Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: BernardLanguillier on January 22, 2019, 01:41:22 pm

Title: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 22, 2019, 01:41:22 pm
https://m.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z-50mm-f1point8-s-lens-review/3

Very high score for the 50mm f1.8 S at DPreview. In particular outstanding color correction and coma.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: John Camp on January 23, 2019, 03:50:59 pm
Anybody know if Nikon has specified release dates for the second wave of native lenses?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 23, 2019, 11:02:41 pm
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/12/31/rumored-nikon-z-mirrorless-lenses-2019-release-schedule.aspx/

But:
- we now have a clear date for the 14-30mm f4
- it seems that the 20mm f1.8 was moved to 2020 and the 24mm f1.8 is now scheduled for 2019.

Regards,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Dan Wells on January 24, 2019, 02:14:39 am
That 14-30 looks great! I can't wait to hit the trails this summer with the 14-30 and 24-70...
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 24, 2019, 05:23:53 am
I am very impressed with the design of the 24 to 70. The way itís folds into a compact size when not in use. Thatís very clever.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: HSakols on January 24, 2019, 08:59:11 am
Darn! I hoped that the 20 1.8 would come out this year.  It would be perfect for stars and night photography.  Until then I'll play around with my 20 2.8 AFD.  The 14-30 looks great, but I don't think it will work well for night skys. 
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Dan Wells on January 24, 2019, 12:01:06 pm
Is the 14-30 not going to be a great night sky lens because it's f4? I'm not an astrophotographer myself, so I don't really know whether fast lenses are preferred. I can see the star trail issue with a slower lens, but I'd think there would be a depth of field issue with a really wide aperture if you had anything in the foreground (a sky-only shot is by definition entirely at infinity). The 14-30 is going to be very sharp at 20mm from what little we've seen.

Dan
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on January 24, 2019, 02:31:02 pm
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/12/31/rumored-nikon-z-mirrorless-lenses-2019-release-schedule.aspx/

But:
- we now have a clear date for the 14-30mm f4
- it seems that the 20mm f1.8 was moved to 2020 and the 24mm f1.8 is now scheduled for 2019.

Regards,
Bernard

Where did you get this? On that link is not clear.
Says 14-30 coming this spring, I'm noy sure that qualifies as a "clear date". As far as I can see the 20 F1.8 is still scheduled for this year.
If anything I would rather have the 20 1.8 first as I already have the 24 1.8 in F-mount.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Dan Wells on January 24, 2019, 02:43:21 pm
I've seen a date in April for the 14-30... 15th? 30th?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on January 24, 2019, 02:53:10 pm
I've seen a date in April for the 14-30... 15th? 30th?

Ahhh, too late for my Spring travels. Good that I have the Fuji 10-24 though, an excellent lens.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Hulyss on February 13, 2019, 05:15:09 am
Back on the initial subject of the thread, the Z mount lenses.


Here is the fresh review of the 24-70f4S by photgraphylife :

https://photographylife.com/reviews/nikon-z-24-70mm-f4-s

Summary:

This lense is better in many aspects than the late 24-70 f2.8 (F mount). It have some issues but completely fixable in post. They used 4 differents samples to draw those conclusions. One of them is that there is, at first glance, very low sample variations. They do not like that much the collapsible design but it feels good.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Hulyss on February 14, 2019, 04:50:04 am
New Z lense unveiled this morning : The Nikkor Z 24-70 f2.8 S

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/z-mount/z_24-70mmf28s/index.htm

Seems to be a good lense, priced around 2500 USD or 2499 Ä in Europe.

The only zoom I'm keeping is the f4 version because of his price/versatility/IQ ratio. I'm waiting the medium tele such as the 85f1.8.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: jeremyrh on February 14, 2019, 05:15:48 pm
I'm waiting the medium tele such as the 85f1.8.

Me too, 'cos my 85/1.4 won't focus on the Z7 :-(
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 14, 2019, 05:42:34 pm
I also think that Nikon needs to add a 85mm f1.2 to their roadmap pretty quickly. ;)

This is basically the main hole compared to what Canon announced yesterday.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: John Camp on February 14, 2019, 09:45:17 pm
I also think that Nikon needs to add a 85mm f1.2 to their roadmap pretty quickly. ;)

This is basically the main hole compared to what Canon announced yesterday.

Cheers,
Bernard

I was a little surprised that there wasn't one in the initial batch. I'd think you'd want a good landscape lens, a decent zoom and a portrait lens right up front. If I was the big boss at Nikon, there'd be an 85 instead of a 50 up front.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 14, 2019, 11:17:16 pm
I was a little surprised that there wasn't one in the initial batch. I'd think you'd want a good landscape lens, a decent zoom and a portrait lens right up front. If I was the big boss at Nikon, there'd be an 85 instead of a 50 up front.

Indeed, a 85mm f1.2 should have been early on the roadmap.

My 105mm f1.4 is a bit bulky on the Z.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 15, 2019, 03:01:21 pm
S vs E spec/MTF comparison.

https://nikonrumors.com/2019/02/15/nikkor-z-24-70mm-f-2-8-s-vs-nikkor-24-70mm-f-2-8e-ed-vr-specifications-comparison.aspx/

The new lens looks like an impressive performer from an MTF standpoint, but based on other Z lenses I expect its color correction to be its strongest quality.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on February 17, 2019, 12:05:15 pm
A question for those using the Z system, how good/bad are the native 35 & 50 primes when shooting wide open? How is the bokeh?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 17, 2019, 04:03:35 pm
A question for those using the Z system, how good/bad are the native 35 & 50 primes when shooting wide open? How is the bokeh?

Both lenses are extremely good wide open with a specially impressive level of color correction (the 50 more than the 35). The 50mm is IMHO one of the best 50mm available.

The bokeh of the 35mm is average, that of the 50mm is overall pretty good but shows aspherical elements grinding marks in highlight bokeh balls akin to what you see with the Otus 55mm f1.4 or the new Canon R 28-70 f2.0.

I personnally find those ugly and I tend to apply some PS blur on them in images where they are visible.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on February 18, 2019, 08:17:24 am
Thanks Bernard, appreciated.

OOF qualities when working at wide apertures are extremely important to much of the work I'm currently shooting. Trouble is I'm used to Leica M lenses and I'm looking to replicate those qualities in a really compact full frame autofocus system as an addition to the M system.

Still searching...
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Rob C on February 18, 2019, 08:33:36 am
Thanks Bernard, appreciated.

OOF qualities when working at wide apertures are extremely important to much of the work I'm currently shooting. Trouble is I'm used to Leica M lenses and I'm looking to replicate those qualities in a really compact full frame autofocus system as an addition to the M system.

Still searching...


Keith, you are close to London: go to Greys of Westminster and ask for a test shoot there and then. Since my local wholesaler abandoned Mallorca, I have bought from them by post and find them honest, professional and very fair. A few minutes shooting outside the door would answer all your questions by your own hand, the best test there ever is.

Rob
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on February 18, 2019, 10:27:48 am

Keith, you are close to London: go to Greys of Westminster and ask for a test shoot there and then. Since my local wholesaler abandoned Mallorca, I have bought from them by post and find them honest, professional and very fair. A few minutes shooting outside the door would answer all your questions by your own hand, the best test there ever is.
Rob

Rob, to be really sure I'd rent and make the comparison with what I already have. I used to use Greys but have an excellent Nikon dealer closer to home, avoids costly train fares or congestion charges and they offer a rental refund on purchases.

You mentioned elsewhere that I should listen carefully to V. At times I get somewhat frustrated when I miss focus when shooting wide apertures with manual focus Leica lenses but the qualities when the Gods are on my side more than compensate. I'm envious of V's auto focus, image stabilised capabilities and she's envious of the qualities of my Leica lenses.

The grass is always greener...   
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Rob C on February 18, 2019, 12:25:57 pm
Rob, to be really sure I'd rent and make the comparison with what I already have. I used to use Greys but have an excellent Nikon dealer closer to home, avoids costly train fares or congestion charges and they offer a rental refund on purchases.

You mentioned elsewhere that I should listen carefully to V. At times I get somewhat frustrated when I miss focus when shooting wide apertures with manual focus Leica lenses but the qualities when the Gods are on my side more than compensate. I'm envious of V's auto focus, image stabilised capabilities and she's envious of the qualities of my Leica lenses.

The grass is always greener...
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on February 19, 2019, 10:22:20 am
Unusually brief, Rob.

;-)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Larry451 on February 27, 2019, 01:34:22 pm
I own Zeiss 21mm 35mm 50mm 100mm planar & 135mm sonnar  on a nikon 800e.
I'm thinking of buying  the nikon Z7, mostly for it's stabilization in camera
Can I buy an adapter for my older zeiss lenses??
thanks
Larry.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 27, 2019, 06:51:43 pm
I own Zeiss 21mm 35mm 50mm 100mm planar & 135mm sonnar  on a nikon 800e.
I'm thinking of buying  the nikon Z7, mostly for it's stabilization in camera
Can I buy an adapter for my older zeiss lenses??

I believe the FTZ should work totally fine for this.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 01, 2019, 03:40:04 am
I just tried the eye AF with 24-70mm f2.8 at 70mm/f2.8... it works great.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: vjbelle on March 01, 2019, 07:49:53 am
Can anyone confirm or not that the internal stabilization system works when a manual lanes (such as an Otis) is used?

Victor
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on March 01, 2019, 03:27:02 pm
As appealing as the 15-30 is I'm very curious about he 14-24 F 2.8 size/weight.
The reason is I could eliminate a wide lens for night photography and then the weight might be worth it. I know that when I was thinking to go Sony route I was more tempted by the 16-35 F 2.8 than the F4 or the 12-24 F4 for this exact reason.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on March 01, 2019, 03:56:37 pm
As appealing as the 15-30 is I'm very curious about he 14-24 F 2.8 size/weight.
The reason is I could eliminate a wide lens for night photography and then the weight might be worth it. I know that when I was thinking to go Sony route I was more tempted by the 16-35 F 2.8 than the F4 or the 12-24 F4 for this exact reason.
I am surprised at how many people buy fast lenses for low light photography, yet you don't see much low light photography online. The difference between f2.8 and f4 is one stop. Given the low light performance of modern sensors, just dial up the ISO one stop.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on March 01, 2019, 05:35:57 pm
I am surprised at how many people buy fast lenses for low light photography, yet you don't see much low light photography online. The difference between f2.8 and f4 is one stop. Given the low light performance of modern sensors, just dial up the ISO one stop.

Partially true but many times the difference between iso 6400 and 12800 is not a small deal. As I just found out night photography requires significantly more dedication therefore less people to be into it, plus all the Milky Way shots tend to look the same  ;D
The big question is the difference in weight; for Sony the 16-35 F4 is 520g vs F2.8 at 680g, not such a big difference in weight for 1 extra stop and based on comments better image quality too.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: MichaelEzra on March 01, 2019, 07:48:54 pm
I just tried the eye AF with 24-70mm f2.8 at 70mm/f2.8... it works great.

Cheers,
Bernard

Hi Bernard, is this with beta firmware for Nikon Z or some other camera system?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 01, 2019, 07:55:49 pm
Hi Bernard, is this with beta firmware for Nikon Z or some other camera system?

Yes, the Z beta firmware.

I was at CP+ in Yokohama yesterday.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: MichaelEzra on March 01, 2019, 11:32:08 pm
Great!
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: hogloff on March 02, 2019, 09:43:53 am
I am surprised at how many people buy fast lenses for low light photography, yet you don't see much low light photography online. The difference between f2.8 and f4 is one stop. Given the low light performance of modern sensors, just dial up the ISO one stop.

