Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs Ė and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: spassig on March 02, 2019, 06:58:52 am

Title: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on March 02, 2019, 06:58:52 am
Hello forum

Can someone recommend a good workflow to minimise dust inside camera body and on sensor?
I use a PO system.
Today I shoot outdoor with two lenses.
Before I carry out the shoots I have clean in office the sensor with air blower.
But at home on MBP I see lot of dust in sky.
On ground the dust isn't a big problem.
I think inside the camera was some dust.
The mirror swirled the dust to sensor.
What's the best workflow to minimise the dust problem?
a) At office.
b) Outdoor.
I see that lot of threads in this forum when I search to dust.
I'm not shure that I find all relevant info.

Regard

Jochen
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: Joe Towner on March 02, 2019, 06:59:09 pm
Which Phase system are you working with? XF or DF body with what lenses & back?  Are you using any filters?

If you use a flashlight on the sensor, do you see any dust?  Is dust in the same places with both lenses?

Have you blown out the body and the rear of the lenses?  Setup a solid white target and shoot a few frames at f/22 - is the dust there?

-Joe
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on March 03, 2019, 01:33:29 am
Joe, thanks for feedback.

Which Phase system are you working with? XF or DF body with what lenses & back? 
I use a XF/IQ3 with lenses SK 3.5/35 mm and 3.5/150 mm.

Are you using any filters?
Sometimes, but not in this shooting A.

If you use a flashlight on the sensor, do you see any dust?  Is dust in the same places with both lenses?
After shooting A I saw the dust inside camera and on sensor.

Have you blown out the body and the rear of the lenses? 
I donít blown the body as the referent shooting A.
I blown the rear of lenses.
After this shooting A I blown body and rear of lenses for next shootings.

Setup a solid white target and shoot a few frames at f/22 - is the dust there?
After the referent shooting A I do so and will analyze the pictures on the MBP

Jochen
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: Paul2660 on March 03, 2019, 08:26:40 am
Dust, on a MF back, pretty common.  Odds are it's on the sensor, you can pretty much forget looking at the lenses.  Even if on the lenses, you would not see it as a spot on your images.  Dust on a or in a lens is very diffused, at least with the lenses you are referencing.

The IQ3100, or any Phase One back, is very easy to clean.  Phase One has a cleaning kit, 2 solutions.  One is a blue color, One is clear.  Unless you have a smudge on the sensor, you don't need the blue color, I believe it's called solution A. 

In the cleaning kit there is a plastic piece that has two widths.  The smaller end is for the cropped sensors, you won't use that side.  You just fold a wipe from the kit around the plastic and wet it with a couple of drops of fluid.  You can use PecPads, or any pad designed for sensor cleaning.  I prefer the ones from Macgroup, but they are hard to find.

I would only wet clean, after you attempt to blow off the back.  Use any hand held blower, Rocket blower is the brand I use.  Most of the time you can get the sensor clean with this.  Only wet clean after a few attempts..

Dust, on MF back, is just part of the deal.  You have a huge sensor, a very large opening with the XF mirror box, and a huge mirror flopping around.  If you think dust is bad with the XF, try a tech camera 10x worse. At least from my experience. 

The huge advantage a Phase One back has is that you can remove it from the camera and have great access to it for cleaning. 

Paul C
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on March 03, 2019, 04:17:39 pm
@Paul

I have used in the past the cleaning kit from PO for my Hasselblad 503 CW/P45.
I can use it when lot of dust is on sensor.
I think I will blowing with compressed air the camera and the digiback at home.
In the field I will use a hand held blower.
There is a blower with filter at suction opening?
In the field I will change lenses inside a plastic transparent bag.
I heard about a little vacuum cleaner, does someone know this?
Or had someone a better ideas?

Jochen

Edit.
Has someone experience with this system?

https://www.green-clean.at/unternehmen.html
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: michaelclark on March 03, 2019, 04:58:28 pm
When shooting on location with the Hasselblad H5D, we often use 1-inch gaffer's tape and and tape over the seam where the back connects with the camera body. Another alternative is to use a wide rubber band and put that over the seam where the back connects to the camera body. I am not sure how much this helps but it at least seals off one area where dust might find its way in.

