Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: narikin on January 27, 2019, 12:13:11 pm
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As we move into February, it would be good to take stock of where we are with the IQ4.
There was a lot of dealers being defensive here at first, confident a quick update would solve things, but now realising that Phase is struggling with getting it working properly, and getting the features it promised into the IQ4. They've take a lot of flack from users, and are caught in the middle, between disappointed customers and Phase not delivering the goods.
Nobody is complaining about the sensor or its abilities, and those who use an XF are kind of ok, though still with a few annoying niggles. Tech camera users have been royally screwed though, and it's amazing Phase would let that happen.
Clearly there are many here who have insisted on keeping their IQ3 till non-Beta IQ4 firmware is released. And fair enough. I did read of one person returning their IQ4 even. Fair enough also.
So - major firmware update is needed, but nobody knows when it's coming. Cables/ leads/ adapters are needed for tech users, along with working sync ability. I also feel some kind of recompense by Phase is required here for loyal customers who have been left hanging. These are professional tools, used by people who make a living from their work.
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So - major firmware update is needed, but nobody knows when it's coming. Cables/ leads/ adapters are needed for tech users, along with working sync ability. I also feel some kind of recompense by Phase is required here for loyal customers who have been left hanging. These are professional tools, used by people who make a living from their work.
Nobody desperately needs 150MP. If you are a professional, I suspect you would keep your IQ3100 until the bugs are worked out. Early adopters always run into these kind of issues. It's the nature of technology.
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Nobody desperately needs 150MP. If you are a professional, I suspect you would keep your IQ3100 until the bugs are worked out. Early adopters always run into these kind of issues. It's the nature of technology.
nope, it is a nature of P1's desire to release the new product and start getting customer's money while saving their own money on development & testing, that simple...
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Nobody desperately needs 150MP. If you are a professional, I suspect you would keep your IQ3100 until the bugs are worked out. Early adopters always run into these kind of issues. It's the nature of technology.
Sigh.
Not so. I need and will use 150mp. *You* may not, but your needs are not mine.
Phase's upgrade paths have been seamless till now, every iteration had worked out the box, so people learned to have confidence in them. Clearly you don't understand that part of the upgrade path was returning your old back, usually direct swap, but up to 7 days possible. We're well past that now.
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Clearly you don't understand that part of the upgrade path was returning your old back, usually direct swap, but up to 7 days possible. We're well past that now.
I do understand that most people trade-in rather than buy outright. I am just saying that it is prudent to wait for the reviews to come in regarding bugs and fixes before jumping in head first, particularly when your livelihood depends on it. I can't possibly see how that is controversial.
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BECAUSE... Phase have been 100% bulletproof up till now. The one truly reliable pro MF back company that delivered.
Of course if you are Pro with a good dealer, they will make sure you have a backup solution. Mine has. For free. That's why many of us are using an IQ3 still, but want our IQ4 to be working, as it has a much *better* BSI sensor. Period. It really isn't complicated.
Be great to hear from other users in the same boat, rather than the could've... should've... crowd.
Thanks.
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Well I still have both systems as I didn’t want to upgrade my IQ3100.
For me the issue isn’t that big. I can use both cameras and for what I shoot the IQ4 performs very good.
Don’t get me wrong, the whole release isn’t great and shows big errors in judgement between marketing and the technical department. The back should not have been presented in August and should not have shipped with that firmware version.
I get the anger and it’s by far the biggest screw up phase one ever did. While the back works for me and delivers stunning results, it’s embarrassing that not even 1/3 of the Iq3 features were implemented at shipping time.
I’m very confident that phase is working hard on a big firmware release. I have the feeling they want to get us most of the missing thing in one swoop and not in a trickle by releasing a version every week.
In addition, I think lots of Energy is going into testing it and making it as reliable as possible. (As was the previous Generation)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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There was a lot of dealers being defensive here at first, confident a quick update would solve things
"defensive" seems to have a weird connotation. I don't feel that I've been "defensive" but you are right that I'm confident that P1 will release firmware that provides much-needed functionality such as Auto-Exposure in Live View.
