no cigar yet IMHO. I use LrC instead of ACR so my experience may be different.
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XT-30 is the better value right now, if you ask me. Same sensor, which is what it's all about. Save your money for a new sensor in the XT-5 or whatever down the line.
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I have the X-T4 and I'm very pleased with it.
Thanks Ron for the report back on the X-T4. I've been waiting for your impressions. I'm sticking with the X-T2 for now but very interested in the X-T4.
Is there a marked improvement in auto-focus fro T2 to T4? Eye-auto-focus?
A lot of the new features of the X-T4 are video oriented, interested in a stills photographer's impression.
- Morey
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Hello Morey,
I'm pretty much a stills photographer who once in a while will take a video.
Overall, the X-T4 seems snappier to the X-T2 for auto-focus overall but I have no way to actually measure that.
Eye auto-focus seems to be a boon and from time to time when I photographing sculptures of humans or animals it will find the eye if I have that feature turned on. COVID has made me kind of gun-shy of photographing people I don't know.
There are a lot of improvements for stills over the X-T2 but it probably depends on how and what you use the X-T4 for. I really don't notice much difference in weight and size but that's me. Below are things that make my life easier.
Here are some of my current favorites:
- dedicated Still and Movie menus
- HDR shooting where its done in camera can be a boon in certain circumstances. When I do serious HDR I'm still using bracketing exposures for use outside of the camera.
- the larger batteries are a real boon especially when I shoot sports or wildlife
- the battery grip and charger that displays the charge % is a step up IMHO
- the card slots seem more logical in their placement
- the door to the card slots is removable but I can't imagine using that feature
- the touch screen will be a boon for some but I just found myself touching it when I didn't want to so I turned it off
- IBIS is a real boon since my 16-55 f/2.8 is on the camera more that any other lens - I don't think twice now about shooting slower shutter speeds
- there are more options in the menus
- multiple exposures in camera up to 9 shots
- a big boon was getting the LensMate LM-XT4 thumb rest. I've used those since my X-T1
- getting the LensMat soft release button is yet another creature comfort for me
- it comes with a much improved camera strap that I will probably never use
- the swivel screen has its good and bad points. If you use L-brackets they might reduce the things you can do with the screen depending on your choice of bracket.
I got two L-brackets for the X-T4
- a SmallRig L-bracket that allows me to remove the left side part of the bracket as needed
- a RRS L-bracket for serious time with my tripod or monopod with my battery grip. I like to take panos with the camera in horizontal or vertical orientation.
- the shutter is very quite compared to the X-T2 and frame rate is considerably faster.
Any questions?
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Ron,
Thanks for the great list.
Weight and size is one of my concerns, I really like to compactness of the X-T2. When I tried the X-H1 I really liked its handling and the T4 seems to be edging into that size range. When the H1 was 1/2 price not too long ago, I was really tempted. I'll probably wait for the X-H2 to make a decision, Fuji Rumors I think is expecting it sometime.
I noticed that the T4 has the back buttons shifted one position counter-clockwise. AF-ON is at AE-L, AE-L is at Q, and Q is at AF-L. Did this throw you off at first? AF-ON, is back button focus the default now? On my Canon gear I used BBF all of the time, I have not been able to get accustom to it on X-T1&2. The AF-L button is in a different position on the grip from the body so I am always searching/feeling for it... just doesn't work for me.
Is there still a Boost mode with the grip? Or do the new batteries put in full time boost mode?
When saving RAW+JPG does in camera HDR save the raws and the HDR JPG?
I use Focus Bracketing, any changes to it? I could go read the online manual.. ;-)
I think I read that the IBIS works with the lens IS. Do you find this to be true or do you find yourself picking one?
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If you have not seen this article on IR, it has some really interesting info on the X-T4 IBIS and a slew of other items.
https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2020/09/04/fujifilm-interview-covid-gfx-strategy-shrinking-ibis-300K-cycle-shutter
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It seems unlikely the X-H1 will be here much before mid to late 2021. The X-T4 is selling very well and I don't know where it would slot in unless there is a new sensor in the works.
The differences between the buttons on the X-T2 and X-T4 only seemed to take a few days to lock on in my brain. YMMV
The battery grip now has "normal", "economy" and "Boost" selection.
In my recollection the in-camera HDR saves the all bracketed RAW files and the final JPG. I only tried that once or twice so my memory may be faulty. I doubt I'll be using that feature again so I just tested it and didn't commit it to memory.
