Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Mark Lindquist on June 20, 2019, 03:31:45 pm
-
Hi guys -
As several of you already know, HP sent me a DesignJet 24 inch Z9+ printer.
I've just uploaded an unboxing and setup video that may give many of you a more clear picture of what the Z9+ is about.
HP DESIGNJET UNBOXING AND SETUP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogTiE8czYM)
At this point, even though I've done several tests with MHMG and am working on more for the future, I've made several prints, and while continuing printing and testing will likely do a review sometime in the near future.
I'm impressed with the printer, there's a lot to like, and there's always some disappointments. These things will come out in my review.
I feel like I have to apologize for the casual approach and shaky iPhone camera work, but it is what it is.
Hoping some of you will find this helpful.
Best,
Mark
-
Thanks Mark, looking forward to the review ...
-
Thanks for sharing, Mark. Things have sure come a long way from the Z3100. ;D
-
An interesting first look at this new printer, thank you for your video posting.
I am considering the HP Z9+ having used the Epson 4880 for almost ten years now, I am thinking about a wider carriage printer.
I primarily print with hahnemuhle photo rag baryta sheets. Might you test out how the the Z9+ handles with sheets, and Bartya surfaces? Any issues with the paper path marking up the surface via roller marks, etc.
The test prints that HP sent out with this printer have been panned by most who gotten them, have you formed any opinion on the output given you have full control over the output?
What kind of print tuning can be done, on the Epson's you can increase ink density from stock, is a similar process possible to obtain more vivid colors?
Do you have any gut opinion on the dual drop output for the ink system, prone to more clogging/issues, or overall benefits?
Was the addition of the gloss enhancer a benefit for printing?
-
Hi Mark, thanks for the video;
Do i understand the printheads are all uniform and get their specific colors with the ink from the printer?
a color touchscreen WOW, but still no voice control! ;)
-
Thanks for sharing, Mark. Things have sure come a long way from the Z3100. ;D
Hi Ron, always good to hear from you. Glad you saw the video. Things definitely have come a long way from the Z3100. Anyone can unbox, setup and get going right away with this printer, and I can say that HP has absolutely knocked it out of the park again, particularly with black and white, which was the Z3100’s strength.
Mark
-
An interesting first look at this new printer, thank you for your video posting.
I am considering the HP Z9+ having used the Epson 4880 for almost ten years now, I am thinking about a wider carriage printer.
I primarily print with hahnemuhle photo rag baryta sheets. Might you test out how the the Z9+ handles with sheets, and Bartya surfaces? Any issues with the paper path marking up the surface via roller marks, etc.
The test prints that HP sent out with this printer have been panned by most who gotten them, have you formed any opinion on the output given you have full control over the output?
What kind of print tuning can be done, on the Epson's you can increase ink density from stock, is a similar process possible to obtain more vivid colors?
Do you have any gut opinion on the dual drop output for the ink system, prone to more clogging/issues, or overall benefits?
Was the addition of the gloss enhancer a benefit for printing?
I have printed on Baryte papers, and using the in-house custom icc profile generated by the embedded spectrophotometer, it is possible to create custom profiles in the Utility that allow a certain amount of tinkering. For heavier papers I move to star wheels up, and ink limits are adjustable within any given profile being made. There is a lot of flexibility actually making your own profile, or defining the preset, creating the paper before a canned profile is installed from a paper manufacturer. In this regard, nothing has changed in terms of making the standard custom ICC profile, in-house with the Z9+. This printer is fast. Light years faster than the Z3200ps printer.
Re: Dual Drop and Pixel Control, they’ve knocked this out of the park again, as well. There is serious mojo going on with their new technology - so much so that that side by side comparisons with many prints from the Z3200 are virtually indistinguishable. Others, not so much. To get color matched prints with pastels, it requires careful soft-proofing and in some cases could require custom profiles.
Overall, I’m impressed with the Z9+. There’s a lot of power and accuracy in this machine.
I’m not sure what happened with the test prints sent out - I’ve not seen them. Any test prints made at trade shows will be average prints, without having a clue how to tweak the printer to get the most out of it. This is always the story with printers. Only operators who know what they are doing will make exceptional prints. All others will make “good” prints based on what image is sent through.
Also, yes, the Gloss Enhancer does benefit prints subject to bronzing.
Thanks for your questions Capital.
Mark
-
Hi Mark, thanks for the video;
Do i understand the printheads are all uniform and get their specific colors with the ink from the printer?
a color touchscreen WOW, but still no voice control! ;)
Hi Pieter,
Yep, each printhead is identical and pulls ink from the system. So when you need to replace a printhead, any in stock will do. Of course, this means there must be enough ink in the cartridge to do it. This is a big improvement when you think about it. Just a few generic printheads can be stocked and from then on, we’re covered in the event of printhead failure. I think it’s great.
Not sure I would want voice control, (knowing that you’re kidding), and I certainly wouldn’t want Siri nagging at me to close the cover, lol.
Mark
-
Apart form the print quality I am very interested in the gamut and the longlivety;
The latter will take some years i guess. (Did you already send some to Mark for testing?)
The Gamut might be better then the Z3200 if I listen to the names chromatic-Red,-Blue and -Green.
Keep up the good work ! PK
-
Why do you think this printer has seemingly gone nowhere since its launch over a year ago?
Mark
-
Apart form the print quality I am very interested in the gamut and the longlivety;
The latter will take some years i guess. (Did you already send some to Mark for testing?)
The Gamut might be better then the Z3200 if I listen to the names chromatic-Red,-Blue and -Green.
Keep up the good work ! PK
Gamut is something that is being studied right now. That will be addressed in my review.
-
Why do you think this printer has seemingly gone nowhere since its launch over a year ago?
Mark
Hi Mark -
I have theories, but it’s hard to say for sure. Since this is a ground up new build for this printer HP is doing many firmware upgrades that are still addressing bugs, etc.
My main understanding is that HP is involved with major projects such as 3D printing on a major scale and they have several other printers - Dye Sub and Latex that are being developed and manufactured that may be taking precedence currently.
Frankly, the Z6 and Z9 printers have not been their priority, is my guess. They just haven’t pushed it which is perplexing. My guess is that they’ve been too busy with other things. They’re beginning to move on it however. I think of it as a “late bloomer”. It really is an amazing printer - a lot to like.
Another thing, HP printers are sold throughout the world. It’s difficult to say why it seems like it has not gone anywhere in our area. Other than what I’ve speculated above, I don’t have an answer.
-
Thanks for the info Mark. They sound very promising and if they offer a motorized take up reel you could even do production work with them. Canon and Epson offer very high quality for that area at 1440 ppi and bi directional speeds, .....not sure how bi directional looks on the new HPs. It was not usable for me on the 3200s.
Yes, they have Much bigger fish to fry beyond selling pigment printers for gallery exhibitions. I am curious why they never pushed desktop models with the Vivera inks though. That is a lot of ink sales for Epson and Canon.,
They are a producer of huge industrial products like flatbed dye sub and commercial latex tech and the art photographic market is peanuts to them ( though they might not admit it ). I’ve heard from techs that at their product training seminars the Z series are pushed off in a corner somewhere and hardly discussed. But when a company has these kinds of resources, they can invent great things that trickle down to us, eventually.
Two of the the big areas appear to be the cannabis industry and 3 and 4 D manufacturing..Seriously.
The latter, changing the shape of an object after it has been printed is futuristic mind blowing stuff.
http://view.americas.links.hp.com/?qs=8a6a5b216ba8aaf6d504deb910fb07c824fbb2cf50035155912f46a50118576936b069c211a8c1cae47823fe85e7d8bd6ce61ead43e103eec088ed0767a491f263a7e5fd1fae095fac605ae72ef63f8b
John
Hi Mark -
I have theories, but it’s hard to say for sure. Since this is a ground up new build for this printer HP is doing many firmware upgrades that are still addressing bugs, etc.
My main understanding is that HP is involved with major projects such as 3D printing on a major scale and they have several other printers - Dye Sub and Latex that are being developed and manufactured that may be taking precedence currently.
Frankly, the Z6 and Z9 printers have not been their priority, is my guess. They just haven’t pushed it which is perplexing. My guess is that they’ve been too busy with other things. They’re beginning to move on it however. I think of it as a “late bloomer”. It really is an amazing printer - a lot to like.
Another thing, HP printers are sold throughout the world. It’s difficult to say why it seems like it has not gone anywhere in our area. Other than what I’ve speculated above, I don’t have an answer.
-
How does the color gamut of the Z9+ with fewer inks compare with the color gamut Z3200 ?
-
Thanks for the info Mark. They sound very promising and if they offer a motorized take up reel you could even do production work with them. Canon and Epson offer very high quality for that area at 1440 ppi and bi directional speeds, .....not sure how bi directional looks on the new HPs. It was not usable for me on the 3200s.
Yes, they have Much bigger fish to fry beyond selling pigment printers for gallery exhibitions. I am curious why they never pushed desktop models with the Vivera inks though. That is a lot of ink sales for Epson and Canon.,
They are a producer of huge industrial products like flatbed dye sub and commercial latex tech and the art photographic market is peanuts to them ( though they might not admit it ). I’ve heard from techs that at their product training seminars the Z series are pushed off in a corner somewhere and hardly discussed. But when a company has these kinds of resources, they can invent great things that trickle down to us, eventually.
Two of the the big areas appear to be the cannabis industry and 3 and 4 D manufacturing..Seriously.
The latter, changing the shape of an object after it has been printed is futuristic mind blowing stuff.
http://view.americas.links.hp.com/?qs=8a6a5b216ba8aaf6d504deb910fb07c824fbb2cf50035155912f46a50118576936b069c211a8c1cae47823fe85e7d8bd6ce61ead43e103eec088ed0767a491f263a7e5fd1fae095fac605ae72ef63f8b
John
Hi John -
Thanks for that link - it really is amazing what HP is into, especially for the future. Actually they did have a desktop model that used Vivera inks, long ago, but they just abandoned it after a while.
I think you would be very happy with the Z9+'s Black and White capabilities. Definitely a welcome surprise.
-Mark
-
Mark,
Is it going to be possible to produce the mega patch icc profiles with the Z9+, or is that not necessary.
Hi John -
Thanks for that link - it really is amazing what HP is into, especially for the future. Actually they did have a desktop model that used Vivera inks, long ago, but they just abandoned it after a while.
I think you would be very happy with the Z9+'s Black and White capabilities. Definitely a welcome surprise.
-Mark
-
Mark,
Is it going to be possible to produce the mega patch icc profiles with the Z9+, or is that not necessary.
The embedded Spectrophotometer makes exceptional custom profiles, which for most cases is perfect.
I have made a 10,445 Aardenburg Mega patch ICC profile (among others) using the Z3200ps to generate the reference file and finally to read the target and it is exceptional. Definitely a workaround, but the results are well worth it.
In most cases, the 464 patch target ICC Profile works very well. Difficult prints get the 10445 patch target ICC profile.
Best of both worlds.
But the standard 464 custom profile is fine for printing B+W.
The spectrophotometer runs at 2.5 times faster than the Z3200ps - which is awesome.
Good news for you John - the custom ICC profile for Canson Platine provided by Canson works beautifully. Could not be happier,
-Mark
-
How does the color gamut of the Z9+ with fewer inks compare with the color gamut Z3200 ?
Hi Felix, This is an issue being carefully studied as stated in a previous thread, earlier.
It seems like it's going to be a photo finish with the Z3200ps however....
Mark
-
From what you've seen so far, how does this printer compare to the Z3200 in terms of ease of use and maintenance for occasional, low-volume users?
Most photographers would fall into this category - not printing every day, sometimes going weeks, or even months, between prints, if going away for long shooting trips. Epson printers are notoriously bad for this - they are designed for constant, heavy use, such as in print shops, and, for low-volume or infrequent users, the prints ruined due to clogs, paper spent un-clogging heads, and, eventually, replacement of badly-clogged heads made some models not worth owning. Even with the newer, less clog-prone models, ink wasted in cleaning cycles can rapidly add up - gram for gram, ink costs more than gold. This, as much as the inkset itself, was the strength of the Z3100/Z3200 - I hope the new model has continued this.
-
From what you've seen so far, how does this printer compare to the Z3200 in terms of ease of use and maintenance for occasional, low-volume users?
Most photographers would fall into this category - not printing every day, sometimes going weeks, or even months, between prints, if going away for long shooting trips. Epson printers are notoriously bad for this - they are designed for constant, heavy use, such as in print shops, and, for low-volume or infrequent users, the prints ruined due to clogs, paper spent un-clogging heads, and, eventually, replacement of badly-clogged heads made some models not worth owning. Even with the newer, less clog-prone models, ink wasted in cleaning cycles can rapidly add up - gram for gram, ink costs more than gold. This, as much as the inkset itself, was the strength of the Z3100/Z3200 - I hope the new model has continued this.