I stop at high ISO makes a huge difference on image quality. You might not need 2.8 for every shot, but it is very handy when you do.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: D Fuller on March 02, 2019, 04:43:52 pm
Can anyone confirm or not that the internal stabilization system works when a manual lanes (such as an Otis) is used?

Victor

Yes it does. You have to tell the camera the lensís focal length if it does not report that to the camera. My manual lenses are all non=electronic. The Otus series is all ZF2 if Iím not mistaken, so the FTZ  should report the focal length automatically.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: vjbelle on March 03, 2019, 07:46:40 am
Thanks much...... great to know. 

Victor
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 19, 2019, 09:17:18 pm
https://www.sansmirror.com/lenses/lens-reviews/lenses-for-nikon-z/nikon-50mm-f18-s-lens-revie.html

https://www.sansmirror.com/lenses/lens-reviews/lenses-for-nikon-z/nikon-35mm-f18-s-lens-revie.html

Unsurprisingly, excellent lenses.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: vjbelle on March 22, 2019, 07:56:16 am
Both the 50 and 35 would be on my must have list.  I have a difficult time wrapping my head around any zoom. 

Victor
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on March 22, 2019, 07:05:33 pm
At F4 I like the 24-70 zoom @35mm better over the 35mm 1.8 for landscape. Corners are better at infinity.
but maybe i had a bad copy...

Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 11, 2019, 06:02:21 am
For the C1 Pro users who haven't noticed yet, the 24-70 f4S now has a lens profile as of the newly released 12.0.3!

It works pretty well indeed... even when reality is distorted to start with... ;)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7904/47563504671_765f38de7e_h.jpg)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: jeremyrh on April 11, 2019, 09:36:48 am
For the C1 Pro users who haven't noticed yet, the 24-70 f4S now has a lens profile as of the newly released 12.0.3!

It works pretty well indeed... even when reality is distorted to start with... ;)


Before vs After would be instructive :-)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 11, 2019, 03:05:28 pm
Before vs After would be instructive :-)

Sorry, I have no easy way of uploading this but it is very visible.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 13, 2019, 09:06:54 am
What would guys think about the usefulness of a 24-50 f2.0?

Am I the only one to think that it would be much more useful than a 28-70 f2.0?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on April 13, 2019, 10:16:52 am
Would like an f1.4  14-300mm TS lens so I only need one tiny lens...
Please Nikon listen to your costumers!
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 13, 2019, 06:04:14 pm
Would like an f1.4  14-300mm TS lens so I only need one tiny lens...
Please Nikon listen to your costumers!

Of course... but a 24-50 f2.0 is doable...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 13, 2019, 06:11:57 pm
Of course... but a 24-50 f2.0 is doable...
None of my photography requires an f2 zoom, which would undoubtedly be huge. Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be done. Like Nikon's 50mm f0.95 manual focus Z lens. I am sure someone will buy it and Canon's 28-70 f2 zoom though.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on April 14, 2019, 05:40:11 pm
I don't need either but I think a 35-85 F2 would make more sense, a zoom to replace people shooting primes.
At the wide end I don't need such a high aperture in a zoom, unless it's astro photography and it would be huge, both in size and price.
If you really need the large aperture at the wide end, the primes are still easy to use and relatively convenient size wise.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Dan Wells on April 15, 2019, 03:33:11 pm
The longer and faster a lens is, the larger the front element has to be... Theoretically, an 85 f2 only has to be 42.5mm across at the diaphragm, and old manual-focus fixed focal length lenses were not much larger than that at the front element (Nikon's 85mm f2 Ai-S used a 52mm filter, and it actually had a recessed front element that was smaller than that).

For whatever reasons of optical design, zooms tend to have much larger front elements than the minimum they'd need to get the light in (the exception is long telephoto zooms - x-400 f4 lenses tend to be around 105mm or 112mm filter sizes, when the theoretical minimum is 100 mm). Wide zooms need big, domed elements to get enough field of view - but even fast normal zooms have big front elements. The Canon 28-70 f2 is a 3+ pound lens with a 95mm filter size, and even 24-70 f2.8 designs tend to use 77mm and 82mm filters.

It's a guess, but I'd imagine that pushing out to 85mm on an f2 zoom would take a front filter size over 100mm, and the lens would approach if not exceed 4 lbs? Is a lens significantly larger than a 70-200mm f2.8 (maybe halfway between a 70-200mm f2.8 and a 300mm f2.8 ), with a filter size closer to a 300mm f2.8 still useful for what you want?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on April 15, 2019, 07:15:44 pm
There are reviews of the Z 14-30mm lens and the Z 24-70 f2.8 on Camera labs

https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-z-24-70mm-f2-8-s-review/
https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-z-14-30mm-f4-s-review/
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: John Camp on April 16, 2019, 01:04:12 pm
As somebody who shot film for 40 years, I've got a reflexive urge to say "yes" to fast lenses, but I'm now losing that reflex. In terms of low-light shooting, I'm happy enough (with my style of work) to go to 3200, or even 6400 if I have to, which makes up for a lot. I know some people like the shallow(er) depths of field that you get with fast lenses, but my feeling about that is that when I'm looking for really shallow depth of field for some good reason, there are always prime lenses. I can't think of the last time I needed shallow depth of field for a snap shot, where I wouldn't have time to change lenses, and I'm usually carrying a fast 85-equiv when I'm out (Panasonic LUMIX G 42.5mm f/1.7 ASPH.) In fact, it's often already mounted on a second camera. The point being, if I were to get into the Nikon Z system, which is somewhat likely, that 24-70 f4 looks very good to me. I wouldn't want to go to a faster lens if it got bigger. What would be cool would be a set of compact short zooms between 24 and ~120 or so, for people who tend to see either short or long, like 24-50, 50-85, 85-120. I'd kill for a compact 50-85.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: adriantyler on April 16, 2019, 04:39:41 pm
Thanks Bernard, appreciated.

OOF qualities when working at wide apertures are extremely important to much of the work I'm currently shooting. Trouble is I'm used to Leica M lenses and I'm looking to replicate those qualities in a really compact full frame autofocus system as an addition to the M system.

Still searching...

yes, i would take the plunge if the 50 could compete with the summilux or summcron asph in the bokeh dept
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on April 16, 2019, 05:26:00 pm
There are questions out there regarding the 14-30 F4 S, particularly related to its sharpness. I would wait until it's out in the wild and not reviews are coming in.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 16, 2019, 07:38:59 pm
The point being, if I were to get into the Nikon Z system, which is somewhat likely, that 24-70 f4 looks very good to me.

It is outstanding. It punches way above the level suggested by its price and "lens kit" perceived positionning.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7867/47550139092_2cfda6d0e4_h.jpg)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 16, 2019, 08:27:47 pm
It is outstanding. It punches way above the level suggested by its price and "lens kit" perceived positionning.
I don't think anyone perceives the $1000 24-70mm f4 lens to be a "kit lens".
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 17, 2019, 05:03:00 am
yes, i would take the plunge if the 50 could compete with the summilux or summcron asph in the bokeh dept

I'd take the plunge if the M lenses were as excellent on the Z body as they are on the M, which would mean I'd then have the option to use my existing lenses and the native AF lenses on the Z.

It's still possible that I'll take the plunge and buy the Z as an addition to my M system.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 17, 2019, 07:05:42 am
I don't think anyone perceives the $1000 24-70mm f4 lens to be a "kit lens".

Well...
- it can be bought as part of a kit,
- it only costs 600 US$ in that case.

That level of quality for 600 US$ is unheard of, but may lead some people to underestimate the value they are getting.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on April 17, 2019, 10:11:54 am
Well...
- it can be bought as part of a kit,
- it only costs 600 US$ in that case.

That level of quality for 600 US$ is unheard of, but may lead some people to underestimate the value they are getting.

Cheers,
Bernard

About this zoom lens I read a nasty flare can be a problem while shooting with the sun in the frame; have no experience myself.
What I do not like is the auto distortion correction- it should be a photographers choice. In some use it is really necessary to be switched of.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: adriantyler on April 17, 2019, 02:28:18 pm
I'd take the plunge if the M lenses were as excellent on the Z body as they are on the M, which would mean I'd then have the option to use my existing lenses and the native AF lenses on the Z.

It's still possible that I'll take the plunge and buy the Z as an addition to my M system.

if you do take the plunge, iíd love to hear how it goes, especially the 50 summilux asph! my eyes donít work so well with the rangefinder nowerdays...
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Rob C on April 17, 2019, 05:01:21 pm
if you do take the plunge, iíd love to hear how it goes, especially the 50 summilux asph! my eyes donít work so well with the rangefinder nowerdays...


And mine now struggle with reflex screens, which is why I thank those considerate people who overcame the logically impossible and invented autofocus lenses. When I didn't need them I scoffed, and had all sorts of smart reasons why they were obviously a bad thing for photography. Tides turn, I guess. However, a proper reflex screen as of old, with a split-image central spot...

Rob
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 17, 2019, 06:44:26 pm
About this zoom lens I read a nasty flare can be a problem while shooting with the sun in the frame; have no experience myself.
What I do not like the auto distortion correction- it should be a photographers choice. In some use it is really necessary to be switched of.

On C1 Pro distortion isn't corrected unless you activate the profile that is provided. Only LR applies the correction by default.

I have seen one occurrence of bad flare that appeared to be more an issue with ghosting (light reflecting from the sensor to the rear element and back) but it was in very specific conditions (shooting over water with the sun near sunset illuminating a very thin layer of clouds increasing dramatically its apparent size). I have shot straight in the sun many times since then and haven't seen any issue. I would say that the lens is overall very highly flare resistant.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on April 17, 2019, 08:14:27 pm
I wonder what chances are to see a higher quality 24-120 F4 equiv. I used it a lot on the D750. Less great from 70 to 120 but surely beats cropping. A 24-105 would be fine too but it's too close to the current 24-70. I expect to have something in the more consumer range in few years but would be nice to have a similar quality to the current 24-70 F4 S. The problem with the Z-mount (or in my case for Fuji) is that the mount is closed and very small chances to have third party autofocus lenses. This is where Sony did the right thing.

A 24-120 is the ideal minimum for me to have in a travel kit and would cover most scenarios. Yes, I can work with a 24-70/85 equiv but is not as good. A 24-200 range like the newest Sony RX100 or the Oly version would be even better but probably just too big for a full frame.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 18, 2019, 12:56:49 am
Yes, I think that Nikon was stupid not to open the mount.

Because the thing is that the third party will probably develop for E mount and then port to Z and R, meaning that the third party lenses will have a hard time to compete on quality since they will have developed the lens for a mount 20% more narrow and less shallow.

The only exception may be Sigma that is likely to develop for L mount (and skip entirely the E mount market with dedicated mirrorless lenses).

I believe that a more compact 24-120 f4-5.6 may be ok as well providing it is S spec.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 18, 2019, 04:26:48 am
if you do take the plunge, iíd love to hear how it goes, especially the 50 summilux asph! my eyes donít work so well with the rangefinder nowerdays...

Adrian, if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath, every indication is that the M lenses will suffer on the Z, particularly at large apertures. It's a pity and it means if I do take the plunge then the Z will be an addition to the Leica rather than a replacement.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 18, 2019, 08:32:27 am
https://www.dpreview.com/samples/9193092497/nikon-z-24-70mm-f2-8-s-sample-gallery

It seems to offer a remarkable compromise between technical excellence across a wide variety of shooting conditions and sweet look.

