Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: dchurch on November 21, 2006, 08:18:11 pm
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I have a new R4800 that just arrived today, still in box. Just today I learned of the IPF 5000. Switching papers is easier and the unit is less expensive. Trying to decide if I should dive into the 4800 or return it and get a canon ipf5000. Any feedback appreciated. Thanks.
DC
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I have a new R4800 that just arrived today, still in box. Just today I learned of the IPF 5000. Switching papers is easier and the unit is less expensive. Trying to decide if I should dive into the 4800 or return it and get a canon ipf5000. Any feedback appreciated. Thanks.
DC
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addendum: I have read the reviews of ipf5000, but would like to get a couple more opinions please? Thanks
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You must consider what characteristics are important to you. Like switching between matte papers and glossy papers, etc etc.. Make that list, then perhaps post it here and feedback will be more to the point. I choose the iPF5000 when it cost $500 more over the Epson, and so far I have been able to deal with any issue that has presented itself and continued to make great prints - matte and glossy.
Gary
addendum: I have read the reviews of ipf5000, but would like to get a couple more opinions please? Thanks
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You must consider what characteristics are important to you. Like switching between matte papers and glossy papers, etc etc.. Make that list, then perhaps post it here and feedback will be more to the point. I choose the iPF5000 when it cost $500 more over the Epson, and so far I have been able to deal with any issue that has presented itself and continued to make great prints - matte and glossy.
Gary
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Thanks for the feedback so far. Guess I need to add mor info. I will be making b/w prints from scans of my older b/w negs until I am done editing and working through all those. Then to print new digital files from my Nikon d200. I do not want to hassle with inks in the switching from paper to paper very badly, but am not sure how many paper switches I will be making as I am a newbie. Do I need to buy something like Imageprint for the canon since it has solved the ink switching papaer switching issue?
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The Epson is nearly two years old technology and the Canon is much newer - means more these days than it used to with all of the advances. I've used the 4800 for 18 months and just sold it in favor of the Canon - I think you will see a lot of folks doing just that, especially with the big drop in the price of the Canon. The Epson was a fine printer in its day, but I think that day is coming to an end...
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The Epson is nearly two years old technology and the Canon is much newer - means more these days than it used to with all of the advances. I've used the 4800 for 18 months and just sold it in favor of the Canon - I think you will see a lot of folks doing just that, especially with the big drop in the price of the Canon. The Epson was a fine printer in its day, but I think that day is coming to an end...
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Thank you, Tim! Anyone else have an opinion on this? Thanks.
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I have a new R4800 that just arrived today, still in box. Just today I learned of the IPF 5000. Switching papers is easier and the unit is less expensive. Trying to decide if I should dive into the 4800 or return it and get a canon ipf5000. Any feedback appreciated. Thanks.
DC
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How much of a factor would the ink tank size make? The Canon has smaller ink tanks, right?
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You must consider what characteristics are important to you. Like switching between matte papers and glossy papers, etc etc.. Make that list, then perhaps post it here and feedback will be more to the point. I choose the iPF5000 when it cost $500 more over the Epson, and so far I have been able to deal with any issue that has presented itself and continued to make great prints - matte and glossy.
Gary
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Not sure from your reply which one you bought. ?>>??? Thanks
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seems like a lot of 5000 odds and ends in this whole section (not just this thread). Am I seeing a problematic machine or is it just new techy stuff---nevertheless there are problems. How does all that compare to the 4800 which has been around awhile. ???
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seems like a lot of 5000 odds and ends in this whole section (not just this thread). Am I seeing a problematic machine or is it just new techy stuff---nevertheless there are problems. How does all that compare to the 4800 which has been around awhile. ???
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Gary bought the IPF5000, as did I. While there are some issues with the driver and documentation, dealing with clogging on the Epsons is no picnic either, and can consume both ink (=$) and time. Since I have only had my machine for 3 days and haven't had time to do more than setup and read some of the manual, I can't comment in any meaningful way. Michael Reichmann, publisher of the Luminous Landscape web site posted that he finally sold his 4800 and kept the IPF5000. That ought to tell you something, but may not be relevant to your specific needs.
--John
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Gary bought the IPF5000, as did I. While there are some issues with the driver and documentation, dealing with clogging on the Epsons is no picnic either, and can consume both ink (=$) and time. Since I have only had my machine for 3 days and haven't had time to do more than setup and read some of the manual, I can't comment in any meaningful way. Michael Reichmann, publisher of the Luminous Landscape web site posted that he finally sold his 4800 and kept the IPF5000. That ought to tell you something, but may not be relevant to your specific needs.
--John
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Thanks I will send back the R4800
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Someone had asked about the ink tank size for the Canon vs. Epson. You can get both the 110ml and 220ml for the Epson, although the 220ml carts do not fit inside the machine completely and stick out. The canon uses 130ml carts. One thing to keep in mind is that you do have to factor in more then just the cost of the ink carts - like how much ink is wasted/flushed out due to clogs, and how much ink is actually used on each print.