Hey Shadowblade -
I haven't had the printer long enough to talk about clogs or potential clogging. The Z9+ is quiet - it doesn't have a fan running 24/7/365 and so far I haven't heard it wake up and run a lap around the track like the Z3200ps does. This is not to say it doesn't exercise - it's just that I haven't been there when it did. The fact that the printheads are generic is a good step in the right direction since having a few on hand covers the entire inkset in the event of a clogged printhead. HP has pretty much got all bases covered at this point it seems, so I have no doubt they have continued their stellar track record in the realm of non-clogging printheads. Time will tell of course, but this ain't your daddy's Z3200 - this is a whole 'nother printer, and it's really amazing. It's taking time to understand it and the differences between it and the Z3200ps. While I'm happy to have this printer in my studio, I'm not ready to pitch all the other Z3200's and replace them with Z9's just yet. :-)
Mark
-
A few notes on the Z9.
I love technology, especially the creators that are trying to do better with every release.
As much as every turn of the Z3200 was amazing every time, this printer or at least the one i had was not.
Does it clog? I had to let it sit for long periods as there were technical issues. It did clog more often within periods of non use than the Z3200 series. Was it hard to elevate? Non targeted head cleaning from the results of a diagnostic print always solved missing lines.
Colour permanence. The ink set is different thus testing is required to say with certainty how long the inks singular or in overprint combinations will last. I'll assume due to the fact HP prided themselves on perhaps the best numbers for colour printing that it will remain stable or surpass the Z3200 inkset.
Quiet: yes it sleeps correctly and all but early morning maintenance schedules could wake you if you are in the same room. I suggested that HP revise their CRON tasks according to time zone. Who knows, they have listened before.
Is it worth replacing a Z3200 or Canon or Epson. Most of the advantages of HP remain. Cheaper easily replaced print heads. No swap black inks or waste. Built in i1 in the + series. This printer once the spool file is received is the fastest In have seen. IF you have the vertical cutter it must be a great production printer, rather than my way of using long straight edges and cutters!
Maintenance is super simple, I see nothing shocking about that. Although if they are still using the neoprene drive belts then you'll have to be prepared to completely dissemble the printer to change one drive belt. I have no way of knowing the composition of the belt. In the Z3200 3100 and 2100 it was a cheap part that required a lot of work, even then a technician would only be able to reset via hardware the necessary control checks like head firing!
It is a vey nice looking printer, very economical, quiet, fast, and efficient. The unit I had ( sending it back today) was NOT without problems though. I am waiting for a promised replacement but no confirmation. If and when I do, I'll write and post a review ASAP.
Feel free to ask any questions.
-
A few notes on the Z9.
I love technology, especially the creators that are trying to do better with every release.
As much as every turn of the Z3200 was amazing every time, this printer or at least the one i had was not.
Does it clog? I had to let it sit for long periods as there were technical issues. It did clog more often within periods of non use than the Z3200 series. Was it hard to elevate? Non targeted head cleaning from the results of a diagnostic print always solved missing lines.
Colour permanence. The ink set is different thus testing is required to say with certainty how long the inks singular or in overprint combinations will last. I'll assume due to the fact HP prided themselves on perhaps the best numbers for colour printing that it will remain stable or surpass the Z3200 inkset.
Quiet: yes it sleeps correctly and all but early morning maintenance schedules could wake you if you are in the same room. I suggested that HP revise their CRON tasks according to time zone. Who knows, they have listened before.
Is it worth replacing a Z3200 or Canon or Epson. Most of the advantages of HP remain. Cheaper easily replaced print heads. No swap black inks or waste. Built in i1 in the + series. This printer once the spool file is received is the fastest In have seen. IF you have the vertical cutter it must be a great production printer, rather than my way of using long straight edges and cutters!
Maintenance is super simple, I see nothing shocking about that. Although if they are still using the neoprene drive belts then you'll have to be prepared to completely dissemble the printer to change one drive belt. I have no way of knowing the composition of the belt. In the Z3200 3100 and 2100 it was a cheap part that required a lot of work, even then a technician would only be able to reset via hardware the necessary control checks like head firing!
It is a vey nice looking printer, very economical, quiet, fast, and efficient. The unit I had ( sending it back today) was NOT without problems though. I am waiting for a promised replacement but no confirmation. If and when I do, I'll write and post a review ASAP.
Feel free to ask any questions.
There are still a few issues to be worked out and HP has been diligently working on all of them. Good news is that the carriage belt is of a much higher quality and is thicker and sturdier than what is in the Z3200's.
One unfortunate issue is that the embedded spectrophotometer allows for making ONLY 464 patch target profiles and no opportunity to make extended profiles independently like the Z3200's allowed.
We're hoping that HP will address this issue in the future and possibly bring back APS (but frankly just opening up the capability to make extended profiles like the previous Z's would be good enough).
One particularly interesting feature of the Z9+ is the job queue. It is now totally browser based - you are redirected to a separate ip address where many features are available, one of which is the job queue itself, complete with images of all jobs printed. Many settings for the printer can be changed from within the Job queue proper, as well.
There have been something like 10 or more firmware updates since the beginning of this Z9+ build. With each update, the printer improves significantly.
Unquestionably, this is a smoking fast printer. The spectrophotometer works flawlessly and moves at an amazing speed, so making custom profiles is simple and easy, and fast.
Wilhelm is coming out with ratings soon and Aardenburg is beginning to start on a few papers, particularly Moab Entrada Natural 300 Gsm, and a few others.
It's looking like HP has achieved another breakthrough similar to the Z3200 Vivera Inks with their new Vivid inkset and the dual droplet technology. Once testing is completed we'll know the results. I've been saying all along that HP would knock it out of the park in this area. Color science is their specialty and there is no doubt in my mind that they will remain "King of the Hill" as far as longevity is concerned.
I have heard that there were problems with earlier models in regard to clogging, etc., but I have not experienced any issues at all, not even in the slightest. Generic printheads is a major step forward. Just keep one or two on hand and problem solved for the most part.
One issue of concern to me is that it seems only Gloss, semi-gloss, and pearl papers are eligible for advance paper calibration. So far the option to calibrate paper advance on heavier matte papers is unavailable. This is of course somewhat remediated by the choices made in defining the paper through the specific preset and changing paper characteristics, such as star-wheels up, etc.
Additionally, there no longer is the ability to define the amount of Gloss Enhancer in a preset. It seems that they have determined what is optimal for each paper and that's that.
As with all HP photo printers, this one is not without quirks but you soon get used to them.
Sheet Paper loading is still a pain, and in some ways better than with the Z3200, in some ways worse. Let's face it. This is a roll printer - these printers all are, and sheet loading is secondary. It's a pity HP did not listen when I explained at length and sent plans for a mockup tray. One improvement is the rear loading platform in the back, which is a metal surface with lines indicating loading paper path. It MUST be accessed from behind the printer, which means walking around to the front of the printer to make choices required by the console. They could easily have made the entire console invert itself so it could be read from the back, but that's another area I made suggestions that were not addressed.
In every way, this being a ground-up new build, it's somewhat unfair to make comparisons to the Z3200, although this is inevitable. Overall, hands down, the Z9+ wins in almost every area, but the Z3200ps is a tinkerer's dream, can be fixed, and has a long standing history of best in class print longevity. With the Z3200, one can create a tiff target that can be printed on the Z9+ then read through the Z3200's spectrophotometer. I have done this - made an Aardenburg 10445 patch target ICC profile for the Z9+ using the Z3200ps to scan, and finally using Argyll to created the ICC profile. Of course this could be done with any printer in concert with the Z3200ps, but I have to admit that HP really nailed it on the 464 patch target that resides in the Z9+. It is very accurate and mostly adequate.
All in all, the more recently manufactured Z9+units, particularly with firmware upgrades, appear to be stable and reliable, although not without bugs which are continually being worked on.
I'm doing extensive testing and have been compiling information about the pro's and con's, but it takes time. So far so good, with a few exceptions.
Mark
-
Thanks for your report on the Z9, Mark. Sounds like a winner.
-
You time to evaluate and share your findings with others that have a keen interest in this printer is greatly appreciated, Mark.
-
Thanks a lot Mark.
This printer seems a lot more promising now than a few months ago.
It still a bit surprising to me to see the time needed from announcement to actual maturity. This printer feels like it was announced at least one year too early.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Mark, Thank you so much for all your diligent work digging into this new printers capabilities. As far as I can see, you are the only one out there really communicating what’s going on with them. For a whole year it seemed like they were in the beta stage. I hope HP appreciates your efforts. They should.
It seems like this dual drop tech is not a myth, but the real thing. Speed of course is what the world craves these days and that is one master they have to serve. As we have always known, their hardware always seems to be initially ahead of the software to keep up with it. I ,like you, would be thrilled if they integrated the APS capability of the Z3200 into the Z+ series.
Do they offer a take up reel for doing mass production editions. You should be able to set up a big job and let it print while you sleep.
I love the feature of the universal head design where you can have a head on hand at all times that will function in any slot. That’s huge.
I remember seeing your design of the sheet paper feed tray and it was a mistake for them not to take that seriously. How many times have we mentioned that in the last 12 years? That was one of the very first things we suggested to them at Photo Expo when the Z3100 was released.
Anyway, I have always used 8.5x11 sheets to proof work before installing the rolls. My solution is to have a box of totally flat and totally even dimension sheets ready for proofing. If they are at all curled or uneven forgetaboutit. I have an accurate paper trimmer and dry mount press to make them with. Without that, having a box of sheet paper of the same media should really solve that issue for the most part, once you get used to it. Hope the Z9+ prints even borders on sheets : -) . I’m still dealing with that on the Z3200.
John
Thanks a lot Mark.
This printer seems a lot more promising now than a few months ago.
It still a bit surprising to me to see the time needed from announcement to actual maturity. This printer feels like it was announced at least one year too early.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
+1
Many thanks for the valuable information regarding the printer.
The extra thick belt is a very welcome replacement; it was one of the bottlenecks, allthough new types lasted longer.
How is it possible that they have not found a good way to load sheets ?
I always put my sheets in straight at the rolls entrance;
I agree that with doing calibations ( like printhead allignment) you better use the paper as flat as possible.
My calibrations went all wrong when i used the last part of my roll.
Mark are there similar parts in the z9+ compared tot the Z3200? Or is it an all new machine?
-
My calibrations went all wrong when i used the last part of my roll.
Isn't there vacuum support?
-
John N, Glyph,
Thanks guys - appreciate it-
Bernard - I understand what you're saying. I can speculate about why HP does what they do, but in the end, I really can't say and I can't speak for them in this regard.
Assuming that the bottom line (money) is always king for corporations, it could be that there are factors we don't know anything about in terms of marketing strategies, demographics, target priorities, deadlines, etc., that HP deals with on a daily basis that may have had and are still having on how they've been dealing with this roll out. It also could be, that they're working on improvements which because of a new technology and inkset, they're working to make improvements that could be coming slowly. Who knows.
Like I have said, They could have just caused the Z3200 Series to be the end of the line for HP fine art printers and just focused on poster and banner printing.
In this regard, I feel we're all fortunate that they are continuing to develop the fine art printing segment of their market and that aspect of this printer which is extremely capable...in many areas, as well.
Mark
-
Mark, Thank you so much for all your diligent work digging into this new printers capabilities. As far as I can see, you are the only one out there really communicating what’s going on with them. For a whole year it seemed like they were in the beta stage. I hope HP appreciates your efforts. They should.
It seems like this dual drop tech is not a myth, but the real thing. Speed of course is what the world craves these days and that is one master they have to serve. As we have always known, their hardware always seems to be initially ahead of the software to keep up with it. I ,like you, would be thrilled if they integrated the APS capability of the Z3200 into the Z+ series.
Do they offer a take up reel for doing mass production editions. You should be able to set up a big job and let it print while you sleep.
I love the feature of the universal head design where you can have a head on hand at all times that will function in any slot. That’s huge.
I remember seeing your design of the sheet paper feed tray and it was a mistake for them not to take that seriously. How many times have we mentioned that in the last 12 years? That was one of the very first things we suggested to them at Photo Expo when the Z3100 was released.
Anyway, I have always used 8.5x11 sheets to proof work before installing the rolls. My solution is to have a box of totally flat and totally even dimension sheets ready for proofing. If they are at all curled or uneven forgetaboutit. I have an accurate paper trimmer and dry mount press to make them with. Without that, having a box of sheet paper of the same media should really solve that issue for the most part, once you get used to it. Hope the Z9+ prints even borders on sheets : -) . I’m still dealing with that on the Z3200.
John
Hey John,
Thanks - always nice to be appreciated. Re: the take up reel. I do believe they do offer a take up reel as an accessory. Also, surprisingly, they apparently do offer a 42" scanner accessory, which in certain cases could be really cool. No doubt they are putting that spectrophotometer to work in this regard, although I haven't seen the scanner accessory, but have seen it listed.
Yeah, the paper sheet loading tray is really needed IMO, but they chose not to do it, however I have seen it on other printers they make. Perhaps in the future, hopefully.
Even borders? Fuhgeddaboudit man. Just so very disappointing. I imagine using Qimage would solve that problem. I have Qimage, but talk about a strange duck. At my age it's just another learning curve that I forget what I've learned and have to keep relearning. Still, a guy would think that getting borders to print correctly wouldn't be such an issue. We all fool with the center image check mark and fiddle with moving the print image around numerically based on how the Z's print, but man, what a pain.