They've take a lot of flack from users, and are caught in the middle, between disappointed customers and Phase not delivering the goods.
This seems to provide pity dealers. I appreciate the sentiment, but we are not "caught" in the middle. It is literally our job to be in the middle and, when P1 is not delivering, make sure our clients are still taken care of.
We train our staff that problems are opportunities to show the value of our service and support. Accordingly, DT has undertaken any number of creative paths in the last few months to make sure our clients who invested in the IQ4 are happy, while P1 sorts out the firmware.
In other words, I'm glad to take the flack :). It's my job.
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You have to see everybody at DT walking around with "flack" jackets on, quite a funny sight. Particularly the customized one Doug is wearing. On a more serious note, the IQ4 is such a promising quality product that ones Phase gets over this self created hump this DB will be an incredible tool. The dealers have to pick up the slack and I feel are doing just that. in my case, DT has been really accommodating and have been aware in what way they can make this transition least disruptive. I was able to hold on to the IQ3 as back up by my dealer since I'm a full on tech cam shooter.
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in my case, DT has been really accommodating and have been aware in what way they can make this transition least disruptive. I was able to hold on to the IQ3 as back up by my dealer since I'm a full on tech cam shooter.
Yeah, my dealer too, and it's not DT.
Most everyone is doing their level best to cover this issue for customers.
Mine tracked down my original back (in DK) and got it returned for my interim use. And more.
It's just I want a fully working IQ4, not my old IQ3 back.
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Let's see if Hassy brings out a similar back. Their H6 platform is reasonably modern, so maybe they will not have the minor issues which seem to be annoying Phase, issues that seem related to introducing new embedded computer.
Edmund
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Used mine on two assignments this week with the RM3di.
It's been fantastic up until today when I needed to trigger some flashes for fill light and couldn't with the ES.
I for one need the cables yesterday but am making do.
Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk
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It's been fantastic up until today when I needed to trigger some flashes for fill light and couldn't with the ES.
That's correct. You can't use flash with ES. You'll need MS.
Regards,
Jaap.
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ES seems to be working very well. A few very minor issues, but nothing to complain about.
And of course it is the ultimate way (as in sharpest) to make the exposure. No mirror, no shutter, not even Leaf, and if tethered, no physical contact whatsoever.
The IQ4 improves this ability with a very fast image sweep, if that matters to you.
My longer lenses (150-300mm) have benefited the most from ES, it's been a revelation how sharp the Mamiya A 300mm APO lenses actually is. It only seemed 'ok' till I had ES, then I realised what an amazing piece of optics it really is!
Sadly I can't use ES for most of my work, due to movement.
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As we move into February, it would be good to take stock of where we are with the IQ4.
There was a lot of dealers being defensive here at first, confident a quick update would solve things, but now realising that Phase is struggling with getting it working properly, and getting the features it promised into the IQ4. They've take a lot of flack from users, and are caught in the middle, between disappointed customers and Phase not delivering the goods.
Nobody is complaining about the sensor or its abilities, and those who use an XF are kind of ok, though still with a few annoying niggles. Tech camera users have been royally screwed though, and it's amazing Phase would let that happen.
Clearly there are many here who have insisted on keeping their IQ3 till non-Beta IQ4 firmware is released. And fair enough. I did read of one person returning their IQ4 even. Fair enough also.
So - major firmware update is needed, but nobody knows when it's coming. Cables/ leads/ adapters are needed for tech users, along with working sync ability. I also feel some kind of recompense by Phase is required here for loyal customers who have been left hanging. These are professional tools, used by people who make a living from their work.
There's no question this has been one of the roughest Phase One product launches I can remember.
No one can argue that.
Recent launches have been pretty smooth (though the lack of USB 3 implementation on IQ1 did go on for months and months).
But there have been some confounding factors here, and mostly with numerous features and operational aspects that were standard in IQ3 that have disappeared with IQ4. There's a lot of promise, but Phase One is playing catch up.
