Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: rollsman44 on January 31, 2019, 07:26:46 am

Title: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: rollsman44 on January 31, 2019, 07:26:46 am
  This post will help me if I decide to sell what I have and go with one of these.  I had the GFX 50s and its a great camera and IQ is excellent, especially Skin tones which is important to me. I am retired and shoot very few jobs and Mainly family and friends( which you all know is Non PAID ) I call it charity BUT I love what I do and have been for over 45 years shooting. If I had to settle down and get JUST one camera and 1 or 2 less at most I would like to choose one of the 2 mentioned. I know the Hassy costs more than the GFX but this year I know the prices will come down when the 100mp come out. Then I will see what I should do then.  So, I am putting it out there to see what others can add to my thinking. Thank you.  I hope the tread does NOT cause any hard feelings as it can be subjective as we all know.  Thanks
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Christopher on January 31, 2019, 01:49:31 pm
Double post?!?


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Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Stephen Scharf on January 31, 2019, 09:21:32 pm
  This post will help me if I decide to sell what I have and go with one of these.  I had the GFX 50s and its a great camera and IQ is excellent, especially Skin tones which is important to me. I am retired and shoot very few jobs and Mainly family and friends( which you all know is Non PAID ) I call it charity BUT I love what I do and have been for over 45 years shooting. If I had to settle down and get JUST one camera and 1 or 2 less at most I would like to choose one of the 2 mentioned. I know the Hassy costs more than the GFX but this year I know the prices will come down when the 100mp come out. Then I will see what I should do then.  So, I am putting it out there to see what others can add to my thinking. Thank you.  I hope the tread does NOT cause any hard feelings as it can be subjective as we all know.  Thanks

I would get the GFX....its more responsive than the X1D in use, and a very well-made camera and the GF lens line is rounding out very nicely. For your needs, I'd also seriously consider the GFX50R, which is lighter and easy to handle. You have the backing of a company that firmly stands behind its products, and has a professional service and support service for GF-series owners if needed. As for the Hasselblad, I'd be worried about support over the long-term. Hasselblad is now owned by DJI who was just rocked last week by a major corruption scandal.

And...there's now full Capture One support for Fujifilm MF cameras...this is a BIG deal, as far as I am concerned. Your requirements may vary.
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Kirk_C on February 01, 2019, 12:06:16 am
Hasselblad is now owned by DJI who was just rocked last week by a major corruption scandal.

Many of your points a quite valid except for this one. With all due respect you should read a little more about the DJI issue. It's insignificant to Hasselblad.

As I posted above I've used both and I'll eventually own both. I'm on a wait list for the Hasselblad XCD 80mm (https://www.dpreview.com/products/hasselblad/lenses/hasselblad_xcd_80_1p9). I had a chance to see some images a friend shot with it a few weeks ago in LA and it's outstanding. A significant step above anything Fuji or Hassy have previously offered, IMHO based on 30+ years using both brands.
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Kirk_C on February 01, 2019, 12:09:39 am
Oops, I didn't post above. This is apparently a duplicate titled thread ?

Any moderators know how this got by ?
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: ErikKaffehr on February 05, 2019, 05:48:13 am
Hi,

I would go with GFX?

Why?

- Fuji has a clear roadmap.
- A guy called Jim Kasson has done an awful lot of testing on the GFX, has not seen anything similar on the X1D.
- GFX is more adaptable, as it has built in focal plane shutter.
- GFX is based on Fuji's long experience with EVF cameras and can reuse ASICs and other technology from other Fuji product lines.
- It seems that GFX lenses are much lower in price-

Do I see advantages with the X1D? Some:

- It seems that X1D is more focused on compact design.
- Leaf shutter design works better with electronic flash. Some deny this, but laws of physics say otherwise.

Best regards
Erik



  This post will help me if I decide to sell what I have and go with one of these.  I had the GFX 50s and its a great camera and IQ is excellent, especially Skin tones which is important to me. I am retired and shoot very few jobs and Mainly family and friends( which you all know is Non PAID ) I call it charity BUT I love what I do and have been for over 45 years shooting. If I had to settle down and get JUST one camera and 1 or 2 less at most I would like to choose one of the 2 mentioned. I know the Hassy costs more than the GFX but this year I know the prices will come down when the 100mp come out. Then I will see what I should do then.  So, I am putting it out there to see what others can add to my thinking. Thank you.  I hope the tread does NOT cause any hard feelings as it can be subjective as we all know.  Thanks
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Kirk_C on February 05, 2019, 09:58:20 pm

Do I see advantages with the X1D? Some:

- It seems that X1D is more focused on compact design.
- Leaf shutter design works better with electronic flash. Some deny this, but laws of physics say otherwise.


Just holding the X1D feels better. It's so much more comfortable and compact than the GFX50 R or S with the comparable lens.