Focus bracketing remains the same but better documentation in the manual as to how it works. Not the greatest, in-depth documentation we'd like to see but enough to work comfortably with it.
IBIS is a real boon. It is a huge deal with my 16-55 f/2.8. How well IBIS works with OIS lenses depends on each lens. If memory serves it depends on how large a "circle" the lens projects. Some OIS lenses will enable you to get 6 stops when using the IBIS vs. the standard 5.0 stops for some other lenses. You'll have to do some digging on that though. I've used the X-4 with IBIS on on all my Fuji lenses without any issues even the 100-400 but I wasn't testing to see how many stops I was getting.
Hope this helps,
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Thanks. Check out the IR article I linked above, it explains the IBIS dependence on the "image circle" really well.
Yeah, the X-H2 is a ways off. The X-T4 is getting such great reviews that I may just bite the bullet.
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It seems unlikely the X-H1 will be here much before mid to late 2021. The X-T4 is selling very well and I don't know where it would slot in unless there is a new sensor in the works.
The differences between the buttons on the X-T2 and X-T4 only seemed to take a few days to lock on in my brain. YMMV
The battery grip now has "normal", "economy" and "Boost" selection.
In my recollection the in-camera HDR saves the all bracketed RAW files and the final JPG. I only tried that once or twice so my memory may be faulty. I doubt I'll be using that feature again so I just tested it and didn't commit it to memory.
Focus bracketing remains the same but better documentation in the manual as to how it works. Not the greatest, in-depth documentation we'd like to see but enough to work comfortably with it.
IBIS is a real boon. It is a huge deal with my 16-55 f/2.8. How well IBIS works with OIS lenses depends on each lens. If memory serves it depends on how large a "circle" the lens projects. Some OIS lenses will enable you to get 6 stops when using the IBIS vs. the standard 5.0 stops for some other lenses. You'll have to do some digging on that though. I've used the X-4 with IBIS on on all my Fuji lenses without any issues even the 100-400 but I wasn't testing to see how many stops I was getting.
Hope this helps,
Maybe my memory is faulty but I thought that on X-T4 you can set the initial and the final focus points (and the possibly the steps), and the camera does the rest.
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Maybe my memory is faulty but I thought that on X-T4 you can set the initial and the final focus points (and the possibly the steps), and the camera does the rest.
Yes, Fuji GFX and X-T4 can do that, and it is a great feature, though the UI is not very good.
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Maybe my memory is faulty but I thought that on X-T4 you can set the initial and the final focus points (and the possibly the steps), and the camera does the rest.
Focus bracketing is improved over the X-T2 (I don't have an X-T3) but its barely mentioned in the manual (page 88). Fuji seems to ignore the feature mostly.
The best explanation I've found so far is these on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENYs7udKoz4&t=2s. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0VNCas_PoY
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Maybe my memory is faulty but I thought that on X-T4 you can set the initial and the final focus points (and the possibly the steps), and the camera does the rest.
Focus bracketing is improved over the X-T2 (I don't have an X-T3) . . .
Since the X-T3 and the X-T4 share the same processor hardware, the automatic selection of focus-stacking parameters would seem a likely candidate for a backport to the X-T3 via a future firmware upgrade.
Having said that, it didn't take me long to guess with acceptable accuracy the step value and number of frames to use for the kinds of focus-stacking I do. Attached: azelea flower (about 3 centimeters in diameter) and one of my wife's sculptures (18 inches high).
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Nice work, Chris!!!!!!
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Nice work, Chris!!!!!!
Thanks. The X-T3 made the process a lot easier than it otherwise would have been, and the X-T4 apparently makes it even more so. Not this easy, fortunately (https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=129748.msg1102057#msg1102057) (note date of post), so we may have a few years yet before the eye behind the viewfinder becomes completely redundant.
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Chris,
That's a good link about AI. I don't think AI as a threat to our photography practice anymore than I feel that AI in smart phones is challenging our pursuit of photography. With luck it may aid some functions in our cameras to improve focus, IBIS, exposure, eye tracking, etc. It's hard for me to see AI in a camera as seriously jeopardizing our creativity.
What I do see coming is more AI in post processing. I must admit that I like what I can do with Skylum Luminar 4.3. The AI is an assistant in my mind. It saves me hours of effort in PS to achieve my desired look. Its far from perfect now and its a bit of a pig on computing resources but but I'm looking forward to the advancements that are coming. I'm sure Adobe will rise to the occasion as well since they're already using AI for certain tasks.