Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: Dave (Isle of Skye) on February 09, 2019, 05:29:13 am
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Here is another shot from my 'Great American Road Trip' last October.
I always assumed that Dead Horse State Park had been romantically named after an Indian Chief or something, you know like Sitting Bull etc., only to learn that it was actually named after a practice carried out by early foreign settlers to this region, who would corral wild horses onto a thin ledge above this canyon, then pick out the few horses that they wanted to keep, but then leave all the others to starve to death, simply because they couldn't be arsed enough to let them escape back into the wild...!
You know what, I think there is a deadly virus that has been growing exponentially on this planet and that one day will completely destroy it and every single living thing on it, and that virus is us.
Dave
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I have uploaded this image into the CC section of this site BTW, because I think the landscape section should be a celebration of this world, but now every time I look at this image and the story behind the name, it depresses the hell out of me and so I didn't want to vent my depressive thoughts onto the happy people occupying the landscape section, but thought you guys in here where it can get a little more 'edgy' perhaps wouldn't mind so much - sorry if I have now depressed you too though..
Dave
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You have a colour version? It would be nice to compare the two. In B&W it looks a bit bland.
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You have a colour version? It would be nice to compare the two. In B&W it looks a bit bland.
Yes of course I shot it in colour, but it was such a bland and overcast day, that the series of shots I took to make this pano, were all sort of blueish grey and not very inspiring at all. But if you read my previous comments on this image above, then I hope you will forgive me for not intending to work on it again, or even particularly wishing to look at it anymore.
But thanks for commenting anyway, as I always appreciate and respect any feedback on my work, good, bad or indifferent ;)
Dave
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Here is another shot from my 'Great American Road Trip' last October.
I always assumed that Dead Horse State Park had been romantically named after an Indian Chief or something, you know like Sitting Bull etc., only to learn that it was actually named after a practice carried out by early foreign settlers to this region, who would corral wild horses onto a thin ledge above this canyon, then pick out the few horses that they wanted to keep, but then leave all the others to starve to death, simply because they couldn't be arsed enough to let them escape back into the wild...!
You know what, I think there is a deadly virus that has been growing exponentially on this planet and that one day will completely destroy it and every single living thing on it, and that virus is us.
Dave
Dave,
If you look and research far enough back in history, just about everywhere on this earth, that same virus has left it's mark.
Peter
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You want critique?
Here it is: 2CCC.
Too crunchy, contrasty, and constrained (composition).
:)
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It is a depressing story.
The location, however, is anything but. There, in one glance, you can see a thousand feet down, a hundred miles away and millions of years ago.
It rivals The Grand Canyon. IMHO.
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Critique 1....
You have a colour version? It would be nice to compare the two. In B&W it looks a bit bland.
Critique 2....
Too crunchy, contrasty, and constrained (composition).
So come on guys, surely one of you has got to be having a serious problem with your screen calibration, no?
Although I do agree with you about the constricted feeling of the composition Slobodan, but as I mentioned above, I can't bring myself round to working on it again ;)
It is a depressing story.
The location, however, is anything but. There, in one glance, you can see a thousand feet down, a hundred miles away and millions of years ago.
It rivals The Grand Canyon. IMHO.
I totally agree Peter and it is a pity because I took quite a few shots in this area, but once I read the info board at one of the viewpoints, it sort of ruined it for me. Now should that be the case, I don't know, I can only tell you what I am feeling. Although in saying that, perhaps it is just me being old and cranky and having a depressive funk or something..
Dave,
If you look and research far enough back in history, just about everywhere on this earth, that same virus has left it's mark.
Peter
Thanks Peter and yes you are certainly correct in what you say ;)
Dave
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Bland.
bland Dictionary result for bland
adjective
lacking strong features or characteristics and therefore uninteresting.
I am happy with my description.
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Bland.
bland Dictionary result for bland
adjective
lacking strong features or characteristics and therefore uninteresting.
I am happy with my description.