I now have first hand experience to confirm what others have reported. This lens is stunningly good.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: adriantyler on April 21, 2019, 09:31:01 am
Adrian, if I were you I wouldn't hold my breath, every indication is that the M lenses will suffer on the Z, particularly at large apertures. It's a pity and it means if I do take the plunge then the Z will be an addition to the Leica rather than a replacement.

yes, itís not something iím counting on, but this chap seems to think otherwise:

https://www.eoshd.com/2018/10/first-ever-shots-from-the-nikon-z7-at-f1-0-with-leica-noctilux-in-the-darkness/
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 21, 2019, 10:27:01 am
yes, it’s not something i’m counting on, but this chap seems to think otherwise:

https://www.eoshd.com/2018/10/first-ever-shots-from-the-nikon-z7-at-f1-0-with-leica-noctilux-in-the-darkness/

Everyone has different subjective opinions about what is acceptable performance.  Take your lenses and a memory card to the store with you and decide for yourself. Better yet, rent the camera for a week before you lay down the long green.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: adriantyler on April 21, 2019, 11:46:43 am
Everyone has different subjective opinions about what is acceptable performance.  Take your lenses and a memory card to the store with you and decide for yourself. Better yet, rent the camera for a week before you lay down the long green.

good advice!
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: D Fuller on April 21, 2019, 11:22:12 pm
Everyone has different subjective opinions about what is acceptable performance.  Take your lenses and a memory card to the store with you and decide for yourself. Better yet, rent the camera for a week before you lay down the long green.

Youíd better plan on taking an M to Z adapter as well. Itís not likely to be a stocked item at most stores.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 22, 2019, 03:35:22 am
Youíd better plan on taking an M to Z adapter as well. Itís not likely to be a stocked item at most stores.

And don't forget your brand new XQD card, XQD reader and that 1010 page menu walkthrough...

;-)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Rob C on April 22, 2019, 07:02:16 am
And don't forget your brand new XQD card, XQD reader and that 1010 page menu walkthrough...

;-)

And some of us thought film photography was expensive and required lots of equipment.

:-)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 22, 2019, 07:22:44 am
And some of us thought film photography was expensive and required lots of equipment.

:-)

And in order to get ACR support from Adobe for the camera and lenses I'd also need to ditch my copy of Photoshop CS6 and pay for a monthly subscription to Adobe Creative Cloud. Yes, I know I could use DNG converter or Nikon special sauce (or whatever it's called) but I'd really rather not.

You know, I think I'll just pass and slum it with my Leicas.

;-)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Rob C on April 22, 2019, 07:48:15 am
And in order to get ACR support from Adobe for the camera and lenses I'd also need to ditch my copy of Photoshop CS6 and pay for a monthly subscription to Adobe Creative Cloud. Yes, I know I could use DNG converter or Nikon special sauce (or whatever it's called) but I'd really rather not.

You know, I think I'll just pass and slum it with my Leicas.

;-)


OMG, Keith, surely something can be done through collective goodwill to help save you from that!

:-)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 24, 2019, 05:19:23 pm
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/04/24/nikon-nikkor-z-50mm-f-1-8-s-lens-tested-at-dxomark-it-comes-close-to-some-of-the-best-and-most-expensive-lenses-currently-available.aspx/

Best CA correction among 50mm lenses. As good overall as lenses costing a lot more.

Such an amazing achievement.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 24, 2019, 05:37:09 pm
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/04/24/nikon-nikkor-z-50mm-f-1-8-s-lens-tested-at-dxomark-it-comes-close-to-some-of-the-best-and-most-expensive-lenses-currently-available.aspx/

Best CA correction among 50mm lenses. As good overall as lenses costing a lot more.

Such an amazing achievement.
What does the number in the box in the DxOMark score mean? For example, for the 50mm Zeiss  Otus in Nikon mount it is "2" and for the 50mm Nikon S it is "38"?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 24, 2019, 05:54:35 pm
What does the number in the box in the DxOMark score mean? For example, for the 50mm Zeiss  Otus in Nikon mount it is "2" and for the 50mm Nikon S it is "38"?

Isnít that the absolute ranking among the lenses they have tested?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 24, 2019, 06:32:37 pm
Isnít that the absolute ranking among the lenses they have tested?
That is what I was thinking, but if the 50mm Nikon S is so great, why is it ranked 38th? I suspect a lot of lenses have the same DxOMark score.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 24, 2019, 06:55:43 pm
That is what I was thinking, but if the 50mm Nikon S is so great, why is it ranked 38th? I suspect a lot of lenses have the same DxOMark score.

You can access the full list easily. You will see that lenses ranked higher include a long list of super tele lenses costing in excess of 10,000 US$,...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: johnvanatta on April 25, 2019, 04:15:51 am
Just ignoring any of DXO's scalar ratings is a good plan. The sharpness field map can be excellent information, but it needs rescaling for modern lenses, since it's basically all green at 1.8.

The 24-70 I'll ding for corner performance, and the 35/1.8 gets a ding for LOCA. Fine lenses, but I can't give top marks. The 50mm seems exceptional though...is there anything at all to dislike?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 25, 2019, 04:33:22 am
The 24-70 I'll ding for corner performance, and the 35/1.8 gets a ding for LOCA. Fine lenses, but I can't give top marks. The 50mm seems exceptional though...is there anything at all to dislike?

The corner performance of the 24-70 f4 is very good, just short of the excellence of the center.

Regarding the 50mm f1.8S, some may say that the bokeh isn't as sweet as some other lenses, but they are typically f1.4 designs. The bokeh is not poor by any means, just not outstanding.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: johnvanatta on April 25, 2019, 06:58:34 pm
I don't think I can go as far as very good, at least not at the wide end. I don't mind low performance at f4, but I was really hoping things would be cleared up by f8. Distant objects in the corner never seem to get good at 24mm...like the mountain in the top right of this test shot. 24mm, f8. I can tell at a glance, without any scrutiny, that it looks bad. A limitation I'll have to compose around.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on April 27, 2019, 10:43:45 am
It seems the new 14-30 is building up a bad rep in regards to its corners, particularly in the 14-17mm range. Some say it's fine and it's close to Sony 12-24 but there are many contrary opinions.

I'm sitting and thinking about the Nikon choices in new lenses and I'm not so sure they are the best choices. I compare to what Sony has in stock now.

For example.
Wide: the 14-30 is likely better than the 16-35 F4 but not than 12-24 F4 or 16-35 F2.8 . If the new 14-28 is not going to be significantly better than Sony's options than I don't see how they can explain the mount advantage they claim.

Allround lens: while the 24-70 F4 S is convenient and light the more versatile range from Sony, 24-105, is not that much heavier and is said to be sharp enough.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 27, 2019, 10:59:15 am
I think the larger throat diameter advantage only plays out with fast aperture lenses with large rear elements. The 50mm f/1.8 S lens is only ranked 38th among lenses in DxOMark scores, so it was not much of an advantage for that lens. It is obviously no Otus (which ranked 2nd). Perhaps the upcoming 58mm f/0.95 S lens will be something special.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on April 27, 2019, 11:49:52 am
.... The 50mm f/1.8 S lens is only ranked 38th among lenses in DxOMark scores, so it was not much of an advantage for that lens. It is obviously no Otus (which ranked 2nd). Perhaps the upcoming 58mm f/0.95 S lens will be something special.
Place 38 of ALL lenses and in a lot of ways more useful than the Otus.
It costs 1/6 of the price of an Otus...it weighs less than half...
It is a completely different animal.
It is weather protected unlike the Otus; it has AF unlike the Otus; It is made in a way focus breathing is low- for video.
Its image quality is very good and on par with the best 50mm lenses for FF like the Sigma 50mm


Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 27, 2019, 11:51:50 am
Place 38 of ALL lenses and in a lot of ways more useful than the Otus.
It costs 1/6 of the price of an Otus...it weighs less than half...
It is a completely different animal.
It is weather protected unlike the Otus; it has AF unlike the Otus; It is made in a way focus breathing is low- for video.
Its image quality is very good and on par with the best 50mm lenses for FF like the Sigma 50mm
What does any of that have to do with the new dawn in optics announced with a larger throat diameter?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on April 27, 2019, 12:56:59 pm
I think the larger throat diameter advantage only plays out with fast aperture lenses with large rear elements...
I can partly agree with your first part... ;)
The S bajonet /short flange gives also new design opportunities for wide angle lenses as the mentioned 14-30 f4 , a lens small, lightweight with good quality optics.




Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 27, 2019, 08:46:53 pm
I think the larger throat diameter advantage only plays out with fast aperture lenses with large rear elements. The 50mm f/1.8 S lens is only ranked 38th among lenses in DxOMark scores, so it was not much of an advantage for that lens. It is obviously no Otus (which ranked 2nd). Perhaps the upcoming 58mm f/0.95 S lens will be something special.

Sorry, but that is one smart comment if I have ever read one... and yes I am being ironic.

As already advised, read the list, the 50mm f1.8 is totally outstanding in absolute quality and its price to performance ratio is unheard of.

So if anything, this fully supports the claims made by Nikon about the additional design flexibility afforded by the new mount.

I have started to use the 14-30 f4 and my first impression is very positive but Iíll have to review more images to form a full opinion. Anyone expecting such a compact and affordable design to be perfect at all settling is not being realistic. To me it comes awfully close to being the ideal travel ultrawide and nobody else is even trying to compete with this form factor.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: hogloff on April 28, 2019, 08:25:35 am
Sorry, but that is one smart comment if I have ever read one... and yes I am being ironic.

As already advised, read the list, the 50mm f1.8 is totally outstanding in absolute quality and its price to performance ratio is unheard of.

So if anything, this fully supports the claims made by Nikon about the additional design flexibility afforded by the new mount.

I have started to use the 14-30 f4 and my first impression is very positive but Iíll have to review more images to form a full opinion. Anyone expecting such a compact and affordable design to be perfect at all settling is not being realistic. To me it comes awfully close to being the ideal travel ultrawide and nobody else is even trying to compete with this form factor.

Cheers,
Bernard

But if the Nikon mount provides such an advantage in lens design...why the heavy software correction on the 14-30 zoom?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 28, 2019, 10:14:25 am
But if the Nikon mount provides such an advantage in lens design...why the heavy software correction on the 14-30 zoom?

Because providing an important advantage isnít synonym to making a compact, cheap and imperfection free lens possible?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 28, 2019, 12:02:42 pm
Because providing an important advantage isn’t synonym to making a compact, cheap and imperfection free lens possible.
The Nikon 14-30mm f/4 S lens costs $1300, so while compact, it is not cheap.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 28, 2019, 05:23:37 pm
What does any of that have to do with the new dawn in optics announced with a larger throat diameter?

Do you loose sleep over those emails promising you untold wealth or a larger penis?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 28, 2019, 05:37:33 pm
Do you loose sleep over those emails promising you untold wealth or a larger penis?
No, which is why I am taken in by Nikon's large throat diameter marketing. Of course fan boys think these new S lenses are the second coming.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 28, 2019, 05:42:53 pm
No, which is why I am taken in by Nikon's large throat diameter marketing. Of course fan boys think these new S lenses are the second coming.

How did you find them?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 28, 2019, 05:55:15 pm
How did you find them?
People referring to them of LuLa.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 28, 2019, 05:58:11 pm
No, which is why I am taken in by Nikon's large throat diameter marketing. Of course fan boys think these new S lenses are the second coming.

Fine... if the mount has nothing to do with it, then only the superior lens technology of Nikon can explain the measured performance and price perfo/ratio of lenses such as the 50mm f1.8 S.

Does that work better for you?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: jtmiller on April 28, 2019, 06:39:08 pm
As a retired systems engineer who owns none of the new Z cameras or lenses:

A lens designer has to trade off a lot of variables to minimize quite a few distortions as well as achieve some additional desirable results like minimal breathing, minimal flare, etc.