I can switch on HS with my Broncolor lights or HSS with my Profoto and Bowens lights but I'd rather just use a leaf shutter and not have to contend with the power loss and color shift. This is a significant advantage for me because I light almost everything I shoot.
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: BobShaw on February 06, 2019, 12:57:19 am
I would get the GFX....its more responsive than the X1D in use, and a very well-made camera and the GF lens line is rounding out very nicely. For your needs, I'd also seriously consider the GFX50R, which is lighter and easy to handle. You have the backing of a company that firmly stands behind its products, and has a professional service and support service for GF-series owners if needed. As for the Hasselblad, I'd be worried about support over the long-term. Hasselblad is now owned by DJI who was just rocked last week by a major corruption scandal.

And...there's now full Capture One support for Fujifilm MF cameras...this is a BIG deal, as far as I am concerned. Your requirements may vary.

You say that you "would get" so I take it you don't actually own either?
The GFX50R is lighter and easier to handle than what? Certainly not the X1D. As for Hasselblad service and backing, well they have been doing medium format cameras for my whole life and more. I like Fuji cameras and used Fuji panoramic film cameras for some time, but their history in MF digital is yet to be tested by time. I now have the X1D and it is a fabulous camera. Particularly if you use flash outdoors it will absolutely blow away the Fuji with a sync speed a full  4 stops  better.
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: vjbelle on February 06, 2019, 07:41:51 am
The X1D is now discontinued according to Lloyd Chambers so that may put a new wrinkle in your decision making. 

Victor
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Rob C on February 06, 2019, 04:03:58 pm
I only once owned a medium format camera with a focal plane shutter - a brand new Pentax 67 ll - and it was a hopeless combination that ruined a beautifully made camera. That shutter bounced too much. I don't know that anything that's that large and designed to do what it has to do can avoid bounce.

Rob
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 06, 2019, 05:36:05 pm
The X1D is now discontinued according to Lloyd Chambers so that may put a new wrinkle in your decision making. 

Victor

Discontinued because the X1D DmkII should be announced very soon.

It seems obvious that it's going to fix the UI glitches seen in the X1D (in particular focus selection) and may feature both 50mp and 100mp sensors.

I would definitely wait to see what it has to offer.

Hopefully the DJI culture will have helped and we are going to get a working camera from day one... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: SrMi on February 06, 2019, 06:13:28 pm
I am thinking of adding Fuji GFX50 S to my X1D system.

I perceive GFX as having two advantages over X1D:
- Focus stacking (which may or may not be added with the X1D mark II)
- Tiltable EVF (EVF-TL1)

I am not reading much feedback about EVF-TL1. Does anyone have it and like it?
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Christopher on February 07, 2019, 02:22:13 am
ItĎs a very interesting time. I hope the new X1D has a version with the 100Mp sensor. I doubt that however, as I think there are other reasons for Fuji putting the sensor in a larger case than just IBIS and different form factor. (Heat is a major problem)

I for one would honestly take a serious look again at a X1D in that size with the 100MP sensor. While I would miss the long Fuji Glass a lot, it could be interesting.

Just a Mkii with the same sensor, would be at least for me a huge disappointment, it would be much better if Fuji wasnít the only one using the 100Mp sensor exclusively.


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Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 07, 2019, 04:52:13 am
ItĎs a very interesting time. I hope the new X1D has a version with the 100Mp sensor. I doubt that however, as I think there are other reasons for Fuji putting the sensor in a larger case than just IBIS and different form factor. (Heat is a major problem)

I for one would honestly take a serious look again at a X1D in that size with the 100MP sensor. While I would miss the long Fuji Glass a lot, it could be interesting.

Just a Mkii with the same sensor, would be at least for me a huge disappointment, it would be much better if Fuji wasnít the only one using the 100Mp sensor exclusively.

Indeed, fully agreed. An X1D mkII with the current 50mp would be dead in the water the moment it hits the shelves.

There is no way Hasselblad doesn't know that though...

My bet is on a 100mp version to become available in late spring time frame.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Christopher on February 07, 2019, 09:48:01 am
Honestly with the heat problem the sensor is giving Phase I have huge doubt Hasselblad can put it in to the current form factor. Would really be great if they did. :)


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Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Kirk_C on February 07, 2019, 03:00:16 pm
Honestly with the heat problem the sensor is giving Phase I have huge doubt Hasselblad can put it in to the current form factor. Would really be great if they did. :)

Clearly the 100MP sensor won't work in the X1D because of the heat. IF we see a new mirrorless HB with a 100MP sensor the form factor will have to be new.

I think we are more likely to see an improved X1D II with increased res in the ELV from a newer sensor that also improves AF.

With all the discussions on the S1 and why it's so big I think it's pretty obvious it's about the heat from the sensor and the extensive video processing that the camera will eventually be able to do, creating more heat. I think Panasonic has just begun their foray into FF.
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: BobShaw on February 07, 2019, 04:32:18 pm
Te X1D is still being sold on the Hasselblad.com website. The dealers don't have stocks and never have had many. I am guessing that they have  been told there will be no more shipments and so have marked them as discontinued. Points to an announcement pretty soon.

