Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: adias on December 13, 2018, 10:46:16 pm
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It used to be that people complained that their prints were darker than their screen renderings. That was usually due to over-bright displays.
Now... I may be wrong, but I am finding that prints are actually lighter than they used to be. Twice using different printers I find that my prints out of Lr 8.0 and 8.1 are slightly lighter than my screen. Nothing changed on my hardware side.
I can easily compensate that by using a small (-5) brightness adjustment in Lr's Print module.
Comments?
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well, something changed. maybe the lights you used to view the prints, the display itself, the video card, different computer, maybe something else in your environment.
I think a better solution is to adjust the display brightness until it matches again. Whatever caused the change, you adjust for it. It’s not uncommon to have to make minor adjustments to the display over time.
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I said i might be wrong, but I see nothing changed on my side, other than a new OS (Mojave) and Lr 8.x.
Anyone running Mojave and Lr 8.1 see anything different re print brightness?
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If you read Alain Briot's last Part 7 of his article you will see he adds +10 in the print brightness.
With my Epson 3880 I add +20. Your screen may be right. Just your printer needs this tweak.
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If you read Alain Briot's last Part 7 of his article you will see he adds +10 in the print brightness.
With my Epson 3880 I add +20. Your screen may be right. Just your printer needs this tweak.
This is not good colour management practice. What Wayne suggested is the correct approach.
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If you read Alain Briot's last Part 7 of his article you will see he adds +10 in the print brightness.
What? There's no reason to futz with that hack and lots of reasons not to (for one, any other application will print the same RGB values differently). Anyone serious about color management and consistency would never use this silly slider and instead, calibrate the display properly.
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What? There's no reason to futz with that hack and lots of reasons not to (for one, any other application will print the same RGB values differently). Anyone serious about color management and consistency would never use this silly slider and instead, calibrate the display properly.
That makes three of us....
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I said i might be wrong, but I see nothing changed on my side, other than a new OS (Mojave) and Lr 8.x.
Anyone running Mojave and Lr 8.1 see anything different re print brightness?
I use Mojave and now LR 8.1. Note that Mojave installs a setting to automatically adjust the display brightness according to the ambient light. That could be the source of your issue. That feature needs to be disabled in preferences.
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Note that Mojave installs a setting to automatically adjust the display brightness according to the ambient light.
How does it know the ambient light level?
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That makes three of us....
Add me to that... that's why I made my somewhat flabbergasted comment upon reading Alain's article. Now we have Saiguy chipping in with "sharing that sound advice" here in this thread.
LULA "appears" to be going backwards. Maybe next we could have Gary Fong do an article on sRGB as the preferred and only proper color working space! ;D
Rand
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How does it know the ambient light level?
Using the monitor’s front camera, I guess. I have the 27 inch iMac retina and that has the camera/sensor.
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Add me to that... that's why I made my somewhat flabbergasted comment upon reading Alain's article. Now we have Saiguy chipping in with "sharing that sound advice" here in this thread.
LULA "appears" to be going backwards. Maybe next we could have Gary Fong do an article on sRGB as the preferred and only proper color working space! ;D
Rand
Ken Rockwell too? 8)
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Ken Rockwell too? 8)
Andrew,
Sure, why not? ;D We've not had a good donnybrook in a while. You get ready to do battle with the forces of evil! I'll make some popcorn and settle in to watch!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HSk8MnJ/0/65d63dd4/Th/i-HSk8MnJ-Th.jpg)
Rand
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Using the monitor’s front camera, I guess. I have the 27 inch iMac retina and that has the camera/sensor.
so perhaps only affects iMacs and MacPro’s?
of note, there has been some discussion on Mojave affecting the printed output in a negative way. I myself had this issue, and the only fix for me was to uninstall all Epson drivers and reinstall them. I don’t think it affects most, and why it has this affect on a few I’m not sure, but I know in my case it was in issue. However, I saw some color problems more than density.
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so perhaps only affects iMacs and MacPro’s?
of note, there has been some discussion on Mojave affecting the printed output in a negative way. I myself had this issue, and the only fix for me was to uninstall all Epson drivers and reinstall them. I don’t think it affects most, and why it has this affect on a few I’m not sure, but I know in my case it was in issue. However, I saw some color problems more than density.
Wayne, when you re-installed the Epson driver, was it to a more recent version? I ask to see whether the problem could have been simply the driver not being in sync with the latest OSX version. If it's not that, it's disturbing, as it raises once again the issue of colour management inconsistency with OSX upgrading that has happened in the past. And if so, one wonders what greater amount of quality control and coordination with application developers and printer manufacturers would improve reliability. The way it is supposed to work is that OSX SDKs go to developers and manufacturers a good while before release so that all may do the needful to render their products fully consistent. Again one wonders to what extent this happens effectively enough.