Changing lenses and the flapping mirror probably stir up more dust that might already be in the mirror box. Cleaning out the mirror box can really help. I just use one of the Visible Dust Zeeion blowers (that doesn't suck dust into the blower) to clean the chamber and the sensor. If you clean often then it is pretty rare to have to do a wet cleaning.

Of note, the new mirrorless medium format cameras collect way more dust than my H5D. And I have to say they are a royal pain to clean in comparison to the larger OVF medium format cameras where you can just take the back off and have full access to the sensor without having to reach into a chasm.

Cheers, Michael

www.michaelclarkphoto.com 
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on March 03, 2019, 05:37:02 pm
When shooting on location with the Hasselblad H5D, we often use 1-inch gaffer's tape and and tape over the seam where the back connects with the camera body. Another alternative is to use a wide rubber band and put that over the seam where the back connects to the camera body. I am not sure how much this helps but it at least seals off one area where dust might find its way in.
...

Cheers, Michael

www.michaelclarkphoto.com

Thanks Michael
Thatís a good suggestion.

Jochen
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: Paul2660 on March 03, 2019, 06:44:17 pm
Strongly recommend not to use compressed air on any P1 back.  Way way too much pressure, and you always run the risk of spraying out the propellant onto the sensor.  Over shaking can or just moving can can cause this.  This will create a real mess.

Just use a rocket blower ( or similar).

Paul C
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on March 04, 2019, 04:00:47 am
Strongly recommend not to use compressed air on any P1 back.  Way way too much pressure, and you always run the risk of spraying out the propellant onto the sensor.  Over shaking can or just moving can can cause this.  This will create a real mess.

Just use a rocket blower ( or similar).

Paul C

In the above Link I found a Video.

https://www.green-clean.at/demo-videos.html

Look at Digiback Cleaning System Phase 1 and Phase 2

In this video the guy clean a PO digiback.

Jochen
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: Weldon Brewster on March 04, 2019, 12:21:57 pm
Shout out to Michael Clark, hope all is well my friend.


A fastidious workflow for dust mitigation will save gobs of time in editing. (This my workflow but other people may find something else works better for them.)

I start at the end of the day - Everything is cleaned with a slightly damp cloth to remove exterior dust and salt spray. Dried. Remove paper tape and hit it with the Rocket Blower.  Let it sit till the next morning.

In the morning before shooting - I clean the back (usually with a Rocket Blower but wet cleaning if necessary) and run a quick test of functions.  Fresh batteries/card and seal everything with paper tape.  (If you remove the finder it's easier to wrap.)

I've found that this works on everything from  tech cams to small format cameras.

FYI Sometimes you can get free cleaning at Phase One events

Here's my XF all wrapped up  :)

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/medias.photodeck.com/d359cb0e-3b58-4059-bf89-7900837d20df/IMG_6979_large.jpg)
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: Steve Hendrix on March 04, 2019, 01:32:04 pm
I feel compelled to post the below link, which I've posted before. It does not really touch on preventative environmental remedies, which are effectively displayed by Michael and Weldon, but does cover some of the tools and techniques for actual cleaning of the IR Filter above the sensor.

https://captureintegration.com/ci-recommended-sensor-cleaning-practices/


Steve Hendrix/CI
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: ErikKaffehr on March 24, 2019, 10:31:35 am
I feel compelled to post the below link, which I've posted before. It does not really touch on preventative environmental remedies, which are effectively displayed by Michael and Weldon, but does cover some of the tools and techniques for actual cleaning of the IR Filter above the sensor.

https://captureintegration.com/ci-recommended-sensor-cleaning-practices/


Steve Hendrix/CI

Hi Steve,

Thanks for good info.

Still I have some reflections...