I've actually made a non-destructible physical addition to the Z9+ I have that allows me to get 99% sheet paper load accuracy. It's a simple addition which I will probably show eventually. (It's nice to have a machine shop, but this fix can be done by anyone, easily.)
The dual drop technology is powerful mojo, for sure. Just as it took time to really develop serious chops with the Z3200, I'm finding this printer is also capable of going around the track equally impressively, and at breakneck speeds in comparison to the Z3200's.
When it comes time to switch, the Z9's should be a very good option, and equally if not more appropriate compared to the competition.
You need to come on down and run it through its paces man. I've got the "Aardenburg/Lindquist" 10445 patch target ICC profile (Mark's a frickin' genius) and the Z9+ rock and rolls.
You won't believe what the standard 464 patch target does. Take any paper you want, Calibrate it, make the custom in-house profile and go. Easy-peasey and sooooo close, if not in many cases spot on.
Now there are exceptions to printing pastel colors which I'm working on trying to understand. If you are serious about color faithful reproduction, you'll need to bring your "A" game to the table.
Softproofing creates a lot of opportunities, but ultimately, the reality is that this Vivid inkset is NOT the Vivera inkset, and it would be a mistake to send an image sofproofed for the Z3200 straight to the Z9+ and expect it to be dead on. In some, if not many cases there will such similarity, only labeled prints will be the giveaway. But in other situations, it can be like pulling teeth to color match a Z3200ps print to the Z9+ print. It can get sooo close in many cases, but in others, so far, I have found, no cigar.
Cheers!
Mark
-
+1
Many thanks for the valuable information regarding the printer.
The extra thick belt is a very welcome replacement; it was one of the bottlenecks, allthough new types lasted longer.
How is it possible that they have not found a good way to load sheets ?
I always put my sheets in straight at the rolls entrance;
I agree that with doing calibations ( like printhead allignment) you better use the paper as flat as possible.
My calibrations went all wrong when i used the last part of my roll.
Mark are there similar parts in the z9+ compared tot the Z3200? Or is it an all new machine?
Hai Pieter,
You no, the sheet loading thing? Man, it's just the way it is, and it must simply be not cost effective for them to deal with it in a major way.
But IMO, it's the elephant in the room. Oh well.
Yes, they do use standardized parts in the new Z9+. If you're really curious about how it all works and just what's involved, check out:
Service Manual (https://shared.swissparts.ch/manuals/HP/Plotter/HP%20Designjet%20T1700,T1708,Z9,Z6%20Service%20Manual.pdf)
Mark
-
Isn't there vacuum support?
Hey Pangiotas,
See for yourself. Let me know what page you find it on:-)
This hopefully contains the answer to your question.
HERE (https://shared.swissparts.ch/manuals/HP/Plotter/HP%20Designjet%20T1700,T1708,Z9,Z6%20Service%20Manual.pdf)
Mark
-
Hi Mark,
Thanks for providing such in-depth information about the Z9 + printer. Since no one else is really doing any meaningful investigation and sharing their reports in detail, you are an invaluable resource for all of us who are considering a new printer.
Do you happen to know which inks support dual drop and which don't? I remember that red and yellow don't but I can't recall precisely for the rest.
Also, have you seen any benefits from what HP calls "HP Pixel Control" which supposedly provides superior "smooth transitions, great detail and deep colors", over what the Z3200 can do? When printing synthetic gradients, are they somehow smoother than before? Does the same image file sent to both appear slightly more detailed with the newer Z9?
-
Isn't there vacuum support?
Nope, there isn't any. It's a pity because the paper path bends the media counter to the direction of the curl (Canon and Epson do not do this). One has to advance the paper a bit before you start printing to avoid head strikes, especially with stiff curly paper and pretty much always towards the end of the roll. I find it intolerable to waste expensive beautiful paper over bad design.
-
Hi Mark,
Thanks for providing such in-depth information about the Z9 + printer. Since no one else is really doing any meaningful investigation and sharing their reports in detail, you are an invaluable resource for all of us who are considering a new printer.
Do you happen to know which inks support dual drop and which don't? I remember that red and yellow don't but I can't recall precisely for the rest.
Also, have you seen any benefits from what HP calls "HP Pixel Control" which supposedly provides superior "smooth transitions, great detail and deep colors", over what the Z3200 can do? When printing synthetic gradients, are they somehow smoother than before? Does the same image file sent to both appear slightly more detailed with the newer Z9?
Hi Samuel, Thanks for the kind words - I try but I certainly don't have all the answers by any means.
As far as benefits from the dual drop technology and pixel control, the fact that they are able to "mix" colors on the fly, of course, in their words obviates the need for light magenta, and light Gray. So from the standpoint that a majority of prints are a close match, it seems they have accomplished something major, at least it's what I'm seeing. Are transitions smoother, I think in some cases yes, are images capable of deeper colors and detail - can't actually say for sure yet since I haven't run through enough rolls and sheets to definitively get a handle on these issues. I'm seeing Z9+ equaling and/or bettering Z3200 output in some cases and less so in others. Add to this issue prints on glossy/semi-gloss/satin, etc., vs matte papers and this issue remains under study for me at the moment.
I'm not sure just how in-depth I want to study output (as in microscopic detail) as that's not really my area of expertise, and to the disappointment of some people I pretty much rely on my eye. So far, it is a close race, if not possibly a (ahem) photo finish. Apologies for the pun.
I don't print synthetic gradients, however I have many gradients in abstract photos I did in the early 2000's that I plan to be printing soon. This will be telling, since I know these images so well and have prints of the same images printed on Epson, Canon, and HP printers.
This is what I'm talking about:
Mark Lindquist Early 2000's Abstracts (http://artbiz.com/artab.htm)
I plan on printing a portfolio of these abstracts entirely on the Z9+ and I should be able to address the gradient issues then.
I'd like to address your remarks about head strikes:
Nope, there isn't any. It's a pity because the paper path bends the media counter to the direction of the curl (Canon and Epson do not do this). One has to advance the paper a bit before you start printing to avoid head strikes, especially with stiff curly paper and pretty much always towards the end of the roll. I find it intolerable to waste expensive beautiful paper over bad design.
So I have experienced head strikes at the very end of certain rolls with the Z9+. On the other hand, where head strikes can be experienced at the very beginning of the roll, There have been none, particularly as the paper path introduces a reverse curl into the roll. In fairness, I've had head strikes with the Z3200ps at the end of the roll, and I think it's not uncommon industry-wide. Of course, the painful panacea for this is to roll out the remainder of the roll, decurl, then print. I have yet to have ANY head strikes at the beginning of the roll, and to the contrary, have been amazed at how the reverse curl works so well beginning a new roll.
As far as sheets go, I have had NO head strikes at all. However, I load paper strictly from behind via the metal platform, bypassing the sheet loading "slot" on the top of the machine.
There is pretty much a culture of working around quirks and issues with the Z3200 printers, and I see this is an area of continuity with the Z9+.
Ciao-
Mark
-
If I can print this:
(http://artbiz.com/ALL%20ABSTRACTS/SlitScreen.jpg)
Slit-Screen, copyright 2004 © Mark Lindquist
and this:
(http://artbiz.com/ALL%20ABSTRACTS/Before%20Icarus.jpg)
Before Icarus Knew, Copyright © 2005 Mark Lindquist
And several others without altering the original files, I'll be thrilled. Many are rather delicate images, being single frame motion blur from hundreds of exposures with either the Nikon D2H or D2X.
I won't be surprised at needing to go back in and soft-proof for the paper/ink combinations, however.
-M
-
Here is an example of an image printed on both the Z3200ps and the Z9+ where the prints are indistinguishable from one another side by side:
-
Hi Samuel, Thanks for the kind words - I try but I certainly don't have all the answers by any means.
I'm certainly not expecting that :-) But thank you for your generosity regardless and it is fun when we all learn together!
As far as benefits from the dual drop technology and pixel control, the fact that they are able to "mix" colors on the fly, of course, in their words obviates the need for light magenta, and light Gray. So from the standpoint that a majority of prints are a close match, it seems they have accomplished something major, at least it's what I'm seeing. Are transitions smoother, I think in some cases yes, are images capable of deeper colors and detail - can't actually say for sure yet since I haven't run through enough rolls and sheets to definitively get a handle on these issues. I'm seeing Z9+ equaling and/or bettering Z3200 output in some cases and less so in others. Add to this issue prints on glossy/semi-gloss/satin, etc., vs matte papers and this issue remains under study for me at the moment.
The addition of Lm, Lc and Lk would only mean that colours are reproduced with a less obvious dot pattern/grain, and the absence of them does not change the overall colour reproduction (colours are not supposed to shift in lightness, hue or saturation). The dual drop tech is supposed to help out with that. I've seen some samples but I do not have a Z3200 to compare against. I'm assuming when you say they are a close match in this context, you are referring to the dot pattern, smoothness/graininess and highlight detail?
I never quite understood what HP means by being able to "mix" colours/inks at a pixel level. Is that not what Epsons and Canons do? I watched the marketing video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6275gB57v4) and it makes me even more puzzled. The technology promises greater detail, deeper colour and smoother transitions - I'm sorry, I don't want deeper colours than my original, I want as faithful a reproduction as possible. If they mean deeper colours as in more total gamut is realised with the same inks, that would be quite remarkable indeed and it could only possibly affect colours that require mixing of inks, not pure hues. However, you have already mentioned broadly similar gamut and detail between the Z9+ and Z3200, so it seems that whatever HP Pixel Control is doing, isn't making much of a difference at all. I've also not ever had a problem printing smooth transitions on Canon or Epson printers, and I believe the Z3200 was excellent in this regard too.
to the disappointment of some people I pretty much rely on my eye.
I find that to be very important to do. Some things just have to be evaluated visually. And if something is visible under high magnification but not to the naked eye, one may argue that the difference is inconsequential in the real world.
I don't print synthetic gradients, however I have many gradients in abstract photos I did in the early 2000's that I plan to be printing soon. This will be telling, since I know these images so well and have prints of the same images printed on Epson, Canon, and HP printers.
That's great! I look forward to your discoveries. I mentioned synthetic gradients only because you can make them noise-free and essentially perfect, so any inperfection in the print must be introduced by the printing process and is thus the maximal stress test for smoothness. If anything, it would help to show off how much better HP Pixel Control is helping.
I'd like to address your remarks about head strikes:
So I have experienced head strikes at the very end of certain rolls with the Z9+. On the other hand, where head strikes can be experienced at the very beginning of the roll, There have been none, particularly as the paper path introduces a reverse curl into the roll.
Happy that it's working out for you. During a HP Z9+ demonstration where I was present in person, a roll of HP Super Heavyweight Plus Matte paper was loaded and head strikes occurred at the very beginning of the roll. It was not towards the end of the roll. When I pointed it out, I was told that this is a known problem and the media needs to be advanced a bit to avoid this issue. The worst problems I've ever faced with these types of printers are paper handling related. Maybe I'm just more unlucky than most, but then again this demo printer wasn't mine :-)
-
...The addition of Lm, Lc and Lk would only mean that colours are reproduced with a less obvious dot pattern/grain, and the absence of them does not change the overall colour reproduction (colours are not supposed to shift in lightness, hue or saturation). The dual drop tech is supposed to help out with that. I've seen some samples but I do not have a Z3200 to compare against. I'm assuming when you say they are a close match in this context, you are referring to the dot pattern, smoothness/graininess and highlight detail?
Actually, the physics behind dilute Lm, Lc, and Lk and why manufacturers rolled out this technology with photo printers in the late 1990s was more than just about reducing dot pattern/grain appearance in light and midtone colors. The physics of a darker single color dot surrounded by more white space to achieve the lightness value required leads to reduced chroma compared to a few dots of more dilute colorant placed in overlapping fashion with better covering power (i.e. reduced white area on paper). So, the Lc and Lm also help extend color gamut in the light colors. Lk helps with grain, and Ly isn't necessary because yellow is such a light and low contrast color to begin with.
Hp's decision to remove the Lm, Lc, and Lk, while trying not to give up any ground on color gamut or smoothness meant HP engineers had to play with a few engineering variables to pull it off. The dual droplet size is the obvious variable, but they could also have split the difference in pigment concentration as well. The M, and C and Gray inks used on the Z9 may well be more dilute and closer in density to the Z3200's Lm, Lc, and Lk than to the Z3200 L, C, and Gray ink. HP engineers could also be relying more on the new chromata red, green, and blue when printing into light pastel colors on the print surface. They can and did change the screening algorithm dramatically, hence the market speak about "pixel control" technology".
I have been working with Mark L to evaluate the Z9 versus the Z3200 using spectral/colorimetric data being supplied to me by Mark L. using the Z3200's spectrophotometer. We are using the Z3200 to collect the data because, regrettably, the Z9's spectro whilst being much faster than that of the Z3200, has also been "gelded". The Z3200 spectro is fully addressable by the enduser whereas the Z9 spectro is black box (it prints and measures just one 464 patch target and that's it, albeit the resultant ICC profile the Z9 generates is really quite good. No doubt HP marketing weighed in and told the engineers to "Keep it simple, stupid" for the enduser, but it's a shame to see such a beautiful spectro hobbled like that for marketing reasons.
