Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => Landscape Showcase => Topic started by: maddogmurph on October 09, 2019, 01:29:16 am

Title: Revealing Forces
Post by: maddogmurph on October 09, 2019, 01:29:16 am
Finally got through most of my shots from hiking in Nepal. Pushing them out slowly... but much more quickly now.

These mountains create their own weather. They also create an unpredictable weather pattern that can change in the beat of a heart or two. But the beauty of these peaks can really only be appreciated in person. It's actually baffling to me how splendid these areas are and how few people inhabit them as their home. It's hard to argue with waking up to these kind of views.

Patagonia Fjords Trip:
https://www.depictionsofbeauty.com/Photo-Tours
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on October 09, 2019, 03:55:28 am
Fantastic, keep them coming.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: francois on October 09, 2019, 04:53:03 am
Spectacular, one gets the feeling of the height in this shot.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: stamper on October 09, 2019, 07:42:31 am
A very fine image. First class processing.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on October 09, 2019, 09:26:41 am
Fantastic, keep them coming.
+1.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on October 09, 2019, 11:59:19 am
Very dramatic and very enjoyable.

Can I suggest (very humbly) that it might be even better if you could somehow remove that big dark triangle in the lower left corner, something like this?

And please forgive me for tampering with your work, but I did it just by way of trying to show what I am thinking.

But none the less, a great shot  :)

Dave
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: sdwilsonsct on October 09, 2019, 12:44:35 pm
Powerful.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: armand on October 09, 2019, 10:29:06 pm
This is stunning! And I like it the way it is, needs no cropping.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on October 10, 2019, 06:24:49 am
I do prefer the cropped version.
(Sorry, Armand! And Russ!!)
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: stamper on October 10, 2019, 07:19:27 am
This is stunning! And I like it the way it is, needs no cropping.

Yes.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: RSL on October 10, 2019, 07:55:56 am
Don't mess with it, Dog. The croppers always are out in force. They bang away and then, in Photoshop, see if they can come up with something worthwhile by cropping out a chunk. Your picture is stunning just as it is. Fine framing.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: thierrylegros396 on October 10, 2019, 12:49:18 pm
I've waited before giving my point of view.

Yes, I like both version.

But the title is Revealing Forces, so in that case, the first is more suitable.

Have a Nice Day.

Thierry
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on October 10, 2019, 03:55:53 pm
...The croppers always are out in force. They bang away and then, in Photoshop, see if they can come up with something worthwhile by cropping out a chunk...

*Yawn*
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: maddogmurph on October 10, 2019, 07:00:32 pm
Very dramatic and very enjoyable.

Can I suggest (very humbly) that it might be even better if you could somehow remove that big dark triangle in the lower left corner, something like this?

And please forgive me for tampering with your work, but I did it just by way of trying to show what I am thinking.

But none the less, a great shot  :)

Dave

It's already a crop. I liked the color harmony, but in the compression to JPG from raw I lost a lot of the detail. I need to either crop it like you suggest, or rework it so the color/detail comes out in that lower left part as intended.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on October 10, 2019, 10:26:37 pm
I'd love to see it with more detail in the dark triangle.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: rabanito on October 11, 2019, 05:23:46 am
Don't mess with it, Dog. The croppers always are out in force. They bang away and then, in Photoshop, see if they can come up with something worthwhile by cropping out a chunk.

Hahaha.
I myself don't
I crop in Lightroom-
It is non-destructive and so I can have many tries for transforming my garbage in a Beautiful Work of Art
 ;)
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on October 11, 2019, 10:24:40 am
It's already a crop. I liked the color harmony, but in the compression to JPG from raw I lost a lot of the detail. I need to either crop it like you suggest, or rework it so the color/detail comes out in that lower left part as intended.

Well said maddogmurph - my philosophy with landscape photography I believe, is therefore the same as yours and that we should be happy and willing to do, whatever we need to do to get a result that satisfies us and our 'artistic' goals and to take with a pinch of salt what limitations others might wish to place upon us for whatever reason (Russ is also a cropper BTW, even though I am sure he will now try to say he isn't, because I still remember at least one cropped image he showed us on here when he got his new Nikon :P).

The art of Landscape photography should be something we fully enjoy in all its parts and not something that we do under a 'hair shirt' type of mentality. Creativity is all about selection and the distillation of what we choose to include in the final piece and what we choose to crop out (or frame out) of the world around us and always has been, from the moment you pick up your camera and choose what lens to use before walking out the door, to the place where you choose to hang the final print. In other words, the art of landscape photography is all about choices and selections, of what you choose to leave in and what you choose to leave out.

Now in Russ's defence, I know what he is getting at and that we should always try to frame the shot as the final print in the camera, because it is good practice and shows the photographers has not only developed a very keen eye, but has also become a master of his/her craft. I get it and I don't disagree with this sentiment at all really. But if I am out and I see a shot that I would prefer to shoot in a square format and my camera does not allow for that option (which the A7R2 doesn't annoyingly), then I am going to take the shot the best way I can and crop it afterwards the best way I can, because the square crop was my intention and selection right from the start.

I can also see what Russ means about it being wrong to try and crop out a good shot from a bad one, or cropping into a shot so deeply and to such a point, where you can produce something that you didn't even see in the first place and had absolutely no idea was there, which again I agree is bad practice, or at least a practice that will not help you to advance your technique out in the field, or your skills, or your artistic eye etc.