If a solution is found that allows one of those distortion minimizations to be delegated to software with acceptable outcome and as a result improve the results in the remainder, what is the complaint?

The system of hardware, optics and software produce a digital result, not an analog film one. There is no perfect choice, only tradeoffs.

I guess I don't see the issue.

BWDIK

jim
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: hogloff on April 28, 2019, 08:17:02 pm
As a retired systems engineer who owns none of the new Z cameras or lenses:

A lens designer has to trade off a lot of variables to minimize quite a few distortions as well as achieve some additional desirable results like minimal breathing, minimal flare, etc.

If a solution is found that allows one of those distortion minimizations to be delegated to software with acceptable outcome and as a result improve the results in the remainder, what is the complaint?

The system of hardware, optics and software produce a digital result, not an analog film one. There is no perfect choice, only tradeoffs.

I guess I don't see the issue.

BWDIK

jim

I don't see the issue with using software to cleanup the optics...but it was touted here and many other places how this larger mount will allow much better lenses ( optics ) than other mounts. I'm not seeing the optics being any better...just average with software cleanup...sort of like the phone cameras.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on April 28, 2019, 10:14:35 pm
From the examples I saw the software was correcting the distortion but in the process it was stretching the corners and make the resolution worse, in some examples the starting point wasnít that bad but after correction there was a significant deterioration. In other examples it just went from bad to worse.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on April 29, 2019, 07:57:01 am
i completely agree - auto distortion is a bad thing. At all times it should be able to turn it off.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 29, 2019, 08:47:50 am
Fine... if the mount has nothing to do with it, then only the superior lens technology of Nikon can explain the measured performance and price perfo/ratio of lenses such as the 50mm f1.8 S. Does that work better for you?
It certainly makes more sense since Nikon has other DxOMark 44 lenses in the smaller F-mount. The 50mm like the 85mm are the simpliest to design with a wide aperture and so, as expected, are less expensive than the others. Let's see how the other Z mount lenses fare at DxO before jumping to conclusions as to the cause for their good performance.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 29, 2019, 11:27:05 am
As a retired systems engineer who owns none of the new Z cameras or lenses:

A lens designer has to trade off a lot of variables to minimize quite a few distortions as well as achieve some additional desirable results like minimal breathing, minimal flare, etc.

If a solution is found that allows one of those distortion minimizations to be delegated to software with acceptable outcome and as a result improve the results in the remainder, what is the complaint?

The system of hardware, optics and software produce a digital result, not an analog film one. There is no perfect choice, only tradeoffs.

I guess I don't see the issue.
Fixing lens aberrations in software does seem a little like a "I'll fix it in post" attitude toward lens design. But everyone is doing it so I guess it is a practice here to stay. It worked for the Hubble.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 29, 2019, 12:02:10 pm
Fixing lens aberrations in software does seem a little like a "I'll fix it in post" attitude toward lens design. But everyone is doing it so I guess it is a practice here to stay. It worked for the Hubble.

It also worked for my 28mm Hasselblad H series lens which was superb.

I really couldn't give a rats arse how manufacturers achieve exemplary performance as long as they do.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on April 29, 2019, 12:45:58 pm
It also worked for my 28mm Hasselblad H series lens which was superb.

I really couldn't give a rats arse how manufacturers achieve exemplary performance as long as they do.

The problem here is that the "advertised exemplary performance" is struggling to show up. Is it an OK performance? Probably, but falls a little short than what we were led to expect.
The 24-70 F4 S seems close enough to get a pass, the 24-70 F2.8 S seems to meet the expectations. The 14-30? Less so based on the initial reviews although it might still be a good compromise if you don't want heavier lenses. As I stated in my previous post, the bad part for Nikon is that Sony has more options that are similar at least quality wise and will have the upper hand on number of options for the wide end for at least another year; not to mention the third party lenses which are nowhere to be seen in Nikon, partially by their own making.

If I would make the choice now probably I would have preferred that Nikon went with a 16-30/35 F4 now and saved the 14 mm for the new F2.8. Still quite wide and easier to meet the standard of the 24-70 F4 S within the size/weight limits. The F 2.8 version will have significantly more leeway on the weight expectations, probably 10-15% less than the current F version will be good enough if it's sharper which shouldn't be that hard to do considering the newer wide zooms already are.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 29, 2019, 01:17:40 pm
I really couldn't give a rats arse how manufacturers achieve exemplary performance as long as they do.
Is software lens correction equal across all RAW converters?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 29, 2019, 02:24:16 pm
My experience of digital systems has been limited to Hasselblad H and Leica M. I'm nobody's fanboy and will only ever pass judgement on equipment I've used and as a result and perhaps unsurprisingly have always been hardest on those very same manufacturers. Prior to testing the Z7 I'd not used a Nikon for some 30 years.

So far my experience with Z lenses has been limited to the 50mm 1.8 S. It's probably worth noting that I'm not in the market for zoom lenses. The 50 on the Z7 is simply the sharpest lens I've ever used, even sharper than any of my Leica M series lenses and the files when combined with the Z7 the most detailed. The bokeh at f/1.8 can be a little harsh but by f/2 there is considerable improvement. In an ideal world I'd like to have the bokeh and character of my Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar ZM on my Leica M series bodies and the detail and resolution of the 50mm f/1.8 S on the Nikon Z7, but it's never going to happen.

I've bought into Nikon Z for one reason and one reason only, namely eyesight issues. I'm increasingly struggling with rangefinder focusing and sadly it's only going to get worse. I'm patient and will take great care in the selection of additional lenses for use on the Nikon. In the meantime I'll be testing one or two of my Leica M fit lenses on the Z, taking advantage of the ease of focus thanks to the wonderful EVF and hopefully adding the character of those wonderful M lenses.

I'm looking forward to testing the Nikon 85mm and 20mm f/1.8 S lenses.

I should add that I'm finding the Z7 body a joy to work with.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on April 29, 2019, 02:54:14 pm
...
I should add that I'm finding the Z7 body a joy to work with.

What i like about the Z7 ergonomics is that is can be operated with one hand doing almost everything- your other hand on the lens.
(the d850 and older bodies needs both hands)
Problem can be if you are left-handed.  :(
These camera's are all made to be used right- right hand and right eye.
My left eye is best... it is well possible but clearly not the ideal way.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 29, 2019, 03:21:39 pm
The problem here is that the "advertised exemplary performance" is struggling to show up. Is it an OK performance? Probably, but falls a little short than what we were led to expect.
The 24-70 F4 S seems close enough to get a pass, the 24-70 F2.8 S seems to meet the expectations. The 14-30? Less so based on the initial reviews although it might still be a good compromise if you don't want heavier lenses. As I stated in my previous post, the bad part for Nikon is that Sony has more options that are similar at least quality wise and will have the upper hand on number of options for the wide end for at least another year; not to mention the third party lenses which are nowhere to be seen in Nikon, partially by their own making.

If I would make the choice now probably I would have preferred that Nikon went with a 16-30/35 F4 now and saved the 14 mm for the new F2.8. Still quite wide and easier to meet the standard of the 24-70 F4 S within the size/weight limits. The F 2.8 version will have significantly more leeway on the weight expectations, probably 10-15% less than the current F version will be good enough if it's sharper which shouldn't be that hard to do considering the newer wide zooms already are.

One option would be to use the 14-30 f4 btwn 16mm and 30mm, where most negative reviews appear to agree it performs well?

Personally, Iíll have to review in details next week, but my initial on screen checks give me the feeling that stopped down to f8, the 14-30 at 14mm is probably better than the 14-24 f2.8... which isnít that bad to start with.

Zoom lenses are always somehow compromises, compact ones even more so. The name of the game is to find the part of the shooting enveloppe that meets one expectations all things taken into account.

I personnally was never able to take the 14-24mm f2.8 with on famille outings due to weight and bulk but I have the 14-30 f4 with this week. That alone is game changing for me.

Now, testers I respect a lot such as Jim Kasson sees no difference at 14mm btw the universally seen as amazingly good Sony 12-24mm f4 and the Nikon 14-30 f4... go figure.

https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-14-30-4-vs-sony-12-24-4/

Not that awful for a lens that is 300 US$ cheaper without discount, is 3cm (more than an inch) shorter and 80 gr lighter while offering what I personnally find to be a more useful focal range.

I am starting to see a pattern where Z lenses get a bad press from some web sources, only to find later that they are in fact excellent.

Btw the 24-70mm f2.8 is shockingly good.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on April 29, 2019, 05:08:11 pm
One option would be to use the 14-30 f4 btwn 16mm and 30mm, where most negative reviews appear to agree it performs well?
...

Cheers,
Bernard

After I wrote that I was thinking that would be one way to work with it, after all it's about the same size/weight as the Sony 16-35 F4, and use the widest range only when you have no choice or when corners don't matter that much.


...

https://blog.kasson.com/nikon-z6-7/nikon-14-30-4-vs-sony-12-24-4/

Not that awful for a lens that is 300 US$ cheaper without discount, is 3cm (more than an inch) shorter and 80 gr lighter while offering what I personnally find to be a more useful focal range.

...

Cheers,
Bernard

Yes, unless you have something that starts at 24mm and are not bothered by changing the lenses in which case 12-24 is more useful. Now I do appreciate some overlap, particularly when I'm on the move and have only one body. For example during a hike I had a Fuji body with the 10-24 and 18-55 and I liked having that overlap; even if the 10-24 is not at its best after 20-21mm the convenience was more valuable as I was in a bigger group and it was a longish hike, not much time to mess with lenses. Best way would be 2 bodies but you have to willing to carry the extra weight. The other reason why I like the overlap is that if one of the zooms fails you can partially cover its range with the other zoom.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Rob C on April 29, 2019, 05:25:35 pm
My experience of digital systems has been limited to Hasselblad H and Leica M. I'm nobody's fanboy and will only ever pass judgement on equipment I've used and as a result and perhaps unsurprisingly have always been hardest on those very same manufacturers. Prior to testing the Z7 I'd not used a Nikon for some 30 years.

So far my experience with Z lenses has been limited to the 50mm 1.8 S. It's probably worth noting that I'm not in the market for zoom lenses. The 50 on the Z7 is simply the sharpest lens I've ever used, even sharper than any of my Leica M series lenses and the files when combined with the Z7 the most detailed. The bokeh at f/1.8 can be a little harsh but by f/2 there is considerable improvement. In an ideal world I'd like to have the bokeh and character of my Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 Sonnar ZM on my Leica M series bodies and the detail and resolution of the 50mm f/1.8 S on the Nikon Z7, but it's never going to happen.

I've bought into Nikon Z for one reason and one reason only, namely eyesight issues. I'm increasingly struggling with rangefinder focusing and sadly it's only going to get worse. I'm patient and will take great care in the selection of additional lenses for use on the Nikon. In the meantime I'll be testing one or two of my Leica M fit lenses on the Z, taking advantage of the ease of focus thanks to the wonderful EVF and hopefully adding the character of those wonderful M lenses.

I'm looking forward to testing the Nikon 85mm and 20mm f/1.8 S lenses.

I should add that I'm finding the Z7 body a joy to work with.


Congratulations, Keith!

I hope you get a lot of good use out of the thing. Just one question: you have a clip-on EVF for your Leicas - has that not been good enough to compensate for your eye problems?

So what was the 'decisive moment' that swung the decision to purchase?