The first thing I checked was whether the Z9 uses 100% Gray component replacement (GCR) when we sent it pure neutral RGB triplets. It does! Just like the Z3200. Neither Canon nor Epson do that in color mode, although Epson gets close when using ABW mode. This accounts why so many printmakers think the Z3200 had such great B&W printing capability. Hp has kept this goodness with the Z9. Second thing I checked was color gamut in the highlights. Mark L. and I need to run more tests, but my tentative conclusion, at least for matte fine art paper, is that the Z9's color gamut difference compared to the Z3200 is the opposite of what I would have anticipated. It does better, yes better even without the Lc and Lm in printing into the highlights, but sacrifices a little in the darker colors compared to the Z9. Go figure! All and all, the total color gamut volume of the Z9 and Z3200 are basically about the same with the differences in overall gamut occurring between lighter and darker print colors. Transferring work seamlessly from the Z3200 to the Z9 and vice versa will work much of the time for less discriminating print jobs, but not always. Some further image edits may be necessary to create the very best print quality using one printer or the other.
Anyway, my tentative conclusion after having made many colorimetric evaluations to date of the data sent to me by Mark L. is that HP has basically given us a reborn Z3200 with 2x to 3x the speed, less inks to buy, and universally replaceable print heads. That's pretty impressive, but then again, Hp has had 10 years to do it. Longevity of the new "Photo Vivid" ink set compared to the older Vivera Pigment set (which still beats both Canon and Epson's latest formulations after all these years) remains to be tested at Aardenburg. I do plan on running some head-to-head comparison testing of HP's new inks versus the older Vivera Pigment set, but I have no budget for this work at this time. I don't know when this work will get started.
Cheers,
Mark McCormick-Goodhart
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
-
Has anyone done a head to head comparison test of a subtle neutral black and white file comparing the Z9+ 464 patch target with a larger patch target from the Z3200 on the same media? I’m still curious about the way this dual dot tech works with subtle monochrome transitions.
John
Actually, the physics behind dilute Lm, Lc, and Lk and why manufacturers rolled out this technology with photo printers in the late 1990s was more than just about reducing dot pattern/grain appearance in light and midtown colors. The physics of a darker single color dot surrounded by more white space to achieve the lightness value required leads to reduced chroma compared to a few dots of more dilute colorant placed in overlapping fashion with better covering power (i.e. reduced white area on paper). So, the Lc and Lm also help extend color gamut in the light colors. Lk helps with grain, and Ly isn't necessary because yellow is such a light and low contrast color to begin with.
Hp's decision to remove the Lm, Lc, and Lk, while trying not to give up any ground on color gamut or smoothness meant HP engineers had to play with a few engineering variables to pull it off. The dual droplet size is the obvious variable, but they could also have split the difference in pigment concentration as well. The M, and C and Gray inks used on the Z9 may well be more dilute and closer in density to the Z3200's Lm, Lc, and Lk than to the Z3200 L, C, and Gray ink. HP engineers could also be relying more on the new chromata red, green, and blue when printing into light pastel colors on the print surface. They can and did change the screening algorithm dramatically, hence the market speak about "pixel control" technology".
I have been working with Mark L to evaluate the Z9 versus the Z3200 using spectral/colorimetric data being supplied to me by Mark L. using the Z3200's spectrophotometer. We are using the Z3200 to collect the data because, regrettably, the Z9's spectro whilst being much faster than that of the Z3200, has also been "gelded". The Z3200 spectro is fully addressable by the enduser whereas the Z9 spectro is black box (it prints and measures just one 464 patch target and that's it, albeit the resultant ICC profile the Z9 generates is really quite good. No doubt HP marketing weighed in and told the engineers to "Keep it simple, stupid" for the enduser, but it's a shame to see such a beautiful spectro hobbled like that for marketing reasons.
The first thing I checked was whether the Z9 uses 100% Gray component replacement (GCR) when we sent it pure neutral RGB triplets. It does! Just like the Z3200. Neither Canon nor Epson do that in color mode, although Epson gets close when using ABW mode. This accounts why so many printmakers think the Z3200 had such great B&W printing capability. Hp has kept this goodness with the Z9. Second thing I checked was color gamut in the highlights. Mark L. and I need to run more tests, but my tentative conclusion, at least for matte fine art paper, is that the Z9's color gamut difference compared to the Z3200 is the opposite of what I would have anticipated. It does better, yes better even without the Lc and Lm in printing into the highlights, but sacrifices a little in the darker colors compared to the Z9. Go figure! All and all, the total color gamut volume of the Z9 and Z3200 are basically about the same with the differences in overall gamut occurring between lighter and darker print colors. Transferring work seamlessly from the Z3200 to the Z9 and vice versa will work much of the time for less discriminating print jobs, but not always. Some further image edits may be necessary to create the very best print quality using one printer or the other.
Anyway, my tentative conclusion after having made many colorimetric evaluations to date of the data sent to me by Mark L. is that HP has basically given us a reborn Z3200 with 2x to 3x the speed, less inks to buy, and universally replaceable print heads. That's pretty impressive, but then again, Hp has had 10 years to do it. Longevity of the new "Photo Vivid" ink set compared to the older Vivera Pigment set (which still beats both Canon and Epson's latest formulations after all these years) remains to be tested at Aardenburg. I do plan on running some head-to-head comparison testing of HP's new inks versus the older Vivera Pigment set, but I have no budget for this work at this time. I don't know when this work will get started.
Cheers,
Mark McCormick-Goodhart
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
-
The addition of Lm, Lc and Lk would only mean that colours are reproduced with a less obvious dot pattern/grain, and the absence of them does not change the overall colour reproduction (colours are not supposed to shift in lightness, hue or saturation). The dual drop tech is supposed to help out with that. I've seen some samples but I do not have a Z3200 to compare against. I'm assuming when you say they are a close match in this context, you are referring to the dot pattern, smoothness/graininess and highlight detail?
I never quite understood what HP means by being able to "mix" colours/inks at a pixel level. Is that not what Epsons and Canons do? I watched the marketing video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6275gB57v4) and it makes me even more puzzled. The technology promises greater detail, deeper colour and smoother transitions - I'm sorry, I don't want deeper colours than my original, I want as faithful a reproduction as possible. If they mean deeper colours as in more total gamut is realised with the same inks, that would be quite remarkable indeed and it could only possibly affect colours that require mixing of inks, not pure hues. However, you have already mentioned broadly similar gamut and detail between the Z9+ and Z3200, so it seems that whatever HP Pixel Control is doing, isn't making much of a difference at all. I've also not ever had a problem printing smooth transitions on Canon or Epson printers, and I believe the Z3200 was excellent in this regard too.
HP has a relatively sophisticated process in how the printer thermally heats the ink, mixes the colors then sprays them out of larger and smaller orifices in the printheads. If you look at page 6 of the service manual, you'll see "Theory of Operation" schematics which will explain it much better than I can. ( https://shared.swissparts.ch/manuals/HP/Plotter/HP%20Designjet%20T1700,T1708,Z9,Z6%20Service%20Manual.pdf )
Aside from marketing hype ( and remember, HP is definitely marketing these printers to market segments other than fine art photography ) and the poster making market is an important segment to them. They claim that posters benefit equally as fine art prints, but definitely discuss uses of substrates affecting longevity in their literature. Putting market hype and claims aside, real world experience tells (and will tell) the story. Again, it takes time to thoroughly evaluate these things.
I mentioned synthetic gradients only because you can make them noise-free and essentially perfect, so any inperfection in the print must be introduced by the printing process and is thus the maximal stress test for smoothness. If anything, it would help to show off how much better HP Pixel Control is helping.
Happy that it's working out for you. During a HP Z9+ demonstration where I was present in person, a roll of HP Super Heavyweight Plus Matte paper was loaded and head strikes occurred at the very beginning of the roll. It was not towards the end of the roll. When I pointed it out, I was told that this is a known problem and the media needs to be advanced a bit to avoid this issue. The worst problems I've ever faced with these types of printers are paper handling related. Maybe I'm just more unlucky than most, but then again this demo printer wasn't mine :-)
Yeah, IMO demonstrations really don't tell the real story. For the most part, the operators doing the demos aren't specifically trained in serious work with the printers, again, IMO. As I said, there is and has been a particular culture of working with the Z Series printers that consists of tips, tricks, workarounds and fixes that studio photographers and professional printers develop to avoid mistakes that beginners or mediocre operators make. But beyond that, "There’s no perfect printer out there, IMHO. One has to deal with workarounds with any of them. I can deal with paper feed issues. Clogged nozzles, wasted man hours trying to get printers back on line - That’s a PITA"
So there's no comparing apples to apples or oranges to oranges with Canon V. Epson V. HP. The HP Z printers are in a league of their own. And with it comes amazing technology that squeezes out more blood from the stone IMO, but each of us have our favorites among the printers available. And let's face it, they're all really very good. And they all have issues.
Since I have made a fairly exhaustive study of the Z3200 series printers from many aspects of the printer mechanics, theory of operation, and usage since the Z3100, and for the last several years working with Mark McCormick Goodhart to create extended patch targets, the user level for that machine is vastly different from the normal user. Several of us have chosen to invest the time and resources to experiment with the printers to see just what they are fully capable of, and it has been rewarding. As I come to know the Z9+, this sort of "tinkering" with the printer seems also possible, but at this point, the one hurdle is the limited access spectrophotometer, which if unleashed again, as it was in the Z3200's, this printer would be unquestionably the no-brainer choice for a good many printers looking to push their work just that much further, without spending excessively on automated spectrophotometers that would otherwise be unjustified for occasional use. Even with the limited 464 patch target and resultant straightforward profile making capabilities, resident in the machine for all to use, just as it is, makes this printer heads and shoulders above the rest, particularly for those who prefer to use, test and experiment with various papers, considering that like the Z3200ps, it comes as standard equipment providing quick, easy, more than adequate custom profiles arranged carefully, afterwards, for that matter. This is not the case with Canon and Epson as we know.
The Z9+ has essentially a much improved robotic (automated) high-speed spectrophotometer replete with amazing speed and accuracy. With the new reference files Mark MHMG and I have been working on and John Dean and I have been testing (along with Mark McCormick of course), on the Z3200ps printers, that research, has in turn applied to the Z9+ series, particularly in concert with the Z3200ps embedded spectrophotometer and color center that creates Tiff files to be printed by any other printer, then scanned by the Z3200ps at a much lower speed, but there is hope HP will once again institute the extended profile capabilities of the spectrophotometer in the speedy Z9+, even if as yet another accessory that can be purchased as before in the Z3100 and Z3200 printers.
There's a lot to like and even love about this new Z9+ printer. There's some things to be frustrated with. Hopefully many of those things will evolve in coming iterations.
-Mark
-
Has anyone done a head to head comparison test of a subtle neutral black and white file comparing the Z9+ 464 patch target with a larger patch target from the Z3200 on the same media? I’m still curious about the way this dual dot tech works with subtle monochrome transitions.
John
If you and Mark will give me a test image, I'll be glad to run it, John. Then Mark MHMG can measure and chart the results.
I can also do comparisons between the Z9+ 464 profile and the Z9+ Aardenburg/Lindquist 10445 profile.
-Mark
-
Mark,
That would be cool. As with our other tests, we could see at what point with bw the extended profiles add what advantages in terms of tonal ramp as well as neutrality. What we found with the Z3200 was the actual neutrality of the print was different, and improved.
I just can't imagine HP not offering the ability as in APS to create your own targets, at least in the 700-2000 patch range since they have the hardware sitting right there in front of them.
I'll send you the same file that I printed last time.
John
If you and Mark will give me a test image, I'll be glad to run it, John. Then Mark MHMG can measure and chart the results.
I can also do comparisons between the Z9+ 464 profile and the Z9+ Aardenburg/Lindquist 10445 profile.
-Mark
-
Mark,
That would be cool. As with our other tests, we could see at what point with bw the extended profiles add what advantages in terms of tonal ramp as well as neutrality. What we found with the Z3200 was the actual neutrality of the print was different, and improved.
I just can't imagine HP not offering the ability as in APS to create your own targets, at least in the 700-2000 patch range since they have the hardware sitting right there in front of them.
I'll send you the same file that I printed last time.
John
That will be great John. It will be interesting to make the comparisons. Re: the ESP - I've had numerous discussions with the product manager and the Z6/Z9 team, and they say they are considering it. I have been told (and this is a direct quote): "...remember that we have changed the color pipeline, so it’s not just a “put it back” from the previous platforms."
I am taking a wait and see stance on the embedded spectrophotometer issue for now, trusting that HP will do the right thing - that being right for them, or right for us, or under the best of circumstances, "right" for both HP and us.
I'm learning that these things just don't happen overnight, and progress is slow on requests. After all, they have their agenda, and no doubt there are much more pressing priorities that the team is working on that unquestionably take precedence right now. The Z9+ Product Manager in Barcelona is a good guy, and he understands the request. Hopefully it will be just a matter of time. We will have to wait and see.
Really, having a good, fast, accurate ESP in the printer is so critical, and I'm just thankful they have it still, and the ability to install profiles in the color center in the Utility.