Then please forgive me, as I misunderstood your use of the word 'bland' as meaning flat toned..
So all in all, no one likes this image in anyway, including me...
Thanks guys ;D
Dave
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I've been there, and it IS an awe-inspiring view (even though most of my shots are taken from the "traditional" location) and there's a ton to find in the area.
As for the story, I agree that it's tragic, and that people can be needlessly, horribly cruel, especially to animals, which harbor neither malice nor guile toward humans except inasmuch as they are creatures of nature, whereas we actively choose (or rationalize) cruelty despite the capacity to understand that we cause suffering.
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Here's my shot of Dead Horse Point state park. I travelled through the SOuthwest last April. I thought this area was better the Grand Canyon. Note that the picture you took is Grand View Overlook and is not in Dead Horse Point but a little further down in Canyonlands.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/958/41959578421_f8f0a372e1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26VPNPg)
Dead Horse State Park - Canyonlands, Utah (https://flic.kr/p/26VPNPg) by Alan Klein (https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/), on Flickr
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/957/41060602295_aeb0830460_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/25yojwT) (https://flic.kr/p/25yojwT)
Canyonlands 1[/url] by Alan Klein (https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/), on Flickr
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I'd encourage you not to let "bland and overcast" or depressing history get in the way of creating good images. Here's one of mine from a bland and overcast day, before and after.
And even though your post is indeed Canyonlands and not Dead Horse, the encouragement still applies.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Temp-Upload/n-5RJTN/i-sx6pp4T/0/cae8932b/X3/i-sx6pp4T-X3.jpg)
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I've been there, and it IS an awe-inspiring view (even though most of my shots are taken from the "traditional" location) and there's a ton to find in the area.
As for the story, I agree that it's tragic, and that people can be needlessly, horribly cruel, especially to animals, which harbor neither malice nor guile toward humans except inasmuch as they are creatures of nature, whereas we actively choose (or rationalize) cruelty despite the capacity to understand that we cause suffering.
Yes James, it is a tragic story. My wife enjoys watching those animal rescue programs on TV, but I can't because I find it just too upsetting to look at what humans are capable of doing to animals :-[
Here's my shot of Dead Horse Point state park. I travelled through the SOuthwest last April. I thought this area was better the Grand Canyon. Note that the picture you took is Grand View Overlook and is not in Dead Horse Point but a little further down in Canyonlands.
Nice shots Alan and certainly better than any I got of this view ;)
I'd encourage you not to let "bland and overcast" or depressing history get in the way of creating good images. Here's one of mine from a bland and overcast day, before and after.
And even though your post is indeed Canyonlands and not Dead Horse, the encouragement still applies.
Thanks for that advice and don't worry, I am way too obsessed with landscape photography to allow anything to make even the slightest bit of difference to my all consuming obsession ;)
Thanks everyone :)
Dave
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Ok, enough is enough of this self-flagellation. You guys took a legend and ran with it. I strongly doubt the account. If anything, horses were considered almost sacred among all the animals in the Wild West. Horse thieves would be hung on the spot, because leaving another person without the horse was tantamount to sentencing him (the horse owner) to almost certain death. It is possible that something indeed happened that gave legs to the legend, but whatever happend was probably more due to unfortunate set of circumstances than stupid malice.
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Nice conversion redcrown.
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Ok, enough is enough of this self-flagellation.
I don't think you know many Brits do you Slobodan, it's what we do you know, and (he says with tongue firmly in cheek) I think we might just be world leaders at it...
But yes I am now more than happy to accept that it may well be a legend, now that you point it out. But that is another of our (or perhaps my) failings, is we tend to believe what people tell us on such matters ::)
Dave
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Ok, enough is enough of this self-flagellation. You guys took a legend and ran with it. I strongly doubt the account. If anything, horses were considered almost sacred among all the animals in the Wild West. Horse thieves would be hung on the spot, because leaving another person without the horse was tantamount to sentencing him (the horse owner) to almost certain death. It is possible that something indeed happened that gave legs to the legend, but whatever happend was probably more due to unfortunate set of circumstances than stupid malice.
