Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: henrikfoto on April 23, 2019, 05:13:41 pm
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I have many older manual focus lenses and am thinking of buying a camera to use mainly with these lenses. What camera has the best assisted mf-system? I am thinking of the A7r3 or the D850. Or maybe another camera is better? Some of these mf lenses are very high resolution and I would like the best possible system.
Any ideas?
Henrik
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The Nikon D850 might well limit the lenses you can use, depending on what you have of course, due to the camera flange distance (46.5mm). For example you cannot put any RF lenses on the D850 without loosing infinity and Rokkor, Olympus, M42, Pentax for eg all have flange distances less than 46.5mm, so they have a similar issue, or need some work to fit a custom mount (Leitax for eg) or a visit to a machine shop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flange_focal_distance
Pretty much any SLR lens will work on any mirrorless camera; Sony and the new offerings from Nikon, Canon and Panasonic. I've only used Sony so I can't speak for physical or menu ergonomics of the others. Wide RF lenses tend to have trouble with the thick(er) coverglass on most mirrorless compared to film or Leica digital so I suggest you search around for compatibility (corners get smeared) or list what you have. Fred Miranda forum is a good resource
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I have many older manual focus lenses and am thinking of buying a camera to use mainly with these lenses. What camera has the best assisted mf-system? I am thinking of the A7r3 or the D850. Or maybe another camera is better? Some of these mf lenses are very high resolution and I would like the best possible system.
Any ideas?
In the Nikon world I would definitely go with the Z7 over the D850 for MF lenses. My Voigtlander 125mm f2.5 APO, Otus 55mm f1.4 and Leica 180mm f2.8 APO work great on it.
- the EVF makes it a lot easier to focus
- you have IBIS
- it is smaller and lighter which is a better match for many of the smaller MF lenses
- you can adapt many more lenses on it, including Sony FE lenses btw
- it is a future proof platform with many great native lenses on their way if you wish to get on that wagon (the new 24-70mm f2.8 S is amazing just to give one example).
Cheers,
Bernard
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Thanks to both of you!
I think now the choice is between Nikon Z7 and Sony A7r3.
But does both of these cameras have vr in the camera? And which one has the best
system to see focus when you adjust manually?
I have been trying to look for this on youtube etc., but canˋt find any comparisons.
Henrik
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I have both and the Sony A7RM3 is far better for focussing especially in low light conditions.
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I have both and the Sony A7RM3 is far better for focussing especially in low light conditions.
Are you speaking about AF or MF lenses focusing.
Cheers,
Bernard
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MF only,
Cheers
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I have both and the Sony A7RM3 is far better for focussing especially in low light conditions.
Thank you very much!!
Henrik
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MF only,
Cheers
OK, I find that a bit surprising because I overall find the EVF of the Z7 to be clearly superior, but my experience with MF lenses on the a7RIII is very limited so I'll trust you on that. ;)
One issue some people have had with the Z7 is that if you don't input manually a focal length for the non chipped MF lenses, then IBIS isn't functional, which makes focusing a lot more challenging.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Bernard, in recently i did a lot of timelaps videos often with 5 different cameras simultaneously on tripods. Olympus E1M2, Sony A7R, Sony A7RM2, Sony A7RM3, Nikon Z7 , and Nikon D810 different focal lengths but same light conditions ( starting nearly 2 hours before sunrise ) The Sony A7RM3 can be focussed with a slow lens (Sony GM 100-400) while with the other cameras i have to wait 15 - 30 minutes or so ( even longer with the Olympus) untill my mf focussing is reliable enough. Of course I would have to use the same lens parallel on both bodies to judge, but for me the Sony beats the Nikon in this application.
Cheers,
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And can the focus-shift be done with a manual lens also or must a Sony af lens be used?
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The IBIS on the Sony also needs to have the FL input for dumb MF lenses, otherwise the image will 'dance' as the IBIS tries to adjust for the wrong length.
For dumb lenses a trick to see better in the dark is to set the meter with say F8, then focus magnify, then open the aperture wide. In focus mag the metering will not change so the image gets bright, easy to focus, the stop down and take the image. This on top of highest ev offset will allow focus in all but blackest of settings. This is for the Sony, and also only dumb lenses as one with aperture control in the body will kick you out of focus mag when you change the aperture.
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Focus bracketing? Do it with any lens any camera, but no automation in the Sony. Not sure about Z7.
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Focus bracketing? Do it with any lens any camera, but no automation in the Sony. Not sure about Z7.
No automation on any camera with manual focus lenses.
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I am not talking of focus-stacking. Only the multishot-type of
shooting where the camera changes position 4 times and combine
the shots later to increase resolution.