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The answer is obvious. :)
"obvious" to which question - I asked more than one and they lead to different diagnoses!
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The way it is supposed to work is that OSX SDKs go to developers and manufacturers a good while before release so that all may do the needful to render their products fully consistent. Again one wonders to what extent this happens effectively enough.
The answer is obvious. :)
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The answer is obvious. :)
George, I'm not sure how obvious - sometimes things happen that are unique to some users' systems for reasons that take a lot of diagnostics, and sometimes they are generic. Hard to tell without much more evidence.
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George, I'm not sure how obvious - sometimes things happen that are unique to some users' systems for reasons that take a lot of diagnostics, and sometimes they are generic. Hard to tell without much more evidence.
When the problem is not generic I can accept it. But when it is generic...
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I've seen no changes with Mojave 10.14.2 and the latest Lr with regards to viewing or printing.
The last time something like this happened I found out that a friend sat at my Mac and decided he was going to mess with the brightness of the display. After that episode I changed the keyboard settings so that F1 and F2 did NOT adjust brightness. That issue has never come up again.
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Adding Brightness values to the Print module is a band-aid, and yes, adding +10 is an indication that the system pipeline is way off.
I repeat, in my case, nothing changed other than the OS (Mojave) and Lr8.x. Same MBP Retina display and LG 5k. And if anything, my observation is the opposite of the typical reports - people complain their prints are dark; in my case they are slightly lighter. I suspect that some brightness level changed in OS X Mojave and/or Lr 8.x. But as i said, it is a tiny change, so I can correct by increasing very slightly my screen brightness.
Lr Print module +10 brightness correction as used by a LuLa Master... Ouch!
Thanks for the comments!
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Ouch indeed.
What I haven't seen is what printer you're using. There certainly is a bug under the 3880 printer driver with Mojave but not as you describe.
Really the best approach is to forget the display for the time being and find out if the two versions actually produce different results by printing ideally color patches and measuring them, producing a deltaE report. Not everyone has such tools so the next best approach is to use a printer reference file like this: http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip
Of course, it's possible the display calibration needs a new adjustment for whatever reason. Far, far better to adjust the backlight intensity the futz with the LR Print adjustment sliders.
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I print on an Epson 7890. Which driver issues do you know in the 3880?
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I print on an Epson 7890. Which driver issues do you know in the 3880?
If the 16 bit check box is on, output is way off wrong.
Edit: the details:
https://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=126897.msg1073567#msg1073567
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Wayne, when you re-installed the Epson driver, was it to a more recent version? I ask to see whether the problem could have been simply the driver not being in sync with the latest OSX version. If it's not that, it's disturbing, as it raises once again the issue of colour management inconsistency with OSX upgrading that has happened in the past. And if so, one wonders what greater amount of quality control and coordination with application developers and printer manufacturers would improve reliability. The way it is supposed to work is that OSX SDKs go to developers and manufacturers a good while before release so that all may do the needful to render their products fully consistent. Again one wonders to what extent this happens effectively enough.
I had already installed the driver updates shortly after Mojave was released but didn’t install Mojave until the 10.14.1 update.
As far as quality control, this doesn’t seem to be a very common problem, so the uniqueness would imply something in my system setup. Not sure how any company can be expected to catch such anomalies.
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Always useful to take note of the "Epson Enema" to use prior to reinstalling a version of the driver.
Delete all instances of Epson printers from System Preferences>Print & Fax.
• Then go to /Library/Printers and toss the whole Epson folder.
• Toss LFP Remote Panel (IF you are using this utility for your printer).
• Then reinstall drivers from Epson and never Apple.
When you go back to Print & Fax to add the printer, on 10.X I had to wait almost a minute before the IP version of the printer showed up, whereas the Bonjour one shows up right away. Then add the IP instance of the printer. This is for printers on a network.
Then re-install LFP Remote Panel if you use it with this printer.
NOTE: IF you have more than one Epson printer, you need to install the driver in the order of their release! Older then newer or you run into issues (eg, install 4800 before you’d install 3880).
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As far as quality control, this doesn’t seem to be a very common problem, so the uniqueness would imply something in my system setup. Not sure how any company can be expected to catch such anomalies.
I agree - there's a limit beyond which they need to rely on user experience for experiencing and reporting unique, arcane issues.