Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => Street Showcase => Topic started by: Martin Kristiansen on August 23, 2019, 04:47:05 am
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The auction area of the fish market in Zanzibar. I had to sneak this unfortunately.
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Martin, why did it have to be stolen?
It seems quite an inoffensive situation, but I think a few cats clocked you...
Saw a docu. last night on the BBC about intelligence and the octopus: it was an eye-opener. These creatures are supposed to be violently solitary, but they showed what appeared to be a community of them living together in harmony. I was distracted with trying to ensure I put the right drops into the right eyes at the time, but I think the location was Zanzibar, though not prepared to say it on oath!
Much of the programme was taken up with the extraordinary relationship the appeared to develop between the octopus and the people who keep one in a large tank at home; might be a heavy case of anthropomorphism, but the thing really seemed to know what was going down outside its glass tank; it interacted with the people and learned memory tricks too. Remarkable.
There used to be a fish market in Glasgow, Scotland; I wonder if it exists today? Stamper might know.
Rob
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Hey Rob. I was told no photos. One of those situations where no one minds you using a cell phone but pick up a camera and everyone flips out.
I won’t eat octopus. Those things are smart. I once watched a person catch one in Mauritius. It was horrific. Nonsensical I know but there you have it.
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Hey Rob. I was told no photos. One of those situations where no one minds you using a cell phone but pick up a camera and everyone flips out.
I won’t eat octopus. Those things are smart. I once watched a person catch one in Mauritius. It was horrific. Nonsensical I know but there you have it.
I understand. They catch them sometimes on the quayside near the yacht club; ink covers much of the pavement.
But hey, they taste great!
;-)
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Octopus salad with samphire and other pickled baby vegetables, downed with a glass or three of Ouzo.
Scrummy!
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Martin, respect, it takes balls to shoot when you have been told not to.
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But look at that freaking quality from a phone!!!
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But look at that freaking quality from a phone!!!
No phone I’m afraid. I developed a technique where I hold the camera one handed vertically and can still find the back focus button. It was very hit and miss to start with as I’m not a natural with that style but i am OK with it now. Shot on a Sony A9
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So, this is a crop from a vertical frame?
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You are correct Slobodan. I don’t shoot a lot of verticals in my normal style but when I shoot like this I can pull lots of horizontals out of the vertical and since I’m usually looking where I’m not shooting framing can be quite off. I haven’t found a comfortable way to hold a camera horizontally when shooting like this.
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You are correct Slobodan. I don’t shoot a lot of verticals in my normal style but when I shoot like this I can pull lots of horizontals out of the vertical and since I’m usually looking where I’m not shooting framing can be quite off. I haven’t found a comfortable way to hold a camera horizontally when shooting like this.
There's something available out of Pocket Wizard, I think, where the thing that sits in the camera accessory slot can be triggered to release the shutter rather than fire a flash. Holding the firing unit in your hand in a pocket would not be noticed if the shutter itself is a quiet one.
At the end of the day, the call is whether or not the shot is worth the risks.
Rob
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There's something available out of Pocket Wizard, I think, where the thing that sits in the camera accessory slot can be triggered to release the shutter rather than fire a flash. Holding the firing unit in your hand in a pocket would not be noticed if the shutter itself is a quiet one.
At the end of the day, the call is whether or not the shot is worth the risks.
Rob
I should look into that. I could put the camera around my neck. I hardly ever use a neck strap but I could do that. I prefer wrist straps
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You ended up with a fine picture, Martin, no matter the obstacles.
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Thank you Russ. Much appreciated.
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Pocket Wizard or better value for the money: Hahnel Capture.
It is an interesting image. For sure.
Martin, the peoples you have on the image, are that Muslims? Muslims have an issue with being photographed, and I believe it is they're right not liked to be photographed.
For myself, I decided to stop shooting if it is clearly not allowed or if peoples not allow to be photographed. This personal decision has to see with European privacy regulation and the lack of local complementary regulation. In certain European countries, we (non journalist photographers) have notting legal in hand to cover GDPR and privacy regulation.
Apart from a legal constraint, I also believe we (photographers) should have an ethical conduct. I'm not sure if taking sneaky shots is still within my ethical code.