So my final word on this subject is this - we should always do as much as we can to create the final image out in the field and yes if we are able to frame the world perfectly before pressing the shutter release, then that is a the ultimate thing we can do and something we should all aim to achieve. But if you are not there yet and you need to shoot with a little bit of wiggle room around the edges and select/crop out the final shot later in post, then so be it, just as long as you are enjoying yourself and learning, but perhaps on the understanding that if you do wish to reach that peak of artistic fulfilment, then you also have to be willing to admit to yourself, especially if you find you are having to crop every single shot that you take, that you have not arrived at that point just yet and still have a little further to go, but at least you are hopefully heading in the right direction by realising this.

God, it sounds like I am delivering a sermon now doesn't it? Well I am obsessed with landscape photography, so what else am I going to do  ;D

Dave
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: armand on October 11, 2019, 10:33:49 am
I crop without problems, I just donít think it needs cropping. It balances better and it gives a much better sense of scale. A little more detail in the dark patch is optional.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: rabanito on October 11, 2019, 02:45:08 pm
... on the understanding that if you do wish to reach that peak of artistic fulfilment, then you also have to be willing to admit to yourself, especially if you find you are having to crop every single shot that you take, that you have not arrived at that point just yet and still have a little further to go, but at least you are hopefully heading in the right direction by realising this.


I disagree with that.
I crop in principle every picture. I do it in my mind before I press the shutter but the best composition fits seldom, say, exactly 4x5 o 2x3 or 5x3.
Maybe, maybe not.
I don't see the world necessarily in one of those formats. It is different each time.
It's the photographer who should determine the aspect - and the composition inside the frame - not Nikon or Hasselblad or any other manufacturer.

Just MHO

Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on October 12, 2019, 01:58:47 pm
I disagree with that.
I crop in principle every picture. I do it in my mind before I press the shutter but the best composition fits seldom, say, exactly 4x5 o 2x3 or 5x3.
Maybe, maybe not.
I don't see the world necessarily in one of those formats. It is different each time.
It's the photographer who should determine the aspect - and the composition inside the frame - not Nikon or Hasselblad or any other manufacturer.

Just MHO

But that is what I am saying here Rabanito:

Now in Russ's defence, I know what he is getting at and that we should always try to frame the shot as the final print in the camera, because it is good practice and shows the photographers has not only developed a very keen eye, but has also become a master of his/her craft. I get it and I don't disagree with this sentiment at all really. But if I am out and I see a shot that I would prefer to shoot in a square format and my camera does not allow for that option (which the A7R2 doesn't annoyingly), then I am going to take the shot the best way I can and crop it afterwards the best way I can, because the square crop was my intention and selection right from the start.

I am only trying to expllain what I think Russ is saying and that we should try to utilise every pixel of the frame in our compositions, but which obviously also excludes the cropping for format or aspect ration etc..

Sorry, but I thought I had explained that in my overly looooong winded reply  :D

Dave
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: rabanito on October 12, 2019, 03:56:35 pm
But that is what I am saying here Rabanito:

I am only trying to expllain what I think Russ is saying and that we should try to utilise every pixel of the frame in our compositions, but which obviously also excludes the cropping for format or aspect ration etc..

Sorry, but I thought I had explained that in my overly looooong winded reply  :D

Dave


Uh-oh. :(
Sometimes my fingers are faster than my brain.
 Glad to have to take everything back.
My apologies :)
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: RSL on October 12, 2019, 04:21:56 pm
Believe it or not, Dave, I agree with you 100%, and I'm not tied forever to the 3 x 2 aspect ratio of 35mm film as HCB was. In Korea and later I worked with 2 1/4 x 2 1/4, and framed appropriately. Later on I worked with 4 x 5 and 8 x 10 view cameras, and framed for them. I currently use my Nikons at 3 x 2, and my favorite Olympus Pen-F at 4 x 3, and frame appropriately. But, as you point out, the camera you have in your hands doesn't always frame as you want it to, so you make your shot realizing that you're going to crop. That's not what I object to.

I object to the guy who sees something he likes and bangs away, probably putting what he saw at the center of his frame without any consideration for the geometry of the resulting picture or where everything else is in relation to the object of his affections, then tries to frame the picture properly by cropping. The result frequently is less than satisfactory and obviously is a crop. As you say, you want as many of the pixels in your camera as possible in on the result, but you also need to think about geometry when you frame.

All that is why I said, in "On Street Photography" (https://luminous-landscape.com/on-street-photography): "First, you need to practice composition to the point where it becomes intuitive. You donít have time to line up all those elements of geometry with, say, the rule of thirds. You have to see it whole in your viewfinder without stopping to analyze, to rely on your unconscious and to react instinctively." Once you learn to do that you'll rarely need to crop.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: maddogmurph on October 14, 2019, 03:10:21 am
No Crop
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on October 14, 2019, 06:20:45 am
No Crop
Now this version has enough detail so the dark triangle works.
Just right.
Title: Re: Revealing Forces
Post by: armand on October 14, 2019, 09:37:48 am
No Crop

I prefer your first version.
This would work too, I would lighten the foreground to have more contrast between the warm, welcoming foreground, and the cold, aloof background.  I'm a sucker for contrasting elements in a moody photo though.
In the first version the foreground occupies a much smaller portion and you can get away without that much detail in it.