I don't know if a 100MP version is a necessity. If people NEED 100MP then there is the H6D. If there was an option I probably would be happy with a 50MP X1D as I think most people would.
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 07, 2019, 06:36:49 pm
Clearly the 100MP sensor won't work in the X1D because of the heat. IF we see a new mirrorless HB with a 100MP sensor the form factor will have to be new.

The heat/power consumption issue experienced by P1 is with the larger 150mp part.

What is the available data to claim that the same issue is present with the 33x44mm 100mp part?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Christopher on February 08, 2019, 02:43:41 am
Well because the sensor generation is identical, because doing better, faster readout takes more processing power. I think there is a reason we havenít seen any 8k camera in a small format. The new Sony sensors can do it, but that wonít mean we are seeing it soon in a small package.

Iím hope Iím wrong, but I still believe going to the larger form factor with the GFX100 wasnít only because of IBIS and the take, bigger is better ;)

My guess is Fuji wouldnít state that, but itís heat, battery power, processing power and so forth.




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Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Kirk_C on February 08, 2019, 08:03:15 pm
Well because the sensor generation is identical, because doing better, faster readout takes more processing power. I think there is a reason we havenít seen any 8k camera in a small format. The new Sony sensors can do it, but that wonít mean we are seeing it soon in a small package.

Iím hope Iím wrong, but I still believe going to the larger form factor with the GFX100 wasnít only because of IBIS and the take, bigger is better ;)

My guess is Fuji wouldnít state that, but itís heat, battery power, processing power and so forth.



Yes that is the consensus from what I've read. Heat's the limiting factor in the next step in resolution and the processing of that resolution. GFX100 = Larger body. Panasonic S1R = Larger body.
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: gkroeger on February 08, 2019, 09:34:00 pm

Yes that is the consensus from what I've read. Heat's the limiting factor in the next step in resolution and the processing of that resolution. GFX100 = Larger body. Panasonic S1R = Larger body.

Of course both the GFX100 and S1R are sporting 4K video... which is what generates lots of heat.  Hasselblad could opt to focus on stills and skip 4K.
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Dan Wells on February 08, 2019, 11:24:20 pm
Except that the Panasonic is very similar in resolution and speed to two cameras with much smaller bodies. All things being equal, a denser sensor should run hotter, and a larger sensor of the same density should run hotter. There are probably other differences due to sensor technology - could the Panasonic's technology be less thermally efficent than the latest generation of Sony BSI sensors?
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Kirk_C on February 08, 2019, 11:58:23 pm
..could the Panasonic's technology be less thermally efficent than the latest generation of Sony BSI sensors?

Since we don't know who's making the sensor it's hard to say.

I have several friends that are major league cinematographers and they're all talking about Panasonic imaking a serious foray into FF with the emphasis on video. Maybe we'll see 6K at a higher bit rate or 8K from the S1R.

Panasonic is known for very good color that's easy to grade in their mid-level and Pro cinema cameras (https://www.cinema5d.com/panasonic-varicam-35-review-challenging-the-arri-alexa/).

When you think about the L mount alliance it's reasonable to expect Panasonic to be the ones to pursue video over stills. Video is not likely to be the emphasis for Leica and Sigma is talking about a new camera but with a Foveon sensor.
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Dan Wells on February 09, 2019, 12:16:54 am
That's what I thought they were going to do - but the frame and data rates are similar to the Z7 - good, but nothing groundbreaking... Maybe they'll put fantastic video in it with a firmware update?
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Christopher on February 09, 2019, 01:41:32 am
Isnít that he plan already.


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Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Kirk_C on February 09, 2019, 02:23:53 am
Isnít that he plan already.

Yes that is the plan. They've stated there will be paid firmware updates but there's little information about what they'll offer.

Let's not forget the elephant in the room. Sony has an A7S III coming, it seems right to assume. So Panasonic releases the S1 and S1R early, talks about future paid updates and protects some potential market share.

Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: Msstudio on April 18, 2019, 02:03:56 am
If I would be retired and was looking for a versatile (non strobe shooting) and lighter weight body, I would take a hard look a the Nikon Z7. High resolution if needed. Always light, relatively quick (especially compared to the MF category), nice ergonomics, great lenses as they come out. I personally love to use the 35 or 50 and just switch from full frame to crop frame for "different" focal length. And all for a fair'ish price...(on the other hand, I love my X1D, it's like shooting a quick and hand held 4x5 Technika...)
Title: Re: Hasselblad XD1 or Fuji GFX50s
Post by: D Fuller on April 21, 2019, 11:28:20 pm
That's what I thought they were going to do - but the frame and data rates are similar to the Z7 - good, but nothing groundbreaking... Maybe they'll put fantastic video in it with a firmware update?

Doesnít the S1 record 10-bit 4:2:2 internally? Thatís a significant benefit, requiring a significantly higher data rate, unless itís compressed to the point where it loses its advantages.