Mark
-
Actually, the physics behind dilute Lm, Lc, and Lk and why manufacturers rolled out this technology with photo printers in the late 1990s was more than just about reducing dot pattern/grain appearance in light and midtone colors. The physics of a darker single color dot surrounded by more white space to achieve the lightness value required leads to reduced chroma compared to a few dots of more dilute colorant placed in overlapping fashion with better covering power (i.e. reduced white area on paper). So, the Lc and Lm also help extend color gamut in the light colors. Lk helps with grain, and Ly isn't necessary because yellow is such a light and low contrast color to begin with.
Hi Mark, thank you for the insight! That is what happens in offset lithography when printing with small micron FM screens compared to AM screens. I thought about that after I posted my reply and it is great to hear you specifically raising this point.
they could also have split the difference in pigment concentration as well. The M, and C and Gray inks used on the Z9 may well be more dilute and closer in density to the Z3200's Lm, Lc, and Lk than to the Z3200 L, C, and Gray ink.
You can measure solids from the calibration chart for each of the Z3200 and Z9+ on the same paper. This might help you figure out if the inks are indeed more dilute.
but my tentative conclusion, at least for matte fine art paper, is that the Z9's color gamut difference compared to the Z3200 is the opposite of what I would have anticipated. It does better, yes better even without the Lc and Lm in printing into the highlights, but sacrifices a little in the darker colors compared to the Z9.
Did you mean "the darker colors compared to the Z3200"?
Go figure!
It stands to reason that a more chromatic ink, printed with smaller dots, could produce more gamut in the highlights than a more diluted ink but delivered with large dots. But this "more chromatic ink" might be a little less chromatic than the original L, C and Gray as you suggested, hence the slight loss of dark colour gamut.
HP engineers could also be relying more on the new chromata red, green, and blue when printing into light pastel colors on the print surface.
That should be pretty easy to verify by looking at light colours with a loupe/microscope.
They can and did change the screening algorithm dramatically, hence the market speak about "pixel control" technology".
It is still not clear to me that they are achieving "deeper colours" or "smoother transitions" than before. But perhaps they are actually able to print with greater detail than before. It would be interesting if you or Mark Lindquist do note an observable detail difference as your investigation progresses.
-
I'm answering my own question: Ink drop 7/3 pl dual-drop weight (M, C, PK, CB, G); 6 pl single-drop weight (Y, CR, MK, CG). This would explain the rather coarse dot pattern I've seen in reds.
Also possibly answers my question about detail reproduction:
Line accuracy ±0.1%5
Minimum line width 0.0008 in (0.02 mm) (PDF addressable @ 1200 dpi)
Guaranteed minimum line width 0.0031 in (0.08 mm) (ISO/IEC 13660:2001(E))6
I understand that the Z3200 maximum native input resolution was 600ppi, and it seems that the Z9+ now accepts 1200ppi files as do some of the smaller newer printer models? Perhaps Mark McCormick-Goodhart or Mark Lindquist could confirm this detail.
Taken from HP's data sheet (http://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/GetPDF.aspx/4AA7-2603ENA.pdf).
-
Also possibly answers my question about detail reproduction:
I understand that the Z3200 maximum native input resolution was 600ppi, and it seems that the Z9+ now accepts 1200ppi files as do some of the smaller newer printer models? Perhaps Mark McCormick-Goodhart or Mark Lindquist could confirm this detail.
Oh, the service manual confirms that it does accept 1200ppi (you'll need to check the right boxes, screenshot as attachment)! Thanks Mark for the very useful document. It will take a while to absorb.
-
If you look at page 6 of the service manual, you'll see "Theory of Operation" schematics which will explain it much better than I can. ( https://shared.swissparts.ch/manuals/HP/Plotter/HP%20Designjet%20T1700,T1708,Z9,Z6%20Service%20Manual.pdf )
What an excellent resource, thanks for sharing the document!
I don't know if you call that synthesized, or not.
Mark, PM me your email and I can send you a target of mostly synthetic gradients which might make a rigorous test form to verify HP's claims about Pixel Control.
Yeah, IMO demonstrations really don't tell the real story. For the most part, the operators doing the demos aren't specifically trained in serious work with the printers, again, IMO
Unfortunately, the demo was performed by an independent professional in the fine art printing trade with a decade's experience on the Z3200. If I do decide that the Z9+ deserves serious consideration, I would also rigorously investigate these issues with an actual printer. I'll make a careful note of your success with media handling.
-
What an excellent resource, thanks for sharing the document!
Mark, PM me your email and I can send you a target of mostly synthetic gradients which might make a rigorous test form to verify HP's claims about Pixel Control.
Unfortunately, the demo was performed by an independent professional in the fine art printing trade with a decade's experience on the Z3200. If I do decide that the Z9+ deserves serious consideration, I would also rigorously investigate these issues with an actual printer. I'll make a careful note of your success with media handling.
Samuel,
It's important to note that while many folks load paper "by the book" or the recommended way HP suggests, most print artists quickly find the fastest and surest methods for themselves, then that information gets shared. Being able to get 99% success sheet loading the Z9+ by placing a thin, lightweight metal guide on the lower metal loading platform using double-sided stick tape is a very easy quick fix and amazingly effective. It's akin to the way people printing canvas on the Z3200 use the thin slot between the trim on the Z3200 to place a utility knife or safety razor to trim canvas. Also similar to Ernst Dinkla's (and many other's) method of loading sheets directly on top of the paper roll or spindle, taking the same path of the roll paper when loading the Z3100-3200 models.
The main point is that the Z9+ has a very sturdy metal platform that is a straight loading path - no curves, no bends, etc., and the Z9+ has a unique method of loading and adjusting the paper for skew check internally rather than requiring lifting the handle to readjust the paper. In some cases, the printer will require realigning the paper to the blue lines in the front, but by the time that happens, the printer lets go of the paper automatically and allows for repositioning very easily and the automated illustrations instruct to that effect.
Surprisingly, the paper path for loading sheet rolls creates a back-curl via the paper path, which does actually work to remove paper curl in tight rolls. Unfortunately, this works at odds with the already loaded paper at the very end of the roll, and can cause issues. As previously stated, it's a matter of resource management. Roll out the paper, decurl it and use it by loading the left over as a roll, when in fact it no longer is on the roll, or simply cut the end of the roll into sheets that can be de-curled and used at a later time. This is the art of the work-around that I was talking about. For those who are put off by this, then get a canon or Epson printer and eventually pay the price of clogged heads which will in fact inevitably raise its ugly head. There are always trade-offs with every printer, so it's a "pick your poison" kind of thing. Having the ability to change a generic printhead out at any given time even if/when questionable performance occurs is priceless, to me. And HP has this locked in, just as it has been with the previous Z Series printers. It is quite extraordinary when you think of it that a single low cost generic printhead that is for two colors which costs less than $100 (for two colors in one printhead) which is so quickly and easily replaced compares to having to replace entire printheads modules in the other printers. This function alone puts the Z9+ in another class from the other printers by far.
I actually use low tables that are at the front and rear of the printer at heights close to the ingress and egress openings for special projects. That way, I can be assured that flat paper stays flat both going in and coming out. This is a bit of a pain setting up, but not as bad as it seems, since the Z9+ is still a lightweight printer similarly to the Z3200's and it rolls around easily. I often roll the printer to right angles to the wall for loading and printing, then return it to it's "docking position" when finished .
I can't say much about front top) loading heavy sheets, it's a pain so I stick with the simple pass thorough pass in the rear. I guarantee that just loading paper rolls is a bit awkward, particularly as their is a heavy plastic cowl that swivels back over the roll when loaded, seems tricky, but in time that should change when once having come to terms with it all, which just takes practice and an understanding of tips and tricks for loading in the most efficient and successful manner. The Z9+ spindle is motor driven unlike the Z3200 series. The spindle has a toothed gear on the left (driving) side which engages once steps have been met for loading. The loading of both sheets and rolls are specified through a set of guided instructions, animated illustrations actually, which lead you on a path toward proper loading, or at least the method which HP prescribes. So that's new and different. The spindle ultimately rolls in and back out and tightens up slack in the roll, something very welcome compared to the Z3200's. Ultimately, this system will work in concert with a takeup reel which comes standard on some models and is available as an accessory on others.
Thanks for your questions and comments Samuel.
Mark
-
Mark, glad to see you are reviewing the printer. I have had my 44" running since December. Some very quick comments.
1. It has sat for weeks while I have been away and I have had no clogging issues. Big improvement over my 7900. I'm really pleased with this.
2. Paper loading is frustrating - esp with rolls of heavy gsm paper (e.g. Epson Cold Press Nat which I am finishing up)
3. I appreciate the tip about taping a metal guide for the rear sheet load as single sheet loads have been a pain....can you be a bit more specific about what you did?
4. I have generated about half-a-dozen custom profiles and have struggled with this as some of the ICC profiles, when mapped on Mac's ColorSync Utility show strange tails in the blue - and I think this affecting the prints. I have a case in play with HP about this. I am going to re-do some of these this week to see if I can make this go away. If we could do on similar paper and compare it would be interesting to see if I have a spectrometer issue.
5. I had one large roll banner to print, 44x80" and the driver out of MacOs 10.14 using LR would not permit me to specify a length of more than 66". I suspect a bug in the driver and have a case open on this as well for about 5 weeks with no progress.
-
Mark, glad to see you are reviewing the printer. I have had my 44" running since December. Some very quick comments.
1. It has sat for weeks while I have been away and I have had no clogging issues. Big improvement over my 7900. I'm really pleased with this.
2. Paper loading is frustrating - esp with rolls of heavy gsm paper (e.g. Epson Cold Press Nat which I am finishing up)
3. I appreciate the tip about taping a metal guide for the rear sheet load as single sheet loads have been a pain....can you be a bit more specific about what you did?
4. I have generated about half-a-dozen custom profiles and have struggled with this as some of the ICC profiles, when mapped on Mac's ColorSync Utility show strange tails in the blue - and I think this affecting the prints. I have a case in play with HP about this. I am going to re-do some of these this week to see if I can make this go away. If we could do on similar paper and compare it would be interesting to see if I have a spectrometer issue.
5. I had one large roll banner to print, 44x80" and the driver out of MacOs 10.14 using LR would not permit me to specify a length of more than 66". I suspect a bug in the driver and have a case open on this as well for about 5 weeks with no progress.
Hi Jim -
Very good news about no clogging while sitting several weeks. Thanks for that report.
Yeah, paper loading is a pain, but I've learned to wear uncoated latex gloves that have good grip, and carefully load the paper, not worrying about getting finger prints on it. It's a problem loading because of the cowl and the tigthness of the loading area. I've learned to live with it and I took an old roll of paper not being used and practiced many times loading, and I think I've got good technique now.
I appreciate the cowl HP included - it was something many of us asked for.
If you want to make some custom profiles on Moab Entrada Natural I'll compare with you.
I assume you are using the PS driver to print lengthy images? You may need to print those with Qimage.
Here is the info on the prototype guide I made and use on my Z9+. Very simple, very easy and super effective.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Good to know all these things.
Best -
Mark
-
g'morning, follow up to Mark's reply on my z9+ comments....
Some followups today - I am going to generate some new ICC profiles and see if I can eliminate the strange tail I have on them. This one is from Epson PLPP-260. This is displayed using Mac's ColorSync Utility but a friend who has ColorThink says the tails do not show up on his software when he views it.....nonetheless I think it's wrong.
I am working on the MOAB Entrada issue. I have a box of 11x17" Moab Rag - but I can't generate a profile because it's too small a sheet. I am seeing some paper samples this afternoon.
I'm getting a couple more paper spindles to make swapping rolls easier. I find the cores really hard to extract from the rolls. The Epson 7900 had a much easier system for exchanging rolls and snapping them into place on their spindles. But the extra spindles are about $60ea so it's not a deal breaker to make it easier.
So, more on the Qimage-Banner issue. Originally I tried to print 44w x 80h using the PostScript driver....and I got the message shown in the screenshot - which indicates the sheet image has a maximum length of 66". I finally managed to print it using HpClick - but that is not very usable Fine Art Printing software and I am unclear on how Color Management works with it. I downloaded Qimage, set it up for the Z9+ at 44-80" and was able to render out a PDF ... but I didn't let it fly to the printer since I wasn't about to blow another 7 feet of paper. Have you seen an error like this before ? I'll try Qimage next time I need to do something this big - but that may be a while since I don't do many of these.
Attachments (1) Goofy ICC Proile depiction in ColorSync, (2) screen shot of PS Printer Driver error via LR
-
For a cheap test of a large print I use this: HP A1 C6035A Bright White Inkjet Paper Roll 610mm x 45m (24") which is only $24 for 45 meters.
-
I really don’t get how HP could have screwed up paper feeding once again. Come on it’s a new printer you had a clean slate. It should have been improved to other printers on the market not worse.... this really puts me off.
-
Screenshot of error message preventing the Z9+ from printing more than 65" with the PS printer driver.
jc
-
That sucks, Lightroom too?
How long can you print from the Z3200/ 3100s out of recent Photoshop CC ? I only used QImage for that.