Slobodan, I can't tell if you're joking or not, but "...sacred among all the animals...," I mean, really? ::)
Arizona, being part of the that "Wild West," has, not coincidentally, numerous horse rescue organizations. Maltreatment and abuse of horses is an old story, and even today those organizations have to keep soliciting money to continue taking care of and adopting animals as needed.
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Slobodan, I can't tell if you're joking or not, but "...sacred among all the animals...," I mean, really? ::)
Arizona, being part of the that "Wild West," has, not coincidentally, numerous horse rescue organizations. Maltreatment and abuse of horses is an old story, and even today those organizations have to keep soliciting money to continue taking care of and adopting animals as needed.
I thought I made it clear what made them "sacred" at the time. Today is different. We do not need horses the same way people in the Wild West did (which, of course, does not justify the mistreatment).
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Unfortunately, I suspect that that legend is based on facts. In those days, for the early settlers the wild horses were more a nuisance and a renewable resource, so pushing them off the cliff seemed like a normal thing to do. Same with bisons. And the killing is still going on.
The officer for the Rawlins, Wyo., division of the Bureau of Land Management spotted a mound of brown against the white snow. As he drew nearer, he realized he was looking at the corpses of three recently shot wild horses. Reed says it's not uncommon to find single corpses of horses that have been sickly and then shot out of mercy. But as he inspected the two young mares and one stallion, he concluded they could not have been killed with any good intention.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=94255&page=1
Bison slaughter was even encouraged by the US government as a means of starving out Native American populations, which relied on the bison for food. In fact, hunting of bison became so prevalent that travelers on trains in the Midwest would shoot bison during long-haul train trips.
Once numbering around 20 to 30 million in North America, the population of the American bison decreased to less than 1,000 by 1890.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/american-bison-extinction-1800s
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Unfortunately, I suspect that that legend is based on facts. In those days, for the early settlers the wild horses were more a nuisance and a renewable resource, so pushing them off the cliff seemed like a normal thing to do...
Sorry, Les, but the linked article describes the present day problem. I would like to see any reference, perhaps in literature, about such practice in the times of the Wild West.
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Slobodan, I don't have the exact reference, but perhaps the following story by Jack London about the horses on the White Pass Trail will make the point.
It is estimated that at least 3,000 horses died just on the White Pass Trail in the days of the Klondike Gold Rush.
The horses died like mosquitoes in the first frost and from Skagway to Bennett they rotted in heaps; they died at the rocks, they were poisoned at the summit, and they starved at the lakes; they fell off the trail, what there was of it, and they went through it, in the river they drowned under their loads or were smashed to pieces against the boulders; they snapped their legs in the crevices and broke their backs falling backwards with their packs; in the sloughs they sank from sight and were smothered in the slime; and they were disemboweled in the bogs where corduroy logs turned end up in the mud—men shot them, worked them to death and when they were gone went back to the beach and bought more. Some did not bother to shoot them, stripping the saddles off and the shoes and leaving them where they fell. Their hearts turned to stone—those that did not break—and they became beasts, the men on the Dead Horse Trail.
https://www.yukon-news.com/letters-opinions/dead-horse-gulch/
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I thought I made it clear what made them "sacred" at the time. Today is different. We do not need horses the same way people in the Wild West did (which, of course, does not justify the mistreatment).
Horses have been used for many things, including as food. Horses were invaluable to the progress of humans, but notwithstanding some poetic venerations, they were mostly a commodity. If a commodity is “sacred,” then I guess you’re correct.