I think there is a difference in taking a shot on the street with peoples, maybe not aware of the picture taken, and going into a room where it is not allowed to shoot, and take pictures with kind of spionage techniques.
I recently had a discussion with a third generation immigrant muslim who made objection because I was shooting on the street with my GRII, not concealed, but from the chest. It was a very cumbersome discussion with no outcome, but it made me thinking. Although I found his arguments an example of clashing cultures, I put myself in his place and by doing so, I could see some reasonability in his arguments, arguments not from a photographers point of view, but from a person on the streets view. That's where I started to rethink my ethical code.
There is a paradigma shift ongoing in the western collective mind set. Few days ago, a girl posted a videoclip on instagram. Some militants of the communist party burning a flag of the nationalist Flemish party. The president of that nationalist party reposted this video, including the girls insta account name, on twitter. Huge consternation, a president of a political party was doxxing a young girl.
Some say: what's the problem? The girl posted the video in first place, she could expect somebody reposting it.
A Belgian university professor was asked his opinion and in short he said: The president of the national party infringed the girl's privacy because by reposting the instagram message, he stole the girls control over here social media content........
That's where we are going, and we should better deal with it, I'm afraid.
Ivo
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But it is a great picture! 8) 8)
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Pocket Wizard or better value for the money: Hahnel Capture.
It is an interesting image. For sure.
Martin, the peoples you have on the image, are that Muslims? Muslims have an issue with being photographed, and I believe it is they're right not liked to be photographed.
For myself, I decided to stop shooting if it is clearly not allowed or if peoples not allow to be photographed. This personal decision has to see with European privacy regulation and the lack of local complementary regulation. In certain European countries, we (non journalist photographers) have notting legal in hand to cover GDPR and privacy regulation.
Apart from a legal constraint, I also believe we (photographers) should have an ethical conduct. I'm not sure if taking sneaky shots is still within my ethical code.
I think there is a difference in taking a shot on the street with peoples, maybe not aware of the picture taken, and going into a room where it is not allowed to shoot, and take pictures with kind of spionage techniques.
I recently had a discussion with a third generation immigrant muslim who made objection because I was shooting on the street with my GRII, not concealed, but from the chest. It was a very cumbersome discussion with no outcome, but it made me thinking. Although I found his arguments an example of clashing cultures, I put myself in his place and by doing so, I could see some reasonability in his arguments, arguments not from a photographers point of view, but from a person on the streets view. That's where I started to rethink my ethical code.
There is a paradigma shift ongoing in the western collective mind set. Few days ago, a girl posted a videoclip on instagram. Some militants of the communist party burning a flag of the nationalist Flemish party. The president of that nationalist party reposted this video, including the girls insta account name, on twitter. Huge consternation, a president of a political party was doxxing a young girl.
Some say: what's the problem? The girl posted the video in first place, she could expect somebody reposting it.
A Belgian university professor was asked his opinion and in short he said: The president of the national party infringed the girl's privacy because by reposting the instagram message, he stole the girls control over here social media content........
That's where we are going, and we should better deal with it, I'm afraid.
Ivo
I have actually given this a lot of thought.
Yes most people are Muslims in this country. Perhaps they do have a rule about photography but it seems to be when it suits them. They take photographs of each other and they are frequently seen taking selfies. So how does this rule work exactly? Seems disingenuous to say it’s against photography unless they do it. Also as a tourist you will see local people sneaking photos of you if you are in a area where there are not many tourists.
Also you are permitted to take photos in the vegetable and spice markets which are basically just in another hall alongside the meat and fish sections. Is it then a religious thing or is it some other reason. If it was religious would it not apply all over and even in town? Personally I think it is not permitted because they do not what the rather dodgy hygiene standards to be exposed.
I had many instances of people coming to me and asking me to take photos of them and their friends. I will post an example of this. I also photographed a photographer in Dar es Salaam doing good business photographing people and giving them a print to take away. In fact I even paid to have a photo taken by him.
Fundamentally I think if you are in a public place and the laws of the country don’t outright ban photography then you are fair game. Obviously I will never take a photo that makes a person look to be drinking when they don’t drink for example but a man selling fish sells fish and there is the photo.