Rob
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on April 29, 2019, 05:29:01 pm
Btw, from the examples that I saw only the extreme corners are affected, something like the outer 5-10% on each side, so less than 4% of the total image surface. The problem is that the cutoff if quite abrupt.
I don't have experience with the 14-24 F2.8 to know if this performance is better or not, but there are people out there convinced the 14-30 is better.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on April 29, 2019, 05:41:05 pm
I don't have experience with the 14-24 F2.8 to know if this performance is better or not, but there are people out there convinced the 14-30 is better.
A lot of people are convinced of a lot of things. Best wait for objective testing before arriving at conclusions. Unless you just can't wait.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 29, 2019, 05:47:35 pm
A lot of people are convinced of a lot of things. Best wait for objective testing before arriving at conclusions. Unless you just can't wait.

The only objective testing worth a light for me is mine.

;-)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 29, 2019, 05:48:32 pm

Congratulations, Keith!

I hope you get a lot of good use out of the thing. Just one question: you have a clip-on EVF for your Leicas - has that not been good enough to compensate for your eye problems?

So what was the 'decisive moment' that swung the decision to purchase?

Rob

Thanks, Rob, I'm off to bed but will reply in the morning.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on April 29, 2019, 07:25:09 pm
....
I don't have experience with the 14-24 F2.8 to know if this performance is better or not, but there are people out there convinced the 14-30 is better.
I think it is Nikon's duty to make it better than the 16 year old 14-24mm lens made in the 12MP time.
it is an F4 lens and costs about the same...
If not i would leave Nikon being a Nikon-employee or a costumer.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on April 29, 2019, 08:44:01 pm
A lot of people are convinced of a lot of things. Best wait for objective testing before arriving at conclusions. Unless you just can't wait.

Some had pictures to back up their claims.
I can wait, if I need an extreme wide I can just use the Fuji with the 10-24 or with the FTZ adapter, either the Samyang 14 F2.8 (which I already did for some night shots but there are people having issues with the interaction between that lens and the FTZ adapter) or the 18-35 which probably won't be the best for 46 MP but still get at least 24MP worth. Thing is, waiting won't fix any issues with the 14-30, only maybe the expectations.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 30, 2019, 12:52:18 am
I think it is Nikon's duty to make it better than the 16 year old 14-24mm lens made in the 12MP time.
it is an F4 lens and costs about the same...
If not i would leave Nikon being a Nikon-employee or a costumer.

If I judge by the performance of the 24-70mm f2.8 S compared to the 24-70mm f2.8 VR, I believe that the 14-24 f2.8 S will be in a different class compared to the F mount version. Those are comparable designs.

With the 14-30 f4 S, the priority was size. And that is obviously a huge design constraint.

So it is in no way obvious that it should be better than the 14-24mm f2.8 that launched the whole size no object lens design trend back in 2011 (and that was designed with 24mp in mind, not 12).

 But I believe that it is overall much better.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Dan Wells on April 30, 2019, 03:14:20 am
I have one hand, and I agree with Kers that the Z7 is a nice one-handed body - Fujis work well, too, while Sony and Canon can rarely resist putting something critical on the left shoulder of the camera. It's just a nice body to use in general. The lens designs are refreshingly small and light for the combination of performance and sensor size. Nikon has chosen to sacrifice maximum aperture and accept electronic distortion correction in return for some small, light and high-performing lenses. It's an interesting trade, not for everyone, but a good one for my particular use.

I like to do landscapes well out in the backcountry, and am always looking for "how much image quality can I haul for how little weight". These compact Nikkors with very good to excellent performance coupled with the Z7 body revolutionize what I can get out there. The body and lenses are all very small and light for the level of performance they offer. Anything lighter won't perform as well, although lighter options exist - and anything else with no-compromise 2019 performance is going to be heavier.

The D850, 14-24 and most recent 24-70 are (roughly speaking), a kilogram each. The 24-70Z and 14-30Z are half a kilogram each, and the Z7 is only a bit over that - half the weight for the same or better IQ (losing a stop but picking up an excellent in-body image stabilizer) is pretty compelling.

Outside of Nikon, a comparable Sony FE system will be about 250 grams heavier and lose some of the weather sealing (which is why I never bought one) - but it'll pick up a little bit of wide angle and quite a bit of telephoto in compensation. The A7rIII is about 20 grams lighter than the Z7, but the Sony 12-24 is about 80 grams heavier than the Nikon 14-30 and the Sony 24-105 is nearly 200 grams heavier than the Nikon 24-70 (if you substitute the Sony "Zeiss" 24-70 for the 24-105, you can get the total weight to line up pretty much exactly, but at a significant image quality cost).

Neither Canon nor Panasonic gets as light as the Nikon, and neither one has a native mirrorless wide-angle yet. The heavy Panasonic bodies will always make the whole system much heavier (unless they change their philosophy and release a compact full-frame body) - and the initial Panasonic lenses are also big and heavy, although that could change at any time - the next lens out the door could be tiny. Nobody knows how heavy the Canon high resolution body will be, or how it'll perform. The announced 15-35mm is a f2.8 lens, which will probably be much heavier.

The highest quality Fuji APS-C lenses in the same focal length range plus the X-H1, the only stabilized body in the Fuji line,  are actually a little heavier than the Nikon system (the X-H1 body is the same or a bit heavier if you count that the Nikon is carrying more shots worth of battery, the 10-24 f4 is lighter, but the 16-55 f2.8 is heavier). If you're willing to go down to an X-T2 or X-T3 (no image stabilization) and the variable aperture 18-55, which is a very good lens, but not like the Nikkors or the Fuji 16-55, you can save a few hundred grams (~1200 instead of ~1600)

Oddly, pro-grade Micro 4/3 (7-14 Pro, 12-40 Pro, E-M1 mkII) is barely lighter than the Z7 system. If you make different choices (ultralight consumer zooms and an EM5 series body), Micro 4/3 can get very light (you can get to around 800 grams with an E-M5 II, a 9-18 f4-5.6 and a 12-60 f3.5-6.3, all of which are also tiny) - but it isn't going to be making 40x60" prints. If you're willing to sacrifice some wide angle, a top-end APS-C compact with a zoom like the G1x mk III is also very light.

Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on April 30, 2019, 07:38:04 am
Thanks, Rob, I'm off to bed but will reply in the morning.
Hello Keith; Probably you are overwhelmed by the manual of the z7; but it is worth reading because you can make the camera your own.
What i find very important and maybe you too, is the option (A7) to take the AF off the release-button. So it does not AF everytime before you take a photo.
Instead you only use the AF button for AF- in this way they can act independent of each other...  (This in combination with AF-C)
etc
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Rob C on April 30, 2019, 07:48:01 am
Hello Keith; Probably you are overwhelmed by the manual of the z7; but it is worth reading because you can make the camera your own.
What i find very important and maybe you too, is the option (A7) to take the AF off the release-button. So it does not AF everytime before you take a photo.
Instead you only use the AF button for AF- in this way they can act independent of each other...  (This in combination with AF-C)
etc


One of the reasons some migrate from rangefinder camera systems is because they now need the added value of autofocus.

I got there before Keith gave up to reality - being much older than is he - and I only wish all my other lenses had af but only two do, and I have no commercial imperative makes me want to swap and spend. Though not ideal, the little focus indication light works, but distracts me. But it hardly makes much diffence as I've turned into a mainly two-lens guy most of the time. Chicken/eggs again?

Rob
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 30, 2019, 09:05:39 am
Hello Keith; Probably you are overwhelmed by the manual of the z7; but it is worth reading because you can make the camera your own.
What i find very important and maybe you too, is the option (A7) to take the AF off the release-button. So it does not AF everytime before you take a photo.
Instead you only use the AF button for AF- in this way they can act independent of each other...  (This in combination with AF-C)
etc

Thanks Pieter.

This is the way I had my Hasselblad H system set up, with the release independent of the AF.

I also downloaded the Thom Hogan Guide which has been a godsend.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on April 30, 2019, 09:25:36 am

Congratulations, Keith!

I hope you get a lot of good use out of the thing. Just one question: you have a clip-on EVF for your Leicas - has that not been good enough to compensate for your eye problems?

So what was the 'decisive moment' that swung the decision to purchase?

Rob

Hi Rob, well, if there was one 'decisive moment' it was on our return from India this year and the realisation that I'd gone from missing the occasional focus to missing far too many. The problem with macular degeneration - and thankfully mine is seemingly slow to develop - is that the area of loss of sight is slap bang in the middle of the eye which coincides nicely with the part of the eye used for rangefinder focussing. I took the Z7 for a walk yesterday, made a hundred or so shots and happily all were in perfect focus.

I suffer from the concept of possibly using my Leica M lenses in combination with the super EVF on the Z7 but as V keeps pointing out I'd still be relying on my eyesight to focus rather than pressing a button and letting the camera do the rest: clever girl that.

As far as the EVF on the Leica M goes, it's toy grade, particularly in comparison to the Nikon and often serves to confuse rather than aid.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Rob C on April 30, 2019, 11:04:19 am
Hi Rob, well, if there was one 'decisive moment' it was on our return from India this year and the realisation that I'd gone from missing the occasional focus to missing far too many. The problem with macular degeneration - and thankfully mine is seemingly slow to develop - is that the area of loss of sight is slap bang in the middle of the eye which coincides nicely with the part of the eye used for rangefinder focussing. I took the Z7 for a walk yesterday, made a hundred or so shots and happily all were in perfect focus.

I suffer from the concept of possibly using my Leica M lenses in combination with the super EVF on the Z7 but as V keeps pointing out I'd still be relying on my eyesight to focus rather than pressing a button and letting the camera do the rest: clever girl that.

As far as the EVF on the Leica M goes, it's toy grade, particularly in comparison to the Nikon and often serves to confuse rather than aid.


Then that's two verboten topics you have to share with her: non-af lenses and Cavemen.

I realised today that the cataracts have helpd me evade doing much dusting - they help to make dust vanish, which can be useful.

:-(
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Manoli on May 01, 2019, 02:41:26 am
I suffer from the concept of possibly  my Leica M lenses in combination ...

Youíre not alone.

Trawled the Z7 and Leica M10 forums on FB yesterday, running a quick and cursory look over the images posted, on the basis rhat whatever Ďbadí could be done to an online photo, Facebook would surely be amongst the top offenders.

Attached below are 3 shots - 2 taken with a Leica 50 Lux the other with a Nikon 50 1.8/s
Guess which is which ...


** deleted - possible copyright infringement **
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: D Fuller on May 02, 2019, 06:25:02 pm
I've bought into Nikon Z for one reason and one reason only, namely eyesight issues. I'm increasingly struggling with rangefinder focusing and sadly it's only going to get worse. I'm patient and will take great care in the selection of additional lenses for use on the Nikon. In the meantime I'll be testing one or two of my Leica M fit lenses on the Z, taking advantage of the ease of focus thanks to the wonderful EVF and hopefully adding the character of those wonderful M lenses.

I'm looking forward to testing the Nikon 85mm and 20mm f/1.8 S lenses.

I should add that I'm finding the Z7 body a joy to work with.

if you end up needing AF with your leica lenses, Techart is making an adapter for that: https://nikonrumors.com/2019/01/18/this-is-the-upcoming-techart-autofocus-lens-adapter-for-nikon-z-mount.aspx/?fbclid=IwAR0rUO1KF0c7kzCIT-acs4H85zH-Znj2T8khsKSQvhDfVvPbSITyM6n0ZZ8

I don't know much about it, but reviews on the E Sony cameras have been generally favorable.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on May 03, 2019, 02:52:15 am
if you end up needing AF with your leica lenses, Techart is making an adapter for that: https://nikonrumors.com/2019/01/18/this-is-the-upcoming-techart-autofocus-lens-adapter-for-nikon-z-mount.aspx/?fbclid=IwAR0rUO1KF0c7kzCIT-acs4H85zH-Znj2T8khsKSQvhDfVvPbSITyM6n0ZZ8

I don't know much about it, but reviews on the E Sony cameras have been generally favorable.