Best regards
Erik
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: pemihan on April 07, 2019, 12:27:59 pm
I feel compelled to post the below link, which I've posted before. It does not really touch on preventative environmental remedies, which are effectively displayed by Michael and Weldon, but does cover some of the tools and techniques for actual cleaning of the IR Filter above the sensor.

https://captureintegration.com/ci-recommended-sensor-cleaning-practices/


Steve Hendrix/CI

On top of that I would say get the CI Woven Cleaning Cloths. They are way way better than Pec Pads! Trust me on that!
Cleaning Cloths: https://www.digitalback.com/product/ci-cleaning-wipes/
Cleaning Cloths + Cleaning Fluid Kit: https://www.digitalback.com/product/ci-sensor-cleaning-kit-2/

I have no affiliation with CI, just a satisfied customer.

Peter
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: Steve Hendrix on April 08, 2019, 10:42:15 am
Hi Steve,

Thanks for good info.

Still I have some reflections...

  • I have been shooting digital since 2006, needed wet cleaning exactly once.
  • I use an 'Artic Butterfly" from "Visible Dust". It is ridiculously overpriced, but it works. They do have a lot of marketing BS. 
  • Having a sensor loupe and visually inspect the sensor before each shoot makes good sense. Visible Dust has a ridiculously overpriced tool for that task, too.

Best regards
Erik


Eric, your need for wet cleaning on one occasion speaks well of your habits, your agility, and practices! What does the inside of your refrigerator look like?  :D

In an ideal world, a clean burst of air is all one would ever need to clean the IR Filter of dust and particulates.

However, it is a good idea to have wet cleaning capabilities handy in the event of a mishap. You'd think expensive equipment like this would be handled in the most careful way always, but ...


Steve Hendrix/CI
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: Steve Hendrix on April 08, 2019, 10:42:31 am
On top of that I would say get the CI Woven Cleaning Cloths. They are way way better than Pec Pads! Trust me on that!
Cleaning Cloths: https://www.digitalback.com/product/ci-cleaning-wipes/
Cleaning Cloths + Cleaning Fluid Kit: https://www.digitalback.com/product/ci-sensor-cleaning-kit-2/

I have no affiliation with CI, just a satisfied customer.

Peter


Peter, thank you for the shout out!


Steve Hendrix/CI
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: landscapephoto on April 12, 2019, 02:15:09 am
I am not sure about Phase 1, but my Hasselblad uses a rear cloth shutter. I suspect that the shutter itself generates dust. I clean my sensor before each shooting with a hand blower, but I often see new dust after a few images.

Phocus has a function to remove dust. What I do I take a picture of the sky at f/16 after the shooting to use as a dust reference. That will be the image with the most dust spots. I calibrate the dust removal on that image and apply the same to the other images from that day. Typically, dust spots do not move between pictures.
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on April 20, 2019, 05:33:26 pm

Peter, thank you for the shout out!


Steve Hendrix/CI

Hello Steve
I donít find the link on your webpage to find the Sensor cleaning kit.
Home > Store > is empty.
Do You deliver to Germany?
Please give feedback.

Jochen
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on April 22, 2019, 05:52:51 am
Now I have clean the sensor three times with liquid and clothes.
Before this I use pressure air on sensor and this generates lot of spots on sensor.

I read here following and ask:
ĄRocket blower is the brand I useď
It has a free input for dusty air, isnít it?

ĄVisible Dust Zeeion blowers (that doesn't suck dust into the blower)ď

In which way filter it dust input?

Dust is very petite:
ĄThis in turn is divided into different groups: If it is 2.5 to 10 micrometers in size, it belongs to the so-called coarse fraction. A size of 0.1 to 2.5 micrometers is referred to as the "fine fraction", a diameter of less than 0.1 micrometers as the "ultrafine particles".

Jochen
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on April 22, 2019, 06:03:57 am
Visible Dust Zeeion blowers don't minimise dust? See attachment.
Or I'm wrong?

Jochen 
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: pemihan on April 22, 2019, 06:10:12 am
Hello Steve
I donít find the link on your webpage to find the Sensor cleaning kit.
Home > Store > is empty.
Do You deliver to Germany?
Please give feedback.