The brand of Islam followed in East Africa seems generally quite relaxed. I asked one local man, for example, if the people are Muslim why do I see so many drunk people. He said the drinking thing is just a recommendation, you can drink if you want to.
I am actually not at all convinced about the injunction that prohibits photography in Islam. I should do research, but Bin Laden was a bit of a poster boy for Muslim Fundamentalist extremism yet he had no issues going on TV and making pronouncements. Explain that to me.
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I was asked to take this photo
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Local people paying to have their photo taken
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I was asked to take this photo
You better take this down quickly.
The kid with the "London" skirt is going to fuel speculation about another wave of migrants!
;-)
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You better take this down quickly.
The kid with the "London" skirt is going to fuel speculation about another wave of migrants!
;-)
I’m sure she bought it on her last shopping trip to Harrods.
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Sometimes there are double standards, such as in Varanasi where photographing the funeral pyres on the burning ghats is strictly forbidden, unless of course one gives a 'donation' via the priest to the 'hospices': fair enough, but I'd rather give a donation directly to the hospice and refrain from taking photos. In other countries such as Morocco the mere presence of a camera can cause apoplexy: extreme care is needed.
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...Muslims have an issue with being photographed, and I believe it is they're right not liked to be photographed.
For myself, I decided to stop shooting...
I understand your plight... not much left to shoot in Belgium... or Europe. Landscape photography, here we come! ;)
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I have actually given this a lot of thought.
Yes most people are Muslims in this country. Perhaps they do have a rule about photography but it seems to be when it suits them. They take photographs of each other and they are frequently seen taking selfies. So how does this rule work exactly? Seems disingenuous to say it’s against photography unless they do it. Also as a tourist you will see local people sneaking photos of you if you are in a area where there are not many tourists.
Also you are permitted to take photos in the vegetable and spice markets which are basically just in another hall alongside the meat and fish sections. Is it then a religious thing or is it some other reason. If it was religious would it not apply all over and even in town? Personally I think it is not permitted because they do not what the rather dodgy hygiene standards to be exposed.
I had many instances of people coming to me and asking me to take photos of them and their friends. I will post an example of this. I also photographed a photographer in Dar es Salaam doing good business photographing people and giving them a print to take away. In fact I even paid to have a photo taken by him.
Fundamentally I think if you are in a public place and the laws of the country don’t outright ban photography then you are fair game. Obviously I will never take a photo that makes a person look to be drinking when they don’t drink for example but a man selling fish sells fish and there is the photo.
The brand of Islam followed in East Africa seems generally quite relaxed. I asked one local man, for example, if the people are Muslim why do I see so many drunk people. He said the drinking thing is just a recommendation, you can drink if you want to.
I am actually not at all convinced about the injunction that prohibits photography in Islam. I should do research, but Bin Laden was a bit of a poster boy for Muslim Fundamentalist extremism yet he had no issues going on TV and making pronouncements. Explain that to me.
Martin, I hope you are not offended by my post. I did not post it with the intention to give comment on your decision to make the picture.
You are right, it is difficult to understand why some muslim have issues being photographed and other don't mind. Maybe it has to see with the local sensitivities here in Belgium. Maybe it has to do how fundamentalistic the peoples profess their faith. I remember visiting the Fatih quarter in Istanbul. I was strongly advised not to take my camera with me for mentioned reasons.....
I think, shoot or not, is something to assess at the moment and depending on the situation and the uniqueness of what's happening in front of the lens....
Kind regards
Ivo
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Sometimes there are double standards, such as in Varanasi where photographing the funeral pyres on the burning ghats is strictly forbidden, unless of course one gives a 'donation' via the priest to the 'hospices': fair enough, but I'd rather give a donation directly to the hospice and refrain from taking photos. In other countries such as Morocco the mere presence of a camera can cause apoplexy: extreme care is needed.
Yes,
Mostly the north African (read Moroccan) immigrants make trouble about being photographed.
I don't like it, but it's reality....
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Martin, I hope you are not offended by my post. I did not post it with the intention to give comment on your decision to make the picture.