Screenshot of error message preventing the Z9+ from printing more than 65" with the PS printer driver.
jc
-
Screenshot of error message preventing the Z9+ from printing more than 65" with the PS printer driver.
jc
Length limitations with the Z3100 were related to what type of drivers were installed. But even then you could print up to something like 2.5 meter, say 100¨. Windows PCL + HPGL drivers solved that at the time and more than 5 meter was possible. The Z3200-PS with the PCL3 installed does that too.
I see the Z9+ has a Windows PCL3 driver next to a PS driver.
I used to test print lengths with an affordable paper taped to a loop and the length numbers put in the image file. Use the paper move function in the printer panel to create the loop.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
Just to clarify for everyone:
The maximum length of a sheet that can be printed on the Z9+ is 66 inches (same as the Z3100-Z3200ps printers.)
The maximum length that can be printed on a roll depends on each software limitation. Theoretically, one should be able to print about 99 feet out of a 100 ft roll, etc.
These limitations are definitely imposed by the software - PS, LR, etc.
Qimage confirms this in that it apparently has no roll print length limitation (other than the end of the roll) that I am aware of. (Please correct me if I'm wrong about Qimage)
I looked into the drivers for the Z9+ and printed 77" from a loaded roll via the raster driver and the PS driver with no problem using both Lightroom Classic and PSCC other than it was slow spooling each print.
My machine is a Mac running OS 10.14.2 Mojave.
Mark
-
I had some success yesterday, too. I installed the Raster Driver - Version 52 (most recent download from HP) and was finally able to print the 80" long run ... so I suspect it was an issue with the PS driver. I'm running Mac Mojave, 10.14.6, Mac Pro 2013 and LR Desktop 8.4.
But the loading was very slow. I was checking it on Mac's activity monitor and it was spooling at 400KB - 700KB (kilo-bytes) per second. This is on a gigabit ethernet connection which should have achieved something in the region of 40-50MB (mega-bytes) per second...maybe a bit less, but the rate I've observed is about 1/50th of what the connection should allow.
-
I had some success yesterday, too. I installed the Raster Driver - Version 52 (most recent download from HP) and was finally able to print the 80" long run ... so I suspect it was an issue with the PS driver. I'm running Mac Mojave, 10.14.6, Mac Pro 2013 and LR Desktop 8.4.
But the loading was very slow. I was checking it on Mac's activity monitor and it was spooling at 400KB - 700KB (kilo-bytes) per second. This is on a gigabit ethernet connection which should have achieved something in the region of 40-50MB (mega-bytes) per second...maybe a bit less, but the rate I've observed is about 1/50th of what the connection should allow.
Wondering how you're making out with the print spooling speed now Jim? Recently I had an issue and restarted everything - computers, printers, LAN switches - everything in the studio including the server and then powered it all back up again and voila - issue gone. So interested in knowing if you're still having issues?
-Mark
-
Hi Mark, thanks for following up...I posted some time ago on the 'other' thread we've been using that I resolved it by using a fixed, internal IP address, instead of installing via Bonjour which was the default. After converting to the fixed IP, the printing speed was completely resolved.
jc
-
Hi Mark, thanks for following up...I posted some time ago on the 'other' thread we've been using that I resolved it by using a fixed, internal IP address, instead of installing via Bonjour which was the default. After converting to the fixed IP, the printing speed was completely resolved.
jc
OK - I missed that Jim - Thanks very much - glad to hear that.
Mark
-
Hi Mark,
thanks for the responses on the noise. :) I asked before.
I have now got 9+ 24" on order to replace my 44" Z3200
I ordered with the optional gloss enhancer kit - as I saw one need to discard a print head if one add the gloss enhancer AFTER initial setup of the printer. If you buy the printer and the Gloss enhancer - you should be able to save the print head included with the Gloss Enhancer kit for "later use"
So does anyone need a Z3200 44" London area with 2 boxes of Ink + spare new ink tube kit?
:)
Thanks again Mark - would not have pushed the trigger without you.
/k
-
Hi Mark, thanks for following up...I posted some time ago on the 'other' thread we've been using that I resolved it by using a fixed, internal IP address, instead of installing via Bonjour which was the default. After converting to the fixed IP, the printing speed was completely resolved.
jc
On the 'old' z3100 it was exactly the same i use a fixed IP address and not bonjour.
BTW i use system 13.6 and it seems i can run a print of 44 inch wide and 350 inch long using photoshop 2020... no rip needed.
In the past i have made prints up to 300cm long = 118inch
-
On the 'old' z3100 it was exactly the same i use a fixed IP address and not bonjour.
BTW i use system 13.6 and it seems i can run a print of 44 inch wide and 350 inch long using photoshop 2020... no rip needed.
In the past i have made prints up to 300cm long = 118inch
The Z9+ printer comes with an HP Jet Direct card for LAN and WiFi connection. When setting up an ip address (with Mac) when adding a printer in system preferences, choose IP and type in the static IP address you want, then at the drop down for connection type, choose "Jet Direct Socket" and it will absolutely hook right up.
Mark
-
Just a little followup on the Z9+ 24" I have purchased.
It arrived on Thursday.
Thursday/Friday was spent taking the Z3200 down and setting up the Z9.
/rant......
Unfortunately I seems I got a DUD. So post firmware update (which installed a 1 year old FW) - and Gloss Optimizer init - then Ink Line pre fill - I then went on to install the print heads.
All went ok - apart from printer did not like the Chromatic Red / Cyan. Every time I got an error saying the head needed replacing.
I then replaced it with the spare I had from the Gloss Enhancer kit - and voila - same error.
I contacted HP Service - who thinks it is the PCA. And since I have tried two print heads to get it to work - they would then send 2 new print heads.
Since I have next day business service - I expected them to arrive today at some point (it is 3pm here now)
But nothing - not even a call or a mail. So I called.
Well i turns out that HP does not have the Print heads in stock? So they can't send out an engineer.....
I do not know who runs the service department in the UK - but not having spare print-heads in the service department seems like an absolute major failure. Even a "used" spare would not matter if one could just get the printer functional and not DOA.
So right now - I'm getting very worried. I have a lot of prints to do - and about 1/2 the inks are not in stock with HP (plus print heads)
And I have a non functional brand new printer.
So I'm actually considering returning the printer - not for the performance - but from the lack of spare parts from HP Service in the UK and their complete lack of communications.
/rant over
So what would you do?
/k
-
Just a little followup on the Z9+ 24" I have purchased.
It arrived on Thursday.
Thursday/Friday was spent taking the Z3200 down and setting up the Z9.
/rant......
Unfortunately I seems I got a DUD. So post firmware update (which installed a 1 year old FW) - and Gloss Optimizer init - then Ink Line pre fill - I then went on to install the print heads.
All went ok - apart from printer did not like the Chromatic Red / Cyan. Every time I got an error saying the head needed replacing.
I then replaced it with the spare I had from the Gloss Enhancer kit - and voila - same error.
I contacted HP Service - who thinks it is the PCA. And since I have tried two print heads to get it to work - they would then send 2 new print heads.
Since I have next day business service - I expected them to arrive today at some point (it is 3pm here now)
But nothing - not even a call or a mail. So I called.
Well i turns out that HP does not have the Print heads in stock? So they can't send out an engineer.....
I do not know who runs the service department in the UK - but not having spare print-heads in the service department seems like an absolute major failure. Even a "used" spare would not matter if one could just get the printer functional and not DOA.
So right now - I'm getting very worried. I have a lot of prints to do - and about 1/2 the inks are not in stock with HP (plus print heads)
And I have a non functional brand new printer.
So I'm actually considering returning the printer - not for the performance - but from the lack of spare parts from HP Service in the UK and their complete lack of communications.
/rant over
So what would you do?
/k
I wouldn't retire the 3200 before the Z9+ was fully functional and running and even then I would keep the older printer as a backup.
-
I wouldn't retire the 3200 before the Z9+ was fully functional and running and even then I would keep the older printer as a backup.
I did not have space for both. I still have the z3200 in the garage.
But do others have supply issues of Ink and Printheads - HP UK is sold out on 1/2 the supplies for the Z series.
-
Yes HP USA and IT Supplies that I use. There are other places.
https://www.itsupplies.com/HP-DesignJet-Z3200-Inks-s/2824.htm?searching=Y&sort=5&cat=2824&show=32&page=1
https://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/ink--toner---paper/hp-70-ink-cartridges?jumpid=ps_ewjftdzmh1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvLe55o-Y5gIVh4bACh0tvgi9EAAYASAAEgJcx_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#!&tab=vao
John
I did not have space for both. I still have the z3200 in the garage.
But do others have supply issues of Ink and Printheads - HP UK is sold out on 1/2 the supplies for the Z series.
-
Yes HP USA and IT Supplies that I use. There are other places.
https://www.itsupplies.com/HP-DesignJet-Z3200-Inks-s/2824.htm?searching=Y&sort=5&cat=2824&show=32&page=1
https://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/ink--toner---paper/hp-70-ink-cartridges?jumpid=ps_ewjftdzmh1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvLe55o-Y5gIVh4bACh0tvgi9EAAYASAAEgJcx_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds#!&tab=vao
John
HP have plenty of ink and supplies for the Z3200 - but more than 50% out of stock for the Z9 https://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Ink-Toner-Paper.aspx?query=HP+DESIGNJET+Z9%2BDR+44-IN+POSTSCRIPT+PRINTER+WITH+V-TRIMMER&product=X9D24A&type=Printer&model=HP-DesignJet-Z9%2Bdr-44-in-PostScript-Printer-with-V-Trimmer-Ink
4 inks in stock out of 10
and no printheads in stock.
And HP has still not come back with a date for the repair people to arrive.
/k
-
Wow. If I just bought one I’d be freaked out and pissed during the holiday season. You can’t function like that.
HP have plenty of ink and supplies for the Z3200 - but more than 50% out of stock for the Z9 https://store.hp.com/UKStore/Merch/Ink-Toner-Paper.aspx?query=HP+DESIGNJET+Z9%2BDR+44-IN+POSTSCRIPT+PRINTER+WITH+V-TRIMMER&product=X9D24A&type=Printer&model=HP-DesignJet-Z9%2Bdr-44-in-PostScript-Printer-with-V-Trimmer-Ink
4 inks in stock out of 10
and no printheads in stock.
And HP has still not come back with a date for the repair people to arrive.
/k
-
Well I got really freaked out today...
Our Logistics Team is currently making every effort to source the parts so we can support you as soon as possible.
We apologize for the inconvenience and will keep you informed on the evolution of the situation.
If you have any queries please feel free to contact us regarding the REPAIR STATUS
ETA 31-Dec-2019
UK: 02076600403
Ireland: 014118932
RSA : 0216724036
Best regards
Yes notice the date....
The above date is because they do not have print heads available until next year...
In the meantime I managed to source my own NEW printhead (the old ones might work) - but they would not send out engineer without (print)head.
After hours on the phone - I now have an engineer coming out tomorrow with main PCA + new ribbon cable.
If they can't fix it tomorrow - it is going back for good.
-
Well I got really freaked out today...
Yes notice the date....
The above date is because they do not have print heads available until next year...
In the meantime I managed to source my own NEW printhead (the old ones might work) - but they would not send out engineer without (print)head.
After hours on the phone - I now have an engineer coming out tomorrow with main PCA + new ribbon cable.
If they can't fix it tomorrow - it is going back for good.
btw. I do only think the connector for the print head cable has fallen out. I only get 1 print head with errors - but there are NO traces of ink on the bottom of any of the print heads. But a few of the call center people do not really want to listen very well.
-
As Bloomberg reported last month, HP is laying off many thousands of people, I think the majority of the layoffs from their print division.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-03/hp-inc-to-cut-as-much-as-16-of-workforce-amid-print-unit-woes
Apparently they were selling their office printer at near cost to make the cash on their ink, and people for a decade or more were using tons of cheap third party dye ink in those units. They let it go on and on and on. Sounds like just horrible management. I expected to see some of those negative implications hit us now.
John
btw. I do only think the connector for the print head cable has fallen out. I only get 1 print head with errors - but there are NO traces of ink on the bottom of any of the print heads. But a few of the call center people do not really want to listen very well.
-
Progress report:
Arranged for HP to come out today first thing - so roughly 9AM and agreed they HAD to finish before 1PM.
HP Main office then sent spare parts to the 3rd party service company. (minus the cartridges that are not in stock)
Well - HP UK - sent the parts to the WRONG 3rd party service company office. So poor service guy had to drive for another 2 1/2 hours to collect the parts. So he arrived at 12:05pm
And then he did some diagnostics - and the Carriage PCA - said most voltages was wrong. So then he tore down the Z9 - and put a new PCB in. I managed to arrange for me being able to leave at 1:45pm and not 1pm. At 1:30pm the printer got turned back on - and passed voltage diagnostics. Inks and Print heads went back in - and the printer started it's "Startup Ink Cartridge" Program - and then it was time for me to leave - so we left the printer be printer and sort itself out.
So all in all the 3rd party repair guy - was great!
HP not so much.
But I came home at 4:30pm - and printer was working.
Conclusion - HP is a MESS.. But once service people gets the parts they do a darn fine job.
But HP has problems with all parts. Printheads are not available until between Dec 12th and Dec 29th.... Inks.. Unknown. Luckily I have an almost full set of Inks and 1 spare print-head.