Possible with manual lenses?
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I am not talking of focus-stacking. Only the multishot-type of
shooting where the camera changes position 4 times and combine
the shots later to increase resolution.
Possible with manual lenses?
Sure, but of course the focus adjustments need to be made manually. I assemble focus stacks from MF lenses in Affinity Photo from time to time.
Not sure I'd call that "automation".
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I am not talking of focus-stacking. Only the multishot-type of
shooting where the camera changes position 4 times and combine
the shots later to increase resolution.
Possible with manual lenses?
If you mean pixelshift mode, yes it can be done with any lens.
Cheers,
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If you mean pixelshift mode, yes it can be done with any lens.
Cheers,
Sorry for using wrong words. Yes, I mean pixelshift mode. Thank you!
Henrik
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Sorry for using wrong words. Yes, I mean pixelshift mode. Thank you!
Henrik
Oops, I believe that is correct!
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I have many older manual focus lenses and am thinking of buying a camera to use mainly with these lenses. ...
I use the Sony a7Rii with Leica M lenses. Be sure to look at whether you should have the KoloriVision Ultra Thin cover glass modification. My Leica M glass was made for film. The Sony, like most digital cameras, has a rather thick cover-glass over the sensor. This will cause curvature of field, particularly with wide angle lenses. The KoloriVision modification gets rid of that. The OEM Sony lenses, of course, were designed for the thick cover-glass. So, one has to make a decision as to what set/type of lenses you want to use. This issue affects all of my lenses shorter than 90 mm. Above that it doesn't matter.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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But it there any point to get the A7r3 or is the A7r2 just as good to use with manual lenses?
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Image quality they will be the same but the 3 is better in many ways over the 2 and you would have to decide,. I am happy I upgraded. I suggest you read reviews of both on dpreview, and then handle both and the z7 if possible.
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But it there any point to get the A7r3 or is the A7r2 just as good to use with manual lenses?
The 3 has a higher resolution viewfinder which helps with manual focus. That said, I have no problems manually focusing with the 2.
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Thank you all!
But the manual focus assist ot focus peak is the same with the A7r2 and A7r3?
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Today i made a dirty test using a 70-200 E 2.8 Nikon Zoom with FTZ-Adaptor on a Z7 and with the Commlite Adaptor on the A7RM2 and 3. I attached an 10 stop ND Filter to the lens and shot my bookshelf with artifical lighting only. An exposuretime of 30 seconds at 2.8 gave a underexposure of 1/2 stop on all three cameras at iso 100. The difference was, that the nikon showed absolutely nothing in the viewfinder or display. The brightness of the display was at the maximum (i could crank up iso but still nothing to see) the resulting picture though was ok. The Sonys could be focused! For most of us this may be irrelevant but for me it is not. It reflects clearly my experiencies from the past months with sunrise timelaps photography. Wether this is relevant for your photography or not only you can deside.
Cheers,
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This is very interesting!
But did you see any differences between the
A7r2 and A7r3 ?
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This is very interesting!
But did you see any differences between the
A7r2 and A7r3 ?
No, i did not and this was a suprise for me.
Cheers,
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The difference was, that the nikon showed absolutely nothing in the viewfinder or display. The brightness of the display was at the maximum (i could crank up iso but still nothing to see) the resulting picture though was ok. The Sonys could be focused! ...
So the exposure of the photo made with the Nikon was good, but you could not see a thing in the OVF.. That is bad.
Let's hope the new firmware released on the 16th of may will address that problem.
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Unless the OP is also still using the bodies originally used with those old lenses, it may be a better - if momentarily painful choice - to cut loose and dump the old stuff completely and settle on a single new system.
I have a mixture of old and new Nikkors, like them all, but eyesight is rendering the manual ones bloody difficult to operate as easily as I could. The Nikon bodies have a focus assist light, but it's not good having to swap attention from image to little light outwith the pic; a light within the pic would be even worse unless tiny, and in the centre as was the split-image wedge with which we all coped perfectly well.
Personally, I dislike complicated systems.
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So the exposure of the photo made with the Nikon was good, but you could not see a thing in the OVF.. That is bad.
Let's hope the new firmware released on the 16th of may will address that problem.
Exactly, yes but i have to stress the extremely low light situation when this happens. If you don‘t shoot very very early in the morning or evening the viewfinder and display of the Nikon Z7 will be good but not as good as the Sony ( by the way, even the very old A7R is not complety dark as the Z7)
Cheers,
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This is very interesting, but what about the
final image Nikon against Sony?
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His is very interesting, but what about the
final image Nikon against Sony?