No doubt the next generation of Epsons will do a better of job of this and I expect them to leap over the Canons and HPs, which is the cycle we are in at the moment - each new printer being better then the others, which is exactly what you would expect. You can do better if you wait, but then if you wait you are missing out on the current technology. All of these printers will have little glitches here and there, all will produce some mighty fine prints, as good or better than what we could ever make in the wet darkroom, and they will last a lot longer too.
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Does anyone know if Canon will release a 24" (or even 36") version soon? Or if Epson are coming with replacements? Else I am going for a 7800..
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Does anyone know if Canon will release a 24" (or even 36") version soon? Or if Epson are coming with replacements? Else I am going for a 7800..
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There's only speculation, no facts. The people with the facts cannot legally say yet.
That said, there is the Canon iPF8000 which is 44". Probably bigger than what you're looking for.
There are also the new HP Z printers (I believe it's 24" and 44"; someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Eric
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I have a new R4800 that just arrived today, still in box. Just today I learned of the IPF 5000. Switching papers is easier and the unit is less expensive. Trying to decide if I should dive into the 4800 or return it and get a canon ipf5000. Any feedback appreciated. Thanks.
DC
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Hi dchurch, I'll trade you my 5000 for the 4800. Don't buy the canon yet too many problems palderm
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Hi dchurch, I'll trade you my 5000 for the 4800. Don't buy the canon yet too many problems palderm
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to palderm: I am really confused now. Reading up till last night I had decided to send back my 4800. You now say too many problems with 5000. ???? I guess they all have problems, its just which set of problems do I want. What kind of problems dop you have with your 5000? I'm getting the imoression thew software is weak and poorly thought out.
dchurch
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I've been using the iPF5000 for a couple of weeks, and yes, the software could use some work, but by no means is it unworkable. Quite frankly, the prospects of having to deal with the clogging issues the 4800 is know for and swapping black ink far outweigh the problems with the iPF5000. The bottom line is that from a hardware perspective, the 5000 is pretty much flawless (using current standards). Any problems can (and probably will) be solved through software updates.
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I've been using the iPF5000 for a couple of weeks, and yes, the software could use some work, but by no means is it unworkable. Quite frankly, the prospects of having to deal with the clogging issues the 4800 is know for and swapping black ink far outweigh the problems with the iPF5000. The bottom line is that from a hardware perspective, the 5000 is pretty much flawless (using current standards). Any problems can (and probably will) be solved through software updates.
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Thanks for the feedback! That is very helpful.
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Thanks for the feedback! That is very helpful.
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I bought the Canon at near full price and I'm not regretting it. With the current rebate and lower pricing (I believe you can now find the printer for about $1300 with free shipping)... it is a bargain in my opinion. Like everyone else has said, there is a bit of a learning curve, but once you master it, it WORKS very well. I had serious downtime with nozzle problems with my previous Epson 4000's. NO MORE. I have been out of the country twice for more than two weeks at a time during the last 6 weeks, have returned to studio and started printing again without ANY nozzle issues at all. Output quality is very good, especially with the 16 bit plugin and appropriate files.
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It sounds like you plan on doing a lot of B&W, in which case you may prefer the output of the 4800. The K3 system is fantastic, and the ability to control the tonality in the driver is very elegant.
The Canon is a nice piece of hardware, but their software is quite lacking. The documentation is dreadful, the Web site awful, and the various media types and settings perplexing. You will find a wide arsenal of ICC profiles for the Epson on-line, but the Canon offerings will be slim. But if you can beat it into submission the Canon can produce some beautiful prints. I would not call it any better than the Epson, although the ability to print on both glossy and matte medias without switching black inks is attractive (if you print on a variety of substrates that is)
It is also my sense that the Canon is not the ideal printer for a beginner. I think the Epson is a lot simpler in its approach, and there is a lot of knowledge on-line about how to use them effectively.
My $.02
-eric-
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It sounds like you plan on doing a lot of B&W, in which case you may prefer the output of the 4800. The K3 system is fantastic, and the ability to control the tonality in the driver is very elegant.
The Canon is a nice piece of hardware, but their software is quite lacking. The documentation is dreadful, the Web site awful, and the various media types and settings perplexing. You will find a wide arsenal of ICC profiles for the Epson on-line, but the Canon offerings will be slim. But if you can beat it into submission the Canon can produce some beautiful prints. I would not call it any better than the Epson, although the ability to print on both glossy and matte medias without switching black inks is attractive (if you print on a variety of substrates that is)
It is also my sense that the Canon is not the ideal printer for a beginner. I think the Epson is a lot simpler in its approach, and there is a lot of knowledge on-line about how to use them effectively.