Random Initial Comments / Impressions about printer and utilities :
1. Printer seems to saturate slightly more than the Z3200. On my favorite "Day to Day" Paper (Colourbyte Satin 190gsm) I had to turn it down to the Low Ink printer profile for Glossy. That was never an issue on the Z3200. (To much ink will show on the colourbyte as slight smear and like extra honeycomb outline inside the lower rows of saturated red/blue honeycomb patterns.)
2. Accounting... In latest firmware - something seriously wrong. Sometimes it will show a small print job has used 70ml of ink. And often costs shows for about 1/2 second and then goes to zero - while you look at it? Tried multiple browsers with same result.
3. HP DesignJet utility - Sync Paper presets sometimes can't be started (grayed out) - have not found the cause - but then you can't select the right paper - and then printer wont print... (unless you override)
4. You can change the currently selected paper profile on inserted paper via the printer front panel - not via the Web Interface or DesignJet utility? (At least I have not found a way)
5. HP DesignJet utility - latest Windows version is not downloadable? 404 - File not found error on HP's server? (6.0.7.4641) (https://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/printers/HP_DesignJet_Utility_6.0.7.4641.exe)
6. Authorized Dealers are no longer dealers - they are just box-shifters with limited knowledge despite their "DesignJet certifications...."
7. Z9 is not as easy to tear down or service as the Z3200.
8. I LOVE the silence - when printer goes to power save mode it is practically silent. Not like the 747 Z3200 fan sounds. Yes it wakes up from time to time for head clean - but that is fine. And it uses about 7 watt in "standby" mode which is also a lot better than the Z3200.
9. Display on printer does not seem quite optimized. It seems like it is running code for something that was supposed to be running on a slightly larger display. So lots of things needs horizontal scrolling - where a smaller font would have been absolutely fine even for my presbyopia "enhanced" vision.
10. Inks and start up - the whole startup of mine ate about 50% of the "initial" ink cartridges (before the first print) - So 27-35 ml / cartridge before ink lines and print heads are "full" and ready to rock and roll. (And 12% of the Gloss Enhancer 300ml cartridge from the GE Kit)
11. And a brand new printer with a Carriage PCA failure - should simply not happen. The board is so darn simple. Just a lot of capacitors - an STM32 processor and an advanced voltage controller (i think based on my quick view)
I hope HP can put some effort into optimizing their supply chain and service. Else it won't be long before it is only Epson or Canon.
But my printer is working - and we are getting to know each-other. It will be a few days before we are on first name basis - but it is so far showing promise, apart from all the wrenches HP tries to throw in the machinery.
-
I’m sure it will straighten out.
Epson had a lot of crazy software issues for the first year with their P10k/ 20k printers and it seems like once the firmware was straightened out they unveiled a completely different 12 channel model. So they’ve got three versions of a 44 aqueous printer going on at once that they have to supply ink and parts for. We don’t know if the 12 channel units will be clogger ink wasters like recent history or not. Maybe I’m jaded but I suspect they will. Canon had a great reliable 44 model then had to screw with it and loose 1/3 of the image permanence pretty much for no reason at, at least for photographers.
As for support, I’ve always found my HP on-site techs to be far more knowledgeable, professional, and well trained than the people from Decision One for Epson, or Pitney Bowles for Canon. They have also just been nicer people and get the job done faster. I guess this could vary from region to region. As far as software goes HP has been a mess and the website a joke, but thankfully once you are set up things just work beautifully and in my case always stable.
All I can say is I’m so dependent on my z3200 just being available and dependable and my canon too that I just don’t know what I would buy if one of these went down in terms of newer models. The idea of buying a whole expensive print head and the labor with that when one nozzle out of 12 nozzles goes bad just seems insane to me now.
The new universal head design that is super easy to replace with the Z9 is just awesome. And you need fewer of them now. Let’s hope they keep the supply chain going. I worry more and more about substandard parts being made in China and as trade wars continue the availability of parts may be our new issue to deal with.
I just wish we had ai robots in the country where we live making these things. That’s where it’s going ultimately I hope.
John
Progress report:
Arranged for HP to come out today first thing - so roughly 9AM and agreed they HAD to finish before 1PM.
HP Main office then sent spare parts to the 3rd party service company. (minus the cartridges that are not in stock)
Well - HP UK - sent the parts to the WRONG 3rd party service company office. So poor service guy had to drive for another 2 1/2 hours to collect the parts. So he arrived at 12:05pm
And then he did some diagnostics - and the Carriage PCA - said most voltages was wrong. So then he tore down the Z9 - and put a new PCB in. I managed to arrange for me being able to leave at 1:45pm and not 1pm. At 1:30pm the printer got turned back on - and passed voltage diagnostics. Inks and Print heads went back in - and the printer started it's "Startup Ink Cartridge" Program - and then it was time for me to leave - so we left the printer be printer and sort itself out.
So all in all the 3rd party repair guy - was great!
HP not so much.
But I came home at 4:30pm - and printer was working.
Conclusion - HP is a MESS.. But once service people gets the parts they do a darn fine job.
But HP has problems with all parts. Printheads are not available until between Dec 12th and Dec 29th.... Inks.. Unknown. Luckily I have an almost full set of Inks and 1 spare print-head.
Random Initial Comments / Impressions about printer and utilities :
1. Printer seems to saturate slightly more than the Z3200. On my favorite "Day to Day" Paper (Colourbyte Satin 190gsm) I had to turn it down to the Low Ink printer profile for Glossy. That was never an issue on the Z3200. (To much ink will show on the colourbyte as slight smear and like extra honeycomb outline inside the lower rows of saturated red/blue honeycomb patterns.)
2. Accounting... In latest firmware - something seriously wrong. Sometimes it will show a small print job has used 70ml of ink. And often costs shows for about 1/2 second and then goes to zero - while you look at it? Tried multiple browsers with same result.
3. HP DesignJet utility - Sync Paper presets sometimes can't be started (grayed out) - have not found the cause - but then you can't select the right paper - and then printer wont print... (unless you override)
4. You can change the currently selected paper profile on inserted paper via the printer front panel - not via the Web Interface or DesignJet utility? (At least I have not found a way)
5. HP DesignJet utility - latest Windows version is not downloadable? 404 - File not found error on HP's server? (6.0.7.4641) (https://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/printers/HP_DesignJet_Utility_6.0.7.4641.exe)
6. Authorized Dealers are no longer dealers - they are just box-shifters with limited knowledge despite their "DesignJet certifications...."
7. Z9 is not as easy to tear down or service as the Z3200.
8. I LOVE the silence - when printer goes to power save mode it is practically silent. Not like the 747 Z3200 fan sounds. Yes it wakes up from time to time for head clean - but that is fine. And it uses about 7 watt in "standby" mode which is also a lot better than the Z3200.
9. Display on printer does not seem quite optimized. It seems like it is running code for something that was supposed to be running on a slightly larger display. So lots of things needs horizontal scrolling - where a smaller font would have been absolutely fine even for my presbyopia "enhanced" vision.
10. Inks and start up - the whole startup of mine ate about 50% of the "initial" ink cartridges (before the first print) - So 27-35 ml / cartridge before ink lines and print heads are "full" and ready to rock and roll. (And 12% of the Gloss Enhancer 300ml cartridge from the GE Kit)
11. And a brand new printer with a Carriage PCA failure - should simply not happen. The board is so darn simple. Just a lot of capacitors - an STM32 processor and an advanced voltage controller (i think based on my quick view)
I hope HP can put some effort into optimizing their supply chain and service. Else it won't be long before it is only Epson or Canon.
But my printer is working - and we are getting to know each-other. It will be a few days before we are on first name basis - but it is so far showing promise, apart from all the wrenches HP tries to throw in the machinery.
-
... I worry more and more about substandard parts being made in China and as trade wars continue the availability of parts may be our new issue to deal with.
I just wish we had ai robots in the country where we live making these things. That’s where it’s going ultimately I hope.
John
Those AI Robots will also come from China... and AI is not that intelligent yet... You may hope it can distinguish the printhead from your own...
-
Kaz, I sense your frustration and feel the pain. No one wants to buy a sophisticated and expensive device that doesn't work correctly straight out of the box. FWIW, I'm in the US not UK, and I order many supplies form B&H Photo, a big photographic dealer in New York city. All Z9 inks and the printhead are currently in stock there. I recently ordered a spare print head last week for my new Z9, and it arrived within 24 hours. I also had a connectivity issue with my new Z9 (mainly due to unique circumstances with my studio's wifi network) and the HP tech support guy located in Canada gave me a brilliant solution to my problem on my first call to HP support. So, I think HP may be covering some regional territories better than others which is unfortunate for sure, but I hope you hang In there. When the Z9 is up and running correctly, it's a pretty impressive printer.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
Progress report:
Arranged for HP to come out today first thing - so roughly 9AM and agreed they HAD to finish before 1PM.
HP Main office then sent spare parts to the 3rd party service company. (minus the cartridges that are not in stock)
Well - HP UK - sent the parts to the WRONG 3rd party service company office. So poor service guy had to drive for another 2 1/2 hours to collect the parts. So he arrived at 12:05pm
And then he did some diagnostics - and the Carriage PCA - said most voltages was wrong. So then he tore down the Z9 - and put a new PCB in. I managed to arrange for me being able to leave at 1:45pm and not 1pm. At 1:30pm the printer got turned back on - and passed voltage diagnostics. Inks and Print heads went back in - and the printer started it's "Startup Ink Cartridge" Program - and then it was time for me to leave - so we left the printer be printer and sort itself out.
So all in all the 3rd party repair guy - was great!
HP not so much.
But I came home at 4:30pm - and printer was working.
Conclusion - HP is a MESS.. But once service people gets the parts they do a darn fine job.
But HP has problems with all parts. Printheads are not available until between Dec 12th and Dec 29th.... Inks.. Unknown. Luckily I have an almost full set of Inks and 1 spare print-head.
Random Initial Comments / Impressions about printer and utilities :
1. Printer seems to saturate slightly more than the Z3200. On my favorite "Day to Day" Paper (Colourbyte Satin 190gsm) I had to turn it down to the Low Ink printer profile for Glossy. That was never an issue on the Z3200. (To much ink will show on the colourbyte as slight smear and like extra honeycomb outline inside the lower rows of saturated red/blue honeycomb patterns.)
2. Accounting... In latest firmware - something seriously wrong. Sometimes it will show a small print job has used 70ml of ink. And often costs shows for about 1/2 second and then goes to zero - while you look at it? Tried multiple browsers with same result.
3. HP DesignJet utility - Sync Paper presets sometimes can't be started (grayed out) - have not found the cause - but then you can't select the right paper - and then printer wont print... (unless you override)
4. You can change the currently selected paper profile on inserted paper via the printer front panel - not via the Web Interface or DesignJet utility? (At least I have not found a way)
5. HP DesignJet utility - latest Windows version is not downloadable? 404 - File not found error on HP's server? (6.0.7.4641) (https://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/printers/HP_DesignJet_Utility_6.0.7.4641.exe)
6. Authorized Dealers are no longer dealers - they are just box-shifters with limited knowledge despite their "DesignJet certifications...."
7. Z9 is not as easy to tear down or service as the Z3200.
8. I LOVE the silence - when printer goes to power save mode it is practically silent. Not like the 747 Z3200 fan sounds. Yes it wakes up from time to time for head clean - but that is fine. And it uses about 7 watt in "standby" mode which is also a lot better than the Z3200.
9. Display on printer does not seem quite optimized. It seems like it is running code for something that was supposed to be running on a slightly larger display. So lots of things needs horizontal scrolling - where a smaller font would have been absolutely fine even for my presbyopia "enhanced" vision.
10. Inks and start up - the whole startup of mine ate about 50% of the "initial" ink cartridges (before the first print) - So 27-35 ml / cartridge before ink lines and print heads are "full" and ready to rock and roll. (And 12% of the Gloss Enhancer 300ml cartridge from the GE Kit)
11. And a brand new printer with a Carriage PCA failure - should simply not happen. The board is so darn simple. Just a lot of capacitors - an STM32 processor and an advanced voltage controller (i think based on my quick view)
I hope HP can put some effort into optimizing their supply chain and service. Else it won't be long before it is only Epson or Canon.
But my printer is working - and we are getting to know each-other. It will be a few days before we are on first name basis - but it is so far showing promise, apart from all the wrenches HP tries to throw in the machinery.
-
Progress report:
Arranged for HP to come out today first thing - so roughly 9AM and agreed they HAD to finish before 1PM.
HP Main office then sent spare parts to the 3rd party service company. (minus the cartridges that are not in stock)
Well - HP UK - sent the parts to the WRONG 3rd party service company office. So poor service guy had to drive for another 2 1/2 hours to collect the parts. So he arrived at 12:05pm
And then he did some diagnostics - and the Carriage PCA - said most voltages was wrong. So then he tore down the Z9 - and put a new PCB in. I managed to arrange for me being able to leave at 1:45pm and not 1pm. At 1:30pm the printer got turned back on - and passed voltage diagnostics. Inks and Print heads went back in - and the printer started it's "Startup Ink Cartridge" Program - and then it was time for me to leave - so we left the printer be printer and sort itself out.
