Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: ghostwind on October 15, 2019, 11:20:57 am
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So I got this monitor almost a week ago, with the SVII software. Monitor is on the latest R1.302 firmware, and SVII is the latest 1.1.40 version. I'm using a 15" 2019 MacBook Pro to connect to it via USB-C. I have 2 X-Rite i1Display Pro devices I used to calibrate it to Native Gamut, 100 cd/㎡, D65, and gamma 2.2. I also tried a few other settings, including Andrew Rodney's file from the large thread on Delta-Es. No matter what, the best I can get is an average Delta-E of 1.33 and a max of 2.05. This is in dark, controlled room, no leaking light to the sensor, etc. I read that large thread, and understand I can exchange it and try another. But first I want to know what the following settings do and if they may impact calibration results:
1. Uniformity - this is set to 5 by default. I can turn it to OFF/0, but SVII automatically changes it back to 5.
2. Color Stabilizer - this is ON by default and I tried calibrating with it ON and OFF. No difference.
So seeing they make no difference with calibration results in SVII, keep them at their defaults?
Also, I noticed that after the calibration is done, if I got into the monitor's OSD menu, it has the current input assigned to a "SpectraViewII" preset, and that makes sense, but the numbers of the luminance, white point, and the RGB primaries don't match the calibration results shown in SVII. Why wouldn't they?
Any input or clarification on these would be greatly appreciated.
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I can only tell you I tried everything under the Sun on the two I had and nothing made a difference.
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The user manual states that the connection should be via a DisplayPort cable.
I seem to recall reading that connection via HDMI or usb would result in display/calibration issues.
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I can only tell you I tried everything under the Sun on the two I had and nothing made a difference.
How large were your Delta-Es? Did you switch to another monitor?
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The user manual states that the connection should be via a DisplayPort cable.
I seem to recall reading that connection via HDMI or usb would result in display/calibration issues.
Yes, that is correct, and I had read that. It only applies to HDMI, not USB-C. USB-C functions same as DisplayPort, basically USB-C is DP over USB. In any case, just to be sure, I also ran a separate connection with a DP cable. Same thing.
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How large were your Delta-Es? Did you switch to another monitor?
You replied to the thread I started where I posted my results.
First monitor was 3+, second 2+. And I stated after that I moved on to Eizo 2730 and am happy, though poorer.
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You replied to the thread I started where I posted my results.
First monitor was 3+, second 2+. And I stated after that I moved on to Eizo 2730 and am happy, though poorer.
Yes, I realized that after. I was "speed" reading :) I do wonder what acceptable Delta-Es are - what is good enough? Mine aren't horrible if you look, but I see others' and wonder. What are you getting with the Eizo? How do you find the software in comparison to SVII? In terms of ease of use / features that is. I'm tempted to go the CG279x route, but not sure what would be different in hardware and software.
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A couple of thoughts.
Different manufacturers may measure the Delta E differently, so a comparison between NEC and Eizo may not be useful.
Anything below 3 for the Delta E is supposed to be good, but I would expect a new monitor to be way below that. My old PA 241 has an average of .96 and a max of 1.36. I'd be quite happy with that for a main monitor. My main (a PA 272) has an average of .7 and a max of .98.
But, this is with the "include dark values" box unchecked in the colour tracking window. I don't think there is much useful information to be had by including that data. Uncheck the box and see what the new values are.
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Yes, I realized that after. I was "speed" reading :) I do wonder what acceptable Delta-Es are - what is good enough? Mine aren't horrible if you look, but I see others' and wonder. What are you getting with the Eizo? How do you find the software in comparison to SVII? In terms of ease of use / features that is. I'm tempted to go the CG279x route, but not sure what would be different in hardware and software.
Eizo is much less than 1 for Adobe RGB except for the lowest near-black measurement which is 1.4. Average deltaE 2000 = 0.23, white = 0.11. Eizo software is much better and has automatic self calibrating sensor. Eizo lets you switch between color modes very quickly and calibration is faster than NEC (no long delays between readings required). NEC had some better connectivity options and seemed more solidly built, but their software is old and clunky.
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A couple of thoughts.
Different manufacturers may measure the Delta E differently, so a comparison between NEC and Eizo may not be useful.
Anything below 3 for the Delta E is supposed to be good, but I would expect a new monitor to be way below that. My old PA 241 has an average of .96 and a max of 1.36. I'd be quite happy with that for a main monitor. My main (a PA 272) has an average of .7 and a max of .98.