Many thanks, it is certainly a consideration.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 03, 2019, 03:49:06 am
Is that adapter now available btw?

It was announced months ago but can it now be bought?

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: D Fuller on May 03, 2019, 07:52:50 am
Is that adapter now available btw?

It was announced months ago but can it now be bought?

Cheers,
Bernard

I donít believe it is for sale yet. Video of it in action suggests that prototypes are in testing. From there itís anyoneís guess when itís released.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Dan Wells on May 04, 2019, 12:25:13 am
Trying to add AF to non-AF lenses with what is effectively a variable extension tube seems tricky. If all the elements move to focus, then the tube is doing the same thing the lens' own helicoid would do. If, however, it's an internal-focusing lens that moves one group of elements in relation to another (or worse yet, a lens that has a primary focusing group plus a floating element or compensating group that moves a different distance, possibly in a different direction), the variable extension tube is focusing the lens in a simplified manner that it wasn't designed for.

Also, wouldn't it be hard to build an adapter that gave a meaningful amount of focusing travel for a longer lens, yet moved with enough precision for a shorter one?

Leica M lenses ameliorate these problems to some extent - they're relatively moderate focal lengths, and aren't many of them "move the whole lens" focusers? At least a few have floating elements, but the majority don't.

Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 06, 2019, 06:22:38 pm
I have started to process the many images I shot last week with the Z7 and 14-30 f4/24-70 f2.8 S... and I like what I am seeing.

In short, the quality of the 24-70 f2.8 S is simply ming boggling. I havenít found a single weakness yet. It is super sharp from near to infinity, has no visible CA, has a great soft bokeh, has better flare resistance than any prime I have used, super pure colors, fast focus, great build and feel,... just wow!

As expected, the 14-30 f4 is an amazing travel lens but it has a couple of weaknesses, in particular when shot at close range in the extreme corners. Sharpness remain decent but there is a very heavy light fall off the the extreme corners that is hard to correct. This is a lot less problematic when focusing farther. Keeping that in mind, I love the lens overall.

I am wondering how good the top S primes are going to be... starting with the Noct and 50mm f1.2.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: D Fuller on May 06, 2019, 10:04:30 pm
I have started to process the many images I shot last week with the Z7 and 14-30 f4/24-70 f2.8 S... and I like what I am seeing.

In short, the quality of the 24-70 f2.8 S is simply ming boggling. I havenít found a single weakness yet. It is super sharp from near to infinity, has no visible CA, has a great soft bokeh, has better flare resistance than any prime I have used, super pure colors, fast focus, great build and feel,... just wow!

As expected, the 14-30 f4 is an amazing travel lens but it has a couple of weaknesses, in particular when shot at close range in the extreme corners. Sharpness remain decent but there is a very heavy light fall off the the extreme corners that is hard to correct. This is a lot less problematic when focusing farther. Keeping that in mind, I love the lens overall.

I am wondering how good the top S primes are going to be... starting with the Noct and 50mm f1.2.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bernard, does the 24-70 2.8 focus as close as the f/4?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 07, 2019, 02:25:00 am
Bernard, does the 24-70 2.8 focus as close as the f/4?

0.3m for the f4, 0.38m for the f2.8. So not quite as close, but I haven't found this to be limiting.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Manoli on May 07, 2019, 02:44:10 am
I have started to process the many images I shot last week ...

Bernard,
Any feedback on how Eye-AF works with the the updated firmware?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 07, 2019, 03:25:47 am
Bernard,
Any feedback on how Eye-AF works with the the updated firmware?

It will only be available on May 16th as far as I know.

The AF of the 24-70 f2.8 S is fast when tracking, the only issue is the identification of where it should focus. I am pretty sure that with the eye AF it's going to be top notch...

But we will know for sure after May 16th.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Rob C on May 07, 2019, 07:07:46 am
Many thanks, it is certainly a consideration.


Keith, how does the shutter racket compare on your new Nikon with the Leica?

Another, broader question: many of the olde rangefinder stars appear to have focussed using the depth of field scales and the relative safety of f8; did that work out as practical for you? If it did/does, it makes the use of such cameras relatively simple as you wouldn't have to use the small focussing aids. Not that I am about to invest, but it might yet happen because the 50s M3 exposure has never quite left me alone...

About the only legacy of my last employer, other than his belief in his F, which I took up as soon as I could.

Rob
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Manoli on May 07, 2019, 08:38:28 am
But we will know for sure after May 16th.

Thanks Bernard, any feed back after the 16th appreciated!
Best,
M
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on May 07, 2019, 09:47:44 am

Keith, how does the shutter racket compare on your new Nikon with the Leica?

Another, broader question: many of the olde rangefinder stars appear to have focussed using the depth of field scales and the relative safety of f8; did that work out as practical for you? If it did/does, it makes the use of such cameras relatively simple as you wouldn't have to use the small focussing aids. Not that I am about to invest, but it might yet happen because the 50s M3 exposure has never quite left me alone...

About the only legacy of my last employer, other than his belief in his F, which I took up as soon as I could.

Rob

Rob, they are different sounds but much the same in terms of volume, but of course no mirror slapping about in either. The Nikon Z7 body also has a silent shooting mode using an electronic front-curtain shutter, but this can cause problems with moving subjects due to the rolling shutter.

I've used the DOF scales on the Leica lenses, typically when shooting interiors on a tripod when of course a small aperture is usually the order of the day. I also find my required minimum and maximum focus distances depending on the subject and then set the lens accordingly, plus a stop or two. For other work, for much of time, I'm shooting wide or near wide open when DOF scales are of no use.

I expected to be somewhat overwhelmed by the complexities of the Nikon, but the more I use the it the more I understand and appreciate the possibilities and capabilities. I'm taking things slowly and will take my time building a system to suit my needs.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: SrMi on May 07, 2019, 12:22:06 pm
Rob, they are different sounds but much the same in terms of volume, but of course no mirror slapping about in either. The Nikon Z7 body also has a silent shooting mode using an electronic front-curtain shutter, but this can cause problems with moving subjects due to the rolling shutter.
<snip>

You are confusing electronic front-curtain shutter (EFCS) with electronic shutter (silent shooting). EFCS is useful to reduce shutter shock of the mechanical shutter (I have it always on) and silent shotting uses electronic shutter instead of the mechanical shutter. Because of slow readout speeds, silent shooting can cause problems with moving subjects.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on May 07, 2019, 01:21:14 pm
You are confusing electronic front-curtain shutter (EFCS) with electronic shutter (silent shooting). EFCS is useful to reduce shutter shock of the mechanical shutter (I have it always on) and silent shotting uses electronic shutter instead of the mechanical shutter. Because of slow readout speeds, silent shooting can cause problems with moving subjects.


Thanks, I think I am.

I don't have EFCS permanently enabled because I often shoot above the 1/2000 second limit. Think wide open in bright light.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on May 07, 2019, 01:27:31 pm

Thanks, I think I am.

I don't have EFCS permanently enabled because I often shoot above the 1/2000 second limit. Think wide open in bright light.

Since there is no mirror-slab anymore i am sure not enabling EFCS will do no harm at all...
Even on my d850 the problem is almost gone.( but on the d810 there indeed was a problem)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: SrMi on May 07, 2019, 02:15:18 pm
Since there is no mirror-slab anymore i am sure not enabling EFCS will do no harm at all...
Even on my d850 the problem is almost gone.( but on the d810 there indeed was a problem)

Mirror slap and "shutter shock" are not related.

As measured and observed on Sonys and Nikon Zs, shooting without EFCS at lower shutter speeds has typically a negative impact on image quality.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on May 07, 2019, 03:34:04 pm
I have EFCS enabled on one of the 'User' Settings' - amongst other tweaks to those settings - when shooting my typically poorly lit abandoned interiors.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: John Camp on May 07, 2019, 07:39:44 pm
Thanks Pieter.

This is the way I had my Hasselblad H system set up, with the release independent of the AF.

I also downloaded the Thom Hogan Guide which has been a godsend.

Based on your comment, I went to Thom's site intending to download the guide for the Z6. I've gotten a couple of his guides, years ago, and they were good. But this one...it says it's 1010 pages long. That's a thousand and ten pages. Can that be right?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: D Fuller on May 07, 2019, 09:38:06 pm
Based on your comment, I went to Thom's site intending to download the guide for the Z6. I've gotten a couple of his guides, years ago, and they were good. But this one...it says it's 1010 pages long. That's a thousand and ten pages. Can that be right?

Yes, thatís right. Thereís a lot to this camera. The guide is well-organized and well worth the $30.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on May 08, 2019, 03:32:36 am
Based on your comment, I went to Thom's site intending to download the guide for the Z6. I've gotten a couple of his guides, years ago, and they were good. But this one...it says it's 1010 pages long. That's a thousand and ten pages. Can that be right?

Yes.

It is a well informed and very helpful guide and also has a lot of background material on the Z6 & Z7. Particularly useful for this newbie to the Nikon full frame digital systems. The search facility was a godsend.

Happy reading.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 09, 2019, 06:23:42 am
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47809910521_92e509bc92_h.jpg)
Z7 + 24-70 f2.8 S

Insane flare and light spill resistance.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: 32BT on May 09, 2019, 07:08:57 am
Z7 + 24-70 f2.8 S

Insane flare and light spill resistance.

Cheers,
Bernard

Except for the green dot on the leaves and the greenish tinge lh side. Of course, considering the picture, something is to be expected, and then, yes, it is well controlled.

Having said that: would you please be careful with that camerasensor, Bernard. Otherwise I am forced to confiscate your camera for callous abuse. It would be entirely for your own well being, and I would obviously be careful enough to keep te camera in good condition while it is under my care by using it regularly...
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on May 09, 2019, 07:31:56 am
Except for the green dot on the leaves and the greenish tinge lh side. Of course, considering the picture, something is to be expected, and then, yes, it is well controlled.

I am looking at the image at 100% and I see green all over the leaves... which may be related to fact that leaves are green? ;)

Having said that: would you please be careful with that camerasensor, Bernard. Otherwise I am forced to confiscate your camera for callous abuse. It would be entirely for your own well being, and I would obviously be careful enough to keep te camera in good condition while it is under my care by using it regularly...

I am really touched by how considerate you are.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on July 13, 2019, 11:17:21 pm
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/3377004454/hands-on-with-new-sigma-35mm-f1-2-45mm-f2-8-and-14-24mm-lenses

Another reason Nikon should have opened the mount for other companies, similar to Sony.
I'll be going for a hiking trip soon and I decided to take the Z7. The 24-70 F4 is a good fit although something in the 24-105/120 would be much better but so far nothing similar is on the roadmap.  Adapting the Nikon 24-120 F4 doesn't look too appealing.
Moving to wide I guess the 14-30 is OK for landscape but I might have a shot at nightscapes so I want a brighter lens; missing in action too so you have to go for adapted, and I'll get the Samyang 14 2.8 with the FTZ adapter. When you look at the weight of the 14+FTZ is actually lighter than the Samyang 14 for the Z mount, so you feel good about it. Until you peak in Sony's yard and see that the 16-35 2.8 GM is actually lighter and the new Sigma 14-24 2.8 is just a touch heavier. I think the new 14-24 2.8 S from Nikon has a lot on its shoulders. If it doesn't perform and/or it's too heavy than it goes any justification for the advantage of the wider Z-mount.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 14, 2019, 05:48:39 pm
I wouldnít be worried.