So all in all the 3rd party repair guy - was great!
HP not so much.
But I came home at 4:30pm - and printer was working.
Conclusion - HP is a MESS.. But once service people gets the parts they do a darn fine job.
But HP has problems with all parts. Printheads are not available until between Dec 12th and Dec 29th.... Inks.. Unknown. Luckily I have an almost full set of Inks and 1 spare print-head.
Random Initial Comments / Impressions about printer and utilities :
1. Printer seems to saturate slightly more than the Z3200. On my favorite "Day to Day" Paper (Colourbyte Satin 190gsm) I had to turn it down to the Low Ink printer profile for Glossy. That was never an issue on the Z3200. (To much ink will show on the colourbyte as slight smear and like extra honeycomb outline inside the lower rows of saturated red/blue honeycomb patterns.)
2. Accounting... In latest firmware - something seriously wrong. Sometimes it will show a small print job has used 70ml of ink. And often costs shows for about 1/2 second and then goes to zero - while you look at it? Tried multiple browsers with same result.
3. HP DesignJet utility - Sync Paper presets sometimes can't be started (grayed out) - have not found the cause - but then you can't select the right paper - and then printer wont print... (unless you override)
4. You can change the currently selected paper profile on inserted paper via the printer front panel - not via the Web Interface or DesignJet utility? (At least I have not found a way)
5. HP DesignJet utility - latest Windows version is not downloadable? 404 - File not found error on HP's server? (6.0.7.4641) (https://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software13/printers/HP_DesignJet_Utility_6.0.7.4641.exe)
6. Authorized Dealers are no longer dealers - they are just box-shifters with limited knowledge despite their "DesignJet certifications...."
7. Z9 is not as easy to tear down or service as the Z3200.
8. I LOVE the silence - when printer goes to power save mode it is practically silent. Not like the 747 Z3200 fan sounds. Yes it wakes up from time to time for head clean - but that is fine. And it uses about 7 watt in "standby" mode which is also a lot better than the Z3200.
9. Display on printer does not seem quite optimized. It seems like it is running code for something that was supposed to be running on a slightly larger display. So lots of things needs horizontal scrolling - where a smaller font would have been absolutely fine even for my presbyopia "enhanced" vision.
10. Inks and start up - the whole startup of mine ate about 50% of the "initial" ink cartridges (before the first print) - So 27-35 ml / cartridge before ink lines and print heads are "full" and ready to rock and roll. (And 12% of the Gloss Enhancer 300ml cartridge from the GE Kit)
11. And a brand new printer with a Carriage PCA failure - should simply not happen. The board is so darn simple. Just a lot of capacitors - an STM32 processor and an advanced voltage controller (i think based on my quick view)
I hope HP can put some effort into optimizing their supply chain and service. Else it won't be long before it is only Epson or Canon.
But my printer is working - and we are getting to know each-other. It will be a few days before we are on first name basis - but it is so far showing promise, apart from all the wrenches HP tries to throw in the machinery.
You could tell HP UK that all consumables including heads are available in The Netherlands;
https://www.123inkt.nl/Inkt-cartridges/HP/Printer-type/HP-Designjet/HP-Designjet-Z9-plus-44-p581130.html
It will not be a fast solution to get them to the UK next year but that has another cause ......
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
March 2017 update, 750+ inkjet media white spectral plots
-
Ernst, are we allowed to mention B*xit?
I regularly get media from B&H faster than from UK and EU. Shame GBP has tanked in the last couple of years.
Kaz, hopefully, even if HP UK can't supply inks and heads, they'll do the decent thing and work with parts you've sourced from other markets, if needed. Would love to see the print quality.
-
There are definite differences between the Z3200 series printers and the z6/z9 series printers.
The Z9 is more robust in its physical build and it's based on a different platform than the Z3200.
Seeing that it runs at least twice as fast as the z3200 and does so whisper quietly, along with many other improvements over the z3200, it is simply put, a more complicated machine.
An example regarding the differences between printers:
To change the formatter board in the Z3200, there are just two screws and a “blade” board comes out easily. In the Z9+, it requires tearing down the right side and unscrewing numerous screws, fasteners, unplugging many cables just to get to the PSU cage which contains the main PCA card, the hard drive, the JetDirect LAN/Wifi interface card, etc. Significantly longer more involved take down for a repair, but we’re talking about a beast of a machine compared to the Z3200.
I’m not sure what’s happening with HP’s supply chain - the world is a different place than it was even three years ago. Even so, it is disconcerting to see an out of box unit fail, but it does happen.
I take the position that even with difficulties, I support HP and try to work with them the best I can, mainly because I believe the z3200’s and the Z9+ are the best printers available today to meet my print quality/longevity expectations, and despite shortcomings and idiosyncrasies, including failure out of the box, I know, ultimately, HP will make it right. Ultimately I want them to continue making their printers for us photographers.
I think unfortunate inconveniences which would normally be inexcusable, become balanced by stellar performance and amazing output. I know that the team in Barcelona is working hard to continue to improve the firmware which addresses bugs, more new capabilities for the printer, and better user interface with the touch screen and embedded web server.
This all takes time and even though there are glitches, once the machine is running, it is awesome.
It has proved to be an amazing workhorse in my studio. I prefer to print on it instead of my three other Z3200’s.
I’ve had a few issues with mine, and there are still a few issues, but I am happy to overlook them to get this performance - a cut above the Z3200, which I thought not possible to improve over.
So I support HP, even through difficulties. I just hope they keep making printers and inks for us.
Best,
Mark
-
Well, Ladies & Gentlemen
I have had the pleasure of asking for your help from this forum to try to help me decide which 24" printer should I get, the Canon Pro-2100 or the HP Z9+, and after a lot of insecurities from reading the many posts both here at Luminous Landscape and at DPreview, I finally ordered, and paid for, an HP Z9+ printer which should be delivered to my home sometime next week.
Let me tell you again, in case there are a few new people whom have joined this forum since my last few comments, that I am coming from a 17" Epson 4900, am truly an amateur when it comes to printing, actually, I am even an amateur when it also comes to pushing the shutter to get a few pics that I hope to print, but am really looking forward to learning the ropes of my new HP, and ultimately wanting to give some of my prints away to any friend or family who will hang even at least one of them on one of their four walls!
I am still very concerned about Mark Linquest's comments just a few days ago, when he stated, and I quote "I’ve had a few issues with mine, and there are still a few issues, but I am happy to overlook them to get this performance - a cut above the Z3200, which I thought not possible to improve over."
Granted that this printer has not been out that long, HP has been very remiss in publicly trying to show our printing community that this printer truly does belong along side the Canons and Epsons in this world of photographic printers, but I truly believe that a good picture has to be printed and hung to complete the cycle of a photograph, which has to be seen to be a work of art, but I am still quite nervous about the fact that there are still some issues that still have to be dealt with in order to get such a performance out of it.
Look, I am paying the company that will be delivering it to train me, and then I have a friend who lives relatively close & has had in his home one of the first 44" Z9+ printers ordered and delivered, and who has agreed to come over to my house and try to review, and teach me again how to use this printer to just try to tap into his hands-on experience in using it!
That was a very long preamble so I should get to the point of this reply, which is
to all of you out there who are Z9+ users,
what are some of the areas I should really focus on with both the trainers from the company who is selling me the printer and my friend who is an experienced users to start my journey to print that picture that I will be proud to hang on my wall, or give to my circle of friends to put on their's.
Stephen
-
Hi Stephan,
Congratulations! Here’s hoping all goes well with the learning curve with the Z9+.
Sounds like you have things well under control.
If you are a Mac user, you will have no problems - everything works as it should.
If you are a windows user, you may run into an issue with the HP Utility and being unable to access the all important color center to create custom ICC profiles.
It all works perfectly on Mac, but both Mark McCormick (who now has a new 44” dual roll Z9+) and I report that the Windows HP utility does have limited functionality. I’m currently involved in trying to diagnose this issue with HP techs. It is possible that it might be due to the dual OS environment, but the cause is not yet known.
You asked what you should receive training on. Focus on making custom profiles using the embedded spectrophotometer. It’s very easy once you get the hang of it. The 24” model can be finicky when loading
Sheets but I have posted a quick fix for that.
Refer to my unboxing and setup video before you setup your printer. If you got the Gloss Enhancer Upgrade Kit, it’s a good idea to install the E cartridge from the beginning, which will save you time and you’ll end up with a spare printhead if you do it that way. Just be sure to include the E cartridge during setup.
The whole process should go smoothly, and with paid assistance and help from your friend seems like you’ve got it covered.
So good luck - looking forward to hearing about your experiences with your new Z9+ printer, and again, congratulations!
Best,
Mark
-
Thanx Mark for those encouraging words.
I am on an Imac so hopefully it will be easier than for people on their PCs.
I am aware of loading sheets but have seen your suggested fix and will get help from my colleague who has fitted his with your "fix" and he has told me that he will help set it up on my printer. I do have a number of packages of cut sheets left from my 4900 so I would love to use them up.
I also have a number of 17" rolls which I also hope to use, and have ordered a few 24" rolls to use on my Z9+!
I did get the GE kit, but do not understand what you mean when you say to install the E cartridge from the beginning. Could you explain that point?
I have decided to have the company that is selling me the printer deliver, set-up, and train me. It has cost me to do this BUT I know I can not do it myself, so I can not think of any other way to get this set up!
I will attempt to learn how to use do custom profiles, and will try to write down step by step how it is done, and redo a few times so it will become routine, but I do not plan on using a great number of papers, but having this ability will allow me to experiment with different papers at any time!
Will let everyone knows how I progress, and who gets my first printed photograph! Maybe I may even have a few people stand in line waiting for a print from my HP Z9+!!!!
Stephen
-
I will attempt to learn how to use do custom profiles, and will try to write down step by step how it is done, and redo a few times so it will become routine, but I do not plan on using a great number of papers, but having this ability will allow me to experiment with different papers at any time!
Equally as important as the ICC Profiling step is the Z9's calibration step with 220+ patches of pure colors being printed and measured to bring the printer into a calibrated device state before making the profile. The Z9 will prompt you to run this linearization/calibration step periodically, and in so doing, will keep the custom ICC profile working accurately month in and month out. No chasing a drifting machine with remade ICC profiles!
Will let everyone knows how I progress, and who gets my first printed photograph! Maybe I may even have a few people stand in line waiting for a print from my HP Z9+!!!!
Stephen
A pleasant surprise for me with my new Z9 was the USB thumb drive port on the printer. I'm tempted to open up my print studio to local photographers (something I haven't been willing to do in the past because it required too much "hand holding"). One can make the Z9 custom profiles available to colleagues, let them prep their own files, stop by with the images on a thumb drive at a scheduled time, and print them out without having to transfer the files to my own computer or walk them through printer driver interface features. The Z9 recognizes the chosen media setting and applies the appropriate ICC profile to the data coming from the USB thumb drive. It's pretty cool, IMHO!
The Z9 also keeps track of paper usage when a roll gets loaded/unloaded by printing a bar code along 1 inch of the leading edge of the roll. So, folks with access to the Z9 can bring their own personal roll of material, let the z9 calibrate and profile it, print some work, unload it from the Z9 and return at a later date ready to go again with the Z9 reading the bar code and knowing how much material is left on the roll. Also cool, IMHO. Well suited to a printer sharing co-op type of environment like a local camera club or community college, for example. The accounting functions track the ink usage per job as well.
cheers,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
-
If you are a Mac user, you will have no problems - everything works as it should.
If you are a windows user, you may run into an issue with the HP Utility and being unable to access the all important color center to create custom ICC profiles.
It all works perfectly on Mac, but both Mark McCormick (who now has a new 44” dual roll Z9+) and I report that the Windows HP utility does have limited functionality. I’m currently involved in trying to diagnose this issue with HP techs. It is possible that it might be due to the dual OS environment, but the cause is not yet known.
I'm working through a decision to purchase a 44" printer, and have a couple of follow-up questions on some of the topics discussed regarding the Z9+.
1. Windows driver - still limited function? This is kind of a deal breaker, as picking up an extra Mac to drive the printer isn't really in the budget
2. Roll paper loading - is it easier to load rolls on the 44"? This isn't a deal breaker, just curious really.
3. image grain and other subjective topics - in one of the other threads, there was a description of the way that the Z9+ renders grain vs Epson or Canon. I plan to make test prints with each printer before buying, but I'm curious to know if there was any more discussion regarding the character of the output. I say character instead of quality because I think these are all solid fine art printers that have nuances, and we each have to make our decisions.
In the past, I've had access to an 11880, which I absolutely love for its output, and I've made some great prints on the Z3200. I've yet to print with the Canon, though I'm considering the 4100. The downside is the Canon design results in a physically very deep printer, this may end up being a deal breaker given my space layout. I'm not running a production shop, I do my own prints, plus limited prints for a few other artists. I have never experienced the head clog issue, I have a 3800 that has still yet to clog, it still runs! That said, user-replaceable print heads is a consideration. The 7900's I used at a design job a few years ago were in constant use, and lasted two years. That's anecdotal at best, but still, doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy towards Epson. So, I'm leaning towards the Z9+.
Anyhow, appreciate the discussion here by people that know far more than me.