Jochen

Here's the direct links to the Cleaning Cloths etc.:
Cleaning Cloths: https://www.digitalback.com/product/ci-cleaning-wipes/
Cleaning Cloths + Cleaning Fluid Kit: https://www.digitalback.com/product/ci-sensor-cleaning-kit-2/

The links work at my end.

Peter

Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: Steve Hendrix on April 22, 2019, 09:59:37 am
Here's the direct links to the Cleaning Cloths etc.:
Cleaning Cloths: https://www.digitalback.com/product/ci-cleaning-wipes/
Cleaning Cloths + Cleaning Fluid Kit: https://www.digitalback.com/product/ci-sensor-cleaning-kit-2/

The links work at my end.

Peter


We're having some issues with that link to get into the store (the actual "Store" link).

You can get in the back way, by clicking this link located on our CI home page:

https://www.digitalback.com/product-category/0-pre-owned-digital-backs/

And then selecting "Certified Accessories".


Or for shortest path, below is the Certified Accessories link:

https://www.digitalback.com/product-category/0-digitalbackcom/


Jochen, we do ship internationally, but only use Fedex, so you may find that purchasing a $58 accessory is not very cost efficient once you add the shipping fees.


Steve Hendrix/CI
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on April 22, 2019, 10:09:50 am
@Steve Hendrix/CI

Thank for feedback.
I will see in future what I do.
At moment I read and test different accesories to clean camera, lenses and digital back.
I shooting in Tuscany for three weeks and I collect lot of experience.

Jochen
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: ErikKaffehr on May 04, 2019, 12:42:59 am
Hi Steve,

I guess that the cameras I have Sony and Hasselblad 555/ELD don't spill oil on the sensor. So, what I essentially got on the sensor is dust.

On the Hasselblad I need to dismount the P45+ back to change the battery, as the battery holder/motor drive sits under the back. Not really fond of removing the back outdoors. Actually, I dropped it once into gravel from 1.2 m height when it did not lock properly on the camera. It survived with barely a scratch:


I often change lens outdoors as I transport all my cameras 'sans lens'. The trick is to turn away from the wind, and turn the camera downward.

Now days I travel with a small RV, on critical shoots I check the sensor with a sensor loupe each morning.

I have been shooting interchangeable lens digital since 2005 and had only one cleaning, I guess it was rainwater falling on the P45+ while changing battery. I used the original cleaning kit that came with the back.

Best regards
Erik



Eric, your need for wet cleaning on one occasion speaks well of your habits, your agility, and practices! What does the inside of your refrigerator look like?  :D

In an ideal world, a clean burst of air is all one would ever need to clean the IR Filter of dust and particulates.

However, it is a good idea to have wet cleaning capabilities handy in the event of a mishap. You'd think expensive equipment like this would be handled in the most careful way always, but ...


Steve Hendrix/CI
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: spassig on June 03, 2019, 04:54:03 am
Hello

Today I found this:

https://visibledust.com/products/arctic-butterfly-724s-super-bright-sensor-brush-for-cleaning-sensor-of-digital-cameras/

Does someone know the physical basics of minimize the electrostatic by turning the brush?

Jochen

Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: JaapD on June 03, 2019, 12:52:34 pm
I have this Arctic Butterfly. Doesnít work for me at all while trying to clean the sensor. Also way too expensive for what it does. My suggestion: run away from it.

I do get good results with wet cleaning though.

Regards,
Jaap.
Title: Re: Workflow Minimise Dust Camera Sensor
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on June 03, 2019, 01:37:30 pm
Hello

Today I found this:

https://visibledust.com/products/arctic-butterfly-724s-super-bright-sensor-brush-for-cleaning-sensor-of-digital-cameras/

Does someone know the physical basics of minimize the electrostatic by turning the brush?

Jochen

Itís expensive. I have used one for many years. If blowing doesnít work I go to the arctic butterfly. If that doesnít work itís a wet clean. Havenít done a wet clean in about 5 years. I live in a very dry dusty place.