It took Canon 8 years to release a competitor to the Nikon 14-24mm f2.8, Nikon is on top of the game for ultra wide.

The 14-24mm f2.8 S will be the best ultra wide zoom lens ever designed just like the 24-70mm f2.8 S is the best pro zoom ever designed.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on July 31, 2019, 02:32:01 am
https://m.dpreview.com/news/2661937334/nikon-s-nikkor-z-85mm-f1-8-s-to-ship-in-september

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on July 31, 2019, 05:01:32 am
https://m.dpreview.com/news/2661937334/nikon-s-nikkor-z-85mm-f1-8-s-to-ship-in-september

Cheers,
Bernard

Thanks Bernard, that's great news!
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 06, 2019, 03:34:46 am
https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0263156990/nikon-z-35mm-f1-8-s-sample-gallery?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

The same lens that was described by DPreview TV as having one of the worst looks ever...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on August 06, 2019, 04:24:17 am
https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0263156990/nikon-z-35mm-f1-8-s-sample-gallery?utm_source=self-desktop&utm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

The same lens that was described by DPreview TV as having one of the worst looks ever...

Cheers,
Bernard

Hi Bernard, I've no idea of the history here, did DPreview have a bad copy or was their testing flawed perhaps?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on August 06, 2019, 04:33:57 am
Hi Bernard, I've no idea of the history here, did DPreview have a bad copy or was their testing flawed perhaps?

No idea.

At the time they mentioned the 50mm f1.8, then tested it with amazing results and said they made a mistake and that their negative comments should have been about the 35mm.

Now they show these brilliant samples without further reference to their previous mess up...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on August 06, 2019, 04:48:16 am
No idea.

At the time they mentioned the 50mm f1.8, then tested it with amazing results and said they made a mistake and that their negative comments should have been about the 35mm.

Now they show these brilliant samples without further reference to their previous mess up...

Cheers,
Bernard

Thanks, Bernard. It seems as though DPreview have no idea either!

;-)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on August 06, 2019, 08:30:16 am
If you look through comments they vary from great to poor, so there's that. I don't see the "awful" rendering but I don't think is that spectacular either, more like a solid lens with decent rendering; it could be just the gloomy weather though.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on August 06, 2019, 09:12:02 am
If you look through comments they vary from great to poor, so there's that. I don't see the "awful" rendering but I don't think is that spectacular either, more like a solid lens with decent rendering; it could be just the gloomy weather though.

What i noticed with the 35mm 1.8 is that at infinity the corners did not look good. The F4 zoom did better at f4.... on shorter distance there was nothing to complain about.
Maybe it was only  my sample..?
It has very good contrast and sharpness and the bokeh is fine, coatings are good and flare resistant.
What i think will be a strong point in the S-series lenses is that there is little focus breathing throughout the range and in combination with the proclaimed RAW-video it could be a winner for video.
It would be a good idea to update the firmware of the lenses/ camera in a way that focus by wire has less shortcomings.
For one stabilize the focus at a chosen point... add a feature to make manual focus lineair so a focus pull is possible.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on August 06, 2019, 11:13:03 am
So far I'm very pleased with the Nikon Z 35mm f/1.8 S and I'm comparing it with another rather good lens, the Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH FLE!
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on August 06, 2019, 12:51:10 pm
So far I'm very pleased with the Nikon Z 35mm f/1.8 S and I'm comparing it with another rather good lens, the Leica 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH FLE!

Good to hear! I will admit that I was taken back by the DPR TV review and put it on hold. Now I have yet the get the 50 also but I think that I will give in to it soon.

I'm still conflicted if I should get the 14-30 F4 or wait the 14-24 F2.8, it will depend a lot on how big/heavy the 14-24 will be. If it's not bigger/heavier than the Sony 16-35 F2.8 then I would prefer it. I guess nobody here knows anything regarding this matter.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: KLaban on August 06, 2019, 01:38:38 pm
Good to hear! I will admit that I was taken back by the DPR TV review and put it on hold. Now I have yet the get the 50 also but I think that I will give in to it soon.

I'm still conflicted if I should get the 14-30 F4 or wait the 14-24 F2.8, it will depend a lot on how big/heavy the 14-24 will be. If it's not bigger/heavier than the Sony 16-35 F2.8 then I would prefer it. I guess nobody here knows anything regarding this matter.

So far I have the 35 and 50 lenses and the 85 on order.

I'm not a zoom kind of guy and will patiently wait - foot tapping as I type - for the 20 to be released next year.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on August 06, 2019, 02:50:00 pm
The 20 was supposed to be released this year but they switched positions with the 24; alas I already have the F version and can't justify another 24.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on September 03, 2019, 10:14:34 am
Just heard (Nikon source) that the 70-200 f2.8 S will come about october.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on September 03, 2019, 12:41:50 pm
Just curious, but is it that hard for those that have the very well received 70-200 F2.8E to just leave a FTZ adapter on it and use it as such if they have this burning need for it?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: John Camp on September 03, 2019, 01:16:26 pm
Just curious, but is it that hard for those that have the very well received 70-200 F2.8E to just leave a FTZ adapter on it and use it as such if they have this burning need for it?

No, it's not. But, the f2.8 is a beast. I did a lot of work with it for several years, several years ago, and even when I was younger, it was a load to carry. I'm hoping that the upcoming f2.8 is more compact than the F mount f2.8, but I'm beginning to get the feeling that it won't be. There have been several mock-up photos of the f2.8 S inside a glass case, and in comparing the size of it to the known sizes of other lenses in the case, it also looks fairly beastly. One thing I don't totally understand is why the insistence on f2.8? With a 70-200 you're not typically looking for bokeh, which you're not going to get much of with a 2.8 anyway. So why not go to a compact f4, and shoot at 400 instead of 200, or 800 instead of 400? Those higher ISOs in modern cameras are of excellent quality, and you're not usually looking for ultimate quality in a zoom anyway, at least not to the point where one stop will make a difference. But compactness is important to many people, I believe, and not just us old guys. We're not shooting film anymore, and Nikon should get used to that. What we really could use, IMHO, is a high-quality compact f4. A huge heavy f**king lens sticking out of a light, compact body is not a great idea, to say the least.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Peter McLennan on September 03, 2019, 02:54:56 pm
I've owned both the 2.8 and 4.0 versions of the Nikkor f-mount 70-200.  The f4.0 version is by far preferable.  The 2.8 was noticeably soft wide open, the 4.0 was as sharp wide open as it was anywhere else.  Which is very effing sharp.  Superb lens, far smaller and lighter. 

Too bad its motor hates the new autofocus system on the Z cameras.  It chatters and seeks loudly, rendering it useless for video and difficult for stills.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: SrMi on September 04, 2019, 12:38:49 am
I've owned both the 2.8 and 4.0 versions of the Nikkor f-mount 70-200.  The f4.0 version is by far preferable.  The 2.8 was noticeably soft wide open, the 4.0 was as sharp wide open as it was anywhere else.  Which is very effing sharp.  Superb lens, far smaller and lighter. 

Too bad it motor hates the new autofocus system on the Z cameras.  It chatters and seeks loudly, rendering it useless for video and difficult for stills.

Which version of the 70-200 f/2.8 did you have? The latest Nikon f-mount 70-200 f/2.8 is considered to be one of the best zoom lenses available, much better than the f/4 version.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 04, 2019, 12:46:41 am
Which version of the 70-200 f/2.8 did you have? The latest Nikon f-mount 70-200 f/2.8 is considered to be one of the best zoom lenses available, much better than the f/4 version.

Indeed, the 70-200 f2.8 E FL is in Otus territory wide open on all focal lengths.

It is significantly better than the Canon 70-200mm f2.8 III released a year later, itself considered as one of the best L lenses, and also than the recent Sony 70-200mm f2.8 G Master.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 04, 2019, 12:47:21 am
Just heard (Nikon source) that the 70-200 f2.8 S will come about october.

That would be very good news.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on September 04, 2019, 04:51:47 am
The upcoming 70-200 f2.8S ; Now i wonder what kind of a lens it will be.
If it is as good as the FL type it certainly will cost about the same one might expect.
We will see soon.

Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 04, 2019, 08:18:41 am
The upcoming 70-200 f2.8S ; Now i wonder what kind of a lens it will be.
If it is as good as the FL type it certainly will cost about the same one might expect.
We will see soon.

It can only be better I guess.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on September 04, 2019, 09:20:17 am
In the mean time Nikon drives on two roads.
Costumers have to choose between DSLR D6 and Mirrorless.
It becomes clear with the introduction of a new 120-300mm for F-bajonet that Nikon says:
Sports shooters / animal shooters : please remain in the DSLR camp. After all no long telelenses are in the Z roadmap.
All other shooters:  You may choose...

In the meantime a new 24mm f1.8 S is introduced at about 1000€.
I am sure it will be good. but i do not like:
a the lensprofile i cannot set to off in Lightroom ( a LR problem i know)
b the fact it will not hold focus when turned off or when the battery has run out.


Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Peter McLennan on September 04, 2019, 11:34:42 am
Which version of the 70-200 f/2.8 did you have?

Good point.  It was an older version.  One of the first with VR.  Can't remember the precise model name.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 05, 2019, 01:30:44 am
In the mean time Nikon drives on two roads.
Costumers have to choose between DSLR D6 and Mirrorless.
It becomes clear with the introduction of a new 120-300mm for F-bajonet that Nikon says:
Sports shooters / animal shooters : please remain in the DSLR camp. After all no long telelenses are in the Z roadmap.

Call it my guess if you will, but I don't think it is the message nor the situation. But Nikon's marketing being as disastrous as ever, we have to read btwn the lines...

There is going to be no practical different in size between a F mount 120-300mm f2.8 and a Z mount version.

So the only difference is the spec of the mount and the compatibility of the AF system with the body right? And since my educated guess is that this 120-300mm f2.8 is designed with both F mount and Z mount in mind I would definitely not look at this lens as an F mount lens. It's an hybrid design fully usable at maximum performance level on both mounts.

And I am fully confident Nikon can achieve this technically because my 10 years old 200mm f2.0 G is already 90% as good AF wise on the Z6 as it was on my D850.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on September 05, 2019, 01:59:05 am
But the Z6 doesnít focus as well as the A73 and the A73 isnít nearly as good as the A9. I know this because I have played with the Z7 and I own an A9.

But this is beside the point actually. What is concerning is what appears to be to my mind Nikon having a little Kodak moment. I suppose you could put it down to marketing but a part of marketing is listening to the market. Iím not convinced Nikon is so good at that. For Nikon to make money they need the advanced amateur market. Itís way bigger than the handful of pro sports shooters most of whom seem to be using Canon anyway. Do you think at this stage that Nikon will lure Canon shooters currently using The 1DX to switch to a Nikon DSLR system? I think the Canon guys are waiting for a Canon pro mirrorless body. Those that have switched from Canon or are planning to switch are far more likely to go Sony, God help them.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 05, 2019, 03:17:10 am
But the Z6 doesnít focus as well as the A73 and the A73 isnít nearly as good as the A9. I know this because I have played with the Z7 and I own an A9.

I find the Z6 with firmware 2.01 to focus significantly better than the Z7 with firmware 2.01 and to be in a totally different league that the Z7 with firmware 1.0. The gap being IMHO larger than we used to see between 2 generations of camera in the DSLR days.

But this is beside the point actually. What is concerning is what appears to be to my mind Nikon having a little Kodak moment. I suppose you could put it down to marketing but a part of marketing is listening to the market. Iím not convinced Nikon is so good at that. For Nikon to make money they need the advanced amateur market. Itís way bigger than the handful of pro sports shooters most of whom seem to be using Canon anyway. Do you think at this stage that Nikon will lure Canon shooters currently using The 1DX to switch to a Nikon DSLR system? I think the Canon guys are waiting for a Canon pro mirrorless body. Those that have switched from Canon or are planning to switch are far more likely to go Sony, God help them.