But, this is with the "include dark values" box unchecked in the colour tracking window. I don't think there is much useful information to be had by including that data. Uncheck the box and see what the new values are.
Yes, I suppose a direct comparison is not good, if SVII uses Delta-E 94 and Eizo Delta-E 2000. The question then is what is are acceptable values for both? NEC will say under 3 you are OK. But is that the case? Judging from the numbers others are having, including you, it doesn't seem OK. I did uncheck the "include dark values", but the difference is only lower by .1.
I'm pondering if I should just keep it in case NEC releases further firmware or SVII updates that make the results better (assuming here it's a software issue and not a hardware one), exchange it for another (assuming it's the hardware), or get an Eizo, where I see less complaints. Again, my numbers are not that bad, but it's a new monitor and should be better.
BTW, does anyone know what the "Uniformity" and "Color Stabilizier" options do, how it's best to set them ,etc - see OP. Also why doesn't the OSD preset report back the same values as SVII (also in the OP)? All of this leads me to suspect it's something with the firmware/software and OS, but yet for many it's working just fine.
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Eizo is much less than 1 for Adobe RGB except for the lowest near-black measurement which is 1.4. Average deltaE 2000 = 0.23, white = 0.11. Eizo software is much better and has automatic self calibrating sensor. Eizo lets you switch between color modes very quickly and calibration is faster than NEC (no long delays between readings required). NEC had some better connectivity options and seemed more solidly built, but their software is old and clunky.
Yes seems that way - at least from reading the Color Navigator 7 notes. I checked, and Color Navigator 7 won't run on macOS Catalina (which I'm using) until December. NEC's SVII latest version, from 9/9/19 does run however.
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Delta E 94 and 2000 are not that different. If it is bad on one it will be on the other.
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NEC say they use a mix of luminance and colour values to calculate the Delta E. I don't know how Eizo work it. At any rate, I would return a PA series NEC monitor if its max was over 1 when new.
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NEC say they use a mix of luminance and colour values to calculate the Delta E. I don't know how Eizo work it. At any rate, I would return a PA series NEC monitor if its max was over 1 when new.
I will order a new one, and see how it compares to my current one. And I will keep the better one, but if results are the same, then I will put it down to software issues and maybe keep it after talking to NEC or get an Eizo.
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NEC say they use a mix of luminance and colour values to calculate the Delta E. I don't know how Eizo work it. At any rate, I would return a PA series NEC monitor if its max was over 1 when new.
I have no idea what NEC uses, but EIZO lets you select the ISO 12646 validation target or you can load a custom validation target.
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I have no idea what NEC uses, but EIZO lets you select the ISO 12646 validation target or you can load a custom validation target.
Quick question. On the Eizo, once you calibrate a picture preset with the Eizo software (say sRGB for example), can you then choose that and use it on any input by using just the OSD buttons? Say if I want to plug in the HDMI output from a HD camera, and I want to have the calibrated sRGB preset active, not the factory sRGB one. With the NEC, I cannot do this - it needs the SVII software to change calibration presets. So unless I have a computer plugged into the input, that input will not be able to use a calibrated preset.
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good question. The OSD knows about m custom target at least and you can select the targets for it, so I think in principle so as long is it is RGB. I haven't tried it with a different input though.
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So I got another monitor from B&H and after it acclimated and warmed up, I was able to calibrate it consistently with an average Delta-E of 0.76 and maximum of 1.32. So I'm happy and will return the first monitor!
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So I got another monitor from B&H and after it acclimated and warmed up, I was able to calibrate it consistently with an average Delta-E of 0.76 and maximum of 1.32. So I'm happy and will return the first monitor!
Good news! Congrats.
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So I got another monitor from B&H and after it acclimated and warmed up, I was able to calibrate it consistently with an average Delta-E of 0.76 and maximum of 1.32. So I'm happy and will return the first monitor!
For the purpose of clarity, what were the parameters of the target which you calibrated that yielded those values? The achieved values depend on the target parameters, as well as whether Include Dark Values is checked.
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For the purpose of clarity, what were the parameters of the target which you calibrated that yielded those values? The achieved values depend on the target parameters, as well as whether Include Dark Values is checked.
Same as in my initial post. I also did a few more all at D65 (sRGB, 2.2 gamma, 100nits, Adobe RGB, 2.2 gamma, 100nits, and sRGB/Rec.709, 2.4 gamma, 100nits), all with similar Delta-Es. There’s definitely monitor to monitor variance, as my calibration methodology was consistent.