My $.02
Thanks, Eric. I am getting dizzy because their are many opinions. Yes, I like to do b/w. I am concerned about the nozzle clogging issue with 4800 however. And it deos sound like the Canon software issues could be a real b_____. I may be away from my studio for weeks at a time and not sure how to deal with that implication, for any printer. Is there a way to deal with that? Sometimes when I get frustrated with this decisoion I think I oughtta just stay old fashioned and do the darkroom thing. With enlargers going for a song and considering my digital upfront investment I could have one hell of a traditional setup, maybe even a processing machine that would run my rc b/w papers. Just thoughts. Thanks again.
-eric-
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This reflects my experience with the printer also and I also paid full price back in June. I flondered about a week or so getting the right way to approach the media choices etc, and after that it has been pretty easy - like stated earlier elsewhere here in this forum, just learning the new language of this particular technology. There are people who just - one has to wonder - maybe creating their own problems stemming from their perspectives/work approach/beliefs and therefore not seeing the path to great results. To me it was a no brainer in June and still is now - if you want a printer now - the Canon is a smarter choice than the Epson 4800. However good luck with what experience you create.
Gary
I bought the Canon at near full price and I'm not regretting it. With the current rebate and lower pricing (I believe you can now find the printer for about $1300 with free shipping)... it is a bargain in my opinion. Like everyone else has said, there is a bit of a learning curve, but once you master it, it WORKS very well. I had serious downtime with nozzle problems with my previous Epson 4000's. NO MORE. I have been out of the country twice for more than two weeks at a time during the last 6 weeks, have returned to studio and started printing again without ANY nozzle issues at all. Output quality is very good, especially with the 16 bit plugin and appropriate files.
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Have you considered the new Epson 3800 coming by the end off this month?
I don't want to confuse you but this could be 'n option if you do not need roll paper. ( but the 3800 can handle up to 17 x 37 inch!) This is the difference between the 4800 and 3800 and the fact that the 3800 has 80 ml carts and the 4800 110 or 210 ml. AND the 3800 has the state off the art technology!
Henk
PS I am waiting
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This reflects my experience with the printer also and I also paid full price back in June. I flondered about a week or so getting the right way to approach the media choices etc, and after that it has been pretty easy - like stated earlier elsewhere here in this forum, just learning the new language of this particular technology. There are people who just - one has to wonder - maybe creating their own problems stemming from their perspectives/work approach/beliefs and therefore not seeing the path to great results. To me it was a no brainer in June and still is now - if you want a printer now - the Canon is a smarter choice than the Epson 4800. However good luck with what experience you create.
Gary
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Thanks! Good point about people creating their own problems. I had thought of thast before but my thought got lost in the confusion. I am arriving at a decsiosn. This forum is so cool. I can metwork with many minds to do something I cannot figure out myself. This really is anew age. I will be standardizing quite a bit on papaer and technique. I will be doing this for myself after many years of being away from pgotography. I used to do my own work, then got into commercial and away from my stuff, got frustrated with boring commercial work and neglected my own work. Anyway now I am devoting my time to my work and the image is primary, not necessarily the ultimate print. I see my work as more for printed page and books, and if I sell some prints great. I will be doing exhibits to generate interest in my books and vice versa.
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Inkjetart.com does a comparison of the epson and canon printers. You may find that helpful. They also have a write up on the epson 3800 which is coming soon.
I have a 4800, am an avid amateur which means printing comes in waves and it sits idle quite a bit. I have had very little problem with clogging. Nothing a cleaning routine won't fix. I don't switch back and forth between matte and glossy.
Mike
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Inkjetart.com does a comparison of the epson and canon printers. You may find that helpful. They also have a write up on the epson 3800 which is coming soon.
I have a 4800, am an avid amateur which means printing comes in waves and it sits idle quite a bit. I have had very little problem with clogging. Nothing a cleaning routine won't fix. I don't switch back and forth between matte and glossy.
Mike
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I asked for samle prints from the 3800, 2400, 9180 and Canon IPF 5000. To my eye the Canon was the closest to my screen. However VISTEK and Henrys have removed the Canon from their respective web sites so availability in Toronto may be somewhat problematic.
Given how much Canon equipment Vistek sells, the disappearance is somewhat disconcerting.
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Like Tony, I just returned from a 10-day absence and when I turned the printer on it started printing immediately with no clogs. The ability to have two different papers loaded at the same time with no black switching was the reason I held out for this printer over the Epsons.
A canon rep I spent time with for a week lately told me to expect new firmware by the end of the year. I would also expect new software to go with the new firmware.
The 24" model should be appearing shortly.
The printer does have its share of software idiosyncrasies but none of them are show stoppers. I would certainly look for new releases of software over the next couple months.
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Vistek has a 5000 on display in the third floor and Henry's has a boxed 5000 in their showroom.
I'll have an update to my iPF5000 review soon. Bottom line is that it's a superb printer. I've now done something over 700 large prints, have never had a clog, and ink use is very low. Image quality is superb.
I also have been told to expect a firmware update before the end of the year.
Michael