You are right, it is difficult to understand why some muslim have issues being photographed and other don't mind. Maybe it has to see with the local sensitivities here in Belgium. Maybe it has to do how fundamentalistic the peoples profess their faith. I remember visiting the Fatih quarter in Istanbul. I was strongly advised not to take my camera with me for mentioned reasons.....
I think, shoot or not, is something to assess at the moment and depending on the situation and the uniqueness of what's happening in front of the lens....
Kind regards
Ivo
Not only the muslims, I think
Almost nobody I know likes tourists or similars clicking their cameras on oneself and publishing the results some where.
I remember coming to an indian market somewhere in South America.
Seeing my camera and intuiting my intentions an indian lady approached me and quietly told me
"You know, there were some tourists last day taking photographs of us like we were animals. Some of us got some big rocks like this I'm holding now and threw them to them until they were gone".
"Shame on those tourists!" I answered - and put my camera away.
Yes, paying does sometimes work, but then they are your employees, in some way.
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Martin, I hope you are not offended by my post. I did not post it with the intention to give comment on your decision to make the picture.
You are right, it is difficult to understand why some muslim have issues being photographed and other don't mind. Maybe it has to see with the local sensitivities here in Belgium. Maybe it has to do how fundamentalistic the peoples profess their faith. I remember visiting the Fatih quarter in Istanbul. I was strongly advised not to take my camera with me for mentioned reasons.....
I think, shoot or not, is something to assess at the moment and depending on the situation and the uniqueness of what's happening in front of the lens....
Kind regards
Ivo
Not insulted in the slightest Ivo. I am quite comfortable making up my own mind and if someone doesn’t agree with me that’s also OK. I do assess in each case and have often put my camera away if I feel that the right thing to do.
In this case Zanzibar depends on and exploits tourists fairly mercilessly. Then they set rules that suit them and appear to me to be quite arbitrary. In that case I see it as a game and I play my rules. In Tibet I am asked to not photograph sky burial sites and I would never dream of ignoring that request.
I try to be nice.
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Not insulted in the slightest Ivo. I am quite comfortable making up my own mind and if someone doesn’t agree with me that’s also OK. I do assess in each case and have often put my camera away if I feel that the right thing to do.
In this case Zanzibar depends on and exploits tourists fairly mercilessly. Then they set rules that suit them and appear to me to be quite arbitrary. In that case I see it as a game and I play my rules. In Tibet I am asked to not photograph sky burial sites and I would never dream of ignoring that request.
I try to be nice.
Yet there you are: those Tibetan sites have featured in several documentaries that I have watched.
I think it comes down to two principal versions of the theme: there are those who genuinely feel a religious dislike towards being photographed; there are those situations, such as where film crews are involved, that the greater fiscal benefit of publicity and tourism becomes paramount.
Guess I'm suggesting that I believe most things that are forbidden have their purchase price.
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...Almost nobody I know likes tourists or similars clicking their cameras on oneself and publishing the results some where...
In India our experience is precisely the opposite. Never have we known such insistence from local people to be photographed. As always there are exceptions that need to be respected.
But of course the clamour isn't always advantageous.
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Guess I'm suggesting that I believe most things that are forbidden have their purchase price.
Everything has its price.
Not only voluntarily paid, it can be extorted.
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Very remiss of me, Martin, I've replied four times to your thread but have have failed to say how much I like this image.
I like it very much indeed.
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Martin,
I, too, got side-tracked by all the discussion of rules, Harrod's, etc.
I like all three of the photos you have posted in this thread.
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Hahaha...
+3
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Thank you everyone. I like the photo as well. I was pleased when I spotted it amongst all the crap from that day’s images.
I was pleased that we ended up in the debate about street photography and permissions and so on. I do have a position on all this but it doesn’t mean it’s set in stone. I think about it a lot and have over the years changed my mind about certain aspects.
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Hi Martin,
I too, find Fish Market a wonderful picture...
Peter
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Thank you Peter.
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For those interested in learning more about octopi, the book Soul of an Octopus by Sy Montgomery is a fascinating read. But yes, they are delicious!