I use Capture 1 and the Nikon files need less editing. The same is true for the D810. Very often only the tiniest tweeking is necessary to get what i want. Sony needs a little more of this and that but in the end Sony delivers as well. Both systems offer much more than i am able to take.
Cheers,
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All these suggestions are boring! Clearly the answer is a Phase One IQ4 150mp (https://phaseoneiq4.com/).
- Great ES (https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/phase-ones-electronic-shutter-in-detail/), live view, live raw histogram, and live focus peaking means it can be used on a tech body with literally any lens, since you don't need a body shutter or control of the leaf shutter in the lens
- Best dynamic range of any camera available
- Very very good color, especially when paired with Capture One since the camera and software are both made by the same team
- Up to 150 mp for those lenses that cover the full 645 sensor and have enough sharpness to justify it, optional 38 megapixel reduced-res raw file for when using a lens with big buttery bokeh (https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/fast-portrait-lens-phase-one/) but not much absolute resolving power.
- Great native body/lens options for when you want modern performance rather than to use your legacy lenses
Needless to say this isn't the least expensive option. But it is the best camera to use with MF lenses!
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All these suggestions are boring! Clearly the answer is a Phase One IQ4 150mp
...
Needless to say this isn't the least expensive option. But it is the best camera to use with MF lenses!
Needles to say that not everything costing less than a POIQ150 is boring... ;)
and best for one does not mean best for all...
Boring for me is spending limitless amounts of money to get ... " the Best!"
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Today i made a dirty test using a 70-200 E 2.8 Nikon Zoom with FTZ-Adaptor on a Z7 and with the Commlite Adaptor on the A7RM2 and 3. I attached an 10 stop ND Filter to the lens and shot my bookshelf with artifical lighting only. An exposuretime of 30 seconds at 2.8 gave a underexposure of 1/2 stop on all three cameras at iso 100. The difference was, that the nikon showed absolutely nothing in the viewfinder or display. The brightness of the display was at the maximum (i could crank up iso but still nothing to see) the resulting picture though was ok. The Sonys could be focused! For most of us this may be irrelevant but for me it is not. It reflects clearly my experiencies from the past months with sunrise timelaps photography. Wether this is relevant for your photography or not only you can deside.
Cheers,
If this is the case, I wonder if you had the D8 setting “show exposure settings the viewfinder” on or off?
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If this is the case, I wonder if you had the D8 setting “show exposure settings the viewfinder” on or off?
Yes, i tried on and off...same result,
Cheers,
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Hi,
That would be the case with lenses designed for rangefinder cameras, but no real problem with lenses designed for SLRs.
The Nikon Z7 has pretty thin cover glass, so that may be an advantage over the Sony A7rIII.
Good point!
Best regards
Erik
I use the Sony a7Rii with Leica M lenses. Be sure to look at whether you should have the KoloriVision Ultra Thin cover glass modification. My Leica M glass was made for film. The Sony, like most digital cameras, has a rather thick cover-glass over the sensor. This will cause curvature of field, particularly with wide angle lenses. The KoloriVision modification gets rid of that. The OEM Sony lenses, of course, were designed for the thick cover-glass. So, one has to make a decision as to what set/type of lenses you want to use. This issue affects all of my lenses shorter than 90 mm. Above that it doesn't matter.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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Leica M lenses are different story.
But are there any visible effects of thinner or thicker sensor cover glass when using MF lenses?
Or different place of cover glass like in GFX?
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Many of the old lenses will have problems with CA with digital cameras which is why Nikon for example produced new lenses that it introduced at the same time as it released the D3 12MP camera. I would want a camera with the Live View capability and a lens that had a correction profile available from DXO or whatever application I used for RAW file conversions.
This is a good source for information on old Nikon lenses when used with 35mm film and with digital sensor cameras:
http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_surv.html
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for sensor quality: Sigma sd quattro h.
for other aspects (many more lenses accepted and not only) Sony 24X36, Panasonic and also Fuji.
Mirrorless, obvious, if you want to focus accurately with magnification....
All the best,
sandro
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Hi all, today i got my hands on a Fuji 50 R and tried to focus with an 1000X ND filter (10 stops) indoors and from what i could see this camera is even better for low light situations than the very good Sony A7RM3.
The Fuji could autofucus with the filter attached. The new king for all types of focussing for me!
Cheers
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Nikon F3t or F3HP.
Kent in SD
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I would like the best possible system.
Then you either buy a new camera to use with the new lenses that are made for it or you buy an old camera made for the old lenses that you want to use.
Anything else is just a plain waste of money IMO.
I do have one adapted lens for my camera and that is only because it does something that the new lenses don't do, which is tilt shift.