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There now 500,000 bison back on the plains again in part due to restocking done by the Bronx Zoo in NYC a hundred years ago. They shipped 6 bison on display at the zoo back to Wyoming.
https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2013/11/26/marking-the-100-year-anniversary-of-historic-transfer-of-bison-from-the-bronx-zoo-to-wind-cave-national-park/
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There now 500,000 bison back on the plains again in part due to restocking done by the Bronx Zoo in NYC a hundred years ago. They shipped 6 bison on display at the zoo back to Wyoming.
https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/2013/11/26/marking-the-100-year-anniversary-of-historic-transfer-of-bison-from-the-bronx-zoo-to-wind-cave-national-park/
Impressive growth. Almost like the number of tourists in the parks. Visitations in Horseshoe Band grew from a few thousand annual visitors historically to 100,000 in 2010, 750,000 by 2015, and 2 million in 2018. According to recent statistics, over 300 million tourists visited US national parks last year. Substantially more than 100 years ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/20/national-parks-america-overcrowding-crisis-tourism-visitation-solutions
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Impressive growth. Almost like the number of tourists in the parks. Visitations in Horseshoe Band grew from a few thousand annual visitors historically to 100,000 in 2010, 750,000 by 2015, and 2 million in 2018. According to recent statistics, over 300 million tourists visited US national parks last year. Substantially more than 100 years ago.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/20/national-parks-america-overcrowding-crisis-tourism-visitation-solutions
We'll have to start shooting tourists. :)
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Slobodan, I don't have the exact reference, but perhaps the following story by Jack London about the horses on the White Pass Trail will make the point...
Les, thanks for the story. But it was in the Pacific Northwest, not the Wild West, where the Dead Horse State Park is. The Wikipedia source that quoted the legend talked about cowboys. I am well aware that horses have been used and abused throughout the history. I expressed my doubts that at that place, and at that time, cowboys would deliberately and maliciously harm horses. I certainly might be wrong, of course.
Stealing a man’s horse was a serious offense in a land where being left afoot could be fatal. Anti-horse theft associations worked through the legal system to prosecute horse thieves. But when the law did not bring a thief to justice, vigilantes often took charge and hanged thieves
Source: https://truewestmagazine.com/was-horse-theft-a-capital-offense-during-the-old-west-era/
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Just to get a picture on this second page.. When I was at the location in question I was lucky enough to get a great sunrise. Made getting up in the dark in Moab worth it.
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Nice shot, Slobo. I see they complied with the rule of thirds.
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Nice shot Jim. I just couldn't get myself (and wife) up that early. The lighting is great.
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Nice shot Jim... The lighting is great.
+1
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The original photo does seem a bit constrained but I have an emotional attachment to the subject so the flaws aren't as obvious to me.
I'm late to the party here but I know and love that area too. I always wondered about the name and always figured it was a single horse used as a landmark somewhere. It sounds like the truth is quite a bit more grisly.
That road down on the canyon rim is the White Rim Trail which was build by uranium prospectors in the 1950's. It can be traveled as a 105 Mile loop and I've done it by mountain bike a number of times. The most fun is to do it as a three day trip, camping along the way but some of my more hardcore cyclist friends prefer to do it in a single day which requires a 4am start and a very long day on the trail for me!
I think this first shot of Keyhole Arch may be in the OP's photo.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3936/15521166085_b94c6baf61_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pDy2VP)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3954/15521163245_e066a38ee1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pDy25R)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5600/15517997101_4da914161a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pDgMUa)
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Horses have been used for many things, including as food. Horses were invaluable to the progress of humans, but notwithstanding some poetic venerations, they were mostly a commodity. If a commodity is “sacred,” then I guess you’re correct.
When we were in Iceland, we saw horse on the menu in several places. It's pretty similar to lean beef.
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When we were in Iceland, we saw horse on the menu in several places. It's pretty similar to lean beef.
I've had cheval (and cheval burgers) in France, where it's commonly available. I found it unpleasantly sweet, but tastes vary.
Jeremy
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There was a long tradition of horse meat on the menu at the Harvard Club of Boston. I believe the tradition ended sometime in the 1970s, after public outcry.
I never had horse meat, but I did have some excellent whale steak back before whaling was essentially banned.