It does always confuse me though when someone wants to call out dealers, as you have done, when the only dealers who regularly contribute here are Doug and yours truly. It feels like the "defensive dealers" is some sort of internal playlist you have on repeat play. And considering there are only 2 common contributors who are very separate dealerships, it would be nice to be more specific and not paint with broad brushes. I would appreciate it.
I will add that I look forward to the needed updates, they can't come too soon.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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There's no question this has been one of the roughest Phase One product launches I can remember.
But there have been some confounding factors here, and mostly with numerous features and operational aspects that were standard in IQ3 that have disappeared with IQ4. There's a lot of promise, but Phase One is playing catch up.
Steve Hendrix/CI
Right! It's so weird when basic features actually disappeared. Even the 'ready' audio beep has gone! So strange that they released it stripped of many simple things, which customers had used for years.
It does always confuse me though when someone wants to call out dealers, as you have done, when the only dealers who regularly contribute here are Doug and yours truly. It feels like the "defensive dealers" is some sort of internal playlist you have on repeat play. And considering there are only 2 common contributors who are very separate dealerships, it would be nice to be more specific and not paint with broad brushes. I would appreciate it.
Steve Hendrix/CI
I didn't feel I was 'calling out' dealers. Stop being such petals!
'Flack catcher' is quite a well known term, surprised anyone would query that. Steve and Doug (here) and others (Teamwork, etc) have clearly taken a lot of complaints and frustration from their customers, and had to act as a buffer /Complaints Dept between Phase One and the customer. (Let's face it Phase are pretty unresponsive to direct customer contact. A query on their forum is answered on the 12th of never, and it's mostly stock replies) So the dealers have taken some friendly flack (from customers, I mean) That's a phrase I don't find that odd. Apologies if it is to your ears.
'Defensive' well, we have been hinted that a new firmware update will come and fix things soon, and that has been dangled with a kind of 'Please Hold'. And we are still holding.
I've been messaged offline, suggesting my dealer should do more - but in my case, without the hardware, pin out specifications, and new sync capable firmware, the ball is in Denmark's Court. I have my old IQ3 back, and am working the same was I did last year. It's ok, but not where I want to be. My dealer is as frustrated as I am, they have a good number of customers with Silex/FPS that can't sync with IQ4. Alpa are frustrated too, as Phase leave them hanging.
Does Phase One owe early adopters (paying customers who turned out to be Beta testers) some kind of recompense? A Rebate? 50% discount on a lens? Capture One Pro for life? I have a nice paperweight sitting here meanwhile.
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Right! It's so weird when basic features actually disappeared. Even the 'ready' audio beep has gone! So strange that they released it stripped of many simple things, which customers had used for years.
Remember that from the IQ3 to the IQ4 they changed the sensor, all internal hardware, operating system, UI, and external interfaces. All at the same time.
That means every single feature P1 wanted on the IQ4, they had to make from scratch. Including any feature that was already implemented on the older IQ1/2/3 platform. Honestly, it's pretty gutsy to completely revamp a product like this.
This is not an excuse, just an explanation. If you wonder why something like the ready audio beep isn't there in the current firmware it's because if they want a ready beep they have to make it from scratch. It's not that they "stripped" it away. That's a pretty minor one, but of course there are a few really significant omissions like an option to switch to AutoExposure for live preview; the default (currently only) Exposure Simulation mode is a great option for many shooting scenarios, but not in low light and not for studio strobe use.
We (DT) have been very careful to make sure anyone taking delivery of an IQ4 is aware of what features are currently enabled and working great, and which are still to be delivered. We've found creative workarounds (https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/dt-copal-shutter-workaround-for-phase-one-iq4-150mp/) to some of the limitations. We've made special accommodations wherever possible. I consider it our job to keep our clients happy; though I'd certainly welcome a major IQ4 firmware update very soon as it would make that job easier :).
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Truth be told I've been away from Phase One close to 2-years now. However how can any company think it be correct in offering an incomplete item for sale? Much like buying a car with 3-wheels; we'll get that 4th to you soon.
P1 lost a lot of credibility on the USB connection several years ago and this seems worse yet. Yes, I understand this is new from the ground up however you simply don't offer an incomplete project for sale.