No, the D6 is not aimed at converting Canon shooters. It is meant at a few things as I have already stated:
- keep the pro Nikon shooters happy with a significant update to the D5 one year before the Japan Olympics
- develop the technologies, AF in particular, that will be used on all the prosumer Nikon DSLRs in the 3-4 coming years (including the replacement of the D850)
- end the DSLR era with a remarkable product that they will continue to produce for many years, like the F6 that still sells today in enough numbers that Nikon can produce it without losing money

The D6 is also not a sign that Nikon doesn't understand that mirrorless is the next big thing. It is a camera they had to release for their existing user base.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: armand on September 05, 2019, 01:46:25 pm
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/09/05/new-2020-2012-nikon-nikkor-z-s-line-lens-roadmap-leaked.aspx/

If this is real it looks better than I expected. The focal lengths and zooms are most of the things I would want, granted within certain weight/quality numbers and not outrageously expensive.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 05, 2019, 05:11:19 pm
Yes, just about perfect.

We are getting pretty much exactly what I had predicted. A 35mm f1.2 instead of a 28mm f1.2 but close enough.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: gkroeger on September 05, 2019, 05:25:11 pm
I was somewhat pleased and somewhat baffled by the roadmap.  Pleased that everything is an S-line lens.  Baffled by why we are getting a 28-70 f/2.8-f/3.5 when we already have a 24-70 f/4 and f/2.8. If the variable aperture version was non-S, I would understand better as a low cost kit lens. Most baffling is the idea that we need a 65 f/1.8 before we get a 70-200 f/4?  Can a 28-280 f/2.8-f/5.6 really live up to the S-line hype?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on September 05, 2019, 05:32:31 pm
No pro telelenses for the Z till 2022...or later...
The 65 f1.8 is an odd one, maybe a macrolens?
I do not think the order within the year is of any significance...as it was not before...we are still waiting for this .95 lens.
The 24mm lens i will have in october for some testshots. Nikon has made many 24mm lenses and i have owned many of them.
This one should be the best of the bunch, i hope.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 05, 2019, 08:04:40 pm
No pro telelenses for the Z till 2022...or later...
The 65 f1.8 is an odd one, maybe a macrolens?
I do not think the order within the year is of any significance...as it was not before...we are still waiting for this .95 lens.

My guesses:
- the 65mm f1.8 is indeed a macro lens, it wouldn't make sense otherwise
- the 120-300 f2.8 SR announced yesterday was designed from scratch to AF optimally on both F and Z mout bodies. This is the only way such a strategic release would make sense and Nikon does make sense 99% of the time for such matters.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: chez on September 05, 2019, 08:29:18 pm
My guesses:
- the 65mm f1.8 is indeed a macro lens, it wouldn't make sense otherwise
- the 120-300 f2.8 SR announced yesterday was designed from scratch to AF optimally on both F and Z mout bodies. This is the only way such a strategic release would make sense and Nikon does make sense 99% of the time for such matters.

Cheers,
Bernard

Don't DSLR and mirrorless cameras AF fundamentally different. That is why mirrorless designed lenses AF faster than DSLR designed lenses that are just ported to mirrorless. That is what the results were on the Sony system where Sigma lenses redesigned specifically for mirrorless AF faster than that same lens that was designed for DSLR.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 05, 2019, 09:09:18 pm
Don't DSLR and mirrorless cameras AF fundamentally different. That is why mirrorless designed lenses AF faster than DSLR designed lenses that are just ported to mirrorless. That is what the results were on the Sony system where Sigma lenses redesigned specifically for mirrorless AF faster than that same lens that was designed for DSLR.

That was the theory prior to FTS introduction I guess.

But when I see the level of performance I am getting today with the Z6 + 200mm f2.0 or 105mm f1.4 I have doubts. It seems to be a generic belief that is highly impacted by the technology being deployed. Like to old belief that CMOS was more noisy than CCD... ;)

And Nikon has gotten it right even with pre-Z legacy F mount lenses, I am sure they could design F mount lenses that focus even better through the FTZ. And I guess this is what SR is about.

But I could be wrong of course and will have no issue to admit I was if I am.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: jeremyrh on September 06, 2019, 03:02:41 am
https://nikonrumors.com/2019/09/05/new-2020-2012-nikon-nikkor-z-s-line-lens-roadmap-leaked.aspx/

If this is real it looks better than I expected. The focal lengths and zooms are most of the things I would want, granted within certain weight/quality numbers and not outrageously expensive.

Call me a cynic but that looks like fantasy. We are still waiting for any sign of a 70-200 and the 85 is announced but not shipping. To deliver that roadmap Nikon would really have to up their game next year.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on September 06, 2019, 04:59:08 am
Call me a cynic but that looks like fantasy. We are still waiting for any sign of a 70-200 and the 85 is announced but not shipping. To deliver that roadmap Nikon would really have to up their game next year.
today the 85mm is shipping
https://nikonrumors.com/
the 70-200 is one month delayed and will come in october.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on September 06, 2019, 05:16:34 am
My guesses:
- the 120-300 f2.8 SR announced yesterday was designed from scratch to AF optimally on both F and Z mout bodies. This is the only way such a strategic release would make sense and Nikon does make sense 99% of the time for such matters.
Yes i am sure you are right but i think that Nikon owners of a long pro tele simply will have to use the converter so it will work on either a D6 or a Z.
Usually these people have invested in D5 bodies and Nikon wants to sell them a D6.
Probably the latest long telelenses have been optimized for both Z and DSLR and might have an option to be converted to the Z-mount later on.
or maybe this 120-300 is the first.
(The D6 has to be very good to be able to compete against the Sony 9 markII; then what will Canon release?)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 06, 2019, 05:21:15 am
Got my 85mm f1.8 today btw.

Itís a nice black.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on September 06, 2019, 05:32:24 am
i just took a look at the impressive lensdesign of the 24mmf1.8 S

The elements near the camera have a very particular shape. Especially no2
Maybe it is just the drawing?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: jeremyrh on September 06, 2019, 08:21:56 am
Got my 85mm f1.8 today btw.

Itís a nice black.

Cheers,
Bernard

Hmm. I have a portrait session next Tuesday - I'll be happy if I get the lens in time for that!!
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: D Fuller on September 07, 2019, 02:42:39 pm
No pro telelenses for the Z till 2022...or later...
The 65 f1.8 is an odd one, maybe a macrolens?


A 65 mm f/1.8 would be a welcome prime in a cinematographerís kit.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: faberryman on September 07, 2019, 02:49:17 pm
A 65 mm f/1.8 would be a welcome prime in a cinematographerís kit.
What is special about 65mm from a cinematographer's perspective?
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: D Fuller on September 07, 2019, 02:59:29 pm
What is special about 65mm from a cinematographer's perspective?

Simply that there is too much difference between a 50 and an 85.

Some, like Cooke, solve this with 75 in the lineup instead of an 85. Ziess, on the other hand, has long had a 65 available.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 09, 2019, 05:23:50 pm
https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-z-85mm-f1-8-s-review/

The new 85mm f1.8 appears to be as good as the Otus 85mm f1.4 at half the weight. A bit worse at infinity but better bokeh and coma. Similar color correction.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: kers on September 09, 2019, 06:54:31 pm
https://www.cameralabs.com/nikon-z-85mm-f1-8-s-review/

The new 85mm f1.8 appears to be as good as the Otus 85mm f1.4 at half the weight. A bit worse at infinity but better bokeh and coma. Similar color correction.

Cheers,
Bernard
Half the weight but f1.8 and not f1.4...
and extreme corner unsharp until f8... i think that is really bad for a (new nikonS) 85mm.
(the Zeiss Mivus 85mm has something similar)
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: RobertJ on September 09, 2019, 08:29:16 pm
Looks like both Canon and Nikon will have the f/1.2 "holy trinity": 35 1.2, 50 1.2, 85 1.2.  Nice...
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 09, 2019, 08:30:45 pm
Half the weight but f1.8 and not f1.4...
and extreme corner unsharp until f8... i think that is really bad for a (new nikonS) 85mm.
(the Zeiss Mivus 85mm has something similar)

At infinity, which is clearly not relevant for portrait work.

The choice today is either using aspherical elements and get ugly off highlights bokeh or not use them which results in a smaller enveloppe of usage that can optimized (in this case some compromise at infinity).

I far prefer the choice made by Nikon not to use aspherical elements in this lens. Zeiss is indeed making similar design decisions. Besides, it's far from poor at infinity at f8, which is the aperture I would use for landscape work anyway.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 09, 2019, 08:34:48 pm
Looks like both Canon and Nikon will have the f/1.2 "holy trinity": 35 1.2, 50 1.2, 85 1.2.  Nice...

Indeed.

But probably with slightly different design decisions considering what we know about the Nikon 50mm f1.2 S. It seems that they have imposed on themselves less design constraints in terms of bulk, meaning that we can expect better performance at the cost of more weight.

Nikon is clearly going with the following logic, although their marketing dpt has omitted to explain this...:
- very good and light - f1.8 range
- no compromise but bulky - f1.2 range

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 17, 2019, 07:07:15 am
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48748558756_fed08a43c3_h.jpg)
Nikon Z7 + 85mm f1.8 S

Such an amazing piece of glass...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Use of Nikon Z6 and Z7 on a safari
Post by: Robert Katz on September 17, 2019, 11:17:02 am
Article by Thom Hogan where he used a Z6 and Z7 on a safari.
They seemed to work quite well on the trip. Amazing images.
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/2019-mirrorless-camera/july-september-2019-mirrorl/a-nikon-mirrorless-safari.html
Robert Katz
Title: Re: Use of Nikon Z6 and Z7 on a safari
Post by: D Fuller on September 17, 2019, 07:26:27 pm
The most arresting quote from this article for me was this one:

Quote from: Thom Hogan
The Sony mirrorless would be better. Nnyaa (in Setswana). It would only be go sa tshwane (different). I probably would have picked the Sony 100-400mm lens instead of the Nikkor 500mm, giving up some reach for flexibility. In my experience I'd probably also have many more "almost perfect focus" in capturing motion with the Sony instead of the "dead on focus" shots like I got with the Nikon.
Title: Re: Use of Nikon Z6 and Z7 on a safari
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 17, 2019, 07:38:00 pm
The most arresting quote from this article for me was this one:

Yes. Most online discussions about AF involve:
1. people with only very limited experience of systems others than their own
2. an idealized view of Sony AF performance vs a worst case scenario for Nikon mirrorless

The reality is that both systems have + and -.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Use of Nikon Z6 and Z7 on a safari
Post by: D Fuller on September 17, 2019, 08:48:07 pm
Yes. Most online discussions about AF involve:
1. people with only very limited experience of systems others than their own
2. an idealized view of Sony F performance vs a worst case scenario for Nikon mirrorless

The reality is that both systems have + and -.

Cheers,
Bernard

So true.
Title: Re: Z mount native lenses
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 21, 2019, 11:09:06 pm
In a fascinating turn of fate, I have just found out that the 24mm f1.8 S was not announced by Nikon in Japan:
- it is not listed on the Nikon image jp web site (https://www.nikon-image.com/products/nikkor/zmount/), it is not available for pre-order anywhere in Japan

On the other hand it is listed on the Nikonusa site: https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/camera-lenses/mirrorless-lenses/index.page

I thought that Nikon marketing couldn't get any worse than they already were, but it looks like they have more potential to disappoint... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard