Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: John Camp on November 06, 2019, 01:03:24 pm
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The IRS just announced the new income tax brackets.
The top rate of 37% applies to married couples filing jointly for amounts over $622,050. For single people, over $518,400. But, of course, this is not the whole truth -- because there's a federal medicare tax of 2.9% on your total income, which means for people in the top bracket, the marginal tax rate is effectively 40%.
One thing that has always somewhat bemused me is the federal politicians' pretense that state income taxes don't exist. Rich people should pay 40%! And if you push that up or down a bit, what's a couple of percentage points for rich guys? But in California, rich people pay 13% income tax, and since the recent tax bill, most of that isn't deductible from your federal tax -- so rich WAGE earners from California (as opposed to investment earners) are paying probably half of their income in taxes, with no way to shelter it. A surgeon, when you take into account collateral expenses (secretary, accountant, etc.) probably has to earn at least $1.2 million in California to take home a half million. A half million in San Francisco is doing well, but not exactly great...I'm not exactly weeping for them, but I find the situation interesting.
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I am somewhat surprised, didn't expect you to complain about taxing rich people more ;)
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The IRS just announced the new income tax brackets.
The top rate of 37% applies to married couples filing jointly for amounts over $622,050. For single people, over $518,400. But, of course, this is not the whole truth -- because there's a federal medicare tax of 2.9% on your total income, which means for people in the top bracket, the marginal tax rate is effectively 40%.
One thing that has always somewhat bemused me is the federal politicians' pretense that state income taxes don't exist. Rich people should pay 40%! And if you push that up or down a bit, what's a couple of percentage points for rich guys? But in California, rich people pay 13% income tax, and since the recent tax bill, most of that isn't deductible from your federal tax -- so rich WAGE earners from California (as opposed to investment earners) are paying probably half of their income in taxes, with no way to shelter it. A surgeon, when you take into account collateral expenses (secretary, accountant, etc.) probably has to earn at least $1.2 million in California to take home a half million. A half million in San Francisco is doing well, but not exactly great...I'm not exactly weeping for them, but I find the situation interesting.
John, can you break down the above into a simple explanation: is a federal income tax charged on top of a state income tax; in other words, do people have to pay two different sets of income taxes on the same income, as distinct from local sales taxes?
If so, seems rather unfair.
If you are a Brit living in Europe, many European countries have agreements with the UK to avoid citizens paying tax twice on the same income - once to the UK and again to the host country.
Rob
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By way of comparison, the individuals' tax bands in the UK are
up to £12,500 - nil
£12,501 to £50,000 - 20%
£50,001 to £100,000 - 40%
£100,001 to £125,000 - 60%
£125,001 to £150,000 - 40%
above £150,000 - 45%
The anomaly between £100k and £125k arises because for every £2 earned in that range, £1 of the personal allowance (the "up to £12,500" bracket) is lost. There is also National Insurance, which is paid at 12% on income between £166 and £962 per week and 2% above that, although it can be split into various sub-divisions.
Jeremy
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John, can you break down the above into a simple explanation: is a federal income tax charged on top of a state income tax; in other words, do people have to pay two different sets of income taxes on the same income, as distinct from local sales taxes?
If so, seems rather unfair.
If you are a Brit living in Europe, many European countries have agreements with the UK to avoid citizens paying tax twice on the same income - once to the UK and again to the host country.
Rob
Yes, you pay taxes on the same income twice if you live a in state with an income tax. Typically state income taxes are low compared to the federal rate; my state is ~3% and some have none. CA is an exception with its pretty high tax rate.
Perhaps one of the reasons 40% of residents on CA have considered moving out of state in a recent survey.
Lets also not forget FICA (social security tax) that is 7.65% on the first $133K; none after that. One caviot for this tax is the employer has to match the tax paid by the employee, which raises the cost of employment and also means business owners get to pay a 15.3% FICA tax on their income. There is also no brackets on this tax; only that after $133K you no longer pay it.
This is one of the many reasons I am fiscally conservative. And before anyone asks, I would, without thought, rather keep that 15.3% myself and invest it the way I see fit.
Last, we have no national VAT (sales tax), but nearly every state and some municipalities do. PA sales tax is 6% plus an additional 2% for items purchased in Philadelphia. Philadelphia also has a high sugary beverage tax, which (low and behold) a recent study found is causing a significant rise in the amount of food shopping Philadelphians do outside the city and actually produced a net loss in tax revenue from sugary/prepared food products. Who would have thought; actually everyone. Our very liberal mayor although has doubled down on it and refused to acknowledge the study.
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No personal or corporate taxes in my state, and the others are low.
One of the reasons I moved here.
Kent in SD
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Yes, state taxes are on top of federal taxes.
As Joe says, the tax rates do vary from extremely high (on rich folks) in places like New York and California, to nothing in places like Washington State and Florida, which is one reason a lot of New Yorkers move to Florida. But when there is no income tax, then that money usually has to be made up somehow to provide services. Most states have a sales tax, some quite high. Washington State has no income tax, but sales tax in Seattle, the biggest city, is 10.1% on all sales except groceries and prescription drugs ("prepared food" is not exempt.) In California, sales tax is 7.25 percent, on top of that income tax rate, and high property taxes for new buyers.
Other states have special circumstances -- Nevada has a fairly small population for its size, but it has huge money-collecting tax machines in the gambling resorts of Las Vegas and Tahoe. Florida hammers tourists (Foreigners coming to the US on vacation (Brits to Florida) are often shocked by tax add-ons to their hotel bills which can add up to 20% of the bill.)
And so on.
Americans also pay property taxes, which can be quite stiff.
I am somewhat surprised, didn't expect you to complain about taxing rich people more ;)
I'm actually quite affluent. Just not heartless.
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Ah, those poor rich Californians.
Some fun facts to show and tell (from various respected sources, 2016 to 2018 data):
The total illegal immigrant population of the US is estimated at 11.1 billion.
California has the most at 2.35 million, almost 11% of their population.
Texas is 2nd at 1.65 million.
All US Federal, state, and local government expenditures on illegal immigration is $135 billion annually.
Illegal immigrants pay an estimated 19 billion annually in taxes, leaving a net cost of $116 billion.
In California alone, illegal immigrants receive:
$14.4 billion for education.
$4 billion for healthcare.
$4.4 billion for justice and law enforcement.
$1.6 billion for general government services.
$1.0 billion for auto insurance.
$790 million for public assistance.
That is a total of over $25 billion, which is almost $2,400 per legal California household.
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... The total illegal immigrant population of the US is estimated at 11.1 billion...
Wishful thinking? ;)
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No personal or corporate taxes in my state, and the others are low.
One of the reasons I moved here.
Kent in SD
That and the winter weather! ;D
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Maryland has a graduated state income tax starting at 5% and going up to 5.75% for the rich folk. Sales tax is 6% and 9% on distilled spirits (easy to evade by going into Washington DC). We also have property taxes that are assessed by the country. Property taxes are controlled for rapid appreciation of one's home so they don't go up like a rocket ship.
My bottom line is what do you get in return. We have excellent public schools, a nice park system, libraries that are open 6-7 days a week depending on location, reliable transportation system and a bunch of other stuff. We have a symphony hall just about a mile from where we live that has concerts all the time. I feel that I get good value for the state and local taxes that I pay.
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It's also worth considering how much debt local and state authorities are carrying.
The rates for our city council are a bit higher than many other towns, but we have zero debt. Those of us here for the long term agree it gives us more resilience.
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Makes me feel that I should be happy that I'm no longer working anywhere!
They say there are only two things sure in life: death and taxes. Maybe the one causes the other.
;-)
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...They say there are only two things sure in life: death and taxes. Maybe the one causes the other.
And vice versa (inheritance tax) ;)
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Yes, you pay taxes on the same income twice if you live a in state with an income tax. Typically state income taxes are low compared to the federal rate; my state is ~3% and some have none. CA is an exception with its pretty high tax rate.
Perhaps one of the reasons 40% of residents on CA have considered moving out of state in a recent survey.
Lets also not forget FICA (social security tax) that is 7.65% on the first $133K; none after that. One caviot for this tax is the employer has to match the tax paid by the employee, which raises the cost of employment and also means business owners get to pay a 15.3% FICA tax on their income. There is also no brackets on this tax; only that after $133K you no longer pay it.
This is one of the many reasons I am fiscally conservative. And before anyone asks, I would, without thought, rather keep that 15.3% myself and invest it the way I see fit.
Last, we have no national VAT (sales tax), but nearly every state and some municipalities do. PA sales tax is 6% plus an additional 2% for items purchased in Philadelphia. Philadelphia also has a high sugary beverage tax, which (low and behold) a recent study found is causing a significant rise in the amount of food shopping Philadelphians do outside the city and actually produced a net loss in tax revenue from sugary/prepared food products. Who would have thought; actually everyone. Our very liberal mayor although has doubled down on it and refused to acknowledge the study.
Jusdt to calrify a few points. The 7.65% include 6.2% for Social Security which is capped at $133K income but also 1.45% for Medicare which is not capped at all. You pay that percentage regardless of how much income you earn, even if it's $10 million. As you stated, your employer matches the 7.65% so in effect that's potential earnings you could have made but never got, a total of 15.3%.
As a retiree getting Social Security, my Medicare payments did not stop. It actually went up. My wife and I pay thousands of dollars every year for Medicare. The government takes it out of our Social Security retiree payments. So Medicare is never "free". It's even higher for us to most as we have additional income and they charge more for Medicare as you income gets higher.
Regarding state income taxes, the reason it's legal, is because America is a Federal republic. Each state has its own government to run and services it must pay for including local police, education, building roads, public transportation,health care for its residents, parks, state militia, State Police, Fire Departments. All this is paid through State income taxes (unless the state doesn't have those taxes) plus state sales taxes, property taxes which are very high where I live in New Jersey, gasoline taxes, inheritance taxes, alcohol taxes, marijuana taxes :) etc. The Federal government taxes to pay for their costs such as the military, Medicare, Social Security, health and education subsidies to the states, foreign contributions, NASA, FBI, Customs, Interior (parks and national monuments and other Federally owned property, etc. Although the government does have tariffs, there is no national sales tax like a VAT tax. Sales Taxes in the State are for the final purchaser to pay. There are no Value Added Taxes charged at previous levels of sales such as by distributors, manufacturers, etc.
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EVen if you are in the 25% bracket, if you add 15.3% for Medicare and Social Security and let's say 7% for state income taxes, you're almost up to 50% not including states sales taxes, property taxes etc. If they pass national medicare, our taxes will go up to 70% and we'll be working for the government. No wonder the Greeks have given up and just enjoy sipping coffee all afternoon in a cafe. My last boss was Greek-American and retired to Greece. Smart guy. Maybe I'll join him. :)
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As a retiree getting Social Security, my Medicare payments did not stop. It actually went up. My wife and I pay thousands of dollars every year for Medicare. The government takes it out of our Social Security retiree payments. So Medicare is never "free". It's even higher for us to most as we have additional income and they charge more for Medicare as you income gets higher.
Almost everyone under the age of 65 doesn't understand this. You also need to figure in MediGap insurance policies so that you are not on the hook for the customary co-pays. The drug benefit is also complicated as you can have some high out of pocket expenses for specialty drugs.
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It's also worth considering how much debt local and state authorities are carrying.
The rates for our city council are a bit higher than many other towns, but we have zero debt. Those of us here for the long term agree it gives us more resilience.
It's all going to come crumbling down when it happens. Both to the Feds and to the states. Everyone is going to ask why it happened. We should all look in the mirror.
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Municipalities also have their own income tax.
In Philly we have a 4% city wage tax, so long as you are employed and/or live in the city. As a business owner, I dont pay wage tax but city privilege tax, which is also 4%. However, I only need to pay that for jobs I photograph in city limits, which is less then 10% of my projects. So I do get a break there.
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EVen if you are in the 25% bracket,
the 25% bracket is a misnomer as that is not your actual tax rate. You have to subtract all the deductions you are eligible for. For example, I'm in one of the slightly higher brackets BUT my effective tax rate is only 15%.
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Almost everyone under the age of 65 doesn't understand this. You also need to figure in MediGap insurance policies so that you are not on the hook for the customary co-pays. The drug benefit is also complicated as you can have some high out of pocket expenses for specialty drugs.
Yes, that's true. Fortunately my wife and I get these payments returned to us due to our "lucky" position of working for NYC government, she as a teacher and me in construction management for NYC schools in my last job. OF course, if NYC and/or NYS goes broke, a distinct possibility, who knows what may happen?
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The overall tax burden on individuals in the US is near the bottom for all OECD countries. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally
And, as Justice Oliver Wendell Homes said, "taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society."
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the 25% bracket is a misnomer as that is not your actual tax rate. You have to subtract all the deductions you are eligible for. For example, I'm in one of the slightly higher brackets BUT my effective tax rate is only 15%.
That;s true. I was basing that on every additional "marginal" dollar you earn after the deduction. In other words, if you got a $10,000 raise, then it's almost 50% because you already applied your deductions which for me and you living in high income and property taxed states are not so hot anymore since we can't deduct them any longer dollar for dollar. Trump screwed us. And he's my guy, the rat. :)
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The overall tax burden on individuals in the US is near the bottom for all OECD countries. https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally
And, as Justice Oliver Wendell Homes said, "taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society."
It's a meaningless analysis. Most people pay state's sales taxes and everyone pays Social security and Medicare withholding on their income. If you don;t include those amounts, the comparison has no value. The comparison is used by liberals and those socialists to try to fool people that their taxes are not high. Anyone who looks at their pay stub and property tax bills knows what they're really paying. But some people get fooled by statistics that lie.
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That and the winter weather! ;D
I love winter, it's my favorite time of year! I could never move to a place that didn't have four seasons. In summer wife & I often go to places that still have it so we can visit.
Kent in SD
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I love winter, it's my favorite time of year! I could never move to a place that didn't have four seasons. In summer wife & I often go to places that still have it so we can visit.
Kent in SD
But I thought South Dakota's 4 seasons were winter, winter, winter, other. :)
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Last Week Tonight: You Saved the Best For Last (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYusNNldesc)
I know, I know it's about ND but I could not resist.
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But I thought South Dakota's 4 seasons were winter, winter, winter, other. :)
In can hit 40 below in winter but can also hit 105 in summer. (Extreme in SD while I've lived here has been -54 F and +112 F). So there is winter, there is summer and for about a week between the two there is a spring and fall too.
Kent in SD
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In can hit 40 below in winter but can also hit 105 in summer. (Extreme in SD while I've lived here has been -54 F and +112 F). So there is winter, there is summer and for about a week between the two there is a spring and fall too.
Kent in SD
Well, if you have to put up with that kind of weather, they shouldn't charge taxes at all. :)
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And vice versa (inheritance tax) ;)
Numero uno reason I want to move. I love my kids.
Rob
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Something that would make many taxpayers happy:
1. the building of many more prisons;
2. the removal of sentences that are not deterrent enough;
3. no second chances;
4. the obligation of criminals to make financial restitution to victims, not fines that go to finance who knows what.
Some hope.
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Here are the new tax rates. This is only Federal government. States tax rates are additional.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/06/tax-rates-and-income-brackets-for-2020.html
Standard deductions.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/06/the-2020-standard-deduction-amounts.html
What's interesting is that these amounts go up every year because of inflation. The problem with that is you get pushed into higher tax brackets even though you income is not increasing. The only thing increasing is the amount of inflated worthless currency you get but with the same purchasing power. Meanwhile, you pay higher taxes with no increase in actual salary. Thank you Federal Reserve.
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It's a meaningless analysis. Most people pay state's sales taxes and everyone pays Social security and Medicare withholding on their income. If you don;t include those amounts, the comparison has no value. The comparison is used by liberals and those socialists to try to fool people that their taxes are not high. Anyone who looks at their pay stub and property tax bills knows what they're really paying. But some people get fooled by statistics that lie.
Those amounts *were* included. It's the total tax burden, not just income tax.
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... 2. the removal of sentences that are not deterrent enough;...
I think California wanted to heed your advice, but something must have gotten lost in translation: they removed prosecution as the deterrent - if someone steels items worth less than $950 from you, don’t bother calling the police, prosecutors will automatically drop the charge. People are calmly walking into a store, picking a tv, microwave, etc., and equally calmly walking out without paying.
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Those amounts *were* included. It's the total tax burden, not just income tax.
Yes you're right. I missed they included all taxes. But the total percentage is against GDP. How does the 26% US average relate to personal tax percentages of each individual? Since we are a progressive tax setup, averages don;t really mean anything. One person could be paying little income taxes and someone else a whole lot. Some states have no state income taxes like Florida. Other states like California have taxes up to 13%. Property taxes are a huge tax in some state like in New Jersey where I live. But much cheaper in other states. Is this similar in other countries?
Using averages reminds me of the joke of the guy who drowned in a lake that had an average depth of 2 feet. He just happened to fall into the 15 foot spot. :)
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What's interesting is that these amounts go up every year because of inflation. The problem with that is you get pushed into higher tax brackets even though you income is not increasing. The only thing increasing is the amount of inflated worthless currency you get but with the same purchasing power. Meanwhile, you pay higher taxes with no increase in actual salary. Thank you Federal Reserve.
the Alternate Minimum Tax which was repealed was much worse. I don't know why you are harping on inflation, it has not been going up much at all. What do you want the Federal Reserve to do, cut interest rates, raise them???? they don't have much of an effect on consumer prices.
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The Fed is again printing 60 billion dollars in greenbacks every month. That's inflation and will be reflected in higher prices and less purchasing power of the dollar.
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The Fed is again printing 60 billion dollars in greenbacks every month. That's inflation and will be reflected in higher prices and less purchasing power of the dollar.
But your Social Security payout is adjusted for inflation and your investments should be outpacing inflation (at least they are doing this under President Trump!!!) so you will come out ahead of the game.
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But your Social Security payout is adjusted for inflation and your investments should be outpacing inflation (at least they are doing this under President Trump!!!) so you will come out ahead of the game.
$100 in 1970 was worth $45 in 1982. That's a 55% drop in value of the dollar in 12 years. Let's hope that doesn;t happen again. But even smaller inflation amounts hurt. SS won;t pick up all increase. Pensions, if you fortunate to have one, may not pick up any increase. You get shoved into higher income tax brackets with no benefit. 401K's better get a higher percentage of increase or you lose. If the stock market tanks again, you could take another bath. Who wants to be too exposed at our age when you';re a senior? There may not be any time to recover like if you're still pretty young. If you're still working, salary increases always lag inflation caused cost increases. It's a hidden tax like a thief that robs you in the middle of the night. Nothing good about it. It's the main reason that people haven't had real incomes go up in decades. That and taxes.
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It's the main reason that people haven't had real incomes go up in decades. That and taxes.
I think that's an exaggeration. They play a part but I don't believe they were the main reasons.
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I think the main reason that (average) real incomes haven't increased much is because of the decline of the unionized industrial/manufacturing economy here, and the rise of the non-unionized service economy. Almost all heavily unionized fields, outside government (teachers and others) have declined.
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I think that's an exaggeration. They play a part but I don't believe they were the main reasons.
What are?
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I think the main reason that (average) real incomes haven't increased much is because of the decline of the unionized industrial/manufacturing economy here, and the rise of the non-unionized service economy. Almost all heavily unionized fields, outside government (teachers and others) have declined.
Isn't that what Trump claims is the problem as well? That all our manufacturing jobs have gone to China and other countries?
On the other hand lower prices because labor is cheaper overseas have given us products that we couldn't afford to make so cheap over here such as TVs cars electronics cameras Etc. That improves our purchasing power.
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I think the main reason that (average) real incomes haven't increased much is because of the decline of the unionized industrial/manufacturing economy here, and the rise of the non-unionized service economy. Almost all heavily unionized fields, outside government (teachers and others) have declined.
Indeed, and what can a teacher do if the unions that represent those teachers are unable to secure higher salaries? There's not a whole host of alternatives for a teacher who wants to quit.
As for any photographers left in the industry - what do they do when gigs refuse to pay the once going rate? And as the gigs themselves vanish, it becomes even more difficult to survive. For all the various causes already discussed to death, it has turned into a race to the bottom.
I really think this will spread to all the professions apart from, perhaps, medicine. Even law will be simplified into the ticking of boxes, with the resulting blunt instument being the the only available answer to every dispute.
This may sound a bit OTT, but I'm not so sure. As I have made no new pictures for a while, I have not a lot to do with time other than listen to music and surf for interesting interviews. When my imagination runs dry and I can't think of one more photographer whose work I want to investigate anew, I switch on tv. Looking at that for a couple of hours is alarmingly depressing - of the BBC's offerings, only BBC4 seems to give me anything I might want to watch. The other channels are mind-bending drivel. Breakfast news has turned into a chat show for the kiddies. I sometimes run through everything the remote can click into life, and if that's what the world is looking forward to watching in its free time, there is little hope left for mankind, and every reason to think that humanity is racing towards a new serfdom, if not its own erasure.
You know, they - whoever "they" are - say one should never look back, only ahead. I disagree: only by looking in the mirror can one see what's been tossed aside in favour of false improvement. Just think of the High Street in your small town, and the hive of activity that is was during past decades. Of course, this only works if you were around in those lost decades; if not, you may imagine it was always as it is today: chartity shops; closed shops; betting shops and the surviving pub.
Rob
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Isn't that what Trump claims is the problem as well? That all our manufacturing jobs have gone to China and other countries?
On the other hand lower prices because labor is cheaper overseas have given us products that we couldn't afford to make so cheap over here such as TVs cars electronics cameras Etc. That improves our purchasing power.
I thought you believed in the free market.
Besides which, it's only the low-level grunt manufacturing jobs that have disappeared from what used to be called the developed world (a term that's no longer valid but people don't want to admit it). The US still manufactures a lot; according to Wiki it's still second in the world after China in manufacturing output, although it's hard to know what and how exactly that's measured. This is such an odd situation because it used to be considered a good thing to get rid of lousy jobs. In some countries, it is considered to be part of a government's function to think about how that affects the population and to think about ways to minimize the general pain. But if the government is not neutral, and acts as if it's the marketing arm of Amazon, then worrying about the fate of its citizens is not so important.
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I thought you believed in the free market.
Besides which, it's only the low-level grunt manufacturing jobs that have disappeared from what used to be called the developed world (a term that's no longer valid but people don't want to admit it). The US still manufactures a lot; according to Wiki it's still second in the world after China in manufacturing output, although it's hard to know what and how exactly that's measured. This is such an odd situation because it used to be considered a good thing to get rid of lousy jobs. In some countries, it is considered to be part of a government's function to think about how that affects the population and to think about ways to minimize the general pain. But if the government is not neutral, and acts as if it's the marketing arm of Amazon, then worrying about the fate of its citizens is not so important.
I do believe in a free market. But not theft. When China steals trade secrets, patents and intellectual property, including our photos, and goes into business with that info without paying for it, that's not a "free" market. No one should be "free" to steal stuff. And it's not just the "grunt" manufacturing. High level electronics, chips, autos, aircraft, you name it. At a value of $400-500 billion a year. That's an amount equal to our entire imports from China annually. And that's just from America. They steal from you too. If Trump is able to get them to stop, an unlikely situation so dependent they are on it, the whole world would benefit including you. You should be cheering on Trump. There's a lot at stake for all of us.
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Indeed, and what can a teacher do if the unions that represent those teachers are unable to secure higher salaries? There's not a whole host of alternatives for a teacher who wants to quit.
As for any photographers left in the industry - what do they do when gigs refuse to pay the once going rate? And as the gigs themselves vanish, it becomes even more difficult to survive. For all the various causes already discussed to death, it has turned into a race to the bottom.
I really think this will spread to all the professions apart from, perhaps, medicine. Even law will be simplified into the ticking of boxes, with the resulting blunt instument being the the only available answer to every dispute.
This may sound a bit OTT, but I'm not so sure. As I have made no new pictures for a while, I have not a lot to do with time other than listen to music and surf for interesting interviews. When my imagination runs dry and I can't think of one more photographer whose work I want to investigate anew, I switch on tv. Looking at that for a couple of hours is alarmingly depressing - of the BBC's offerings, only BBC4 seems to give me anything I might want to watch. The other channels are mind-bending drivel. Breakfast news has turned into a chat show for the kiddies. I sometimes run through everything the remote can click into life, and if that's what the world is looking forward to watching in its free time, there is little hope left for mankind, and every reason to think that humanity is racing towards a new serfdom, if not its own erasure.
You know, they - whoever "they" are - say one should never look back, only ahead. I disagree: only by looking in the mirror can one see what's been tossed aside in favour of false improvement. Just think of the High Street in your small town, and the hive of activity that is was during past decades. Of course, this only works if you were around in those lost decades; if not, you may imagine it was always as it is today: chartity shops; closed shops; betting shops and the surviving pub.
Rob
Two things:
1. Teachers (in the US) belong to powerful unions which have shown a willingness to strike, no matter what happens to the children; and they are huge money-raising machines and vote-producing machines for the politicians who (guess what) decide on teacher's salaries and benefits. Iowa, the first of the states to indicate a preference for Presidential candidates, is a caucus state, rather than a primary/voting state, where people get together in caucuses to decide who they want as a candidate. Guess which group has the organizational strength and time to dominate these caucuses? And they do, which is why Elizabeth Warren is running so far out in front in Iowa. In many small towns in the US, a married couple who are both teachers are often among the most affluent people in town, with decent salaries for both, plus almost unparalleled benefits. In addition, American teachers work an average of about 180-190 days a year, while the average worker in other fields puts in 245 or so. Most public school teachers have the entire summer off. My family happens to be full of teachers, and I often looked upon them with envy, as I put in another sixty-hour week. The whole Elizabeth Warren boomlet pretty much relies on teacher support, because teachers ask, essentially, "Why shouldn't everybody have what we do? Wouldn't that be fair?" You'd have to answer that question on your own. :-)
2. Medicine is being caught in the same race to the bottom. It's not the job it was in the glory days of the 60s-90s. I think more and more people are coming to believe that computers are actually a curse. Ask yourself this: half the population (conventionally, if not actually) has IQs lower than 100. What are they supposed to do? At one time, there was honorable work for people who were not smart, or somehow different. Now, not so much. I know a woman (a teacher, in fact) who decided she didn't want to pay a lawyer for her mutually-consented divorce. She downloaded some forms, she and her husband filled them out, and shazam, they were divorced (in California) untouched by lawyerly hands. So even the professions are being snuck up upon.
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Teaching. My daughter and her hubby are both teachers; I think they would be green with envy to read what you have written here! As far as I can tell without prying, life continues to be reasonably comfortable, yet still a struggle against the odds. I have no real idea what they take home, but the last figure I remember being bandied about in the news was something around twenty-six grand (pounds) p.a. for the average grade, which would make me very happy indeed in my retirement, but then I wouldn't be prepared to do the work, even if I could.
Yes, the holidays are long, but then the working week is not as the week of somebody who clocks off at five; many nights are sewn up with preparatory work for the following day, marking etc. in much the same way as was my own life, where many nights were spent printing and getting out the stuff I'd shot earlier as, indeed, were some weekends. But doing it for your own business makes it feel very different. Self-employment makes many things feel different, as you know; some of the hardships are accepted as measure of your own ability to catch the gigs, so they come with a built-in anaesthetic to reality. Self-employment and self-deception are often close cousins. Living alone, or with a very understanding spouse, is de rigueur!
But the highs are something special.
Rob
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Teachers... the amount of sh*t they are enduring from students and parents these days, let alone school administration always fearful of the next lawsuit, is not worth even twice their salaries.
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Teachers... the amount of sh*t they are enduring from students and parents these days, let alone school administration always fearful of the next lawsuit, is not worth even twice their salaries.
Teachers do get abused, in a *few* places. Most don't have to endure anything like what is represented by those cartoons. My brother-in-law was a basketball coach until fairly recently, and if he caught somebody on the team using an obscenity (which would be a pretty mild social violation) he would carefully explain that a few such words, in an appropriate context, probably wouldn't hurt anyone, but a school wasn't appropriate -- and he'd give them detention. With full support of the school board. The horror stories you see in the news are just that -- horror stories. Some schools have gone decades without a horror story. Not talking about Chicago, of course.
Edit: I was a news reporter for half of my life, but one of the things that discourages me most about the media is the frequent suggestion that horror stories are the common story -- that if you have an insane principal somewhere who is abusing children, then this is what school is like -- even though there are tens of thousands of schools where children aren't abused by the principal. We have stories like "Our failing schools" when most schools are doing quite well, thank you, and kids are learning stuff and the girls aren't getting knocked up all the time and sending porno shots of themselves to the other kids, etc. Probably the worst thing the media does is characterize "black people" as if they all live in ghettoes where they're daily abused by white people. That does a terrible disservice to blacks -- the current black unemployment rate in the US is 5.5%, but would you know that if you watched TV news programs? Or listened to nothing but hip-hop music? Ninety percent of black people aren't much different in their life styles and aspirations than 90% of white people, but that's nothing you'd learn from our media, liberal and conservative alike. Surveys have shown that when fearful whites are asked what scares them, it's strangers, usually black strangers, doing violence to them, and this is true even in states like North Dakota, where blacks are about as common fried okra.
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... one of the things that discourages me most about the media is the frequent suggestion that horror stories are the common story...
John, I agree with your post above. It is otherwise known as availability bias, i.e., just because those news are more readily available (and bad news is the news, good news isn't), people tend to assume it is the norm or at least give it a bigger weighting than it deserves.
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I do believe in a free market. But not theft. When China steals trade secrets, patents and intellectual property, including our photos, and goes into business with that info without paying for it, that's not a "free" market. No one should be "free" to steal stuff. And it's not just the "grunt" manufacturing. High level electronics, chips, autos, aircraft, you name it. At a value of $400-500 billion a year. That's an amount equal to our entire imports from China annually. And that's just from America. They steal from you too. If Trump is able to get them to stop, an unlikely situation so dependent they are on it, the whole world would benefit including you. You should be cheering on Trump. There's a lot at stake for all of us.
Remember that IBM sold its PC business to a Chinese manufacturer and that many US computer hardware companies manufacture over in China. Nobody forced them to do this. China do make computer chips but US based companies still dominate the high end processor chips. China may be manufacturing some cars and some of these are done by US companies but I don't think they are being exported to the US. Is there a Chinese aircraft industry? For commercial aircraft, Boeing and Airbus are the two leaders followed by Bombadier who make small regional jets.
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Remember that IBM sold its PC business to a Chinese manufacturer and that many US computer hardware companies manufacture over in China. Nobody forced them to do this. China do make computer chips but US based companies still dominate the high end processor chips. China may be manufacturing some cars and some of these are done by US companies but I don't think they are being exported to the US. Is there a Chinese aircraft industry? For commercial aircraft, Boeing and Airbus are the two leaders followed by Bombadier who make small regional jets.
China's ambition is to get into airplane manufacturing in the next few years.
China is expected to overtake the U.S. as the world’s largest aviation market by 2022. Boeing has predicted that China will need to buy 7,000 more planes worth $1.1 trillion by 2036. While Boeing and Airbus jostle to supply those planes, China has also been trying to build its own models, the latest of which is the Comac C919.
Though China’s leadership has stopped talking about the “Made in China 2025” industrial development plan, one of its targets was to supply more than 10% of the domestic market with Chinese planes by 2025.
https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-boeing-aviation-20190327-story.html
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Remember that IBM sold its PC business to a Chinese manufacturer and that many US computer hardware companies manufacture over in China. Nobody forced them to do this. China do make computer chips but US based companies still dominate the high end processor chips. China may be manufacturing some cars and some of these are done by US companies but I don't think they are being exported to the US. Is there a Chinese aircraft industry? For commercial aircraft, Boeing and Airbus are the two leaders followed by Bombadier who make small regional jets.
I believe you're too nonchalant about this. The DoD is concerned that they have jumped over us in military technology in many areas. Getting a jump on technology by stealing it and then developing industries to compete militarily and commercially is a big problem. Leaving aside security concerns, they destroy American and other countries' industries through this process. If you were a commercial photographer, would you want them to steal your photos and use them without compensation? I don;t understand why you would support their practices? No one is suggesting they shouldn't compete legitimately. I welcome that. It's the stealing and other predatory practices that we shouldn't put up with.
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I believe you're too nonchalant about this. The DoD is concerned that they have jumped over us in military technology in many areas. Getting a jump on technology by stealing it and then developing industries to compete militarily and commercially is a big problem. Leaving aside security concerns, they destroy American and other countries' industries through this process. If you were a commercial photographer, would you want them to steal your photos and use them without compensation? I don;t understand why you would support their practices? No one is suggesting they shouldn't compete legitimately. I welcome that. It's the stealing and other predatory practices that we shouldn't put up with.
Manufactured good that require high labor inputs naturally migrate to the region with the lowest cost. America lost the textile, clothing, shoe, and lots of other industries over the last 30-40 years. Furniture, except for local niche manufacturers, is all but gone from this country (great book to read about the battle with China on this topic is Beth Macy's "Factory Man" that chronicles one of the Bassett brother's fight to get unfavored trade status against China for being ripped off). There is question that China is doing some bad stuff but US companies are never going to ignore the largest consumer market in the world. It is a difficult dynamic for the US government to address.
Maybe China does get into the aircraft business but this is not an easy task as it is highly regulated. Because of the recent Boeing mishap it is likely to become even more regulated. China may be able to build aircraft to their own standards for domestic use but international certification is much more difficult. China is not showing much innovation in the semi-conductor industry with Qualcomm, Intel, and AMD doing the major innovation in operating chips. Most other designed computer stuff is done here in the US, Japan or Taiwan. China remains a low cost assembler of computer products but as of now not a major innovator. Consider high quality photo printers: 2 Japanese and 1 US company.
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They steal designs and then compete.
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They steal designs and then compete.
It's a complicated story and if you read the book I noted above you will see how difficult it is to prove this. Bassett little help from the other furniture companies as they had outsourced production whereas Bassett's company did not.
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What's interesting is that their stealing in a way hurts them. They are always one step behind the real innovators because they're busy copying. I'd they stopped copying, they'd breakout with new concepts and design like the Japanese. They seem to be moving in that direction.
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They are always one step behind the real innovators because they're busy copying. I'd they stopped copying, they'd breakout with new concepts and design like the Japanese.
This assumes they can't do two things at once, a rather dubious proposition and example of shallow thinking.
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This assumes they can't do two things at once, a rather dubious proposition and example of shallow thinking.
Maybe I should blow my brains out.
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China does cheat... Images of MY paintings are on several sites and ready to be painted in any size you like, and they use my name. I have shut some of them down, only to be back another day. Endless process.
Peter
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Sorry to hear that Peter. So if someone is selling limited editions of their photos or anything, China can destroy their livelihood with their cheap knockoffs. And sto many people here think the American government is wrong trying to stop that.
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Sorry to hear that Peter. So if someone is selling limited editions of their photos or anything, China can destroy their livelihood with their cheap knockoffs. And sto many people here think the American government is wrong trying to stop that.
How true...and it's not just me, many friends face this issue everyday.
Peter
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How true...and it's not just me, many friends face this issue everyday.
Peter
It's the other side of the Internet.
The only time it doesn't matter is when you give up. Or die, which is probably much the same point.
;-(