Did the early buyers know of the incompleteness and bought into it anyways? If so then they share the blame.
Bottom line if the project (anything) isn't completely ready for sale why offer it. It's be like me offering a blank canvas telling my client I'd fill it in later.
Just my 2-cents
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Truth be told I've been away from Phase One close to 2-years now. However how can any company think it be correct in offering an incomplete item for sale? Much like buying a car with 3-wheels; we'll get that 4th to you soon.
P1 lost a lot of credibility on the USB connection several years ago and this seems worse yet. Yes, I understand this is new from the ground up however you simply don't offer an incomplete project for sale.
Did the early buyers know of the incompleteness and bought into it anyways? If so then they share the blame.
Bottom line if the project (anything) isn't completely ready for sale why offer it. It's be like me offering a blank canvas telling my client I'd fill it in later.
Just my 2-cents
Well I can't say that I agree with you that early buyers share any of the blame.
First off, they ordered well before the product even shipped (like, 3 months before it shipped). So how would they have known?
Secondly, while there are missing features, for some these are not deal breakers in terms of being able to capture something the way they need it to be captured. I had numerous clients who were happy to receive their IQ4 150 units in December to use on projects that would benefit from the pixel count as well as the technical camera advantages.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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My guess is that’s why Hasselblad has been so quite, they already 90% crashed with the introduction of the first mirror less medium format body.
I tried the 150 out 2 months ago a bit buggy but nice images in the end clumsy though.
Heck the latest MacBook Pro had issues at delivery last year!
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Heard an random rumor that Phase are dragging their feet with enabling sync firmware/ releasing hardware leads & connectors for tech users because they are planning to release their own tech solution, maybe in collaboration with one of the existing manufacturers, like Cambo.
I hope that is just a piece of silly gossip, and not true.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if true, but honestly I hope not. I am quite happy with my Arca system.
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For P1 to switch from their limited Alpa partnership to Cambo would be an interesting move. To hold other tech shooters besides Cambo hostage, due to some new partnership, would be an even bigger surprise. But P1 knows they hit the mark 100% on the IQ4 for tech cameras, (first time ever really) so something might be in the works for sure.
Paul C
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The strange thing is they *had* a partnership with Alpa, with all that 'A Series' hoopla. So what happened with that relationship? Did they just see the price of Alpa gear and decide they want all those $, not just the most expensive bit? Won't they do the same thing with Cambo, or whomever in a few years?
Take all this with a decent pinch of salt. It's likely not true. Easy to see a conspiracy where there is just confusion!
(But... if I was Alpa or Arca or whomever, I'd be headed to Shenzen with a Hahnel 12 pin, to get it copied adapted. I hear they are rather good at that there!)
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I have read the comments through today 1/31/2019. Thanks for all the thoughtful comments and insights. Lucky to have a site such as LL.
I have been testing in the field for 30 days. Below is a post about my feelings to-date:
http://jefflubeck.net/2019/01/28/the-phase-one-iq450-is-it-worth-it/
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I just came back from Death Valley using the IQ4 150 on a Cambo Actus DB and the XF, and despite the firmware limitations, the LCC difference on a tech camera and wide angle is very significant and I have no regrets. It appears I won’t even need an LLC on my 40 or above. (and can get away without it on the 28 some of the time). I realize some absolutely must have features that aren’t there yet, and I hated not being able to use capture pilot to compose and focus on my iPhone, but I for one am glad they didn’t delay the back until the firmware was finished.
I’m pretty stoked that I can easily make 84-100” long images from a single capture. I’ve been stitching for a long time, and at this point the only time I will probably need to stitch is if the lens I’m using can’t cover the composition I’m trying to capture. Translates to less time behind the computer and more time doing other things.
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Wayne,
Good points.
The challenge is losing (at least for a time) an aspect of functionality that may be crucial to one's work when the promise was quicker-faster-better-more. As with you, I place trust that PHASE ONE will deliver on their promise, and will go with the IQ4 151 as is for now. I am about to move from my XF testing of this past month to the Cambo.
p.s. went to your site... superb work!